I'll ask... I've been playing similar on MTG Arena for a while now and it's probably a much different meta, but I'd love to know a few things or at least get your opinions...
1) How did you feel about Ritual of Soot? Do you feel you could support white sweepers by including Treasure Map?
I view Ritual as a necessary evil. However, it is better than it appears. It's good in every match save for Jeskai and Izzet (It does blow up the 3 mana Drake though, a bonus G1). This build is VERY light on white, so I wouldn't risk depending on Map mana to sweep. Having one in your opener allows you to sequence differently than normal. Smart players will prepare, but with spot removal that gains life, this is usually a lose-lose for aggro. In my ideal world, Supreme Verdict will get reprinted, and Hallowed Fountain will allow me to cast it, but I think I stay with Ritual. I don't want to ramp my opponents into Niv-Mizzet and Banefire, two of the most dangerous cards for this deck (3 is Carnage Tyrant).
2) Was Disdainful Stroke worth a maindeck slot? I asked the same thing, but it worked out well. Great against GB, anything with Crackling Drake. Bad against red and white weenie, but I never drew it and was screwed. Also, the red I played against was Goblins, so I had Trashmaster and Frenzy to counter with it. I filtered and drew so many cards with Map/Teferi, that it never bit me. Same with Negate, though Negate is probably a bit more versatile.
3) No Thought Erasure in the 75? Would you consider it the next time out if you play this? No. I tried builds with it main and SB before, and did badly. I love it, but I feel it is best in a Disinformation Campaign deck. I've seen Esper decks with the combo, but this is reactive, so we're not in much need of it.
4) I've found the Golgari match-up to be build dependent. Was there anything special about that match you remember? As I've said before, Detection Tower makes this match winnable, especially game 1. Without it, it's can you find and flash in Chromium and win before Carnage Tyrant kills you. He stumbled on mana G1 so I killed and countered everything after cleaning up with Ritual. I make sure whenever possible to save a Contempt for that stupid Reaper, he's very bad for us. G2, he drew better, but I kept up, took two or three hits from a Branchwalker or Ranger to play Thief Of Sanity. Thief decided to hit every time, and I steam rolled him. A highlight was him exploring a Carnage Tyrant away to keep him from me. LOL. I landed a second after playing a Ranger to clog the ground. Then, I found Tyrant and something else good. He scooped to Tyrant when I went to play another of his cards that turn. Since they all but abandoned Assassin's Trophy, their Contempts are stretched between Teferi, Thief and whatever you can take with Thief. Also, if I draw both Unmoored Ego, the 1st takes Tyrant, unless I have double Tower and a draw engine/multiple kill spells including at least 1 Contempt. Next, I take Contempt. If they can't kill Teferi and Thief, they usually lose.
A side note (not to you, in general): Going to say "I told you so" on Detection Tower. It also beats Dive Down. I had my Jeskai opponent cast it to save Niv-Mizzet from a Contempt. I activate. He Dives again thinking it would work. I look at him, tell him Niv dies anyway. He calls the judge, confirms I'm right, loses his Niv, and then gets beat up by Chromium. I don't think Esper works right now without Tower. Mono Blue is a terrible match unless they draw badly, and it blanks the 4 main deck Dives they play.
Congrats on the great result! Awesome to see you running Unmoored Ego. Love that card.
I don't get why so many pick Golden Demise over Ritual of Soot. Ritual is insane.
I love Esper Control. Going to run a bad variation of it at my next FNM, but I'll have fun doing it hehe. I run more white to have access to Lyra and Settle. I only have two Teferi though...
How did you like having so many moment of cravings? Last time I ran esper I had 2 or 3 main and the rest in the sideboard, but every single time I drev one I wish it had been a Cast Down which I only had two of. My current build has no moment of craving and four cast down main deck (pseudo Fatal Push...) so I will most definiteley be up against decks with lots of Adanto Vanguards hehe.
Congrats on the great result! Awesome to see you running Unmoored Ego. Love that card.
I don't get why so many pick Golden Demise over Ritual of Soot. Ritual is insane.
I love Esper Control. Going to run a bad variation of it at my next FNM, but I'll have fun doing it hehe. I run more white to have access to Lyra and Settle. I only have two Teferi though...
How did you like having so many moment of cravings? Last time I ran esper I had 2 or 3 main and the rest in the sideboard, but every single time I drev one I wish it had been a Cast Down which I only had two of. My current build has no moment of craving and four cast down main deck (pseudo Fatal Push...) so I will most definiteley be up against decks with lots of Adanto Vanguards hehe.
Thank you!
Moment Of Craving is amazing right now. The life helps you stay out of Banefire range, along with being cheap, and dealing with Adanto Vanguard. It's way too good vs. Red and White Aggro to not run right now. It also is underrated vs. Golgari and Izzet Phoenix (Phoenix and Electromancer). I feel the same way about not having the right answer, but it is a necessary evil. I can't wait for Mortify, as I think I finally get to hang up the Cast Downs for good, and have more enchantment removal, easing the need for Invoke The Divine. It was hard cutting the 2nd Invoke, but it paid off.
Unfortunately, there is no substitute for Teferi. Off the top of my head, I would add additional The Eldest Reborns, so you can get yours back, along with the utility. Sagas are like fixed 3 use planeswalkers. Hopefully,you can pull off some wins, and earn your other 2 Teferis with store credit or trades. Good luck!
I'll ask... I've been playing similar on MTG Arena for a while now and it's probably a much different meta, but I'd love to know a few things or at least get your opinions...
1) How did you feel about Ritual of Soot? Do you feel you could support white sweepers by including Treasure Map?
I view Ritual as a necessary evil. However, it is better than it appears. It's good in every match save for Jeskai and Izzet (It does blow up the 3 mana Drake though, a bonus G1). This build is VERY light on white, so I wouldn't risk depending on Map mana to sweep. Having one in your opener allows you to sequence differently than normal. Smart players will prepare, but with spot removal that gains life, this is usually a lose-lose for aggro. In my ideal world, Supreme Verdict will get reprinted, and Hallowed Fountain will allow me to cast it, but I think I stay with Ritual. I don't want to ramp my opponents into Niv-Mizzet and Banefire, two of the most dangerous cards for this deck (3 is Carnage Tyrant).
2) Was Disdainful Stroke worth a maindeck slot? I asked the same thing, but it worked out well. Great against GB, anything with Crackling Drake. Bad against red and white weenie, but I never drew it and was screwed. Also, the red I played against was Goblins, so I had Trashmaster and Frenzy to counter with it. I filtered and drew so many cards with Map/Teferi, that it never bit me. Same with Negate, though Negate is probably a bit more versatile.
3) No Thought Erasure in the 75? Would you consider it the next time out if you play this? No. I tried builds with it main and SB before, and did badly. I love it, but I feel it is best in a Disinformation Campaign deck. I've seen Esper decks with the combo, but this is reactive, so we're not in much need of it.
4) I've found the Golgari match-up to be build dependent. Was there anything special about that match you remember? As I've said before, Detection Tower makes this match winnable, especially game 1. Without it, it's can you find and flash in Chromium and win before Carnage Tyrant kills you. He stumbled on mana G1 so I killed and countered everything after cleaning up with Ritual. I make sure whenever possible to save a Contempt for that stupid Reaper, he's very bad for us. G2, he drew better, but I kept up, took two or three hits from a Branchwalker or Ranger to play Thief Of Sanity. Thief decided to hit every time, and I steam rolled him. A highlight was him exploring a Carnage Tyrant away to keep him from me. LOL. I landed a second after playing a Ranger to clog the ground. Then, I found Tyrant and something else good. He scooped to Tyrant when I went to play another of his cards that turn. Since they all but abandoned Assassin's Trophy, their Contempts are stretched between Teferi, Thief and whatever you can take with Thief. Also, if I draw both Unmoored Ego, the 1st takes Tyrant, unless I have double Tower and a draw engine/multiple kill spells including at least 1 Contempt. Next, I take Contempt. If they can't kill Teferi and Thief, they usually lose.
A side note (not to you, in general): Going to say "I told you so" on Detection Tower. It also beats Dive Down. I had my Jeskai opponent cast it to save Niv-Mizzet from a Contempt. I activate. He Dives again thinking it would work. I look at him, tell him Niv dies anyway. He calls the judge, confirms I'm right, loses his Niv, and then gets beat up by Chromium. I don't think Esper works right now without Tower. Mono Blue is a terrible match unless they draw badly, and it blanks the 4 main deck Dives they play.
Thanks for the answers... Hopefully, you won't mind some follow-up discussion...
I'm going to try the Ritual of Soot based on your comments. I see a lot of Adanto Vanguard, so I may keep a couple Golden Demise in the board, but otherwise, I too am wishing for Supreme Verdict to make a comeback.
I'm also going to try the Treasure Map. I've been very impressed with the 'turbo mill' package of Sabotage, Thought Erasure, and Discovery as quick flips of Search for Azcanta can be a significant advantage. That said, here are a couple more questions:
1) Was Dream Eater worthwhile? I've played a list (link is not me) set up similar to yours (no Treasure Map) and I just really didn't care for it. I like flash, etc. etc., but in most match-ups it just ate a removal after 1 (or less) hits. If I had the permission, I really didn't care to protect it and it didn't feel necessary. Love to hear other thoughts, though.
2) Did you miss Eldest Reborn in the main? I find it to be a card I search out, a lot. I like to play 2 maindeck, but it may just be my playstyle as opposed to 'right'.
3) Did Vona do enough? I've played Profane Procession from the Board, but I've not played Vona in a while. At 5 mana, is it fast enough to matter (I'm assuming it comes in vs aggro)? What am I missing?
Congrats on the great result! Awesome to see you running Unmoored Ego. Love that card.
I don't get why so many pick Golden Demise over Ritual of Soot. Ritual is insane.
I love Esper Control. Going to run a bad variation of it at my next FNM, but I'll have fun doing it hehe. I run more white to have access to Lyra and Settle. I only have two Teferi though...
How did you like having so many moment of cravings? Last time I ran esper I had 2 or 3 main and the rest in the sideboard, but every single time I drev one I wish it had been a Cast Down which I only had two of. My current build has no moment of craving and four cast down main deck (pseudo Fatal Push...) so I will most definiteley be up against decks with lots of Adanto Vanguards hehe.
Personally, I've found it comes down to what 'has' to be destroyed and when, which could be completely wrong, of course. I find you almost have to pick and choose your one-for-one removal and not play a cast down on a creature that can be dealt with using a different card. (I win a lot at less than 5 life by the way...)
Thanks for the answers... Hopefully, you won't mind some follow-up discussion...
I'm going to try the Ritual of Soot based on your comments. I see a lot of Adanto Vanguard, so I may keep a couple Golden Demise in the board, but otherwise, I too am wishing for Supreme Verdict to make a comeback.
I'm also going to try the Treasure Map. I've been very impressed with the 'turbo mill' package of Sabotage, Thought Erasure, and Discovery as quick flips of Search for Azcanta can be a significant advantage. That said, here are a couple more questions:
1) Was Dream Eater worthwhile? I've played a list (link is not me) set up similar to yours (no Treasure Map) and I just really didn't care for it. I like flash, etc. etc., but in most match-ups it just ate a removal after 1 (or less) hits. If I had the permission, I really didn't care to protect it and it didn't feel necessary. Love to hear other thoughts, though.
I don't particularly like the card, and was hesitant to try it. It's a lot better than I thought. It slows down a lot of problematic permanents. Once in the tournament, I cast it to throw 3 or 4 cards in the GY to flip Search, which was huge.
2) Did you miss Eldest Reborn in the main? I find it to be a card I search out, a lot. I like to play 2 maindeck, but it may just be my playstyle as opposed to 'right'.
Kinda, but not too much. I love that card, but IMO, it is more of a tap-out style card. SB, it does a lot in the appropriate matches. Especially against Niv when you haven't or can't Ego them.
3) Did Vona do enough? I've played Profane Procession from the Board, but I've not played Vona in a while. At 5 mana, is it fast enough to matter (I'm assuming it comes in vs aggro)? What am I missing?
The lifegain removal is the MVP in the aggro matches, but Vona is really good. I never activated her, but a 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature is very good. She gets you out of Banefire range fast and slams the door on them quickly. Cheaper than Chromium. In a pinch, she can destroy History, Frenzy, The Immortal Sun, any planeswalker. I sometimes bring one in against GB if they appear to not have a lot of removal. Also good against GW Tokens.
Personally, I've found it comes down to what 'has' to be destroyed and when, which could be completely wrong, of course. I find you almost have to pick and choose your one-for-one removal and not play a cast down on a creature that can be dealt with using a different card. (I win a lot at less than 5 life by the way...)
Haha thanks. I think I'll have to win 10 FNM's to have enough store Credit for one or two more Teferi hehe. FNM's here in Denmark are pretty small.
Yeah, the Mortify reprint is pretty sick. I still like cast down for the lower cost, but Mortify will be sick.
Lol.
I like the cost of Cast Down also, but I think hitting legends (Niv-Mizzet) and removing enchantments (Ixalan's Binding on your Teferi) will make it worth it.
How are you all seeing Esper Control now that the new set is out?
Very disappointed in the Andendum keyword and a lot of the Azorius cards. But 4 main deck Kaya's Wrath is making my nipples hard lol. Such a sick card!
Angel of grace is awesome too. Imagine having a Lyra on the battlefield and then flashing this in? GG hehe
How are you all seeing Esper Control now that the new set is out?
Very disappointed in the Andendum keyword and a lot of the Azorius cards. But 4 main deck Kaya's Wrath is making my nipples hard lol. Such a sick card!
Angel of grace is awesome too. Imagine having a Lyra on the battlefield and then flashing this in? GG hehe
Most of those UW cards were not supposed to help control. Quench looks good.
4x Kaya's Wrath is killer. Been running them in BW Control.
How are you all seeing Esper Control now that the new set is out?
Very disappointed in the Andendum keyword and a lot of the Azorius cards. But 4 main deck Kaya's Wrath is making my nipples hard lol. Such a sick card!
Angel of grace is awesome too. Imagine having a Lyra on the battlefield and then flashing this in? GG hehe
Most of those UW cards were not supposed to help control. Quench looks good.
4x Kaya's Wrath is killer. Been running them in BW Control.
Yeah, it's bull***** they made Azorius crap because of Teferi. I still went with them at the pre release either way hehe.
To me Quench seems better than Syncopate. Syncopate is almost always the first card I side out and they kinda fit the same spot.
The question to me is still, is the deck strong enough now? Is it better than Niv Mizzet? I like the non damaged based removal from black over the red damage spells, but Niv Mizzet alone is pretty much better than everything else hehe.
I still think jeskai is stronger, but I prefer playing with Esper.
Yeah, it's bull***** they made Azorius crap because of Teferi. I still went with them at the pre release either way hehe.
To me Quench seems better than Syncopate. Syncopate is almost always the first card I side out and they kinda fit the same spot.
The question to me is still, is the deck strong enough now? Is it better than Niv Mizzet? I like the non damaged based removal from black over the red damage spells, but Niv Mizzet alone is pretty much better than everything else hehe.
I still think jeskai is stronger, but I prefer playing with Esper.
Teferi AND Niv-Mizzet. I think Esper is the winner (besides Gruul ) due to Kaya's Wrath, Mortify and Consecrate//Consume. Tested against Gruul yesterday, Mortfy and Absorb make all the difference. IDK about 4 Kaya's Wrath unless you're playing tap-out, but it's good. Vs. Rhythm OF The Wild, they just give all of their guys haste (those that don't already). Angel Of Grace looks good also, but it's a bit of a non-bo with Kaya's Wrath. If you want to be greedy with it, run Ritual Of Soot with it, and fly over for the win. I think you give up some points G1 vs. Jeskai, but you're disadvantaged there anyway. Just have Chromium and a bunch of hate ready in SB. I think Angel is much better G1 against everything not control, so the math probably works out.
I think the balance has shifted towards Esper at least being at parity. We were already better against some decks, but I think we picked up points in every matchup. Jeskai (actually, Niv-Mizzet, the rest of the deck is whatever) will still be a problem, but the upgrade to Mortify is HUGE. It hits Niv unlike Cast Down, and blows up their Ixalan's Bindings. Kaya's Wrath is also serviceable G1. G1 is still bad, largely depending on how many Niv they draw, but I feel the SB games are much better than before. You will need to know when to scoop G1 to save time and be aggressive in SB games.
@kpal - Do yourself a favor and don't play Quench. It's terrible smh.
Actually Kaya's Wrath and Grace being a non-bo is quiet the opposite. You almost want Grace in the grave yard when you're on your last breath so that you reset your life total back to 10.
My prediction is that Gruul will be the dominant creature deck. Requiring cards like Mortify. which are an upgrade over Divine Intervention since it takes out monsters too.
Therefore, my suggestion for an esper build would be either A) UW based splashing black for only 4x Mortify. B) BW based splashing blue for only 4x Tefi
Actually Kaya's Wrath and Grace being a non-bo is quiet the opposite. You almost want Grace in the grave yard when you're on your last breath so that you reset your life total back to 10.
My prediction is that Gruul will be the dominant creature deck. Requiring cards like Mortify. which are an upgrade over Divine Intervention since it takes out monsters too.
Therefore, my suggestion for an esper build would be either A) UW based splashing black for only 4x Mortify. B) BW based splashing blue for only 4x Tefi
I only meant non-bo as possibly blowing up your own creature. It's still good in the GY, it's just not killing your opponent.
I went 1-2-1 at my first FNM last week. Deck felt strong, but a little slow and clunky the way I built it. Not enough early interaction. Still managed to get my one win agaisnt Boros aggro hehe (Although he wrecked me in roughly 4min game 1 hehe) Ran two Angel of Grace and two Lyra in the sideboard. Those Angel of Grace are for real!! They were really good in my matches.
I think I'm going to tool my deck around this build for my next FNM. It's got some more early game stuff going and looks strong and fun to play. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1613356#paper
I still miss the pre rotation style of Esper with fatal push, Scarab God and stuff like that. I REALLY miss Fatal push hehe. I don't know if I'm going to play standard until rotation again. I can just feel it's kinda time for me to get a proper modern deck too.
I play Best of 3 matches and I win a little bit more than I lose. The matchups that I have a tough time with are Mono-Red, the mirror match, and Mono-Blue Tempo. Sultai Mid-Range feels pretty manageable, particularly with the 4x Kaya's Wrath being mainboard. I find that I enjoy any Nexus of Fate matchup because a lot of them try and sideboard/keep removal in the main in anticipation of me bringing in Thief of Sanity. Juking them out feels fantastic, especially with the Ego stealing all of their Nexi with Counter backup.
I'm a little torn on the sideboard Disdainful Strokes. They're good against any mid-range deck and most Control decks, but I kinda want to shore up my Tempo and Mono-Red Matchups with more cheap removal. I'm contemplating going to just 1 The Eldest Reborn and adding in another Cast Down in the side. While I loved siding in [CARD}Thief of Sanity[/CARD], everyone is expecting it now and anticipates it, so it's no longer as effective as it once was.
The Matchups that I've come across as being most common are Azorius Aggro, Sultai Mid-Range, Mono-Red, Esper Control, Gate variants, Mono-Blue Tempo, and Nexus of Fate decks. Izzet Drakes will probably pick up in popularity soon, but that matchup feels manageable with the heavy Removal count mainboard. Either way, the fact that the meta has settled down a bit makes Control a better option than it was previously.
My favorite part about Esper Control is how I no longer lose to Carnage Tyrant. That card literally made my blood pressure rise every time I tried playing against it with Jeskai Control. No longer!
It's been mentioned a number of times by professional MTG players and writers, but the mainboard Thought Erasures go a LONG way in shoring up some difficult matchups G1. Taking a Mono-Red's Frenzy is game-changing, or nabbing a Vivien Reid or Find//Finality can be pivotal in winning G1. It's probably the best card for Control decks right now, and I could easily see a Grixis variant doing well. Maybe a Grixis variant with mainboard Thief of Sanity could be intriguing and effective against the current meta.
I play Best of 3 matches and I win a little bit more than I lose. The matchups that I have a tough time with are Mono-Red, the mirror match, and Mono-Blue Tempo. Sultai Mid-Range feels pretty manageable, particularly with the 4x Kaya's Wrath being mainboard. I find that I enjoy any Nexus of Fate matchup because a lot of them try and sideboard/keep removal in the main in anticipation of me bringing in Thief of Sanity. Juking them out feels fantastic, especially with the Ego stealing all of their Nexi with Counter backup.
I'm a little torn on the sideboard Disdainful Strokes. They're good against any mid-range deck and most Control decks, but I kinda want to shore up my Tempo and Mono-Red Matchups with more cheap removal. I'm contemplating going to just 1 The Eldest Reborn and adding in another Cast Down in the side. While I loved siding in [CARD}Thief of Sanity[/CARD], everyone is expecting it now and anticipates it, so it's no longer as effective as it once was.
The Matchups that I've come across as being most common are Azorius Aggro, Sultai Mid-Range, Mono-Red, Esper Control, Gate variants, Mono-Blue Tempo, and Nexus of Fate decks. Izzet Drakes will probably pick up in popularity soon, but that matchup feels manageable with the heavy Removal count mainboard. Either way, the fact that the meta has settled down a bit makes Control a better option than it was previously.
My favorite part about Esper Control is how I no longer lose to Carnage Tyrant. That card literally made my blood pressure rise every time I tried playing against it with Jeskai Control. No longer!
It's been mentioned a number of times by professional MTG players and writers, but the mainboard Thought Erasures go a LONG way in shoring up some difficult matchups G1. Taking a Mono-Red's Frenzy is game-changing, or nabbing a Vivien Reid or Find//Finality can be pivotal in winning G1. It's probably the best card for Control decks right now, and I could easily see a Grixis variant doing well. Maybe a Grixis variant with mainboard Thief of Sanity could be intriguing and effective against the current meta.
Hope that this brief analysis helps.
If you want to beat red, I would (in order of importance)
1. Find room for Moment Of Craving 3 and 4. Best card in the match.
2. Play 2-3 Basilica Bell-Haunt in the SB. A 3/4 wall that gives you 3 life, and takes a card out of their hand? Very strong. Alternatively, you could play the white horse (the name escapes me). gains 3 when it comes in, gains 3 every time an opponent targets it. Less useful against mono blue since it doesn't fly or strip the hand.
I play Best of 3 matches and I win a little bit more than I lose. The matchups that I have a tough time with are Mono-Red, the mirror match, and Mono-Blue Tempo. Sultai Mid-Range feels pretty manageable, particularly with the 4x Kaya's Wrath being mainboard. I find that I enjoy any Nexus of Fate matchup because a lot of them try and sideboard/keep removal in the main in anticipation of me bringing in Thief of Sanity. Juking them out feels fantastic, especially with the Ego stealing all of their Nexi with Counter backup.
I'm a little torn on the sideboard Disdainful Strokes. They're good against any mid-range deck and most Control decks, but I kinda want to shore up my Tempo and Mono-Red Matchups with more cheap removal. I'm contemplating going to just 1 The Eldest Reborn and adding in another Cast Down in the side. While I loved siding in [CARD}Thief of Sanity[/CARD], everyone is expecting it now and anticipates it, so it's no longer as effective as it once was.
The Matchups that I've come across as being most common are Azorius Aggro, Sultai Mid-Range, Mono-Red, Esper Control, Gate variants, Mono-Blue Tempo, and Nexus of Fate decks. Izzet Drakes will probably pick up in popularity soon, but that matchup feels manageable with the heavy Removal count mainboard. Either way, the fact that the meta has settled down a bit makes Control a better option than it was previously.
My favorite part about Esper Control is how I no longer lose to Carnage Tyrant. That card literally made my blood pressure rise every time I tried playing against it with Jeskai Control. No longer!
It's been mentioned a number of times by professional MTG players and writers, but the mainboard Thought Erasures go a LONG way in shoring up some difficult matchups G1. Taking a Mono-Red's Frenzy is game-changing, or nabbing a Vivien Reid or Find//Finality can be pivotal in winning G1. It's probably the best card for Control decks right now, and I could easily see a Grixis variant doing well. Maybe a Grixis variant with mainboard Thief of Sanity could be intriguing and effective against the current meta.
Hope that this brief analysis helps.
Interesting list.
Currently, I've been having pretty good success with a variant on Seth Manfield's recent list using Karn as the additional win-con. I struggle with Mono-Blue Tempo as I think this deck is in a bad spot against that deck. They go underneath us in pretty much every instance and you won't get a 2-for-1 until very late (or at least too late to matter) in the game. The mana disadvantage is too great. Mono-Red isn't really that bad, but I actually find Thought Erasure to be sub-optimal against them unless they are mana-screwed or you are already shifting to winning. Light Up the Stage and Experimental Frenzy go right around it. I don't see Mono-Red much in the Traditional ladder or in Traditional Constructed Events, though. I agree that Basilica Bell Haunts in the sideboard change that match-up a lot. Nezahal and Dawn of Hope are both bad finishers in the mirror. Nezahal is just bad against a good opponent, they wrath, you discard, they Vraska's Contempt... 4 for 2 = control loss probably 90+% of the time. And while Dawn of Hope can land early, it won't affect the board for quite a while outside of chewing up an otherwise dead Mortify from your opponent.
I'll also say that I'm the first to looking for the next level against sideboard Thief of Sanity, but at this point, I think it's one of the best choices in the sideboard. 4x Thief against Nexus or Sultai is amazing. Some number of Hostage Takers is probably also correct at this point as they do a ton of work and taking a Hydroid is icing.
I love a 1-of Unmoored Ego in the BO1 games, but in BO3, I just find it as dead space. I prefer to have an actual answer. Taking a turn off in this deck to remove a 'potential' problem post-board isn't good enough. Half the field is adding Negate into their deck against us and it's just one more way we walk into it...
I went 3-1 at my local FNM last night. Won against Mono Red, Sultai Control and Orzhov midrange. Lost to Simic Merfolk.
Should have had a great game 1 versus Merfolk, but had to mull a lot and had some bad draws in both games. Bummer, but that's just how it goes sometimes.
All the other games went pretty well and it was fun to play.
My list is pretty similar to most other lists, only difference was I had 1 main deck Lyra (which was pretty handy in a few game 1 actually), so my main deck win cons are Lyra, Chromium and 4 Teferi. I took one settle out of the main to make room for Lyra. I just miss having more creatures in the main deck from pre rotation and I find it too slow with only having Chromium and a couple of Teferi as win cons. As fun as it is to make people concede on Arena with a Teferi on board, it's really boring in person, and I don't like watching whoever I'm playing against whine and moan and get frustrated with "playing until I'm forced to concede"
I was also running 9 more creatures in my sideboard, so it basically becomes a midrange'esque deck post sideboard versus some matchups, which is pretty fun. I should probably just play Esper midrange hehe.
I have 1 more Lyra, 2 Angel of Grace, 2 Hostage Taker and 4 Theif of Sanity.
Like mentioned above, I think people are aware of the thieves coming in from the sideboard, so it's probably time to adjust that sideboard plan, but people luckily for me they didn't expect so many more creatures coming in
I put 1 Field of Ruin in the deck, but didn't have a matchup where it was needed and the times I had it on the battlefield it wasn't a problem not being a colour, so can't really say something about how useful or bad it was yet.
Anyway, glad I had a good win ratio for once at FNM and it was fun to play. I usually get my ass kicked all the time there.
I'm a long time follower of this forum, but this is one of my first posts. I've been playing control decks for all of my Magic 'career' and I especially love Esper. I'll share my decklist:
This list brought me to a 5-2 finish on one of the biggest tournament in The Netherlands. It felt really solid and the Kaya's (Planeswalkers) really surprised me. In many match ups they did so much work. Against mono red/blue it's a removal spell and lifegain. Against BG(U) it's a constant removal of creatures in the graveyard they could eventually return with Find//Finality. Especially removing a Carnage Tyrant with Thought Erasure and then removing it with Kaya has been real sweet. Against the Drakes/Phoenix decks Kaya was great and in the mirror it stopped my opponents Search for Azcanta from transforming and providing a clock they couldn't deal with as they lacked Vraska's Contempt #3 and #4 (or else they had to deal with Teferi).
@FredBear
I've actually found the opposite to be true in regards to Dawn of Hope. It's very rarely a T2 play unless I have some sort of backup on T3 to protect it, but casting the Dawn in the lategame is very awesome. It's easy to win the counter war over since it costs only 2 mana and it pressures any future Teferis that your mirror match might resolve. It also draws cards off of life-gain triggers, which is a nice way to keep the cards flowing. I was trying out Nezahal instead of Chromium and it's been not bad. The drawing cards off of the casting of non-creature spells has been really quite good, particularly since I've experienced the fact that people discard the Kaya's Wrath after missing a land drop or two or to the Jump-Start cost of Chemister's Insight.
Yeah, I've actually found that Unmoored Ego is just outclassed by the Thief. I've since made the switch over to Thief of Sanity. It felt terrible to resolve the Ego against a Simic Nexus deck only to lose to their Frilled Mystics and Krasi (Krases? Krasi? I dunno). And opponents are definitely adding in Negate pretty much every time.
I've also come around to the idea of adding the Bell-Haunts into my sideboard for the MOno-Red and Azorius Aggro decks. It's just really good at what it does.
While I've been spending some time with a Grixis Control deck, I still play Esper on Arena from time to time. I keep tweaking the list as I go. I'll try and post a new one based on the changes that have been working.
EDIT: No Search for Azcanta because I'm a noob and wanted to try a list without it. It too has come back to the main.
Been doing pretty well with this list in the Traditional Constructed event. Probably more cute than it needs to be but I'm an EDH player at heart and like one-ofs.
Looking for some advice to improve the deck. Firstly it tends to lose against UGx Nexus combo and Jeskai control. Secondly, even with 26 lands I am getting a lot of 1 land openers, often into 1 or no land second hands. I am not sure what to do about this - do I need even more lands?
-Dawn of Hope: An amazing win condition, closes things up faster than Teferi/nexus mill (I still haven't needed to do that one) and generates a ton of cards in the late game. If you can stabilize then this will create chump blockers until the end of time. Resistant to removal as an enchantment, and due to its low cost can often be played while keeping up counter magic. This card is the reason I play the deck, if there was a better DoH deck I would be playing that instead.
-Search for Azcanta: Everyone knows what it is. Strong card, that is extra strong with Nexus and with Teferi.
-Teferi, Hero of Dominaria: Everyone knows what it is. I feel gross playing even just two copies so haven't got all four. I also find running four leaves you open to Ixalan's Binding or Unmoored Ego, hence some of the diversified win conditions.
-Kaya, Orzhov Usurper: A utility piece and alternative win condition for the deck. I love this card as while it is lacking boring effective abilities like Teferi, it has a ton of utility in a ton of matchups. Always dies on sight to my opponent - a three mana PW eating removal for Teferi is great.
-Discovery / Dispersal: I am unsure about these. I didn't run cantrips before, but I have consistent mana problems with the deck and like the smooth draws these give you. Some value against Carnage Tyrant and other single, sticky win conditions.
-Mastermind's Acquisition: Probably too cute. I just find it funny and sometimes getting a silver bullet or a strong sideboard card is great. Can even get you a land if you are desperate.
-Nexus of Fate: Everyone knows what it is. I originally just added the one so I would not mill out. Found that the first NoF in your deck gives you great value as you start to increasingly draw it late game, while being less likely to clog your hand early.
CONTROL
-Moment of Craving, Absorb, Vraska's Contempt: In best of 1, the lifegain from these cards almost makes red rush a good matchup - its that good. In Bo3, I'm facing less aggressive decks and thinking maybe MoC and Absorb can be changed out.
-Kaya's Wrath & Cry of the Carnarium: I do not know the best ratio of these. Cry is mainly good for Golgari and because sometimes we trip on WWBB (not that often). If Golgari Krasis wasn't so difficult I would probably cut the Crys for Wraths and a Cleansing Nova.
-Thought Erasure: Only a two of as games often go long and into top deck mode for the opponent. Could be a terrible mistake?
SIDEBOARD
Skewed towards picking out particular cards in Uxx control matchups. IE removing Teferi from Bant Nexus. I don't consistently beat these decks so apparantly my plan sucks.
-Negate: Any control matchup is pretty much auto-boarding creature removal for these
-Sorcerous Spyglass: For the Teferi matchups. I will even cut my own Teferis so these are good. Just hate Teferi really.
-Sinister Sabotage: 5th counterspell to board in with the Negates
-Cry of the Carnarium: More boardwipes for the aggressive matchups. Brings us up to seven wraths in the deck.
-Mortify: New addition, finding that a stuck Wilderness Reclamation can be game, so needed more removal that can hit that. Maybe should be mainboard.
-Unmoored Ego: Name Teferi, Nexus or Hydroid Krasis
-The Eldest Reborn: Comes in against PW decks mainly. Can win you the game by eating then reanimating a strong walker, Carnage Tyrant etc.
-Chromium, the Mutable: Came in after several Esper decks boarded it against me and laid waste. Super strong in a control vs control match after they board out the Wraths
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Been doing pretty well with this list in the Traditional Constructed event. Probably more cute than it needs to be but I'm an EDH player at heart and like one-ofs.
Looking for some advice to improve the deck. Firstly it tends to lose against UGx Nexus combo and Jeskai control. Secondly, even with 26 lands I am getting a lot of 1 land openers, often into 1 or no land second hands. I am not sure what to do about this - do I need even more lands?
Well the biggest thing I can see in your list is the lack of draw spells. Not a single copy of either Chemister's Insight or Precognitive Perception in the 75? And only 2 copies of Teferi? I can't say I'm a fan. How do you pull ahead after trading resources early? I mean I see the Dawn of Hopes but honestly they seem pretty loose to me. They're slow, take forever to start providing any extra cards, and even when they're finally 'on' they're extremely mana-intensive. Are they actually good for you?
For comparison, here's my list that I play on Arena. I only have 1 Kaya's Wrath or else I would be playing those instead of Cleansing Nova. Everything else is what I want it to be, though.
I don't really do the Constructed Events so I can't tell you how well it does there, but I've been pretty steadily climbing the BO3 Ranked queue since I started playing this list. It is unfortunate that Mono-Blue Tempo just won the Pro Tour because I think that's the only significantly unfavorable match up I've run into so far.
@FredBear
I've actually found the opposite to be true in regards to Dawn of Hope. It's very rarely a T2 play unless I have some sort of backup on T3 to protect it, but casting the Dawn in the lategame is very awesome. It's easy to win the counter war over since it costs only 2 mana and it pressures any future Teferis that your mirror match might resolve. It also draws cards off of life-gain triggers, which is a nice way to keep the cards flowing. I was trying out Nezahal instead of Chromium and it's been not bad. The drawing cards off of the casting of non-creature spells has been really quite good, particularly since I've experienced the fact that people discard the Kaya's Wrath after missing a land drop or two or to the Jump-Start cost of Chemister's Insight.
Yeah, I've actually found that Unmoored Ego is just outclassed by the Thief. I've since made the switch over to Thief of Sanity. It felt terrible to resolve the Ego against a Simic Nexus deck only to lose to their Frilled Mystics and Krasi (Krases? Krasi? I dunno). And opponents are definitely adding in Negate pretty much every time.
I've also come around to the idea of adding the Bell-Haunts into my sideboard for the MOno-Red and Azorius Aggro decks. It's just really good at what it does.
While I've been spending some time with a Grixis Control deck, I still play Esper on Arena from time to time. I keep tweaking the list as I go. I'll try and post a new one based on the changes that have been working.
EDIT: No Search for Azcanta because I'm a noob and wanted to try a list without it. It too has come back to the main.
I won't argue with results. If Dawn of Hope works for you, great. As I said, I've not been impressed with it in the mirror. The creatures turn on removal and it also gives Mortify a target. Playing it late, personally, I would want to use it more to draw out counter-magic in an effort to land a Teferi. I would not get into a counter-war over it as allowing the opponent to land a Teferi and then bounce it is going to feel bad. Again, though, if you like it, I believe the alternate win con is a flex slot and there are probably a few choices.
The same tends to go for Nezehal. If he had Flash, I would play it in a heart beat. Without it, it doesn't meet my expectations. I had already decided that Chromium doesn't really get it done either, though, and it has Flash and protection... I would say keep playing with it and develop your own opinion or what you feel you like in the deck.
Been doing pretty well with this list in the Traditional Constructed event. Probably more cute than it needs to be but I'm an EDH player at heart and like one-ofs.
Looking for some advice to improve the deck. Firstly it tends to lose against UGx Nexus combo and Jeskai control. Secondly, even with 26 lands I am getting a lot of 1 land openers, often into 1 or no land second hands. I am not sure what to do about this - do I need even more lands?
-Dawn of Hope: An amazing win condition, closes things up faster than Teferi/nexus mill (I still haven't needed to do that one) and generates a ton of cards in the late game. If you can stabilize then this will create chump blockers until the end of time. Resistant to removal as an enchantment, and due to its low cost can often be played while keeping up counter magic. This card is the reason I play the deck, if there was a better DoH deck I would be playing that instead.
-Search for Azcanta: Everyone knows what it is. Strong card, that is extra strong with Nexus and with Teferi.
-Teferi, Hero of Dominaria: Everyone knows what it is. I feel gross playing even just two copies so haven't got all four. I also find running four leaves you open to Ixalan's Binding or Unmoored Ego, hence some of the diversified win conditions.
-Kaya, Orzhov Usurper: A utility piece and alternative win condition for the deck. I love this card as while it is lacking boring effective abilities like Teferi, it has a ton of utility in a ton of matchups. Always dies on sight to my opponent - a three mana PW eating removal for Teferi is great.
-Discovery / Dispersal: I am unsure about these. I didn't run cantrips before, but I have consistent mana problems with the deck and like the smooth draws these give you. Some value against Carnage Tyrant and other single, sticky win conditions.
-Mastermind's Acquisition: Probably too cute. I just find it funny and sometimes getting a silver bullet or a strong sideboard card is great. Can even get you a land if you are desperate.
-Nexus of Fate: Everyone knows what it is. I originally just added the one so I would not mill out. Found that the first NoF in your deck gives you great value as you start to increasingly draw it late game, while being less likely to clog your hand early.
CONTROL
-Moment of Craving, Absorb, Vraska's Contempt: In best of 1, the lifegain from these cards almost makes red rush a good matchup - its that good. In Bo3, I'm facing less aggressive decks and thinking maybe MoC and Absorb can be changed out.
-Kaya's Wrath & Cry of the Carnarium: I do not know the best ratio of these. Cry is mainly good for Golgari and because sometimes we trip on WWBB (not that often). If Golgari Krasis wasn't so difficult I would probably cut the Crys for Wraths and a Cleansing Nova.
-Thought Erasure: Only a two of as games often go long and into top deck mode for the opponent. Could be a terrible mistake?
SIDEBOARD
Skewed towards picking out particular cards in Uxx control matchups. IE removing Teferi from Bant Nexus. I don't consistently beat these decks so apparantly my plan sucks.
-Negate: Any control matchup is pretty much auto-boarding creature removal for these
-Sorcerous Spyglass: For the Teferi matchups. I will even cut my own Teferis so these are good. Just hate Teferi really.
-Sinister Sabotage: 5th counterspell to board in with the Negates
-Cry of the Carnarium: More boardwipes for the aggressive matchups. Brings us up to seven wraths in the deck.
-Mortify: New addition, finding that a stuck Wilderness Reclamation can be game, so needed more removal that can hit that. Maybe should be mainboard.
-Unmoored Ego: Name Teferi, Nexus or Hydroid Krasis
-The Eldest Reborn: Comes in against PW decks mainly. Can win you the game by eating then reanimating a strong walker, Carnage Tyrant etc.
-Chromium, the Mutable: Came in after several Esper decks boarded it against me and laid waste. Super strong in a control vs control match after they board out the Wraths
In order to offer advice, what's your goal? If you're playing primarily the Constructed Events, you'll face a lot of Mono-Blue, Simic Nexus, Drakes, Azorius Aggro, the mirror, and total jank.
A good starting point would be either Ikawa's list from the Mythic Championship or Michael Hamilton's 10-0 list from the same event. From there, look at how you want to either tune to a specific match-up (something you face more of - a real effect based on time of day on Arena) or tune to your playstyle (if you have to have a Dawn of Hope, then make it so).
Not being sure of your budget, it's also hard to make specific suggestions, but Sorcerous Spyglass isn't going to be as good as The Immortal Sun (especially with Dawn of Hope in your deck). I would not waste time on Unmoored Ego in BO3. Thief of Sanity is much better. 4x Thought Erasure is well worth it as it disrupts and smooths your early draws. I prefer 2x Search for Azcanta as I really don't need the 2nd. Nexus isn't worth it to stop mill. You'll win before it gets to that point or you could use 2x Devious Cover-Up as mill protection. Mastermind's Acquisition is probably too slow, too. You are better off going for greater consistency. I mean, I get being used to it from EDH, but in constructed queues, the return will be greater on consistency. That's how the RDW guys make it to Mythic, right, the same thing, over and over and over and over again reduces their variance...
Any way you slice it, just make sure it's fun for you.
Been doing pretty well with this list in the Traditional Constructed event. Probably more cute than it needs to be but I'm an EDH player at heart and like one-ofs.
Looking for some advice to improve the deck. Firstly it tends to lose against UGx Nexus combo and Jeskai control. Secondly, even with 26 lands I am getting a lot of 1 land openers, often into 1 or no land second hands. I am not sure what to do about this - do I need even more lands?
Well the biggest thing I can see in your list is the lack of draw spells. Not a single copy of either Chemister's Insight or Precognitive Perception in the 75? And only 2 copies of Teferi? I can't say I'm a fan. How do you pull ahead after trading resources early? I mean I see the Dawn of Hopes but honestly they seem pretty loose to me. They're slow, take forever to start providing any extra cards, and even when they're finally 'on' they're extremely mana-intensive. Are they actually good for you?
For comparison, here's my list that I play on Arena. I only have 1 Kaya's Wrath or else I would be playing those instead of Cleansing Nova. Everything else is what I want it to be, though.
I don't really do the Constructed Events so I can't tell you how well it does there, but I've been pretty steadily climbing the BO3 Ranked queue since I started playing this list. It is unfortunate that Mono-Blue Tempo just won the Pro Tour because I think that's the only significantly unfavorable match up I've run into so far.
I'm curious how you've been doing on the different rungs of the ladder. I've made Gold I with my current list after shifting to BO3, but I am in a 2 steps forward, 1 step back right now, and have managed to tilt myself back to Gold 3 on occasion... I can't really tell if the streaks are me, Arena, or the deck. It just seems odd that I can go 5 matches in a row with the opponent drawing perfectly...
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I don't get why so many pick Golden Demise over Ritual of Soot. Ritual is insane.
I love Esper Control. Going to run a bad variation of it at my next FNM, but I'll have fun doing it hehe. I run more white to have access to Lyra and Settle. I only have two Teferi though...
How did you like having so many moment of cravings? Last time I ran esper I had 2 or 3 main and the rest in the sideboard, but every single time I drev one I wish it had been a Cast Down which I only had two of. My current build has no moment of craving and four cast down main deck (pseudo Fatal Push...) so I will most definiteley be up against decks with lots of Adanto Vanguards hehe.
Thank you!
Moment Of Craving is amazing right now. The life helps you stay out of Banefire range, along with being cheap, and dealing with Adanto Vanguard. It's way too good vs. Red and White Aggro to not run right now. It also is underrated vs. Golgari and Izzet Phoenix (Phoenix and Electromancer). I feel the same way about not having the right answer, but it is a necessary evil. I can't wait for Mortify, as I think I finally get to hang up the Cast Downs for good, and have more enchantment removal, easing the need for Invoke The Divine. It was hard cutting the 2nd Invoke, but it paid off.
Unfortunately, there is no substitute for Teferi. Off the top of my head, I would add additional The Eldest Reborns, so you can get yours back, along with the utility. Sagas are like fixed 3 use planeswalkers. Hopefully,you can pull off some wins, and earn your other 2 Teferis with store credit or trades. Good luck!
Thanks for the answers... Hopefully, you won't mind some follow-up discussion...
I'm going to try the Ritual of Soot based on your comments. I see a lot of Adanto Vanguard, so I may keep a couple Golden Demise in the board, but otherwise, I too am wishing for Supreme Verdict to make a comeback.
I'm also going to try the Treasure Map. I've been very impressed with the 'turbo mill' package of Sabotage, Thought Erasure, and Discovery as quick flips of Search for Azcanta can be a significant advantage. That said, here are a couple more questions:
1) Was Dream Eater worthwhile? I've played a list (link is not me) set up similar to yours (no Treasure Map) and I just really didn't care for it. I like flash, etc. etc., but in most match-ups it just ate a removal after 1 (or less) hits. If I had the permission, I really didn't care to protect it and it didn't feel necessary. Love to hear other thoughts, though.
2) Did you miss Eldest Reborn in the main? I find it to be a card I search out, a lot. I like to play 2 maindeck, but it may just be my playstyle as opposed to 'right'.
3) Did Vona do enough? I've played Profane Procession from the Board, but I've not played Vona in a while. At 5 mana, is it fast enough to matter (I'm assuming it comes in vs aggro)? What am I missing?
Personally, I've found it comes down to what 'has' to be destroyed and when, which could be completely wrong, of course. I find you almost have to pick and choose your one-for-one removal and not play a cast down on a creature that can be dealt with using a different card. (I win a lot at less than 5 life by the way...)
Yeah, the Mortify reprint is pretty sick. I still like cast down for the lower cost, but Mortify will be sick.
Lol.
I like the cost of Cast Down also, but I think hitting legends (Niv-Mizzet) and removing enchantments (Ixalan's Binding on your Teferi) will make it worth it.
Very disappointed in the Andendum keyword and a lot of the Azorius cards. But 4 main deck Kaya's Wrath is making my nipples hard lol. Such a sick card!
Angel of grace is awesome too. Imagine having a Lyra on the battlefield and then flashing this in? GG hehe
4x Kaya's Wrath is killer. Been running them in BW Control.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Yeah, it's bull***** they made Azorius crap because of Teferi. I still went with them at the pre release either way hehe.
To me Quench seems better than Syncopate. Syncopate is almost always the first card I side out and they kinda fit the same spot.
The question to me is still, is the deck strong enough now? Is it better than Niv Mizzet? I like the non damaged based removal from black over the red damage spells, but Niv Mizzet alone is pretty much better than everything else hehe.
I still think jeskai is stronger, but I prefer playing with Esper.
Teferi AND Niv-Mizzet. I think Esper is the winner (besides Gruul ) due to Kaya's Wrath, Mortify and Consecrate//Consume. Tested against Gruul yesterday, Mortfy and Absorb make all the difference. IDK about 4 Kaya's Wrath unless you're playing tap-out, but it's good. Vs. Rhythm OF The Wild, they just give all of their guys haste (those that don't already). Angel Of Grace looks good also, but it's a bit of a non-bo with Kaya's Wrath. If you want to be greedy with it, run Ritual Of Soot with it, and fly over for the win. I think you give up some points G1 vs. Jeskai, but you're disadvantaged there anyway. Just have Chromium and a bunch of hate ready in SB. I think Angel is much better G1 against everything not control, so the math probably works out.
I think the balance has shifted towards Esper at least being at parity. We were already better against some decks, but I think we picked up points in every matchup. Jeskai (actually, Niv-Mizzet, the rest of the deck is whatever) will still be a problem, but the upgrade to Mortify is HUGE. It hits Niv unlike Cast Down, and blows up their Ixalan's Bindings. Kaya's Wrath is also serviceable G1. G1 is still bad, largely depending on how many Niv they draw, but I feel the SB games are much better than before. You will need to know when to scoop G1 to save time and be aggressive in SB games.
@kpal - Do yourself a favor and don't play Quench. It's terrible smh.
My prediction is that Gruul will be the dominant creature deck. Requiring cards like Mortify. which are an upgrade over Divine Intervention since it takes out monsters too.
Therefore, my suggestion for an esper build would be either A) UW based splashing black for only 4x Mortify. B) BW based splashing blue for only 4x Tefi
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I only meant non-bo as possibly blowing up your own creature. It's still good in the GY, it's just not killing your opponent.
I went 1-2-1 at my first FNM last week. Deck felt strong, but a little slow and clunky the way I built it. Not enough early interaction. Still managed to get my one win agaisnt Boros aggro hehe (Although he wrecked me in roughly 4min game 1 hehe) Ran two Angel of Grace and two Lyra in the sideboard. Those Angel of Grace are for real!! They were really good in my matches.
I think I'm going to tool my deck around this build for my next FNM. It's got some more early game stuff going and looks strong and fun to play.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1613356#paper
I still miss the pre rotation style of Esper with fatal push, Scarab God and stuff like that. I REALLY miss Fatal push hehe. I don't know if I'm going to play standard until rotation again. I can just feel it's kinda time for me to get a proper modern deck too.
1x Nezahal, Primal Tide
Non-Creatures (30)
1x Dawn of Hope
4x Thought Erasure
1x Cast Down
2x Moment of Craving
2x Negate
4x Mortify
4x Absorb
4x Kaya's Wrath
3x Vraska's Contempt
3x Chemister's Insight
2x Precognitive Perception
4x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (26)
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Island
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Watery Grave
4x Godless Shrine
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Isolated Chapel
2x Negate
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Invoke the Divine
3x Cry of the Carnarium
3x Unmoored Ego
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
2x The Eldest Reborn
I play Best of 3 matches and I win a little bit more than I lose. The matchups that I have a tough time with are Mono-Red, the mirror match, and Mono-Blue Tempo. Sultai Mid-Range feels pretty manageable, particularly with the 4x Kaya's Wrath being mainboard. I find that I enjoy any Nexus of Fate matchup because a lot of them try and sideboard/keep removal in the main in anticipation of me bringing in Thief of Sanity. Juking them out feels fantastic, especially with the Ego stealing all of their Nexi with Counter backup.
I'm a little torn on the sideboard Disdainful Strokes. They're good against any mid-range deck and most Control decks, but I kinda want to shore up my Tempo and Mono-Red Matchups with more cheap removal. I'm contemplating going to just 1 The Eldest Reborn and adding in another Cast Down in the side. While I loved siding in [CARD}Thief of Sanity[/CARD], everyone is expecting it now and anticipates it, so it's no longer as effective as it once was.
The Matchups that I've come across as being most common are Azorius Aggro, Sultai Mid-Range, Mono-Red, Esper Control, Gate variants, Mono-Blue Tempo, and Nexus of Fate decks. Izzet Drakes will probably pick up in popularity soon, but that matchup feels manageable with the heavy Removal count mainboard. Either way, the fact that the meta has settled down a bit makes Control a better option than it was previously.
My favorite part about Esper Control is how I no longer lose to Carnage Tyrant. That card literally made my blood pressure rise every time I tried playing against it with Jeskai Control. No longer!
It's been mentioned a number of times by professional MTG players and writers, but the mainboard Thought Erasures go a LONG way in shoring up some difficult matchups G1. Taking a Mono-Red's Frenzy is game-changing, or nabbing a Vivien Reid or Find//Finality can be pivotal in winning G1. It's probably the best card for Control decks right now, and I could easily see a Grixis variant doing well. Maybe a Grixis variant with mainboard Thief of Sanity could be intriguing and effective against the current meta.
Hope that this brief analysis helps.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
If you want to beat red, I would (in order of importance)
1. Find room for Moment Of Craving 3 and 4. Best card in the match.
2. Play 2-3 Basilica Bell-Haunt in the SB. A 3/4 wall that gives you 3 life, and takes a card out of their hand? Very strong. Alternatively, you could play the white horse (the name escapes me). gains 3 when it comes in, gains 3 every time an opponent targets it. Less useful against mono blue since it doesn't fly or strip the hand.
Interesting list.
Currently, I've been having pretty good success with a variant on Seth Manfield's recent list using Karn as the additional win-con. I struggle with Mono-Blue Tempo as I think this deck is in a bad spot against that deck. They go underneath us in pretty much every instance and you won't get a 2-for-1 until very late (or at least too late to matter) in the game. The mana disadvantage is too great. Mono-Red isn't really that bad, but I actually find Thought Erasure to be sub-optimal against them unless they are mana-screwed or you are already shifting to winning. Light Up the Stage and Experimental Frenzy go right around it. I don't see Mono-Red much in the Traditional ladder or in Traditional Constructed Events, though. I agree that Basilica Bell Haunts in the sideboard change that match-up a lot. Nezahal and Dawn of Hope are both bad finishers in the mirror. Nezahal is just bad against a good opponent, they wrath, you discard, they Vraska's Contempt... 4 for 2 = control loss probably 90+% of the time. And while Dawn of Hope can land early, it won't affect the board for quite a while outside of chewing up an otherwise dead Mortify from your opponent.
I'll also say that I'm the first to looking for the next level against sideboard Thief of Sanity, but at this point, I think it's one of the best choices in the sideboard. 4x Thief against Nexus or Sultai is amazing. Some number of Hostage Takers is probably also correct at this point as they do a ton of work and taking a Hydroid is icing.
I love a 1-of Unmoored Ego in the BO1 games, but in BO3, I just find it as dead space. I prefer to have an actual answer. Taking a turn off in this deck to remove a 'potential' problem post-board isn't good enough. Half the field is adding Negate into their deck against us and it's just one more way we walk into it...
Why no Search for Azcanta?
Should have had a great game 1 versus Merfolk, but had to mull a lot and had some bad draws in both games. Bummer, but that's just how it goes sometimes.
All the other games went pretty well and it was fun to play.
My list is pretty similar to most other lists, only difference was I had 1 main deck Lyra (which was pretty handy in a few game 1 actually), so my main deck win cons are Lyra, Chromium and 4 Teferi. I took one settle out of the main to make room for Lyra. I just miss having more creatures in the main deck from pre rotation and I find it too slow with only having Chromium and a couple of Teferi as win cons. As fun as it is to make people concede on Arena with a Teferi on board, it's really boring in person, and I don't like watching whoever I'm playing against whine and moan and get frustrated with "playing until I'm forced to concede"
I was also running 9 more creatures in my sideboard, so it basically becomes a midrange'esque deck post sideboard versus some matchups, which is pretty fun. I should probably just play Esper midrange hehe.
I have 1 more Lyra, 2 Angel of Grace, 2 Hostage Taker and 4 Theif of Sanity.
Like mentioned above, I think people are aware of the thieves coming in from the sideboard, so it's probably time to adjust that sideboard plan, but people luckily for me they didn't expect so many more creatures coming in
I put 1 Field of Ruin in the deck, but didn't have a matchup where it was needed and the times I had it on the battlefield it wasn't a problem not being a colour, so can't really say something about how useful or bad it was yet.
Anyway, glad I had a good win ratio for once at FNM and it was fun to play. I usually get my ass kicked all the time there.
I'm a long time follower of this forum, but this is one of my first posts. I've been playing control decks for all of my Magic 'career' and I especially love Esper. I'll share my decklist:
2 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
4 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
3 Cast Down
2 Syncopate
4 Thought Erasure
4 Absorb
2 Mortify
2 Chemister's Insight
2 Vraska's Contempt
4 Kaya's Wrath
1 Precognitive Perception
1 Notion Rain
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Watery Grave
Sideboard:
3 Deputy of Detention
3 Thief of Sanity
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Duress
2 Negate
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Disdainful Stroke
This list brought me to a 5-2 finish on one of the biggest tournament in The Netherlands. It felt really solid and the Kaya's (Planeswalkers) really surprised me. In many match ups they did so much work. Against mono red/blue it's a removal spell and lifegain. Against BG(U) it's a constant removal of creatures in the graveyard they could eventually return with Find//Finality. Especially removing a Carnage Tyrant with Thought Erasure and then removing it with Kaya has been real sweet. Against the Drakes/Phoenix decks Kaya was great and in the mirror it stopped my opponents Search for Azcanta from transforming and providing a clock they couldn't deal with as they lacked Vraska's Contempt #3 and #4 (or else they had to deal with Teferi).
Cards I'd like to try out are: Dawn of Hope and a second Precognitive Perception in the main. For the sideboard I'd like to try Unmoored Ego. They seem nice in the mirror and look like they could do work against the Nexus of Fate decks.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them. Suggestions are welcome aswell!
- Vuuyi
I've actually found the opposite to be true in regards to Dawn of Hope. It's very rarely a T2 play unless I have some sort of backup on T3 to protect it, but casting the Dawn in the lategame is very awesome. It's easy to win the counter war over since it costs only 2 mana and it pressures any future Teferis that your mirror match might resolve. It also draws cards off of life-gain triggers, which is a nice way to keep the cards flowing. I was trying out Nezahal instead of Chromium and it's been not bad. The drawing cards off of the casting of non-creature spells has been really quite good, particularly since I've experienced the fact that people discard the Kaya's Wrath after missing a land drop or two or to the Jump-Start cost of Chemister's Insight.
Yeah, I've actually found that Unmoored Ego is just outclassed by the Thief. I've since made the switch over to Thief of Sanity. It felt terrible to resolve the Ego against a Simic Nexus deck only to lose to their Frilled Mystics and Krasi (Krases? Krasi? I dunno). And opponents are definitely adding in Negate pretty much every time.
I've also come around to the idea of adding the Bell-Haunts into my sideboard for the MOno-Red and Azorius Aggro decks. It's just really good at what it does.
While I've been spending some time with a Grixis Control deck, I still play Esper on Arena from time to time. I keep tweaking the list as I go. I'll try and post a new one based on the changes that have been working.
EDIT: No Search for Azcanta because I'm a noob and wanted to try a list without it. It too has come back to the main.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Looking for some advice to improve the deck. Firstly it tends to lose against UGx Nexus combo and Jeskai control. Secondly, even with 26 lands I am getting a lot of 1 land openers, often into 1 or no land second hands. I am not sure what to do about this - do I need even more lands?
3x Dawn of Hope
3x Search for Azcanta
1x Eldest Reborn
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominario
2x Discovery / Dispersal
1x Kaya, Ozhov Usurper
1x Mastermind's Acquisition
1x Nexus of Fate
Removal/Control
3x Moment of Craving
3x Absorb
4x Vraska's Contempt
3x Kaya's Wrath
2x Thought Erasure
3x Mortify
2x Cry of the Carnarium
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Plains
4x Watery Grave
1x Swamp
4x Negate
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Sinister Sabotage
2x Cry of the Carnarium
1x Mortify
2x Unmoored Ego
1x The Eldest Reborn
1x Chromium, the Mutable
Card Breakdown;
-Dawn of Hope: An amazing win condition, closes things up faster than Teferi/nexus mill (I still haven't needed to do that one) and generates a ton of cards in the late game. If you can stabilize then this will create chump blockers until the end of time. Resistant to removal as an enchantment, and due to its low cost can often be played while keeping up counter magic. This card is the reason I play the deck, if there was a better DoH deck I would be playing that instead.
-Search for Azcanta: Everyone knows what it is. Strong card, that is extra strong with Nexus and with Teferi.
-Teferi, Hero of Dominaria: Everyone knows what it is. I feel gross playing even just two copies so haven't got all four. I also find running four leaves you open to Ixalan's Binding or Unmoored Ego, hence some of the diversified win conditions.
-Kaya, Orzhov Usurper: A utility piece and alternative win condition for the deck. I love this card as while it is lacking boring effective abilities like Teferi, it has a ton of utility in a ton of matchups. Always dies on sight to my opponent - a three mana PW eating removal for Teferi is great.
-Discovery / Dispersal: I am unsure about these. I didn't run cantrips before, but I have consistent mana problems with the deck and like the smooth draws these give you. Some value against Carnage Tyrant and other single, sticky win conditions.
-Mastermind's Acquisition: Probably too cute. I just find it funny and sometimes getting a silver bullet or a strong sideboard card is great. Can even get you a land if you are desperate.
-Nexus of Fate: Everyone knows what it is. I originally just added the one so I would not mill out. Found that the first NoF in your deck gives you great value as you start to increasingly draw it late game, while being less likely to clog your hand early.
CONTROL
-Moment of Craving, Absorb, Vraska's Contempt: In best of 1, the lifegain from these cards almost makes red rush a good matchup - its that good. In Bo3, I'm facing less aggressive decks and thinking maybe MoC and Absorb can be changed out.
-Kaya's Wrath & Cry of the Carnarium: I do not know the best ratio of these. Cry is mainly good for Golgari and because sometimes we trip on WWBB (not that often). If Golgari Krasis wasn't so difficult I would probably cut the Crys for Wraths and a Cleansing Nova.
-Thought Erasure: Only a two of as games often go long and into top deck mode for the opponent. Could be a terrible mistake?
SIDEBOARD
Skewed towards picking out particular cards in Uxx control matchups. IE removing Teferi from Bant Nexus. I don't consistently beat these decks so apparantly my plan sucks.
-Negate: Any control matchup is pretty much auto-boarding creature removal for these
-Sorcerous Spyglass: For the Teferi matchups. I will even cut my own Teferis so these are good. Just hate Teferi really.
-Sinister Sabotage: 5th counterspell to board in with the Negates
-Cry of the Carnarium: More boardwipes for the aggressive matchups. Brings us up to seven wraths in the deck.
-Mortify: New addition, finding that a stuck Wilderness Reclamation can be game, so needed more removal that can hit that. Maybe should be mainboard.
-Unmoored Ego: Name Teferi, Nexus or Hydroid Krasis
-The Eldest Reborn: Comes in against PW decks mainly. Can win you the game by eating then reanimating a strong walker, Carnage Tyrant etc.
-Chromium, the Mutable: Came in after several Esper decks boarded it against me and laid waste. Super strong in a control vs control match after they board out the Wraths
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
For comparison, here's my list that I play on Arena. I only have 1 Kaya's Wrath or else I would be playing those instead of Cleansing Nova. Everything else is what I want it to be, though.
1x Chromium, the Mutable
Instants
1x Cast Down
2x Moment of Craving
2x Sinister Sabotage
3x Absorb
2x Mortify
3x Chemister's Insight
1x Vraska's Contempt
2x Precognitive Perception
Sorceries
4x Thought Erasure
1x Cry of the Carnarium
1x Kaya's Wrath
2x Cleansing Nova
2x Search for Azcanta
2x Ixalan's Binding
Planeswalkers
1x Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
4x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands
1x Plains
1x Island
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Watery Grave
1x Negate
2x Moment of Craving
1x Cry of Carnarium
4x Thief of Sanity
2x Unmoored Ego
1x Cleansing Nova
3x Lyra Dawnbringer
1x Ethereal Absolution
I won't argue with results. If Dawn of Hope works for you, great. As I said, I've not been impressed with it in the mirror. The creatures turn on removal and it also gives Mortify a target. Playing it late, personally, I would want to use it more to draw out counter-magic in an effort to land a Teferi. I would not get into a counter-war over it as allowing the opponent to land a Teferi and then bounce it is going to feel bad. Again, though, if you like it, I believe the alternate win con is a flex slot and there are probably a few choices.
The same tends to go for Nezehal. If he had Flash, I would play it in a heart beat. Without it, it doesn't meet my expectations. I had already decided that Chromium doesn't really get it done either, though, and it has Flash and protection... I would say keep playing with it and develop your own opinion or what you feel you like in the deck.
In order to offer advice, what's your goal? If you're playing primarily the Constructed Events, you'll face a lot of Mono-Blue, Simic Nexus, Drakes, Azorius Aggro, the mirror, and total jank.
A good starting point would be either Ikawa's list from the Mythic Championship or Michael Hamilton's 10-0 list from the same event. From there, look at how you want to either tune to a specific match-up (something you face more of - a real effect based on time of day on Arena) or tune to your playstyle (if you have to have a Dawn of Hope, then make it so).
Not being sure of your budget, it's also hard to make specific suggestions, but Sorcerous Spyglass isn't going to be as good as The Immortal Sun (especially with Dawn of Hope in your deck). I would not waste time on Unmoored Ego in BO3. Thief of Sanity is much better. 4x Thought Erasure is well worth it as it disrupts and smooths your early draws. I prefer 2x Search for Azcanta as I really don't need the 2nd. Nexus isn't worth it to stop mill. You'll win before it gets to that point or you could use 2x Devious Cover-Up as mill protection. Mastermind's Acquisition is probably too slow, too. You are better off going for greater consistency. I mean, I get being used to it from EDH, but in constructed queues, the return will be greater on consistency. That's how the RDW guys make it to Mythic, right, the same thing, over and over and over and over again reduces their variance...
Any way you slice it, just make sure it's fun for you.
I'm curious how you've been doing on the different rungs of the ladder. I've made Gold I with my current list after shifting to BO3, but I am in a 2 steps forward, 1 step back right now, and have managed to tilt myself back to Gold 3 on occasion... I can't really tell if the streaks are me, Arena, or the deck. It just seems odd that I can go 5 matches in a row with the opponent drawing perfectly...