Just one question - is Jace VP absolutely vital in this deck archetype? How is it working out for players? Alternates?
When the first SCG Open top8 rolled out I saw that Jace and immediately asked myself "why?".
Don't get me wrong, it's really strong and sometimes you are able to cast so many Collected Company that your opponent just has to scoop. BUT, those slots make the deck even more reliant on that single spell so I made my deck more tempo based and removed the Jaces (you can see the list I'm playing in the previous page). I'm fine with it as I really like the way it plays out :>
Cheers. I like your list. I had also thought about adding Lambholt Pacifist, although it would only be viable if I had a creature with 4 power, correct? Hoping they don't play a spell is rather....desperate?
Jace is how you win against the mirror, its smooths your draws and lets you replace company and commands. The biggest issue with deathmist raptor is the fact that Declartion in Stone exists. It seems like is should be good, but I don't think it is at least in my testing.
I think Deathmist Raptor's "weakness" to exile effects is overstated. It sorta sucks when Raptor is exiled, since it gets answered one-for-one when it could generate greater advantage if it's hit by a destroy effect instead, but ultimately that just represents a 1-for-1 trade. You have so many other cards that can generate 2-for-1s that you can afford to take that hit occasionally. In fact, I would posit that Raptor itself is so likely to be a 2-for-1 if it's not exiled that you make up for the times where it is just a 1-for-1 trade.
It's kinda like how sometimes Duskwatch Recruiter gets sniped before you can draw a card with it, or Tireless Tracker gets picked off before you can play a land, or whatever. When that happens you got a pretty middling rate on your exchange with their removal, but the idea is that it doesn't happen often, and that you're a virtual lock to get a 2-for-1 or better when it doesn't happen.
Has anyone thought about one-of Seasons Past in the main or side? For a deck that wants to out card advantage and out tempo the opponent, this would be one heck of a top deck. And the card selection from the graveyard would significantly depend on the match-up and the board state: 0-drop
Evolving Wilds
1-drop
Typically N/A, but possibly Dispel if it was sided in
5-drop
Need the constant threat of a flashed in super-powered angel? Archangel Avacyn FTW
Need to ruin your opponent’s arrogance? Tragic Arrogance
6-drop
Did you decide the card was worth multiples and one got countered? Seasons Past
Sided in a huge and powerful Dragon? Dragonlord Dromoka
Discovered that another angel might be worth her salt? Linvala, the Preserver
As is evident, it’s entirely possible to walk away with a fist full of cards that are primed to deal with your opponent’s board… most likely on the next turn. That’s the only downside, that pesky sorcery speed. But the card advantage generated is stupid good for this deck and can help recover on a losing board state or break through a stalled board state. Thoughts?
BG seasons pass was pretty dismal after they stabilize. Post board it gets stronger with negates though. I personally can't beat the deck for anything, but I think it may be losing some of its luster for people. I don't think it's been doing so hot in the larger tournaments.
LSV commented that BG aristocrats doesn't even really need to sideboard to beat bant as the deck was designed with bant coco in mind. That being said, if the pilot isn't strong I personally think it shows. The lines for that deck can be kind of messy if you're not used to running something like it such as rally. Saving bounding krasis to deal with a flipped Westvale or potentially large husk is important. Reflector Mage on cutthroat to buy yourself time. Lantern scout helps us here I think, as it messes with their math a bit. We have nothing that tramples over so blocks and sac the blocker blanks a bunch of the potential lifegain.
Goggles anything feels winnable to me. managorger hydra can cause a lot of headaches for them. Also negate/dispel out of the side put in a ton of work.
Weenies isn't terrible with lantern scout in our side. I have been straight up run over though. It depends on their hand and when we can stabilize the board.
Not much experience against GW tokens, my biggest concerns are the avacyns. Between clip wings and den protector we should be fine I would think. They would have to hit 2-3 anthem effects to begin profitably trading.
RB removal or UBx decks that are removal heavy are a pain but the sorcery speed of answers in the format right now shows. Aside from grasp and ultimate price everything else isn't that bad as we can play around it. I run two void grafter in the side to deal with it.
RB vampires destroyed my face last fnm, but I don't think it's a great deck for the field. He just curved out like a boss both games and was blowing up my early plays with price/grasp after t4.
No one in my meta has a competitive eldrazi or BW control deck. I don't fear these match ups and the seem pretty winnable to me on paper.
Tl;dr: I feel like I have good game against a lot of decks, aristocrats and seasons pass being the most sketchy of the ones I've played. I feel like they are both pilot dependent though. I feel soft to copious amounts of removal and flying at times.
+4 Lambholt Pacifist
+2 Tireless Tracker
+2 Clash of Wills
It's an interesting list, main deck Clash is a meta shift. G1 most people see Bant Company and cast their spells at will, knowing we don't have any counterspells. Dromoka's Command is a great card against creature decks but useless against control. I think everyone was expecting a shift to control oriented decks in NY after seeing how well they did in GP Toronto.
Pacifist/Tracker are definitely on the more aggressive creature track. Not many other decks can trade a T3 4/4 attacker in Lambholt. I think Lambholt vs. Recruiter is a tough call, but Recruiter is a lightning rod for removal and only does slightly better than Jace in that he gets hit by all relevant removal except Warping Wail. I like the call for more Trackers, the card creates a lot of pressure and card advantage.
Great call by Fabrizio on making the deck more aggressive in the face of control!
+4 Lambholt Pacifist
+2 Tireless Tracker
+2 Clash of Wills
It's an interesting list, main deck Clash is a meta shift. G1 most people see Bant Company and cast their spells at will, knowing we don't have any counterspells. Dromoka's Command is a great card against creature decks but useless against control. I think everyone was expecting a shift to control oriented decks in NY after seeing how well they did in GP Toronto.
Pacifist/Tracker are definitely on the more aggressive creature track. Not many other decks can trade a T3 4/4 attacker in Lambholt. I think Lambholt vs. Recruiter is a tough call, but Recruiter is a lightning rod for removal and only does slightly better than Jace in that he gets hit by all relevant removal except Warping Wail. I like the call for more Trackers, the card creates a lot of pressure and card advantage.
Great call by Fabrizio on making the deck more aggressive in the face of control!
I don't agree that cutting Recruiter for Pacifist makes the deck more aggressive. The 3/3 won't be able to attack in most instances on T3. If it does flip on T3, the 4/4 can be aggressive, but that's very situational (on the play, opponent has no two CMC spells or played a second tap land with no one CMC spells). So what we really is a 3/3 wall that sometimes turns into a 4/4 attacker. Then, if you do flip them, you're limiting yourself to one spell a turn to ensure you keep your beater, lest they return to the 3/3 wall status. This puts our aggression at the mercy of the opponent most of the game. Recruiter, on the other hand, is a 2/2 attacker with an abuseable card advantage ability (much better late game against control). If he flips T3, he's the 3/3 and is an accelerant for creature spells. Most of the time, we want to cast two creatures on T3 because it is very aggressive and allows us to flip Recruiter back over and use his ability the following turn to help refuel (or cast one this turn and hold up a flash creature for our opponent's turn so we don't flip it back). The card is nuts for the deck. And as mentioned, Recruiter is infinitely better late game. From Coco, which would you rather hit? It's a no-brainer. Good for Fabrizio on his record, but Recruiter is much better against control due to the card advantage engine.
You need to remember that transforming werewolves works on either players turn. If I have a Krasis, or I want to leave up counter mana (remember this deck is playing Clash of Wills) or even Dromoka's Command, then you can draw-go on your own T3 and flip the Pacifist.
This was a meta call against draw-go control decks, that don't necessarily have decent early plays as they need more setup.
It is much harder to kill a 3/3 on T2 than to kill a 2/2 on T2. Pacifist trades mana evenly for Ultimate Price or Grasp of Darkness, tri-color decks probably won't have access to double black on T2. Recruiter trades down on mana with dead weight, fiery impulse.
Flipped Lambholt can kill Kalitas.
Against Languish/Radiant Flames, you do not want to dump your hand on the board, and you do not want to flip Recruiter, you want to get as many recruits as possible out of Recruiter.
Recruiter can be very detrimental, recruiting can put cards you need (Company, Clash, D-Comm, lands) on the bottom of your deck instead of in your hand. For this reason, plus Tireless Tracker it's better to hang onto your Evolving Wilds.
Against any token deck a 3/3 wall on T2 prevents a lot of damage on early turns, against the mirror and other green decks, it prevents Advocate swings.
Surrak/Avacyn or even a +1/+1 counter on Lambholt/Krasis/Tracker turn the card on.
I think Recruiter is a great card, and I've used to gain advantage a number of times, I believe Recruiter is amazing against other midrange decks, but I've found the card lacklustre against control and mediocre against ramp (RG Goggles is rough).
You need to remember that transforming werewolves works on either players turn. If I have a Krasis, or I want to leave up counter mana (remember this deck is playing Clash of Wills) or even Dromoka's Command, then you can draw-go on your own T3 and flip the Pacifist.
This was a meta call against draw-go control decks, that don't necessarily have decent early plays as they need more setup.
It is much harder to kill a 3/3 on T2 than to kill a 2/2 on T2. Pacifist trades mana evenly for Ultimate Price or Grasp of Darkness, tri-color decks probably won't have access to double black on T2. Recruiter trades down on mana with dead weight, fiery impulse.
Flipped Lambholt can kill Kalitas.
Against Languish/Radiant Flames, you do not want to dump your hand on the board, and you do not want to flip Recruiter, you want to get as many recruits as possible out of Recruiter.
Recruiter can be very detrimental, recruiting can put cards you need (Company, Clash, D-Comm, lands) on the bottom of your deck instead of in your hand. For this reason, plus Tireless Tracker it's better to hang onto your Evolving Wilds.
Against any token deck a 3/3 wall on T2 prevents a lot of damage on early turns, against the mirror and other green decks, it prevents Advocate swings.
Surrak/Avacyn or even a +1/+1 counter on Lambholt/Krasis/Tracker turn the card on.
I think Recruiter is a great card, and I've used to gain advantage a number of times, I believe Recruiter is amazing against other midrange decks, but I've found the card lacklustre against control and mediocre against ramp (RG Goggles is rough).
Good points. My thoughts on your points...
This is actually my point though. It's not more aggressive to not attack with Pacifist on T3 because you don't have it flipped or the right condition. Granted, a 4/4 is more aggressive than a 2/2 or a 3/3, but a vanilla 4/4 is weak compared to cards like Anafenza, the Foremost, who was an amazing T3 play into T4 attack for Abzan Aggro.
Did the sideboard have Recruiters? If not, I still don't agree with the call. I may have to consider putting Pacifist in the sideboard to help against control match-ups, but I still don't like maindecking it. However, you're correct that if the meta is going to have lots of control, it may be a good mainboard card. Recruiter against control is usually pretty good late game. May not be the best T2 play, but T6 and get to replace him with a recruit activation in response to removal... Recruiter can potentially takeover the game if left alone, as he allows for repeatable card advantage.
The extra toughness is a valid point, and I guess it's the only card that fills the 3/3 for 2 void. Where's Fleecemane Lion when you need him?
Kalitas is a real threat, and probably worth a little more thought. He has given me issues in my games.
Against Languish/Radiant Flames, the deck is played differently altogether. Pacifist gives them the business if they only have Radiant Flames, but Languish wipes the board unless you can get a creature to a magical 5/5 stat (granted, which is easier with Pacifist). Recruiter hits them for 6 by our T4 whereas Pacifist hits them for 4. If they have Radiant Flames, they'd have to have a pretty good draw, as it's much less common to have all three colors by T3 for them to remove Recruiter. If they have Languish, Recruiter did more damage. Pacifist equals the amount of damage Recruiter deals by T6. So in terms of aggression and resiliency, after flips, Pacifist doesn't generate the same damage potential until T6 (at which point most controls players have dealt with the threat) and Recruiter can help enable other creature drops like Tracker while still leaving up mana for Clash or Command. Granted, this is in a vacuum. A second Pacifist accelerates the clock a lot more than a second Recruiter, so it's all situational.
This isn't really a valid point though. Recruiter helps you better understand the statistics of your deck by knowing what's at the bottom. He's giving you information. The probability that you would draw a land, Coco, Clash, D-Comm, or a creature you are looking for doesn't change after you recruit. What changes is your knowledge about the deck, so you adjust the probability by excluding these cards from the pool of available cards that can be drawn. "I saw a Coco in that recruit, and I've already played one, so my chances of hitting one are lower than if I didn't know it was at the bottom." This information is useful, not detrimental. By the same token, I could argue that Recruiter is very beneficial, because he puts cards I don't want at the bottom of my deck. For example, in a Game Day game, opponent targets to kill Recruiter, I respond with two recruit triggers. I put 5 lands on the bottom of the deck, netting 1 creature. This saved me from drawing lands for the next 5 of 6 draws. So, since by the same reasoning, I can argue Recruiter is beneficial, it's not really a valid point. He provides information and card advantage, both of which are advantageous. What actually goes on the bottom is immaterial except for the knowledge it provides you.
I don't see this as being a huge point, as Advocate fills this void most of the time.
True, but I don't like situational cards if they can be avoided.
All in all, I'll give the card some more thought for my SB. And yes, RG Goggles is very rough. Not sure how the deck should be modified for that matchup... but then, I don't get to playtest much.
Recruiter is much much better than Pacifist against control decks and it's not particularly close. We normally beat control decks by getting in for incidental damage with the creatures in our deck that are more or less vanilla (Krasis after it flashes in, Mage after it bounces something or if we just run it out as a 2/3 because our opponent isn't playing creatures), forcing them to answer these guys or just die to them over the first 6-7 turns of the game -- and then we play out our value guys like Duskwatch Recruiter and Tireless Tracker and the planeswalkers and ride them to the win. Pacifist can't chip shot unless we get lucky and she flips, and she doesn't generate card advantage, so she's a pretty awful fit against control decks.
Pacifist's only good thing going for her is that she has a fairly absurd rate for the format -- a 3/3 for 2 is enormous, brickwalling every 1-2 drop in the format and a lot of 3-drops -- which makes her powerful against aggressive decks, where her great rate lets us buy time to get our mana online with a reasonable life total and board state.
I agree with DRay, I don't think Pacifist is a good fit for the maindeck. I ran her in the sideboard the week of the Pro Tour because Wx Humans was the most popular deck in my area by far (before deciding on Hidden Dragonslayer for the weekend and overhauling the sideboard post-PT), and she was alright there. I'm honestly mystified as to the purpose of the card in the maindeck at this point... Humans is on the decline and so many decks in the format are midrange or control decks, where Recruiter is much better.
I don't think that the BG aristocrats matchup is that poor if you play reflector Mage and deathmist raptor. Raptor holds down the ground and the threat of reflected Mage is really scary for some one thinking about flipping westvale Abby. I don't think it's favrable but it's definatly not a bye. Avacyn is also very good is this matchup. Jace also fogs a husk it'd you block then flip. I just don't see what they have on us. The fact that they don't have any sweepers should make it favrable for us. Dramokas command is also very strong.
The only weakness of our deck is the mana base and decks that punishing us for stumbling. Has anyone trying going down to two colors and had any succes with it?
I honestly have found Seasons past to be a bye, but aristocrats while grindy isn't as bad as people make it. I think if you play it efficiently, you can win. I also think Eldrazi Displacer is definitely worth considering. The Bazzar of Moxen tournament had several flavors of bant from last week. I will post the list I am currently on in a bit.
Went 4-2 in swiss at PPTQ, making 15th out of about 50 with Bant splashing colorless for Eldrazi Displacer. Will post my list later. Lost to 4C Rites (or possibly Golgari Rites, not 100% sure) and mono white humans. Rites was not an auto lose, but G1 he played Company into two Zulaport Cuthroats and managed to keep the board super gummed up. G2, I got stuck on lands. Finally hit my 4th land, played Collected Company, and put six lands on the bottom of my library. Top decked another Company, but had to Reflector Mage his Ormendahl that the first company didn't do anything for. Tried to stall, still not drawing lands, he built his board up into another Ormendahl, Companied again, this time got five lands and a non-interactive creature. Extended my hand (as I was at 2 life). Despite being at 4 lands, I managed to get across 30 points of damage. I forced him into bad trades and managed to hold my own. But three hits with Ormendahl will do just about anyone in...
Mono white humans, he curved out G1, wasn't able to interact profitably. G2, I stalled him. It was still a grindy game due to having to play around Gryff's Boon (Tragic Arrogance and Dromoka's Command helped out a lot). Company into Lantern Scout and he scooped. G3... I mulled to 5 and got stuck on lands. I'm trying to decide if my opening hand was worth keeping: Yavimaya's Coast x2, Sylvan Advocate x2, Lambholt Pacifist x2, and another card I don't remember. Mull to 6 yielded one Yavimaya's Coast with no two-drops, mull to 5 yielded one Yavimaya's Coast and a two-drop. Not sure why the deck wanted me to have pain lands against an aggro match-up... In hindsight, the first 7 was probably keepable, but I was concerned about taking pain for each creature, knowing how grindy the match-up can be and he was on the play.
Beat BG Seasons Past 2-0, Grixis Control 2-1, Bant Mirror 2-1 (subtheme of spirits with Rattlechains and Bygone Bishop), and Traditional Ramp 2-0.
Whats everyones thought on ramp matchup? The deck is on the uptick and i lost to it in top 4 in a pptq sunday.
I had 2 surraks in my board but feel like they arent that great.
Looking for other options. Im currently on the bant with displacer version.
Whats everyones thought on ramp matchup? The deck is on the uptick and i lost to it in top 4 in a pptq sunday.
I had 2 surraks in my board but feel like they arent that great.
Looking for other options. Im currently on the bant with displacer version.
Lambholt Pacifist did work for me against Ramp. I happened to have it opening hand both games, and if they don't have a T2 or T3 play, Pacifist begins beating face. If they happen to have a play, you can pass your turn so it'll flip holding up mana to flash in Krasis, or you can cast Dromoka's Command on your turn to give it a counter and start beating face that way. A 4/4 on T3 is no joke when they're just ramping. I even managed to kill him by the time he got six mana while he Jadda Offshoot gaining him life. It's very aggressive in that matchup.
For the record, since I was saying earlier I didn't like Pacifist, I decided to main deck 2 Pacifists, keeping all 4 Duskwatch Recruiters. She technically took the place of Jace, whom I traded away before the price begins to drop as he nears rotation. I didn't have room in the board for more, but I may be able to add them now that I know what board cards are flex spots. It's definitely not the best late game card, but it's awesome against humans and ramp early game and worth 4 in the 75 if there's room in the SB, but not at the expense of Recruiter who is amazing almost every matchup and at almost all points of the game.
Just went 7-1 at my local GPT. I was expecting a lot of control decks and I did play against control almost every round and just crushed them every time. I'm running Deathmist Raptor with is morph buddy's Den Protector and Stratus Dancer. The ability that the deck has to chip damage in and not fall behind on card advantage I think gives us a very good match up against control.
Does anyone else have a control heavy metal or is it just me? I'm practicing for GP Minneapolis and I'm trying to figure the meta out.
When the first SCG Open top8 rolled out I saw that Jace and immediately asked myself "why?".
Don't get me wrong, it's really strong and sometimes you are able to cast so many Collected Company that your opponent just has to scoop. BUT, those slots make the deck even more reliant on that single spell so I made my deck more tempo based and removed the Jaces (you can see the list I'm playing in the previous page). I'm fine with it as I really like the way it plays out :>
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Without Jace, the deck becomes less consistent, like it or not, it is crucial.
It's kinda like how sometimes Duskwatch Recruiter gets sniped before you can draw a card with it, or Tireless Tracker gets picked off before you can play a land, or whatever. When that happens you got a pretty middling rate on your exchange with their removal, but the idea is that it doesn't happen often, and that you're a virtual lock to get a 2-for-1 or better when it doesn't happen.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
0-drop
Evolving Wilds
1-drop
Typically N/A, but possibly Dispel if it was sided in
2-drop
Want to beat face? Sylvan Advocate
Need more card advantage? Duskwatch Recruiter
Having difficulty with a pesky enchantment or need removal in a pinch? Dromoka's Command
Sided in Control? Negate
Need premium removal that was sided in? Declaration in Stone
Need a Planeswalker and more companies? Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3-drop
Need more card advantage? Tireless Tracker (works well with the returned Evolving Wilds too!)
Need tempo advantage? Bounding Krasis or Reflector Mage
Need a land and a walker? Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4-drop
Will almost always be Collected Company, with Ojutai's Command in a very distant second.
5-drop
Need the constant threat of a flashed in super-powered angel? Archangel Avacyn FTW
Need to ruin your opponent’s arrogance? Tragic Arrogance
6-drop
Did you decide the card was worth multiples and one got countered? Seasons Past
Sided in a huge and powerful Dragon? Dragonlord Dromoka
Discovered that another angel might be worth her salt? Linvala, the Preserver
As is evident, it’s entirely possible to walk away with a fist full of cards that are primed to deal with your opponent’s board… most likely on the next turn. That’s the only downside, that pesky sorcery speed. But the card advantage generated is stupid good for this deck and can help recover on a losing board state or break through a stalled board state. Thoughts?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=494025 ^^^^ My Trade Thread^^^^
LSV commented that BG aristocrats doesn't even really need to sideboard to beat bant as the deck was designed with bant coco in mind. That being said, if the pilot isn't strong I personally think it shows. The lines for that deck can be kind of messy if you're not used to running something like it such as rally. Saving bounding krasis to deal with a flipped Westvale or potentially large husk is important. Reflector Mage on cutthroat to buy yourself time. Lantern scout helps us here I think, as it messes with their math a bit. We have nothing that tramples over so blocks and sac the blocker blanks a bunch of the potential lifegain.
Goggles anything feels winnable to me. managorger hydra can cause a lot of headaches for them. Also negate/dispel out of the side put in a ton of work.
Weenies isn't terrible with lantern scout in our side. I have been straight up run over though. It depends on their hand and when we can stabilize the board.
Not much experience against GW tokens, my biggest concerns are the avacyns. Between clip wings and den protector we should be fine I would think. They would have to hit 2-3 anthem effects to begin profitably trading.
RB removal or UBx decks that are removal heavy are a pain but the sorcery speed of answers in the format right now shows. Aside from grasp and ultimate price everything else isn't that bad as we can play around it. I run two void grafter in the side to deal with it.
RB vampires destroyed my face last fnm, but I don't think it's a great deck for the field. He just curved out like a boss both games and was blowing up my early plays with price/grasp after t4.
No one in my meta has a competitive eldrazi or BW control deck. I don't fear these match ups and the seem pretty winnable to me on paper.
Tl;dr: I feel like I have good game against a lot of decks, aristocrats and seasons pass being the most sketchy of the ones I've played. I feel like they are both pilot dependent though. I feel soft to copious amounts of removal and flying at times.
GB Aristocrats. We're a bye for them.
I think we're probably 45/55 vs GW Tokens, winnable but not what we want to be dealing with either. Depends on how well we tune to beat GW Tokens.
Everything else varies from easy to even and I enjoy them all. Slogging through Aristocrats or Tokens is the worst though.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/412900#paper
-2 Jace
-2 DComm
-4 Duskwatch Recruiter
+4 Lambholt Pacifist
+2 Tireless Tracker
+2 Clash of Wills
It's an interesting list, main deck Clash is a meta shift. G1 most people see Bant Company and cast their spells at will, knowing we don't have any counterspells. Dromoka's Command is a great card against creature decks but useless against control. I think everyone was expecting a shift to control oriented decks in NY after seeing how well they did in GP Toronto.
Pacifist/Tracker are definitely on the more aggressive creature track. Not many other decks can trade a T3 4/4 attacker in Lambholt. I think Lambholt vs. Recruiter is a tough call, but Recruiter is a lightning rod for removal and only does slightly better than Jace in that he gets hit by all relevant removal except Warping Wail. I like the call for more Trackers, the card creates a lot of pressure and card advantage.
Great call by Fabrizio on making the deck more aggressive in the face of control!
I don't agree that cutting Recruiter for Pacifist makes the deck more aggressive. The 3/3 won't be able to attack in most instances on T3. If it does flip on T3, the 4/4 can be aggressive, but that's very situational (on the play, opponent has no two CMC spells or played a second tap land with no one CMC spells). So what we really is a 3/3 wall that sometimes turns into a 4/4 attacker. Then, if you do flip them, you're limiting yourself to one spell a turn to ensure you keep your beater, lest they return to the 3/3 wall status. This puts our aggression at the mercy of the opponent most of the game. Recruiter, on the other hand, is a 2/2 attacker with an abuseable card advantage ability (much better late game against control). If he flips T3, he's the 3/3 and is an accelerant for creature spells. Most of the time, we want to cast two creatures on T3 because it is very aggressive and allows us to flip Recruiter back over and use his ability the following turn to help refuel (or cast one this turn and hold up a flash creature for our opponent's turn so we don't flip it back). The card is nuts for the deck. And as mentioned, Recruiter is infinitely better late game. From Coco, which would you rather hit? It's a no-brainer. Good for Fabrizio on his record, but Recruiter is much better against control due to the card advantage engine.
I think Recruiter is a great card, and I've used to gain advantage a number of times, I believe Recruiter is amazing against other midrange decks, but I've found the card lacklustre against control and mediocre against ramp (RG Goggles is rough).
Good points. My thoughts on your points...
Pacifist's only good thing going for her is that she has a fairly absurd rate for the format -- a 3/3 for 2 is enormous, brickwalling every 1-2 drop in the format and a lot of 3-drops -- which makes her powerful against aggressive decks, where her great rate lets us buy time to get our mana online with a reasonable life total and board state.
I agree with DRay, I don't think Pacifist is a good fit for the maindeck. I ran her in the sideboard the week of the Pro Tour because Wx Humans was the most popular deck in my area by far (before deciding on Hidden Dragonslayer for the weekend and overhauling the sideboard post-PT), and she was alright there. I'm honestly mystified as to the purpose of the card in the maindeck at this point... Humans is on the decline and so many decks in the format are midrange or control decks, where Recruiter is much better.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
The only weakness of our deck is the mana base and decks that punishing us for stumbling. Has anyone trying going down to two colors and had any succes with it?
Mono white humans, he curved out G1, wasn't able to interact profitably. G2, I stalled him. It was still a grindy game due to having to play around Gryff's Boon (Tragic Arrogance and Dromoka's Command helped out a lot). Company into Lantern Scout and he scooped. G3... I mulled to 5 and got stuck on lands. I'm trying to decide if my opening hand was worth keeping: Yavimaya's Coast x2, Sylvan Advocate x2, Lambholt Pacifist x2, and another card I don't remember. Mull to 6 yielded one Yavimaya's Coast with no two-drops, mull to 5 yielded one Yavimaya's Coast and a two-drop. Not sure why the deck wanted me to have pain lands against an aggro match-up... In hindsight, the first 7 was probably keepable, but I was concerned about taking pain for each creature, knowing how grindy the match-up can be and he was on the play.
Beat BG Seasons Past 2-0, Grixis Control 2-1, Bant Mirror 2-1 (subtheme of spirits with Rattlechains and Bygone Bishop), and Traditional Ramp 2-0.
I had 2 surraks in my board but feel like they arent that great.
Looking for other options. Im currently on the bant with displacer version.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Lambholt Pacifist did work for me against Ramp. I happened to have it opening hand both games, and if they don't have a T2 or T3 play, Pacifist begins beating face. If they happen to have a play, you can pass your turn so it'll flip holding up mana to flash in Krasis, or you can cast Dromoka's Command on your turn to give it a counter and start beating face that way. A 4/4 on T3 is no joke when they're just ramping. I even managed to kill him by the time he got six mana while he Jadda Offshoot gaining him life. It's very aggressive in that matchup.
For the record, since I was saying earlier I didn't like Pacifist, I decided to main deck 2 Pacifists, keeping all 4 Duskwatch Recruiters. She technically took the place of Jace, whom I traded away before the price begins to drop as he nears rotation. I didn't have room in the board for more, but I may be able to add them now that I know what board cards are flex spots. It's definitely not the best late game card, but it's awesome against humans and ramp early game and worth 4 in the 75 if there's room in the SB, but not at the expense of Recruiter who is amazing almost every matchup and at almost all points of the game.
Does anyone else have a control heavy metal or is it just me? I'm practicing for GP Minneapolis and I'm trying to figure the meta out.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
3 Bounding Krasis
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Reflector Mage
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Collected Company
4 Dromoka's Command
1 Ojutai's Command
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Prairie Stream
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Wastes
2 Clip Wings
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Tragic Arrogance
1 Hidden Dragonslayer
1 Vile Redeemer
This is what i played
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW