World breaker? Reflector or Exile him and keep attacking. The bigger problem is i think sweepers like Kozilek's Return and Chandra.
Well of course that would work lol, but both of those are main deck options and he was asking about sideboard tech against ramp.
Right, and that tech needs to answer sweepers, not mere Eldrazis. I don't feel they are a real problem.
I like Eerie Interlude to dodge the sweeper, or else Negate to counter Chandra, K-Return and/or major ramp cards.
sofacoin, I won't say if Warping Wail is good or not, but it isn't the same as Negate. One of these counters Kozilek's Return and planeswalkers and Always Watching.
this is my current list , I went 5-1 at a gpt this weekend , so far I really like how the deck performed.My only loss was due to an error for rushing the game against an abzan company.
I must say Essence flux is an amazing card in this deck.When paired with reflector mage is a pseudo removal , Not to mention the ability to steal games with lieutenant pumping the team or the ability to dodge removals .I'm really impress with the card.
The same could be said for Ojutai's command but to a less extend due the mana cost .
With the W/x lists being on a lot of radars moving forward, what are people's thoughts on how to adapt the deck against the influx of board sweepers and decks (such as Bant Company) that stabilise well in the mid-game?
The more aggressive list can simply run someone over if they stumble, with a swarm of creatures that get pumped to end the game quickly. My question is if you should continue to go all-in on this strategy knowing that people will be preparing for this, or move to a more midrange deck with cards like Archangel of Tithes and Dragonlord Ojutai to have a strong and often unanswerable mid-game?
The invitational results would show that either strategy is viable. Gerry Thompson dominated the swiss rounds with his more mid-rangey Wu Humans list before losing in the top 8, and Max McVety ran the faster monowhite version to the Invitational championship. I would say at this point to build the version you're most comfortable with and adapt that to the meta. As for sweepers, the Wu version is probably best able to address that due to the counterspells available out of the sideboard. Both decks will have access to Eerie Interlude to potentially combat sweepers (if you're in a situation where you can hold up 3 mana) as well as Vryn Wingmare to slow those sweepers down a bit. The Wingmare strategy, to my knowledge, is untested at this point, but Thalia (admittedly better than Wingmare) did and continues to do a lot of work in that role since the first Innistrad block, and it might be worth pursuing.
Also, flying seems to be very relevant. Bant Company isn't running Eldrazi Skyspawner AND Wingmate Roc any longer, they're only packing 2 copies of Avacyn main deck. McVety won because of Griff's Boon as far as I can tell, emphasizing the importance of flying in the current meta.
Well, the metagame has responded to the influx of Wx Human decks...the top-8 at the Pro Tour has the following: 2 decks with 3 Tragic Arrogance in the sideboard, 3 decks with at least 3 Languish main deck, and 1 deck with 4 Kozilek's Return main deck. Where do we go from here?
Monowhite humans put 70-something % of its pilots into Day 2 and Watanabe was in top-8 contention until round 15, but there's no human decks in the top-8.
Going as fast as possible might be the best strategy. I played a very slightly tweaked Boss Humans deck at FNM and went 2-2, barely losing back to back game 3s to BW Midrange decks, each packing 4 Languish. I also flooded a bit in both instances, and it was still super close. The best draws with this deck are nigh unbeatable, I even had 2 turn-4 kills. I feel like the Wu Humans decks are too slow to compete with the rest of the meta and get out valued late in the game.
Also thinking about trying some variation of the deck here:
It maintains the human synergy, provides better sideboard options than monowhite, and allows for quick rebuilding after sweepers with Company. Might be worth trying.
Green white did worse than blue white though, I think now that there is a lot more diversity in the format the level of hate might be reduced. Right now I'm trying a stratus dancer and two eerie interludes in the main.
Green white did worse than blue white though, I think now that there is a lot more diversity in the format the level of hate might be reduced. Right now I'm trying a stratus dancer and two eerie interludes in the main.
That is a good point, all these decks came locked and loaded to attack Bant Company and Wx Humans. Once things balance out and these new decks have to be accounted for as well, the removal will change some too.
That said, things like Eerie Interlude or Negate might necessitate main board slots like you mentioned. It will be an adjustment trying to play with mana up on T4/5, but it should be possible. My problem, which I'm sure is shared by many other monowhite pilots, is to overcommit in attempting to go for a quick kill. That's clearly a mistake in the developing meta, and something we have to learn to resist, especially me!
Also, for monowhite, I'm thinking of running 2 Bygone Bishop in the main for extra clues and incremental card advantage should the game go long. It worked for Gerry Thompson with Wu Humans and, though monowhite is a different play style, it should work here in theory also.
I don't worry too much; Watanabe may have done quite well, but he got mana screwed. Chye also played humans and nearly got there.
I'm thinking less about answers to sweepers- they're not as big a deal as I thought!- and more how to answer B/G aristocrats. Between flooding the board with super expendable chumps, being able to outclass creatures with Tuko, and being able to drain life they seem a hard matchup AND a high-tier deck.
I'm currently looking into going monowhite with Felidar Cub main. Cryptolith Rite accounts for a lot of gas, and forcing them to deal with it first without having to leave mana open seems like a good plan.
Seems reasonable, enchantment hate has to be part of the sideboard at the very least moving forward. That deck feels kinda like Rally when you watch it, and we all saw how heavily played that was last standard. On the plus side, it seems rather complicated to pilot efficiently, that may lessen its presence at our local shops.
Game one was pretty typical - played a lot of one and two drops against ramp spells and Jadi Offshoots and knocked him out before Chandra could come down. Game two was defined by getting Always Watching online the turn before he played Kozelich's Return, and then having two Negates ready for his two Chandra, Flame Callers.
(-4 Archangel of Tithes, -1 Declaration in Stone, +2 Gideon, +2 Negate, +1 Ojutai's Command)
Round 2: 2-1 vs Jund Midrange
My opponent used some answers early and beat my early threats but didn't have anything lined up for my three Archangel of Tithes. Game two he brought in some Clip Wings and was able to answer two Archangel of Tithes and an Ojutai. Game three was another aggressive start and lucked on killing him before he could find a board wipe.
Game one was mostly about my resolving multiple Knight of the White Orchid and Reflector Mages and just being generally bigger than anything he was doing. Game two I was able to knock him off-tempo with Tragic Arrogance, then found Immolating Glare to deal with his Archangel of Tithes.
Game one was disappointing. On the draw, I mulliganed a one land hand into another one land that had Thraben Inspector, Kytheon, Knight of the White Orchid, Consul's Lieutenant, Always Watching, and one Plains. I pushed my scry to the bottom and gambled that I had some play on the first two turns without land and would hopefully see a land reasonably soon. I did not see my second land until turn 4 and got steamrolled. I roared back with multiple one and two drops on game two (noticing a theme there) and we played a fairly competitive game 3, but he just drew more removal spells than I did creatures and won with an Archangel Avacyn and a Shambling Vent.
(-4 Archangel of Tithes, -3 Declaration in Stone, +2 Gideon, +2 Dragonlord Ojutai, +3 Negate)
Round 5: 2-1 vs U/R Goggles:
My opponent got his goggles online quick and was able to deal with a mediocre start from my deck. Again, the deck roared back with an aggressive start on game two, and game 3 was dictated by me finding three Always Watching and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to eventually grind my opponent out while he couldn't flip his Thing in the Ice.
(+3 Negate, +2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, -4 Declaration in Stone, -1 Archangel of Tithes)
Round 6: 2-0 vs Bant Company
Going into the match, I knew that I had to be the aggressor, but at the same time also be mindful of my opponent's ability to change the tempo of the game quickly. Archangel of Tithes + always watching were clutch in both games, but I think this had less to do with me and more with his inability to find the card Collected Company.
Unfortunately, this opponent was able to find Collected Company and just ran me over. The highlight was him being able to attack with eight creatures for lethal through an Archangel of Tithes.
While I was pleased with how the deck performed, it did feel like the deck would benefit more from being lower to the ground. It might be time to push Archangel of Tithes to the sideboard, but she has performed well with Always Wathching and is a reasonable threat that can live through a Languish. If I were gonna play the list again, I'd probably cut two Consul's Lieutenants to move the Dragonlord Ojutai to the main and find some kind of mana sink to fill the sideboard slot. I saw a couple of white deck use Quarantine Field to reasonable effect, and that might be something for the more midrangey human lists to consider.
We'll have to see how the rest of the Pro Tour pans out, but I agree with the sentiment that it might be time to be running maindeck Negates with so many deck gunning for us. i also think that a more aggressive UW deck could be viable that perhaps tops out at Archangel of Tithes, something like Gerry Thompson's deck from the invitation. I still love the deck, but I do think we need to make some adjustments.
I've been tooling around with that type of Wu list as I don't currently own any Avacyn lol. I agree though, combining the aggression of the monowhite deck with the resiliency if the Wu deck could be a really powerful result.
Agreed. The easiest Chandra to beat is the one that never resolves. Rebuilding after she wipes the board isn't impossible, but it is an uphill climb. The one advantage we have is that Chandra is usually the best play available to an opponent whenever they have six mana, so you can usually try to steer the game to the point where you can keep Negate up to deal with her.
Alternatively, Archangel Avacyn is a great out to Chandra's -X ability, and can usually fly over an opponent's board to finish her off.
Agreed. The easiest Chandra to beat is the one that never resolves. Rebuilding after she wipes the board isn't impossible, but it is an uphill climb. The one advantage we have is that Chandra is usually the best play available to an opponent whenever they have six mana, so you can usually try to steer the game to the point where you can keep Negate up to deal with her.
Alternatively, Archangel Avacyn is a great out to Chandra's -X ability, and can usually fly over an opponent's board to finish her off.
But if they Neg 4 doesn't it kill her too?
Or does she still get to flip because it killed other creatures?
Frankly, even if they -4 their Chandra, it's still a huge upside for them because it'll either wipe your board or leave you with like one, maybe two creatures. By the time they have access to six mana, you should be able to have enough board presence that keeping up a two or three mana instant is viable. Also:
I've been tooling around with that type of Wu list as I don't currently own any Avacyn lol. I agree though, combining the aggression of the monowhite deck with the resiliency if the Wu deck could be a really powerful result.
Personally, I've been tinkering with W/u as a pure tempo build (e.g. no one-mana 2/1s, mainboard Bygone Bishop for incremental card advantage, etc), but haven't really had the opportunity to test it against the post Pro Tour field yet. It seems solid based on my prior testing (it's a bit slower at racing ramp, but it doesn't get blown out or out-valued as easily as pure aggro builds), and I'm feeling increasingly like mainboard Negate isn't actually a bad idea.
Personally, I've been tinkering with W/u as a pure tempo build (e.g. no one-mana 2/1s, mainboard Bygone Bishop for incremental card advantage, etc), but haven't really had the opportunity to test it against the post Pro Tour field yet. It seems solid based on my prior testing (it's a bit slower at racing ramp, but it doesn't get blown out or out-valued as easily as pure aggro builds), and I'm feeling increasingly like mainboard Negate isn't actually a bad idea.
I agree with Negate potentially being a mainboard card. As the PT demonstrated, Control strategies are alive and well in standard and are only going to become better tuned as time goes on. The fact that Humans didn't put anyone in the top 8 might help us out a bit, but I can't imagine people are just going to stop packing sweepers. A Wu Tempo strategy might be one effective way to evolve as the format changes.
I mentioned on the previous page that I was interested in a Bant Humans/Collected Company hybrid as a potential way to adapt to the increase in sweeper effects. That same deck, almost card for card, was played to a 7-3 standard record at the PT by Jesse Hampton. His Bant Humans decklist is about halfway down the page. Obviously Collected Company is really powerful, but the human synergy adds a very different strategy than typical Bant Company. Thinking of trying it out at FNM this week but I'm unsure about the mana base. I'll have to test it!
It looks like he took the best parts of both of the splashes (Reflector Mage and Tireless Tracker) and added collected company for some value. It doesn't play Always Watching, so the deck looks really reliant upon drawing Thalia's Lieutenant and Tireless Tracker to make the creatures threats bigger.
In addition having Collected Company seems a nice way to dig for specific creatures, and Tireless Tracker, turns every draw into gas. I may be giving this build a try, if I can find my some Tireless Trackers.
It looks like he took the best parts of both of the splashes (Reflector Mage and Tireless Tracker) and added collected company for some value. It doesn't play Always Watching, so the deck looks really reliant upon drawing Thalia's Lieutenant and Tireless Tracker to make the creatures threats bigger.
In addition having Collected Company seems a nice way to dig for specific creatures, and Tireless Tracker, turns every draw into gas. I may be giving this build a try, if I can find my some Tireless Trackers.
Yep, that's the one I was talking about, pretty sweet huh? I think this maintains the synergy of humans really well and adds resiliency without really sacrificing anything. I love the fact that the traditional Bant Company/Megamorph mainstays Den Protector and Hidden Dragonslayer are humans. Den Protector can become basically unblockable by the majority of the creatures in Standard with a Megamorph and a Thalia's Lieutenant pumping the team. Dragonslayer can snipe and opponent's creature and gain you huge chunks of life too. Both creatures have a greater value after flipping than they do in other shells. We would have the best of both worlds when it comes to sideboard options too with Negates for decks playing sweepers, Clip Wings for decks playing Avacyn, and extra Dromoka's Commands in the board for the Human matchup.
I am considering a couple changes to that list though. I'm unsure of the mana base, it seems light on green and blue sources to make sure we can reliably cast all our spells on time. Considering adding a couple Evolving Wilds to smooth out the mana base and add to the Tracker shenanigans. I'll put an example mana base below.
I'm also considering moving the two main deck Dromoka's Command to the sideboard in favor of two Gideon, Ally of Zendikar or Sigarda, Heron's Grace (my nostalgia from the previous Innistrad block is begging me to try and make Sigarda good). Gideon would be better for the longer games and could also be an anthem effect in place of Always Watching. Sigarda can survive Kozilek's Return and Languish, and she can block an untransformed Avacyn all day. Dromoka's Command can then be a sideboard strategy against the new Cryptolith Rite sacrifice deck and Human mirrors.
Finally, I'm considering raising the curve just a tiny bit because I think this deck will play a bit slower yet stronger than traditional Human decks. I am thinking of replacing 4 Town Gossipmonger and 1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros with 3 Den Protector and 2 Bygone Bishop. Adding the Megamorph package to the main deck still maintains the synergy but adds recursion that is lacking otherwise. The Bygone Bishop is a great hit off Company and has ridiculous synergy with Tireless Tracker. Now, this is entirely dependent on how the deck plays. It might run significantly faster than I'm thinking it will and those changes won't be necessary. I'll have to test it out and see. All things considered, here's what I'm going to test out:
What do you guys think? The mana base does have some come-into-the-battlefield-tapped lands, but we have more flexibility with time in this shell. What do you all think of the list? I appreciate all your feedback!
I'm playing a very low curve U/W deck that stops a three cmc. The way that I'm fighting the hate is with 3 invasive surgery in the main. It's paying off because it stops me from losing more games then it was a dead card in my hand. Holding one mana up in my deck that plays about 21 one drops is much easier then two mana for negate. Delirium is not a factor just the mana cost. So far out of 12 games I've only lost two.
I'm not playing anointer but the 18 lands is working well. Knight of the white orchid lands are not a problem. I'm splashing blue so that I don't lose to languish (main deck invasive surgery). Instead of anointer of chammpions. But I think lowering the cmc of the deck is the way to go.
I'm playing a very low curve U/W deck that stops a three cmc. The way that I'm fighting the hate is with 3 invasive surgery in the main. It's paying off because it stops me from losing more games then it was a dead card in my hand. Holding one mana up in my deck that plays about 21 one drops is much easier then two mana for negate. Delirium is not a factor just the mana cost. So far out of 12 games I've only lost two.
Why Invasive Surgery over Negate? 1CMC is better than 2CMC, but I feel that answering Chandra is also as important as Languish.
I'm playing a very low curve U/W deck that stops a three cmc. The way that I'm fighting the hate is with 3 invasive surgery in the main. It's paying off because it stops me from losing more games then it was a dead card in my hand. Holding one mana up in my deck that plays about 21 one drops is much easier then two mana for negate. Delirium is not a factor just the mana cost. So far out of 12 games I've only lost two.
Why Invasive Surgery over Negate? 1CMC is better than 2CMC, but I feel that answering Chandra is also as important as Languish.
My deck stops a three lands leaving one mana up when you only have 18 lands is much easier. But I haven't tested negate yet so it might be better I'm just happy with invasive surgery because people fall for it all the time because it's only one mana.
Dragonlord ojutai has performed superbly in my UW humans deck. He always, I repeat, always won me the game if I got him out with an always watching on the field. The card advantage he provides in an aggro deck like this is just so crucial
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Well of course that would work lol, but both of those are main deck options and he was asking about sideboard tech against ramp.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Right, and that tech needs to answer sweepers, not mere Eldrazis. I don't feel they are a real problem.
I like Eerie Interlude to dodge the sweeper, or else Negate to counter Chandra, K-Return and/or major ramp cards.
sofacoin, I won't say if Warping Wail is good or not, but it isn't the same as Negate. One of these counters Kozilek's Return and planeswalkers and Always Watching.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I must say Essence flux is an amazing card in this deck.When paired with reflector mage is a pseudo removal , Not to mention the ability to steal games with lieutenant pumping the team or the ability to dodge removals .I'm really impress with the card.
The same could be said for Ojutai's command but to a less extend due the mana cost .
2x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Dragon Hunter
4x Thraben Inspector
2x Hanweir Militia Captain
1x Knight of the white Orchid
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Reflector Mage
2x Dragonlord Ojutai
Spells:15
3x Declaration in stone
2x Silkwrap
2x Ojutai's Command
3x Essence flux
1x Eerie Interlude
4x Always watching
8x Plains
2x Islands
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream
2x Canopy Vista
2x Yavimaya Coast
1x Ojutai's Command
1x Invasive Surgery
2x Negate
2x Dispel
2x Felidar Cub
2x Knight of the white Orchid
1x Gryff's Boon
1x Mirror Mockery
2x Sigarda , Herons Grace
1x Lantern Scout
The invitational results would show that either strategy is viable. Gerry Thompson dominated the swiss rounds with his more mid-rangey Wu Humans list before losing in the top 8, and Max McVety ran the faster monowhite version to the Invitational championship. I would say at this point to build the version you're most comfortable with and adapt that to the meta. As for sweepers, the Wu version is probably best able to address that due to the counterspells available out of the sideboard. Both decks will have access to Eerie Interlude to potentially combat sweepers (if you're in a situation where you can hold up 3 mana) as well as Vryn Wingmare to slow those sweepers down a bit. The Wingmare strategy, to my knowledge, is untested at this point, but Thalia (admittedly better than Wingmare) did and continues to do a lot of work in that role since the first Innistrad block, and it might be worth pursuing.
Also, flying seems to be very relevant. Bant Company isn't running Eldrazi Skyspawner AND Wingmate Roc any longer, they're only packing 2 copies of Avacyn main deck. McVety won because of Griff's Boon as far as I can tell, emphasizing the importance of flying in the current meta.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Monowhite humans put 70-something % of its pilots into Day 2 and Watanabe was in top-8 contention until round 15, but there's no human decks in the top-8.
Going as fast as possible might be the best strategy. I played a very slightly tweaked Boss Humans deck at FNM and went 2-2, barely losing back to back game 3s to BW Midrange decks, each packing 4 Languish. I also flooded a bit in both instances, and it was still super close. The best draws with this deck are nigh unbeatable, I even had 2 turn-4 kills. I feel like the Wu Humans decks are too slow to compete with the rest of the meta and get out valued late in the game.
Also thinking about trying some variation of the deck here:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1264051
It maintains the human synergy, provides better sideboard options than monowhite, and allows for quick rebuilding after sweepers with Company. Might be worth trying.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
That is a good point, all these decks came locked and loaded to attack Bant Company and Wx Humans. Once things balance out and these new decks have to be accounted for as well, the removal will change some too.
That said, things like Eerie Interlude or Negate might necessitate main board slots like you mentioned. It will be an adjustment trying to play with mana up on T4/5, but it should be possible. My problem, which I'm sure is shared by many other monowhite pilots, is to overcommit in attempting to go for a quick kill. That's clearly a mistake in the developing meta, and something we have to learn to resist, especially me!
Also, for monowhite, I'm thinking of running 2 Bygone Bishop in the main for extra clues and incremental card advantage should the game go long. It worked for Gerry Thompson with Wu Humans and, though monowhite is a different play style, it should work here in theory also.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Seems reasonable, enchantment hate has to be part of the sideboard at the very least moving forward. That deck feels kinda like Rally when you watch it, and we all saw how heavily played that was last standard. On the plus side, it seems rather complicated to pilot efficiently, that may lessen its presence at our local shops.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Consul's Lieutenant
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Reflector Mage
4 Archangel of Tithes
2 Archangel Avacyn
4 Declaration in Stone
4 Always Watching
Lands (24)
12 Plains
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
2 Meandering River
2 Westvale Abbey
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Immolating Glare
3 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Ojutai's Command
2 Stasis Snare
Round 1: 2-0 vs GR Ramp
Game one was pretty typical - played a lot of one and two drops against ramp spells and Jadi Offshoots and knocked him out before Chandra could come down. Game two was defined by getting Always Watching online the turn before he played Kozelich's Return, and then having two Negates ready for his two Chandra, Flame Callers.
(-4 Archangel of Tithes, -1 Declaration in Stone, +2 Gideon, +2 Negate, +1 Ojutai's Command)
Round 2: 2-1 vs Jund Midrange
My opponent used some answers early and beat my early threats but didn't have anything lined up for my three Archangel of Tithes. Game two he brought in some Clip Wings and was able to answer two Archangel of Tithes and an Ojutai. Game three was another aggressive start and lucked on killing him before he could find a board wipe.
(+2 Dragonlord Ojutai, +2 Negate, -2 Kytheon, -2 Consul's Lieutenant)
Round 3: 2-0 vs Mono-White Humans
Game one was mostly about my resolving multiple Knight of the White Orchid and Reflector Mages and just being generally bigger than anything he was doing. Game two I was able to knock him off-tempo with Tragic Arrogance, then found Immolating Glare to deal with his Archangel of Tithes.
(+2 Immolating Glare, +1 Ojutai's Command, +1 Tragic Arrogance, -2 Kytheon, -2 Consul's Lieutenant)
Round 4: 1-2 vs White/Black Control
Game one was disappointing. On the draw, I mulliganed a one land hand into another one land that had Thraben Inspector, Kytheon, Knight of the White Orchid, Consul's Lieutenant, Always Watching, and one Plains. I pushed my scry to the bottom and gambled that I had some play on the first two turns without land and would hopefully see a land reasonably soon. I did not see my second land until turn 4 and got steamrolled. I roared back with multiple one and two drops on game two (noticing a theme there) and we played a fairly competitive game 3, but he just drew more removal spells than I did creatures and won with an Archangel Avacyn and a Shambling Vent.
(-4 Archangel of Tithes, -3 Declaration in Stone, +2 Gideon, +2 Dragonlord Ojutai, +3 Negate)
Round 5: 2-1 vs U/R Goggles:
My opponent got his goggles online quick and was able to deal with a mediocre start from my deck. Again, the deck roared back with an aggressive start on game two, and game 3 was dictated by me finding three Always Watching and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to eventually grind my opponent out while he couldn't flip his Thing in the Ice.
(+3 Negate, +2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, -4 Declaration in Stone, -1 Archangel of Tithes)
Round 6: 2-0 vs Bant Company
Going into the match, I knew that I had to be the aggressor, but at the same time also be mindful of my opponent's ability to change the tempo of the game quickly. Archangel of Tithes + always watching were clutch in both games, but I think this had less to do with me and more with his inability to find the card Collected Company.
(+3 Negate, +1 Dispel, -2 Kytheon, -2 Consul's Lieutenant)
Round 7: ID
I barely scraped into the top 8 as the 8th seed.
Quarterfinals: 0-2 vs Bant Company.
Unfortunately, this opponent was able to find Collected Company and just ran me over. The highlight was him being able to attack with eight creatures for lethal through an Archangel of Tithes.
(+3 Negate, +1 Dispel, -2 Kytheon, -2 Consul's Lieutenant)
While I was pleased with how the deck performed, it did feel like the deck would benefit more from being lower to the ground. It might be time to push Archangel of Tithes to the sideboard, but she has performed well with Always Wathching and is a reasonable threat that can live through a Languish. If I were gonna play the list again, I'd probably cut two Consul's Lieutenants to move the Dragonlord Ojutai to the main and find some kind of mana sink to fill the sideboard slot. I saw a couple of white deck use Quarantine Field to reasonable effect, and that might be something for the more midrangey human lists to consider.
We'll have to see how the rest of the Pro Tour pans out, but I agree with the sentiment that it might be time to be running maindeck Negates with so many deck gunning for us. i also think that a more aggressive UW deck could be viable that perhaps tops out at Archangel of Tithes, something like Gerry Thompson's deck from the invitation. I still love the deck, but I do think we need to make some adjustments.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
What do I have in blue or white that can kill a planes walker
I don't know how to beat chandra
She wipes my board then just kills me
Quarantine Field
Pacify them
Suppression Bonds
Bounce them, then Negate them
Compelling Deterrence
Disperse
Gone Missing
Void Squall
If more than one
Tragic Arrogance
And a good, old fashioned Negate.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Agreed. The easiest Chandra to beat is the one that never resolves. Rebuilding after she wipes the board isn't impossible, but it is an uphill climb. The one advantage we have is that Chandra is usually the best play available to an opponent whenever they have six mana, so you can usually try to steer the game to the point where you can keep Negate up to deal with her.
Alternatively, Archangel Avacyn is a great out to Chandra's -X ability, and can usually fly over an opponent's board to finish her off.
But if they Neg 4 doesn't it kill her too?
Or does she still get to flip because it killed other creatures?
Personally, I've been tinkering with W/u as a pure tempo build (e.g. no one-mana 2/1s, mainboard Bygone Bishop for incremental card advantage, etc), but haven't really had the opportunity to test it against the post Pro Tour field yet. It seems solid based on my prior testing (it's a bit slower at racing ramp, but it doesn't get blown out or out-valued as easily as pure aggro builds), and I'm feeling increasingly like mainboard Negate isn't actually a bad idea.
I agree with Negate potentially being a mainboard card. As the PT demonstrated, Control strategies are alive and well in standard and are only going to become better tuned as time goes on. The fact that Humans didn't put anyone in the top 8 might help us out a bit, but I can't imagine people are just going to stop packing sweepers. A Wu Tempo strategy might be one effective way to evolve as the format changes.
I mentioned on the previous page that I was interested in a Bant Humans/Collected Company hybrid as a potential way to adapt to the increase in sweeper effects. That same deck, almost card for card, was played to a 7-3 standard record at the PT by Jesse Hampton. His Bant Humans decklist is about halfway down the page. Obviously Collected Company is really powerful, but the human synergy adds a very different strategy than typical Bant Company. Thinking of trying it out at FNM this week but I'm unsure about the mana base. I'll have to test it!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Reflector Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Town Gossipmonger
4 Declaration in Stone
4 Collected Company
2 Dromoka's Command
Land: 23
4 Canopy Vista
4 Fortified Village
10 Plains
4 Port Town
1 Prairie Stream
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Den Protector
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Clip Wings
3 Negate
1 Yavimaya Coast
It looks like he took the best parts of both of the splashes (Reflector Mage and Tireless Tracker) and added collected company for some value. It doesn't play Always Watching, so the deck looks really reliant upon drawing Thalia's Lieutenant and Tireless Tracker to make the creatures threats bigger.
In addition having Collected Company seems a nice way to dig for specific creatures, and Tireless Tracker, turns every draw into gas. I may be giving this build a try, if I can find my some Tireless Trackers.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Yep, that's the one I was talking about, pretty sweet huh? I think this maintains the synergy of humans really well and adds resiliency without really sacrificing anything. I love the fact that the traditional Bant Company/Megamorph mainstays Den Protector and Hidden Dragonslayer are humans. Den Protector can become basically unblockable by the majority of the creatures in Standard with a Megamorph and a Thalia's Lieutenant pumping the team. Dragonslayer can snipe and opponent's creature and gain you huge chunks of life too. Both creatures have a greater value after flipping than they do in other shells. We would have the best of both worlds when it comes to sideboard options too with Negates for decks playing sweepers, Clip Wings for decks playing Avacyn, and extra Dromoka's Commands in the board for the Human matchup.
I am considering a couple changes to that list though. I'm unsure of the mana base, it seems light on green and blue sources to make sure we can reliably cast all our spells on time. Considering adding a couple Evolving Wilds to smooth out the mana base and add to the Tracker shenanigans. I'll put an example mana base below.
I'm also considering moving the two main deck Dromoka's Command to the sideboard in favor of two Gideon, Ally of Zendikar or Sigarda, Heron's Grace (my nostalgia from the previous Innistrad block is begging me to try and make Sigarda good). Gideon would be better for the longer games and could also be an anthem effect in place of Always Watching. Sigarda can survive Kozilek's Return and Languish, and she can block an untransformed Avacyn all day. Dromoka's Command can then be a sideboard strategy against the new Cryptolith Rite sacrifice deck and Human mirrors.
Finally, I'm considering raising the curve just a tiny bit because I think this deck will play a bit slower yet stronger than traditional Human decks. I am thinking of replacing 4 Town Gossipmonger and 1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros with 3 Den Protector and 2 Bygone Bishop. Adding the Megamorph package to the main deck still maintains the synergy but adds recursion that is lacking otherwise. The Bygone Bishop is a great hit off Company and has ridiculous synergy with Tireless Tracker. Now, this is entirely dependent on how the deck plays. It might run significantly faster than I'm thinking it will and those changes won't be necessary. I'll have to test it out and see. All things considered, here's what I'm going to test out:
1x Canopy Vista
3x Evolving Wilds
1x Forest
4x Fortified Village
1x Island
8x Plains
4x Port Town
1x Prairie Stream
Creatures (27)
2x Bygone Bishop
3x Den Protector
4x Knight of the White Orchid
2x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Reflector Mage
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Thraben Inspector
4x Tireless Tracker
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spells (8)
4x Collected Company
4x Declaration in Stone
1x Bygone Bishop
2x Clip Wings
3x Dromoka's Command
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Hidden Dragonslayer
3x Negate
2x Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1x Yavimaya Coast
What do you guys think? The mana base does have some come-into-the-battlefield-tapped lands, but we have more flexibility with time in this shell. What do you all think of the list? I appreciate all your feedback!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
It seems very solid.
I'm not playing anointer but the 18 lands is working well. Knight of the white orchid lands are not a problem. I'm splashing blue so that I don't lose to languish (main deck invasive surgery). Instead of anointer of chammpions. But I think lowering the cmc of the deck is the way to go.
Why Invasive Surgery over Negate? 1CMC is better than 2CMC, but I feel that answering Chandra is also as important as Languish.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
My deck stops a three lands leaving one mana up when you only have 18 lands is much easier. But I haven't tested negate yet so it might be better I'm just happy with invasive surgery because people fall for it all the time because it's only one mana.
I'm going to mono white, and so far I have:
3 Silkwrap
3 Henweir Militia Captain
3 Eerie interlude
2 Bygone Bishop (one is in main board)
1 Anafenza (1-2 mainboard) Thinking she may work very well against mirror and Bant CoCo
1 Stasis Snare (mainboard removal is 4 declaration in stone, and 2 stasis snare)
2 Leaning towards hallowed moonlight
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also would love to hear peoples thoughts towards bygone bishop main or side.