I agree, I've been playing UW up until now, but the new tools UR is getting fill it's weak spots very well. UR lists were already running Aether Hub so playing 1-2 Bolas is practically free, at most, needing to add 2 cycle lands which are good anyways. Abrade and Hour of Devastation are both amazing and so is Supreme Will. I expect this to be tier 1, possibly the best deck.
Im currently testing a URb version that actually isn't dependant on counterspells to control the board. In fact I let Nimble Obstructionist replace Disallow. Keyword here is versatility, I chose cards to have options in all situations (even hand disruption elements from black). . Notice the black splash is entirely dependant on Aether Hub and Prophetic Prism.
I mostly playtest this 1.0 version of the deck against Golgari constrictor and so far it has sucess.
Golgari turn 2: land, Longtusk Cub
Izzet turn 2: land
Golgari turn 3: land, Rishkar. Izzet Response - harnessed lightning on Cub
Izzet turn 3: land
Golgari turn 4: land, walking ballista. Izzet counters with Supreme Will. Attack with Rishkar for 3.
Izzet turn 4: land
Golgari turn 5: land, Verdous Gearhulk. Izzet response - cycle Obstructionist to counter ETB trigger. Attack with Rishkar for 3.
Izzet turn 5: land, Hour of Devastation. Rishkar and Gearhulk dies.
From there on it's a walk in the park as Golgari is out of threats on hand.
Why do people keep saying they want to play bolas? I get that he's fun and flavorful, but he's very not-good for this deck. The most viable control list post-hou will most definitely be straight UR without random sorcery-speed 7 drops in off colors that don't win the game on the spot.
In terms of kitchen table style points he's awesome. In terms of standard competitive playability he's bad. You *do not* want to make your mana base less reliable so you can run a 7-drop that will be dead in your hand 9/10 times and forces you to tap out in your own turn to play it, assuming you have 7 mana and one of those mana is black.
Chandra is infinitely better, but even then she just doesn't fit our gameplan so she isn't ran. Style points don't win tournaments and on turn 4 i'd infinitely rather hold up mana to counter a spell or glimmer at eot than I would tap out for chandra.
Also, avoid supreme will. Not nearly as good in practice as it appears to be. Nimble Obstructionist is also not good in standard. If we wanted a flying flashing body, spell queller is way better and hits more stuff, but neither belong in this deck.
On the other hand, I think Hour of Dev is a 3-of mainboard, it's just that good. Much better for our purposes than glorybringer or fumigate. Abrade is 100% a 4-of mainboard. Harness can move to the SB because abrade us just better against the meta. G2 you can swap emm if you know you'll need to deal with lots of things with 4 or more toughness.
I really like Consign//Oblivion, so I threw in an Estuary (although it might end up being a Fetid Pools instead) to help hardcast, although I will be more likely Gearhulking that during my opponents' draw step.
What do you all think of Negate and Essence Scatter numbers, now that we have more good removal and can 'let' more things resolve?
I really like Consign//Oblivion, so I threw in an Estuary (although it might end up being a Fetid Pools instead) to help hardcast, although I will be more likely Gearhulking that during my opponents' draw step.
What do you all think of Negate and Essence Scatter numbers, now that we have more good removal and can 'let' more things resolve?
Consign / Oblivion doesn't strike me as all that great, I think for that same effect I'd much rather just run Unsummon. The aftermath half is ludicrously overcosted and the only time i want to pay 5 mana for a sorcery speed mind rot is when I literally have nothing else to do. Certainly not worth warping your mana base for...
If you like the consign effect, Unsummon is way better for almost all of the relevant targets. If unsummon doesn't catch your fancy, then i'd run Commit / Memory (which I'm testing in mainboard as a 1-2 of because of the great interaction with gearhulk).
As for Negate / Essence Scatter, i'm running 4x Negate and 3x Scatter within my 75. I usually mainboard 2 of each and then the rest are in the sb.
On supreme will: I've tested it and I've hated it even though I was very much on the hype train when it was spoiled. It just feels super clunky at 3 mana. Censor is good because early game it's a 2 mana counterspell and late game its a 1 mana cantrip. Both versions are good and its up to the player to determine when to use which mode.
Supreme Will on the other hand is a 3 mana counterspell, so it's already clunky. Add to that that it's not a hard-counter but rather a mana leak and it's even worse. The draw mode is what I found myself using it for most frequently, but at that point there are several spells I'd prefer for 3 mana to draw with.
The difference between Supreme Will and Censor is entirely in the cost. At 2 mana for a force spike Censor is still decent, and when attached to a 1 mana cantrip it's quite good. Supreme Will doesn't have a cost reducted draw ability, so it's 3 mana both ways. That's the biggest difference. Censor is great at any time because it only costs 1 mana to pitch it for something else late in the game. Supreme Will will always cost 3 mana for an effect that should cost 2, and 3 mana is quite expensive in this format. (Other notable 3 mana spells include Disallow, Gideon of the Trials, Liliana of the Lost Hope, Nissa Voice, etc)
TLDR: Censor is great because the 2 mana version is good-not-great and the 1 mana version is good-not-great. Supreme Will is bad because both versions are overcosted and also good-not-great. 2 or 1 mana is a lot easier to spend and still be able to hold up mana for other stuff than 3 or 3 mana is.
Here's a list I threw together. I haven't played for a long time so I'm a bit rusty at deck-building, and I didn't bother trying to come up with a sideboard yet. I designed this off the same theory behind the older Esper Control deck that was good back in RTR-THE Standard. Counter magic, card draw at instant speed, targeted and mass removal, and some really heavy-hitting win conditions including powerful planeswalker support. For the lands, I skipped both the BFZ duals and SOI duals, because I don't feel like I'm playing enough basics to justify using them. I have a full set of Evolving Wilds but I'm wondering if I should be playing Aether Hubs instead, even though there is no energy theme. I'm pushing the Torrential Gearhulk + Hour of Devastation synergy a bit, maybe too much. We'll see. I worry that the deck may have a problem with a true aggro opponent, as the sweepers cost 5. I guess that a good place to start on the sideboard would be looking at the available 3-mana mini-sweeper spells (Radiant Flames and Sweltering Suns), and depending on the meta consider them for maindeck.
I'll be the first to admit I'm no pro, but glancing through MTG Top 8 for UR Control decklists that have top-8'd events or leagues, less than 1% of them run any planeswalkers. Of the ones that do, the vast majority are a singleton of big-Jace somewhere in the 75, or 1 copy of Jace and 1 copy of Chandra in the SB.
I think the reason for this is pretty simple. PW's simply do not fit with the gameplan against most decks. The meta is too punishing right now to tap out for a sorcery-speed planeswalker that doesn't automatically win the game. Chandra is certainly the best option, but if you +1 her on turn 4 you're essentially paying 4 mana and 1 card off the top to shock your opponent. If you use her -3 to remove a creature then not only is she likely to die the very next turn, but you've also spent 4 mana for what you could accomplish with a Harnessed Lightning and an Aether Hub.
That was the logic pre-HoU. The benefits of running 2x chandra, 1x ob in the main are simply not enough compared to the cons of tapping out to allow them to resolve a gideon or a glorybringer or something else.
If that was the calculus before we were running 3-4 PW Boardwipes in the form of Hour of Devastation, I can only imagine the case has been made even more concrete that PW's and Draw-Go-Control do not mix.
Of course, people are free to experiment and run whatever they would like. But if you're trying to run the most finely tuned/most competitive version of control you can in standard, you're not going to want planeswalkers and you're abso-*******-lutely not gonna want Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh no matter how cool he is.
New card goggles is a thing. It's like beer goggles or nostalgia goggles. Nicol Bolas is the new fancy 7-drop and by far the coolest pw printed in a while, and that makes you want to run him, but he's not good. He's very bad. He's a 7 mana mind rot bad. Do not fall into the new card trap. That's not to say all new cards are bad (abrade and hour of devastation are incredible) but Nicol Bolas is bad in this deck.
-------------------------
As for splashing for B for Grixis control, I just don't think it's worth it. If you're going to splash anything splash white.
The reason for this is the landbase is just wayyy better. **** running 4x evolving wilds, that's horrible. Jeskai has access to Port Town, and Prairie Stream which is way better than adding non-U producing lands or a ton of taplands to make grixis work.
Regardless, before you splash you should ask yourself what your deck gains by adding that splash and what it loses. UR now has the tools to do literally everything URW or URG or UWB has. We have the counters, we have the removal to graveyard, we have the removal to exile, we have the board wipes, we have the artifact hate, we have the card draw, etc. Sure we don't have declaration in stone, but you can do a close approximation of it with Incendiary Flow if you're in a zombies-heavy meta. If you were running dec in stone as removal for stuff flow can't hit, you'd probably be better off just running more counterspells to prevent those threats from resolving in the first place. We don't have fumigate but we have the infinitely better Hour of Devastation. We don't have Transgress the Mind or the other discard effects, but who cares? 2 mana hand disruption is very bad unless you're facing a combo deck where you need to disrupt, and Marvel got banned. The next best combo deck is super fringe, new perspectives, and you just need any old counterspell on turn 6 to stop that. Marvel was a threat because it could come down on turn 4, or come down on turn 6 backed up by a negate or turn 5 backed up by a dispel. Perspectives isn't even close to the same threat and so hand disruption is much less useful. (At 2cmc that is, if they reprint thoughtseize then I will switch to Grixis very quickly.)
Ultimately, the cost of running a 3rd color and subjecting yourself to more variance, more bad draws, more mana screw/color screw vs the benefit of what you gain by adding that color just isn't worth it.
TLDR: Censor is great because the 2 mana version is good-not-great and the 1 mana version is good-not-great. Supreme Will is bad because both versions are overcosted and also good-not-great. 2 or 1 mana is a lot easier to spend and still be able to hold up mana for other stuff than 3 or 3 mana is.
Hard to believe some actually think Censor is a bad card.
If unsummon doesn't catch your fancy, then i'd run Commit / Memory (which I'm testing in mainboard as a 1-2 of because of the great interaction with gearhulk).
I don't understand what you mean. Consign/Oblivion has the same interaction with Gearhulk (getting the aftermath part casted for free), and it hits Planeswalkers, for two cheaper mana. This helps delay faster decks like Constrictor GB energy and zombies where you just might need another quick answer. Plus Ithink Oblivion will be extremely relevant in the mirror matches, which we'll see more of this season.
Hrmm, fair point on Consign / Oblivion. I just feel like by the time you hit the mana to gearhulk it most of your opponents will already have few cards in hand. I guess it is nice to be able to eot Esper Charm them but I don't know what I'd cut for it, and part of why esper charm is good is because you can do that on turn 3 rather than turn 6
I also generally would prefer to use my gearhulks to generate card advantage either by drawing me 2 cards or countering one of their spells, and in general i feel like untargetted discard isn't super strong in standard right now. I can't think of many instances I'd prefer to hulk Oblivion instead of Glimmer, including the mirror.
Entirely fair. I'm really just looking at Consign, with a 1% upside that might come in hand one match per tournament. But I'd rather have an aftermath that I could actually use, where Memory just doesn't seem to ever be playable. I don't think I need to have the UB cycle land in there, but it's been nice having a cycle land late game.
Khaosknight69, I think you're right. No need to add black to this deck. It's funny because the last deck I was playing was UR Dynavolt Tower and now I'm looking at almost playing the same thing.
What is the general opinion on Thing in the Ice? I like the interaction with gearhulk.
Personally I think TITI doesn't get included for the same reason I don't run many pws. If you tap out for it on turn 2 then they get to resolve something turn 3. It's easily removable and on top of all of that it's a very bad topdeck late in the game.
Both good points, thanks. I'll start working on a revised list. For a land base, am I looking at 4x Wandering Fumarole, 4x Spirebluff Canal, 4x Aether Hub, and the rest are basics? That makes it a LOT easier to play untapped lands and not be behind a mana every turn compared with the Grixis list I posted earlier.
EDIT: Here is a new list. With sideboard. What do you think will be the main things to go after in the sideboard? I've tried to prepare for Zombies (Incendiary Flow in addition to the maindecked Magma Sprays), vehicles (extra artifact destruction including 1-of Release the Gremlins which unfortunately is sorcery-speed but I want an option to get tempo advantage should they play multiple vehicles), and shifting the counter magic based on whether they are playing few or many creatures... I'm unsure about ever needing more than 2 Sweltering Suns in the current format. There doesn't seem to be a true aggro deck at the moment. Constrictor decks get bigger than 3 toughness too easily. Maybe it's a solid choice against vehicles since most of the other creatures are fairly small.
It worries me that I only have a total of 8 ways of damaging my opponent, but I guess that is not much different than how it was last time U/x control decks were good. Just gotta play for the long game and make sure to protect the threats that land. Also, 4x Glimmer of Genius plus 3x Pull from Tomorrow seems like a lot to me. Card draw is good, no doubt, and especially at instant speed, but too much of it means you're not doing anything other than drawing cards. I'll try it out as is, though.
Might go -1 glimmer -1 pull +2 anticipate, early draw is important too for land drops. I've lost more games to lack of early draw screwing my curve than anything.
Ever since pure UR started taking hard knocks from BG Energy and RGx energy and they spoiled Solemnity, I've been testing Jeskai, and I've come to two conclusions:
Solemnity is decidedly not what control wants to be doing turn 3, and it's too late to help later.
Even with Solemnity being disappointing, Jeskai is in a great spot right now.
Here's the 75 that I'm planning to run after Friday:
W/UW Monument: 55/45 preboard, over 70/30 postboard
This matchup is insanely in Jeskai's favor, to the point that I'd recommend this deck over any other if you expect large numbers of Monument players in your meta. While they can often go absurdly wide absurdly fast, their lack of an anthem effect means that they're usually putting you to 10 and letting you untap into a wrath. And as a bonus, since all our wraths are CMC 5 or more, Spell Queller doesn't grab them. Post-board, we have access to 10 wraths and 2 bounce effects (admittedly, the Chandras are not in there to be wraths, that's just added value) and go-wide can't really stabilize.
GB Energy: 55/45 preboard, 45/55 postboard
This matchup was the absolute worst for UR control, and it's still one of the tough matchups for the deck. Game 1 is in our favor a bit, since Fumigate is really good in the matchup, but this deck has explosive enough starts at times that they can overwhelm us if they go fast. It's not happened often to me in testing, but it's a very real threat. After boarding, the biggest threat we need to worry about is Gonti, Lord of Luxury. If he resolves, he usually grabs countermagic and can ruin us at the crucial moment. Other than that one situation, we're still about 55/45 favored postboard.
If you're playing this deck a lot and think Solemnity is a good idea, I tested it and it's really underwhelming. It's far better in this deck to have countermagic up than to use turn 3 dropping that.
RGx Energy: 60/40 preboard, 65/35 postboard
My friend and playtesting partner plays RGx Energy, and after a particularly one-sided set of games, he said that this matchup was his most unfavored matchup. While I disagree and think it's much closer than he said, we are quite favored here. Either the deck runs out multiple large threats and gets blown out by a boardwipe, or it plays a few smaller ones and gets blown out by the spot removal. That's not to say it can't take games, because it definitely can. It's more that RGx lacks the card advantage engines that GB has and is much easier to force into a topdecking scenario.
B/WB Zombies: 60/40 preboard, 70/30 postboard
Again, we have a deck that pretty much folds to the number of board-clears we have. This matchup really boils down to whether we're able to have 5 untapped lands turn 5 or not, and even in situations where we have to wait until turn 6 to board-wipe, we're often not in any immediate danger of dying.
Unusual Card Choices and Reasoning
Descend Upon the Sinful - I'm running this over more Fumigate or more Hour of Devastation for two reasons. First, the exile clause is relevant in a format with Selfless Spirit, Archangel Avacyn, and the Zombie deck's recursion. Second, this deck has a much easier time getting delirium than I ever expected before I played it: cycling enchantments and lands, plus 6 artifact creatures, really helps stack the types up.
Cataclysmic Gearhulk - This card has really outperformed my expectations for it in testing. It's a relevant threat to draw even on an empty board, it hits noncreature permanents, it's sacrifice-based wrath, and it's another card name for when they're throwing Disposess. It stabilizes so well, I can't see wanting less than 3 in my 75, barring something like mono-U mill becoming a real deck (at which point I'll need more enchantment removal or countermagic).
Forsake the Worldly - I've been considering running this in the main over the singleton Essence Scatter because of the uptick of Monument, but I don't know. I do value having at least one out to an unexpected enchantment, and the cycling is a plus. If it turns out that HOU standard is basically devoid of meaningful enchantments, I can see putting in another Abrade over this, but for now it's staying.
Harnessed Lightning - While many people testing this deck have replaced Harnessed wholesale, I find its ability to kill off a Verdurous Gearhulk that made it past my countermagic to be very valuable.
Ever since pure UR started taking hard knocks from BG Energy and RGx energy and they spoiled Solemnity, I've been testing Jeskai, and I've come to two conclusions:
Solemnity is decidedly not what control wants to be doing turn 3, and it's too late to help later.
Even with Solemnity being disappointing, Jeskai is in a great spot right now.
Here's the 75 that I'm planning to run after Friday:
W/UW Monument: 55/45 preboard, over 70/30 postboard
This matchup is insanely in Jeskai's favor, to the point that I'd recommend this deck over any other if you expect large numbers of Monument players in your meta. While they can often go absurdly wide absurdly fast, their lack of an anthem effect means that they're usually putting you to 10 and letting you untap into a wrath. And as a bonus, since all our wraths are CMC 5 or more, Spell Queller doesn't grab them. Post-board, we have access to 10 wraths and 2 bounce effects (admittedly, the Chandras are not in there to be wraths, that's just added value) and go-wide can't really stabilize.
GB Energy: 55/45 preboard, 45/55 postboard
This matchup was the absolute worst for UR control, and it's still one of the tough matchups for the deck. Game 1 is in our favor a bit, since Fumigate is really good in the matchup, but this deck has explosive enough starts at times that they can overwhelm us if they go fast. It's not happened often to me in testing, but it's a very real threat. After boarding, the biggest threat we need to worry about is Gonti, Lord of Luxury. If he resolves, he usually grabs countermagic and can ruin us at the crucial moment. Other than that one situation, we're still about 55/45 favored postboard.
If you're playing this deck a lot and think Solemnity is a good idea, I tested it and it's really underwhelming. It's far better in this deck to have countermagic up than to use turn 3 dropping that.
RGx Energy: 60/40 preboard, 65/35 postboard
My friend and playtesting partner plays RGx Energy, and after a particularly one-sided set of games, he said that this matchup was his most unfavored matchup. While I disagree and think it's much closer than he said, we are quite favored here. Either the deck runs out multiple large threats and gets blown out by a boardwipe, or it plays a few smaller ones and gets blown out by the spot removal. That's not to say it can't take games, because it definitely can. It's more that RGx lacks the card advantage engines that GB has and is much easier to force into a topdecking scenario.
B/WB Zombies: 60/40 preboard, 70/30 postboard
Again, we have a deck that pretty much folds to the number of board-clears we have. This matchup really boils down to whether we're able to have 5 untapped lands turn 5 or not, and even in situations where we have to wait until turn 6 to board-wipe, we're often not in any immediate danger of dying.
Unusual Card Choices and Reasoning
Descend Upon the Sinful - I'm running this over more Fumigate or more Hour of Devastation for two reasons. First, the exile clause is relevant in a format with Selfless Spirit, Archangel Avacyn, and the Zombie deck's recursion. Second, this deck has a much easier time getting delirium than I ever expected before I played it: cycling enchantments and lands, plus 6 artifact creatures, really helps stack the types up.
Cataclysmic Gearhulk - This card has really outperformed my expectations for it in testing. It's a relevant threat to draw even on an empty board, it hits noncreature permanents, it's sacrifice-based wrath, and it's another card name for when they're throwing Disposess. It stabilizes so well, I can't see wanting less than 3 in my 75, barring something like mono-U mill becoming a real deck (at which point I'll need more enchantment removal or countermagic).
Forsake the Worldly - I've been considering running this in the main over the singleton Essence Scatter because of the uptick of Monument, but I don't know. I do value having at least one out to an unexpected enchantment, and the cycling is a plus. If it turns out that HOU standard is basically devoid of meaningful enchantments, I can see putting in another Abrade over this, but for now it's staying.
Harnessed Lightning - While many people testing this deck have replaced Harnessed wholesale, I find its ability to kill off a Verdurous Gearhulk that made it past my countermagic to be very valuable.
So I really like your list as well as your explanations for the most part. The only thing I couldn't get past was the last thing you said. Your reasoning for wanting more harnessed lightning was because it kills verdurous gearhulk but yet you have abrade which is a far more versatile card in the up-coming meta. I believe that you could replace the harnessed lightnings with a third abrade and 2 other cards of your choice, possibly stasis snare or just more cast out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Wars may come and go but my soldiers, they are eternal."
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Yeah, I just totally forgot that Verdurous was an artifact creature. Abrade is probably the better call, though it's always nice to have access to a 4-damage removal spell to respond to Avacyn triggers.
Avacyn is much less of a concern now with Hour of Devastation. Flashing in Avacyn in response to Hour of Devastation won't prevent board wipe thanks to it removing indestructible.
What is the general cons3nsus on what our removal package should be?
Right now I run 4x Abrade, 3x Magma Spray, 2x Harnessed Lightning mainboard, but I'm curious what numbers everyone else is at.
I think 4x abrade is correct. A 2 mana answer to collusus and God pharaohs gift and heart of Kiran and gearhulks and also anything with 3 or less toughness is literally almost never a dead draw. Given the prevelencw of zombies and scrapheap scrounger you could pronably say the same for magma spray, but I just run 3 MB and 1 in sb
Yeah, I just totally forgot that Verdurous was an artifact creature. Abrade is probably the better call, though it's always nice to have access to a 4-damage removal spell to respond to Avacyn triggers.
Modern: UW Spirits
I mostly playtest this 1.0 version of the deck against Golgari constrictor and so far it has sucess.
This is what a typical match can look like:
Golgari turn 1: land
Izzet turn 1: land
Golgari turn 2: land, Longtusk Cub
Izzet turn 2: land
Golgari turn 3: land, Rishkar. Izzet Response - harnessed lightning on Cub
Izzet turn 3: land
Golgari turn 4: land, walking ballista. Izzet counters with Supreme Will. Attack with Rishkar for 3.
Izzet turn 4: land
Golgari turn 5: land, Verdous Gearhulk. Izzet response - cycle Obstructionist to counter ETB trigger. Attack with Rishkar for 3.
Izzet turn 5: land, Hour of Devastation. Rishkar and Gearhulk dies.
From there on it's a walk in the park as Golgari is out of threats on hand.
In terms of kitchen table style points he's awesome. In terms of standard competitive playability he's bad. You *do not* want to make your mana base less reliable so you can run a 7-drop that will be dead in your hand 9/10 times and forces you to tap out in your own turn to play it, assuming you have 7 mana and one of those mana is black.
Chandra is infinitely better, but even then she just doesn't fit our gameplan so she isn't ran. Style points don't win tournaments and on turn 4 i'd infinitely rather hold up mana to counter a spell or glimmer at eot than I would tap out for chandra.
Also, avoid supreme will. Not nearly as good in practice as it appears to be. Nimble Obstructionist is also not good in standard. If we wanted a flying flashing body, spell queller is way better and hits more stuff, but neither belong in this deck.
On the other hand, I think Hour of Dev is a 3-of mainboard, it's just that good. Much better for our purposes than glorybringer or fumigate. Abrade is 100% a 4-of mainboard. Harness can move to the SB because abrade us just better against the meta. G2 you can swap emm if you know you'll need to deal with lots of things with 4 or more toughness.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Here's what I'm testing right now:
1 The Locust God
3 Abrade
3 Censor
3 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Magma Spray
3 Supreme Will
1 Negate
2 Consign/Oblivion
1 Pull From Tomorrow
5 Mountain
9 Island
4 Aether Hub
1 Choked Estuary
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
I really like Consign//Oblivion, so I threw in an Estuary (although it might end up being a Fetid Pools instead) to help hardcast, although I will be more likely Gearhulking that during my opponents' draw step.
What do you all think of Negate and Essence Scatter numbers, now that we have more good removal and can 'let' more things resolve?
Modern - Living End
Main EDH Generals
- Mayael the Anima Fatty Fun - Zedruu Political Multiplayer
- Jeleva Oops All Spells - Roon the Bouncing Rhino
Consign / Oblivion doesn't strike me as all that great, I think for that same effect I'd much rather just run Unsummon. The aftermath half is ludicrously overcosted and the only time i want to pay 5 mana for a sorcery speed mind rot is when I literally have nothing else to do. Certainly not worth warping your mana base for...
If you like the consign effect, Unsummon is way better for almost all of the relevant targets. If unsummon doesn't catch your fancy, then i'd run Commit / Memory (which I'm testing in mainboard as a 1-2 of because of the great interaction with gearhulk).
As for Negate / Essence Scatter, i'm running 4x Negate and 3x Scatter within my 75. I usually mainboard 2 of each and then the rest are in the sb.
On supreme will: I've tested it and I've hated it even though I was very much on the hype train when it was spoiled. It just feels super clunky at 3 mana. Censor is good because early game it's a 2 mana counterspell and late game its a 1 mana cantrip. Both versions are good and its up to the player to determine when to use which mode.
Supreme Will on the other hand is a 3 mana counterspell, so it's already clunky. Add to that that it's not a hard-counter but rather a mana leak and it's even worse. The draw mode is what I found myself using it for most frequently, but at that point there are several spells I'd prefer for 3 mana to draw with.
The difference between Supreme Will and Censor is entirely in the cost. At 2 mana for a force spike Censor is still decent, and when attached to a 1 mana cantrip it's quite good. Supreme Will doesn't have a cost reducted draw ability, so it's 3 mana both ways. That's the biggest difference. Censor is great at any time because it only costs 1 mana to pitch it for something else late in the game. Supreme Will will always cost 3 mana for an effect that should cost 2, and 3 mana is quite expensive in this format. (Other notable 3 mana spells include Disallow, Gideon of the Trials, Liliana of the Lost Hope, Nissa Voice, etc)
TLDR: Censor is great because the 2 mana version is good-not-great and the 1 mana version is good-not-great. Supreme Will is bad because both versions are overcosted and also good-not-great. 2 or 1 mana is a lot easier to spend and still be able to hold up mana for other stuff than 3 or 3 mana is.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Grixis Control
4x Evolving Wilds
4x Fetid Pools
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Swamp
4x Wandering Fumarole
1x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
4x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Abrade
3x Censor
4x Disallow
2x Fatal Push
2x Glimmer of Genius
2x Grasp of Darkness
2x Pull from Tomorrow
2x Supreme Will
1x Cut//Ribbons
4x Hour of Devastation
2x Ruinous Path
I think the reason for this is pretty simple. PW's simply do not fit with the gameplan against most decks. The meta is too punishing right now to tap out for a sorcery-speed planeswalker that doesn't automatically win the game. Chandra is certainly the best option, but if you +1 her on turn 4 you're essentially paying 4 mana and 1 card off the top to shock your opponent. If you use her -3 to remove a creature then not only is she likely to die the very next turn, but you've also spent 4 mana for what you could accomplish with a Harnessed Lightning and an Aether Hub.
That was the logic pre-HoU. The benefits of running 2x chandra, 1x ob in the main are simply not enough compared to the cons of tapping out to allow them to resolve a gideon or a glorybringer or something else.
If that was the calculus before we were running 3-4 PW Boardwipes in the form of Hour of Devastation, I can only imagine the case has been made even more concrete that PW's and Draw-Go-Control do not mix.
Of course, people are free to experiment and run whatever they would like. But if you're trying to run the most finely tuned/most competitive version of control you can in standard, you're not going to want planeswalkers and you're abso-*******-lutely not gonna want Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh no matter how cool he is.
New card goggles is a thing. It's like beer goggles or nostalgia goggles. Nicol Bolas is the new fancy 7-drop and by far the coolest pw printed in a while, and that makes you want to run him, but he's not good. He's very bad. He's a 7 mana mind rot bad. Do not fall into the new card trap. That's not to say all new cards are bad (abrade and hour of devastation are incredible) but Nicol Bolas is bad in this deck.
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As for splashing for B for Grixis control, I just don't think it's worth it. If you're going to splash anything splash white.
The reason for this is the landbase is just wayyy better. **** running 4x evolving wilds, that's horrible. Jeskai has access to Port Town, and Prairie Stream which is way better than adding non-U producing lands or a ton of taplands to make grixis work.
Regardless, before you splash you should ask yourself what your deck gains by adding that splash and what it loses. UR now has the tools to do literally everything URW or URG or UWB has. We have the counters, we have the removal to graveyard, we have the removal to exile, we have the board wipes, we have the artifact hate, we have the card draw, etc. Sure we don't have declaration in stone, but you can do a close approximation of it with Incendiary Flow if you're in a zombies-heavy meta. If you were running dec in stone as removal for stuff flow can't hit, you'd probably be better off just running more counterspells to prevent those threats from resolving in the first place. We don't have fumigate but we have the infinitely better Hour of Devastation. We don't have Transgress the Mind or the other discard effects, but who cares? 2 mana hand disruption is very bad unless you're facing a combo deck where you need to disrupt, and Marvel got banned. The next best combo deck is super fringe, new perspectives, and you just need any old counterspell on turn 6 to stop that. Marvel was a threat because it could come down on turn 4, or come down on turn 6 backed up by a negate or turn 5 backed up by a dispel. Perspectives isn't even close to the same threat and so hand disruption is much less useful. (At 2cmc that is, if they reprint thoughtseize then I will switch to Grixis very quickly.)
Ultimately, the cost of running a 3rd color and subjecting yourself to more variance, more bad draws, more mana screw/color screw vs the benefit of what you gain by adding that color just isn't worth it.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I don't understand what you mean. Consign/Oblivion has the same interaction with Gearhulk (getting the aftermath part casted for free), and it hits Planeswalkers, for two cheaper mana. This helps delay faster decks like Constrictor GB energy and zombies where you just might need another quick answer. Plus Ithink Oblivion will be extremely relevant in the mirror matches, which we'll see more of this season.
Modern - Living End
Main EDH Generals
- Mayael the Anima Fatty Fun - Zedruu Political Multiplayer
- Jeleva Oops All Spells - Roon the Bouncing Rhino
I also generally would prefer to use my gearhulks to generate card advantage either by drawing me 2 cards or countering one of their spells, and in general i feel like untargetted discard isn't super strong in standard right now. I can't think of many instances I'd prefer to hulk Oblivion instead of Glimmer, including the mirror.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Modern - Living End
Main EDH Generals
- Mayael the Anima Fatty Fun - Zedruu Political Multiplayer
- Jeleva Oops All Spells - Roon the Bouncing Rhino
What is the general opinion on Thing in the Ice? I like the interaction with gearhulk.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Modern - Living End
Main EDH Generals
- Mayael the Anima Fatty Fun - Zedruu Political Multiplayer
- Jeleva Oops All Spells - Roon the Bouncing Rhino
EDIT: Here is a new list. With sideboard. What do you think will be the main things to go after in the sideboard? I've tried to prepare for Zombies (Incendiary Flow in addition to the maindecked Magma Sprays), vehicles (extra artifact destruction including 1-of Release the Gremlins which unfortunately is sorcery-speed but I want an option to get tempo advantage should they play multiple vehicles), and shifting the counter magic based on whether they are playing few or many creatures... I'm unsure about ever needing more than 2 Sweltering Suns in the current format. There doesn't seem to be a true aggro deck at the moment. Constrictor decks get bigger than 3 toughness too easily. Maybe it's a solid choice against vehicles since most of the other creatures are fairly small.
9x Island
4x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
4x Wandering Fumarole
4x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Abrade
4x Censor
4x Disallow
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Magma Spray
2x Negate
3x Pull from Tomorrow
2x Hour of Devastation
2x Sweltering Suns
2x Abrade
3x Essence Scatter
2x Hour of Devastation
3x Incendiary Flow
2x Negate
1x Release the Gremlins
2x Sweltering Suns
It worries me that I only have a total of 8 ways of damaging my opponent, but I guess that is not much different than how it was last time U/x control decks were good. Just gotta play for the long game and make sure to protect the threats that land. Also, 4x Glimmer of Genius plus 3x Pull from Tomorrow seems like a lot to me. Card draw is good, no doubt, and especially at instant speed, but too much of it means you're not doing anything other than drawing cards. I'll try it out as is, though.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Here's the 75 that I'm planning to run after Friday:
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kefnet the Mindful
2 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
Enchantment (2)
2 Cast Out
Instant (22)
2 Magma Spray
3 Harnessed Lightning
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Censor
3 Disallow
1 Commit // Memory
2 Supreme Will
2 Abrade
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Essence Scatter
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Aether Hub
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Prairie Stream
2 Needle Spires
1 Wandering Fumarole
Sorcery (3)
2 Fumigate
1 Descend upon the Sinful
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Cast Out
1 Forsake the Worldly
2 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Supreme Will
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Hour of Devastation
Matchups I've tested with this deck
W/UW Monument: 55/45 preboard, over 70/30 postboard
This matchup is insanely in Jeskai's favor, to the point that I'd recommend this deck over any other if you expect large numbers of Monument players in your meta. While they can often go absurdly wide absurdly fast, their lack of an anthem effect means that they're usually putting you to 10 and letting you untap into a wrath. And as a bonus, since all our wraths are CMC 5 or more, Spell Queller doesn't grab them. Post-board, we have access to 10 wraths and 2 bounce effects (admittedly, the Chandras are not in there to be wraths, that's just added value) and go-wide can't really stabilize.
GB Energy: 55/45 preboard, 45/55 postboard
This matchup was the absolute worst for UR control, and it's still one of the tough matchups for the deck. Game 1 is in our favor a bit, since Fumigate is really good in the matchup, but this deck has explosive enough starts at times that they can overwhelm us if they go fast. It's not happened often to me in testing, but it's a very real threat. After boarding, the biggest threat we need to worry about is Gonti, Lord of Luxury. If he resolves, he usually grabs countermagic and can ruin us at the crucial moment. Other than that one situation, we're still about 55/45 favored postboard.
If you're playing this deck a lot and think Solemnity is a good idea, I tested it and it's really underwhelming. It's far better in this deck to have countermagic up than to use turn 3 dropping that.
RGx Energy: 60/40 preboard, 65/35 postboard
My friend and playtesting partner plays RGx Energy, and after a particularly one-sided set of games, he said that this matchup was his most unfavored matchup. While I disagree and think it's much closer than he said, we are quite favored here. Either the deck runs out multiple large threats and gets blown out by a boardwipe, or it plays a few smaller ones and gets blown out by the spot removal. That's not to say it can't take games, because it definitely can. It's more that RGx lacks the card advantage engines that GB has and is much easier to force into a topdecking scenario.
B/WB Zombies: 60/40 preboard, 70/30 postboard
Again, we have a deck that pretty much folds to the number of board-clears we have. This matchup really boils down to whether we're able to have 5 untapped lands turn 5 or not, and even in situations where we have to wait until turn 6 to board-wipe, we're often not in any immediate danger of dying.
Unusual Card Choices and Reasoning
So I really like your list as well as your explanations for the most part. The only thing I couldn't get past was the last thing you said. Your reasoning for wanting more harnessed lightning was because it kills verdurous gearhulk but yet you have abrade which is a far more versatile card in the up-coming meta. I believe that you could replace the harnessed lightnings with a third abrade and 2 other cards of your choice, possibly stasis snare or just more cast out.
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Yeah, I just totally forgot that Verdurous was an artifact creature. Abrade is probably the better call, though it's always nice to have access to a 4-damage removal spell to respond to Avacyn triggers.
Right now I run 4x Abrade, 3x Magma Spray, 2x Harnessed Lightning mainboard, but I'm curious what numbers everyone else is at.
I think 4x abrade is correct. A 2 mana answer to collusus and God pharaohs gift and heart of Kiran and gearhulks and also anything with 3 or less toughness is literally almost never a dead draw. Given the prevelencw of zombies and scrapheap scrounger you could pronably say the same for magma spray, but I just run 3 MB and 1 in sb
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Thats why I like stasis snare or cast out they deal with Archangel Avacyn without having to always make sure you have that extra energy.
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP