The only time I’ve been matched up against G/W Tokens since it won PTSOI; I was playing Bant CoCo instead of G/R Ramp that night due to I wasn’t on speaking terms with my G/R Ramp deck. Needless to say I did win that match :p.
As for the matchup of G/W Tokens and G/R Ramp; I think it is going to matter as to which version of Ramp you are running. But both Frank and BBD from Channelfireball feel that it is a bad matchup for R/G Goggles. Since the Goggles version of the deck has trouble dealing with Planewalkers (none of the burn spells can hit Planewalkers and they only run 4 creatures and 2 Chandra’s main).
For the more creature heavy versions of G/R Ramp; I don’t know. I do feel that they have a better game against Tokens compared to the Goggles version and if they are running DLA then that is a plus since he can be hard for them to remove since they don’t main deck a lot of removal (most lists are running 1 snare MD) and only have Avacyn and any tokens from the Hangarback that can fly. Plus the 5 damage ETB trigger can be directed towards or split between Nissa or Gideon to remove or lower their loyalty.
The token decks also don’t apply a lot of pressure early which allows G/R Ramp to do their only thing; which is what it wants to do and if G/R Ramp can be at 7 lands by turn 5 and have a threat; then the match I feel is very much in the Ramp Deck’s favor. Since their best start is Inspector to Advocate to Nissa then Gideon the 1st 4 turns and most of the time they make a plant on turn 3 with Nissa and then use her minus on turn 4 after they make a token on turn 4 with Gideon. So that way on turn 5 they can create an emblem with Gideon (though some have just attacked turn 4 with him).
Looking at the matchup for the version of ramp running Offshoots and Renewals MD; I feel that it would be in the Ramp’s deck favor. The offshoots and Advocates can stall the board until turn 4 and gain the Ramp player anywhere from 3 to 6 life by turn 4; which will also buy them time to get WB and Ulamog online.
Psy
Private Mod Note
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
What a weird list, but there's something intriguing about it.
This is a recruiter ramp deck that was featured on Sam Black's premium SCG video. It's an interesting list but it's weak against human. I would love to see what it was up against in the open.
Hi Guys, I took second* at the recent SCG standard classic. I say second because i conceded to the guy in the finals, even though the matchup i feel is highly favorable. Granted, I had never played ramp before, nor had i played any of this standard. I posted a tourny report here, I'm going to edit some of the details here because I want to make sure it's appropriate before I post it, and a link to my list on scg.
Tourny report: Warning, I did type this at midnight on an ipad, lot of spelling and grammar mistakes
Alright, so if I don't write this down now, I'll probably forget. For SCG Milwaukee, I had my heart set on playing burn in the legacy classic, until I went 2-1 at legacy fnm.... So that night as I debated playing ramp in standard, I set my alarm extra early so I could get to the site with time to put together the deck. As I woke up at 6:00 I said **** it I'll play burn, knowing the legacy classic started a half hour later than the standard I slept for another half hour. I picked up my friend and we reminisced his top 8's with RG monsters on the car ride there, and that's when I decided to play ramp. I borrowed some cards from another friend who I knew played ramp last standard and picked up others from the SCG booth. As I was looking at lists, I saw the 8-1 list from pro tour but I made the changes of -3 endless one, -1 Nissa's renewal for +1 kozilek +2 elvish visionary +1 Hedron Archive. And let me tell you, kozilek is the best threat this deck has, he single handedly won me multiple matches and made my worst matchup (BG seasons past) almost unloseable.
Round 1 BW midrange
This is the only round I lose. Game 1 I don't mulligan a hand with zero ramp and I get steam rolled by Hedron crawler Gideon's and avacyns If I had mulled I don't think I could lose that game. Game two I'm off to a much faster start. He spends his turns making me discard, but I have too many threats this game. And the search off of sanctums makes it hard to deal with all of my threats as I exile his lands with world breakers and ulamogs. Game 3 all I played was ramp spells, hitting 15 lands, and I never see a threat, while all he does is draw cards off of ob nix.
0-1
Round 2 UR goggles
Game one I once again see no ramp and mull to six. I see no ramp that game and expect to get blown out when I see he's on thing in the ice.dec thinking its a million times faster, then I realize that no decks are anywhere near as powerful as the ramp deck I brought, and he struggles to flip double thing in the ice until the last turns, where I scoop up my cards. Game 2 I get off to a controlling start by warping wailing his Jace. He has no other threats, and watching him cast tormenting voice and magmatic insight without goggles makes me laugh. Game three was my favorite because every time he did something I'd have the answer, he got out a thing in the ice, and on my turn 4 I draw world break.... Thinking to myself, "I'll laugh when he slams goggles on his five. Which he does, I exile his goggles and pass. His turn he hard casts the madness lighting bolt, flips his TITI and attacks me down to ten. I untapped, cast ulamog, exiling his horror and man land. He casts goggles. I swing for 10 with ulamog and exile goggles with the bounced world breaker and he scoops them up.
1-1
Round 3 Seasons Past
Seasons past, the deck I didn't want to face at all today. Game one my opponent makes some very questionable plays, as in turn five he dark petitions with spell mastery, but he gets transgress the mind over infinite obliteration? After that he wised up and started playing better, but I had hope due to his lack of knowledge with his own deck. I lost after he did figure out he was suppose to infinite obliterate me and then got it back with seasons past. Game two he turn 3 obliterates my world breakers, but he finds literally no threats as my ulamog is able to eat away at his lands and search for kozilek. If kozilek can hit the field in this matchup you can't lose, even as a one of you have search of sanctums and dig through Chandra. Game three I warping wail his seasons past and he concedes when he realizes he has no outs.
Round 4 Seasons Past
This round I play against a friend who I have never beaten in REL tournament play. I had a strong feeling that he was on seasons past, and my best friend confirms my suspicions. Knowing this is a terrible matchup and he's a far better player than my last opponent I sit down thinking to myself that I'm just here to have fun and I can probably still play for top 32, we get underway. Game one he does what he does and obliterates my world breakers on turn three, makes me discard my hand and I quickly scoop them up and go to game two, I bring in the warping wails and hope for the best. Game two is kind of fuzzy. I know he got rid of my world breakers but, I think I was able to get off a warping wail to counter his second obliteration. I Think I got off kozilek, that drew me a bunch of cards, and searched for ulamog. We get on to game 3. Game three he never hits an obliteration, but he does manage to get off a few discard spells, taking a world breaker, atarka, Nissa's renewal, and my Hedron archive. He however leaves me with my warping wail in hand. The game comes down to me -1 Chandra to take care of his board. (His Nissa's plant tokens) then on his turn he activates his hissing quagmire, and puts a +1/+1 counter on it using Nissa, and swings at Chandra. I make a 1/1 scion with warping wail to bloc, knowing that if I don't draw off Chandra and hit a fatty I probably don't win. For my turn I have three cards in hand, but I have to play a land otherwise if I draw a ten drop I won't be able to cast it. So I draw my three cards off of Chandra and peel kozilek. As always I stack my triggers so that I draw first, then search for ulamog off of sanctum. The game ends when his last card in hand is seasons past and I show him my second warping wail.
3-1
Round 5 Ramp Mirror
Game one I punt hard when I have the chance to either cast world breaker or ulamog. I got greedy and castes ulamog, getting rid of two lands, but he sandbags his second shrine and then ulamogs me. And I have no way to get rid of it. Game two I get off to a much faster start, and I drop kozilek as soon as I have ten mana. Game 3 is one for the books as he gets an early board presence with tireless tracker and Chandra. He hits me down to ten and then I cast kozilek. My hand at that point was kozilek ulamog, ulamog. I cast kozilek because if he does have ulamog, then I can't win. Off the kozilek draws I hit Chandra, so then I have a six, and then I proceed to search up world breaker off of sanctum. I discard a land and pass turn. I'm at ten, he pluses Chandra, then taps out for a second copy, which I pitch my own Chandra to because I don't feel like dying. He attacks with his two tokens and he hits me down to 7. I untapped and cast ulamog to exile his Chandra and tireless tracker, he the. Draws for turn and extends his hand.
4-1
Round 6 GW tokens
This is by far the worst match of magic I played all weekend. Not that I played poorly, but that we both got unlucky. My opponent gets a game one loss for a deck error, game two he mulls to five and me to six. I figure off a draw and scry that I can find a forest to go with my 3 lands, but never do. Game three my opponent gets stuck on three lands, and as soon as he gets his second tapped white source, I have the world breakers to get rid of it.
5-1
Round 7 I.D.
This is where things got a little sketchy, because I'm in 10th place and my opponent is in 9th, but since Sam black is 5-0-1 he plays it out for seed. My opponent asks if I would like to draw and I at this point would rather go home and be with my girlfriend who I said I'd be over by 6... So I gladly draw because I don't care what happens. And I was supposed to be at my girlfriends between 4-6
5-1-1
The top 8 announcement comes and 1st thru 6th was everyone I expected. But then comes 7th and it was a 16 pointer I didn't expect, which meant that I couldn't top. Them they say that 8th place come over by .05%..... And then they said my name... I somehow jumped my last round opponent, and I felt super guilty.
Top 8 Sam Black GW Tokens
This is probably the best match I've played in my life, and the one I'll always remember. Game 1 I get off to an early start with an elvish vision are on turn two. He passes on turn three and I cast a pilgrimage. At my end of turn he casts secure for two and passes. He attacks and and my elf trades with a token, sending me to 19. He casts Gideon post combat to make a token and passes, I use my turn to explode some vegetation, he makes an emblem with Gideon and attacks me down to 14. He passes turn with 5 mana up, and on my turn I have 8 lands in play and I go deep into the tank. I have in my hand Kozileks return, Chandra, world breaker, and Nissa's renewal. I almost over think the situation, because I'm expecting an avacyn. So my thought process goes to, maybe I should cast Chandra, neg 3 her to chase out the avacyn so I can cast Kozileks return in response to the angel clearing one token and setting up for a full board clear the following turn with flashing it back after casting world breaker. Then I come to my senses that if I just gain life off of renewal, I can still wipe away his one token with Kozileks return and it be impossible for him to deal me lethal no matter what. Now at this point some of you are saying how can he do both with only 8 lands, since return costs three and renewal costs 6. And some of you already realize that I can use shrine as two mana towards the return. A lot of people, including Sam black didn't realize that shrine reads colorless spells and not just eldrazi. So when he EoT secured the waste for lethal, I completely lost my poker face as it went from, "this is the best game I've magic I've ever participated in" to "I can't lose game 1" as he casted the secure I tapped my mountain and Shrine and said after that resolves Kozileks return. And Sam black, who I has the most straight face, was stunned and broke silence to say "oh wow" the whole team standing behind me and Sam blacks friend Justin Cohen and a judge were stunned. My following turn I top decked ulamog and wiped his board. And we went to game 2. Game two he curved perfectly and I died before I could cast a spell. Game three he gets stuck on two lands and I eat them with world breakers and he concedes when I eat his last land with a second world breaker and flash back Kozileks return to leave him with zero permanents in play. He shakes my hand and we part ways.
6-1-1
Top 4 GW CoCo humans
This guys deck was sick, and it is probably the second best deck in the field. If I weren't playing ramp I would play this guys deck, it is the best coco deck I've scene. Being seed 7 and having to be on the draw every match was rough, but I never lost game 1. Game one he builds up a board of creatures while my offshoot is gaining me life, he almost has me dead but I'm able to tAke out a tireless tracker and a knight of the WO with atarka. I chump with offshoot and then cast world breaker getting rid of always watching and searching up ulamog to win the game. Game two I stabilize with ulamog but lose to a topdeckd declaration in stone. Game three I finally have my "I win button" in the form of Chandra. I have two offshoots gaining me life, but on turn 5 I use them to chump and I go to six. I untapped and slam Chandra neg 4ing her to clear his entire board. The following turn I gain seven life off of renewal and I can tell this game is sealed as I cast kozilek to search up ulamog to get rid of his last creatures. He wasn't able to cast anything else the rest of the game.
7-1-1
I see that the split is 3000 tickets, and that for the finals since my opponent is the 8th seed I would actually be on the play. But at this point all I really want to do is go see the lady friend since we hadn't really seen each other since March. So when my opponent de lines the split, I concede on the spot. Looking at his deck list there no chance I wouldn't have won. He's far to slow and matches up poorly to ulamog, and can't beat kozilek. But I'm happy i just free rolled modern tron off of SCG, made some cash. And got to see the girlfriend
Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend.
Aaron for letting me borrow the last cards I needed
Tony for the food run, the water, and for calling the lady friend and telling her I was going to be late as I played top 4
Marshall for stealing the 8 forests I needed from the draft box, and sitting next to me to see the Sam black match
Dan for letting me use his spell ground playmat, encouraging me not to concede in top 4, telling me not to play legacy burn, and for when hysterically lost it laughing when I blew Sam black out with that Kozileks return.
Casey for not getting to salty at me when I luck sacked him. I just had a horse shoe this weekend
Hi Guys, I took second* at the recent SCG standard classic. I say second because i conceded to the guy in the finals, even though the matchup i feel is highly favorable. Granted, I had never played ramp before, nor had i played any of this standard. I posted a tourny report here, I'm going to edit some of the details here because I want to make sure it's appropriate before I post it, and a link to my list on scg.
Tourny report: Warning, I did type this at midnight on an ipad, lot of spelling and grammar mistakes
Alright, so if I don't write this down now, I'll probably forget. For SCG Milwaukee, I had my heart set on playing burn in the legacy classic, until I went 2-1 at legacy fnm.... So that night as I debated playing ramp in standard, I set my alarm extra early so I could get to the site with time to put together the deck. As I woke up at 6:00 I said **** it I'll play burn, knowing the legacy classic started a half hour later than the standard I slept for another half hour. I picked up my friend and we reminisced his top 8's with RG monsters on the car ride there, and that's when I decided to play ramp. I borrowed some cards from another friend who I knew played ramp last standard and picked up others from the SCG booth. As I was looking at lists, I saw the 8-1 list from pro tour but I made the changes of -3 endless one, -1 Nissa's renewal for +1 kozilek +2 elvish visionary +1 Hedron Archive. And let me tell you, kozilek is the best threat this deck has, he single handedly won me multiple matches and made my worst matchup (BG seasons past) almost unloseable.
Round 1 BW midrange
This is the only round I lose. Game 1 I don't mulligan a hand with zero ramp and I get steam rolled by Hedron crawler Gideon's and avacyns If I had mulled I don't think I could lose that game. Game two I'm off to a much faster start. He spends his turns making me discard, but I have too many threats this game. And the search off of sanctums makes it hard to deal with all of my threats as I exile his lands with world breakers and ulamogs. Game 3 all I played was ramp spells, hitting 15 lands, and I never see a threat, while all he does is draw cards off of ob nix.
0-1
Round 2 UR goggles
Game one I once again see no ramp and mull to six. I see no ramp that game and expect to get blown out when I see he's on thing in the ice.dec thinking its a million times faster, then I realize that no decks are anywhere near as powerful as the ramp deck I brought, and he struggles to flip double thing in the ice until the last turns, where I scoop up my cards. Game 2 I get off to a controlling start by warping wailing his Jace. He has no other threats, and watching him cast tormenting voice and magmatic insight without goggles makes me laugh. Game three was my favorite because every time he did something I'd have the answer, he got out a thing in the ice, and on my turn 4 I draw world break.... Thinking to myself, "I'll laugh when he slams goggles on his five. Which he does, I exile his goggles and pass. His turn he hard casts the madness lighting bolt, flips his TITI and attacks me down to ten. I untapped, cast ulamog, exiling his horror and man land. He casts goggles. I swing for 10 with ulamog and exile goggles with the bounced world breaker and he scoops them up.
1-1
Round 3 Seasons Past
Seasons past, the deck I didn't want to face at all today. Game one my opponent makes some very questionable plays, as in turn five he dark petitions with spell mastery, but he gets transgress the mind over infinite obliteration? After that he wised up and started playing better, but I had hope due to his lack of knowledge with his own deck. I lost after he did figure out he was suppose to infinite obliterate me and then got it back with seasons past. Game two he turn 3 obliterates my world breakers, but he finds literally no threats as my ulamog is able to eat away at his lands and search for kozilek. If kozilek can hit the field in this matchup you can't lose, even as a one of you have search of sanctums and dig through Chandra. Game three I warping wail his seasons past and he concedes when he realizes he has no outs.
Round 4 Seasons Past
This round I play against a friend who I have never beaten in REL tournament play. I had a strong feeling that he was on seasons past, and my best friend confirms my suspicions. Knowing this is a terrible matchup and he's a far better player than my last opponent I sit down thinking to myself that I'm just here to have fun and I can probably still play for top 32, we get underway. Game one he does what he does and obliterates my world breakers on turn three, makes me discard my hand and I quickly scoop them up and go to game two, I bring in the warping wails and hope for the best. Game two is kind of fuzzy. I know he got rid of my world breakers but, I think I was able to get off a warping wail to counter his second obliteration. I Think I got off kozilek, that drew me a bunch of cards, and searched for ulamog. We get on to game 3. Game three he never hits an obliteration, but he does manage to get off a few discard spells, taking a world breaker, atarka, Nissa's renewal, and my Hedron archive. He however leaves me with my warping wail in hand. The game comes down to me -1 Chandra to take care of his board. (His Nissa's plant tokens) then on his turn he activates his hissing quagmire, and puts a +1/+1 counter on it using Nissa, and swings at Chandra. I make a 1/1 scion with warping wail to bloc, knowing that if I don't draw off Chandra and hit a fatty I probably don't win. For my turn I have three cards in hand, but I have to play a land otherwise if I draw a ten drop I won't be able to cast it. So I draw my three cards off of Chandra and peel kozilek. As always I stack my triggers so that I draw first, then search for ulamog off of sanctum. The game ends when his last card in hand is seasons past and I show him my second warping wail.
3-1
Round 5 Ramp Mirror
Game one I punt hard when I have the chance to either cast world breaker or ulamog. I got greedy and castes ulamog, getting rid of two lands, but he sandbags his second shrine and then ulamogs me. And I have no way to get rid of it. Game two I get off to a much faster start, and I drop kozilek as soon as I have ten mana. Game 3 is one for the books as he gets an early board presence with tireless tracker and Chandra. He hits me down to ten and then I cast kozilek. My hand at that point was kozilek ulamog, ulamog. I cast kozilek because if he does have ulamog, then I can't win. Off the kozilek draws I hit Chandra, so then I have a six, and then I proceed to search up world breaker off of sanctum. I discard a land and pass turn. I'm at ten, he pluses Chandra, then taps out for a second copy, which I pitch my own Chandra to because I don't feel like dying. He attacks with his two tokens and he hits me down to 7. I untapped and cast ulamog to exile his Chandra and tireless tracker, he the. Draws for turn and extends his hand.
4-1
Round 6 GW tokens
This is by far the worst match of magic I played all weekend. Not that I played poorly, but that we both got unlucky. My opponent gets a game one loss for a deck error, game two he mulls to five and me to six. I figure off a draw and scry that I can find a forest to go with my 3 lands, but never do. Game three my opponent gets stuck on three lands, and as soon as he gets his second tapped white source, I have the world breakers to get rid of it.
5-1
Round 7 I.D.
This is where things got a little sketchy, because I'm in 10th place and my opponent is in 9th, but since Sam black is 5-0-1 he plays it out for seed. My opponent asks if I would like to draw and I at this point would rather go home and be with my girlfriend who I said I'd be over by 6... So I gladly draw because I don't care what happens. And I was supposed to be at my girlfriends between 4-6
5-1-1
The top 8 announcement comes and 1st thru 6th was everyone I expected. But then comes 7th and it was a 16 pointer I didn't expect, which meant that I couldn't top. Them they say that 8th place come over by .05%..... And then they said my name... I somehow jumped my last round opponent, and I felt super guilty.
Top 8 Sam Black GW Tokens
This is probably the best match I've played in my life, and the one I'll always remember. Game 1 I get off to an early start with an elvish vision are on turn two. He passes on turn three and I cast a pilgrimage. At my end of turn he casts secure for two and passes. He attacks and and my elf trades with a token, sending me to 19. He casts Gideon post combat to make a token and passes, I use my turn to explode some vegetation, he makes an emblem with Gideon and attacks me down to 14. He passes turn with 5 mana up, and on my turn I have 8 lands in play and I go deep into the tank. I have in my hand Kozileks return, Chandra, world breaker, and Nissa's renewal. I almost over think the situation, because I'm expecting an avacyn. So my thought process goes to, maybe I should cast Chandra, neg 3 her to chase out the avacyn so I can cast Kozileks return in response to the angel clearing one token and setting up for a full board clear the following turn with flashing it back after casting world breaker. Then I come to my senses that if I just gain life off of renewal, I can still wipe away his one token with Kozileks return and it be impossible for him to deal me lethal no matter what. Now at this point some of you are saying how can he do both with only 8 lands, since return costs three and renewal costs 6. And some of you already realize that I can use shrine as two mana towards the return. A lot of people, including Sam black didn't realize that shrine reads colorless spells and not just eldrazi. So when he EoT secured the waste for lethal, I completely lost my poker face as it went from, "this is the best game I've magic I've ever participated in" to "I can't lose game 1" as he casted the secure I tapped my mountain and Shrine and said after that resolves Kozileks return. And Sam black, who I has the most straight face, was stunned and broke silence to say "oh wow" the whole team standing behind me and Sam blacks friend Justin Cohen and a judge were stunned. My following turn I top decked ulamog and wiped his board. And we went to game 2. Game two he curved perfectly and I died before I could cast a spell. Game three he gets stuck on two lands and I eat them with world breakers and he concedes when I eat his last land with a second world breaker and flash back Kozileks return to leave him with zero permanents in play. He shakes my hand and we part ways.
6-1-1
Top 4 GW CoCo humans
This guys deck was sick, and it is probably the second best deck in the field. If I weren't playing ramp I would play this guys deck, it is the best coco deck I've scene. Being seed 7 and having to be on the draw every match was rough, but I never lost game 1. Game one he builds up a board of creatures while my offshoot is gaining me life, he almost has me dead but I'm able to tAke out a tireless tracker and a knight of the WO with atarka. I chump with offshoot and then cast world breaker getting rid of always watching and searching up ulamog to win the game. Game two I stabilize with ulamog but lose to a topdeckd declaration in stone. Game three I finally have my "I win button" in the form of Chandra. I have two offshoots gaining me life, but on turn 5 I use them to chump and I go to six. I untapped and slam Chandra neg 4ing her to clear his entire board. The following turn I gain seven life off of renewal and I can tell this game is sealed as I cast kozilek to search up ulamog to get rid of his last creatures. He wasn't able to cast anything else the rest of the game.
7-1-1
I see that the split is 3000 tickets, and that for the finals since my opponent is the 8th seed I would actually be on the play. But at this point all I really want to do is go see the lady friend since we hadn't really seen each other since March. So when my opponent de lines the split, I concede on the spot. Looking at his deck list there no chance I wouldn't have won. He's far to slow and matches up poorly to ulamog, and can't beat kozilek. But I'm happy i just free rolled modern tron off of SCG, made some cash. And got to see the girlfriend
Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend.
Aaron for letting me borrow the last cards I needed
Tony for the food run, the water, and for calling the lady friend and telling her I was going to be late as I played top 4
Marshall for stealing the 8 forests I needed from the draft box, and sitting next to me to see the Sam black match
Dan for letting me use his spell ground playmat, encouraging me not to concede in top 4, telling me not to play legacy burn, and for when hysterically lost it laughing when I blew Sam black out with that Kozileks return.
Casey for not getting to salty at me when I luck sacked him. I just had a horse shoe this weekend
Man thats awesome, wish I could get some roll like that! Good job seeing the lines.
Can you write about your sideboard choices?
And what did Kozilek do for you that Ulamog couldnt?
I always figured in every situation that Ulamog #X would be better than Kozilek #1.
I play with 4 Offshoot and 2 Renewal, 3 From Beyond and 4 Return. With 8 CC7+ creatures that trigger Return preboard and 4 Contortion postboard, the MU doesn't seem that hard to me. You should get Offshoots in your opener, and with that you will usually buy enough time to get going. And once you get going, WW probably looses.
And keep Warping Wail in your 60, because it counters Declaration. You could also put some Rending Volley in your SB, it also helps against many other decks.
I like Kozilek as a 1-of for threat diversification, but just in the sideboard against control decks.
Does anybody here have a lot of experience with the WW matchup? I have an easier time with Goggles ramp against, while regular ramp seems very draw dependent even with 4 Offshoots and all the Sweepers in the world. If you don't draw them in the right order at the right time you're probably dead. I'm leaning towards Goggle Ramp for this weekend, but the GW Token matchup has me worried. Does anyone have any ideas how to tackle it?
Tokens is a tough matchup for Goggles Ramp and even traditional ramp to a lesser degree. I'm not sure how to best play the matchup (as a fellow Goggles player as of late). Also not sure if the MB should be adjusted slightly or just the SB for it. Even if you for instance T3 K-return their tokens during their turn, you usually will not have a way to hit their planeswalkers on your following turn. It still put K-return in the grave and slowed them down a little at least, but you really need to recur it with Worldbreaker, DLA them, or Fall of the Titans surge on them to survive. Not to mention they can just Dromoka's Command to prevent damage from Fall of the Titans / regular K-return (the 5 damage recurred version they cannot prevent though). I'm thinking 1 SB slot dedicated to either Devour in Flames, Exquisite Firecraft, or even Newlamog to help with the matchup (I've seen a few go for a 1-of Ulamog, but I find getting to 10 mana difficult with this deck - especially if we're siding out slow cards like Hedron Archive that would ramp us to 10 vs Tokens).
Hi Guys, I took second* at the recent SCG standard classic. I say second because i conceded to the guy in the finals, even though the matchup i feel is highly favorable. Granted, I had never played ramp before, nor had i played any of this standard. I posted a tourny report here, I'm going to edit some of the details here because I want to make sure it's appropriate before I post it, and a link to my list on scg.
Tourny report: Warning, I did type this at midnight on an ipad, lot of spelling and grammar mistakes
Alright, so if I don't write this down now, I'll probably forget. For SCG Milwaukee, I had my heart set on playing burn in the legacy classic, until I went 2-1 at legacy fnm.... So that night as I debated playing ramp in standard, I set my alarm extra early so I could get to the site with time to put together the deck. As I woke up at 6:00 I said **** it I'll play burn, knowing the legacy classic started a half hour later than the standard I slept for another half hour. I picked up my friend and we reminisced his top 8's with RG monsters on the car ride there, and that's when I decided to play ramp. I borrowed some cards from another friend who I knew played ramp last standard and picked up others from the SCG booth. As I was looking at lists, I saw the 8-1 list from pro tour but I made the changes of -3 endless one, -1 Nissa's renewal for +1 kozilek +2 elvish visionary +1 Hedron Archive. And let me tell you, kozilek is the best threat this deck has, he single handedly won me multiple matches and made my worst matchup (BG seasons past) almost unloseable.
Round 1 BW midrange
This is the only round I lose. Game 1 I don't mulligan a hand with zero ramp and I get steam rolled by Hedron crawler Gideon's and avacyns If I had mulled I don't think I could lose that game. Game two I'm off to a much faster start. He spends his turns making me discard, but I have too many threats this game. And the search off of sanctums makes it hard to deal with all of my threats as I exile his lands with world breakers and ulamogs. Game 3 all I played was ramp spells, hitting 15 lands, and I never see a threat, while all he does is draw cards off of ob nix.
0-1
Round 2 UR goggles
Game one I once again see no ramp and mull to six. I see no ramp that game and expect to get blown out when I see he's on thing in the ice.dec thinking its a million times faster, then I realize that no decks are anywhere near as powerful as the ramp deck I brought, and he struggles to flip double thing in the ice until the last turns, where I scoop up my cards. Game 2 I get off to a controlling start by warping wailing his Jace. He has no other threats, and watching him cast tormenting voice and magmatic insight without goggles makes me laugh. Game three was my favorite because every time he did something I'd have the answer, he got out a thing in the ice, and on my turn 4 I draw world break.... Thinking to myself, "I'll laugh when he slams goggles on his five. Which he does, I exile his goggles and pass. His turn he hard casts the madness lighting bolt, flips his TITI and attacks me down to ten. I untapped, cast ulamog, exiling his horror and man land. He casts goggles. I swing for 10 with ulamog and exile goggles with the bounced world breaker and he scoops them up.
1-1
Round 3 Seasons Past
Seasons past, the deck I didn't want to face at all today. Game one my opponent makes some very questionable plays, as in turn five he dark petitions with spell mastery, but he gets transgress the mind over infinite obliteration? After that he wised up and started playing better, but I had hope due to his lack of knowledge with his own deck. I lost after he did figure out he was suppose to infinite obliterate me and then got it back with seasons past. Game two he turn 3 obliterates my world breakers, but he finds literally no threats as my ulamog is able to eat away at his lands and search for kozilek. If kozilek can hit the field in this matchup you can't lose, even as a one of you have search of sanctums and dig through Chandra. Game three I warping wail his seasons past and he concedes when he realizes he has no outs.
Round 4 Seasons Past
This round I play against a friend who I have never beaten in REL tournament play. I had a strong feeling that he was on seasons past, and my best friend confirms my suspicions. Knowing this is a terrible matchup and he's a far better player than my last opponent I sit down thinking to myself that I'm just here to have fun and I can probably still play for top 32, we get underway. Game one he does what he does and obliterates my world breakers on turn three, makes me discard my hand and I quickly scoop them up and go to game two, I bring in the warping wails and hope for the best. Game two is kind of fuzzy. I know he got rid of my world breakers but, I think I was able to get off a warping wail to counter his second obliteration. I Think I got off kozilek, that drew me a bunch of cards, and searched for ulamog. We get on to game 3. Game three he never hits an obliteration, but he does manage to get off a few discard spells, taking a world breaker, atarka, Nissa's renewal, and my Hedron archive. He however leaves me with my warping wail in hand. The game comes down to me -1 Chandra to take care of his board. (His Nissa's plant tokens) then on his turn he activates his hissing quagmire, and puts a +1/+1 counter on it using Nissa, and swings at Chandra. I make a 1/1 scion with warping wail to bloc, knowing that if I don't draw off Chandra and hit a fatty I probably don't win. For my turn I have three cards in hand, but I have to play a land otherwise if I draw a ten drop I won't be able to cast it. So I draw my three cards off of Chandra and peel kozilek. As always I stack my triggers so that I draw first, then search for ulamog off of sanctum. The game ends when his last card in hand is seasons past and I show him my second warping wail.
3-1
Round 5 Ramp Mirror
Game one I punt hard when I have the chance to either cast world breaker or ulamog. I got greedy and castes ulamog, getting rid of two lands, but he sandbags his second shrine and then ulamogs me. And I have no way to get rid of it. Game two I get off to a much faster start, and I drop kozilek as soon as I have ten mana. Game 3 is one for the books as he gets an early board presence with tireless tracker and Chandra. He hits me down to ten and then I cast kozilek. My hand at that point was kozilek ulamog, ulamog. I cast kozilek because if he does have ulamog, then I can't win. Off the kozilek draws I hit Chandra, so then I have a six, and then I proceed to search up world breaker off of sanctum. I discard a land and pass turn. I'm at ten, he pluses Chandra, then taps out for a second copy, which I pitch my own Chandra to because I don't feel like dying. He attacks with his two tokens and he hits me down to 7. I untapped and cast ulamog to exile his Chandra and tireless tracker, he the. Draws for turn and extends his hand.
4-1
Round 6 GW tokens
This is by far the worst match of magic I played all weekend. Not that I played poorly, but that we both got unlucky. My opponent gets a game one loss for a deck error, game two he mulls to five and me to six. I figure off a draw and scry that I can find a forest to go with my 3 lands, but never do. Game three my opponent gets stuck on three lands, and as soon as he gets his second tapped white source, I have the world breakers to get rid of it.
5-1
Round 7 I.D.
This is where things got a little sketchy, because I'm in 10th place and my opponent is in 9th, but since Sam black is 5-0-1 he plays it out for seed. My opponent asks if I would like to draw and I at this point would rather go home and be with my girlfriend who I said I'd be over by 6... So I gladly draw because I don't care what happens. And I was supposed to be at my girlfriends between 4-6
5-1-1
The top 8 announcement comes and 1st thru 6th was everyone I expected. But then comes 7th and it was a 16 pointer I didn't expect, which meant that I couldn't top. Them they say that 8th place come over by .05%..... And then they said my name... I somehow jumped my last round opponent, and I felt super guilty.
Top 8 Sam Black GW Tokens
This is probably the best match I've played in my life, and the one I'll always remember. Game 1 I get off to an early start with an elvish vision are on turn two. He passes on turn three and I cast a pilgrimage. At my end of turn he casts secure for two and passes. He attacks and and my elf trades with a token, sending me to 19. He casts Gideon post combat to make a token and passes, I use my turn to explode some vegetation, he makes an emblem with Gideon and attacks me down to 14. He passes turn with 5 mana up, and on my turn I have 8 lands in play and I go deep into the tank. I have in my hand Kozileks return, Chandra, world breaker, and Nissa's renewal. I almost over think the situation, because I'm expecting an avacyn. So my thought process goes to, maybe I should cast Chandra, neg 3 her to chase out the avacyn so I can cast Kozileks return in response to the angel clearing one token and setting up for a full board clear the following turn with flashing it back after casting world breaker. Then I come to my senses that if I just gain life off of renewal, I can still wipe away his one token with Kozileks return and it be impossible for him to deal me lethal no matter what. Now at this point some of you are saying how can he do both with only 8 lands, since return costs three and renewal costs 6. And some of you already realize that I can use shrine as two mana towards the return. A lot of people, including Sam black didn't realize that shrine reads colorless spells and not just eldrazi. So when he EoT secured the waste for lethal, I completely lost my poker face as it went from, "this is the best game I've magic I've ever participated in" to "I can't lose game 1" as he casted the secure I tapped my mountain and Shrine and said after that resolves Kozileks return. And Sam black, who I has the most straight face, was stunned and broke silence to say "oh wow" the whole team standing behind me and Sam blacks friend Justin Cohen and a judge were stunned. My following turn I top decked ulamog and wiped his board. And we went to game 2. Game two he curved perfectly and I died before I could cast a spell. Game three he gets stuck on two lands and I eat them with world breakers and he concedes when I eat his last land with a second world breaker and flash back Kozileks return to leave him with zero permanents in play. He shakes my hand and we part ways.
6-1-1
Top 4 GW CoCo humans
This guys deck was sick, and it is probably the second best deck in the field. If I weren't playing ramp I would play this guys deck, it is the best coco deck I've scene. Being seed 7 and having to be on the draw every match was rough, but I never lost game 1. Game one he builds up a board of creatures while my offshoot is gaining me life, he almost has me dead but I'm able to tAke out a tireless tracker and a knight of the WO with atarka. I chump with offshoot and then cast world breaker getting rid of always watching and searching up ulamog to win the game. Game two I stabilize with ulamog but lose to a topdeckd declaration in stone. Game three I finally have my "I win button" in the form of Chandra. I have two offshoots gaining me life, but on turn 5 I use them to chump and I go to six. I untapped and slam Chandra neg 4ing her to clear his entire board. The following turn I gain seven life off of renewal and I can tell this game is sealed as I cast kozilek to search up ulamog to get rid of his last creatures. He wasn't able to cast anything else the rest of the game.
7-1-1
I see that the split is 3000 tickets, and that for the finals since my opponent is the 8th seed I would actually be on the play. But at this point all I really want to do is go see the lady friend since we hadn't really seen each other since March. So when my opponent de lines the split, I concede on the spot. Looking at his deck list there no chance I wouldn't have won. He's far to slow and matches up poorly to ulamog, and can't beat kozilek. But I'm happy i just free rolled modern tron off of SCG, made some cash. And got to see the girlfriend
Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend.
Aaron for letting me borrow the last cards I needed
Tony for the food run, the water, and for calling the lady friend and telling her I was going to be late as I played top 4
Marshall for stealing the 8 forests I needed from the draft box, and sitting next to me to see the Sam black match
Dan for letting me use his spell ground playmat, encouraging me not to concede in top 4, telling me not to play legacy burn, and for when hysterically lost it laughing when I blew Sam black out with that Kozileks return.
Casey for not getting to salty at me when I luck sacked him. I just had a horse shoe this weekend
Hey man. Thanks for the write up. I've gotta say I was really curious how your deck would have lost to the top guy. Makes sense now. Some really cool plays. I would second the request to hear a little more about your sideboard choices. Why no Thought-Knot Seers for example?
Hi Guys, I took second* at the recent SCG standard classic. I say second because i conceded to the guy in the finals, even though the matchup i feel is highly favorable. Granted, I had never played ramp before, nor had i played any of this standard. I posted a tourny report here, I'm going to edit some of the details here because I want to make sure it's appropriate before I post it, and a link to my list on scg.
Tourny report: Warning, I did type this at midnight on an ipad, lot of spelling and grammar mistakes
Alright, so if I don't write this down now, I'll probably forget. For SCG Milwaukee, I had my heart set on playing burn in the legacy classic, until I went 2-1 at legacy fnm.... So that night as I debated playing ramp in standard, I set my alarm extra early so I could get to the site with time to put together the deck. As I woke up at 6:00 I said **** it I'll play burn, knowing the legacy classic started a half hour later than the standard I slept for another half hour. I picked up my friend and we reminisced his top 8's with RG monsters on the car ride there, and that's when I decided to play ramp. I borrowed some cards from another friend who I knew played ramp last standard and picked up others from the SCG booth. As I was looking at lists, I saw the 8-1 list from pro tour but I made the changes of -3 endless one, -1 Nissa's renewal for +1 kozilek +2 elvish visionary +1 Hedron Archive. And let me tell you, kozilek is the best threat this deck has, he single handedly won me multiple matches and made my worst matchup (BG seasons past) almost unloseable.
Round 1 BW midrange
This is the only round I lose. Game 1 I don't mulligan a hand with zero ramp and I get steam rolled by Hedron crawler Gideon's and avacyns If I had mulled I don't think I could lose that game. Game two I'm off to a much faster start. He spends his turns making me discard, but I have too many threats this game. And the search off of sanctums makes it hard to deal with all of my threats as I exile his lands with world breakers and ulamogs. Game 3 all I played was ramp spells, hitting 15 lands, and I never see a threat, while all he does is draw cards off of ob nix.
0-1
Round 2 UR goggles
Game one I once again see no ramp and mull to six. I see no ramp that game and expect to get blown out when I see he's on thing in the ice.dec thinking its a million times faster, then I realize that no decks are anywhere near as powerful as the ramp deck I brought, and he struggles to flip double thing in the ice until the last turns, where I scoop up my cards. Game 2 I get off to a controlling start by warping wailing his Jace. He has no other threats, and watching him cast tormenting voice and magmatic insight without goggles makes me laugh. Game three was my favorite because every time he did something I'd have the answer, he got out a thing in the ice, and on my turn 4 I draw world break.... Thinking to myself, "I'll laugh when he slams goggles on his five. Which he does, I exile his goggles and pass. His turn he hard casts the madness lighting bolt, flips his TITI and attacks me down to ten. I untapped, cast ulamog, exiling his horror and man land. He casts goggles. I swing for 10 with ulamog and exile goggles with the bounced world breaker and he scoops them up.
1-1
Round 3 Seasons Past
Seasons past, the deck I didn't want to face at all today. Game one my opponent makes some very questionable plays, as in turn five he dark petitions with spell mastery, but he gets transgress the mind over infinite obliteration? After that he wised up and started playing better, but I had hope due to his lack of knowledge with his own deck. I lost after he did figure out he was suppose to infinite obliterate me and then got it back with seasons past. Game two he turn 3 obliterates my world breakers, but he finds literally no threats as my ulamog is able to eat away at his lands and search for kozilek. If kozilek can hit the field in this matchup you can't lose, even as a one of you have search of sanctums and dig through Chandra. Game three I warping wail his seasons past and he concedes when he realizes he has no outs.
Round 4 Seasons Past
This round I play against a friend who I have never beaten in REL tournament play. I had a strong feeling that he was on seasons past, and my best friend confirms my suspicions. Knowing this is a terrible matchup and he's a far better player than my last opponent I sit down thinking to myself that I'm just here to have fun and I can probably still play for top 32, we get underway. Game one he does what he does and obliterates my world breakers on turn three, makes me discard my hand and I quickly scoop them up and go to game two, I bring in the warping wails and hope for the best. Game two is kind of fuzzy. I know he got rid of my world breakers but, I think I was able to get off a warping wail to counter his second obliteration. I Think I got off kozilek, that drew me a bunch of cards, and searched for ulamog. We get on to game 3. Game three he never hits an obliteration, but he does manage to get off a few discard spells, taking a world breaker, atarka, Nissa's renewal, and my Hedron archive. He however leaves me with my warping wail in hand. The game comes down to me -1 Chandra to take care of his board. (His Nissa's plant tokens) then on his turn he activates his hissing quagmire, and puts a +1/+1 counter on it using Nissa, and swings at Chandra. I make a 1/1 scion with warping wail to bloc, knowing that if I don't draw off Chandra and hit a fatty I probably don't win. For my turn I have three cards in hand, but I have to play a land otherwise if I draw a ten drop I won't be able to cast it. So I draw my three cards off of Chandra and peel kozilek. As always I stack my triggers so that I draw first, then search for ulamog off of sanctum. The game ends when his last card in hand is seasons past and I show him my second warping wail.
3-1
Round 5 Ramp Mirror
Game one I punt hard when I have the chance to either cast world breaker or ulamog. I got greedy and castes ulamog, getting rid of two lands, but he sandbags his second shrine and then ulamogs me. And I have no way to get rid of it. Game two I get off to a much faster start, and I drop kozilek as soon as I have ten mana. Game 3 is one for the books as he gets an early board presence with tireless tracker and Chandra. He hits me down to ten and then I cast kozilek. My hand at that point was kozilek ulamog, ulamog. I cast kozilek because if he does have ulamog, then I can't win. Off the kozilek draws I hit Chandra, so then I have a six, and then I proceed to search up world breaker off of sanctum. I discard a land and pass turn. I'm at ten, he pluses Chandra, then taps out for a second copy, which I pitch my own Chandra to because I don't feel like dying. He attacks with his two tokens and he hits me down to 7. I untapped and cast ulamog to exile his Chandra and tireless tracker, he the. Draws for turn and extends his hand.
4-1
Round 6 GW tokens
This is by far the worst match of magic I played all weekend. Not that I played poorly, but that we both got unlucky. My opponent gets a game one loss for a deck error, game two he mulls to five and me to six. I figure off a draw and scry that I can find a forest to go with my 3 lands, but never do. Game three my opponent gets stuck on three lands, and as soon as he gets his second tapped white source, I have the world breakers to get rid of it.
5-1
Round 7 I.D.
This is where things got a little sketchy, because I'm in 10th place and my opponent is in 9th, but since Sam black is 5-0-1 he plays it out for seed. My opponent asks if I would like to draw and I at this point would rather go home and be with my girlfriend who I said I'd be over by 6... So I gladly draw because I don't care what happens. And I was supposed to be at my girlfriends between 4-6
5-1-1
The top 8 announcement comes and 1st thru 6th was everyone I expected. But then comes 7th and it was a 16 pointer I didn't expect, which meant that I couldn't top. Them they say that 8th place come over by .05%..... And then they said my name... I somehow jumped my last round opponent, and I felt super guilty.
Top 8 Sam Black GW Tokens
This is probably the best match I've played in my life, and the one I'll always remember. Game 1 I get off to an early start with an elvish vision are on turn two. He passes on turn three and I cast a pilgrimage. At my end of turn he casts secure for two and passes. He attacks and and my elf trades with a token, sending me to 19. He casts Gideon post combat to make a token and passes, I use my turn to explode some vegetation, he makes an emblem with Gideon and attacks me down to 14. He passes turn with 5 mana up, and on my turn I have 8 lands in play and I go deep into the tank. I have in my hand Kozileks return, Chandra, world breaker, and Nissa's renewal. I almost over think the situation, because I'm expecting an avacyn. So my thought process goes to, maybe I should cast Chandra, neg 3 her to chase out the avacyn so I can cast Kozileks return in response to the angel clearing one token and setting up for a full board clear the following turn with flashing it back after casting world breaker. Then I come to my senses that if I just gain life off of renewal, I can still wipe away his one token with Kozileks return and it be impossible for him to deal me lethal no matter what. Now at this point some of you are saying how can he do both with only 8 lands, since return costs three and renewal costs 6. And some of you already realize that I can use shrine as two mana towards the return. A lot of people, including Sam black didn't realize that shrine reads colorless spells and not just eldrazi. So when he EoT secured the waste for lethal, I completely lost my poker face as it went from, "this is the best game I've magic I've ever participated in" to "I can't lose game 1" as he casted the secure I tapped my mountain and Shrine and said after that resolves Kozileks return. And Sam black, who I has the most straight face, was stunned and broke silence to say "oh wow" the whole team standing behind me and Sam blacks friend Justin Cohen and a judge were stunned. My following turn I top decked ulamog and wiped his board. And we went to game 2. Game two he curved perfectly and I died before I could cast a spell. Game three he gets stuck on two lands and I eat them with world breakers and he concedes when I eat his last land with a second world breaker and flash back Kozileks return to leave him with zero permanents in play. He shakes my hand and we part ways.
6-1-1
Top 4 GW CoCo humans
This guys deck was sick, and it is probably the second best deck in the field. If I weren't playing ramp I would play this guys deck, it is the best coco deck I've scene. Being seed 7 and having to be on the draw every match was rough, but I never lost game 1. Game one he builds up a board of creatures while my offshoot is gaining me life, he almost has me dead but I'm able to tAke out a tireless tracker and a knight of the WO with atarka. I chump with offshoot and then cast world breaker getting rid of always watching and searching up ulamog to win the game. Game two I stabilize with ulamog but lose to a topdeckd declaration in stone. Game three I finally have my "I win button" in the form of Chandra. I have two offshoots gaining me life, but on turn 5 I use them to chump and I go to six. I untapped and slam Chandra neg 4ing her to clear his entire board. The following turn I gain seven life off of renewal and I can tell this game is sealed as I cast kozilek to search up ulamog to get rid of his last creatures. He wasn't able to cast anything else the rest of the game.
7-1-1
I see that the split is 3000 tickets, and that for the finals since my opponent is the 8th seed I would actually be on the play. But at this point all I really want to do is go see the lady friend since we hadn't really seen each other since March. So when my opponent de lines the split, I concede on the spot. Looking at his deck list there no chance I wouldn't have won. He's far to slow and matches up poorly to ulamog, and can't beat kozilek. But I'm happy i just free rolled modern tron off of SCG, made some cash. And got to see the girlfriend
Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend.
Aaron for letting me borrow the last cards I needed
Tony for the food run, the water, and for calling the lady friend and telling her I was going to be late as I played top 4
Marshall for stealing the 8 forests I needed from the draft box, and sitting next to me to see the Sam black match
Dan for letting me use his spell ground playmat, encouraging me not to concede in top 4, telling me not to play legacy burn, and for when hysterically lost it laughing when I blew Sam black out with that Kozileks return.
Casey for not getting to salty at me when I luck sacked him. I just had a horse shoe this weekend
Man thats awesome, wish I could get some roll like that! Good job seeing the lines.
Can you write about your sideboard choices?
And what did Kozilek do for you that Ulamog couldnt?
I always figured in every situation that Ulamog #X would be better than Kozilek #1.
Going fourth, I'm not completely sold on tireless tracker in the the deck. It's a great card, but just doesn't fit with us. Kozilek was amazing. Ulamog has the capability of stable living the board, yes. But kozilek pulls you ahead and is always a win. By the late game, your hand is basically empty, and he draws you so many cards. The countering ability is super relevant, because red and green shouldn't be able to do that. If I hadn't been casting kozilek in the main, I wouldn't have won this tourny. I know I'm kind of spur attic with my thinking right now, and not doing a good job at explaining how he's a house, but trust me, he is. I guess he's more of a meta call. There really weren't many human decks at the SCG Classic, it was mostly control, ramp, and tokens. And in a field like that, kozilek is unstoppable.
The sideboard needs some work, I'd probably go up to 3 warping wails, the card is too good not to be a 3 of. Gonna add in some roasts for the human matchup, and I'll be changing up the main, doing some major testing the next two weeks and am looking to run it back at SCG indy
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional.
I have been monitoring top 8 lists and stuff, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated.
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional. Currently using your list, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional. Currently using your list, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated
Yeah, I'm currently revamping the list. My first list was inherently very powerful, But it was also highly untuned. I just played well and got very lucky with my matchups. I've been talking to my 5th round opponent and we've been collaborating on a list. I currently have 3 events to test before SCG Indy, 2 FNMs and 1 small cash tourny next Wednesday. So I'll be working on the list until then. I would prefer not to make the list public, because it's a complete overhaul and a lot could be wrong with it. But if you want a rough version of the list you can PM me, I'd be willing to share it with you
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional. Currently using your list, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated
Yeah, I'm currently revamping the list. My first list was inherently very powerful, But it was also highly untuned. I just played well and got very lucky with my matchups. I've been talking to my 5th round opponent and we've been collaborating on a list. I currently have 3 events to test before SCG Indy, 2 FNMs and 1 small cash tourny next Wednesday. So I'll be working on the list until then. I would prefer not to make the list public, because it's a complete overhaul and a lot could be wrong with it. But if you want a rough version of the list you can PM me, I'd be willing to share it with you
I've been keeping up on deck changes and make overs, have you all checked out Sam Black's Duskwatch Ramp? Any thoughts on this going smaller build?
Having been on Goggles ramp for the last few weeks, I do miss casting Ulamogs and ramping a la traditional manner, but my meta is saturated with G/W Tokens and B/W + Seasons Past control. Not that those aren't winnable but the Gideon beat downs have been real. Also, I haven't seen many Straight Ramp lists topping Daily's on MTGO, however I do see quite a few doing well at SCG IQ's, most notably G/R ramp wasn't even close to a Top 32 finish at the last GP, but is did well at an SCG Classic? What's the difference in the meta game here?
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
I realized you have no rending volley in your Side for humans, I like it better than Roast, can hit Avacyn, Ojatui, cost less and is instant. Think about it. I dod love me some Roast though, only one of ~ wish I could find room for one more.
Sorry, just saw this comment lol. I'll elaborate on this mess of a sideboard. As horrible as it was, it kinda really worked out well. When I pick up a deck it's usually hard for me to sideboard due to the fact that I don't know what I want to bring in, because I bring in to much and don't know what to take out and prioritize the wrong cards. But this worked out well this weekend, since ramp is so inherently powerful on its own, you can't really dilute it to much. And the cards I always took out were the cards that diluted it already. For most of my matchups it went something like this
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional. Currently using your list, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated
Traverse is a mana fixer first, the reason Ruin in their wake can be played reliably. Here is my version using RitW or just Ruin:
Warping Wail Main help with delirium, ramping, killing humans/Jace/Thing in Ice and more importantly counters:Transgress the mind, infinite Obliteration, Duress, Read the bones, Painful Truths, Declaration in Stone, Dark Petition, Seasons Past, Ruinous Path, ramp spells, etc.
But the 2 Warping wail are he last 2 spots in the deck so...
I VERY well could be likely that there is too much ramp and mana cards that it would be better to exclude an Oath of Nissa (less hits in this deck), the warping wails.
I've been keeping up on deck changes and make overs, have you all checked out Sam Black's Duskwatch Ramp? Any thoughts on this going smaller build?
Like you, I've also been playing a lot of RG Goggles Ramp lately. I was liking it at first as a breath of fresh air with lots of new lines to explore. But lately the metagame has become heavily saturated with GW Tokens and control decks made to beat GW Tokens. I haven't been finding the Goggles as good lately.
Sam Black/Justin Cohen's Naya Ramp is very real. I've played against it and gotten crushed multiple times. I've also just started to pick it up lately and it feels really strong in this meta. The threats are so varied and there's so many ways to get to them with Oaths, Duskwatches, and clue cracking from Tireless Trackers. Dragonlord Dromoka has been fantastic as well. Until the meta shifts again, Naya Ramp is where I'm at. The stock 75 I'm running with:
I haven't made any adjustments to it as I've only recently started to play it. Just a very strong solid deck. I also like how it feels different than traditional ramp, but still operates on the same axis. Oath of Nissa always hitting something you want is great too.
Finally got a G/r Ramp deck in a GP, this one is from Toyko: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/9th-16th-decklists-2016-05-08
Pawn of Ulamog is more than likely just Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger.
Interesting take on it, no World breakers and 22 Land, But with 4 traverse and Oath I suppose you can get away with it
I think there are a few reasons why there haven’t been many Ramp decks in the top 16/32 over the last two GP’s.
One is the fact that Ramp currently doesn’t have a best version for everyone to play. Unlike G/W Tokens or Bant CoCo decks that only have a few flex slots that differ between decks; which makes those two decks easier to put together and tune for the meta they feel they are going to face. Ramp can be built so many different ways; with the different versions working well against one type of meta; but not against another. For example G/R Googles Ramp is great against Bant CoCo and Human based decks; but struggles against G/W Tokens; Control and traditional G/R Ramp style decks. Then you have the version running Offshoots and Renewals that work great against Bant CoCo and Humans; and I feel it has game against G/W Token’s; but I also feel is weaker against control because it is slower so it doesn’t put any early pressure on the control decks. Which gives them time to play their game and setup the board to their liking.
Another reason is that G/W Tokens has exploded in popularity and that means people are looking for decks that give them an advantage against it. Which is why there was 3 control decks and 2 4C Cryptolith Rite decks in the top 8 at GPNY. The other 3 top 8 decks were G/W tokens. Out of the top 32 you had a total of 9 Control Decks and 9 Cryptolith decks and 8 G/W Token decks. There were 4 other archtypes that got a total of 5 decks in the top 32. So in the current meta you need to be playing a deck that either prey’s on the G/W Token deck or a deck that prey’s on the decks that prey on the G/W Token decks. The Cryptolith decks can be very explosive and can produce enough mana to dump their hand by turn 4 or even pull off a turn 3 CoCo.
And while G/R Ramp can do both (have game); it just hasn’t done it consistently enough for people to want to run it at GP level event. Which mean the number of G/R Ramp decks making it to day 2 is poor.
How to solve this issue is the question. Finding a build of the deck that is both consistent and powerful enough to win is the challenge. It looks based on the searching the SCG deck database that the versions running 4 Offshoots and at least 2 Renewals MD are putting up the best results. With 4 1st place and 7 2nd place and a few 3rd place finishes; at States along with the SCG Standard Open win.
So the tl;dr version is that we need to find a version of Ramp that is a) consistent and b) still powerful enough to deal with the top decks.
Psy
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
I've been building ramp, but not wanting to pull the trigger and play it due to the feeling that it loses to itself some portion of the time. But after getting mediocre results with "tier 1" decks and losing to Goggles Ramp, I decided that I wanted to be able to beat Goggles (#NotBitterAboutSellingMine) at least.
So I finalized a random ramp pile and took it to a 20 person midweek event in the DC area. Match 1, I sit down with 3 others at a table and 3 of us are on ramp. It turns out that half the room is on ramp and the other half is on salt. I go 3-1, coming in 4th. Ramp also finished first and second. I felt bad for the Esper Planeswalker player who was explaining how good his deck was while dropping (#sarcasm). I didn't feel too bad for the Seasons Past guy who maindecked Obliteration, but wouldn't shake after losing. I also beat a GR non-Googles Ramp deck that was playing lots of Jaddi Offshoots and a Rakdos control deck while losing to the Boros Thopter Eldrazi deck.
Last night I switched a few cards around and took it out again for a 14 person event. I punted two games in match 1 against BG Rites Sacrifice to lose 2-1. I didn't lose another game while going 3-1. I beat RG Rites, Grixis Control and Jund. Kozilek was great out of the sideboard, allowing me to counter an Act of Treason that would have been fatal if he had been an Ulamog and a flashed back (via Goblin Dark Dwellers) Foul Tongue Invocation. In the post-sideboard game against Jund, he cast Pick the Brain 3 times (once replayed with GDD) and Obliteration on Ulamog before World Breakers ate his mana base. He died without being able to cast more Obliterations that he had in his hand.
I have my build below, but I don't think it is right. I can't tell if dorks should be in the main, the side or not in the 75. In my first run-through, I hedged with 2 dorks, 2 Offshoots and 2 Kozilek's Return in the main, but otherwise the list was similar. I do recommend the following, which are probably too obvious to even mention:
The Sam Black lists seams like value.dec but for some reason i can't bring myself to like it.
I always have to ask myself why i wouldn't just run the nissa's renewal/jaddi offshoot list and power out one titan after the other.
Or why you wouldn't just run ramp + some tireless trackers/woodland bellower/duskwatch recruiters.
This Sam Black list can creature value nonstop, but if the other guy swings with 7 creatures + gideon emblem he won't really care.
He has only 2 sweepers (1 Languish, 1 Great Aurora) and those aren't very reliable for shutting down most decks, especially since it is only 1 languish.
Why would you want to reset the game with the great aurora when you can just cast some titans and wipe the board with kozilek's return or chandra and just win?
The rather traditional ramp lists are highly underplayed right now and will likely start to win some more events soon.
Deck sucked. It was roughly Ben Rubin's list from GP NYC and thrown together last minute. It's slow but probably has a fine MU vs. control. I guess I'l never know since I just never played against it.
The lists with Hydra look way better than this. I like.
As for the matchup of G/W Tokens and G/R Ramp; I think it is going to matter as to which version of Ramp you are running. But both Frank and BBD from Channelfireball feel that it is a bad matchup for R/G Goggles. Since the Goggles version of the deck has trouble dealing with Planewalkers (none of the burn spells can hit Planewalkers and they only run 4 creatures and 2 Chandra’s main).
For the more creature heavy versions of G/R Ramp; I don’t know. I do feel that they have a better game against Tokens compared to the Goggles version and if they are running DLA then that is a plus since he can be hard for them to remove since they don’t main deck a lot of removal (most lists are running 1 snare MD) and only have Avacyn and any tokens from the Hangarback that can fly. Plus the 5 damage ETB trigger can be directed towards or split between Nissa or Gideon to remove or lower their loyalty.
The token decks also don’t apply a lot of pressure early which allows G/R Ramp to do their only thing; which is what it wants to do and if G/R Ramp can be at 7 lands by turn 5 and have a threat; then the match I feel is very much in the Ramp Deck’s favor. Since their best start is Inspector to Advocate to Nissa then Gideon the 1st 4 turns and most of the time they make a plant on turn 3 with Nissa and then use her minus on turn 4 after they make a token on turn 4 with Gideon. So that way on turn 5 they can create an emblem with Gideon (though some have just attacked turn 4 with him).
Looking at the matchup for the version of ramp running Offshoots and Renewals MD; I feel that it would be in the Ramp’s deck favor. The offshoots and Advocates can stall the board until turn 4 and gain the Ramp player anywhere from 3 to 6 life by turn 4; which will also buy them time to get WB and Ulamog online.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Decklist: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102529
Tourny report: Warning, I did type this at midnight on an ipad, lot of spelling and grammar mistakes
Alright, so if I don't write this down now, I'll probably forget. For SCG Milwaukee, I had my heart set on playing burn in the legacy classic, until I went 2-1 at legacy fnm.... So that night as I debated playing ramp in standard, I set my alarm extra early so I could get to the site with time to put together the deck. As I woke up at 6:00 I said **** it I'll play burn, knowing the legacy classic started a half hour later than the standard I slept for another half hour. I picked up my friend and we reminisced his top 8's with RG monsters on the car ride there, and that's when I decided to play ramp. I borrowed some cards from another friend who I knew played ramp last standard and picked up others from the SCG booth. As I was looking at lists, I saw the 8-1 list from pro tour but I made the changes of -3 endless one, -1 Nissa's renewal for +1 kozilek +2 elvish visionary +1 Hedron Archive. And let me tell you, kozilek is the best threat this deck has, he single handedly won me multiple matches and made my worst matchup (BG seasons past) almost unloseable.
Round 1 BW midrange
This is the only round I lose. Game 1 I don't mulligan a hand with zero ramp and I get steam rolled by Hedron crawler Gideon's and avacyns If I had mulled I don't think I could lose that game. Game two I'm off to a much faster start. He spends his turns making me discard, but I have too many threats this game. And the search off of sanctums makes it hard to deal with all of my threats as I exile his lands with world breakers and ulamogs. Game 3 all I played was ramp spells, hitting 15 lands, and I never see a threat, while all he does is draw cards off of ob nix.
0-1
Round 2 UR goggles
Game one I once again see no ramp and mull to six. I see no ramp that game and expect to get blown out when I see he's on thing in the ice.dec thinking its a million times faster, then I realize that no decks are anywhere near as powerful as the ramp deck I brought, and he struggles to flip double thing in the ice until the last turns, where I scoop up my cards. Game 2 I get off to a controlling start by warping wailing his Jace. He has no other threats, and watching him cast tormenting voice and magmatic insight without goggles makes me laugh. Game three was my favorite because every time he did something I'd have the answer, he got out a thing in the ice, and on my turn 4 I draw world break.... Thinking to myself, "I'll laugh when he slams goggles on his five. Which he does, I exile his goggles and pass. His turn he hard casts the madness lighting bolt, flips his TITI and attacks me down to ten. I untapped, cast ulamog, exiling his horror and man land. He casts goggles. I swing for 10 with ulamog and exile goggles with the bounced world breaker and he scoops them up.
1-1
Round 3 Seasons Past
Seasons past, the deck I didn't want to face at all today. Game one my opponent makes some very questionable plays, as in turn five he dark petitions with spell mastery, but he gets transgress the mind over infinite obliteration? After that he wised up and started playing better, but I had hope due to his lack of knowledge with his own deck. I lost after he did figure out he was suppose to infinite obliterate me and then got it back with seasons past. Game two he turn 3 obliterates my world breakers, but he finds literally no threats as my ulamog is able to eat away at his lands and search for kozilek. If kozilek can hit the field in this matchup you can't lose, even as a one of you have search of sanctums and dig through Chandra. Game three I warping wail his seasons past and he concedes when he realizes he has no outs.
Round 4 Seasons Past
This round I play against a friend who I have never beaten in REL tournament play. I had a strong feeling that he was on seasons past, and my best friend confirms my suspicions. Knowing this is a terrible matchup and he's a far better player than my last opponent I sit down thinking to myself that I'm just here to have fun and I can probably still play for top 32, we get underway. Game one he does what he does and obliterates my world breakers on turn three, makes me discard my hand and I quickly scoop them up and go to game two, I bring in the warping wails and hope for the best. Game two is kind of fuzzy. I know he got rid of my world breakers but, I think I was able to get off a warping wail to counter his second obliteration. I Think I got off kozilek, that drew me a bunch of cards, and searched for ulamog. We get on to game 3. Game three he never hits an obliteration, but he does manage to get off a few discard spells, taking a world breaker, atarka, Nissa's renewal, and my Hedron archive. He however leaves me with my warping wail in hand. The game comes down to me -1 Chandra to take care of his board. (His Nissa's plant tokens) then on his turn he activates his hissing quagmire, and puts a +1/+1 counter on it using Nissa, and swings at Chandra. I make a 1/1 scion with warping wail to bloc, knowing that if I don't draw off Chandra and hit a fatty I probably don't win. For my turn I have three cards in hand, but I have to play a land otherwise if I draw a ten drop I won't be able to cast it. So I draw my three cards off of Chandra and peel kozilek. As always I stack my triggers so that I draw first, then search for ulamog off of sanctum. The game ends when his last card in hand is seasons past and I show him my second warping wail.
3-1
Round 5 Ramp Mirror
Game one I punt hard when I have the chance to either cast world breaker or ulamog. I got greedy and castes ulamog, getting rid of two lands, but he sandbags his second shrine and then ulamogs me. And I have no way to get rid of it. Game two I get off to a much faster start, and I drop kozilek as soon as I have ten mana. Game 3 is one for the books as he gets an early board presence with tireless tracker and Chandra. He hits me down to ten and then I cast kozilek. My hand at that point was kozilek ulamog, ulamog. I cast kozilek because if he does have ulamog, then I can't win. Off the kozilek draws I hit Chandra, so then I have a six, and then I proceed to search up world breaker off of sanctum. I discard a land and pass turn. I'm at ten, he pluses Chandra, then taps out for a second copy, which I pitch my own Chandra to because I don't feel like dying. He attacks with his two tokens and he hits me down to 7. I untapped and cast ulamog to exile his Chandra and tireless tracker, he the. Draws for turn and extends his hand.
4-1
Round 6 GW tokens
This is by far the worst match of magic I played all weekend. Not that I played poorly, but that we both got unlucky. My opponent gets a game one loss for a deck error, game two he mulls to five and me to six. I figure off a draw and scry that I can find a forest to go with my 3 lands, but never do. Game three my opponent gets stuck on three lands, and as soon as he gets his second tapped white source, I have the world breakers to get rid of it.
5-1
Round 7 I.D.
This is where things got a little sketchy, because I'm in 10th place and my opponent is in 9th, but since Sam black is 5-0-1 he plays it out for seed. My opponent asks if I would like to draw and I at this point would rather go home and be with my girlfriend who I said I'd be over by 6... So I gladly draw because I don't care what happens. And I was supposed to be at my girlfriends between 4-6
5-1-1
The top 8 announcement comes and 1st thru 6th was everyone I expected. But then comes 7th and it was a 16 pointer I didn't expect, which meant that I couldn't top. Them they say that 8th place come over by .05%..... And then they said my name... I somehow jumped my last round opponent, and I felt super guilty.
Top 8 Sam Black GW Tokens
This is probably the best match I've played in my life, and the one I'll always remember. Game 1 I get off to an early start with an elvish vision are on turn two. He passes on turn three and I cast a pilgrimage. At my end of turn he casts secure for two and passes. He attacks and and my elf trades with a token, sending me to 19. He casts Gideon post combat to make a token and passes, I use my turn to explode some vegetation, he makes an emblem with Gideon and attacks me down to 14. He passes turn with 5 mana up, and on my turn I have 8 lands in play and I go deep into the tank. I have in my hand Kozileks return, Chandra, world breaker, and Nissa's renewal. I almost over think the situation, because I'm expecting an avacyn. So my thought process goes to, maybe I should cast Chandra, neg 3 her to chase out the avacyn so I can cast Kozileks return in response to the angel clearing one token and setting up for a full board clear the following turn with flashing it back after casting world breaker. Then I come to my senses that if I just gain life off of renewal, I can still wipe away his one token with Kozileks return and it be impossible for him to deal me lethal no matter what. Now at this point some of you are saying how can he do both with only 8 lands, since return costs three and renewal costs 6. And some of you already realize that I can use shrine as two mana towards the return. A lot of people, including Sam black didn't realize that shrine reads colorless spells and not just eldrazi. So when he EoT secured the waste for lethal, I completely lost my poker face as it went from, "this is the best game I've magic I've ever participated in" to "I can't lose game 1" as he casted the secure I tapped my mountain and Shrine and said after that resolves Kozileks return. And Sam black, who I has the most straight face, was stunned and broke silence to say "oh wow" the whole team standing behind me and Sam blacks friend Justin Cohen and a judge were stunned. My following turn I top decked ulamog and wiped his board. And we went to game 2. Game two he curved perfectly and I died before I could cast a spell. Game three he gets stuck on two lands and I eat them with world breakers and he concedes when I eat his last land with a second world breaker and flash back Kozileks return to leave him with zero permanents in play. He shakes my hand and we part ways.
6-1-1
Top 4 GW CoCo humans
This guys deck was sick, and it is probably the second best deck in the field. If I weren't playing ramp I would play this guys deck, it is the best coco deck I've scene. Being seed 7 and having to be on the draw every match was rough, but I never lost game 1. Game one he builds up a board of creatures while my offshoot is gaining me life, he almost has me dead but I'm able to tAke out a tireless tracker and a knight of the WO with atarka. I chump with offshoot and then cast world breaker getting rid of always watching and searching up ulamog to win the game. Game two I stabilize with ulamog but lose to a topdeckd declaration in stone. Game three I finally have my "I win button" in the form of Chandra. I have two offshoots gaining me life, but on turn 5 I use them to chump and I go to six. I untapped and slam Chandra neg 4ing her to clear his entire board. The following turn I gain seven life off of renewal and I can tell this game is sealed as I cast kozilek to search up ulamog to get rid of his last creatures. He wasn't able to cast anything else the rest of the game.
7-1-1
I see that the split is 3000 tickets, and that for the finals since my opponent is the 8th seed I would actually be on the play. But at this point all I really want to do is go see the lady friend since we hadn't really seen each other since March. So when my opponent de lines the split, I concede on the spot. Looking at his deck list there no chance I wouldn't have won. He's far to slow and matches up poorly to ulamog, and can't beat kozilek. But I'm happy i just free rolled modern tron off of SCG, made some cash. And got to see the girlfriend
Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend.
Aaron for letting me borrow the last cards I needed
Tony for the food run, the water, and for calling the lady friend and telling her I was going to be late as I played top 4
Marshall for stealing the 8 forests I needed from the draft box, and sitting next to me to see the Sam black match
Dan for letting me use his spell ground playmat, encouraging me not to concede in top 4, telling me not to play legacy burn, and for when hysterically lost it laughing when I blew Sam black out with that Kozileks return.
Casey for not getting to salty at me when I luck sacked him. I just had a horse shoe this weekend
Standard: R/G Ramp 7-1-1.
Finalist SCG Milwaukee Classic
Modern: R/G Tron 0-0
Payed for with winnings from SCG Milwaukee
Man thats awesome, wish I could get some roll like that! Good job seeing the lines.
Can you write about your sideboard choices?
And what did Kozilek do for you that Ulamog couldnt?
I always figured in every situation that Ulamog #X would be better than Kozilek #1.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
And keep Warping Wail in your 60, because it counters Declaration. You could also put some Rending Volley in your SB, it also helps against many other decks.
Greetings
Tokens is a tough matchup for Goggles Ramp and even traditional ramp to a lesser degree. I'm not sure how to best play the matchup (as a fellow Goggles player as of late). Also not sure if the MB should be adjusted slightly or just the SB for it. Even if you for instance T3 K-return their tokens during their turn, you usually will not have a way to hit their planeswalkers on your following turn. It still put K-return in the grave and slowed them down a little at least, but you really need to recur it with Worldbreaker, DLA them, or Fall of the Titans surge on them to survive. Not to mention they can just Dromoka's Command to prevent damage from Fall of the Titans / regular K-return (the 5 damage recurred version they cannot prevent though). I'm thinking 1 SB slot dedicated to either Devour in Flames, Exquisite Firecraft, or even Newlamog to help with the matchup (I've seen a few go for a 1-of Ulamog, but I find getting to 10 mana difficult with this deck - especially if we're siding out slow cards like Hedron Archive that would ramp us to 10 vs Tokens).
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Hey man. Thanks for the write up. I've gotta say I was really curious how your deck would have lost to the top guy. Makes sense now. Some really cool plays. I would second the request to hear a little more about your sideboard choices. Why no Thought-Knot Seers for example?
Going fourth, I'm not completely sold on tireless tracker in the the deck. It's a great card, but just doesn't fit with us. Kozilek was amazing. Ulamog has the capability of stable living the board, yes. But kozilek pulls you ahead and is always a win. By the late game, your hand is basically empty, and he draws you so many cards. The countering ability is super relevant, because red and green shouldn't be able to do that. If I hadn't been casting kozilek in the main, I wouldn't have won this tourny. I know I'm kind of spur attic with my thinking right now, and not doing a good job at explaining how he's a house, but trust me, he is. I guess he's more of a meta call. There really weren't many human decks at the SCG Classic, it was mostly control, ramp, and tokens. And in a field like that, kozilek is unstoppable.
The sideboard needs some work, I'd probably go up to 3 warping wails, the card is too good not to be a 3 of. Gonna add in some roasts for the human matchup, and I'll be changing up the main, doing some major testing the next two weeks and am looking to run it back at SCG indy
Standard: R/G Ramp 7-1-1.
Finalist SCG Milwaukee Classic
Modern: R/G Tron 0-0
Payed for with winnings from SCG Milwaukee
U/R Goggles
- 4 offshoot, -1 elvish visionary
+ 1 world breaker, +1 ulamog, +2 warping wail +1 Nissa's renewal
When he played turn 1 manland tapped, I was worried because I thought this deck was much faster than it was. So when I lost on turn six while not having any ramp, I felt comfortable removing the life gain in the form of offshoots. I brought in more eldrazi in this matchup because if one ulamog lands you win, and you want to have four world breakers for 4 of his goggles.
B/G seasons past
-4 offshoots -1 return
+1 ulamog, + 1 renewal, + 2 warping wail + 1 crumble
You bring in ulamog because your going to need more threats after they obliterate world breaker. Warping wail wins this match, counter one spell and you win. Or use it as a blocker for Chandra LOL. and renewal because leaving in one singular offshoot doesn't further your game plan. The one crumble because getting rid of hissing quagmire is better than having four Kozileks returns that only wipe the board if you flash them back
Tokens:
This matchup seems 50/50 to me, bring in clip wings renewal ulamog and world breaker take out the off shoots and try to capitalize
I tried brining in tireless tracker in this matchup to clog up the ground but I was wrong. They either start off superfast or super slow. Elvish visionary was huge against Sam black. It drew me land I needed it cast pilgrimage on time shortly into a world breaker
Standard: R/G Ramp 7-1-1.
Finalist SCG Milwaukee Classic
Modern: R/G Tron 0-0
Payed for with winnings from SCG Milwaukee
I have been monitoring top 8 lists and stuff, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated.
So..having trouble deciding on yes or no to Traverse the Ulvenwald, also ruin in their wake. is traverse more for the goggles list? I want to play traditional. Currently using your list, but im having trouble in my meta with aggro. Any advice appreciated
Yeah, I'm currently revamping the list. My first list was inherently very powerful, But it was also highly untuned. I just played well and got very lucky with my matchups. I've been talking to my 5th round opponent and we've been collaborating on a list. I currently have 3 events to test before SCG Indy, 2 FNMs and 1 small cash tourny next Wednesday. So I'll be working on the list until then. I would prefer not to make the list public, because it's a complete overhaul and a lot could be wrong with it. But if you want a rough version of the list you can PM me, I'd be willing to share it with you
Standard: R/G Ramp 7-1-1.
Finalist SCG Milwaukee Classic
Modern: R/G Tron 0-0
Payed for with winnings from SCG Milwaukee
okay cool! I pm'd you. Thank you very much!
Having been on Goggles ramp for the last few weeks, I do miss casting Ulamogs and ramping a la traditional manner, but my meta is saturated with G/W Tokens and B/W + Seasons Past control. Not that those aren't winnable but the Gideon beat downs have been real. Also, I haven't seen many Straight Ramp lists topping Daily's on MTGO, however I do see quite a few doing well at SCG IQ's, most notably G/R ramp wasn't even close to a Top 32 finish at the last GP, but is did well at an SCG Classic? What's the difference in the meta game here?
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I realized you have no rending volley in your Side for humans, I like it better than Roast, can hit Avacyn, Ojatui, cost less and is instant. Think about it. I dod love me some Roast though, only one of ~ wish I could find room for one more.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Traverse is a mana fixer first, the reason Ruin in their wake can be played reliably. Here is my version using RitW or just Ruin:
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 World Breaker
2 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells - 23
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Ruin in their Wake
2 Warping Wail
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
11 Forest
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Wastes
2 Mountain
3 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Cinder Glade
3 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Roast
2 Rending Volley
2 clip wings
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Void Winnower
Warping Wail Main help with delirium, ramping, killing humans/Jace/Thing in Ice and more importantly counters:Transgress the mind, infinite Obliteration, Duress, Read the bones, Painful Truths, Declaration in Stone, Dark Petition, Seasons Past, Ruinous Path, ramp spells, etc.
But the 2 Warping wail are he last 2 spots in the deck so...
I VERY well could be likely that there is too much ramp and mana cards that it would be better to exclude an Oath of Nissa (less hits in this deck), the warping wails.
Hope it all helped.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Like you, I've also been playing a lot of RG Goggles Ramp lately. I was liking it at first as a breath of fresh air with lots of new lines to explore. But lately the metagame has become heavily saturated with GW Tokens and control decks made to beat GW Tokens. I haven't been finding the Goggles as good lately.
Sam Black/Justin Cohen's Naya Ramp is very real. I've played against it and gotten crushed multiple times. I've also just started to pick it up lately and it feels really strong in this meta. The threats are so varied and there's so many ways to get to them with Oaths, Duskwatches, and clue cracking from Tireless Trackers. Dragonlord Dromoka has been fantastic as well. Until the meta shifts again, Naya Ramp is where I'm at. The stock 75 I'm running with:
4 Evolving Wilds
11 Forest
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Mountain
1 Rogue's Passage
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Mirrorpool
CREATURES
4 Deathcap Cultivator
3 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Sylvan Advocate
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Ulvenwald Hydra
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Oath of Nissa
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Plains
3 Radiant Flames
2 World Breaker
4 Lambholt Pacifist
I haven't made any adjustments to it as I've only recently started to play it. Just a very strong solid deck. I also like how it feels different than traditional ramp, but still operates on the same axis. Oath of Nissa always hitting something you want is great too.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/9th-16th-decklists-2016-05-08
Pawn of Ulamog is more than likely just Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger.
Interesting take on it, no World breakers and 22 Land, But with 4 traverse and Oath I suppose you can get away with it
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I think there are a few reasons why there haven’t been many Ramp decks in the top 16/32 over the last two GP’s.
One is the fact that Ramp currently doesn’t have a best version for everyone to play. Unlike G/W Tokens or Bant CoCo decks that only have a few flex slots that differ between decks; which makes those two decks easier to put together and tune for the meta they feel they are going to face. Ramp can be built so many different ways; with the different versions working well against one type of meta; but not against another. For example G/R Googles Ramp is great against Bant CoCo and Human based decks; but struggles against G/W Tokens; Control and traditional G/R Ramp style decks. Then you have the version running Offshoots and Renewals that work great against Bant CoCo and Humans; and I feel it has game against G/W Token’s; but I also feel is weaker against control because it is slower so it doesn’t put any early pressure on the control decks. Which gives them time to play their game and setup the board to their liking.
Another reason is that G/W Tokens has exploded in popularity and that means people are looking for decks that give them an advantage against it. Which is why there was 3 control decks and 2 4C Cryptolith Rite decks in the top 8 at GPNY. The other 3 top 8 decks were G/W tokens. Out of the top 32 you had a total of 9 Control Decks and 9 Cryptolith decks and 8 G/W Token decks. There were 4 other archtypes that got a total of 5 decks in the top 32. So in the current meta you need to be playing a deck that either prey’s on the G/W Token deck or a deck that prey’s on the decks that prey on the G/W Token decks. The Cryptolith decks can be very explosive and can produce enough mana to dump their hand by turn 4 or even pull off a turn 3 CoCo.
And while G/R Ramp can do both (have game); it just hasn’t done it consistently enough for people to want to run it at GP level event. Which mean the number of G/R Ramp decks making it to day 2 is poor.
How to solve this issue is the question. Finding a build of the deck that is both consistent and powerful enough to win is the challenge. It looks based on the searching the SCG deck database that the versions running 4 Offshoots and at least 2 Renewals MD are putting up the best results. With 4 1st place and 7 2nd place and a few 3rd place finishes; at States along with the SCG Standard Open win.
So the tl;dr version is that we need to find a version of Ramp that is a) consistent and b) still powerful enough to deal with the top decks.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Standard: R/G Ramp 7-1-1.
Finalist SCG Milwaukee Classic
Modern: R/G Tron 0-0
Payed for with winnings from SCG Milwaukee
Anyone managed to put in some reps with Sam Blacks GP list?
I tried to build something like this but couldn't get it to run consistently enough.
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Den Protector
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 World Breaker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Ruinous Path
1 Languish
3 Dark Petition
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Seasons Past
1 The Great Aurora
1 Ultimate Price
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Mirrorpool
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Evolving Wilds
5 Swamp
8 Forest
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
3 Languish
1 Seasons Past
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 To the Slaughter
I've been building ramp, but not wanting to pull the trigger and play it due to the feeling that it loses to itself some portion of the time. But after getting mediocre results with "tier 1" decks and losing to Goggles Ramp, I decided that I wanted to be able to beat Goggles (#NotBitterAboutSellingMine) at least.
So I finalized a random ramp pile and took it to a 20 person midweek event in the DC area. Match 1, I sit down with 3 others at a table and 3 of us are on ramp. It turns out that half the room is on ramp and the other half is on salt. I go 3-1, coming in 4th. Ramp also finished first and second. I felt bad for the Esper Planeswalker player who was explaining how good his deck was while dropping (#sarcasm). I didn't feel too bad for the Seasons Past guy who maindecked Obliteration, but wouldn't shake after losing. I also beat a GR non-Googles Ramp deck that was playing lots of Jaddi Offshoots and a Rakdos control deck while losing to the Boros Thopter Eldrazi deck.
Last night I switched a few cards around and took it out again for a 14 person event. I punted two games in match 1 against BG Rites Sacrifice to lose 2-1. I didn't lose another game while going 3-1. I beat RG Rites, Grixis Control and Jund. Kozilek was great out of the sideboard, allowing me to counter an Act of Treason that would have been fatal if he had been an Ulamog and a flashed back (via Goblin Dark Dwellers) Foul Tongue Invocation. In the post-sideboard game against Jund, he cast Pick the Brain 3 times (once replayed with GDD) and Obliteration on Ulamog before World Breakers ate his mana base. He died without being able to cast more Obliterations that he had in his hand.
I have my build below, but I don't think it is right. I can't tell if dorks should be in the main, the side or not in the 75. In my first run-through, I hedged with 2 dorks, 2 Offshoots and 2 Kozilek's Return in the main, but otherwise the list was similar. I do recommend the following, which are probably too obvious to even mention:
2 Deathcap Cultivator
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Hedron Crawler
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Ulvenwald Hydra
2 Dragonlord Atarka
4 World Breaker
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
Enchantments
3 Oath of Nissa
Artifacts
3 Hedron Archive
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Nissa's Renewal
Land
4 Cinder Glade
2 Evolving Wilds
8 Forest
1 Game Trail
2 Mountain
3 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Wastes
3 Jaddi Offshoot
1 Clip Wings
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Tormenting Voice
4 Kozilek's Return
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Revisions:
Feedback welcomed! I hope this helps.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
ugly list
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
3x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Ruin in Their Wake
4x Lightning Axe
4x Den Protector
2x Sylvan Advocate
4x Deathmist Raptor
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Dragonlord Atarka
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Game Trail
2x Cinder Glade
10x Forest
3x Waste
2x Mountain
I don't remember what the sideboard was.
Went 3-1 at Tuesday Night Magic w/ this midrange/ramp monstrosity.
2-0 GB Rites
0-2 Wu Humans
2-0 GB Rites
2-0 Wg Humans
Deck sucked. It was roughly Ben Rubin's list from GP NYC and thrown together last minute. It's slow but probably has a fine MU vs. control. I guess I'l never know since I just never played against it.
The lists with Hydra look way better than this. I like.