My vehicles deck is far from aggro, though. I'd say it plays more like an aggressive mid range deck than anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Very encouraging. I really liked how Weaver of Lightning performed out of the sb.
The final starts about 8:52:00 into the recording.
They also did a dech tech of a typical list from the event.
Looks like he avoided bomat and went for Selfless Spirit to give some protection against removal. Not a bad choice at all given the meta and all the red removal floating around. I think that 4 gideon in the sideboard is a bit much, but then again this is the Indianapolis SCG Invitational event so it was probably done to combat a predicted meta full of sweepers. Honestly, I probably should get two more Gideon, but with rotation in 6 months it might be hard to pull good trades on a PW that doesn't look like it is played a whole lot in modern.
Anyone else playing this think that four gideon is really necessary?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The primary reason to use Gideon is to survive sweeps like Radiant Flames, Kozilek's Return, etc. Those get played a lot by Emerge decks from what I observed. He's also useful against decks that bring in a lot of removal such a various BR and mono red builds.
Pia Nalaar is used to pump vehicles to get the killing blow in during mid game stalls, hence why he only has two of them. My own build has too many at the moment and she isn't someone you want to see all the time, either.
Also, as to why he isn't running Bomat Courier, I believe it's because he has so much card fixing already with copter and motorists and needed the Selfless spirit far more than the 1/1 artifact creature.
As a quick note, I don't think the list at Indianapolis is the definitive listing for the deck. There are too many ways to take the deck right now and some of it is local meta dependant.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Based on the success of W/R Vehicles, W/R Aggro and Mardu Vehicles at SCG Open Indianapolis, this thread is moving to Proven. Stewardship of MTGSalvation members interested in variants of these decks lies with you. Please let me know if this is a problem. -- hoser2
Yay we are a proven Archetype! Seems like smuggler's copter is going to be on the top of the totem pole for a bit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So with all this success, I suppose incoming dedicated hate is an an inevitability.
I'm definately packing 4 x Selfless Spirit. does anyone think more drastic steps need to be taken?
The most effective spells against aggro are all burn at the moment, and a lot of people are underestimating Chandra's Pyrohelix in standard due to Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning taking center stage vs this deck. Looking at what we have available, the only other options besides Selfless Spirit is Drogskol Shieldmate and Built To Last. Adding green for Blossoming Defense would be a third option, but the manabase for going Naya in this format would seriously slow the deck down.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If these aggro decks stay valuable I think we'll see above card a lot, as it shuts down this as well as the other proven decks.
It's 3 cmc like Kozilek's Return, so really the best options are to buff over it's effective removal power or just side in creatures with enough toughness. I wouldn't expect much vanilla to survive a 3 cmc spell in the current standard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I guess Authority of the Consuls is better in every respect, but the Timmy in me wants to use vehicles to crew other vehicles and then untap my board and swing in for a ton of damage with lifelink.
Cultivator's caravan? Seems a tad bit slow to me, especially given the low amount of creatures that can easily crew it at t5 (7). Without any removal it needs to win before the lategame creatures arrive. Above deck seems just so weak vs something like planeswalker control (liliana wrecks, as she kills anything till 1 of the three depala's, or one of the two start your engines arrive).
Actually, working around liliana's +1 seems to be something this deck archetype needs to do with a sideboard. I see liliana in many, many decks previously and I still expect her to see a lot of play: so what would we sideboard against a bw control deck using liliana/ob nixilis and the like?
Cultivators caravan is at the very least a 5/5 for 3 that is aslo a mana rock and it can be crewed by 11 of my 15 creatures it's worht it a 5/5 is powerful in standard a turn 3 5/5 is just good and it can let you drop skysoverign turn 4
Cultivator's caravan? Seems a tad bit slow to me, especially given the low amount of creatures that can easily crew it at t5 (7). Without any removal it needs to win before the lategame creatures arrive. Above deck seems just so weak vs something like planeswalker control (liliana wrecks, as she kills anything till 1 of the three depala's, or one of the two start your engines arrive).
Actually, working around liliana's +1 seems to be something this deck archetype needs to do with a sideboard. I see liliana in many, many decks previously and I still expect her to see a lot of play: so what would we sideboard against a bw control deck using liliana/ob nixilis and the like?
Cultivators caravan is at the very least a 5/5 for 3 that is aslo a mana rock and it can be crewed by 11 of my 15 creatures it's worht it a 5/5 is powerful in standard a turn 3 5/5 is just good and it can let you drop skysoverign turn 4
I am only seeing 7 creatures with base power 3+ the Veteran Motorists and Depala. Exemplar doesn't get to 3 power until the combat phase and only of your turn. So I wouldn't necessarily count it as a true pilot for caravan. I also think caravan is too slow for an aggro deck, mainly because of the power requirements and lack of ETB effect. But if it works for you, that's great. I just feel lIke it will constantly be an underwhelming card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Currently Playing: WGW/G HumansGW WUW/U SpiritsUW WGG/W TokensGW URU/R ProwessRU
I was thinking, and it seems he is leaning that way as well, that adding Gideon mainboard is probably better than keeping him in the side.
I've been scratching my head as to why it was a 4 of sideboard card in the deck tech from last weekends tournament. Many deck lists including my own have been including at the bare minimum two Gideon, ally of Zendikar in the main because he's just so good even when not playing against a heavy removal deck. I think going full 4 main board is extreme and they should probably mix it up with having some other walker, as black has a way to surgically target predictable, way too consistent decks right now. On the other hand I agree it's a game changer in the mirror.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think Flaying Tendrils is likely going to be making a comeback since it not only gets around selfless spirit, but it wipes all of the turn 1 and 2 drops we have in the deck. Also, there's some decks we have not even seen yet that are very well positioned against WR aggro or any deck running chopper. Namely, some GB builds making use of Night Market Lookout and things like Cryptolith Rite and/or Loam Dryad. Also we still have Zulaport Cutthroat in the format.
This coming weekend is going to be interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Always watching for buffing and taking most creatures out of bolting range. Gisela, the Broken Blade for a flying lifelink tentacle angel. It really depends on the meta.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As I said quite a few posts back: I think this deck true quality will show in how good it can work against a sideboarded flaying tendrils. I'm running a version with selfless spirit in the sideboard, so that "takes" care of much of the burn. However I still don't know what to draw in from the sideboard against black-midrangy decks. (Which will sideboard in flaying tendrils[/c]). Always watching seems to be too pacifist and still waek (same cmc slot, yet it won't protect everything flaying tendrils kills).
Could Gideon, Ally of Zendikar help out here with his ultimate - especially if you're running 4 copies, or is it just too slow?
The reason to play Always Watching over Gideon is that the first hits a turn faster than the PW. The cards we are worried about are all 3 cmc at the highest, so the lower on the curve one goes the better. Realistically, though, we usually wouldn't play that unless we already have creatures on the field. Unfortunately, I don't think we want to run it in this deck because you really need at least two things to attack with to get enough value out of it. Vehicles cut the number of attackers on turn 3 to 1, which, besides making the deck vulnerable to things like Blessed Alliance, also means that we effectively have a spell that says "Give target creature +1/+1 and vigilance". Not exactly thrilling. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is here to make pilots and be a big indestructible 5/5.
I hate to break it to people wanting alternatives to Gideon, but there really isn't any. The closest thing you can do is find something that does one of the things it does and play it instead.
Also, I'm still trying to figure out the playset of Gideon on the last tournament. Did the competitor just put 4 in there due to not knowing how many he really needed to sideboard in? His response in the article suggests he likes the card, but had no idea what the right number of Gideon is.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Gah, I almost forgot, but I did like playing Visionary Augmenter in the four cmc slot as well when I didn't have Gideon yet. Ripley does a good job at providing piloting after a board wipe and gets buffed by Depala, so she usually ends up hitting as a 5/4 or 3/2 with two 1/1 servos. As a bonus, you can fetch her with Depala.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
3 W/R vehicles in the top 8 too. His decklist is here.
Very encouraging. I really liked how Weaver of Lightning performed out of the sb.
The final starts about 8:52:00 into the recording.
They also did a dech tech of a typical list from the event.
Modern: 0Affinity0 - GWBAbzan VizierBWG - RGoblinsR
Standard: URGiftUR
Looks like he avoided bomat and went for Selfless Spirit to give some protection against removal. Not a bad choice at all given the meta and all the red removal floating around. I think that 4 gideon in the sideboard is a bit much, but then again this is the Indianapolis SCG Invitational event so it was probably done to combat a predicted meta full of sweepers. Honestly, I probably should get two more Gideon, but with rotation in 6 months it might be hard to pull good trades on a PW that doesn't look like it is played a whole lot in modern.
Anyone else playing this think that four gideon is really necessary?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
3 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Veteran Motorist
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Thraben Inspector
Vehicles
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Harnessed Lightning
4 Declaration in Stone
Land
4 Needle Spires
4 Inspiring Vantage
6 Mountain
10 Plains
2 Fragmentize
2 Skywhaler's Shot
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Weaver of Lightning
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- What's the purpose of Pia Nalaar? Seems like this deck can use something better.
- What do you bring in Gideon, Ally of Zendikar against?
Pia Nalaar is used to pump vehicles to get the killing blow in during mid game stalls, hence why he only has two of them. My own build has too many at the moment and she isn't someone you want to see all the time, either.
Also, as to why he isn't running Bomat Courier, I believe it's because he has so much card fixing already with copter and motorists and needed the Selfless spirit far more than the 1/1 artifact creature.
As a quick note, I don't think the list at Indianapolis is the definitive listing for the deck. There are too many ways to take the deck right now and some of it is local meta dependant.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Veteran Motorist
4x Gearshift Ace
3x Depala, Pilot Exemplar
1x Metalwork Colossus
Vehicles:
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Cultivator's Caravan
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Built to Last
2x Built to smash
2x Start your engines
Land:
2x Inventors' Fair
4x inspiring Vantage
4x Aether Hub
2x Needle spires
6x Plains
6x Mountain
So with all this success, I suppose incoming dedicated hate is an an inevitability.
I'm definately packing 4 x Selfless Spirit. does anyone think more drastic steps need to be taken?
Modern: 0Affinity0 - GWBAbzan VizierBWG - RGoblinsR
Standard: URGiftUR
The most effective spells against aggro are all burn at the moment, and a lot of people are underestimating Chandra's Pyrohelix in standard due to Galvanic Bombardment and Harnessed Lightning taking center stage vs this deck. Looking at what we have available, the only other options besides Selfless Spirit is Drogskol Shieldmate and Built To Last. Adding green for Blossoming Defense would be a third option, but the manabase for going Naya in this format would seriously slow the deck down.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's 3 cmc like Kozilek's Return, so really the best options are to buff over it's effective removal power or just side in creatures with enough toughness. I wouldn't expect much vanilla to survive a 3 cmc spell in the current standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I guess Authority of the Consuls is better in every respect, but the Timmy in me wants to use vehicles to crew other vehicles and then untap my board and swing in for a ton of damage with lifelink.
Cultivators caravan is at the very least a 5/5 for 3 that is aslo a mana rock and it can be crewed by 11 of my 15 creatures it's worht it a 5/5 is powerful in standard a turn 3 5/5 is just good and it can let you drop skysoverign turn 4
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I am only seeing 7 creatures with base power 3+ the Veteran Motorists and Depala. Exemplar doesn't get to 3 power until the combat phase and only of your turn. So I wouldn't necessarily count it as a true pilot for caravan. I also think caravan is too slow for an aggro deck, mainly because of the power requirements and lack of ETB effect. But if it works for you, that's great. I just feel lIke it will constantly be an underwhelming card.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
I've been scratching my head as to why it was a 4 of sideboard card in the deck tech from last weekends tournament. Many deck lists including my own have been including at the bare minimum two Gideon, ally of Zendikar in the main because he's just so good even when not playing against a heavy removal deck. I think going full 4 main board is extreme and they should probably mix it up with having some other walker, as black has a way to surgically target predictable, way too consistent decks right now. On the other hand I agree it's a game changer in the mirror.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This coming weekend is going to be interesting.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
BGWJunkBGW
RUG
ScapeshiftRUGRGW
Naya ZooRGWBURW
Ad NauseamBURWURW
Kiki ControlURWGW
BogglesGW1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Could Gideon, Ally of Zendikar help out here with his ultimate - especially if you're running 4 copies, or is it just too slow?
Modern: 0Affinity0 - GWBAbzan VizierBWG - RGoblinsR
Standard: URGiftUR
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I hate to break it to people wanting alternatives to Gideon, but there really isn't any. The closest thing you can do is find something that does one of the things it does and play it instead.
On another subject, has anyone tried running Archangel Avacyn instead of Skysovereign, Consul Flagship? If we start running selfless spirit alongside Pia Nalaar there's enough sacrifice outlets to trigger her reliably, and we really don't care too much about our early drops at that point if we have Gideon, Ally of Zendikar on the field already, and not much else survives three damage in the aggro meta outside of Bloodhall Priest, Weaver of Lightning, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet.
Also, I'm still trying to figure out the playset of Gideon on the last tournament. Did the competitor just put 4 in there due to not knowing how many he really needed to sideboard in? His response in the article suggests he likes the card, but had no idea what the right number of Gideon is.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!