So I'll make these changes for those who want them but i will also say this aradara express could go however the otehr vehicles i had in I liked i Like Cultivators' Caravan because it is a 3 mana 5/5 that is easily activateable the next turn or it can be used to drop skysoverign a turn ahead so i think it will stay
(EDIT: Many similarities to Karsten's list, but sticking to a more familiar aggro curve and more Dwarf tribal synergy as a back-up plan. Skysovereign is nuts and 3 copies is probably OK since Copter can loot away extras.)
I've been playing a version of this for my YouTube channel - and I think it sets the bar very well for Aggro. Turn 5 wins are not all that rare with it. I haven't lost a single match yet out of 7 that I played. (I lost a few games - but variance is always a thing)
Vehicles dodge board wipes except for those that are instant speed. Fleetwood Cruiser slams into planeswalkers at unexpected times too to take them out.
I've been playing a version of this for my YouTube channel - and I think it sets the bar very well for Aggro. Turn 5 wins are not all that rare with it. I haven't lost a single match yet out of 7 that I played. (I lost a few games - but variance is always a thing)
Vehicles dodge board wipes except for those that are instant speed. Fleetwood Cruiser slams into planeswalkers at unexpected times too to take them out.
I see you're trying out the StrictlyBetterMtg version! It seems solid and is likely going to be the version I'll be trying aswell. I am curious if the new Chandra might actually fit in here. Replacing Bomat Courier with Thraben Inspector does not seem that bad either, as that would activate both the Apprentice and the Exemplar aswell.
I see you're trying out the StrictlyBetterMtg version! It seems solid and is likely going to be the version I'll be trying aswell. I am curious if the new Chandra might actually fit in here. Replacing Bomat Courier with Thraben Inspector does not seem that bad either, as that would activate both the Apprentice and the Exemplar aswell.
Bomat is much more valuable to this deck than Inspector. Against Black White control that runs Blessed Alliance Bomat has saved me from sacrificing something important. The only card here I'd consider seriously removing is Inventor's Apprentice mainly because it isn't a dwarf.
If you were to swap the Bomats out in favour of Inspectors, then I'd also recommend swapping out the Inventor's Apprentice for Speedway Fanatic to fill the same haste-space to prevent you from having to sacrifice something that's actually a beater.
I'd also strongly recommend Angel of Invention over Gideon. Typically when I cast Gideon I'm either creating tokens to crew or sacrificing him for the Emblem - I've never gotten a chance to attack with him in this deck. Angel pretty much does both of those modes at once - or can be used to create a flying attacker (just not an indestructable one)
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I see you're trying out the StrictlyBetterMtg version! It seems solid and is likely going to be the version I'll be trying aswell. I am curious if the new Chandra might actually fit in here. Replacing Bomat Courier with Thraben Inspector does not seem that bad either, as that would activate both the Apprentice and the Exemplar aswell.
Bomat is much more valuable to this deck than Inspector. Against Black White control that runs Blessed Alliance Bomat has saved me from sacrificing something important. The only card here I'd consider seriously removing is Inventor's Apprentice mainly because it isn't a dwarf.
If you were to swap the Bomats out in favour of Inspectors, then I'd also recommend swapping out the Inventor's Apprentice for Speedway Fanatic to fill the same haste-space to prevent you from having to sacrifice something that's actually a beater.
I'd also strongly recommend Angel of Invention over Gideon. Typically when I cast Gideon I'm either creating tokens to crew or sacrificing him for the Emblem - I've never gotten a chance to attack with him in this deck. Angel pretty much does both of those modes at once - or can be used to create a flying attacker (just not an indestructable one)
I've got two chandra budgeted out to play with so I'll let you know how it goes. My feeling is that she works best when you can get value out of her 2nd or first ability on the play, then next turn bring out a bomb using the extra mana.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been playing a version of this for my YouTube channel - and I think it sets the bar very well for Aggro. Turn 5 wins are not all that rare with it. I haven't lost a single match yet out of 7 that I played. (I lost a few games - but variance is always a thing)
Vehicles dodge board wipes except for those that are instant speed. Fleetwood Cruiser slams into planeswalkers at unexpected times too to take them out.
I think I would have to mainboard the Reckless Bushwhacker he is an all-star in low drop R/W decks. I like running with Thraben Inspector and Bone Saw as well. You may want to gear your sideboard for win turn 3 or 4 with no opponent interaction early game since infinite life gain turn 5 or 6 is going to be a deck. (edit) Also Fiery Temper is probably better sideboard than Incendiary Flow since you run the Copter.
I really like it, I still think there needs to be a spot for Fiery Temper at least in sideboard of any deck running red and the Copter. The ability to madness cast it off the Copter discard, so you get card advantage rather than just cycling or ability to cast if you need to sack the Courier to refill your hand and you still have 1 red mana open is too good to give up. That being said, I'm not sure what I would replace. Maybe 2x Start your Engines and the Authority of the Consuls, but maybe there just isn't a place.
I like the idea of all the vehicles and the start your engines but those are dead turns.
Turn 1 nothing
Turn 2 vehicle
Turn 3 creature, crew vehicle. Maybe get in for 3.
Sciencemike's is better because he curves but still, Speedway Fanatic is the best pilot and curving into t3 Renegade Freighter, atk for 5 trample is legit.
I like the idea of all the vehicles and the start your engines but those are dead turns.
Turn 1 nothing
Turn 2 vehicle
Turn 3 creature, crew vehicle. Maybe get in for 3.
Sciencemike's is better because he curves but still, Speedway Fanatic is the best pilot and curving into t3 Renegade Freighter, atk for 5 trample is legit.
I think I'm sticking to rw humans
Question: Why would you pick Renegade Freighter over Fleetwheel Cruiser? Fleetwheel is obviously the more aggro card, being as it doesn't need to be piloted its first time. Still runs across 5 damage every time too. Also, can block with 5 Power, unlike Freighter should the situation call for it. And the difference between 3 and 4 toughness only while attacking in negligible. The only thing going for it is that its a 3-drop.
Also not sure what you are talking about with a Turn 1: Nothing and not playing on the curve.
The deck has 10 1-drops, including 2 with Haste. Turn 2 with a Toolcraft Exemplar can also be swinging for 3. Turn 3 you are using a 3 drop to pilot a vehicle, and still able to swing with your 1-drop.
I don't know how these decks will match up against Control, but what you said makes no sense.
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Standard
Currently Playing: WGW/G HumansGW WUW/U SpiritsUW WGG/W TokensGW URU/R ProwessRU
one word: BUDGET
that is why you would pick freigther over cruiser
Except the Cruiser isn't really expensive. Averaging around $2.25 a card. I mean if you have really tight budget constraints or are looking at pauper, then yeah, I get it.
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Standard
Currently Playing: WGW/G HumansGW WUW/U SpiritsUW WGG/W TokensGW URU/R ProwessRU
The problem is that Freighter is literally a strictly worse Fleetwheel Cruiser in almost all situations. The primary reason you want to play Renegade Freighter over Fleetwheel cruiser is that the former doesn't take up a 4 cmc slot on the mana curve. On the down side, the 3 cmc slot is the busiest slot in all of standard regardless of deck, and depending on the desired curve you usually only have about 6-8 slots in the 3 cmc range for fast aggro oriented decks. The 4 slot is even more restrictive, with typically only 4-6 slots available.
My feeling on mana curve for the dwarf deck should be something as follows:
So looking at that curve and your options you can see why trying to fit that vehicle in is a problem. The other issue to keep in mind is that with fast lands you are guaranteed turn 4 that if you draw and have to play a fast land, it will enter the game tapped. That means you are forced to play any 4 cmc option potentially on turn 5, and thus makes most 4 cmc cards turn 4 OR turn 5 plays. That's generally why the enemy color pairings are horrible for mid-range and control builds this coming standard and why so many people are gravitating towards aggro or low to the ground decks that don't depend on turn 4 plays hitting on time. Heck, it's probably not a good idea playing man lands in most enemy color decks, but people are doing it anyway because at least they give you an option later to animate. Realistically Needle Spires is an AWFUL card for dwarf aggro because if control just hit with a sweeper we probably lost the game already, most likely because we tempo-broke ourselves playing a man land turn 4 instead of curving smoothly into Fleetwheel Cruiser.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
@GW2GuruUser7586 Probably a silly question but what are you boarding in the Reckless Bushwhackers against?
Against control mainly to rush out around whatever they are trying to block their planeswalkers with. Fleetwheel Cruiser usually does the job just fine on it's own though. I'm not liking it.
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Hey guyses, went 4-0-1 with this last night, without dropping a game. Not as dedicated to vehicles as most of the lists in this thread, but I wasn't sure where else to post. Really wanted to focus on the synergy between Trinketeer and Pia, along with the Servo Exhibitions.
I think Bomat is better than I gave him credit for and may try to squeeze in a third. Also considering swapping Flows for Fiery Temper, though there's a lot of Gisela in my shop and it's nice to exile her.
Authority overperforms, I'll be going up to 3. Excellent synergy with Nahiri. Their bomb enters tapped and is immediately ready for exile. I should probably get Declarations in there as well.
Hope the deck is useful to someone. I normally run mono-red so I may have the wrong balance of basics, if anyone wants to correct me.
Basically, my entire sideboard is built on the philosophy of "If I can't out aggro the aggro, I'm blowing the aggro up and then beating them over the head". The only thing I dislike about my sideboard is that to get the most out of SoI blocks version of shock, you have to have four shocks. I also don't know if I like Harnessed Lightning, but given it's the closest thing to a true Lightning Bolt we have in standard I'm taking it. Chandra is mostly there as more anti-walker tech and a impromptu Flame Lash on creatures.
Edit: Looks like one of the decks on the pro-tour went a similar direction. Jeff Hoogland was running America Spirits and I think it was Jacob Baugh that was running the W/R Vehicles?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Chief of the foundry isn't as good as Depala since it can't pilot the skyship on it's own.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh, didn't notice as I had to run through the list really fast. It's definitely another option, it's just that I think people underestimate Pia's ability to buff vehicles Power to boost damage along with disposing of blockers. That and Pia is pretty good with clue tokens since she can sacrifice them for free to create an opening.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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2x Gearshift Ace
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Speedway Fanatic
4x Veteran Motorist
2x Depala, Pilot Exemplar
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2x Renegade Freighter
4x Cultivators Caravan
2x Demolition Stomper
2x Avrada Express
4x Start Your Engines
2x Welding Sparks
2x Built to Smash
Lands:
4x Inspiring Vantage
2x Inventor's Fair
9x Mountain
9x Plains
So what are your thoughts? do you think it might work? suggestions? Please Comment
Start your Engines
Inventors' Fair
2x Gearshift Ace
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Speedway Fanatic
4x Veteran Motorist
2x Depala, Pilot Exemplar
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4x Cultivators' Caravan
4x Smuggler's Copter
2x Fleetwheel Cruiser
Spells:
4x Start Your Engines
2x Welding Sparks
2x Built to Smash
4x Inspiring Vantage
2x Inventor's Fair
9x Mountain
9x Plains
So I'll make these changes for those who want them but i will also say this aradara express could go however the otehr vehicles i had in I liked i Like Cultivators' Caravan because it is a 3 mana 5/5 that is easily activateable the next turn or it can be used to drop skysoverign a turn ahead so i think it will stay
I will probably end up writing a primer for the deck on Friday or something.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
No less than 3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship!!
Looking forward to the primer.
Modern: 0Affinity0 - GWBAbzan VizierBWG - RGoblinsR
Standard: URGiftUR
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Veteran Motorist
4 Speedway Fanatic
4 Fairgrounds Warden
2 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
3 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
//Spells: 4
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Avacyn's Judgment
4 Needle Spires
4 Inspiring Vantage
16 other lands
(EDIT: Many similarities to Karsten's list, but sticking to a more familiar aggro curve and more Dwarf tribal synergy as a back-up plan. Skysovereign is nuts and 3 copies is probably OK since Copter can loot away extras.)
Vehicles dodge board wipes except for those that are instant speed. Fleetwood Cruiser slams into planeswalkers at unexpected times too to take them out.
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Veteran Motorist
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
Vehicles (8)
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Servo Exhibition
2 Declaration in Stone
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands (23)
4 Needle Spires
4 Inspiring Vantage
8 Mountain
7 Plains
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Fragmentize
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Incendiary Flow
3 Reckless Bushwhacker
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I see you're trying out the StrictlyBetterMtg version! It seems solid and is likely going to be the version I'll be trying aswell. I am curious if the new Chandra might actually fit in here. Replacing Bomat Courier with Thraben Inspector does not seem that bad either, as that would activate both the Apprentice and the Exemplar aswell.
Bomat is much more valuable to this deck than Inspector. Against Black White control that runs Blessed Alliance Bomat has saved me from sacrificing something important. The only card here I'd consider seriously removing is Inventor's Apprentice mainly because it isn't a dwarf.
If you were to swap the Bomats out in favour of Inspectors, then I'd also recommend swapping out the Inventor's Apprentice for Speedway Fanatic to fill the same haste-space to prevent you from having to sacrifice something that's actually a beater.
I'd also strongly recommend Angel of Invention over Gideon. Typically when I cast Gideon I'm either creating tokens to crew or sacrificing him for the Emblem - I've never gotten a chance to attack with him in this deck. Angel pretty much does both of those modes at once - or can be used to create a flying attacker (just not an indestructable one)
I've got two chandra budgeted out to play with so I'll let you know how it goes. My feeling is that she works best when you can get value out of her 2nd or first ability on the play, then next turn bring out a bomb using the extra mana.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
@GW2GuruUser7586 Probably a silly question but what are you boarding in the Reckless Bushwhackers against?
Modern: 0Affinity0 - GWBAbzan VizierBWG - RGoblinsR
Standard: URGiftUR
I think I would have to mainboard the Reckless Bushwhacker he is an all-star in low drop R/W decks. I like running with Thraben Inspector and Bone Saw as well. You may want to gear your sideboard for win turn 3 or 4 with no opponent interaction early game since infinite life gain turn 5 or 6 is going to be a deck. (edit) Also Fiery Temper is probably better sideboard than Incendiary Flow since you run the Copter.
I really like it, I still think there needs to be a spot for Fiery Temper at least in sideboard of any deck running red and the Copter. The ability to madness cast it off the Copter discard, so you get card advantage rather than just cycling or ability to cast if you need to sack the Courier to refill your hand and you still have 1 red mana open is too good to give up. That being said, I'm not sure what I would replace. Maybe 2x Start your Engines and the Authority of the Consuls, but maybe there just isn't a place.
I like the idea of all the vehicles and the start your engines but those are dead turns.
Turn 1 nothing
Turn 2 vehicle
Turn 3 creature, crew vehicle. Maybe get in for 3.
Sciencemike's is better because he curves but still, Speedway Fanatic is the best pilot and curving into t3 Renegade Freighter, atk for 5 trample is legit.
I think I'm sticking to rw humans
Question: Why would you pick Renegade Freighter over Fleetwheel Cruiser? Fleetwheel is obviously the more aggro card, being as it doesn't need to be piloted its first time. Still runs across 5 damage every time too. Also, can block with 5 Power, unlike Freighter should the situation call for it. And the difference between 3 and 4 toughness only while attacking in negligible. The only thing going for it is that its a 3-drop.
Also not sure what you are talking about with a Turn 1: Nothing and not playing on the curve.
The deck has 10 1-drops, including 2 with Haste. Turn 2 with a Toolcraft Exemplar can also be swinging for 3. Turn 3 you are using a 3 drop to pilot a vehicle, and still able to swing with your 1-drop.
I don't know how these decks will match up against Control, but what you said makes no sense.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
that is why you would pick freigther over cruiser
Except the Cruiser isn't really expensive. Averaging around $2.25 a card. I mean if you have really tight budget constraints or are looking at pauper, then yeah, I get it.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
My feeling on mana curve for the dwarf deck should be something as follows:
1 cmc = 8 cards
2 cmc = 8-10 cards
3 cmc = 6-8 cards
4 cmc = 4-6 cards
5 cmc = 0-2 cards
6+ cmc = 0 cards
So looking at that curve and your options you can see why trying to fit that vehicle in is a problem. The other issue to keep in mind is that with fast lands you are guaranteed turn 4 that if you draw and have to play a fast land, it will enter the game tapped. That means you are forced to play any 4 cmc option potentially on turn 5, and thus makes most 4 cmc cards turn 4 OR turn 5 plays. That's generally why the enemy color pairings are horrible for mid-range and control builds this coming standard and why so many people are gravitating towards aggro or low to the ground decks that don't depend on turn 4 plays hitting on time. Heck, it's probably not a good idea playing man lands in most enemy color decks, but people are doing it anyway because at least they give you an option later to animate. Realistically Needle Spires is an AWFUL card for dwarf aggro because if control just hit with a sweeper we probably lost the game already, most likely because we tempo-broke ourselves playing a man land turn 4 instead of curving smoothly into Fleetwheel Cruiser.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Against control mainly to rush out around whatever they are trying to block their planeswalkers with. Fleetwheel Cruiser usually does the job just fine on it's own though. I'm not liking it.
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
2 Bomat Courier
3 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Master Trinketeer
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Incendiary Flow
3 Collective Defiance
4 Servo Exhibition
4 That RW fast land
7 Mountain
7 Plains
I think Bomat is better than I gave him credit for and may try to squeeze in a third. Also considering swapping Flows for Fiery Temper, though there's a lot of Gisela in my shop and it's nice to exile her.
SB last night was
Authority overperforms, I'll be going up to 3. Excellent synergy with Nahiri. Their bomb enters tapped and is immediately ready for exile. I should probably get Declarations in there as well.
Hope the deck is useful to someone. I normally run mono-red so I may have the wrong balance of basics, if anyone wants to correct me.
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Inventors' Fair
7 Mountain
4 Needle Spires
7 Plains
Spells
4 Declaration in Stone
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Bomat Courier
4 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Veteran Motorist
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fragmentize
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Harnessed Lightning
Basically, my entire sideboard is built on the philosophy of "If I can't out aggro the aggro, I'm blowing the aggro up and then beating them over the head". The only thing I dislike about my sideboard is that to get the most out of SoI blocks version of shock, you have to have four shocks. I also don't know if I like Harnessed Lightning, but given it's the closest thing to a true Lightning Bolt we have in standard I'm taking it. Chandra is mostly there as more anti-walker tech and a impromptu Flame Lash on creatures.
Edit: Looks like one of the decks on the pro-tour went a similar direction. Jeff Hoogland was running America Spirits and I think it was Jacob Baugh that was running the W/R Vehicles?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!