I've also replaced Settle the Wreckage with Sweltering Suns which can stabilize the board earlier (or cycled when unnecessary) and not ramp the opponent.
I'm also experimenting with Shefet Monitor over New Horizons as a ramp spell that cycles and can be another threat you can cast or put in play with Aid.
In the SB I think that Gideon's Intervention is a much better option for the deck than Lost Legacy and being a permanent also works with Aid.
The deck's ramp is built around permanents to support Aid from the Cowl (which works much better with Trove and Map),
also it doesn't run that many deserts (I run even less) to consistently get the zombies.
I understand it was posted by a mod and maybe that has some play in it, but my question is--how does this end up in the Established forum? Outside the fact that SaffronOlive created it, what history does it have to make it established in any way?
It's a Gift of Paradise deck. I'll just rename this thread "Gift of Paradise Decks". It's sort of similar to Metalwork Colossus decks from last standard -- builds can go all over the place.
That Jund version looks very incoherent imho (too many random 1x-ofs), I like the Aid version much better though it is softer to fast aggro decks without more early game removal.
I like Torment but the rest of the win-cons don't seem particulary great and can just get shutdown by Negate and be left with 3x creatures
(not counting the 2x ramp guys).
Also not playing Treasure Map is wrong imho as it is a very efficiet ramp spell which also helps with filtering and draws cards later if necessary.
The plan is to ramp and stabilize the board with wraths to take over the game with big haymakers. Burning Sun's Avatar was chosen as it does something even if it gets removed immediately, other options can probably be Carnage Tyrant and Walking Ballista. Nissa can clock pretty quickly with 5/5 hasty lands, ult' to draw cards and in the late game it can bring back removed dinosaurs or Bolas.
Built a deck from scratch on cockatrice to beat up on Red and UBx decks because I was sick of playing the Mono red deck in preparation for the PPTQ season (first time back in Standard in years)
I’ve been playing it and tuning it with the reddit /r/spikes crowd for a couple weeks, and I took it to a pptq last weekend to take down 3rd. Didn’t drop a single game until the semis, finally had bad enough luck to lose to Grixis 1-2 (their deck is exceptionally easy to beat for mine).
The deck is a blast to play, and an absolute puzzle to pilot correctly. In my first half-dozen or so competitive leagues, I had a total record of 16-12. Had some real bad leagues, had some real good leagues. Made a lot of mistakes at first, as I was learning both the standard meta AND my deck, at the same time.
When I finally took it to the PPTQ, I was pretty confident in my list. I had last-minute swapped out a MB Glorybringer for the Convergence and the 3rd Phoenix for the SB Convergence, and it paid off immensely; few decks can answer that card efficiently.
In my testing, my plan post-board still doesn’t feel that strong; Nissa overperforms, Chandra always feels mediocre, Glorybringer and Phoenix are great if they decided to shave removal otherwise meh, Sweltering Suns comes in a lot so I’ve considered just cutting 2 Abrades and 1 Hour of Dev to be playing 3 Sweltering MB... a handful of weak points.
I haven’t found any deck other than Approach that has a stronger late game than me. Scarab God is pretty mediocre when you just lock down the board until you cast Hour of Devastation with a carnage tyrant in play. Compass flipped makes them overcommit to the board, then you blow it all up. Sure they have counters, but you’re playing a very threat-dense deck after 5 mana.
Hour of promise is also both virtual and actual card advantage. A 4-for-1 card, grabbing 2 evolving wilds to thin out the remaining basics during your next upkeep means you’ll have 4 fewer lands to draw into vs last turn. Plus 4 power over two bodies... and you’ll be feeding 2 Hostile desert activations, which is my next point.
Hostile desert is the only actual manland in Standard. This is one of the few decks that can reliably play it. Evolving wilds, cathartic reunion, pirates pillage, 9 cycling lands — you never have an issue activating this guy. If I had more room for basics, I would play the 4th evolving wild to make the t3 Hostile Desert -> block happen more often. The fact that mono red casting on-curve creatures can’t beat a 3/4 blocker on T3, that isn’t a creature until after exert would trigger, is just bonkers.
T1/2 evolving wilds -> t3 you have an active hostile desert
T2 cathartic reunion pitching a land, t3 you have an active hostile desert
T2 cycle a land, t3 you have an active hostile desert
Those are all easy scenarios to hit. Turning 13 of our lands into utility (9 cycle, 4 lands) gives us a ton of virtual advantage over most decks. Don’t forget, if you have 6 mana untapped and your opponent attacks with something a Hostile Desert can favorably interact with, you can cycle Shefet to put one in play untapped and ambush an attacker! It also ambushes a t4 Chandra on an empty board, which is also relevant.
The other big advantage we have is the ability to play 4 carnage tyrant MB. Most decks can’t beat this guy G1. Because we play 4 cathartic reunion + 1 pirates pillage (2nd one was cut for Chandra, more flexible ramp), the risk of a clogged hand is mitigated a ton. The amount of times I’ve t2 ditched a carnage tyrant and an hour of X to cathartic reunion is unreal... that’s why we play the cards though! Speaking of cathartic reunion...
The biggest problems ramp decks face are two-fold: you draw the wrong half of your deck, and ramp all the way up to nothing, or you hit land drops every turn and hope you can cast one of the 12 payoff cards you’re playing before you lose. Typically, ramp decks want to consistently ramp; hence the archetype’s existence. In our deck, we are trading consistent mana advantage for flexibility and virtual card advantage. We play 8 mana accelerants, not including Hour of Promise (this is an engine card, not an accelerant). 1 Chandra, 1 pillage, 4 gift, 2 Shefet.
The way these spells line up means we need to be interacting turns 1 and 2, then move straight to 5 mana. Hence 4 hour of devastation + 4 Hour of promise. I play the prerequisite 9 deserts to all but ensure I have a single desert in play when I cast Promise, and my mana sources align so that I should be able to cast all of my spells on curve, aside from t1 and T2 where taplands play a certain role.
Overall, I think the deck is in a great position, and I’m running it back in another PPTQ today. If I get another Top 8, I’ll likely play this in the standard seat in SCG Cinci (if I can convince my team that Mono Red isn’t where we should be). Moving forward, I’m considering all the Abrade out and just playing more magma spray, both because it’s the more often relevant play and because it’s more common to have just a single R on turn 2 than 1R because of taplands. And in the SB, it’s very possible that chandras Defeat is where this deck wants to be in regards to answering the red decks; especially so if we move Sweltering Suns to the MB. The
I hope we can keep tuning, the SB is where I have the biggest trouble. I can’t figure out a way to reliably beat the 4 Duress plan from Grixis, and Gonti is exceedingly annoying.
Looks pretty solid honestly, though I like Fight with Fire in a ramp deck as it can be either a finisher or a board wipe if you kick it.
It is worse than Banefire against counterspells but otherwise it is the better card imho.
I'd also max out on Sweltering Suns over Hour for better early interaction as in the lategame it is much easier to stabilize if you survive the earlier turns.
And it can also cycle when it isn't relevant.
Also, only 2x Gift seems a bit odd as it not only ramps but color-fixes and gains life, I'd probably bump it to 4x by trimming down a land
(Hostile Desert seems pretty bad) and either 1x Compass or 1x Grow.
The deck seems to miss enchantment removal so Naturalize or even better Thrashing Brontodon would help here, probably over some of the cheap red removal in the SB.
BtW, here some new ramp lists I wanted share here:
I've been on the BG version for a little bit, Carnage Tyrants and Vraskas in the main. Bloodfasts and Siphoners in the side for control.
It's been great, alot of 3-1 and 3-0-1 FNM finishes.
I'm a little scared of the Vine Mare decks as all the removal is black/targeted. I could blank the vine mare with a Tyrant... but there's only a few in the deck! This deck hits the City's blessing reliably, I'm thinking about trying out the Twilight Prophet as card advantage and to flip life totals with high mana cost flips. Anyone else experimenting?
As Hour of Promise is about to rotate (and Circuitous Route as its best replacement) and we got a reprint of Gift of Paradise I think it is a good time to brew a new ramp deck for the upcoming Standard format.
Play ramp cards.
Play the fatties.
Slam the enchants.
Need I say more?
Saffron Olive posted this list about a month ago:
4 Burning Sun's Avatar
2 Verdant Sun's Avatar
Spells (5)
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Fumigate
Artifacts (4)
4 Treasure Map
Enchantments (20)
4 Gift of Paradise
2 New Horizons
2 Ixalan's Binding
4 Trove of Temptation
4 Aid from the Cowl
2 Overwhelming Splendor
2 Sandwurm Convergence
4 Forest
2 Hashep Oasis
3 Mountain
3 Plains
2 Ramunap Ruins
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Spire of Industry
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Slash of Talons
3 Negate
2 Desert's Hold
3 Lost Legacy
2 Ixalan's Binding
3 Vance's Blasting Cannons
1 Fumigate
Since then, the deck has evolved -- dropping some number of the derpy dinos.
Post your Jund Desert Ramp deck below. Discuss, brew, and adapt to the changing metagame!
I haven't been impressed by Overwhelming Splendor so I've replaced it with Wakening Sun's Avatar which offers a one-sided board wipe and gains more life with Verdant Sun's Avatar while presenting a pretty fast clock to close out the game.
I've also replaced Settle the Wreckage with Sweltering Suns which can stabilize the board earlier (or cycled when unnecessary) and not ramp the opponent.
I'm also experimenting with Shefet Monitor over New Horizons as a ramp spell that cycles and can be another threat you can cast or put in play with Aid.
In the SB I think that Gideon's Intervention is a much better option for the deck than Lost Legacy and being a permanent also works with Aid.
For CA I like Nissa, Vital Force over Vance's Blasting Cannons, I even consider moving it into the maindeck over Sandwurm Convergence as it has been realy good out of the board for me.
Another good option can be Ajani Unyielding.
Authority of the Consuls works very well to combat the red aggro decks and I prefer it to Desert's Hold.
Hour of Devastation is also a decent SB option as it can deal with Hazoret as well as PW's unlike Fumigate.
Here is my version of the deck:
2x Shefet Monitor
4x Burning Sun's Avatar
2x Verdant Sun's Avatar
2x Wakening Sun's Avatar
Enchantment (16)
4x Gift of Paradise
4x Trove of Temptation
2x Ixalan's Binding
4x Aid from the Cowl
2x Sandwurm Convergence
Artifact (4)
4x Treasure Map
Sorcery (5)
2x Sweltering Suns
3x Fumigate
4x Forest
2x Plains
3x Mountain
3x Evolving Wilds
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Ramunap Ruins
1x Hashep Oasis
1x Scavenger Grounds
2x Inspiring Vantage
2x Authority of the Consuls
2x Cast Out
2x Ixalan's Binding
1x Sweltering Suns
1x Hour of Devastation
2x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Gideon's Intervention
3x Negate
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
also it doesn't run that many deserts (I run even less) to consistently get the zombies.
It is a completely different build than the one in the opening post.
Oh yeah that one!
It's a Gift of Paradise deck. I'll just rename this thread "Gift of Paradise Decks". It's sort of similar to Metalwork Colossus decks from last standard -- builds can go all over the place.
I like Torment but the rest of the win-cons don't seem particulary great and can just get shutdown by Negate and be left with 3x creatures
(not counting the 2x ramp guys).
Also not playing Treasure Map is wrong imho as it is a very efficiet ramp spell which also helps with filtering and draws cards later if necessary.
I have a new desert ramp deck to share:
The deck is Temur-colored with a tiny black splash for Nicol Bolas and SB Doomfall.
The main finishers are: 4x Burning Sun's Avatar, 2x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh and 2x Nissa, Vital Force
(with alternative option like: Sandwurm Convergence and Nezahal, Primal Tide in the SB).
Here it is:
4x Burning Sun's Avatar
Planeswalker (4)
2x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Sorcery (15)
4x Spring // Mind
4x Hour of Promise
4x Sweltering Suns
3x Hour of Devastation
Instant (8)
3x Abrade
4x Glimmer of Genius
1x Pull from Tomorrow
Enchantment (4)
4 Gift of Paradise
Land (25)
4x Rootbound Crag
2x Sheltered Thicket
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Scavenger Grounds
2x Hashep Oasis
1x Ipnu Rivulet
1x Desert of the Fervent
1x Desert of the Indomitable
1x Desert of the Mindful
4x Forest
4x Mountain
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Negate
3x Doomfall
2x Naturalize
2x Struggle // Survive
2x Nezahal, Primal Tide
2x Sandwurm Convergence
The plan is to ramp and stabilize the board with wraths to take over the game with big haymakers.
Burning Sun's Avatar was chosen as it does something even if it gets removed immediately, other options can probably be Carnage Tyrant and Walking Ballista.
Nissa can clock pretty quickly with 5/5 hasty lands, ult' to draw cards and in the late game it can bring back removed dinosaurs or Bolas.
Some cards I considered including but didn't find room for are Search for Azcanta and Treasure Map (or Thaumatic Compass).
// 4 Creature
4 Striped Riverwinder
// 10 Enchantment
4 Sunbird's Invocation
4 Gift of Paradise
3 Lay Claim
// 5 Instant
2 Struggle // Survive
3 Abrade
// 27 Land
6 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Field of Ruin
4 Island
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Swamp
4 Star of Extinction
4 Spring // Mind
1 Overflowing Insight
3 Brass's Bounty
1 Dark Intimations
// 1 Artifact
1 The Immortal Sun
// 5 Creature
4 Striped Riverwinder
1 Samut, Voice of Dissent
// 8 Enchantment
4 Sunbird's Invocation
4 Gift of Paradise
// 5 Instant
1 Struggle // Survive
4 Abrade
// 27 Land
4 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Field of Ruin
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Dragonskull Summit
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Star of Extinction
4 Spring // Mind
4 Dark Intimations
1 Overflowing Insight
1 Brass's Bounty
Heres my ideas Ive been working on. Its super fun to play with
I’ve been playing it and tuning it with the reddit /r/spikes crowd for a couple weeks, and I took it to a pptq last weekend to take down 3rd. Didn’t drop a single game until the semis, finally had bad enough luck to lose to Grixis 1-2 (their deck is exceptionally easy to beat for mine).
Here’s the list I played at the PPTQ:
3 Desert of the Fervent
2 Desert of the Indomitable
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Hostile Desert
2 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
Artifacts
3 Thaumatic Compass
Enchantments
4 Gift of Paradise
1 Sandwurm Convergence
3 Abrade
2 Magma Spray
2 Struggle // Survive
Sorceries
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Hour of Devastation
4 Hour of Promise
1 Pirate's Pillage
Planeswalkers
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creatures
4 Carnage Tyrant
1 Glorybringer
2 Shefet Monitor
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Arborback Stomper
3 Sweltering Suns
1 Abrade
2 Glorybringer
2 Rekindling Phoenix
1 Sandwurm Convergence
The deck is a blast to play, and an absolute puzzle to pilot correctly. In my first half-dozen or so competitive leagues, I had a total record of 16-12. Had some real bad leagues, had some real good leagues. Made a lot of mistakes at first, as I was learning both the standard meta AND my deck, at the same time.
When I finally took it to the PPTQ, I was pretty confident in my list. I had last-minute swapped out a MB Glorybringer for the Convergence and the 3rd Phoenix for the SB Convergence, and it paid off immensely; few decks can answer that card efficiently.
In my testing, my plan post-board still doesn’t feel that strong; Nissa overperforms, Chandra always feels mediocre, Glorybringer and Phoenix are great if they decided to shave removal otherwise meh, Sweltering Suns comes in a lot so I’ve considered just cutting 2 Abrades and 1 Hour of Dev to be playing 3 Sweltering MB... a handful of weak points.
I haven’t found any deck other than Approach that has a stronger late game than me. Scarab God is pretty mediocre when you just lock down the board until you cast Hour of Devastation with a carnage tyrant in play. Compass flipped makes them overcommit to the board, then you blow it all up. Sure they have counters, but you’re playing a very threat-dense deck after 5 mana.
Hour of promise is also both virtual and actual card advantage. A 4-for-1 card, grabbing 2 evolving wilds to thin out the remaining basics during your next upkeep means you’ll have 4 fewer lands to draw into vs last turn. Plus 4 power over two bodies... and you’ll be feeding 2 Hostile desert activations, which is my next point.
Hostile desert is the only actual manland in Standard. This is one of the few decks that can reliably play it. Evolving wilds, cathartic reunion, pirates pillage, 9 cycling lands — you never have an issue activating this guy. If I had more room for basics, I would play the 4th evolving wild to make the t3 Hostile Desert -> block happen more often. The fact that mono red casting on-curve creatures can’t beat a 3/4 blocker on T3, that isn’t a creature until after exert would trigger, is just bonkers.
T1/2 evolving wilds -> t3 you have an active hostile desert
T2 cathartic reunion pitching a land, t3 you have an active hostile desert
T2 cycle a land, t3 you have an active hostile desert
Those are all easy scenarios to hit. Turning 13 of our lands into utility (9 cycle, 4 lands) gives us a ton of virtual advantage over most decks. Don’t forget, if you have 6 mana untapped and your opponent attacks with something a Hostile Desert can favorably interact with, you can cycle Shefet to put one in play untapped and ambush an attacker! It also ambushes a t4 Chandra on an empty board, which is also relevant.
The other big advantage we have is the ability to play 4 carnage tyrant MB. Most decks can’t beat this guy G1. Because we play 4 cathartic reunion + 1 pirates pillage (2nd one was cut for Chandra, more flexible ramp), the risk of a clogged hand is mitigated a ton. The amount of times I’ve t2 ditched a carnage tyrant and an hour of X to cathartic reunion is unreal... that’s why we play the cards though! Speaking of cathartic reunion...
The biggest problems ramp decks face are two-fold: you draw the wrong half of your deck, and ramp all the way up to nothing, or you hit land drops every turn and hope you can cast one of the 12 payoff cards you’re playing before you lose. Typically, ramp decks want to consistently ramp; hence the archetype’s existence. In our deck, we are trading consistent mana advantage for flexibility and virtual card advantage. We play 8 mana accelerants, not including Hour of Promise (this is an engine card, not an accelerant). 1 Chandra, 1 pillage, 4 gift, 2 Shefet.
The way these spells line up means we need to be interacting turns 1 and 2, then move straight to 5 mana. Hence 4 hour of devastation + 4 Hour of promise. I play the prerequisite 9 deserts to all but ensure I have a single desert in play when I cast Promise, and my mana sources align so that I should be able to cast all of my spells on curve, aside from t1 and T2 where taplands play a certain role.
Overall, I think the deck is in a great position, and I’m running it back in another PPTQ today. If I get another Top 8, I’ll likely play this in the standard seat in SCG Cinci (if I can convince my team that Mono Red isn’t where we should be). Moving forward, I’m considering all the Abrade out and just playing more magma spray, both because it’s the more often relevant play and because it’s more common to have just a single R on turn 2 than 1R because of taplands. And in the SB, it’s very possible that chandras Defeat is where this deck wants to be in regards to answering the red decks; especially so if we move Sweltering Suns to the MB. The
I hope we can keep tuning, the SB is where I have the biggest trouble. I can’t figure out a way to reliably beat the 4 Duress plan from Grixis, and Gonti is exceedingly annoying.
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Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-black-green-ramp-52614
I'm not really a fan of Wayward Swordtooth here and would probably prefer either of the following cards instead:
Grow from the Ashes (Beneath the Sands), Shefet Monitor, Treasure Map or Thaumatic Compass.
Dissenter's Deliverance also seems pre-sideboarded as well and is probably a meta-call.
The top-end threats look good but there are also more options like:
Walking Ballista, Demonlord Belzenlok, Josu Vess, Lich Knight, Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar, Torment of Hailfire and Sandwurm Convergence.
This looks like a pretty promising build for the ramp archetype.
Any comments will be helpful.
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Desert of the Fervent
1x Desert of the Indomitable
4x Forest
3x Hashep Oasis
1x Hostile Desert
3x Ipnu Rivulet
2x Island
4x Mountain
2x Rootbound Crag
1x Scavenger Grounds
4x Sheltered Thicket
3x Abrade
3x Commit // Memory
Sorcery - 18
2x Banefire
2x Grow from the Ashes
4x Hour of Devastation
4x Hour of Promise
4x Spring // Mind
2x Sweltering Suns
Artifact - 3
3x Thaumatic Compass
Enchantment - 2
2x Gift of Paradise
Creature - 4
4x Sifter Wurm
2x Carnage Tyrant
2x Chandra's Defeat
2x Magma Spray
2x Negate
2x Pelakka Wurm
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Walking Ballista
1x Abrade
Not sure whether I should splash black and make room for Cut // Ribbons.
Thanks,
DC
It is worse than Banefire against counterspells but otherwise it is the better card imho.
I'd also max out on Sweltering Suns over Hour for better early interaction as in the lategame it is much easier to stabilize if you survive the earlier turns.
And it can also cycle when it isn't relevant.
Also, only 2x Gift seems a bit odd as it not only ramps but color-fixes and gains life, I'd probably bump it to 4x by trimming down a land
(Hostile Desert seems pretty bad) and either 1x Compass or 1x Grow.
The deck seems to miss enchantment removal so Naturalize or even better Thrashing Brontodon would help here, probably over some of the cheap red removal in the SB.
BtW, here some new ramp lists I wanted share here:
# The Sifter Wurm variants - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-temur-sifter-wurm
# a Jund-colored list with Cut // Ribbons and Pelakka Wurm - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-jund-control-53788
It's been great, alot of 3-1 and 3-0-1 FNM finishes.
I'm a little scared of the Vine Mare decks as all the removal is black/targeted. I could blank the vine mare with a Tyrant... but there's only a few in the deck! This deck hits the City's blessing reliably, I'm thinking about trying out the Twilight Prophet as card advantage and to flip life totals with high mana cost flips. Anyone else experimenting?
Yahenni's Expertise and Bontu's Last Reckoning can take out Vine Mare as well.
Twilight Prophet seems like a decent idea if you can keep it around for a couple of turns without it getting removed.
After losing notable removal spells like: Abrade, Sweltering Suns and Hour of Devastation and good PW finishers like Chandra and Nicol Bolas I think that playing white for removal is a good idea, especailly for:
Deafening Clarion, Cleansing Nova and also Seal Away/Ixalan's Binding.
I went with Naya as my colors with Negate in the SB as splashing it is basically free with the mana fixing in the deck.
Choosing the win-cons is the harder part imho though I still like Fight with Fire + Banefire the best but besides it the main options I see are:
Carnage Tyrant, Chandra, Bold Pyromancer (yes, a PW deck card), Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner, Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar, Pelakka Wurm,
Etali, Primal Storm and Lathliss, Dragon Queen.
There are also: Zacama, Primal Calamity, Zetalpa, Primal Dawn and Impervious Greatwurm but those seem a bit ambitious and slow even for a ramp deck an won't necessarily win the game on their own.
I'm leaning towards Carnage Tyrant (hard to interact with) for now but that might change.
Here is my idea for a list:
4x Thrashing Brontodon
4x Carnage Tyrant
Sorcery (15)
4x Grow from the Ashes
4x Circuitous Route
4x Fight with Fire
3x Banefire
Enchantment (10)
4x Gift of Paradise
3x Seal Away
3x Ixalan's Binding
Artifact (2)
2x Thaumatic Compass
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Temple Garden
3x Sacred Foundry
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Arch of Orazca
5x Forest
4x Mountain
2x Plains
1x Island
4x Negate
4x Deafening Clarion
3x Cleansing Nova
2x Chandra, Bold Pyromancer
2x Pelakka Wurm