Somethings I learned, (unless XMAGE is wrong) Harpooner will not trigger Collector EtB if pelt has 2 counters and there are creatures in the grave. I thought that you could stack the triggers to get the +X/0 for the harpooner then the Collector checks and a counter is received. Same with Branchwalker or Jadelight Ranger, I thought you could resolve exploring then if power is great Collector get his.
The decks I played against, except for Goblins~they just went "wide", had a lot of removal and counters so my early stuff was negated but everything died to normal removal so missing vehicles, Rhonas and blossom showed up. As a result Ghalta is less attractive, definitely going down to 2 if any at all.
In fact I was so shell shocked at the poor performance I doubt the deck has legs right now. Granted its a VERY small testing phase but it felt terrible since I am all in and so pumped about it.
I am thinking Carnage Tyrant would just be better as a 3 of.
You had 3 aggro decks in front of you. When I said Deathgorge Scavenger was important, your results support that statement. If you play 4, maybe you'll get better results. How useful were the Brontodons & couldn't they be sent in the SB instead ?
I also defend cards like Song of Freyalise that gives the team trample, because it's very easy to chumpblock most of the green creatures. The lack of evasion is one huge flaw. We also lose races to big flyers that we can't block. Another option is to play more removal. The SB configurations are wide in GB. But there's also the question of whether black is the right splash. In white, we can gain a ton of life and have a decent removal suite. Some creature are also pretty good.
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You had 3 aggro decks in front of you. When I said Deathgorge Scavenger was important, your results support that statement. If you play 4, maybe you'll get better results. How useful were the Brontodons & couldn't they be sent in the SB instead ?
I also defend cards like Song of Freyalise that gives the team trample, because it's very easy to chumpblock most of the green creatures. The lack of evasion is one huge flaw. We also lose races to big flyers that we can't block. Another option is to play more removal. The SB configurations are wide in GB. But there's also the question of whether black is the right splash. In white, we can gain a ton of life and have a decent removal suite. Some creature are also pretty good.
"You had 3 aggro decks in front of you." What do mean?
I didnt play against any aggro decks and thought Gorger could pump Pelt on 2 counters but it cant (unless XMAGE is wrong). Gorger didnt really do anything against any deck except eat my own Carnage tyrant so he couldnt take it with Eldest REborn (which is actually significant, lost anyway).
I have 2 gorgers main, 2 SB so I have that. 2 brontodons main is just a hedge against enchantment based removal, Azcanta, 4/4 token maker.
As of now I am going to try again, try to get different match ups and try using "Find // Finality" against removal heavy decks, those that I faced previously, just to feel better about the deck.
Counter Burn isn't an aggro deck ? It was more like control decks with Ionize and, what else ?
I face a lot of aggro decks where it's just a race, and Izzet is part of the equation. Steam-Kin, Electrostatic Field, Risk Factor etc... Gorger gains life and shuts down Jump-Start spells mostly U and R decks play, that's why I mention it here. I play around Mission Briefing if I can as well, no matter whether the card is played.
Counter Burn isn't an aggro deck ? It was more like control decks with Ionize and, what else ?
I face a lot of aggro decks where it's just a race, and Izzet is part of the equation. Steam-Kin, Electrostatic Field, Risk Factor etc... Gorger gains life and shuts down Jump-Start spells mostly U and R decks play, that's why I mention it here. I play around Mission Briefing if I can as well, no matter whether the card is played.
In the SB, there are interesting cards like Make a Stand VS wraths that I initially completely forgot about.
The Izzet deck I faced was just counter burn, only had those X/4 fliers as creatures.
I like the list, dont understand Trostani, explain that to me. Like that 'make a stand' never saw it, never looking into white that deep yet, still in G/b.
Better night last night but played against lame decks, other than Selesnya tokens.
I ran better and Ferox is a house against Izzet deck. One OP had a creature based IZZET deck, was garbage, the other was on Goblin electromancer and crackling drake but Ferox pulled a lot of weight and you were right about gorger taking away their cards gaining indirect life or direct life off the creatures the counter and kill.
Feeling better about it but played this list.
Casting Doom Whisperer felt great everytime, district guide there to help get him there on schedule. Find//finality helps keep you casting spells and finality can wipe a tokens deck. Funny story, Grixis control player taps 2 mana to get rid of Ferox's hexproof, casts Discovery // Dispersal targeting it, then I discard Ferox back into play, he scooped on the punt, hilarious.
I like the list, dont understand Trostani, explain that to me. Like that 'make a stand' never saw it, never looking into white that deep yet, still in G/b.
Trostani is an option to beat the mirror. It gives a bit of lifegain and an anthem effect. So far I haven't got noticeable results with her. On the other hand Shalai, Voice of Plenty has been clutch. Flying helps me attack through stalled boards (mirror included, so she may just be the mirror breaker I'm looking for), and her pump effect eventually puts her out of Lava Coil range and lets her beat other red flyers.
Shalai is good if burn spells make an impact too (if Risk Factor becomes a thing).
Make a Stand is an anti-wrath card, simply put. I'm focusing on aggro and midrange MUs though, so I have no rep with that card. Assure // Assemble is maindeckable and may be just a better option.
Knight of Autumn has been surprisingly worse than Scavenger all along. The 3-power is good for Pelty, and dealing with the graveyard has come more often than dealing with enchantments. Time will tell.
Another thing I like with Kraul Harpooner is that I can kill a flyer, then it dies in the process and pumps Pelty. Try not to forget that interaction !
I like the list, dont understand Trostani, explain that to me. Like that 'make a stand' never saw it, never looking into white that deep yet, still in G/b.
Trostani is an option to beat the mirror. It gives a bit of lifegain and an anthem effect. So far I haven't got noticeable results with her. On the other hand Shalai, Voice of Plenty has been clutch. Flying helps me attack through stalled boards (mirror included, so she may just be the mirror breaker I'm looking for), and her pump effect eventually puts her out of Lava Coil range and lets her beat other red flyers.
Shalai is good if burn spells make an impact too (if Risk Factor becomes a thing).
Make a Stand is an anti-wrath card, simply put. I'm focusing on aggro and midrange MUs though, so I have no rep with that card. Assure // Assemble is maindeckable and may be just a better option.
Knight of Autumn has been surprisingly worse than Scavenger all along. The 3-power is good for Pelty, and dealing with the graveyard has come more often than dealing with enchantments. Time will tell.
Another thing I like with Kraul Harpooner is that I can kill a flyer, then it dies in the process and pumps Pelty. Try not to forget that interaction !
Dude, I am super pumped I found someone with very similar and intelligent ideas. I like that you're testing this all out and providing feedback, very useful! Excited too because in my quest to find a playset of Overgrown tombs I won an auction on EBAY for a playset of that and temple garden both from return to ravinca and an eye of ugin from masters, all for $54; retail is $84-ish so all I need is 2/3 sunpetal groves to flex into Selesnya if I wanted. Has Song of Freyalise still been worth the slot? I want to get more testing in on my own list before I experiment with that.
I feel like I'm the only guy who plays Song, but it's a card I've been loving even before the rotation. When I test the mirror, the first player to draw Song wins. If I compare the card to other options, there's, well, Trostani, Venerated Loxodon, in blue there's the insane Hadana's Climb (but needs to build around), and overall it's always expensive cards, while Song does the job for 2 mana.
I believe people play the card in GW Tokens too, but really, the card feels stronger when it gives trample to 7/7s rather than 2/2s... The fact that it's still castable with Ferox around is another selling point. Now if people prove me they win without evasion, I'll reconsider, but in my experience, Stompy loses because it's too easy to chump block (and then race back as a consequence). Finally 3 copies might not be the right number, maybe it's 2 or 4.
Edit : Assure // Assemble I really like. There's 2 sequences that work out nicely :
Harpooner + Assure to keep your Harpooner alive and make sure it has enough power to deal with the flyer;
Song Act III + Assemble before main phase (still act II) to create 3 3/3 Knights.
This list is technically an elves deck, but this is the list I run that just went 5-0 in Competitive Constructed, and it fits here. My last match was against Mono-Red, and it was super tense.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
@olly : your manabase can't support so much white though. You must play 4x Territory to strengthen your mana. That's a reason why I don't run Emmara or Autumn (besides the fact I believe Scavenger is better in the main).
@kysg : I believe a blue splash would love Hadana's Climb. I'm surprised you splash blue for early flyers and reactive spells, it's not what I expect from an aggro deck in the first place. Steel Leaf Champion is uncastable with your manabase, which makes it straight worse than other splashes. We probably have to wait for the next set to splash blue and be competitive.
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@olly : your manabase can't support so much white though. You must play 4x Territory to strengthen your mana. That's a reason why I don't run Emmara or Autumn (besides the fact I believe Scavenger is better in the main).
@kysg : I believe a blue splash would love Hadana's Climb. I'm surprised you splash blue for early flyers and reactive spells, it's not what I expect from an aggro deck in the first place. Steel Leaf Champion is uncastable with your manabase, which makes it straight worse than other splashes. We probably have to wait for the next set to splash blue and be competitive.
I have very high hopes for Hadana's Climb come Ravnica Allegiance and hopefully lots of counter synergy with Simic
Why would you need/want Negate on T2? IMO Mono Green splash blue only wants 8-9 blue sources. 4 Harbor + 4 eventual Breeding Pool + MAYBE 1 Island. It wants GGG on T2/T3 and then 1 U on Turns 4/5 for Negate or Spell Pierce to take care of Settle, Soot, and Cleansing Nova. Now, in a +1/+1 counters matter build you'll need that U a turn sooner because Clarion is more useful against you. And in that instance its probably better leaving SLC out of the 75
Why would you need/want Negate on T2? IMO Mono Green splash blue only wants 8-9 blue sources. 4 Harbor + 4 eventual Breeding Pool + MAYBE 1 Island. It wants GGG on T2/T3 and then 1 U on Turns 4/5 for Negate or Spell Pierce to take care of Settle, Soot, and Cleansing Nova. Now, in a +1/+1 counters matter build you'll need that U a turn sooner because Clarion is more useful against you. And in that instance its probably better leaving SLC out of the 75
Breeding pool isn't here yet...let it go man, let it go. They were exploratory builds...nothing more nothing less...
Matter of fact I will turn this over to you and let you build your 75 the way you need to build your 75.
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Breeding pool isn't here yet...let it go man, let it go. They were exploratory builds...nothing more nothing less...
Matter of fact I will turn this over to you and let you build your 75 the way you need to build your 75.
Condescending much? Yes, Breeding Pool isnt here yet....which means that for the next 3 months the likelihood U/G wont be a consistent enough deck to be viable is high because it doesnt have the necessary mana base to support it.....yet.
Condescending much? Yes, Breeding Pool isnt here yet....which means that for the next 3 months the likelihood U/G wont be a consistent enough deck to be viable is high because it doesnt have the necessary mana base to support it.....yet.
Maybe if your taking the deck to a GP or PTQ, which that deck would have never went to anyways...again, let it go....also as far as consistency of the simic decks is concerned...splitting hairs all across the board on that one...Also condescending...taking a huge stretch on that one. Again I will turn it over to you and let you build the 75 the way you gotta build it.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Maybe if your taking the deck to a GP or PTQ, which that deck would have never went to anyways...again, let it go....also as far as consistency is concerned...splitting hairs all across the board on that one...Also condescending...taking a huge stretch on that one. Again I will turn it over to you and let you build the 75 the way you gotta build it.
No idea what any of this is supposed to mean so I'll move on. Doesnt seem like you have any interest in useful dialogue anyway
Ideally you need 22 green sources for Steel Leaf Champion, if you count Llanowar Elves as half a source, that means really you need at least 20 green producing lands.
agree to disagree, that is assuming that it comes out T3 which if you ramp you need more lands to get it to come out on T2. In any case, I'm not a firm believer that you have to have that many lands to support a triple source. I also don't believe 1 mana source should backbreak a deck. Again, he stated those were guidelines and not hardline. But hey I'm going to move on. None of this is really helpful.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
I'll agree to disagree. Is Steel Leaf Champion uncastable in this deck? No. it is very castable.
On turn 5, yes...
Does it force a T1 Llanowar Elves or Forest Yes. The Frank Karsten article does say go with 22 sources to get steel leaf out on T3, but he also states these should be used as guidelines. Imo, 19-20 should be the minimum to get steel leaf champion to come out on turn 3 especially if the deck is weighted more in green.
The idea is that Champ is the best thing the deck can do on turn 2 (thanks to Llanowar), so the manabase is built around that card to begin with. So in this case, it's not a "guideline" you can cross back and forth so easily.
6 Islands means that both Llanowar Elves and Steal Leaf Champion won't be castable on curve, because many of your opening hands will have 1, 2 or even 3 Islands, and possibly a tapped Woodland Stream. For some reason, you took into account Champ but not the mana dork, which will suffer much of those 5-6 Islands and 2 Streams on turn 1...
Now I'm telling you, the manabase you proposed doesn't work. You need Breeding Pool and not play over 2 Islands.
Another point, Llanowar Elves + Siren Stormtamer with a fetchless manabase is not happening. Especially in a format where you have nountappeddual land on turn 1.
Sorry to stress it so much, but I thought my first post would've helped you figure it out already.
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I'll agree to disagree. Is Steel Leaf Champion uncastable in this deck? No. it is very castable.
On turn 5, yes...
Does it force a T1 Llanowar Elves or Forest Yes. The Frank Karsten article does say go with 22 sources to get steel leaf out on T3, but he also states these should be used as guidelines. Imo, 19-20 should be the minimum to get steel leaf champion to come out on turn 3 especially if the deck is weighted more in green.
The idea is that Champ is the best thing the deck can do on turn 2 (thanks to Llanowar), so the manabase is built around that card to begin with. So in this case, it's not a "guideline" you can cross back and forth so easily.
6 Islands means that both Llanowar Elves and Steal Leaf Champion won't be castable on curve, because many of your opening hands will have 1, 2 or even 3 Islands, and possibly a tapped Woodland Stream. For some reason, you took into account Champ but not the mana dork, which will suffer much of those 5-6 Islands and 2 Streams on turn 1...
Now I'm telling you, the manabase you proposed doesn't work. You need Breeding Pool and not play over 2 Islands.
Another point, Llanowar Elves + Siren Stormtamer with a fetchless manabase is not happening. Especially in a format where you have nountappeddual land on turn 1.
Sorry to stress it so much, but I thought my first post would've helped you figure it out already.
This doesn't help at all. It also doesn't add anything. So gonna just move on from it. Also would appreciate it if you moved on from it as well.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
lost like 4 matches in a row to:
Izzet counter burn, Twice
Sultai control
Goblins
with this list
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Pelt Collector
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
2 Thorn Lieutenant - cards 59 and 60, additional 2 drops. Untamed Kavu?
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Nullhide Ferox
1 Vine Mare
3 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
3 Assassin's Trophy
Lands - 23
14 forest
1 Swamp - against other trophies, ruins, etc.
4 woodland cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Carnage Tyrant - control
2 Status // Statue - fliers?
2 Vine Mare - black decks
2 Vivien Reid - control, fliers
2 Deathgorge Scavenger - graveyard, lifegain
1 Sentinel Totem - grave decks
2 Sorcerous Spyglass - PWs, ?
1 Assassin's Trophy - catch all
3 Find // Finality - return creatures
Somethings I learned, (unless XMAGE is wrong) Harpooner will not trigger Collector EtB if pelt has 2 counters and there are creatures in the grave. I thought that you could stack the triggers to get the +X/0 for the harpooner then the Collector checks and a counter is received. Same with Branchwalker or Jadelight Ranger, I thought you could resolve exploring then if power is great Collector get his.
The decks I played against, except for Goblins~they just went "wide", had a lot of removal and counters so my early stuff was negated but everything died to normal removal so missing vehicles, Rhonas and blossom showed up. As a result Ghalta is less attractive, definitely going down to 2 if any at all.
In fact I was so shell shocked at the poor performance I doubt the deck has legs right now. Granted its a VERY small testing phase but it felt terrible since I am all in and so pumped about it.
I am thinking Carnage Tyrant would just be better as a 3 of.
Anyone else having better luck?
current list
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Pelt Collector
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Thorn Lieutenant
2 Merfolk Branchwalker- cards 59 and 60, additional 2 drops. Untamed Kavu?
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Nullhide Ferox
1 Vine Mare
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
3 Assassin's Trophy
Lands - 23
14 forest
1 Swamp - against other trophies, ruins, etc.
4 woodland cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Vine Mare - black decks
3 Find // Finality - return creatures, removal heavy decks
1 Carnage Tyrant - control
2 Vivien Reid - control, fliers
2 Thrashing Brontodon - arts and enchants
1 Assassin's Trophy - catch all
2 Deathgorge Scavenger - graveyard, lifegain
1 Sentinel Totem - grave decks
1 Sorcerous Spyglass - PWs, ?
Thinking: +2 District Guide (ensure black for Doom Whisperer), -2 Brontodon
+2 Doom Whisperer, -1 Ghalta, -1 Tyrant (to the SB)
SB:
+1 Tyrant, -1 Sorcerous Spyglass?
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I also defend cards like Song of Freyalise that gives the team trample, because it's very easy to chumpblock most of the green creatures. The lack of evasion is one huge flaw. We also lose races to big flyers that we can't block. Another option is to play more removal. The SB configurations are wide in GB. But there's also the question of whether black is the right splash. In white, we can gain a ton of life and have a decent removal suite. Some creature are also pretty good.
"You had 3 aggro decks in front of you." What do mean?
I didnt play against any aggro decks and thought Gorger could pump Pelt on 2 counters but it cant (unless XMAGE is wrong). Gorger didnt really do anything against any deck except eat my own Carnage tyrant so he couldnt take it with Eldest REborn (which is actually significant, lost anyway).
I have 2 gorgers main, 2 SB so I have that. 2 brontodons main is just a hedge against enchantment based removal, Azcanta, 4/4 token maker.
As of now I am going to try again, try to get different match ups and try using "Find // Finality" against removal heavy decks, those that I faced previously, just to feel better about the deck.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I face a lot of aggro decks where it's just a race, and Izzet is part of the equation. Steam-Kin, Electrostatic Field, Risk Factor etc... Gorger gains life and shuts down Jump-Start spells mostly U and R decks play, that's why I mention it here. I play around Mission Briefing if I can as well, no matter whether the card is played.
This is the kind of white list I'm testing :
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Kraul Harpooner
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Nullhide Ferox
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Trostani Discordant
3 Song of Freyalise
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Plains
10 Forest
In the SB, there are interesting cards like Make a Stand VS wraths that I initially completely forgot about.
The Izzet deck I faced was just counter burn, only had those X/4 fliers as creatures.
I like the list, dont understand Trostani, explain that to me. Like that 'make a stand' never saw it, never looking into white that deep yet, still in G/b.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I ran better and Ferox is a house against Izzet deck. One OP had a creature based IZZET deck, was garbage, the other was on Goblin electromancer and crackling drake but Ferox pulled a lot of weight and you were right about gorger taking away their cards gaining indirect life or direct life off the creatures the counter and kill.
Feeling better about it but played this list.
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Pelt Collector
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Thorn Lieutenant
2 Merfolk Branchwalker- cards 59 and 60, additional 2 drops. Untamed Kavu?
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 District Guide
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Nullhide Ferox
2 Doom Whisperer
2 Carnage Tyrant
3 Assassin's Trophy
Lands - 23
14 forest
1 Swamp - against other trophies, ruins, etc.
4 woodland cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Vine Mare - black decks
3 Find // Finality - return creatures, removal heavy decks
1 Carnage Tyrant - control
2 Vivien Reid - control, fliers
2 Thrashing Brontodon - arts and enchants
1 Assassin's Trophy - catch all
2 Deathgorge Scavenger - graveyard, lifegain
1 Sentinel Totem - grave decks
Casting Doom Whisperer felt great everytime, district guide there to help get him there on schedule. Find//finality helps keep you casting spells and finality can wipe a tokens deck. Funny story, Grixis control player taps 2 mana to get rid of Ferox's hexproof, casts Discovery // Dispersal targeting it, then I discard Ferox back into play, he scooped on the punt, hilarious.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
WiJ
Peasant 540 Cube
Trostani is an option to beat the mirror. It gives a bit of lifegain and an anthem effect. So far I haven't got noticeable results with her. On the other hand Shalai, Voice of Plenty has been clutch. Flying helps me attack through stalled boards (mirror included, so she may just be the mirror breaker I'm looking for), and her pump effect eventually puts her out of Lava Coil range and lets her beat other red flyers.
Shalai is good if burn spells make an impact too (if Risk Factor becomes a thing).
Make a Stand is an anti-wrath card, simply put. I'm focusing on aggro and midrange MUs though, so I have no rep with that card. Assure // Assemble is maindeckable and may be just a better option.
I'm playing that list right now :
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Nullhide Ferox
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Assure//Assemble
3 Song of Freyalise
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Plains
10 Forest
Knight of Autumn has been surprisingly worse than Scavenger all along. The 3-power is good for Pelty, and dealing with the graveyard has come more often than dealing with enchantments. Time will tell.
Another thing I like with Kraul Harpooner is that I can kill a flyer, then it dies in the process and pumps Pelty. Try not to forget that interaction !
Vivien Reid is a flex slot so far.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Dude, I am super pumped I found someone with very similar and intelligent ideas. I like that you're testing this all out and providing feedback, very useful! Excited too because in my quest to find a playset of Overgrown tombs I won an auction on EBAY for a playset of that and temple garden both from return to ravinca and an eye of ugin from masters, all for $54; retail is $84-ish so all I need is 2/3 sunpetal groves to flex into Selesnya if I wanted. Has Song of Freyalise still been worth the slot? I want to get more testing in on my own list before I experiment with that.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I believe people play the card in GW Tokens too, but really, the card feels stronger when it gives trample to 7/7s rather than 2/2s... The fact that it's still castable with Ferox around is another selling point. Now if people prove me they win without evasion, I'll reconsider, but in my experience, Stompy loses because it's too easy to chump block (and then race back as a consequence). Finally 3 copies might not be the right number, maybe it's 2 or 4.
Edit : Assure // Assemble I really like. There's 2 sequences that work out nicely :
Harpooner + Assure to keep your Harpooner alive and make sure it has enough power to deal with the flyer;
Song Act III + Assemble before main phase (still act II) to create 3 3/3 Knights.
12 Forest (RIX) 196
4 Pelt Collector (GRN) 141
2 Druid of the Cowl (M19) 177
4 Elvish Clancaller (M19) 179
4 Steel Leaf Champion (DAR) 182
2 Beast Whisperer (GRN) 123
3 Vivien Reid (M19) 208
3 Marwyn, the Nurturer (DAR) 172
4 Thorn Lieutenant (M19) 203
3 Shapers' Sanctuary (XLN) 206
4 Vanquisher's Banner (XLN) 251
3 Rabid Bite (M19) 195
4 Temple Garden (GRN) 258
4 Sunpetal Grove (XLN) 257
3 Join Shields (GRN) 181
3 Sorcerous Spyglass (XLN) 248
3 Sentinel Totem (XLN) 245
4 Knight of Autumn (GRN) 183
This list is technically an elves deck, but this is the list I run that just went 5-0 in Competitive Constructed, and it fits here. My last match was against Mono-Red, and it was super tense.
Some people might not be sold on this one but wanted to explore it.
6 Island
12 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Woodland Stream
Creatures (29)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Thrashing Brontodon
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Vine Mare
3 Nightveil Sprite
3 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
4 Dive Down
3 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Nezahal, Primal Tide
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Vivien Reid
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Warkite Marauder
-Stay Frosty
@kysg : I believe a blue splash would love Hadana's Climb. I'm surprised you splash blue for early flyers and reactive spells, it's not what I expect from an aggro deck in the first place. Steel Leaf Champion is uncastable with your manabase, which makes it straight worse than other splashes. We probably have to wait for the next set to splash blue and be competitive.
I have very high hopes for Hadana's Climb come Ravnica Allegiance and hopefully lots of counter synergy with Simic
Breeding pool isn't here yet...let it go man, let it go. They were exploratory builds...nothing more nothing less...
Matter of fact I will turn this over to you and let you build your 75 the way you need to build your 75.
-Stay Frosty
Maybe if your taking the deck to a GP or PTQ, which that deck would have never went to anyways...again, let it go....also as far as consistency of the simic decks is concerned...splitting hairs all across the board on that one...Also condescending...taking a huge stretch on that one. Again I will turn it over to you and let you build the 75 the way you gotta build it.
-Stay Frosty
Agreed. Ive already taken mine out. Green has better options now imo
No idea what any of this is supposed to mean so I'll move on. Doesnt seem like you have any interest in useful dialogue anyway
ey you do you man. You do you. Granted, as far as useful dialogue you didn't really offer up any either...
agree to disagree, that is assuming that it comes out T3 which if you ramp you need more lands to get it to come out on T2. In any case, I'm not a firm believer that you have to have that many lands to support a triple source. I also don't believe 1 mana source should backbreak a deck. Again, he stated those were guidelines and not hardline. But hey I'm going to move on. None of this is really helpful.
-Stay Frosty
Thanks,
Lugger
On turn 5, yes...
The idea is that Champ is the best thing the deck can do on turn 2 (thanks to Llanowar), so the manabase is built around that card to begin with. So in this case, it's not a "guideline" you can cross back and forth so easily.
6 Islands means that both Llanowar Elves and Steal Leaf Champion won't be castable on curve, because many of your opening hands will have 1, 2 or even 3 Islands, and possibly a tapped Woodland Stream. For some reason, you took into account Champ but not the mana dork, which will suffer much of those 5-6 Islands and 2 Streams on turn 1...
Now I'm telling you, the manabase you proposed doesn't work. You need Breeding Pool and not play over 2 Islands.
Another point, Llanowar Elves + Siren Stormtamer with a fetchless manabase is not happening. Especially in a format where you have no untapped dual land on turn 1.
Sorry to stress it so much, but I thought my first post would've helped you figure it out already.
This doesn't help at all. It also doesn't add anything. So gonna just move on from it. Also would appreciate it if you moved on from it as well.
-Stay Frosty
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/results/format/1/start_date/07-10-2018/end_date/07-10-2018/city/Columbus/state/OH/w_perc/0/g_perc/0/r_perc/0/b_perc/0/u_perc/0/a_perc/0/order_1/finish/limit/25/start_num/0/
2 lists here:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/standard-ptq-11633824#paper
should give Ghalta another shot.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91