Is anyone else finding an ungodly amount of mono-red in ranked? Been finding that at least 2/3rd of my games are vs red and almost all of the games start with the damn 1 damage sacrifice goblin.
Surge Mare seems like the best card in the deck vs red by a mile. Carried me so many times
I feel like more than 50% of my games on arena are mono red of some form, followed by Wx Aggro.
Week One, you have to be able to beat Boros Aggro and Mono-R Aggro. I suspect this is why Frank Karsten had two Surge Mare in the main.
I've been testing UW (if it takes off, probably need a new thread, though I am tempted to say this ought to be Island Tempo, so that mono-U vs. Azorius is less a thing because the differences are marginal), so here are a couple of quick thoughts:
1. It is possibleDeputy of Detention is a much better card than Exclusion Mage. 2/2 Main/Side. It is probably also the only Azorius card you want main. EDIT: On the other hand, and I have thought about this, Mage causes them to have to tap out again to replay the card and you don't really have to protect Mage. Deputy, on the other hand, is likely to be the target of removal, which will simply put what you exiled back play. But Depute hits all of the non-land permanents, and of course that, plus hitting multiples of the same target (token and non-token creatures alike) is the real appeal.
2. Depose // Deploy is better than Chart a Course, and Depose doesn't need W mana. Tap, Draw 1 at instant speed provides defense and draw, which is what a deck like our wants. The Deploy portion is potentially significant lifegain against aggro if they are just beating and burning. We will typically have 2 creatures out by turn 4, maybe 3, and Deploy will often buy us enough time to close the game.
I haven't tried it in the main, only in the sideboard, but I am happy giving it 2-3 slots.
3. I didn't want any other Azorius card.
4. Yes, sometimes you will get burned by buddy lands with Djinn, but it isn't that often. At the same time, you typically only need one W mana to be able to operate fully effectively.
5. I really like replacing Opt with Sphinx. Given the tempo nature of the deck, starting out aggressively into protection, with the slightly improved chance to get turn 1 creature, turn 2 Curious Obsession feels much better than holding up mana to draw into cards. I am going with Frank Karsten on this: 3 Sphinx, 21 lands, only keep opening hands with Sphinx or Obsession. So far, slightly, but noticeably, better results.
6. I swapped two Wizard's Retort for two Quench main, which has also felt good. I put the two Retorts in the sideboard.
7. Pteramander is amazing, but I am still on the fence about swapping out Mist-Cloaked Herald for it. Note, that if you want 4 Pteramander, you probably want to drop 3 Sphinx and the presumable 1-of additional 1 drop creature in favor of 4 Opt so your instant and sorcery count is 19, at least. I think 15 Instant and Sorcery is a bit light to convert Pteramander consistently, if you run 4. You could also swap the two Surge Mare for 2 Depose // Deploy to get up to 21. I think deciding on Pteramander as a 1-of or 4-of rests on this call to no small degree, otherwise it is a flying, but blockable, MCH in most games.
Deep Freeze for rando Niv-Mizzet? Maybe just another counterspell? I am betting the decks to beat are going to be Aggro; mid-range decks that figure they can beat aggro (GB, but also Boros/Naya Angels, what with sweepers that don't kill their own creatures, good targeted removal and aggressive creatures with lifegain and ways to use Shalai in Naya now); stupid Combo decks. I'm not sure how much Niv-Mizzet will be a thing Week One (except in the sideboard of the combo decks??), but I am betting that counters will be great.
The Tempest Djinn is going to be REALLY unhappy with the changes.
TD is now only 13 islands strong, that is 65% as powerful as normal. That blows.
If only power matters, each TD is now only 0.65 as strong, so 4x0.65 = 2.6 instead of 4.0
You have already lost 1.4 cards just to justify adding 2 off colour cards. That sucks.
And the White lands can hide making those 2 off colour cards regularly worthless. Only 8 White sources is not enough. I would want about 12, minimum.
And, When you draw 2 Glacial Fortress, it will suck.
Deputy of Detention & Depose//Deploy = Dunno
Deputy is a big change to bounce mage. (Hey Wow, He is a Wizard, Harry)
I can see how Deputy will come in handy, mostly.
The Tempest downgrade seems like a huge price to pay in the base deck just for two cards.
There are 36 Land + Spells, and Ptermander takes U7 to Adapt.
So, 36/60 = 60%
8 / 0.6 = 13.33
So, you should have enough to trigger the Adapt 7,8,9,10,11,12,13,...
On about turn 7 or 8
That seems unlikely, but certainly will happen sometimes.
Opt & Chart a Course significantly lower that turn number.
I spoze surge mare might help a little
Sphinx of Foresight might help once in play and Scye-ing
Curious Obsession will speed that up too.
But, really, once the Sphinx is in play, or the obsession is happening, Hopefully the game is done already.
I think the Quench is worse base deck that the Wizards retort.
4+4+2 = 10 Wiz
Hopefully the only turn Quench is going to be better is on turn 2 (when no Stormtamer), and every other turn it will be worse.
There will be times when a 3 cost WRetort is better than a 2 cost Quench.
The colourless aspect of the Quench just dont matter in a pure Blue deck.
To me, the weak cards still look like the Mist Cloaked Heralds. (and the white Taint)
I have played a few games with the Sphinx's, and Oh My! . . .they are good.
Essence capture is a strict upgrade, and I like that too.
( I still detest Surge Mage, but, red sucks. It is more than just chainwhirler. The flamekin pumping up per red spell is just obscene. And the Experiment at the end. Yuk. Them going first is a nightmare.
The other intellectual problem I have is Green going first, playing a forest + Elf, then Forest + Steel Leaf Champion. Looking at a Surge Mare while they have a Steel Leaf just blows.
I just can't justify playing Bounce Mage in the main since so many current creatures have ETB effects, and just a shell once they get there. Think Black/Green)
)
Hmmmmmm.
The Surge Mages seem a lot better when the Essence Capture gives them a Counter.
The Essence Captue makes a pretty huge difference in my game vs Red, I hope. Moving the Warkites to the board means only my 1 drops get wiped by the Whirler, so, If a ECapture puts a +1/+1 on one of them, or they are wearing an Obsession, just maybe the Whirler wont do anything special. Instead of being 'Scoop'.
The Sphinx can Block, as can the TD and Surge Mages.
The game has the potential to go long, so maybe the Pter will Adapt.
I like keeping the Opt since I am keeping 9 counters, 3 Dive, and the 4xTricksters and 4xSS can be used instants too.
Threatening to pump the Surge Mages will also require mana that does not get spent.
The 4xOpt also helps me feels safer to keep it to 20 land, especially since I am upping the 2 cost counters and defences with Surge Mare.
I think 3 Pter is maybe just fine, not 4, since the first will adapt and win the game, so i don't need the 2nd on board.
The sideboard is going to need some significant exposure to reality.
Being able to go full offence with the War kites seems interesting.
The Negates are going to be good against creatureless, and the Syncopates are there vs graveyard friendly stuff.
The spare Spell pierce and DD is in case of massed removal.
Mine looks different, as usual.
(We have 3 Sideboard cards the Same!)
After some testing tonight (6 games against a Reclamation-Nexus deck aka the deck made with two cards that are going to be banned...), a few more notes:
I don't like Sphinx, actually. If the deck was only about getting Curious Obsession, I can see it, but on the other hand, I find myself with them in hand for multiple turns without drawing land when what I need is an Opt or a Depose // Deploy to draw a counterspell. I also agree on the higher spell count to fuel Pteramander (that was my point, after all, in my post.) I think as much as we are an Obsession deck, we also have to be a tempo deck and more draw spells + 4 Pteramander is what I want to build around. If you think Djinn with a Glacial or two on the field is bad, try sitting at 3 lands with 2 Sphinx in hand, wishing you could draw some extra cards and counter the spell you know is coming.
I'm not arguing with your Djinn math. Sometimes it is going to hurt, but Pteramander changes how the deck plays an end game.
Deputy has been amazing so far, and I typically do not want to cast it turn 3, so I am not looking for a single white source until turns 4 or 5. 8 isn't optimal, but it is adequate with enough draw.
Retort definitely not replaceable. Quench is great against faster decks, but not control and combo.
I think your mix of Pierce and Capture is inverted. Nexus nonsense absolutely needs to be countered, as do red burn spells.
Playing 2, or 3 Sphinx instead of 4 really lowers those 2 and 3 Sphinx draws
Problem draws playing 2 Sphinx
A+B = 1
Problem draws playing 3 Sphinx
A+B, A+C, B+C = 3
A+B+C =1
Problem draws playing 4 Sphinx
A+B, A+C, B+C, A+D, B+D, C+D =6
A+B+C , A+B+D , A+C+D, B+C+D =4
A+B+C+D = 1
Now obviously each of those combinations has a different % of being drawn, but playing 2 or 3 still seems a very good idea.
The chance of getting mana screwed at 1,2 or 3 land is also worth thinking about.
Sure, it will happen that you get stuffed when you draw a Sphinx, and then another Sphinx, and never draw that 4th mana.
But I really do not think it is going to happen very often.
Sphinx's that start in your hand can help find extra mana, if you let them.
Opt (a card you were not playing) is really good at finding more mana.
Curious Obsession is also really good at finding more mana.
And, consider that if 20/60 are islands, 1/3rd of your deck is Islands, so, on about your 12th card you should see your 4th Island.
If one of those Sphinx start in your hand, you will see another 9 cards before you start the game. (The Sphinx is obviously not an Island.)
So, you should see Island number 4 on turn 4.
Island number 5 is MUCH harder to find, and really is not overly wanted by the deck.
Maybe Pter will change that. Either way, Opt wants in.
I am very happy with playing the 2 Sphinx, I have found, and plan on buying at least the 3rd.
And thanx on reminding me about Cunning Jace.
Reclamation Nexus seems a poor match up for Essence capture, but I am fuzzy on the deck.
Most people above are far more concerned with red.
I certainly am which is why I think
2 Spell Pierce
3 Essence Capture
Seems reasonable.
Doing an 11 card sideboard against Reclamation-Nexus seems OK
+4 Negate
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Syncopate
+4 Warkite Marauder
I should look up the deck and make sure I know what you are typing about so I have more clue what to remove.....It seems to be kinda ignored, and mostly fallen off the table. Creatureless, mostly.
I consider this deck an Obsession / Tempest Djinn Deck. That is why I think the Sphinx is SO GOOD
Sphinx finds and pumps Tempests, and then becomes a Tempest Djinn himself.
The Obsession bit is just the initial Slimey accidental throat grab.
.
So, Today has been odd.
It was 44' celcius, (so over 111'F if you are in a backwards country) and I wanted to play some standard.
I went to the first Store and asked about buying my 3rd Sphinx, and they wanted to sell it for $8, or I could get a Foil for $31. That is in Oz bucks, so who knows what that is in Euros.
Anyhoo, the standard didn't run because noone has the cards yet, and everyone was playing Draft instead.
So I high tailed it over to a different store and asked about their tournaments, and Sphinx.
They had a Sphinx for $7, and a draft only that was starting right now.
So, I drafted.
I went Green/Blue got a Sphinx of Foresight, and went 3/0
In draft, it is an easy card to win with.
I played a couple of social standard games also.
In Standard, it seems rather good too.
The deck hums.
my worry about cutting m/d pierce for essence capture is vs. any sort of midrange control deck or even monored I can't protect my obsessive one-drop with only 4 dive down. Retorting a shock feela pretty meh. Without getting extra cards every turn the deck is a bit underpowered (but can still just Djinn them out)
The Black/Green Midrange decks I play against play 4xRavenous Chupabura.
If "Retorting a shock feela pretty meh." then wouldn't you prefer a 3/3 Obsessive Creature where the Shock fails?
Dead weight too.
My problem was when I would draw Spell Pierce & Dive Down & Wizards Retort, Islands, and no Creatures, and lose.
Switching a couple of Spell Pierce / DD for Essence capture means counters on turns 1& (2) & 3 and just maybe staying in it.
Dive Down & Spell Pierce can be just dead when they cast a turn 2 Steel Leaf.
I aint claiming this is the finished, and best numbers.
Last night I played 2xSurge Mage into play, and all they did was be walls, which worked.
And I hate Surge Mage.
I had a game where I had a Sphinx in Opening, and the Scry 3 won the game, even though I never cast it. I just couldn't chance tapping out.
Dive Down works, mostly.
Spell pierce can fail, and just win the game.
Since both of them require a mana to work, and for that mana to be left open, 4xOpt seems required.
And at least some Sphinx, because they really are the glue that sticks that obsessive together.
Also, if you are worried about the Shock, you can just wait a turn, and use a Stormtamer for additional defence.
You are worried about the cherry on top.
Step One -> Island+Creature+Obsession
Step Two -> Island + Protect it
And I get that. But. Step two is only required once you have Step One
Having only step two has cost me games.
If I did not have Step two, I have learnt that against red, and Black, sometimes waiting a turn does win games.
Casting a second creature, like a Trickster or Warkite or Stormtamer, does suck out the poison.
Step two is important, no argument, But, it is not actually always required. They have to draw mana, and the kill spell.
Essence Capture can actually win the game by winning the race too.
If they just ignore the obsession and go hard, they can win.
Also, Plaguecrafter does not care about Spell Pierce, or Dive down.
Plaguecrafter is sad about Essence Capture.
I'll definitely try Karsten's list. I'm not surprised by seeing the 4x Opt out of the deck because of the Sphinxes, digging 3 cards deep at the beginning beats casting one Opt, and Warkite Marauder hasn't impressed me that much either, sure, it can help you attack through a Doom Whisperer or a Niv, but it often feels like running Sleep in your deck in the sense that sometimes it will help that last damage go through, but more often than not it won't have much effect in the game, what's the point of swinging with a Marauder and disabling a flying blocker if it's not making way for a big Djinn or a creature with obsession? Not to mention it's nearly useless against go-wide strategies, which are already the bane of the deck, so those MD Surge Mares can also help against random GW decks or something like that. And well, he puts Essence Capture as a 1-of, which is fine, I've always being totally opposed to maindecking too many copies of that card, a counter that can't hit a sweeper is a huge liability when you're playing a deck which relies so much on creatures.
"what's the point of swinging with a Marauder and disabling a flying blocker if it's not making way for a big Djinn or a creature with obsession"
. . . Because it IS the creature carrying the obsession?
Warkite flies, like a Pter, but it also flys through all other Flyers.
And it isn't the Stormtamer, so the stormtamer can interfere.
Warkite is the best creature to carry the Obsession, besides a Mistcloak.
And since Mistcloak isn't good enough without an obsession on it, Warkite seems OK.
(Mine are in sideboard though, not sure about that)
"a counter that can't hit a sweeper is a huge liability when you're playing a deck which relies so much on creatures."
And yet we are playing Dive Down.
"what's the point of swinging with a Marauder and disabling a flying blocker if it's not making way for a big Djinn or a creature with obsession"
. . . Because it IS the creature carrying the obsession?
Warkite flies, like a Pter, but it also flys through all other Flyers.
And it isn't the Stormtamer, so the stormtamer can interfere.
Warkite is the best creature to carry the Obsession, besides a Mistcloak.
And since Mistcloak isn't good enough without an obsession on it, Warkite seems OK.
(Mine are in sideboard though, not sure about that)
"a counter that can't hit a sweeper is a huge liability when you're playing a deck which relies so much on creatures."
And yet we are playing Dive Down.
Fair enough, 4x Dive Down already fails the sweeper test, so any more cards that do are a liability, especially considering that the deck can usually handle big creatures by using Retort, Trickster or simply by racing them with a large Djinn, our biggest weakness are the go-wide decks, and counters aren't so hot against those anyway, I've always supported Essence Capture as either a 1-of MD or as a SB card, but not as a 3-of (unless your local meta is packed with creatures), same with Warkite, I'll see when I start testing Karsten's build, but I suspect it will do better as a SB card to push that last damage through fliers, which is why I compare it to Sleep, you'd better win in that swing, because any counterattack from a pair of Drakes, or God forbid, a Lyra, can easily wreck you.
I like your 3x Pteramander. How's it been performing for you? I have high expectations for that critter.
Ive been looking through this thread for a while, and wanted yalls opinion on this list. I basically took what I liked from some of your lists and customized the sideboard to my FNM meta. Any feedback is appreaciated.
@magic_geek
Ok, you win. Has to be Mono-U to work. I've gotten tire of protecting Deputy of Detention and losing 1-2 damage on Djinn.
I think I am still running 3 Spell Pierce main, but only because I am only going to run 2 Sphinx and 3 Opt, with a Chart in the sideboard for the control-y matches.
The most disappointing card that still needs to be in the deck is Pteramander. Flying just isn't unblockable. On the other hand, I don't know the right mix. 3/1 Mist-Cloaked/Pteramander is what I am testing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
The argument for Sphinx is to get the nut draw more often. But so far I've found myself inching away from casting a turn-2 Curious Obsession, mainly because this deck is not a combo deck; it's a tempo/aggro-control deck. Hence, it's much more important to leave mana up for counterspells and to control the board than to go all-in; my results are much better when I'm patient with casting Obsession. And even with Sphinx, the nut draw of turn-2 Curious Obsession + Spell Pierce/Dive Down still didn't happen often enough to be worth the times I drew Sphinx after the opening hand and never got to cast it the whole game.
Another argument for Sphinx is to smooth out mana in the early turns. I've dropped the Sphinx and gone for 21 lands with 4 Opts (which fuel Pteramander, see below), and so far it hasn't been problematic.
I have dropped Mist-Cloaked Herald for Pteramander. The latter is just a much better late-game card. It's almost always a grind after sideboard and a 5/5 flyer is just much better than an unblockable 1/1. The only place where I miss the Herald is in the mirror, which obviously doesn't come up very often.
I've also swapped the 1 maindeck Chart the Course for Precognitive Perception. This card helps so much when the game goes long or when I'm flooding out. There were a few times when I wished it had been Chart the Course, but so far it has pulled enough weight for me to keep trying it. Still on the fence about this, but not disliking it either.
Precognitive Perception Now there is a commitment. A sideboard card with heft.
Not sure I would play it, but it is going to have a big effect when it happens.
I like it.
Thought a lot about it when I first read it, but, at 5 cost you are really going to want to go heavy counterspells so you get to turn 7ish. And then longer to use the cards.
Maybe Diamond mare could help.
And Surge Mare
.
The argument for Sphinx is WAY more than just the nut draw.
It finds Islands, it finds the right creatures instead of mana floods, it find counterspells, it has a scry ability, it flies, it is a 4/4 for 4.
It screams PLAY ME !
But, you don't have to. Mono U seems to be like that. It really is the Cherry on top of the deck.
I can see how if you are focused on Pter working, it kinda doesn't fit.
Me, I see Pter as an accidental bonus thumper, not even a plan.
.
Hey Equalizer, That is a fine build on Mono-U.
The only problem it has is too few land.
Drop a Sphinx and a Chart the course (or Two) for Islands.
Personally I do not rate :
1 Uncomfortable Chill
2 Deep Freeze
1 Crafty Cutpurse
1 Sleep
As particularly good in the sideboard, but everyone has opinions.
Feel free to report on how these are working out for you in actual matches.
Maybe my mistake with Sphinx was that I didn't mulligan aggressively enough--something Sphinx can help with a lot.
That said, I've been really impressed with Pteramander. It has a lot of staying power, is a fine topdeck, and allows for effective racing. Yesterday, I outraced a BG deck on the back of two adapted Pteramanders, even after my opponent had gained 18 life. Mist-Cloaked Herald would've had no chance in accomplishing the same feat. Now, Sphinx and Opt kinda fight for the same slots, and Opt works much better when Pteramander is in the deck. Hence, it doesn't make sense to eschew Opt for Sphinx if you want to play Pteramander.
Another thing is that Precognitive Perception works better with Opt than Sphinx. Sphinx fixes your draws but in general doesn't result in having a lot of lands in play. OTOH, Opt allows you to draw more cards and thus make more land drops. Therefore, I think that if you pick Sphinx then it doesn't make sense to try Precognitive Perception, whereas if you opt for Opt then 1 Precognitive Perception is not entirely unreasonable.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
So I went looking to find any other decks playing in the new format, because 'DenisevichAlexey' plays 2x Essence capture instead of Chart a Course, and thats about it.
I found another 5/0 deck doing basically the same thing. Yawn.
But that's about it.
You will need to auto-translate, but Wow!, The whole concept of just pressing a button and auto-translating from Russian is mind blowing.
The link shows a collection of Russians typing about exactly the same cards as Us.
'Sphinx' appears 30 times on that page.
People taking the same positions, even typing about similar changes, and card numbers.
There is even the same off-topic stuff I typed about - turn 2 Steel Leaf !
Cool !
Hey Wow!, on the next page is the boring LoveP deck I mentioned in first paragraph.
I thought about, and sort of like, the 12 1 drop creatures. 19 lands is a bit greedy given the sideboard (that CMC goes up quite a bit and I would prefer more counter to Melody), and I still have reservations about the mix of 21 spells, since only 2 Dive Down seems light, but i can say that looking at all of the Esper Control, Esper Midrange, and Sultai Midrange. On the other hand, if the top of your curve is 3 and you run 6 draw spells + Obsession, maybe 19 is all you need. I'd be curious to hear if he had mana issues.
Sadly, the best result in the Open proper was Kat Light 52nd Place at StarCityGames.com Open on 1/26/2019 Standard
I have to say, I really, really do not like Biomancer in the deck. No evasion is a huge problem. However, swap the Biomancers and Quenches for 4 Mist-Cloaked and you have almost the same 60. This build is even more all-in on Ptreramander with 18 creatures and 23 spells.
What I would love to hear from both of them is how they did against 1) Mono-R and Mono-W/Azorius Aggro Matches and 2) Esper/Sultai Midrange.
How do people here handle Hydroid Krasis? I have found it to be quite a beating. The cast trigger gives the opponent too many cards and life points for us to keep up, and we have no good way to deal with that.
@redtwister - doubt mason had mana issues, and for kat light's deck. I can't comment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
@ShinyMan
I agree with kysg, the main thing is to not let it resolve. Sure, they gain life and draw, and we can't stop that, but you definitely can't allow it to resolve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
All my games versus Mono Red have been on the ladder, so no SBs yet, sorry.
I feel like more than 50% of my games on arena are mono red of some form, followed by Wx Aggro.
I've been testing UW (if it takes off, probably need a new thread, though I am tempted to say this ought to be Island Tempo, so that mono-U vs. Azorius is less a thing because the differences are marginal), so here are a couple of quick thoughts:
1. It is possible Deputy of Detention is a much better card than Exclusion Mage. 2/2 Main/Side. It is probably also the only Azorius card you want main. EDIT: On the other hand, and I have thought about this, Mage causes them to have to tap out again to replay the card and you don't really have to protect Mage. Deputy, on the other hand, is likely to be the target of removal, which will simply put what you exiled back play. But Depute hits all of the non-land permanents, and of course that, plus hitting multiples of the same target (token and non-token creatures alike) is the real appeal.
2. Depose // Deploy is better than Chart a Course, and Depose doesn't need W mana. Tap, Draw 1 at instant speed provides defense and draw, which is what a deck like our wants. The Deploy portion is potentially significant lifegain against aggro if they are just beating and burning. We will typically have 2 creatures out by turn 4, maybe 3, and Deploy will often buy us enough time to close the game.
I haven't tried it in the main, only in the sideboard, but I am happy giving it 2-3 slots.
3. I didn't want any other Azorius card.
4. Yes, sometimes you will get burned by buddy lands with Djinn, but it isn't that often. At the same time, you typically only need one W mana to be able to operate fully effectively.
5. I really like replacing Opt with Sphinx. Given the tempo nature of the deck, starting out aggressively into protection, with the slightly improved chance to get turn 1 creature, turn 2 Curious Obsession feels much better than holding up mana to draw into cards. I am going with Frank Karsten on this: 3 Sphinx, 21 lands, only keep opening hands with Sphinx or Obsession. So far, slightly, but noticeably, better results.
6. I swapped two Wizard's Retort for two Quench main, which has also felt good. I put the two Retorts in the sideboard.
7. Pteramander is amazing, but I am still on the fence about swapping out Mist-Cloaked Herald for it. Note, that if you want 4 Pteramander, you probably want to drop 3 Sphinx and the presumable 1-of additional 1 drop creature in favor of 4 Opt so your instant and sorcery count is 19, at least. I think 15 Instant and Sorcery is a bit light to convert Pteramander consistently, if you run 4. You could also swap the two Surge Mare for 2 Depose // Deploy to get up to 21. I think deciding on Pteramander as a 1-of or 4-of rests on this call to no small degree, otherwise it is a flying, but blockable, MCH in most games.
Preliminary List for this weekend:
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald
1 Pteramander
4 Merfolk Trickster
2 Surge Mare
4 Tempest Djinn
2 Deputy of Detention
3 Sphinx of Foresight
4 Curious Obsession
4 Dive Down
2 Spell Pierce
1 Essence Capture
2 Wizard’s Retort
2 Quench
Lands 21
13 Island
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Depose // Deploy
2 Wizard's Retort
2 Essence Capture
2 Negate
2 Surge Mare
2 Deputy of Detention
1 Sleep
1 Deep Freeze
Deep Freeze for rando Niv-Mizzet? Maybe just another counterspell? I am betting the decks to beat are going to be Aggro; mid-range decks that figure they can beat aggro (GB, but also Boros/Naya Angels, what with sweepers that don't kill their own creatures, good targeted removal and aggressive creatures with lifegain and ways to use Shalai in Naya now); stupid Combo decks. I'm not sure how much Niv-Mizzet will be a thing Week One (except in the sideboard of the combo decks??), but I am betting that counters will be great.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
TD is now only 13 islands strong, that is 65% as powerful as normal. That blows.
If only power matters, each TD is now only 0.65 as strong, so 4x0.65 = 2.6 instead of 4.0
You have already lost 1.4 cards just to justify adding 2 off colour cards. That sucks.
And the White lands can hide making those 2 off colour cards regularly worthless. Only 8 White sources is not enough. I would want about 12, minimum.
And, When you draw 2 Glacial Fortress, it will suck.
Deputy of Detention & Depose//Deploy = Dunno
Deputy is a big change to bounce mage. (Hey Wow, He is a Wizard, Harry)
I can see how Deputy will come in handy, mostly.
The Tempest downgrade seems like a huge price to pay in the base deck just for two cards.
There are 36 Land + Spells, and Ptermander takes U7 to Adapt.
So, 36/60 = 60%
8 / 0.6 = 13.33
So, you should have enough to trigger the Adapt 7,8,9,10,11,12,13,...
On about turn 7 or 8
That seems unlikely, but certainly will happen sometimes.
Opt & Chart a Course significantly lower that turn number.
I spoze surge mare might help a little
Sphinx of Foresight might help once in play and Scye-ing
Curious Obsession will speed that up too.
But, really, once the Sphinx is in play, or the obsession is happening, Hopefully the game is done already.
I think the Quench is worse base deck that the Wizards retort.
4+4+2 = 10 Wiz
Hopefully the only turn Quench is going to be better is on turn 2 (when no Stormtamer), and every other turn it will be worse.
There will be times when a 3 cost WRetort is better than a 2 cost Quench.
The colourless aspect of the Quench just dont matter in a pure Blue deck.
To me, the weak cards still look like the Mist Cloaked Heralds. (and the white Taint)
I have played a few games with the Sphinx's, and Oh My! . . .they are good.
Essence capture is a strict upgrade, and I like that too.
( I still detest Surge Mage, but, red sucks. It is more than just chainwhirler. The flamekin pumping up per red spell is just obscene. And the Experiment at the end. Yuk. Them going first is a nightmare.
The other intellectual problem I have is Green going first, playing a forest + Elf, then Forest + Steel Leaf Champion. Looking at a Surge Mare while they have a Steel Leaf just blows.
I just can't justify playing Bounce Mage in the main since so many current creatures have ETB effects, and just a shell once they get there. Think Black/Green)
)
Hmmmmmm.
4 Siren Stormtamer
3 Pteramander
4 Merfolk Trickster
2 Surge Mare
4 Tempest Djinn
3 Sphinx of Foresight
4 Curious Obsession
3 Dive Down
2 Spell Pierce
3 Essence Capture
4 Wizard’s Retort
4 Opt
1 Essence Capture
4 Negate
1 Dive Down
1 Spell Pierce
4 Warkite Marauder
2 Exclusion Mage
2 Syncopate
The Surge Mages seem a lot better when the Essence Capture gives them a Counter.
The Essence Captue makes a pretty huge difference in my game vs Red, I hope. Moving the Warkites to the board means only my 1 drops get wiped by the Whirler, so, If a ECapture puts a +1/+1 on one of them, or they are wearing an Obsession, just maybe the Whirler wont do anything special. Instead of being 'Scoop'.
The Sphinx can Block, as can the TD and Surge Mages.
The game has the potential to go long, so maybe the Pter will Adapt.
I like keeping the Opt since I am keeping 9 counters, 3 Dive, and the 4xTricksters and 4xSS can be used instants too.
Threatening to pump the Surge Mages will also require mana that does not get spent.
The 4xOpt also helps me feels safer to keep it to 20 land, especially since I am upping the 2 cost counters and defences with Surge Mare.
I think 3 Pter is maybe just fine, not 4, since the first will adapt and win the game, so i don't need the 2nd on board.
The sideboard is going to need some significant exposure to reality.
Being able to go full offence with the War kites seems interesting.
The Negates are going to be good against creatureless, and the Syncopates are there vs graveyard friendly stuff.
The spare Spell pierce and DD is in case of massed removal.
Mine looks different, as usual.
(We have 3 Sideboard cards the Same!)
I don't like Sphinx, actually. If the deck was only about getting Curious Obsession, I can see it, but on the other hand, I find myself with them in hand for multiple turns without drawing land when what I need is an Opt or a Depose // Deploy to draw a counterspell. I also agree on the higher spell count to fuel Pteramander (that was my point, after all, in my post.) I think as much as we are an Obsession deck, we also have to be a tempo deck and more draw spells + 4 Pteramander is what I want to build around. If you think Djinn with a Glacial or two on the field is bad, try sitting at 3 lands with 2 Sphinx in hand, wishing you could draw some extra cards and counter the spell you know is coming.
I'm not arguing with your Djinn math. Sometimes it is going to hurt, but Pteramander changes how the deck plays an end game.
Deputy has been amazing so far, and I typically do not want to cast it turn 3, so I am not looking for a single white source until turns 4 or 5. 8 isn't optimal, but it is adequate with enough draw.
Retort definitely not replaceable. Quench is great against faster decks, but not control and combo.
I think your mix of Pierce and Capture is inverted. Nexus nonsense absolutely needs to be countered, as do red burn spells.
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Pteramander
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Tempest Djinn
1 Surge Mare
2 Deputy of Detention
Spells 21
4 Curious Obsession
4 Dive Down
4 Wizard’s Retort
3 Opt
3 Spell Pierce
2 Depose // Deploy
1 Essence Capture
12 Island
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Negate
2 Essence Capture
2 Surge Mare
2 Deputy of Detention
2 Jace, Cunning Castaway
1 Sleep
1 Entrancing Melody
1 Disdainful Stroke
If the format slows down, I can see risking some Sphinx in place of Surge Mare and going up a land.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Problem draws playing 2 Sphinx
A+B = 1
Problem draws playing 3 Sphinx
A+B, A+C, B+C = 3
A+B+C =1
Problem draws playing 4 Sphinx
A+B, A+C, B+C, A+D, B+D, C+D =6
A+B+C , A+B+D , A+C+D, B+C+D =4
A+B+C+D = 1
Now obviously each of those combinations has a different % of being drawn, but playing 2 or 3 still seems a very good idea.
The chance of getting mana screwed at 1,2 or 3 land is also worth thinking about.
Sure, it will happen that you get stuffed when you draw a Sphinx, and then another Sphinx, and never draw that 4th mana.
But I really do not think it is going to happen very often.
Sphinx's that start in your hand can help find extra mana, if you let them.
Opt (a card you were not playing) is really good at finding more mana.
Curious Obsession is also really good at finding more mana.
And, consider that if 20/60 are islands, 1/3rd of your deck is Islands, so, on about your 12th card you should see your 4th Island.
If one of those Sphinx start in your hand, you will see another 9 cards before you start the game. (The Sphinx is obviously not an Island.)
So, you should see Island number 4 on turn 4.
Island number 5 is MUCH harder to find, and really is not overly wanted by the deck.
Maybe Pter will change that. Either way, Opt wants in.
I am very happy with playing the 2 Sphinx, I have found, and plan on buying at least the 3rd.
And thanx on reminding me about Cunning Jace.
Reclamation Nexus seems a poor match up for Essence capture, but I am fuzzy on the deck.
Most people above are far more concerned with red.
I certainly am which is why I think
2 Spell Pierce
3 Essence Capture
Seems reasonable.
Doing an 11 card sideboard against Reclamation-Nexus seems OK
+4 Negate
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Syncopate
+4 Warkite Marauder
I should look up the deck and make sure I know what you are typing about so I have more clue what to remove.....It seems to be kinda ignored, and mostly fallen off the table. Creatureless, mostly.
I consider this deck an Obsession / Tempest Djinn Deck. That is why I think the Sphinx is SO GOOD
Sphinx finds and pumps Tempests, and then becomes a Tempest Djinn himself.
The Obsession bit is just the initial Slimey accidental throat grab.
.
So, Today has been odd.
It was 44' celcius, (so over 111'F if you are in a backwards country) and I wanted to play some standard.
I went to the first Store and asked about buying my 3rd Sphinx, and they wanted to sell it for $8, or I could get a Foil for $31. That is in Oz bucks, so who knows what that is in Euros.
Anyhoo, the standard didn't run because noone has the cards yet, and everyone was playing Draft instead.
So I high tailed it over to a different store and asked about their tournaments, and Sphinx.
They had a Sphinx for $7, and a draft only that was starting right now.
So, I drafted.
I went Green/Blue got a Sphinx of Foresight, and went 3/0
In draft, it is an easy card to win with.
I played a couple of social standard games also.
In Standard, it seems rather good too.
The deck hums.
Looking forward it playing it for real.
The Black/Green Midrange decks I play against play 4xRavenous Chupabura.
If "Retorting a shock feela pretty meh." then wouldn't you prefer a 3/3 Obsessive Creature where the Shock fails?
Dead weight too.
My problem was when I would draw Spell Pierce & Dive Down & Wizards Retort, Islands, and no Creatures, and lose.
Switching a couple of Spell Pierce / DD for Essence capture means counters on turns 1& (2) & 3 and just maybe staying in it.
Dive Down & Spell Pierce can be just dead when they cast a turn 2 Steel Leaf.
I aint claiming this is the finished, and best numbers.
Last night I played 2xSurge Mage into play, and all they did was be walls, which worked.
And I hate Surge Mage.
I had a game where I had a Sphinx in Opening, and the Scry 3 won the game, even though I never cast it. I just couldn't chance tapping out.
Dive Down works, mostly.
Spell pierce can fail, and just win the game.
Since both of them require a mana to work, and for that mana to be left open, 4xOpt seems required.
And at least some Sphinx, because they really are the glue that sticks that obsessive together.
Also, if you are worried about the Shock, you can just wait a turn, and use a Stormtamer for additional defence.
You are worried about the cherry on top.
Step One -> Island+Creature+Obsession
Step Two -> Island + Protect it
And I get that. But. Step two is only required once you have Step One
Having only step two has cost me games.
If I did not have Step two, I have learnt that against red, and Black, sometimes waiting a turn does win games.
Casting a second creature, like a Trickster or Warkite or Stormtamer, does suck out the poison.
Step two is important, no argument, But, it is not actually always required. They have to draw mana, and the kill spell.
Essence Capture can actually win the game by winning the race too.
If they just ignore the obsession and go hard, they can win.
Also, Plaguecrafter does not care about Spell Pierce, or Dive down.
Plaguecrafter is sad about Essence Capture.
4 merfolk trickster
4 pteramander
4 siren stormchaser
4 sphinx of foresight
4 tempest djinn
4 arrester’s admonition (Repulse!)
4 curious obsession
4 dive down
4 essence capture
4 opt
4 scrabbling claws
4 surge mare
4 wizard’s retort
3 ???
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
. . . Because it IS the creature carrying the obsession?
Warkite flies, like a Pter, but it also flys through all other Flyers.
And it isn't the Stormtamer, so the stormtamer can interfere.
Warkite is the best creature to carry the Obsession, besides a Mistcloak.
And since Mistcloak isn't good enough without an obsession on it, Warkite seems OK.
(Mine are in sideboard though, not sure about that)
"a counter that can't hit a sweeper is a huge liability when you're playing a deck which relies so much on creatures."
And yet we are playing Dive Down.
Fair enough, 4x Dive Down already fails the sweeper test, so any more cards that do are a liability, especially considering that the deck can usually handle big creatures by using Retort, Trickster or simply by racing them with a large Djinn, our biggest weakness are the go-wide decks, and counters aren't so hot against those anyway, I've always supported Essence Capture as either a 1-of MD or as a SB card, but not as a 3-of (unless your local meta is packed with creatures), same with Warkite, I'll see when I start testing Karsten's build, but I suspect it will do better as a SB card to push that last damage through fliers, which is why I compare it to Sleep, you'd better win in that swing, because any counterattack from a pair of Drakes, or God forbid, a Lyra, can easily wreck you.
I like your 3x Pteramander. How's it been performing for you? I have high expectations for that critter.
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Dive Down
4 Opt
4 Curious Obsession
2 Essence Capture
2 Spell Pierce
1 Warkite Marauder
4 Merfolk Trickster
2 Chart a Course
4 Tempest Djinn
4 Wizard's Retort
3 Sphinx of Foresight
18 Island
Sideboard
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Syncopate
2 Surge Mare
1 Uncomfortable Chill
2 Diamond Mare
1 Negate
1 Selective Snare
2 Deep Freeze
1 Crafty Cutpurse
1 Warkite Marauder
1 Sleep
Ok, you win. Has to be Mono-U to work. I've gotten tire of protecting Deputy of Detention and losing 1-2 damage on Djinn.
I think I am still running 3 Spell Pierce main, but only because I am only going to run 2 Sphinx and 3 Opt, with a Chart in the sideboard for the control-y matches.
The most disappointing card that still needs to be in the deck is Pteramander. Flying just isn't unblockable. On the other hand, I don't know the right mix. 3/1 Mist-Cloaked/Pteramander is what I am testing.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
The argument for Sphinx is to get the nut draw more often. But so far I've found myself inching away from casting a turn-2 Curious Obsession, mainly because this deck is not a combo deck; it's a tempo/aggro-control deck. Hence, it's much more important to leave mana up for counterspells and to control the board than to go all-in; my results are much better when I'm patient with casting Obsession. And even with Sphinx, the nut draw of turn-2 Curious Obsession + Spell Pierce/Dive Down still didn't happen often enough to be worth the times I drew Sphinx after the opening hand and never got to cast it the whole game.
Another argument for Sphinx is to smooth out mana in the early turns. I've dropped the Sphinx and gone for 21 lands with 4 Opts (which fuel Pteramander, see below), and so far it hasn't been problematic.
I have dropped Mist-Cloaked Herald for Pteramander. The latter is just a much better late-game card. It's almost always a grind after sideboard and a 5/5 flyer is just much better than an unblockable 1/1. The only place where I miss the Herald is in the mirror, which obviously doesn't come up very often.
I've also swapped the 1 maindeck Chart the Course for Precognitive Perception. This card helps so much when the game goes long or when I'm flooding out. There were a few times when I wished it had been Chart the Course, but so far it has pulled enough weight for me to keep trying it. Still on the fence about this, but not disliking it either.
Not sure I would play it, but it is going to have a big effect when it happens.
I like it.
Thought a lot about it when I first read it, but, at 5 cost you are really going to want to go heavy counterspells so you get to turn 7ish. And then longer to use the cards.
Maybe Diamond mare could help.
And Surge Mare
.
The argument for Sphinx is WAY more than just the nut draw.
It finds Islands, it finds the right creatures instead of mana floods, it find counterspells, it has a scry ability, it flies, it is a 4/4 for 4.
It screams PLAY ME !
But, you don't have to. Mono U seems to be like that. It really is the Cherry on top of the deck.
I can see how if you are focused on Pter working, it kinda doesn't fit.
Me, I see Pter as an accidental bonus thumper, not even a plan.
.
Hey Equalizer, That is a fine build on Mono-U.
The only problem it has is too few land.
Drop a Sphinx and a Chart the course (or Two) for Islands.
Personally I do not rate :
1 Uncomfortable Chill
2 Deep Freeze
1 Crafty Cutpurse
1 Sleep
As particularly good in the sideboard, but everyone has opinions.
Feel free to report on how these are working out for you in actual matches.
.
@ Redtwister ->
That said, I've been really impressed with Pteramander. It has a lot of staying power, is a fine topdeck, and allows for effective racing. Yesterday, I outraced a BG deck on the back of two adapted Pteramanders, even after my opponent had gained 18 life. Mist-Cloaked Herald would've had no chance in accomplishing the same feat. Now, Sphinx and Opt kinda fight for the same slots, and Opt works much better when Pteramander is in the deck. Hence, it doesn't make sense to eschew Opt for Sphinx if you want to play Pteramander.
Another thing is that Precognitive Perception works better with Opt than Sphinx. Sphinx fixes your draws but in general doesn't result in having a lot of lands in play. OTOH, Opt allows you to draw more cards and thus make more land drops. Therefore, I think that if you pick Sphinx then it doesn't make sense to try Precognitive Perception, whereas if you opt for Opt then 1 Precognitive Perception is not entirely unreasonable.
20 Island
Creatures (20)
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Mist-cloaked Herald
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Tempest Djinn
4 Warkite Marauder
4 Curious Obsession
2 Essence Capture
4 Dive Down
2 Spell Pierce
4 Wizard's Retort
2 Exclusion Mage
3 Negate
3 Surge Mare
2 Entrancing Melody
1 Spell Pierce
1 Essence Capture
1 Deep Freeze
2 Sleep
-Stay Frosty
I found another 5/0 deck doing basically the same thing. Yawn.
But that's about it.
Then I came across this . . .
https://topdeck.ru/forums/topic/141831-mono-blue-tempo/?page=3
You will need to auto-translate, but Wow!, The whole concept of just pressing a button and auto-translating from Russian is mind blowing.
The link shows a collection of Russians typing about exactly the same cards as Us.
'Sphinx' appears 30 times on that page.
People taking the same positions, even typing about similar changes, and card numbers.
There is even the same off-topic stuff I typed about - turn 2 Steel Leaf !
Cool !
Hey Wow!, on the next page is the boring LoveP deck I mentioned in first paragraph.
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Tempest Djinn
4 Warkite Marauder
Instant
4 Dive Down
1 Lookout's Dispersal
4 Opt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Wizard's Retort
1 Chart a Course
Enchantment
4 Curious Obsession
Land
20 Island
2 Diamond Mare
1 Disdainful Stroke
3 Essence Capture
2 Exclusion Mage
1 Gateway Sneak
1 Negate
1 Sleep
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surge Mare
1 Transmogrifying Wand
(It has a Transmogrifying Wand in the board! - Don't it does not work)
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald
4 Pteramander
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Tempest Djinn
Lands (19)
19 Island
4 Curious Obsession
2 Dive Down
3 Essence Capture
4 Opt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Wizard's Retort
2 Chart a Course
1 Diamond Mare
2 Exclusion Mage
2 Blink of an Eye
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dive Down
2 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Jace, Cunning Castaway
2 Entrancing Melody
2 Sleep
I thought about, and sort of like, the 12 1 drop creatures. 19 lands is a bit greedy given the sideboard (that CMC goes up quite a bit and I would prefer more counter to Melody), and I still have reservations about the mix of 21 spells, since only 2 Dive Down seems light, but i can say that looking at all of the Esper Control, Esper Midrange, and Sultai Midrange. On the other hand, if the top of your curve is 3 and you run 6 draw spells + Obsession, maybe 19 is all you need. I'd be curious to hear if he had mana issues.
Sadly, the best result in the Open proper was Kat Light 52nd Place at StarCityGames.com Open on 1/26/2019 Standard
2 Benthic Biomancer
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Pteramander
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Tempest Djinn
Lands (19)
19 Island
Spells (23)
4 Curious Obsession
3 Dive Down
2 Essence Capture
4 Opt
2 Quench
2 Spell Pierce
4 Wizard's Retort
2 Chart a Course
4 Diamond Mare
2 Exclusion Mage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dive Down
2 Negate
2 Entrancing Melody
2 Sleep
I have to say, I really, really do not like Biomancer in the deck. No evasion is a huge problem. However, swap the Biomancers and Quenches for 4 Mist-Cloaked and you have almost the same 60. This build is even more all-in on Ptreramander with 18 creatures and 23 spells.
What I would love to hear from both of them is how they did against 1) Mono-R and Mono-W/Azorius Aggro Matches and 2) Esper/Sultai Midrange.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
2x Entrancing Melody?
@redtwister - doubt mason had mana issues, and for kat light's deck. I can't comment.
-Stay Frosty
I agree with kysg, the main thing is to not let it resolve. Sure, they gain life and draw, and we can't stop that, but you definitely can't allow it to resolve.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXP5to13hy8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruacew2mMa0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjToNQaJHV8