Something like this. From what I've seen, Karn is always incredible in this deck when people side him in. Playing one 3rd turn off a Statuary doesn't seem like much of a stretch or remotely fair.
I haven't played this deck in forever, but I saw Gabriel Nassif streaming with it and then I started watching DiabloXSC. I was excited when I saw you two in a mirror Tiemuu. I've picked up most of the things needed to update from my old version and plan to jam it in paper tomorrow. What do you think of a version that focuses more on Karn, Tezzeret, Antiquities War in the main?
I actually streamed the match myself too, g1 was pretty cool from my perspective.
Marc tried out Karn in the MD but switched back. I've never been too impressed with Karn outside of the UW MU and don't see it being good in the MD. The huge construct tokens are impressive, but my intuition tells me the game usually won't come down to that and the game is already won or lost based on other factors. That's just me though.
Yeah, I went ahead and followed you and watched your last vid for an hour. I'll probably start out with your list for now if I can find a 4th Sai. One thing I don't want to do is struggle with missing land drops and 20 is the number I was running before.
I stopped playing the deck because of steel leaf. Mono green is unwinnable. T1 elf into t2 steel leaf is gg. Too bad because the deck is fun. But too slow.
Also, has anyone considered adding some copies of Efficent Construction as Sai 5+? A Sai that can't be hit with removal seems feasible, and it's a four drop so it can be cast off Baral's Expertise.
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Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
Also, has anyone considered adding some copies of Efficent Construction as Sai 5+? A Sai that can't be hit with removal seems feasible, and it's a four drop so it can be cast off Baral's Expertise.
Aether Meltdown is better than these since it can be played proactively and doesn't allow the opponent to hir for 5. Even that plan has its problems though. I'm currently trying out all kinds of things, but there are no quick fixes.
Efficient Construction is a sideboard card at best. It's quite decent against UB and Grixis, but I doubt it would bring anything important to the table as we already have Sai. I'd rather dedicate every possible SB slot to beating Stompy.
EDIT: Daan Pruijt won the Dutch nationals piloting Reservoir Storm.
Also, has anyone considered adding some copies of Efficent Construction as Sai 5+? A Sai that can't be hit with removal seems feasible, and it's a four drop so it can be cast off Baral's Expertise.
Aether Meltdown is better than these since it can be played proactively and doesn't allow the opponent to hir for 5. Even that plan has its problems though. I'm currently trying out all kinds of things, but there are no quick fixes.
Efficient Construction is a sideboard card at best. It's quite decent against UB and Grixis, but I doubt it would bring anything important to the table as we already have Sai. I'd rather dedicate every possible SB slot to beating Stompy.
EDIT: Daan Pruijt won the Dutch nationals piloting Reservoir Storm.
I have to disagree with your analysis of Efficient Construction, every time I draw it I like it, having the additional Sai type effect to increase consistency has been good. Of course, my list is different from others I have seen, which may be the reason. I am still not totally sure of the board, but here is my list.
Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
Has anyone tried a red splash? The mana is basically free with sulfur falls, spirebluff, plus possibly spite of industry. Ntm prism in a pinch.
Could gain access to hour of devastation or spray, sweltering suns, abrade etc
Not that control is a major issue but also having banefire in the board with statuary seems like fun.
The splash would be anything but free. With such a low land count it's common we're going to keep hands with one land, map and prism, especially when on a mulligan or if the land is a Void. Running the risk of having lands ETB tapped is a very steep price as well.
I honestly don't know how I like Unsummon just yet. It has performed decent in the games I drew it, but it does make you more prone to flooding out. My plan is in particular to combine Padeem and Unsummon in the MU against Stompy. If I only draw one and not the other it might get awkward.
This is my current crazy list. I like the efficient construction as a 5th sai to make sure we have it more often then not. It is also much better then sai #2. Not married to it yet.
I’m currently switching back and forth between exclusion mage and breakdown for more anti aggro in the board. Mage leaves a blocker behind and you can bounce it for extra tricks.
I was trying out the Salvager of Secrets as a way to loop with Outcomes and Expertise. It was good in one game, but not needed. It's also very slow.
I beat Mono Green, largely on the back of bounce spells and Zahid. He started agressively targeting my artifacts and I didn't care because a 5/6 flyer was beating him down. We might consider this guy as part of a transformation package with Karn. The clock becomes fast, it blocks Steel-Leaf Champion, and our Expertise can turn into tempo cards. Also, you can improvise his alternate casting cost.
Essence Scatter was also great in multiple matchups. Why haven't we been playing this card?
I'm playing the SCG Open and Classic (if I don't Day 2) this weekend. This would likely be my Classic list:
Zahid sounds like it could have potential, but I can't see it being totally lights out. Steel Leaf + Defense beats it in combat, Reid's -3 kills it, and Ghalta still overpowers it.
I've tried 4 Karn main cutting Metalspinner and rebuke and it's been great so far. The only problem I've had so far has been Zombies killing me before I got a 4th turn. I think that's just them having lucky draws though.
Has anyone tried a red splash? The mana is basically free with sulfur falls, spirebluff, plus possibly spite of industry. Ntm prism in a pinch.
Could gain access to hour of devastation or spray, sweltering suns, abrade etc
Not that control is a major issue but also having banefire in the board with statuary seems like fun.
I definitely toyed with adding red after the multiple loss to steel leaf. The problem is that none of those cards help in the matchup because the spells deal 3 damage and you need 4 (at 2 mana). Black is actually more suitable for this purpose as you get push and cast down, which are super efficient for us. However, if you're splashing black, you might as well take the deck into the UB territory and change the make up and play the 5/5 too. I think in theory adding red sounds cool, but in practice i don't think it's correct.
Daan added something quite interesting to his SB list, however. And that's exclusion mage, which is actually not bad since it can bounce the steel leaf and also chomp a rhonas. But otherwise, I feel like it's likely that he dodged a lot of MGA. I've seen some lists play Time of Ice in the board too. Which is not the worst.
@bobmtg: Essence scatter is fine on the play but awful on the draw. What the deck needs is a way to answer a T2 champion on both the draw and the play.
Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
Splash white mana is rough. To consistently have white turn 2 you need about 13 sources. We want sources that do not etb tapped.
The only viable splash imo is red because the mana can more often then not etb un tapped and we can have up to 12 sources without compromising access to blue. We lose the scry land though.
I played reservoir a lot in kaladesh standard, seeing Sai made me excited to jump back in.
I tried a list with 3 Metalwork Colossus and 1 One with the Machine in the main. It’s pretty easy to cast colossus for free, and I was able to gain infinite life with free colossi and Sai in play, sacrificing a colossus and token to get a colossus from the yard.
What seems to be a good number of Commit//Memory in the main/side? I ran 1 main 1 side today and it didn’t feel super great when I had it in hand.
You had reservoir out to make that loop infinite life right? Edit: I see you mentiond a colossus in the yard.
My problem with the colossus style is that we don’t need infinite life, just 50 which requires playing as many spells in a turn yes, but not necessarily an infinite amount.
This for me means colossus needs to be more consistent then a traditional build or bring more to the table outside the loop.
So my question is how good is it when your not going infinite? I could see it being very nice vs MGA if you can get it on the board fast.
How are your aggro matches in general? What turn do you usually get to cast it?
so funny story....played against a UW version of this at my LGS Showdown today (ive played the mono U version before.....fun deck). I was on RG Sarkhan Stompy. At one point I had 2x Gigantosaur, 1x Ghalta, 1x Carnage Tyrant, 1x Regisaur Alpha, & 1x Steel Leaf Champion on the board as well as an Unsealing....and I lost. After the game I calculated that I had done ~ 135 dmg to my opponent over the course of that one game
Right, so outside of the loop, Colossus is another free creature for comboing off, blocks better than pretty much everything else, and can win through combat when backed up by expertise. I could definitely use more testing, but right now I like it.
As for aggro matchups, that's another part I need to test more. I board in settle the wreckage and abrade right now, but I'm still working on that.
So part of my concern is that Metalwork incentivizes not playing 0cmc artifacts to be able to cast it for free quickly, it also doesn't like when you sacrifice your onboard artifacts like renegade map early.
I've got it on my list to test but it feels like you don't really want the full storm package with metalwork to me.
Let us know how it goes though.
Also what is your splash white mana base? I'm very interested in having access to settle but when I was looking at it the mana seem very sketchy to reliably have double white quickly even with prisms.
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4 Zhalfrin Void
1 Inventor's Fair
3 Mox Amber
4 Ornithopter
4 Renegade Map
4 Prophetic Prism
1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
4 Inspiring Statuary
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Metallic Rebuke
4 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Commit/Memory
3 Baral's Expertise
2 Sorcerer's Spyglass
1 Metallic Rebuke
3 Aether Meltdown
3 Negate
1 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
2 Sentinel Totem
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
2 Glint-Nest Crane
Modern: UW Spirits
I actually streamed the match myself too, g1 was pretty cool from my perspective.
Marc tried out Karn in the MD but switched back. I've never been too impressed with Karn outside of the UW MU and don't see it being good in the MD. The huge construct tokens are impressive, but my intuition tells me the game usually won't come down to that and the game is already won or lost based on other factors. That's just me though.
Youtube Channel
Modern: UW Spirits
I started to record my wins and losses again. I'm currently in the middle of process of trying to crack the nut that is Steel Leaf Stompy.
Youtube Channel
Also, has anyone considered adding some copies of Efficent Construction as Sai 5+? A Sai that can't be hit with removal seems feasible, and it's a four drop so it can be cast off Baral's Expertise.
Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
Aether Meltdown is better than these since it can be played proactively and doesn't allow the opponent to hir for 5. Even that plan has its problems though. I'm currently trying out all kinds of things, but there are no quick fixes.
Efficient Construction is a sideboard card at best. It's quite decent against UB and Grixis, but I doubt it would bring anything important to the table as we already have Sai. I'd rather dedicate every possible SB slot to beating Stompy.
EDIT: Daan Pruijt won the Dutch nationals piloting Reservoir Storm.
Youtube Channel
My win % against mga is way up but still not 50/50. But I’m playing vs my buddy who knows how to play vs me and prob has more board options then most.
Post board I bring in 3 rivers rebuke and it’s still a rough match. Basically if I get sai and Karn timely I can win, otherwise it’s not very good.
I’m seriously close to a red splash for removal over rebuke and side board options. The manabase can support it.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1212160#paper
Has anyone tried a red splash? The mana is basically free with sulfur falls, spirebluff, plus possibly spite of industry. Ntm prism in a pinch.
Could gain access to hour of devastation or spray, sweltering suns, abrade etc
Not that control is a major issue but also having banefire in the board with statuary seems like fun.
I have to disagree with your analysis of Efficient Construction, every time I draw it I like it, having the additional Sai type effect to increase consistency has been good. Of course, my list is different from others I have seen, which may be the reason. I am still not totally sure of the board, but here is my list.
4 Ornithopter
2 Commit // Memory
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Baral's Expertise
2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Mox Amber
4 Inspiring Statuary
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Renegade Map
2 Traveler's Amulet
2 Efficient Construction
2 The Anitiquities War
12 Island
1 Arch of Orazca
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Zhalfirin Void
2 Baral, Chief of Compliance
4 Negate
2 Padeem Consul of Innovation
2 Silent Gravestone
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 River's Rebuke
Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
The splash would be anything but free. With such a low land count it's common we're going to keep hands with one land, map and prism, especially when on a mulligan or if the land is a Void. Running the risk of having lands ETB tapped is a very steep price as well.
EDIT: finally won my trophy!
Youtube Channel
I did see the SCG philly list running time of ice , I want to test it out but it seems slow.
Youtube Channel
I’m currently switching back and forth between exclusion mage and breakdown for more anti aggro in the board. Mage leaves a blocker behind and you can bounce it for extra tricks.
Artifacts matter/storm
Creatures - 8
4 ornithopter
4 sai, master thopterist
Planeswalkers - 3
3 Karn, scion of urza
Enchantment - 1
1 efficient construction
Spells - 10
4 paradoxical outcome
4 baral’s expertise
2 commit//memory
Artifacts - 20
3 Mox amber
4 renegade map
4 prophetic prism
2 metalspinner’s puzzleknot
4 inspiring statuary
3 aetherflux reservoir
Lands - 18
1 inventors’ fair
4 zhalfirin void
13 island
Sideboard - 15
2 silent gravestone
2 sorcerous spyglass
1 Karn, scion of urza
3 negate
3 aetherflux meltdown
2 rivers rebuke
2 the antiquities war
12 Island
1 Drowned Catacombs
4 Zhalfirin Void
1 Inventor's Fair
Creatures
4 Ornithopter
4 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Salvager of Secrets
Spells
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Baral's Expertise
2 Committ/Memory
2 Metallic Rebuke
2 Blink of an Eye
3 Mox Amber
4 Renegade Map
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Inspiring Statuary
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
2 Essence Scatter
4 Negate
2 Exclusion Mage
3 Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Committ/Memory
1 River's Rebuke
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
I was trying out the Salvager of Secrets as a way to loop with Outcomes and Expertise. It was good in one game, but not needed. It's also very slow.
I beat Mono Green, largely on the back of bounce spells and Zahid. He started agressively targeting my artifacts and I didn't care because a 5/6 flyer was beating him down. We might consider this guy as part of a transformation package with Karn. The clock becomes fast, it blocks Steel-Leaf Champion, and our Expertise can turn into tempo cards. Also, you can improvise his alternate casting cost.
Essence Scatter was also great in multiple matchups. Why haven't we been playing this card?
I'm playing the SCG Open and Classic (if I don't Day 2) this weekend. This would likely be my Classic list:
12 Island
1 Drowned Catacombs
4 Zhalfirin Void
1 Inventor's Fair
Creatures (8)
4 Ornithopter
4 Sai, Master Thopterist
Spells (14)
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Baral's Expertise
2 Committ/Memory
2 Metallic Rebuke
3 Blink of an Eye
3 Mox Amber
4 Renegade Map
4 Prophetic Prism
4 Inspiring Statuary
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
3 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
1 Jace's Defeat
2 Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Committ/Memory
2 Graveyard hate artifact
Youtube Channel
Modern: UW Spirits
I definitely toyed with adding red after the multiple loss to steel leaf. The problem is that none of those cards help in the matchup because the spells deal 3 damage and you need 4 (at 2 mana). Black is actually more suitable for this purpose as you get push and cast down, which are super efficient for us. However, if you're splashing black, you might as well take the deck into the UB territory and change the make up and play the 5/5 too. I think in theory adding red sounds cool, but in practice i don't think it's correct.
Daan added something quite interesting to his SB list, however. And that's exclusion mage, which is actually not bad since it can bounce the steel leaf and also chomp a rhonas. But otherwise, I feel like it's likely that he dodged a lot of MGA. I've seen some lists play Time of Ice in the board too. Which is not the worst.
@bobmtg: Essence scatter is fine on the play but awful on the draw. What the deck needs is a way to answer a T2 champion on both the draw and the play.
Previously on this site my screen name was simply spellsyphon, but because they went to twitch and I haven't posted in some time I had to change it to Spellsyphon1234.
I took a break from this game sometime ago but recently got back in, however; my play history dates back to 1996 when I first started playing with the Revised set and ran decks such as Stasis and Mono-Blue Control with Winter Orb, Steel Goelm, and Grindstone and a slew of counters. I quit in 2001, when Invasion was released, but picked it back up for Mirrodin-Kamagawa Standard. During that time I played Mono-Blue Shackles, and continued on with Kamigawa-Ravnica Standard, running with Flores Blue. In March 2010 I took 13th place at the SCG Legacy Open in Orlando, FL with Mono-Blue Prison. There is a video of my first loss at that tournament somewhere, but I have lost track of it. Currently I play exclusively online but, Mono-Blue Control and counter magic is in my blood, and I will always have it to play, regardless or how 'good' or 'bad' it is.
MTGO Screen Name: spellsyphon
Hit me up and we can play or chat.
The only viable splash imo is red because the mana can more often then not etb un tapped and we can have up to 12 sources without compromising access to blue. We lose the scry land though.
I tried a list with 3 Metalwork Colossus and 1 One with the Machine in the main. It’s pretty easy to cast colossus for free, and I was able to gain infinite life with free colossi and Sai in play, sacrificing a colossus and token to get a colossus from the yard.
What seems to be a good number of Commit//Memory in the main/side? I ran 1 main 1 side today and it didn’t feel super great when I had it in hand.
My problem with the colossus style is that we don’t need infinite life, just 50 which requires playing as many spells in a turn yes, but not necessarily an infinite amount.
This for me means colossus needs to be more consistent then a traditional build or bring more to the table outside the loop.
So my question is how good is it when your not going infinite? I could see it being very nice vs MGA if you can get it on the board fast.
How are your aggro matches in general? What turn do you usually get to cast it?
As for aggro matchups, that's another part I need to test more. I board in settle the wreckage and abrade right now, but I'm still working on that.
I've got it on my list to test but it feels like you don't really want the full storm package with metalwork to me.
Let us know how it goes though.
Also what is your splash white mana base? I'm very interested in having access to settle but when I was looking at it the mana seem very sketchy to reliably have double white quickly even with prisms.