Not even going to post the garbage that I've got in the side because it needs some serious rethinking. I've been playing it on both MTGO and MTGA with decent success but definitely still a WiP.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Have been playing the current list updated by OP in MTG Arena and it's a very good deck. Niv-Mizzet, Parun has been insane as a finisher.
I think i'm playing this over my Esper Control list, UR Control is a lot more consistent and has a much better matchup against aggro/token decks and the sideboard plan against control works perfectly.
We could try Risk Factor instead of Inescapable Blaze but maybe it's not a good idea because the latter is also removal.
I don't like Risk Factor in a control deck. Having played it in an aggressive U/R build, it was only really good when I was already applying pressure to the opponent's lifetotal. Besides, Inescapable Blaze is also useful for dealing with resolved planeswalkers.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Just a visitor from the Esper and U/B control threads. Wanted to see how UR development is going. A word of advice.
DO NOT play Risk Factor as your main card advantage spell. Giving your opponent a choice like that has always been bad, since the days of Browbeat. Being instant is a large improvement, but playing it with little or no other draw, and you're probably going to have a bad time. Good luck!
If you are playing control the surveil from Sinister Sabotage is better than the 2 damage from Ionize 95% of the time. When I see a list that isn't aggressive running the first Ionize before the 4th Sinister Sabotage it just tells me the person posting the list hasn't done enough testing. This is especially true if your list runs jump start cards. Surveiling a jump start card into the graveyard practically turns SS into "Counter target spell draw a card" randomly. The only deck I like any number of Ionize over the 4th Sabotage is an aggro UR Wizards list that runs Risk Factor which again, if I see that in a control list I just know the person has done like zero actual testing.
Edit: Also you will maybe have to take my word on this but I have done a ton of testing and Firemind's Research is absolutely INSANE in control mirrors. I initially thought it was a meme card but in this one context it is really really good. Like markedly better than Ral in control matchups.
Competitive Constructed Results:
14-7 (4-3, 5-2x2)
Unfortunately, wasn't taking very good matchup notes since I didn't really expect the deck to be that great. I was wrong.
UR is really good. Stable, mostly-painless mana, and definitely got a lot of the most powerful cards from GRN. Crackling Drake makes this archetype, and I fully expect to see a lot of drakeyboi in Standard. At this point, I don't really feel a third color is necessary - UR can turn the corner and clock the opponent very quickly. Am planning on trying out Jeskai and Grixis as well, but I find it hard to cut cards from this UR list.
Card choices:
Crackling Drake
This card is NUTS. Completely absurd. All UR builds should play 4, anything else is flat-out incorrect.
It does everything. Blocks anything, kills your opponent VERY quickly, AND generates card advantage. It can both trade with and straight up race Carnage Tyrants - no problem. Second set of matches had two opponents with MD Tyrants. Didn't matter, they got clocked by Drakes and died. NICE DINOSAUR. Same scenario for Vine Mare, when you can't just counter it. This card is what makes me think a black splash for sacrifice effects just isn't necessary (nor white for sweepers). Just kill your opponent.
Drakeyboi has stolen many games that felt sub-10% - being 10/4 or 12/4 in the late game is completely normal. My personal drake high score is 17 power.
Couple with basically any burn spell to present a 1-turn clock. Even if they remove it, it still draws a card. Doubly good with removal like Conclave Tribunal - bounce CT with Dream Eater or Blink, ninja block with drakeyboi and draw the thing you topped with Eater.
Four mana is cheap enough to protect, and forces your opponent to leave in bad removal spells, since he's such an incredibly potent threat. And again, you're still ahead if they do kill it. Clean 1 for 0 all day long.
Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Much better than I expected. He's not quite at Teferi's level, but he's not that far off either. Ral's draw is far superior to Teferi's, even if you do have to play him a bit later to defend him. You can also just jam him in there - he's got a lot of loyalty, and guaranteed to generate significant advantage each turn. The instant/sorcery graveyard synergy is quite strong, and great with jumpstart. Very capable of taking over a game, with a high loyalty and solid answer selection. In the late game, he can nuke basically anything with his -3.
Expansion//Explosion
Excellent card, could very well be on the same power level as Sphinx's Rev. Damage is better than lifegain in a lot of situations (i.e. doming your opponent so drakeyboi can finish the job), and the extra mana pip isn't too hard to overcome. Very happy with two, am considering another for the board to go over the top of midrange decks.
Lava Coil - Love this. Solves a lot of BG problems, and efficient enough to get by vs aggro. Happy with three, could consider two. Four if graveyard shenanigans a'la Findbroker get to tier 1.
Chemister's Insight
This one has been solid. Holding up 4 mana with a Sabotage and this feels amazing. With jumpstart I actually find myself flooding out on these fairly often, though - three is quite possibly the right number. Bridges the midgame gap until you can start Explosion-ing.
Beacon Bolt - I really thought this would be win-more, but it solves a lot of big-creature problems. Scales well across the course of the game. Very happy with one, and jumpstart on this has been quite impactful. A second one in the board would be reasonable.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun
He's OK - six mana sorcery speed is pretty questionable, and card advantage is not something this deck lacks. I like him in the board to force plays in control mirrors, but basically nothing else. Would play Dream Eater #2 or another Ral over him without much hesitation. Casting some jumpstarted Chemister's is also a probably better use of that mana. Doesn't trade with Carnage Tyrant.
Firemind's Research - Looks good on paper, doesn't deliver all that well. Too much overlap with Azcanta, and a really awful draw mid- and late-game. Last copy is on the chopping block.
Blink of an Eye - This one is pretty medium, but is a concession to enchantments. Unhappily running two, and they get boarded out a lot. Will see how it goes. Could consider replacing with another Dream Eater and another early removal spell.
Sinister Sabotage - Very good, much better than Ionize. Easy four-of. Obviously.
Other stuff I tried:
Radical Idea - Horrible. Does nothing. This ain't no Think Twice.
Field of Ruin - More costly than I thought it would be, with so many colored mana symbols in this deck. Cut them for now, unless Azcanta/Blood Fast ends up everywhere.
Other stuff not even remotely worth trying:
Risk Factor - This card is not a consideration for a control archetype, why are people talking about it? Horrible. Play Explosion or Chemister's.
I was thinking about Dream Eater as a possible replacement for Torrential Gearhulk. He serves the same purpose against creature decks in that he gets rid of two attacking creatures (hopefully.) How has the surveil 4 been working for you?
Honestly. I think red control cards are the most overrated in all of standard, and that control decks really need to look to a White core for their removal package. I just see no way to get around not having Settle the Wreckage and Cleansing Nova. This standard format is so diverse and the threats so punishing that Red removal really just doesn't cut it.
Shock/Lightning Strike are blanked so much by Selesnya tokens, that you're going to be 2-for-1'd all of the time unless you're lucky to find a good target (Knight of Grace). They suck against History of Benalia, the best card in Standard. They suck against Rekindling Phoenix. Heck, they even suck against Conclave Cavalier. They are, in general, bad against green decks - they are dead to Steel-Leaf Champion and anything bigger than that. Killing their turn 1 elves just doesn't seem to do much - you're still going to die to 5/4's or 6/6's or worse. The format is just really unkind to Red. Removal spells, if they are doing damage, need to deal 4 damage minimum, and Exiling is rather important.
Ral also doesn't compare to Teferi, and it's just not his time. Maybe in next Standard Rotation, but I don't know why someone would actively avoid Teferi in Standard right now if they wanted to be a control deck since it's one of the best cards for a control deck, not close.
Risk Factor isn't a control card, and many people recommending that. The card does nothing to impact the board, and every time it's in your opening hand, you have stolen 1 additional option that could keep you alive. Draw 2 of them? Well, good luck with red and green decks :/ It's a bad card in control decks, and it will often lose you the game if you draw it in the first 6-7 turns.
Ionize is honestly not ideal since you're denying yourself better counters and cards at a cheaper mana cost. 1 is okay to make it easy to cast when you're light on blue mana, but the 2 damage is irrelevant - you're going to win by decking them or through your other win conditions anyway (usually Teferi, but Dream Eater has been interesting in testing).
I see some lists playing Opt - you can't waste card slots on such weak cards like this, and you won't have the mana for this in most games where you are being pressured. You don't have time to durdle in standard - the cards your opponents are playing are way too powerful.
The most successful control decks I have played have been strict Azorius (a purest form of draw-go with white for board wipes and exile-based removal) which aims to deck the opponent by cycling Devious Cover-Ups over and over again with Mission Briefing, or a light Jeskai deck that is basically Azorius splashing for Beacon Bolt, Lava Coil and Justice Strike with a mixture of Deafening Clarions/Fiery Cannonades in the mainboard and sideboard to reduce the need for cleansing nova. But I don't sacrifice my main white board wipes - they are essentially to winning against a lot of different decks. I do not run Shock or Lightning Strike at all, and the deck is pretty heavy on the blue cards as it's pretty similar to the Azorius deck.
I'm really sad that lots of people wanted counter-burn to work, but Wizards didn't make Izzet into that kind of guild this time around. It just isn't very good. And I think people need to learn that the standards for creatures are so high in Standard that Shock and Lightning Strike are not your default "premium" removal spells anymore. They are just traps now.
Honestly. I think red control cards are the most overrated in all of standard, and that control decks really need to look to a White core for their removal package. I just see no way to get around not having Settle the Wreckage and Cleansing Nova. This standard format is so diverse and the threats so punishing that Red removal really just doesn't cut it.
This is actually the point in time with the smallest card pool available to standard. Threats aren't particularly punishing, compared to other standards - not sure what you really mean, here. Cleansing Nova is very medium - it's a million years too slow alone, except maybe against specifically GW, and I guess you just got a bunch of opponents who failed to play around Settle.
Shock/Lightning Strike are blanked so much by Selesnya tokens, that you're going to be 2-for-1'd all of the time unless you're lucky to find a good target (Knight of Grace).
Fiery Cannonade is completely fine against GW tokens. The best part is that they don't have an opportunity to play around it, unlike Settle.
They suck against History of Benalia, the best card in Standard. They suck against Rekindling Phoenix. Heck, they even suck against Conclave Cavalier. They are, in general, bad against green decks - they are dead to Steel-Leaf Champion and anything bigger than that. Killing their turn 1 elves just doesn't seem to do much - you're still going to die to 5/4's or 6/6's or worse. The format is just really unkind to Red. Removal spells, if they are doing damage, need to deal 4 damage minimum, and Exiling is rather important.
The card you're looking for is Lava Coil. Getting 2-for-1'ed isn't very relevant when there's an Explosion for 4-5 waiting in the wings. UR can spew cards and be completely fine. Beacon Bolt, Ral, and countermagic can handle anything larger than four. Once I killed a Ghalta with one Beacon Bolt, straight up - good times.
Benalia hasn't been impactful in any of the ~5 or so matches I've played against the card so far. I've lost way more games to Adanto Vanguard. Anecdotal, sure, but again - UR draws so many cards it doesn't matter. Having a pile of crappy 1-mana removal really buys you time to get the draw engines rolling. The crappy things just feed Chemister's later if they're not preventing your from getting run over, or trade down against larger threats.
Ral also doesn't compare to Teferi, and it's just not his time. Maybe in next Standard Rotation, but I don't know why someone would actively avoid Teferi in Standard right now if they wanted to be a control deck since it's one of the best cards for a control deck, not close.
Ral is fine. Playing additional colors has a hard cost in standard, in terms of both life total and consistency. Teferi probably isn't enough better to be worth a splash by himself. One could draw up a bunch of edge cases where either -3 is better, where either plus 1 is better, and where each ultimate is better. Ral has the better ult, trades extra mana for selection and graveyard + jumpstart synergy, and has the worse defensive ability. Ral also starts one step closer to ultimate. The comparison isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
I see some lists playing Opt - you can't waste card slots on such weak cards like this, and you won't have the mana for this in most games where you are being pressured. You don't have time to durdle in standard - the cards your opponents are playing are way too powerful.
1 mana instant speed cantrips are durdling now? What a world we live in. It's a fine card to test, considering the amount of spells-in-graveyard synergies in UR. I could understand if it doesn't make the cut, but it makes the cut in Modern just fine. Red's slew of one-mana removal makes Opt very much playable.
The most successful control decks I have played have been strict Azorius (a purest form of draw-go with white for board wipes and exile-based removal) which aims to deck the opponent by cycling Devious Cover-Ups over and over again with Mission Briefing, or a light Jeskai deck that is basically Azorius splashing for Beacon Bolt, Lava Coil and Justice Strike with a mixture of Deafening Clarions/Fiery Cannonades in the mainboard and sideboard to reduce the need for cleansing nova. But I don't sacrifice my main white board wipes - they are essentially to winning against a lot of different decks. I do not run Shock or Lightning Strike at all, and the deck is pretty heavy on the blue cards as it's pretty similar to the Azorius deck.
That's an extremely dubious way to try and win the game without a draw engine like Rev. Sounds immensely win-more, and about zero percent to win against Experimental Frenzy Red.
I'm really sad that lots of people wanted counter-burn to work, but Wizards didn't make Izzet into that kind of guild this time around. It just isn't very good. And I think people need to learn that the standards for creatures are so high in Standard that Shock and Lightning Strike are not your default "premium" removal spells anymore. They are just traps now.
Counter-burn isn't a real thing. That's just a word people use to either mischaracterize the flexibility of direct damage spells, or to describe the bad deck they made because they don't understand the concept of tempo or why Delver of Secrets is good.
This is actually the point in time with the smallest card pool available to standard. Threats aren't particularly punishing, compared to other standards - not sure what you really mean, here. Cleansing Nova is very medium - it's a million years too slow alone, except maybe against specifically GW, and I guess you just got a bunch of opponents who failed to play around Settle.
Well, you're mis-characterizing what I am saying. Yes, it's slow - but it's also not the only sweeper I would use - and I would only run 2 copies. It's there to clean up boards that Settle isn't clearing up because opponents ARE playing around it. It's mode to deal with enchantments is also useful from time to time, in odd situations.
Yes, of course... I did mention that :/ I'd run 8 Lava Coils if I was allowed to - that would instantly make Izzet a lot better. I get the impression you're not reading what I am saying, responding to a position I did not hold, etc. Obviously you have 4 copies, and you ideally need it for more than 4 threats throughout a game. You can't hit everything with it.
Getting 2-for-1'ed isn't very relevant when there's an Explosion for 4-5 waiting in the wings. UR can spew cards and be completely fine. Beacon Bolt, Ral, and countermagic can handle anything larger than four. Once I killed a Ghalta with one Beacon Bolt, straight up - good times.
Beacon Bolt is fine as a 1-of. I did mention that too.........
Explosion is pretty optimistic in most fast games. It's a decent card, but not necessary.
Benalia hasn't been impactful in any of the ~5 or so matches I've played against the card so far.
Almost every Benalia deck I have played has had astronomically high win rates, so I don't know which opponents you are playing against but the card is very good and it does very well against control if you get it past a counter. I also still play against it a lot. On MTG Goldish, it is the #1 dominating card when averaging 3 rounds of tournament data so far. This can change, but it's seeing a lot of use and the card is winning. 5 games is also nothing. Also, the OP's deck - the deck I was responding to - did not any answer to History in the mainboard - it was in the sideboard - and that's clearly a mistake.
I've lost way more games to Adanto Vanguard. Anecdotal, sure, but again - UR draws so many cards it doesn't matter. Having a pile of crappy 1-mana removal really buys you time to get the draw engines rolling. The crappy things just feed Chemister's later if they're not preventing your from getting run over, or trade down against larger threats.
It really depends on what cards you selected. Most of the Izzet Control lists I see in the forums, on youtube, etc. are bad. If you build it more like Azorius or the Jeskai deck I briefly mentioned, then yes, you can keep pace just fine. But this also means you won't be including about 12-14 cards that most of these decks are including, like 4 ionizes, shocks, risk factors, opts, etc. - all of this stuff is pretty much useless. There are decks Izzet has a hard time dealing with that Azorius will not have problems with as well, and you will also most likely lose to the Azorius matchup too.
Ral is fine. Playing additional colors has a hard cost in standard, in terms of both life total and consistency. Teferi probably isn't enough better to be worth a splash by himself. One could draw up a bunch of edge cases where either -3 is better, where either plus 1 is better, and where each ultimate is better. Ral has the better ult, trades extra mana for selection and graveyard + jumpstart synergy, and has the worse defensive ability. Ral also starts one step closer to ultimate. The comparison isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
Ral is fine, but he's not better. Untapping 2 lands at the end of most turns is simply too good to beat. The -3 is only better later in the game when you have a lot of stuff in the graveyard - may not always be the case. I agree that Ral's ultimate is sweeter and you will win much faster, but both win you the game so... Also, Devious Cover-Up is a REALLY good magic card, and you don't even need a planeswalker to win anymore. I've won many games just draw-going my way to victory and having way too many counters and cards for my opponent to do anything. You eventually create a pretty strong soft-lock with this strategy and you are not vulnerable to playing permanents (which is why Dream Eater was so interesting to me, because it has Flash, and it's a proactive threat that is also interactive... and there's so very few cards like that in Standard these days).
Also, playing Azorius does not have the color problems you're talking about. It's mostly a blue deck with a white splash, and it plays just fine, even without Hallowed Fountain. Even the Jeskai deck I run is over 55% blue cards (and only 12% red, again very minimal red).
1 mana instant speed cantrips are durdling now? What a world we live in. It's a fine card to test, considering the amount of spells-in-graveyard synergies in UR. I could understand if it doesn't make the cut, but it makes the cut in Modern just fine. Red's slew of one-mana removal makes Opt very much playable.
I've tried it in dozens of games. My deck instantly improved when I took it out. I think for Ral's minus ability, it can be beneficial, but if you don't run Ral, Opt is not necessary.
Counter-burn isn't a real thing. That's just a word people use to either mischaracterize the flexibility of direct damage spells, or to describe the bad deck they made because they don't understand the concept of tempo or why Delver of Secrets is good.
I'd hardly control these control lists "tempo" decks....
Well, I have a different take on the deck, and it seemed more appropriate to post here than make a new thread. Counterburn IS a thing despite many misunderstanding of new players to the contrary. And I decided to build my framework around that concept. And there's two main reasons. One is that when you remove creatures completely from your deck(game1), the massive VCA you get in the current standard environment is huge. The second is that having (nearly) everything you do at instant speed allows for a lot more freedom to control the game. Which is the point of a control deck(Counterburn is hard control, it's not tempo).
Crackling Drake: Overrated. For two reasons. One being that it's a creature, which means sorcery speed, lightning rod to the removal that would otherwise be blanked. But the second is the prohibitive mana cost, which really hurts the mana base whether you realize it or not. It's, ironically, not a control card. It's a tempo card.
Search for Azcanta versus Firemind's Research: From my testing so far, Research has felt more impactful early on. It allows you to stabilize easier, which is control's main goal. It's also less of a mana sink to get value than Azcanta, while often(due to the deck being almost exclusively instants), often netting you more than a single extra card a turn in the mid-lategame. Not to mention the added bonus of it being immune to land destruction, which is very popular right now. And as for people saying it's a dead draw lategame...that's literally the point of the jump-start mechanic. To be able to pitch cards like this when they stop being so attractive.
Risk Factor: If you think this card is a Browbeat reprint, you're just wrong. Instant speed is obviously huge, especially for this deck. But being able to cast it twice is arguably more important. 8 damage from one card(and pitching a dead draw/land) is HUGE. 2 of those is basically the game assuming you either draw any other damage or they use shocklands. It's the workhorse of the deck. And if they ever allow you to draw, even better, for obvious reasons.
Inescapable Blaze: Basically this deck's replacement for Banefire. A classic control finisher. But what you trade in versatility, you make up for by getting it at instant speed. It's also one cheaper at that mark than Banefire would be. Control is popular right now, so having an uncounterable, instant-speed burn as a finisher is not to be underestimated. And conveniently, it deals 6 damage, which is precisely the toughness that Carnage Tyrant has...which is sometimes relevant.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun: Carries all the same problems(being a creature, restrictive mana cost, etc) with the Drake, but this creature IS a control card. And a great one. I'm running it in the sideboard atm for mirrors and other matches where he's relevant(sideboard is heavily in flux, so not ready to post one), but I think the value of completely blanking game1 removal means he should stay there.
Detection Tower: Yes, mainboard. Without the Drake and Parun clamping the mana to purely colored lands, you can afford to be a little more liberal with utility lands. And given that Tyrant is the deck's biggest weakness(not to mention the occasional mare or other being a problem sometimes), it worth throwing in. Rarely does it hurt the mana base hard enough to matter, and it's nice to have a mainboard answer to an otherwise untenable situation.
Now, cue people who have little to no idea what they're talking about complaining.
Seeing as the PTQ winners were announced today, and the Jeskai deck that went 9-0 did not contain Opt, Risk Factor, Shock or Lightning Strike, and it had Cleansing Nova and Settle The Wreckage in the 75 in the same numbers I gave, I'm going to call that I wasn't just blowing smoke up my butt when I was saying what I was saying. Obviously if the Jeskai deck - a deck that had access to do those cards - chose not to run them in favour of superior cards, then that means they were considered to be bad or at least less good than the 75 they actually went with. And if it's not good enough for Jeskai, then it's not good enough for Izzet either, because if the deck could have been Izzet, it would have been. Again, the mostly blue control deck was white as its second core, not the red.
And no, I don't think Risk Factor is bad in control because it's a punishment mechanic - who's care about that - it's just bad because it doesn't do anything to affect the board and effectively removes a card from your hand while are getting beaten down by the various aggro decks in the format. It's not a control card. It belongs in a burn deck, preferably mono-red.
Seeing as the PTQ winners were announced today, and the Jeskai deck that went 9-0 did not contain Opt, Risk Factor, Shock or Lightning Strike, and it had Cleansing Nova and Settle The Wreckage in the 75 in the same numbers I gave, I'm going to call that I wasn't just blowing smoke up my butt when I was saying what I was saying. Obviously if the Jeskai deck - a deck that had access to do those cards - chose not to run them in favour of superior cards, then that means they were considered to be bad or at least less good than the 75 they actually went with. And if it's not good enough for Jeskai, then it's not good enough for Izzet either, because if the deck could have been Izzet, it would have been. Again, the mostly blue control deck was white as its second core, not the red.
And no, I don't think Risk Factor is bad in control because it's a punishment mechanic - who's care about that - it's just bad because it doesn't do anything to affect the board and effectively removes a card from your hand while are getting beaten down by the various aggro decks in the format. It's not a control card. It belongs in a burn deck, preferably mono-red.
Why are you even here telling people they are wrong for wanting to play a deck?
For everyone else, here is UR list that when 5-0 in league without running "superior" cards.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I can get behind Sarkhan, sorta. Turn 4 (or turn 6 with Negate up) Niv is nothing to sneeze at, and, if dropped on curve and protected, he ults earlier than Ral, too.
Seeing as the PTQ winners were announced today, and the Jeskai deck that went 9-0 did not contain Opt, Risk Factor, Shock or Lightning Strike, and it had Cleansing Nova and Settle the Wreckage in the 75 in the same numbers I gave, I'm going to call that I wasn't just blowing smoke up my butt when I was saying what I was saying. Obviously if the Jeskai deck - a deck that had access to do those cards - chose not to run them in favour of superior cards, then that means they were considered to be bad or at least less good than the 75 they actually went with. And if it's not good enough for Jeskai, then it's not good enough for Izzet either, because if the deck could have been Izzet, it would have been. Again, the mostly blue control deck was white as its second core, not the red.
That deck was clearly a combo deck of make infinite mana with Gateway, dome them with an Explosion/Banefire. I don't think that asserts your point at all. It's much closer to the new edition of turbo-fog.
Yes, of course... I did mention that :/ I'd run 8 Lava Coils if I was allowed to - that would instantly make Izzet a lot better. I get the impression you're not reading what I am saying, responding to a position I did not hold, etc. Obviously you have 4 copies, and you ideally need it for more than 4 threats throughout a game. You can't hit everything with it.
You seem to hold at least two positions simultaneously:
(Honestly. I think red control cards are the most overrated in all of standard ... They suck against Rekindling Phoenix. Heck, they even suck against Conclave Cavalier. They are, in general, bad against green decks - they are dead to Steel-Leaf Champion and anything bigger than that ... The format is just really unkind to Red. Removal spells, if they are doing damage, need to deal 4 damage minimum, and Exiling is rather important.)
You know, except the ones that aren't bad, and actually do those things /eyeroll
Almost every Benalia deck I have played has had astronomically high win rates, so I don't know which opponents you are playing against but the card is very good and it does very well against control if you get it past a counter. I also still play against it a lot. On MTG Goldish, it is the #1 dominating card when averaging 3 rounds of tournament data so far. This can change, but it's seeing a lot of use and the card is winning.
History is fine. It's a slow 3 mana 4/4 with some upside. It overperforms because of Llanowar elves and the relative strength of GW cards around it. I don't think any specific answer outside of normal sweepers is necessary.
Also, playing Azorius does not have the color problems you're talking about. It's mostly a blue deck with a white splash, and it plays just fine, even without Hallowed Fountain. Even the Jeskai deck I run is over 55% blue cards (and only 12% red, again very minimal red).
I played about two dozen games with Rosum's Esper Control today. The mana was very medium, and I missed double blue on three or double black on four about 20% of the time. I imagine the fail rate on other three color decks is similar. Mulligan rate was about twice that of UR, usually for color reasons. Still went 8-4 in matches, though, because Teferi is indeed busted.
Counter-burn isn't a real thing. That's just a word people use to either mischaracterize the flexibility of direct damage spells, or to describe the bad deck they made because they don't understand the concept of tempo or why Delver of Secrets is good.
I'd hardly control these control lists "tempo" decks....
I don't think you understood what I said. Counterburn is synonymous with "bad tempo deck", since the strategy doesn't ever work.
On the other hand, a thing like Shock is certainly a tempo card - it very often trades up in mana spent, and allows you to spend your mana very efficiently on your opponent's turn. That can be quite valuable in a control archetype, as efficient removal wins a lot of games by taking back the initiative. Reload via whatever mechanism you have, or have a clear board on five for a Teferi/Ral. Pretty hard to do in UW, since removal starts at 2. Two mana removal on the draw is horrible, and those "bad" one mana spells win a ton of games from that position.
This has been the basis of Modern UWR control for many years, for example. This is Standard, so not every removal spell has to be Lightning Bolt quality to be worth playing. UWR in Modern also has the ability to switch its role to the aggressor in bad matchups. UR and Jeskai can do that in Standard (and UR does it better), while Esper or UW have no ability to do so, unless one builds some kind of crazy transformational sideboard.
I own (in paper) probably every control archetype that has existed in the past five or ten years, from Legacy Miracles/Czech Pile to Modern UWR/Miracles/Tron (yes, Tron is a control deck) to Standard UW Rev durdlefiesta. From all of that, I have learned many things, including that role flexibility is hugely valuable (so don't underrate the bad red cards). I'm not saying that the white core is bad (it isn't), it's just not as necessary as you suggest, and has significant holes that need to be filled by other colors anyway.
Any reason people are not trying out Azor's Gateway with Expansion // Explosion in a Jeskai list? It seems really good right now since it's pretty likely to flip during a game.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
On arena im facing nonstop jeskai control (thanks free teferi and ral) so maindeck nezahl primal tide has been incredible. There are a lot of dead cards like shivan fire and lava coil and essence scatter to pitch anyways so the first exile is basically free.
Im iffy on drake and niv mizzet but still trying them. I like niv out of the board but otherwise both are cantripping and eating an otherwise dead removal spell. I suspect drake will earn its keep to the extent we need outs to resolved vinemare and such
I dont like opt here. This is not a deck with a lot of situational cards so digging isnt especially valuable. It feeds drake and ral but those will get there on their own anyways without help (same for azcanta)
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Well, since I really like both Ral and Niv-Mizzet (lore-wise), I was excited to try them out on MTG Arena in an Izzet control shell. After reading through this topic and playing some games with the deck running 2 copies of Niv-Mizzet, Parun and two Ral, Izzet Viceroys as well as 3 Enigma Drakes and 4 Crackling Drakes I decided it would be better to try going creatureless rendering lots of removal useless (though still for black and green both Vraska's Contempt and Assassin's Trophy are very much alive...) Since just 3 copies of Ral is not enough wincons I decided to add two Firemind's Research.
Since I'm new to MTGA I do not have all the cards - I will get to 4 copies of Steam Vents/Sulfur Falls. Second Detection Tower would albo be nice versus Carnage Tyrant and possibly other hexproof threats. Since first game creature removal is useless, siding in the creature threats from the board should be strong in Bo3 matches. So far the deck looks decent in Constructed Events (Best of 1). This format is played until 3 losses or 7 wins. In three runs I went 6-3, 0-3 (or possibly 1-3), 7-2 (or 7-1, don't remember). I could have played the first two matches better in the second series, last one I got mana screwed and beaten down by Simic Merfolks)
4 copies of Cannonade is good versus aggro and versus other decks it's often simply jump-start fodder. Firemind's Research has been surprisingly good versus Dimir control decks (discard shenanigans) thanks to the steady stream of draw it provides, especially since counter wars produce so many charge counters. Even when they tucked with Teferi I've been able to kill him in response, which is great. I think the deck also has decent matchups versus Jeskai/Azorius control. I've been able to beat Teferi decks multiple times by patient play, usually winning with Ral's ultimate, sometimes with some help of the Firemind's Research burn.
Biggest problem so far have been explosive starts by aggressive decks (double or triple consecutive casts of History of Benalia, especially when I got no Cannonade in hand) and green stompy decks when they draw well, but I guess this is the case for everyone. I probably should introduce some answers for artifact threats (Immortal Sun could really screw this deck over), but so far I've run into none. Goblin Cratermaker could be decent from the sideboard. Of course, as always for UR, enchantments are a problem as we have no answers for them if they resolve. But I've been surprised by how well the deck was doing.
Possibly the deck could run a transformational sideboard towards an aggro wizards deck with Adeliz or tempo Drakes. I think it really has potential, especially since this list isn't refined.
Well, since I really like both Ral and Niv-Mizzet (lore-wise), I was excited to try them out on MTG Arena in an Izzet control shell. After reading through this topic and playing some games with the deck running 2 copies of Niv-Mizzet, Parun and two Ral, Izzet Viceroys as well as 3 Enigma Drakes and 4 Crackling Drakes I decided it would be better to try going creatureless rendering lots of removal useless (though still for black and green both Vraska's Contempt and Assassin's Trophy are very much alive...) Since just 3 copies of Ral is not enough wincons I decided to add two Firemind's Research.
Since I'm new to MTGA I do not have all the cards - I will get to 4 copies of Steam Vents/Sulfur Falls. Second Detection Tower would albo be nice versus Carnage Tyrant and possibly other hexproof threats. Since first game creature removal is useless, siding in the creature threats from the board should be strong in Bo3 matches. So far the deck looks decent in Constructed Events (Best of 1). This format is played until 3 losses or 7 wins. In three runs I went 6-3, 0-3 (or possibly 1-3), 7-2 (or 7-1, don't remember). I could have played the first two matches better in the second series, last one I got mana screwed and beaten down by Simic Merfolks)
4 copies of Cannonade is good versus aggro and versus other decks it's often simply jump-start fodder. Firemind's Research has been surprisingly good versus Dimir control decks (discard shenanigans) thanks to the steady stream of draw it provides, especially since counter wars produce so many charge counters. Even when they tucked with Teferi I've been able to kill him in response, which is great. I think the deck also has decent matchups versus Jeskai/Azorius control. I've been able to beat Teferi decks multiple times by patient play, usually winning with Ral's ultimate, sometimes with some help of the Firemind's Research burn.
Biggest problem so far have been explosive starts by aggressive decks (double or triple consecutive casts of History of Benalia, especially when I got no Cannonade in hand) and green stompy decks when they draw well, but I guess this is the case for everyone. I probably should introduce some answers for artifact threats (Immortal Sun could really screw this deck over), but so far I've run into none. Goblin Cratermaker could be decent from the sideboard. Of course, as always for UR, enchantments are a problem as we have no answers for them if they resolve. But I've been surprised by how well the deck was doing.
Possibly the deck could run a transformational sideboard towards an aggro wizards deck with Adeliz or tempo Drakes. I think it really has potential, especially since this list isn't refined.
So a big problem with this deck is dealing with big green creatures. Sure we have Beacon Bolt but it can be a little unreliable. Why don't we play with Fight With Fire? It seems to hit all the of the early big creatures while potentially being a wincon/board wipe later in the game.
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:simic::azorius::selesnya: Prime Speaker Bant:selesnya::azorius::simic:
Expansion // Explosion has been quite good. The modality is what makes the card - I am not sure it would be worth playing if it was just Explosion. It's situational, it can clog your hand versus aggro, but then again I made use of it even in the RDW matchups. Expansion can copy burn spells, killing their creatures, it's great in counter wars when you fight to keep that Teferi off the board, it can copy ramp (Circuitous Route) or other removal (Vraska's Contempt, Assassin's Trophy, Cast Down, Price of Fame, though the last two are pretty dead against my list, but it's relevant for the lists running drakes, Niv and possibly Nezahal), as well as give you the win when you chain spellcasts with resolved Ral's ultimate. Expansion usually acts as lategame removal or goes to the dome for the finish. It's been good. Could it be replaced by something better? I have no idea. Banefire comes to mind, which I do have in the sideboard - but I haven't played any Bo3 yet.
Squee and Mare definitely look interesting, but that would be transformation towards aggro. Squee could be getting tucked by Teferi, losing some of his stickiness - but he could still get back every or every second turn with the amount of draw this deck has. This wouldn't be the best use of Teferi's loyalty... I think he'd be a contender. Lightning mare just seems very fragile, but it does get past Nezahal and Izzet drakes. Niv just pings it off and it dies to every single piece of removal and every board clear. Might be hard to protect, but has the ability to close out games much faster than Squee (and leaves you with mana tapped). But as I said, no Bo3 experience so far. Going the aggro route could definitely catch some people off-guard.
Fight with Fire has the problem of being a 3 mana sorcery speed removal. I think Lava Coil is better as removal because it's one mana cheaper. Quite often on turn three you want to leave mana open to be able to counter that pesky Nullhide Ferox or Vine Mare when you are on the draw. Lava Coil does kill the Steel Leaf Champion in case it resolved T2 off of Llanowar Elves, with Fight with Fire you'd take more damage. Unless you want to run both - but then what to cut? I could see getting rid of Expansion // Explosion, as both cards can double as both removal and wincons. That could improve the aggro matchup, but worsen the control matchup as you lose that additional edge in counter wars as well as a source of draw.
Hm, what about The Mirari Conjecture as a possible wincon? We could also run Jaya Ballard alongside Ral. I'm looking for other noncreature wincons as just Ral might not be enough (Unmoored Ego, Ixalan's Binding), and Firemind's Research is very slow. I know some people were running Azor's Gateway as a way to cast huge Explosions, but that was in Jeskai. We don't have lifegain in UR, so that might be a problem. Going Grixis or Jeskai might be necessary for that to work well. Thousand-Year Storm? That also requires lots of mana.
Maybe Vance's Blasting Cannons as a way to slowly burn them out? Similarly to how control decks in Innistrad's age used Nephalia Drownyard and Stensia Bloodhall. There's still Chandra, Bold Pyromancer, which adds inevitability with constant pings, but she's quite expensive at 6 mana (it's just 1 more than Ral though). Sarkhan, Dragonsoul seems rather weak, while Sarkhan, Fireblood doesn't really make any sense if we don't run Niv-Mizzet (or other dragons). With a splash of black Angrath, the Flame-Chained would be a contender. I don't consider Nicol Bolas, as he's partially a creature in his most recent incarnation. Karn, Scion of Urza doesn't really win by himself.
4 Crackling Drake
2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
Spells (30)
4 Opt
2 Shock
1 Spell Pierce
2 Syncopate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Lightning Strike
2 Negate
3 Ionize
3 Risk Factor
3 Sinister Sabotage
2 Chemister's Insight
2 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Field of Ruin
8 Island
5 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
Not even going to post the garbage that I've got in the side because it needs some serious rethinking. I've been playing it on both MTGO and MTGA with decent success but definitely still a WiP.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Have been playing the current list updated by OP in MTG Arena and it's a very good deck. Niv-Mizzet, Parun has been insane as a finisher.
I think i'm playing this over my Esper Control list, UR Control is a lot more consistent and has a much better matchup against aggro/token decks and the sideboard plan against control works perfectly.
We could try Risk Factor instead of Inescapable Blaze but maybe it's not a good idea because the latter is also removal.
-Stay Frosty
DO NOT play Risk Factor as your main card advantage spell. Giving your opponent a choice like that has always been bad, since the days of Browbeat. Being instant is a large improvement, but playing it with little or no other draw, and you're probably going to have a bad time. Good luck!
Edit: Also you will maybe have to take my word on this but I have done a ton of testing and Firemind's Research is absolutely INSANE in control mirrors. I initially thought it was a meme card but in this one context it is really really good. Like markedly better than Ral in control matchups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMZ4yv91_s
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/BJpedXJ9Q
Competitive Constructed Results:
14-7 (4-3, 5-2x2)
Unfortunately, wasn't taking very good matchup notes since I didn't really expect the deck to be that great. I was wrong.
Here's my current list:
2 Izzet Guildgate
1 Memorial to Genius
7 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Crackling Drake
1 Dream Eater
2 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Blink of an Eye
4 Chemister's Insight
2 Expansion // Explosion
1 Fiery Cannonade
2 Ionize
3 Lava Coil
4 Lightning Strike
3 Shock
4 Sinister Sabotage
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Essence Scatter
2 Fiery Cannonade
1 Firemind's Research
3 Negate
1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
1 Shock
Overall impressions:
UR is really good. Stable, mostly-painless mana, and definitely got a lot of the most powerful cards from GRN. Crackling Drake makes this archetype, and I fully expect to see a lot of drakeyboi in Standard. At this point, I don't really feel a third color is necessary - UR can turn the corner and clock the opponent very quickly. Am planning on trying out Jeskai and Grixis as well, but I find it hard to cut cards from this UR list.
Card choices:
Crackling Drake
This card is NUTS. Completely absurd. All UR builds should play 4, anything else is flat-out incorrect.
It does everything. Blocks anything, kills your opponent VERY quickly, AND generates card advantage. It can both trade with and straight up race Carnage Tyrants - no problem. Second set of matches had two opponents with MD Tyrants. Didn't matter, they got clocked by Drakes and died. NICE DINOSAUR. Same scenario for Vine Mare, when you can't just counter it. This card is what makes me think a black splash for sacrifice effects just isn't necessary (nor white for sweepers). Just kill your opponent.
Drakeyboi has stolen many games that felt sub-10% - being 10/4 or 12/4 in the late game is completely normal. My personal drake high score is 17 power.
Couple with basically any burn spell to present a 1-turn clock. Even if they remove it, it still draws a card. Doubly good with removal like Conclave Tribunal - bounce CT with Dream Eater or Blink, ninja block with drakeyboi and draw the thing you topped with Eater.
Four mana is cheap enough to protect, and forces your opponent to leave in bad removal spells, since he's such an incredibly potent threat. And again, you're still ahead if they do kill it. Clean 1 for 0 all day long.
Ral, Izzet Viceroy
Much better than I expected. He's not quite at Teferi's level, but he's not that far off either. Ral's draw is far superior to Teferi's, even if you do have to play him a bit later to defend him. You can also just jam him in there - he's got a lot of loyalty, and guaranteed to generate significant advantage each turn. The instant/sorcery graveyard synergy is quite strong, and great with jumpstart. Very capable of taking over a game, with a high loyalty and solid answer selection. In the late game, he can nuke basically anything with his -3.
Expansion//Explosion
Excellent card, could very well be on the same power level as Sphinx's Rev. Damage is better than lifegain in a lot of situations (i.e. doming your opponent so drakeyboi can finish the job), and the extra mana pip isn't too hard to overcome. Very happy with two, am considering another for the board to go over the top of midrange decks.
Lava Coil - Love this. Solves a lot of BG problems, and efficient enough to get by vs aggro. Happy with three, could consider two. Four if graveyard shenanigans a'la Findbroker get to tier 1.
Chemister's Insight
This one has been solid. Holding up 4 mana with a Sabotage and this feels amazing. With jumpstart I actually find myself flooding out on these fairly often, though - three is quite possibly the right number. Bridges the midgame gap until you can start Explosion-ing.
Beacon Bolt - I really thought this would be win-more, but it solves a lot of big-creature problems. Scales well across the course of the game. Very happy with one, and jumpstart on this has been quite impactful. A second one in the board would be reasonable.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun
He's OK - six mana sorcery speed is pretty questionable, and card advantage is not something this deck lacks. I like him in the board to force plays in control mirrors, but basically nothing else. Would play Dream Eater #2 or another Ral over him without much hesitation. Casting some jumpstarted Chemister's is also a probably better use of that mana. Doesn't trade with Carnage Tyrant.
Firemind's Research - Looks good on paper, doesn't deliver all that well. Too much overlap with Azcanta, and a really awful draw mid- and late-game. Last copy is on the chopping block.
Blink of an Eye - This one is pretty medium, but is a concession to enchantments. Unhappily running two, and they get boarded out a lot. Will see how it goes. Could consider replacing with another Dream Eater and another early removal spell.
Sinister Sabotage - Very good, much better than Ionize. Easy four-of. Obviously.
Other stuff I tried:
Radical Idea - Horrible. Does nothing. This ain't no Think Twice.
Field of Ruin - More costly than I thought it would be, with so many colored mana symbols in this deck. Cut them for now, unless Azcanta/Blood Fast ends up everywhere.
Other stuff not even remotely worth trying:
Risk Factor - This card is not a consideration for a control archetype, why are people talking about it? Horrible. Play Explosion or Chemister's.
4 Sulfur Falls
7 Mountain
9 Island
4 Crackling Drake
2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Ionize
3 Sinister Sabotage
2 Shock
2 Lava Coil
4 Lightning Strike
4 Opt
2 Chemister's Insight
2 Mission Briefing
2 Essence Scatter
2 Expansion // Explosion
I was thinking about Dream Eater as a possible replacement for Torrential Gearhulk. He serves the same purpose against creature decks in that he gets rid of two attacking creatures (hopefully.) How has the surveil 4 been working for you?
Shock/Lightning Strike are blanked so much by Selesnya tokens, that you're going to be 2-for-1'd all of the time unless you're lucky to find a good target (Knight of Grace). They suck against History of Benalia, the best card in Standard. They suck against Rekindling Phoenix. Heck, they even suck against Conclave Cavalier. They are, in general, bad against green decks - they are dead to Steel-Leaf Champion and anything bigger than that. Killing their turn 1 elves just doesn't seem to do much - you're still going to die to 5/4's or 6/6's or worse. The format is just really unkind to Red. Removal spells, if they are doing damage, need to deal 4 damage minimum, and Exiling is rather important.
Ral also doesn't compare to Teferi, and it's just not his time. Maybe in next Standard Rotation, but I don't know why someone would actively avoid Teferi in Standard right now if they wanted to be a control deck since it's one of the best cards for a control deck, not close.
Risk Factor isn't a control card, and many people recommending that. The card does nothing to impact the board, and every time it's in your opening hand, you have stolen 1 additional option that could keep you alive. Draw 2 of them? Well, good luck with red and green decks :/ It's a bad card in control decks, and it will often lose you the game if you draw it in the first 6-7 turns.
Ionize is honestly not ideal since you're denying yourself better counters and cards at a cheaper mana cost. 1 is okay to make it easy to cast when you're light on blue mana, but the 2 damage is irrelevant - you're going to win by decking them or through your other win conditions anyway (usually Teferi, but Dream Eater has been interesting in testing).
I see some lists playing Opt - you can't waste card slots on such weak cards like this, and you won't have the mana for this in most games where you are being pressured. You don't have time to durdle in standard - the cards your opponents are playing are way too powerful.
The most successful control decks I have played have been strict Azorius (a purest form of draw-go with white for board wipes and exile-based removal) which aims to deck the opponent by cycling Devious Cover-Ups over and over again with Mission Briefing, or a light Jeskai deck that is basically Azorius splashing for Beacon Bolt, Lava Coil and Justice Strike with a mixture of Deafening Clarions/Fiery Cannonades in the mainboard and sideboard to reduce the need for cleansing nova. But I don't sacrifice my main white board wipes - they are essentially to winning against a lot of different decks. I do not run Shock or Lightning Strike at all, and the deck is pretty heavy on the blue cards as it's pretty similar to the Azorius deck.
I'm really sad that lots of people wanted counter-burn to work, but Wizards didn't make Izzet into that kind of guild this time around. It just isn't very good. And I think people need to learn that the standards for creatures are so high in Standard that Shock and Lightning Strike are not your default "premium" removal spells anymore. They are just traps now.
This is actually the point in time with the smallest card pool available to standard. Threats aren't particularly punishing, compared to other standards - not sure what you really mean, here. Cleansing Nova is very medium - it's a million years too slow alone, except maybe against specifically GW, and I guess you just got a bunch of opponents who failed to play around Settle.
Fiery Cannonade is completely fine against GW tokens. The best part is that they don't have an opportunity to play around it, unlike Settle.
The card you're looking for is Lava Coil. Getting 2-for-1'ed isn't very relevant when there's an Explosion for 4-5 waiting in the wings. UR can spew cards and be completely fine. Beacon Bolt, Ral, and countermagic can handle anything larger than four. Once I killed a Ghalta with one Beacon Bolt, straight up - good times.
Benalia hasn't been impactful in any of the ~5 or so matches I've played against the card so far. I've lost way more games to Adanto Vanguard. Anecdotal, sure, but again - UR draws so many cards it doesn't matter. Having a pile of crappy 1-mana removal really buys you time to get the draw engines rolling. The crappy things just feed Chemister's later if they're not preventing your from getting run over, or trade down against larger threats.
Ral is fine. Playing additional colors has a hard cost in standard, in terms of both life total and consistency. Teferi probably isn't enough better to be worth a splash by himself. One could draw up a bunch of edge cases where either -3 is better, where either plus 1 is better, and where each ultimate is better. Ral has the better ult, trades extra mana for selection and graveyard + jumpstart synergy, and has the worse defensive ability. Ral also starts one step closer to ultimate. The comparison isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
1 mana instant speed cantrips are durdling now? What a world we live in. It's a fine card to test, considering the amount of spells-in-graveyard synergies in UR. I could understand if it doesn't make the cut, but it makes the cut in Modern just fine. Red's slew of one-mana removal makes Opt very much playable.
That's an extremely dubious way to try and win the game without a draw engine like Rev. Sounds immensely win-more, and about zero percent to win against Experimental Frenzy Red.
Counter-burn isn't a real thing. That's just a word people use to either mischaracterize the flexibility of direct damage spells, or to describe the bad deck they made because they don't understand the concept of tempo or why Delver of Secrets is good.
Well, you're mis-characterizing what I am saying. Yes, it's slow - but it's also not the only sweeper I would use - and I would only run 2 copies. It's there to clean up boards that Settle isn't clearing up because opponents ARE playing around it. It's mode to deal with enchantments is also useful from time to time, in odd situations.
I like this card just fine... I did mention it as one of the good ones. That and Lava Coil are the two really good pure red removal cards.
Yes, of course... I did mention that :/ I'd run 8 Lava Coils if I was allowed to - that would instantly make Izzet a lot better. I get the impression you're not reading what I am saying, responding to a position I did not hold, etc. Obviously you have 4 copies, and you ideally need it for more than 4 threats throughout a game. You can't hit everything with it.
Beacon Bolt is fine as a 1-of. I did mention that too.........
Explosion is pretty optimistic in most fast games. It's a decent card, but not necessary.
Almost every Benalia deck I have played has had astronomically high win rates, so I don't know which opponents you are playing against but the card is very good and it does very well against control if you get it past a counter. I also still play against it a lot. On MTG Goldish, it is the #1 dominating card when averaging 3 rounds of tournament data so far. This can change, but it's seeing a lot of use and the card is winning. 5 games is also nothing. Also, the OP's deck - the deck I was responding to - did not any answer to History in the mainboard - it was in the sideboard - and that's clearly a mistake.
It really depends on what cards you selected. Most of the Izzet Control lists I see in the forums, on youtube, etc. are bad. If you build it more like Azorius or the Jeskai deck I briefly mentioned, then yes, you can keep pace just fine. But this also means you won't be including about 12-14 cards that most of these decks are including, like 4 ionizes, shocks, risk factors, opts, etc. - all of this stuff is pretty much useless. There are decks Izzet has a hard time dealing with that Azorius will not have problems with as well, and you will also most likely lose to the Azorius matchup too.
Ral is fine, but he's not better. Untapping 2 lands at the end of most turns is simply too good to beat. The -3 is only better later in the game when you have a lot of stuff in the graveyard - may not always be the case. I agree that Ral's ultimate is sweeter and you will win much faster, but both win you the game so... Also, Devious Cover-Up is a REALLY good magic card, and you don't even need a planeswalker to win anymore. I've won many games just draw-going my way to victory and having way too many counters and cards for my opponent to do anything. You eventually create a pretty strong soft-lock with this strategy and you are not vulnerable to playing permanents (which is why Dream Eater was so interesting to me, because it has Flash, and it's a proactive threat that is also interactive... and there's so very few cards like that in Standard these days).
Also, playing Azorius does not have the color problems you're talking about. It's mostly a blue deck with a white splash, and it plays just fine, even without Hallowed Fountain. Even the Jeskai deck I run is over 55% blue cards (and only 12% red, again very minimal red).
I've tried it in dozens of games. My deck instantly improved when I took it out. I think for Ral's minus ability, it can be beneficial, but if you don't run Ral, Opt is not necessary.
I'd hardly control these control lists "tempo" decks....
4 Lightning Strike
4 Risk Factor
2 Inescapable Blaze
4 Sinister Sabotage
4 Chemister's Insight
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Syncopate
2 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
3 Firemind's Research
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Detection Tower
2 Field of Ruin
7 Island
6 Mountain
Crackling Drake: Overrated. For two reasons. One being that it's a creature, which means sorcery speed, lightning rod to the removal that would otherwise be blanked. But the second is the prohibitive mana cost, which really hurts the mana base whether you realize it or not. It's, ironically, not a control card. It's a tempo card.
Search for Azcanta versus Firemind's Research: From my testing so far, Research has felt more impactful early on. It allows you to stabilize easier, which is control's main goal. It's also less of a mana sink to get value than Azcanta, while often(due to the deck being almost exclusively instants), often netting you more than a single extra card a turn in the mid-lategame. Not to mention the added bonus of it being immune to land destruction, which is very popular right now. And as for people saying it's a dead draw lategame...that's literally the point of the jump-start mechanic. To be able to pitch cards like this when they stop being so attractive.
Risk Factor: If you think this card is a Browbeat reprint, you're just wrong. Instant speed is obviously huge, especially for this deck. But being able to cast it twice is arguably more important. 8 damage from one card(and pitching a dead draw/land) is HUGE. 2 of those is basically the game assuming you either draw any other damage or they use shocklands. It's the workhorse of the deck. And if they ever allow you to draw, even better, for obvious reasons.
Inescapable Blaze: Basically this deck's replacement for Banefire. A classic control finisher. But what you trade in versatility, you make up for by getting it at instant speed. It's also one cheaper at that mark than Banefire would be. Control is popular right now, so having an uncounterable, instant-speed burn as a finisher is not to be underestimated. And conveniently, it deals 6 damage, which is precisely the toughness that Carnage Tyrant has...which is sometimes relevant.
Niv-Mizzet, Parun: Carries all the same problems(being a creature, restrictive mana cost, etc) with the Drake, but this creature IS a control card. And a great one. I'm running it in the sideboard atm for mirrors and other matches where he's relevant(sideboard is heavily in flux, so not ready to post one), but I think the value of completely blanking game1 removal means he should stay there.
Detection Tower: Yes, mainboard. Without the Drake and Parun clamping the mana to purely colored lands, you can afford to be a little more liberal with utility lands. And given that Tyrant is the deck's biggest weakness(not to mention the occasional mare or other being a problem sometimes), it worth throwing in. Rarely does it hurt the mana base hard enough to matter, and it's nice to have a mainboard answer to an otherwise untenable situation.
Now, cue people who have little to no idea what they're talking about complaining.
And no, I don't think Risk Factor is bad in control because it's a punishment mechanic - who's care about that - it's just bad because it doesn't do anything to affect the board and effectively removes a card from your hand while are getting beaten down by the various aggro decks in the format. It's not a control card. It belongs in a burn deck, preferably mono-red.
For everyone else, here is UR list that when 5-0 in league without running "superior" cards.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/new#paper
C Long Live Eldrazi C
-Stay Frosty
I can get behind Sarkhan, sorta. Turn 4 (or turn 6 with Negate up) Niv is nothing to sneeze at, and, if dropped on curve and protected, he ults earlier than Ral, too.
That deck was clearly a combo deck of make infinite mana with Gateway, dome them with an Explosion/Banefire. I don't think that asserts your point at all. It's much closer to the new edition of turbo-fog.
Take your sanctimonious negativity elsewhere.
You seem to hold at least two positions simultaneously:
(Honestly. I think red control cards are the most overrated in all of standard ... They suck against Rekindling Phoenix. Heck, they even suck against Conclave Cavalier. They are, in general, bad against green decks - they are dead to Steel-Leaf Champion and anything bigger than that ... The format is just really unkind to Red. Removal spells, if they are doing damage, need to deal 4 damage minimum, and Exiling is rather important.)
You know, except the ones that aren't bad, and actually do those things /eyeroll
Except it's a 4-of and the wincon of the PTQ deck that you self-righteously used to assert your correctness. Solid.
History is fine. It's a slow 3 mana 4/4 with some upside. It overperforms because of Llanowar elves and the relative strength of GW cards around it. I don't think any specific answer outside of normal sweepers is necessary.
I played about two dozen games with Rosum's Esper Control today. The mana was very medium, and I missed double blue on three or double black on four about 20% of the time. I imagine the fail rate on other three color decks is similar. Mulligan rate was about twice that of UR, usually for color reasons. Still went 8-4 in matches, though, because Teferi is indeed busted.
I don't think you understood what I said. Counterburn is synonymous with "bad tempo deck", since the strategy doesn't ever work.
On the other hand, a thing like Shock is certainly a tempo card - it very often trades up in mana spent, and allows you to spend your mana very efficiently on your opponent's turn. That can be quite valuable in a control archetype, as efficient removal wins a lot of games by taking back the initiative. Reload via whatever mechanism you have, or have a clear board on five for a Teferi/Ral. Pretty hard to do in UW, since removal starts at 2. Two mana removal on the draw is horrible, and those "bad" one mana spells win a ton of games from that position.
This has been the basis of Modern UWR control for many years, for example. This is Standard, so not every removal spell has to be Lightning Bolt quality to be worth playing. UWR in Modern also has the ability to switch its role to the aggressor in bad matchups. UR and Jeskai can do that in Standard (and UR does it better), while Esper or UW have no ability to do so, unless one builds some kind of crazy transformational sideboard.
I own (in paper) probably every control archetype that has existed in the past five or ten years, from Legacy Miracles/Czech Pile to Modern UWR/Miracles/Tron (yes, Tron is a control deck) to Standard UW Rev durdlefiesta. From all of that, I have learned many things, including that role flexibility is hugely valuable (so don't underrate the bad red cards). I'm not saying that the white core is bad (it isn't), it's just not as necessary as you suggest, and has significant holes that need to be filled by other colors anyway.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Im iffy on drake and niv mizzet but still trying them. I like niv out of the board but otherwise both are cantripping and eating an otherwise dead removal spell. I suspect drake will earn its keep to the extent we need outs to resolved vinemare and such
I dont like opt here. This is not a deck with a lot of situational cards so digging isnt especially valuable. It feeds drake and ral but those will get there on their own anyways without help (same for azcanta)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
3 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2 Firemind's Research
2 Expansion // Explosion
Removal (13):
3 Shock
2 Lava Coil
3 Lightning Strike
4 Fiery Cannonade
1 Beacon Bolt
Counters (9):
2 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
1 Devious Cover-Up
4 Sinister Sabotage
3 Radical Idea
3 Chemister's Insight
1 Mission Briefing
Lands (24):
8 Island
6 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
2 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Detection Tower
2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
1 Nezahal, Primal Tide
1 Dream Eater
2 Shivan Fire
1 Lightning Strike
2 Fight with Fire
3 Banefire
1 Star of Extinction
1 Expansion // Explosion
1 Lava Coil
Since I'm new to MTGA I do not have all the cards - I will get to 4 copies of Steam Vents/Sulfur Falls. Second Detection Tower would albo be nice versus Carnage Tyrant and possibly other hexproof threats. Since first game creature removal is useless, siding in the creature threats from the board should be strong in Bo3 matches. So far the deck looks decent in Constructed Events (Best of 1). This format is played until 3 losses or 7 wins. In three runs I went 6-3, 0-3 (or possibly 1-3), 7-2 (or 7-1, don't remember). I could have played the first two matches better in the second series, last one I got mana screwed and beaten down by Simic Merfolks)
4 copies of Cannonade is good versus aggro and versus other decks it's often simply jump-start fodder. Firemind's Research has been surprisingly good versus Dimir control decks (discard shenanigans) thanks to the steady stream of draw it provides, especially since counter wars produce so many charge counters. Even when they tucked with Teferi I've been able to kill him in response, which is great. I think the deck also has decent matchups versus Jeskai/Azorius control. I've been able to beat Teferi decks multiple times by patient play, usually winning with Ral's ultimate, sometimes with some help of the Firemind's Research burn.
Biggest problem so far have been explosive starts by aggressive decks (double or triple consecutive casts of History of Benalia, especially when I got no Cannonade in hand) and green stompy decks when they draw well, but I guess this is the case for everyone. I probably should introduce some answers for artifact threats (Immortal Sun could really screw this deck over), but so far I've run into none. Goblin Cratermaker could be decent from the sideboard. Of course, as always for UR, enchantments are a problem as we have no answers for them if they resolve. But I've been surprised by how well the deck was doing.
Possibly the deck could run a transformational sideboard towards an aggro wizards deck with Adeliz or tempo Drakes. I think it really has potential, especially since this list isn't refined.
Also, thoughts on Squee, the Immortal or Lightning Mare vs control match ups?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Expansion // Explosion has been quite good. The modality is what makes the card - I am not sure it would be worth playing if it was just Explosion. It's situational, it can clog your hand versus aggro, but then again I made use of it even in the RDW matchups. Expansion can copy burn spells, killing their creatures, it's great in counter wars when you fight to keep that Teferi off the board, it can copy ramp (Circuitous Route) or other removal (Vraska's Contempt, Assassin's Trophy, Cast Down, Price of Fame, though the last two are pretty dead against my list, but it's relevant for the lists running drakes, Niv and possibly Nezahal), as well as give you the win when you chain spellcasts with resolved Ral's ultimate. Expansion usually acts as lategame removal or goes to the dome for the finish. It's been good. Could it be replaced by something better? I have no idea. Banefire comes to mind, which I do have in the sideboard - but I haven't played any Bo3 yet.
Squee and Mare definitely look interesting, but that would be transformation towards aggro. Squee could be getting tucked by Teferi, losing some of his stickiness - but he could still get back every or every second turn with the amount of draw this deck has. This wouldn't be the best use of Teferi's loyalty... I think he'd be a contender. Lightning mare just seems very fragile, but it does get past Nezahal and Izzet drakes. Niv just pings it off and it dies to every single piece of removal and every board clear. Might be hard to protect, but has the ability to close out games much faster than Squee (and leaves you with mana tapped). But as I said, no Bo3 experience so far. Going the aggro route could definitely catch some people off-guard.
Fight with Fire has the problem of being a 3 mana sorcery speed removal. I think Lava Coil is better as removal because it's one mana cheaper. Quite often on turn three you want to leave mana open to be able to counter that pesky Nullhide Ferox or Vine Mare when you are on the draw. Lava Coil does kill the Steel Leaf Champion in case it resolved T2 off of Llanowar Elves, with Fight with Fire you'd take more damage. Unless you want to run both - but then what to cut? I could see getting rid of Expansion // Explosion, as both cards can double as both removal and wincons. That could improve the aggro matchup, but worsen the control matchup as you lose that additional edge in counter wars as well as a source of draw.
Maybe Vance's Blasting Cannons as a way to slowly burn them out? Similarly to how control decks in Innistrad's age used Nephalia Drownyard and Stensia Bloodhall. There's still Chandra, Bold Pyromancer, which adds inevitability with constant pings, but she's quite expensive at 6 mana (it's just 1 more than Ral though). Sarkhan, Dragonsoul seems rather weak, while Sarkhan, Fireblood doesn't really make any sense if we don't run Niv-Mizzet (or other dragons). With a splash of black Angrath, the Flame-Chained would be a contender. I don't consider Nicol Bolas, as he's partially a creature in his most recent incarnation. Karn, Scion of Urza doesn't really win by himself.