I'd like to make a case for Night Market Lookout. This guy seems pretty good for us. The rulings on crewing a vehicle are such that we can get multiple triggers off of multiple lookouts on a single copter at end of turn or before a block. It seems like with fiery temper, alms of the vein and maybe flame lash, we could get there with just direct damage and madness enablers...even when the board is clogged in other aggro match ups. I'm gonna test this week and report back.
Am I just way off base here?
I completely agree, in fact i was just playtesting a similar idea. At one point i had 2 of them crewing a copter to get in that extra damage and life gain. Between those guys, alms of the vein, i was able to have just enough life to live from a big swing. Id usually finish off opponents with making guys haste from my Olivias, or a key to the city to make a guy unblockable. And restocking my hand with Bomats.
Lookout's utility could be a great addition to the list. I even like the idea of attacking, getting a trigger and then hitting for one.
I definitely attack with him sometimes on turn 2 or so, but so far ive gotten the best out of him as a Copter Crewer.
Night Market Lookout has been a staple in my deck since before I started reading this thread. I tried some of the other one drops discussed in here in place of him, and haven't been as happy with the results. I have a couple other differences, too, but still trying to figure out what works best.
Hello everyone, below is my version of the deck. Any Advice you can give would be welcome. Thinking about dropping a couple of the Collective Defiance to add a couple more creatures to the mix. Let me know what you think!
Hello everyone, below is my version of the deck. Any Advice you can give would be welcome. Thinking about dropping a couple of the Collective Defiance to add a couple more creatures to the mix. Let me know what you think!
I like the idea of it, ive also been working on a low creature high burn deck that ill post tonight(at work). I think id replace the Insolents with Bomat Courier. He will give you more artifacts for your Disintegrates. Also..scrapheap scrounger would be nice as a way to discard him, but bring him back.
Yeah I can see why the bomats could make sense. I chose the Neonates because they serve so many functions. If I drop one on turn one it will likely get through for a couple damage due to menace, it can crew the copter, its a discard outlet for my madness cards, and it can draw me a card if necessary. I like the scrapheap scrounger idea. Maybe I will take out two collective defiance and put a couple of those into it. In my testing so far I haven't had any trouble having either a key to the city or a copter out when I play disintegration but a couple more couldn't hurt
I didn't believe in Bomat until I played with it. I've drawn 7 cards off Bomat, and can regularly get 3-4. People that respect it will kill it early enough that you can't get value. However, if my opponent is using removal on a Raging Goblin, I'm relatively happy.
Why is it that I hate playing against Control with this deck?
Functionally, aggro decks like this beat control, yet for whatever reason I'm having a lot of problems with the matchup, namely against planeswalker-heavy variants like B/W.
Am I just playing the match-up wrong? Can anyone give me advice towards how exactly to play against a control deck? I always just find it stressful and tiring.
I'm not sure if it is right, however, I tried out a strategy of siding out my Copters on the draw against UW. When they are on the play, they can keep up with our threats and strand a vehicle. Seemed to work alright. Perhaps this is the purpose of the Bushwhackers in the original SCG Open lists. It would be nice if one of the pros like Rubin did a deck tech article.
Does anyone have any ideas for beating the Marvel match-up consistently (or at least consistently enough that it's not a death sentence).
Control sides don't seem to work as we still don't have tools to kill Ulamog or Emrakul and basically just end up playing a slower deck for no reason.
Transgress is great when we hit a Marvel, but that only ever really occurs if we're lucky or if we saw them add one via Crane or something similar.
Ruinous Gremlin is okay, but unless they play Marvel when they're sub-6 energy, or the first Marvel fails to hit anything big, it usually fails to kill Marvel before the damage is done.
So far the best strategy I've found for beating Marvel is just to go as wide and fast as you can with cards like Reckless Bushwhacker and hope that we can kill them before they get anything meaningful off. Perhaps something like a burn-centric side could work so we can kill them without interacting with their Ulamog/Emrakul?
It'd be cool if someone found a way to turn this deck Grixis so we had some negation to stop Marvel, but I doubt we have even close to enough space for that.
Am I just over valuing the threat of Marvel in this meta?
Transgress + Aggro. I like casting Transgress a turn before they can Marvel. They have a lot of scry'd and dig, but they also only have 4 pieces to that combo and will almost never hardcast their threats. If you can hit one with pressure, it's tough for them to recover quick enough, despite Koz Return. This strat probably means mulligan aggressively for fast hands with Apprentice and another artifact creature and hopefully a Transgress. The matchup might feel a bit coin flippy, but I think that's just a symptom of the Marvel deck itself.
Edit: Ruinous is not what you want, since they will almost always activate the turn they play it. You really have to either nab it with discard or counterspell it. Splashing Blue for Rejection could be a thing if you really want to hate on it, but that will make the mana a bit worse.
Ran the list I posted above with a couple of sideboard changes last night to second place. As I've mentioned before, my local store is VERY control heavy, and I faced U/W Flash/control brew (2-0), Grixis Control (0-2), and Jeskai Control (2-1) to make top 4. It's normal that the top 4 split prizes 2-2-2-2, but there was one cocky guy that insisted no playing, and of course, I got paired against him. He was on Grixis control as well, and took the first round. Second round my board did its work, and having a curve of T1 Apprentice, T2 Courier (which got removed on his T2) and Borrowed Hostility, T3 Key and Borrowed Hostility, T4 Chandra plus Flow, T5 GDD flash back Flow. Game 3 I got very lucky, as I was able to again work through the curve (this time T1 Apprentice, T2 double Hostility), and he couldn't pull a black source to cast Unlicensed Disintegration or Grasp (the only removal spell in his hand at the time), and also couldn't get his 6th untapped source out to flash in Torrential Gearhulk. That win put me through to the finals, where I faced the same guy as I did in round 2. Although I took game 2 from him, I still was not able to keep up with him as he just killed off everything I played either in combat or EOT.
I boarded the same all night, with +2 Chandra, +2 Borrowed Hostility, +2 GDD, -2 Key, -2 Castigator, -1 Courier, -1 Defiance. I basically switched to the plan of having a bit of aggro (with unexpected pumps), and then using Chandra to grind through the deck, deal an uncounterable 2 a turn, and flash anything back with GDD. I'm thinking of reducing the more creature-centric part of the sideboard in order to improve further against the control decks, and seeing if there's any way to go super aggro with more 1 drops, main board pump spells, and just hope I can stick things before they die. Any thoughts on how I can improve this match-up are welcomed.
The base list came from Steve Rubin's GP list, and swapping Prodder for Pia (makes the control decks have to consider taking damage or giving card advantage), Defiance for Disintegration (same CC, a little less flexible on creature removal though), and Castigator for Cruiser (I don't have any Cruisers, and Castigator is better against the off chance of a low-to-the-ground match-up). The board was more difficult, and was kind of fill in the gaps at the same CC, rather than functionality. I think there's a few more changes to be made there, tbh. The Hostilities basically came about as a way to try and speed up against the huge amount of control that I have to face. I'm actually thinking of playing two main board and two more in the side for next outing, or maybe moving Chandras to 3 in the main, and 4 Hostility in the side...
EDIT: Just looked at the list on CFB - the single Neonate is an interesting choice! May have to try that as an extra 1 drop if I'm going the Hostility route as well...
So im going to be playing at my local shop tonight, ill be running the list that Pardee played on CFB and has some videos for. I know that i was all about the Night Market Lookout but have since moved to Inventor's Apprentice. I love having the usually 2/3 body, and its easier on the mana.
Question for those playing R/b, and the use of Unlicensed Disintegration. What do you use it most for? Creature removal, or the added bonus of 3 to the face? With playing mono-red, I obviously don't have access to that, so as of now I've been running Collective Defiance as I can get both creatures (with less than 4 toughness, obviously) and players. Is that suitable, or would it be better to run something like Lightning Axe in order to have instant speed creature removal?
Along those lines, I'm assuming that just 4 Aether Hub is not enough to run Disintegrations in my main? What about running something like Unknown Shores in lieu of the RB duals that I can't get my hands on?
I'm not sure what you mean. It isn't modal. You get both from Disintregration as long as you control and artifact.
Yeah, I probably wasn't overly clear... I realise it's basically like Draconic Roar, where you get the creature damage (or removal in this case), and get the bonus 3 damage if you fill the other clause (dragon/artifact). I guess what I meant is whether you fire it off ASAP regardless of if you have an artifact, or whether it's preferred to wait until you can grab the 3 damage as well. In short - what's the best replacement for it? Creature removal or to-the-face burn? I'm wondering whether Collective Defiance is the best direct replacement for it in my mono-red version...
Nah. Hold it for killing big stuff generally. If you can swing in for a lot of damage by removing a minor blocker then that is also worthwhile. However, the deck is not properly a Burn deck. So it isn't fast enough at burning people out to justify getting little value from Disintegration.
So, I haven't posted since the 3rd page, and I just skimmed through pages to see if anything had been posted like this. I didn't see anything, but that could mean I just missed it. I had a mono-red list before, but with control being so much more popular now than it was back on page 3, I decided I needed to add a bit more resiliency to my list than I had before. It lead me to a kinda grixis build. It's still steeply red, but adding Scrapheap Scrounger and Prized Amalgam has lead to a slight black splash and a slighter blue splash. I haven't checked to see if there are other black or blue cards I might want to add, but I'm definitely open to suggestions. This is the first pass at this list, so constructive criticism is definitely welcome. Also, since it's a first pass, I don't have a sideboard or mana base hammered out.
Some modifications. In the main I cut Fleetwheel Cruiser and went with a full set of Forerunner. The sideboard is a complete rework to try out some of the other cards that decks have played.
Round 1: Abzan Aggro 2-1
I'm guessing somewhat similar to the Top8 lists in the recent SCG classic. First game they just couldn't keep up with the aggression backed up by Burn. Second game, I think I sideaboarded incorrectly. I tried the control plan on the draw, but Westvale Abbey proved to be a serious issue to that game plan. Game 3 I was on the play and resided into an aggressive deck and again was able to apply too much pressure too quickly.
Round 2: Grixis Control 2-0
Basically the Shota PT decklist. This is where Forerunners really shined, because the extra pressure from haste was big. I managed to take the first game by T6 before he was able to turn the corner with Gearhulk. Game 2, I sided in Transgress over Flow, which helped to keep him off Radiant Flames and Gearhulks. One of my Bomat Couriers drew me 5 cards, as he was constantly busy with bigger threats. That sealed the deal.
Round 3: GR Pummeler Energy 2-0
Rematch from gameday, as this was the guy and deck that I lost to due to some mana stumbles and a bad keep. I think that match also helped me a bit to figure out the matchup. Game 1 I was on the play and had a really good start, and he wasn't able to get his stuff going quick enough. Game 2 I sided into control, but he had one if those hands light on threats and heavy on pumps. A T4 Chandra on an empty board gave me a clock, and eventually won the game for me after ultimate.
Round 4: 4-Color Aggro 2-0
A brew that I guess was somewhat similar to the GP deck that got some feature matches. Both games he sort of flooded out. First game he drew mostly nothing relevant and aggro got there. I switched to control and ended up Transgressing him 3 times, taking all his real threats. He did draw into a Verdant Gearhulk and nearly got there with it and his manland, but a Disintegration off the top for me sealed the deal.
Been playing a bit with my list, trying to speed it up a bit. The list below has a lowered curve, and included several more haste creatures, and also more mainboard pump spells. These spells are both pseudo-burn on empty boards, and also surprise creature removal. I've stayed on the transition plan to include GDD and Chandra out of the board, and added an extra mountain, as there are now only 21 main. It may seem tight with one Chandra and one GDD main, but those are for late games, and not necessarily expected to be dropped on curve. One thing that I could consider is to swap the Brute Strengths for either Keys (for more card filtering if needed), or Built to Smash/Rush of Adrenaline (to lower the curve further). Other thought was to run Renegade Freighter over the Hellions, given the use of the hasty Fanatics...
Thoughts on how this would run, primarily in a control matchup?
Question to veteran sideboard experts: How do we sideboard against GB delirium? This deck have been popping up more and more, and every time I face it, I feel that my sideboard options are horrible. Is Transgress the Mind justified in this matchup? What about Kalitas?
@JoninWherever: I think Scrounger is better vs control than Speedway, because of the reanimation. But if you are running mono, maybe Speedway would be alright. Hellion is likely better than Pia in that matchup too. I'm not sure on so many pumps, but you might consider Built to Smash instead, since the extra toughness is relevant if they try to use damage based removal. Only trouble is that you can only use it when attacking. Other than that. I don't think you are running even close to enough lands.
@Kapak44: BG Delerium is hard to give a single concrete plan since there seems to be a lot of versions of it. Mostly though, there is the aggro Copter type and then there is the bigger Emrakul Midrange type. I'd likely want Transgress for the Midrange lists, but not the Aggro lists. I think for both you want to bring in Lightning Axe to kill Kalitas and Ishkanah. I think possibly you want Chandra too, but she is less effective vs the Copter version understandably. Generally Bomat Courier would come out, due to it being so poor against Liliana. Depending on their version, you could take out a few flows as well. I probably wouldn't side in Kalitas for either version, but certainly not the bigger Midrange version.
I definitely attack with him sometimes on turn 2 or so, but so far ive gotten the best out of him as a Copter Crewer.
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Furyblade Vampire
Spells (26)
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Key to the City
4 Fiery Temper
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Collective Defiance
3 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
8 Mountain
6 Swamp
3 Ruinous Path
2 Lightning Axe
3 Weaver of Lightning
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Radiant Flames
1 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Grasp of Darkness
I like the idea of it, ive also been working on a low creature high burn deck that ill post tonight(at work). I think id replace the Insolents with Bomat Courier. He will give you more artifacts for your Disintegrates. Also..scrapheap scrounger would be nice as a way to discard him, but bring him back.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Functionally, aggro decks like this beat control, yet for whatever reason I'm having a lot of problems with the matchup, namely against planeswalker-heavy variants like B/W.
Am I just playing the match-up wrong? Can anyone give me advice towards how exactly to play against a control deck? I always just find it stressful and tiring.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Control sides don't seem to work as we still don't have tools to kill Ulamog or Emrakul and basically just end up playing a slower deck for no reason.
Transgress is great when we hit a Marvel, but that only ever really occurs if we're lucky or if we saw them add one via Crane or something similar.
Ruinous Gremlin is okay, but unless they play Marvel when they're sub-6 energy, or the first Marvel fails to hit anything big, it usually fails to kill Marvel before the damage is done.
So far the best strategy I've found for beating Marvel is just to go as wide and fast as you can with cards like Reckless Bushwhacker and hope that we can kill them before they get anything meaningful off. Perhaps something like a burn-centric side could work so we can kill them without interacting with their Ulamog/Emrakul?
It'd be cool if someone found a way to turn this deck Grixis so we had some negation to stop Marvel, but I doubt we have even close to enough space for that.
Am I just over valuing the threat of Marvel in this meta?
Edit: Ruinous is not what you want, since they will almost always activate the turn they play it. You really have to either nab it with discard or counterspell it. Splashing Blue for Rejection could be a thing if you really want to hate on it, but that will make the mana a bit worse.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I boarded the same all night, with +2 Chandra, +2 Borrowed Hostility, +2 GDD, -2 Key, -2 Castigator, -1 Courier, -1 Defiance. I basically switched to the plan of having a bit of aggro (with unexpected pumps), and then using Chandra to grind through the deck, deal an uncounterable 2 a turn, and flash anything back with GDD. I'm thinking of reducing the more creature-centric part of the sideboard in order to improve further against the control decks, and seeing if there's any way to go super aggro with more 1 drops, main board pump spells, and just hope I can stick things before they die. Any thoughts on how I can improve this match-up are welcomed.
3 Looming Spires
4 Aether Hub
16 Mountain
Creature (18)
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Goldnight Castigator
3 Bomat Courier
4 Sin Prodder
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (14)
2 Key to the City
4 Collective Defiance
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
2 Borrowed Hostility
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Lightning Axe
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Weaver of Lightning
4 Galvanic Bombardment
Also, btw. Pardee did some videos on BR aggro on Channel Fireball yesterday as well.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
The base list came from Steve Rubin's GP list, and swapping Prodder for Pia (makes the control decks have to consider taking damage or giving card advantage), Defiance for Disintegration (same CC, a little less flexible on creature removal though), and Castigator for Cruiser (I don't have any Cruisers, and Castigator is better against the off chance of a low-to-the-ground match-up). The board was more difficult, and was kind of fill in the gaps at the same CC, rather than functionality. I think there's a few more changes to be made there, tbh. The Hostilities basically came about as a way to try and speed up against the huge amount of control that I have to face. I'm actually thinking of playing two main board and two more in the side for next outing, or maybe moving Chandras to 3 in the main, and 4 Hostility in the side...
EDIT: Just looked at the list on CFB - the single Neonate is an interesting choice! May have to try that as an extra 1 drop if I'm going the Hostility route as well...
Along those lines, I'm assuming that just 4 Aether Hub is not enough to run Disintegrations in my main? What about running something like Unknown Shores in lieu of the RB duals that I can't get my hands on?
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Yeah, I probably wasn't overly clear... I realise it's basically like Draconic Roar, where you get the creature damage (or removal in this case), and get the bonus 3 damage if you fill the other clause (dragon/artifact). I guess what I meant is whether you fire it off ASAP regardless of if you have an artifact, or whether it's preferred to wait until you can grab the 3 damage as well. In short - what's the best replacement for it? Creature removal or to-the-face burn? I'm wondering whether Collective Defiance is the best direct replacement for it in my mono-red version...
Defiance does a pretty good impression.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Bomat Courier
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Furyblade Vampire
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Distemper of the Blood
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Fiery Temper
Artifacts 3
3 Smuggler's Copter
Lands 23
23 Lands
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
Spells (18)
2 Key to the City
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Smoldering Marsh
3 Swamp
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Some modifications. In the main I cut Fleetwheel Cruiser and went with a full set of Forerunner. The sideboard is a complete rework to try out some of the other cards that decks have played.
Round 1: Abzan Aggro 2-1
I'm guessing somewhat similar to the Top8 lists in the recent SCG classic. First game they just couldn't keep up with the aggression backed up by Burn. Second game, I think I sideaboarded incorrectly. I tried the control plan on the draw, but Westvale Abbey proved to be a serious issue to that game plan. Game 3 I was on the play and resided into an aggressive deck and again was able to apply too much pressure too quickly.
Round 2: Grixis Control 2-0
Basically the Shota PT decklist. This is where Forerunners really shined, because the extra pressure from haste was big. I managed to take the first game by T6 before he was able to turn the corner with Gearhulk. Game 2, I sided in Transgress over Flow, which helped to keep him off Radiant Flames and Gearhulks. One of my Bomat Couriers drew me 5 cards, as he was constantly busy with bigger threats. That sealed the deal.
Round 3: GR Pummeler Energy 2-0
Rematch from gameday, as this was the guy and deck that I lost to due to some mana stumbles and a bad keep. I think that match also helped me a bit to figure out the matchup. Game 1 I was on the play and had a really good start, and he wasn't able to get his stuff going quick enough. Game 2 I sided into control, but he had one if those hands light on threats and heavy on pumps. A T4 Chandra on an empty board gave me a clock, and eventually won the game for me after ultimate.
Round 4: 4-Color Aggro 2-0
A brew that I guess was somewhat similar to the GP deck that got some feature matches. Both games he sort of flooded out. First game he drew mostly nothing relevant and aggro got there. I switched to control and ended up Transgressing him 3 times, taking all his real threats. He did draw into a Verdant Gearhulk and nearly got there with it and his manland, but a Disintegration off the top for me sealed the deal.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Thoughts on how this would run, primarily in a control matchup?
2 Looming Spires
19 Mountain
Creatures (19)
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Insolent Neonate
2 Lathnu Hellion
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Speedway Fanatic
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (15)
1 Lightning Axe
2 Brute Strength
4 Borrowed Hostility
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
1 Mountain
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Lightning Axe
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Weaver of Lightning
3 Collective Defiance
3 Galvanic Bombardment
@Kapak44: BG Delerium is hard to give a single concrete plan since there seems to be a lot of versions of it. Mostly though, there is the aggro Copter type and then there is the bigger Emrakul Midrange type. I'd likely want Transgress for the Midrange lists, but not the Aggro lists. I think for both you want to bring in Lightning Axe to kill Kalitas and Ishkanah. I think possibly you want Chandra too, but she is less effective vs the Copter version understandably. Generally Bomat Courier would come out, due to it being so poor against Liliana. Depending on their version, you could take out a few flows as well. I probably wouldn't side in Kalitas for either version, but certainly not the bigger Midrange version.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)