Is there any reason not to go a more human-centric route? It seems like we could maybe capitalize on the tribal synergies, or go more the flyer route as UW does. As it is, the mono-W version seems like a bit of a hodgepodge with no clear consensus on the best cards.
The tokens aren't humans, and cards like what? Thalia's Lieutenant? There aren't enough good human cards to make a deck. Compare the pool of humans to zombies.
Oh and if anybody is interested, I uploaded replays of my odric monument deck from a league.
This deck is really interesting. What cards from HOU go into the deck? I'm not really seeing much, although it's worth noting that this deck can side in Solemnity without any drawback to its own game plan.
You can make a half-decent humans deck, but it wouldn't run Monument. A monument deck needs Bygone Bishop, Selfless Spirit, Monument, and Dusk/Dawn, and by that point, it's no longer a good idea to build it into humans.
3-1 today, Mardu was my only loss, bad draws, but I can't help but feel there's some problems preboard against them. Preboard not a lot of answers to Heart. Dusk isn't great.
Wins over BG energy, R eldrazi, and Temur energy.
I don't know what the new set brings, but in the mono-white deck, I can say there is a distinct lack of decent 2-mana removal, and all the 2-drop besides Selfless Spirit creatures are bland. If there's anything exciting to try from the new set, that's an idea.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I feel like adding 4x Shefet Dunes (and some number of Desert of the True if you were previously running Cycling lands with Aviary Mechanic) is a very low-impact but potentially strong improvement to the deck.
I'm surprised Pacifism isn't standard-legal in a Welcome Deck. If it was, it might help solve the two-mana removal problem. Declaration in Stone might just be the best option.
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You can make a half-decent humans deck, but it wouldn't run Monument. A monument deck needs Bygone Bishop, Selfless Spirit, Monument, and Dusk/Dawn, and by that point, it's no longer a good idea to build it into humans.
3-1 today, Mardu was my only loss, bad draws, but I can't help but feel there's some problems preboard against them. Preboard not a lot of answers to Heart. Dusk isn't great.
Wins over BG energy, R eldrazi, and Temur energy.
I don't know what the new set brings, but in the mono-white deck, I can say there is a distinct lack of decent 2-mana removal, and all the 2-drop besides Selfless Spirit creatures are bland. If there's anything exciting to try from the new set, that's an idea.
I just switched out my Declaration in Stones for Cast Out, and then switched the Cast Outs in my sideboard with Immolating Glare. I've seen enough vehicles and such that the sorcery speed on dec in stone has given me a real bad taste in my mouth.
Immolating Glare is a fine option for the Heart problem. Having received that suggestion, I next feel Blessed Alliance might be even better. Because, the cards it's likely to catch include: Ormendahl, Gideon, Bristling Hydra, Lumbering Falls. All things you can't Glare.
Two cards we'd wish never attacked at all are: Glorybringer and Skysovereign. But there seems to be nothing at 2 that can prevent those swinging.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Immolating Glare is a fine option for the Heart problem. Having received that suggestion, I next feel Blessed Alliance might be even better. Because, the cards it's likely to catch include: Ormendahl, Gideon, Bristling Hydra, Lumbering Falls. All things you can't Glare.
Two cards we'd wish never attacked at all are: Glorybringer and Skysovereign. But there seems to be nothing at 2 that can prevent those swinging.
Well, I was looking at my sideboard and Gideon's Intervention is something that can shut one or the other down.
Last Friday Night Magic event, I had taken Gideon's Intervention for a spin when side-boarding against a Blue-Red control deck. Named Torrential Gearhulk which had shut down my opponent's list long enough to swing for lethal. I was also not too worried in the event of board-wipe coming down as the Monument list rebuilds fairly rapidly.
This weekend, I will be evaluating having one or two Inventors' Fair in the main. Essentially, my experience is that most games will be going your way when Oketra's Monument is in play. When I am unable to have the Monument in the opening hand or unable to draw into it (hard to believe with all the Clue tokens from Thraben Inspector and Bygone Bishop), then chances to pull a win are most decidedly weak. Perhaps too greedy (?), but it feels nice to pack a parachute none-the-less.
MTGO league play in the past 3 days (30 separate events) has been won by 9 monument decks, more than any other archetype. kogamo (Kenji I believe) won with an interesting take using Thalia's Lancers to search up legendary cards, including Monument, Thalia, and assorted angels.
MTGO league play in the past 3 days (30 separate events) has been won by 9 monument decks, more than any other archetype. kogamo (Kenji I believe) won with an interesting take using Thalia's Lancers to search up legendary cards, including Monument, Thalia, and assorted angels.
I've seen that list quite a few times. Lancers is in my own list, but I think if you're gonna play them you need an Odric in the deck somewhere.
The way my games play out, I want to be playing monument on turn three, then lancers or Oketra on turn 4. I tutor up whichever piece is missing from the doublestrike/flying equation and always play Odric last.
So hopefully I have a flier like selfless spirit in play, oketra for doublestrike/indestructible and whatever other random bodies are on the battlefield. It usually throws opponents for a loop and they need instant speed removal for Odric and even that won't stop it if selfless spirit is in play.
The meta on modo is pretty cutthroat. I've noticed a lot of people with maindeck Dissenter's Deliverence and Magma Spray. It's not uncommon to go through a league and be in a mirror 3 times. With seth's New Perspectives video coming out a lot more people are running that deck and mono white has a slim chance against it, as well as a nigh unwinnable matchup against turbofog and the various Approach of the Second Sun decks running sweeper tribal.........
From experience playing and losing against the UW decks, it's probably the best version. I've seen streamers run it and lose because the lands weren't working out for them, but from playing against it they tend to have a lot of damage in the air between selfless/bishop/spell queller/avacyn/gisela. They can chump block your dudes on the ground and swing in with the fliers until you lose, countering your own fliers with Metallic Rebuke and Spell Queller while also not having terrible matchups against the combo decks thanks to maindeck Metallic Rebuke and Spell Queller countering the important bits.
I 3-0'd FNM tonight, taking down BG energy, RW aggro and Metalwork Colossus decks. I ran the UW build and it seemed pretty good. Essence Scattering a Glorybringer is a solid play, and there were a ton of other plays that also seemed solid.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Has anyone tested Pious Evangel in this deck ?
He seems like a really good lifegain option for this deck and flipping him into an upgraded Zulaport Cutthroat should be pretty easy.
Fairgrounds Warden can be a good option as well as removal on a creature.
In the U/W version Aven Wind Guide is really good for making all your Monument tokens fly to close out games. Trial of Solidarity can pump all the creatures for an aplha strike.
That was my thought when I proposed the idea of going a human route: having the explosiveness of the human decks with the monument allowing us to go wider. It was just a thought and probably not great, but would definitely be RW and would not run Dusk // Dawn.
So I see this has been moved to proven. I would say the best performing version is UW. For reference, here is a standard list from Jonathan Rosum's second-place finish at SCG Cincinnati Open:
As far as innovation, I saw a few different takes. Some opted to leave out Dusk // Dawn and added things like Angel of Invention, Archangel Avacyn, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar. Other than that, there were some differences in the sideboards. The stock UW list seemed to do the best.
So, what match ups have we found troublesome? I played the last FNM with this and went 3-0, with my toughest match up being the mirror.
Why is Metallic Rebuke in the maindeck ?
The deck doesn't seem particularly heavy on artifacts (mainly clues) so that Negate seems like a better counterspell and Cast Out like the better all-purpose removal here.
With clues and monuments, I did not have any problems casting Metallic Rebuke for anything other than U, though there is some merit to having a less situational counterspell. As for Cast Out, I have been tempted to run it as a catch all answer but did not because of the higher cost. I did run a couple Cast Out in the board.
Is Cloudblazer really that powerful? I'm hoping to complete this build today, but have tested the deck out and just don't see the benefit of Cloudblazer.
I really like the idea of Pious Evangel as a way to finish games, and to have actions to do against control decks.
Has anyone, especially the mono-white players, considered adding Lifecrafter's Bestiary to the deck? I'm not someone who plays this deck, though I do enjoy watching people play it online. I see how great the deck runs with Bygone Bishop in play, and it seems like having another similar effect would make the deck even better. There are plenty of G/W lands, and plenty that ETB untapped, so you wouldn't really have to make a change to the rest of the deck or wreck your mana base.
So you can see. It's monowhite with Lifecrafter's thrown in. I've only just goldfished some hands on my app, but it seems like an improvement (in my limited experience). I can't think of any green cards worth adding to the deck or the sideboard. There are some that could be interesting like Appeal // Authority, but I don't see too much reason to add actual green cards to the 75. Lifecrafter's on the other hand seem like pure gas.
From what I have seen, little Gideon is a viable answer to blue combo decks such as Second Sun or Aetherflux Res decks. Planeswalker removal options outside of BW are very limited in standard at the moment. The card is underplayed due to 4drop Gideon.
Declaration in stone is an all star in mirror matches, but I have seen the card misplayed a lot. The real weakness with the deck is that Bygone Bishop is the draw engine. If an opponent thinks to exile the bishop Asap
The tokens aren't humans, and cards like what? Thalia's Lieutenant? There aren't enough good human cards to make a deck. Compare the pool of humans to zombies.
Oh and if anybody is interested, I uploaded replays of my odric monument deck from a league.
https://youtu.be/CsYFkUdONJs
3-1 today, Mardu was my only loss, bad draws, but I can't help but feel there's some problems preboard against them. Preboard not a lot of answers to Heart. Dusk isn't great.
Wins over BG energy, R eldrazi, and Temur energy.
I don't know what the new set brings, but in the mono-white deck, I can say there is a distinct lack of decent 2-mana removal, and all the 2-drop besides Selfless Spirit creatures are bland. If there's anything exciting to try from the new set, that's an idea.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I'm surprised Pacifism isn't standard-legal in a Welcome Deck. If it was, it might help solve the two-mana removal problem. Declaration in Stone might just be the best option.
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I just switched out my Declaration in Stones for Cast Out, and then switched the Cast Outs in my sideboard with Immolating Glare. I've seen enough vehicles and such that the sorcery speed on dec in stone has given me a real bad taste in my mouth.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/691539#online current list. Sideboard is a bit different now but didn't bother changing it.
4 Anointer Priest
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Bygone Bishop
4 Scion Summoner
4 Eyeless Watcher
1 Oketra the True
2 Angel of Invention
2 Decimator of the Provinces
3 Cryptolith Rite
3 Oketra's Monument
1 Anointed Procession
Land
4 Canopy Vista
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Fortified Village
6 Plains
3 Westvale Abbey
1 Declaration in Stone
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Tireless Tracker
2 Cast Out
2 Dusk // Dawn
2 Archangel Avacyn
In minimal testing, it's done well enough that I can't tell what's wrong with it. Hopefully I can get some reps in this weekend.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Two cards we'd wish never attacked at all are: Glorybringer and Skysovereign. But there seems to be nothing at 2 that can prevent those swinging.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Well, I was looking at my sideboard and Gideon's Intervention is something that can shut one or the other down.
This weekend, I will be evaluating having one or two Inventors' Fair in the main. Essentially, my experience is that most games will be going your way when Oketra's Monument is in play. When I am unable to have the Monument in the opening hand or unable to draw into it (hard to believe with all the Clue tokens from Thraben Inspector and Bygone Bishop), then chances to pull a win are most decidedly weak. Perhaps too greedy (?), but it feels nice to pack a parachute none-the-less.
~
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I've seen that list quite a few times. Lancers is in my own list, but I think if you're gonna play them you need an Odric in the deck somewhere.
The way my games play out, I want to be playing monument on turn three, then lancers or Oketra on turn 4. I tutor up whichever piece is missing from the doublestrike/flying equation and always play Odric last.
So hopefully I have a flier like selfless spirit in play, oketra for doublestrike/indestructible and whatever other random bodies are on the battlefield. It usually throws opponents for a loop and they need instant speed removal for Odric and even that won't stop it if selfless spirit is in play.
The meta on modo is pretty cutthroat. I've noticed a lot of people with maindeck Dissenter's Deliverence and Magma Spray. It's not uncommon to go through a league and be in a mirror 3 times. With seth's New Perspectives video coming out a lot more people are running that deck and mono white has a slim chance against it, as well as a nigh unwinnable matchup against turbofog and the various Approach of the Second Sun decks running sweeper tribal.........
From experience playing and losing against the UW decks, it's probably the best version. I've seen streamers run it and lose because the lands weren't working out for them, but from playing against it they tend to have a lot of damage in the air between selfless/bishop/spell queller/avacyn/gisela. They can chump block your dudes on the ground and swing in with the fliers until you lose, countering your own fliers with Metallic Rebuke and Spell Queller while also not having terrible matchups against the combo decks thanks to maindeck Metallic Rebuke and Spell Queller countering the important bits.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
He seems like a really good lifegain option for this deck and flipping him into an upgraded Zulaport Cutthroat should be pretty easy.
Fairgrounds Warden can be a good option as well as removal on a creature.
In the U/W version Aven Wind Guide is really good for making all your Monument tokens fly to close out games.
Trial of Solidarity can pump all the creatures for an aplha strike.
Trophy Mage seems like a decent option to avoid flooding out on Oketra's Monument.
It can also find some other 3-mana artifacts like: Aethersphere Harvester, Cultivator's Caravan, Filigree Familiar, Pilgrim's Eye
(or Haunted Cloak for a big Westvale Cult Leader) for a possible toolbox.
4 Bygone Bishop
4 Cloudblazer
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Thraben Inspector
Lands (25)
4 Island
9 Plains
1 Irrigated Farmland
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
3 Westvale Abbey
2 Stasis Snare
2 Metallic Rebuke
4 Oketra's Monument
3 Dusk
3 Angel of Sanctions
2 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Stasis Snare
3 Negate
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Fragmentize
As far as innovation, I saw a few different takes. Some opted to leave out Dusk // Dawn and added things like Angel of Invention, Archangel Avacyn, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar. Other than that, there were some differences in the sideboards. The stock UW list seemed to do the best.
So, what match ups have we found troublesome? I played the last FNM with this and went 3-0, with my toughest match up being the mirror.
The deck doesn't seem particularly heavy on artifacts (mainly clues) so that Negate seems like a better counterspell and Cast Out like the better all-purpose removal here.
I really like the idea of Pious Evangel as a way to finish games, and to have actions to do against control decks.
This is what I've thrown together.
4 Anointer Priest
4 Aviary Mechanic
4 Bygone Bishop
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Thraben Inspector
1 Cast Out
2 Stasis Snare
Artifacts 7
3 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
4 Oketra's Monument
Sorceries 2
2 Dusk // Dawn
8 Plains
4 Fortified Village
4 Canopy Vista
4 Scattered Grove
4 Westvale Abbey
So you can see. It's monowhite with Lifecrafter's thrown in. I've only just goldfished some hands on my app, but it seems like an improvement (in my limited experience). I can't think of any green cards worth adding to the deck or the sideboard. There are some that could be interesting like Appeal // Authority, but I don't see too much reason to add actual green cards to the 75. Lifecrafter's on the other hand seem like pure gas.
Declaration in stone is an all star in mirror matches, but I have seen the card misplayed a lot. The real weakness with the deck is that Bygone Bishop is the draw engine. If an opponent thinks to exile the bishop Asap
and ps. UW won me FNM again. This time drawing RW vehicles but beating Mardu, Stockpile and UR Drake Reanimator.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG