Fall of the Thran looks like an exciting card but it needs so much help to accomplish it's purpose
if you're planning to put the last Saga trigger from Phyrexian Scriptures to 187 their GY or even Rescue it before any lands return I'm all for it. but giving your opponent 2 lands the next turn could have you staring at a 2-3 mana removal spell after you were lucky rnough to resolve a 6 mana spell.
still looks like a fun card to try and break, maybe some combination or Powerstone Shard or Mirage Mirror could give it some legs
maybe there's a Flicker effect that I can't recall off the top of my head
I know what you mean, but at this point, I'm also into looking at Thran temporal gateway because I can put something directly into play for 4 mana, which means I can put a Saga, Artifact or Legendary permanent directly into play as an instant.
What does this mean?
You can put in Fall of the Thran as early as turn 5, as an instant on opp's turn and it can't be countered unless he has Disallow or nimble obstructionist. After you destroy the lands you can still use the Thran gateway to put other cards into play as soon as you hit 4 mana again which could be the next turn, if you drop a land, put 2 into play from the saga and flip search for azcanta.
You can also put torrential gearhulk into play for 4 mana as well which is pretty damn good, not to mention putting Nezahal into play on your opp's turn for 4 mana only. You can also put a planeswalker into play such as Teferi, Gideon or Dovin Baan if you play these as well as other legendary cards like search for azcanta and all these can come in as an instant on your opp's turn and they can't counter them.
So, I may be testing a build with 2-3 Thran Temporal Gateway in the deck since it already works really well with other cards already in the deck. This card was built to be well built around but it would fit very well in a control deck and I believe it will go up in price in the next couple of weeks so you better get your copies quickly while they are still about $5.
Am I alone in thinking that the new Teferi PW is just not that good? As for him being "the best PW in Standard"...You have met Chandra and Gideon, right? Both are categorically more powerful and I think Vraska is better too. (Hell, Chandra is Legacy quality!) Tef bears testing but, at first glance at least, looks decidedly mediocre. That doesn't matter though. The question is how it fits into the game plan. Does it help us or hinder us? What does it do more efficiently than the options we currently have available to us? Right now we have Gideon at 3CMC forcing oppos to extend into our sweepers -- neatly fitting right into our strategy. Also, not incidentally, Gideon wins the mirror!
As for Lyra Dawnbringer: Yeah, let's just turn on all the removal clogging up our opponents' hands. One of the things that has us so well positioned right now is that most oppos are running 8-12 removal cards that do almost nothing against us. Even when we run Gearhulks, they tend to function more as extra Settles and Glimpses than actual threats. They do their primary job on cast and if you get to block or turn them sideways then you are getting a bonus. I don't usually care that much when my Gearhulk is killed right away. Playing Lyria instead of sweeping your oppo's board and counting on her lifelink to keep you alive will only result in you being sad when they Contempt her away.
Fall of the Thran: Oh FFS! I can't believe people are really even thinking about the card in THIS (!) deck. I want to cast a seven mana sorcery! Ideally with counterspell back up. I am terrified of someone else resolving Armageddon, not looking to cast it myself.
I understand that people are excited about the new set -- and it does look like a pretty decent design effort from WoTC (something that's long overdue) -- but let's not get carried away by Christmas Morning-itis. All of these cards may function in a UW control shell...but it's going to be a very different deck than the one we run now.
For me, the new set offers Syncopate and Seal Away. If you want to go Esper then the reprint land is good too. And that's it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
@M@lcontent: I agree re: Lyra Dawnbringer and Fall of the Thran. For 5 mana, I'd much rather have 3 cats (7 total power) than one big old Vraska's Contempt target. At least with the cats they need 3 removal spells to get rid of them all. I've seen a few red decks bring in Sweltering Suns from the sideboard specifically for the cats, so I grant that Lyra would be better in that situation, but I think getting 3 bodies is worth the risk.
Part of me wonders whether Fall of the Thran might work in a build that relies on a bunch of artifacts and Inspiring Statuary, but if I'm mentioning Inspiring Statuary, chances are I'm pretty far from a viable deck. Although when I first thought of Inspiring Statuary, I wondered whether there might be potential for a ramp deck that relies on that card and a bunch of artifacts to accelerate the Approach--the Bant Approach had some success with ramp, and even Mono-W relies on Orazca relic to approach quicker...seems too janky to work, but I might test it out, particularly with Mox Amber.
I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria could have promise. Gideon mainly functions as a must-answer threat that either draws a contempt right away (meaning opponent takes a turn off to get rid of him), or else saves you 3-7 life from creatures attacking him, and he (very occasionally, but sometimes) can get the win through beatdowns. The upside to Teferi is that with negate backup to protect against contempt, he has a better chance of sticking around for a turn or two (or hopefully longer), and his ultimate is backbreaking. Approach necks need ways to stay alive long enough to approach twice, and Teferi is another good option to let you do that because he's must-answer. Is he better than Gideon?
I also agree re Esper being more viable after DOM drops. I think Jeskai may be worth another look. With Sulfur Falls the mana base will be just as good as Esper, and Wizard's Retort and Wizard's Lightning along with a few copies of Baral, Chief of Compliance (and potentially the Naga Wizard Champion of Wits). I don't like the idea of moving away from a creatureless build, but there may be value in doing so. Reducing instants/sorceries by 1 is a good thing, as is plowing through your deck with Champ...
Making the argument not to play a creature because "it dies to removal", is not an argument at all. If that is the case, how does UB control do it?
Yes, Approach does offer a unique win con for control that is rarely seen in the history of the game. But what happens when it rotates? Control is no longer viable because you have to play creatures that die to removal as your wincon? As if Approach cannot be Duressed, Negated, or Doomfalled away. I mean, get real dude.
And what is with this thread? People that think Baneslayer Angel is bad. Dont want to play Glimmer of Genius. Only wanted to play two colors when there was no legit two mana remover. And now that there is, want to add a third color.
@kpal: Not sure if you were "get real"ing me or the previous dude, but my point was just that the 3 bodies caracal provides strike me as being a better option in a mostly creature-less deck than the one dawnbringer. Approach is a fragile wincon post-board (when negate, duress, and doomfall typically come in), no doubt about that. For me, it's a question of what the best alternate creature-based wincons are games 2 & 3, and I think it's nice to have extra bodies on the battlefield.
I think that we talked about what we'd love to have in our decks, but the truth of the matter is that decks will just get faster in the Dominaria standard especially mono green, RG Monsters, dinos and any deck running green due to Llanowar Elves.
People are brewing decks which can play Carnage Tyrant or Ghalta on turn 4 regularly due to elves being played on turn one. So, we have to have a lot of removal for the early game, and we do have to be able to clear the board by turn 4 or turn 5 no matter what. So, I know that Fumigate is still a big player in our deck, but if the green and RG decks run crazy we may have to be playing Slaughter the strong in the sideboard, if not even trying it main deck as well.
We all know aggro decks are relatively easy to play, and mono-green, RG monsters both have good matchups against mono-Red, so many people will play those decks. Also, goblins may be a deck waiting in the darkness to rear its ugly head again, but even without goblins, we are looking at about a turn faster standard when facing mono green, GR monsters or any other deck running green.
So, let's focus on the best build pre-sideboard to deal with aggro decks since we usually have a good matchup against mid-range and control decks anyways.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
I don't know who he's tilting at either, but it doesn't really matter. My argument against Lyra is not that she dies to removal. Everything dies to removal. My argument against her and -- especially -- building around her, is that right now running no dorks G1 strands a ton of cards in our opponents' hands. It makes about 15% of their draws dead before we even play the 1st land. It's basic Art of War -- our enemy is looking to fight us in a place we aren't attacking.
Also, comparing Lyra to Baneslayer is more than a little bit strong. I get that she's a 5 mana 5/5 flyer with lifelink and that's good, but Walletslayer isn't legendary. Also, Walletslayer usually went in decks that are very different to the one we are running. More often than know you drew removal out with things like Knight of the White Orchid and other dorks. Those decks were generally just more reliant on dorks than we are.
I don't think Slaughter the Strong is a Wrath, but you can Seal Away a Llanowar Elves to keep the flow of fatties manageable
lets revisit Lyra when The Scarab God rotates
'it dies to removal' is a real thing when you have no other creatures to die
Agree about Slaughter the Strong potentially being a nice check against the G deck that's likely coming down the pike. I'm not sure about mainboarding it, but it may find a home in the SB depending on how the metagame shakes out.
I played against a mono G stompy-style deck tonight on MTGO that was super fast...way too fast for the typical UW setup, and it will only get faster with Llanowar Elves. G1 he went:
It was reminiscent of the Pummeler decks that were running around for a while--putting you on a fast clock that you have to disrupt or else die fast. Chump blockers will only get you so far with the trample provided by Rhonas's Monument (and, of course, Galta).
StarCityGames has an article about control. Dominaria's Many Gifts To Blue Mages. It is a Premium article, so below is one of the lists Patrick came up with.
When talking about Lyra he said
"Baneslayer Angel 2.0 is no joke, but there's still the question of what mix of removal opponents play. Transforming into a mix of Regal Caracal and Lyra really forks your opponents that will be anticipating transformation. They may have solid answers for one or the other, but how many pieces of interaction are good against both?"
I don't know Patrick Chapin or whether he's played much UW (or Approach) in this standard, but I'm puzzled by some of his card choices. The 2x Gideon/Teferi seems like a good place to start for a new-style UW Approach build, but the Evolving Wilds doesn't strike me as being a good choice for the deck (as opposed to a couple more Field of Ruin). 2 Ipnu also seems wrong because it's a hidden wincon that's tough for opponents to stop. Spells-wise, it's a lot of the usual suspects...some things I've moved away from (Censor, Pull from Tomorrow, Hieroglyphic Illumination), but only 2 Approaches seems incorrect. Sideboard is highly suspect (particularly Spell Pierce, Sacred Cat, Solemnity?).
I hadn't considered Memorial to Genius...might be a nice 1-of late game include, but I'm just so leery of enters-tapped lands that I'm not sure it's worth it.
those lists seem really solid; tons of cycling,highly focused on flipping Ascanta
little surprised they didn't want to try out Syncopate or Unwind
I do tend to play lots of 1 of's in sideboard. Patrick playing in all those high competition events where your decklist is open knowledge
must like to keep people guessing.
I agree wholeheartedly with codaddy. Some really suspect choices there. I'm not going to worry about the pros and cons of Teferi until I can test it, but Evolving Wilds is dubious for a couple of reasons. Only 2 Settles, only 2 Approaches and the SB is a mess. Although, the use of Lyra in the transformational board makes some sense to me. I dislike her in the MB, but going with a mix of Cats and Angels for G2 might make a little sense. I also like the Memorial to Genius. I used to run the other land that did that in my first version of this deck, but it rotated.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
He probably on spent 10-15 minutes working on the list for his article so I would not take either of those lists as is to a major event. But it is interesting to look at the list and kind of start to see the way he thinks. For me, those are just a good starting point with the new set. I am with you about Evolving Wilds but he really seems to like it, it is in all his decks. So worth taking a look at.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
StarCityGames has an article about control. Dominaria's Many Gifts To Blue Mages. It is a Premium article, so below is one of the lists Patrick came up with.
When talking about Lyra he said
"Baneslayer Angel 2.0 is no joke, but there's still the question of what mix of removal opponents play. Transforming into a mix of Regal Caracal and Lyra really forks your opponents that will be anticipating transformation. They may have solid answers for one or the other, but how many pieces of interaction are good against both?"
Thanks for the info pumpmonkey, those decklists look like he really did come up with them in less than 10 minutes just to fill out an article that he needed to do.
I may not be making much sense I've been playing MTG Arena beta for the past 5 hrs, had to finally take a break I'm at 21-11 so far, and I've been using two different decks although neither are U/W since I don't have the cards to build the deck in Arena since the packs I got to start and open all had crap rares.
Anyways, back to this deck, the decklists look strange and there's no way you want to run Lyra Dawnbringer main deck, and in the sideboard you have to know that the opp will probably know you are bringing it in, and unfortunately you can't just tap out and drop it on turn 5 because Vraska's Contempt and Hour of Devastation are still cards.
I got nothing against angels, god knows 10 years ago I build an EDH deck which is an B/W angel deck which I just resurrected a couple of weeks ago, so I'm a big fan of angels but running this main deck would mean to change the deck quite a bit to fit her and also maybe find space to run Shalai, Voice of Plenty in the same main deck build. In terms of sideboarding, again we have to be careful since everyone will expect Lyra to come in from the sideboard so they will play around her, and although I really want her to be good I don't see that happening right now. It's also a good idea to wait for her craze to go down and for her to go under $20 a piece.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
First off, @the_codaddy, congratulations on making day 2. The is very awesome. Several friends told me after Memphis that the first one is the hardest. So from here on we expect day 2 at every GP.
Seriously, nice job.
Ok, Domanaira, I think the new set is going to make standard into a very fast format. The guys at my LGS has been brewing UG Monsters and now drop Carnage Tyrant on turn 3 pretty consistently. Our old way of thinking about games, play land go until turn 4-5 then board wipe, I don't think is going to work. We are going to have to speed up our deck as well. As much as I like UW and how smooth it is, I am going to go back and try Esper again. Fatal Push is just so strong right now. Having that and Seal Away is going to be fun. Also, I am thinking about changing up my numbers. Previously I ran 6 draws, glimmer/search, 12 counters, 4-5 removal, 7 wipes, 5-6 Win-con, 25-26 lands. Now I am playing with 25-26 lands, 4 Draw, Glimmer, 12 spot removal, Push/Seal/Cast Out/Vraskas's, 6 counter, 4 Settle and 6 Win-con. That leaves about 3 flex spots. Right now those are 3 Censor but pretty sure that will change as I do more testing.
As far as win-con's, right now still using my same old ones. I really like Teferi, just need to play with him more. Lyra Dawnbriger seems really good, the only issue with her is that mainboard, we only have 1-3 creatures and by the time she hits the board, there is a pretty good chance they have drawn some of their removal. So we will usually have to fight over her. Not a bad thing, just something to keep in mind.
Again, this is nowhere near my final list, just where I am at right now. Let me know what you think.
I wonder if we are going to see more main-board enchantment hate with all of the sagas in Dom. If so, that may hurt White more than the other colors. . .
@Hobbits73 - Sure, the Esper mana base is very smooth now with the reprint of Isolated Chapel. Drop a cycling land one turn one and the rest of the game all your dual lands come in untapped. That really helps smooth things out, so far in my testing, I have had very little issue with not having the right mana when I need it. Right now, Push hit so much stuff in any of the aggro decks that running those and Seal Away just makes keeping the board clear until you can cast a sweeper a lot easier. Vraska's Contempt is also super nice. The exile effect is very relevant in a meta that I feel like is going to start running more enchantment hate, both main and in the side. Esper also opens up more options in the sideboard (Duress, Doomfall, etc.). And gives you access to The Scarab God and Profane Procession, either of those can win the game by themselves and a lot of decks can't deal with them.
2 color decks are more consistent than 3 color decks, there is no way I can argue about that. But usually, 3 color decks are 'Stronger'. I still go back and forth between the 2. Right now focusing on Esper and just waiting to see what the meta does, I really feel like it is going to get a lot faster. Having access to one mana spot removal should help with that. Just my 2 cents.
But Patrick Chapin's lists look pretty sweet and with just a little bit of tweaking...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
I was also at Esper at first a week or so ago but now switched to UW. Sure you lose The Scarab God, Fatal Push and Vraska's Contempt but you'll get a more solid base in return. I've checked Chapin's list, tweaked it a little because I wasn't very happy with Evolving Wilds among other things.
This is where I'm at now, feels good. After game 1 it's possible to transition to a more creature based deck if required while still keeping your control options open. Any comments are welcome. Also trying out 1 Slaughter the Strong main as a cheaper sweeper for all the big boys out there.
I was looking again at some of the DOM spoilers, and I think Jaya Ballard may be worth a look in a Jeskai Approach shell. Both of her +1s are great to cast or dig for approach (or other answers you may need), and her -8 has great synergy with all the instants and sorcerers we play. I dabbled in UW Drake for a while, and Abandoned Sarcophagus is no joke. Her emblem does the same for all of your counterspells and sweepers, which is huge.
It’s too bad she doesn’t protect herself: that and her high CMC (and RRR cost) might be reasons she won’t work, but as with all other walkers, she’ll be a lightning rod for attacks which can keep life total afloat.
I was looking again at some of the DOM spoilers, and I think Jaya Ballard may be worth a look in a Jeskai Approach shell. Both of her +1s are great to cast or dig for approach (or other answers you may need), and her -8 has great synergy with all the instants and sorcerers we play. I dabbled in UW Drake for a while, and Abandoned Sarcophagus is no joke. Her emblem does the same for all of your counterspells and sweepers, which is huge.
It’s too bad she doesn’t protect herself: that and her high CMC (and RRR cost) might be reasons she won’t work, but as with all other walkers, she’ll be a lightning rod for attacks which can keep life total afloat.
Haven't seen that card before. That would be pretty sweet with a The Locust God on the board.
I was also at Esper at first a week or so ago but now switched to UW. Sure you lose The Scarab God, Fatal Push and Vraska's Contempt but you'll get a more solid base in return. I've checked Chapin's list, tweaked it a little because I wasn't very happy with Evolving Wilds among other things.
This is where I'm at now, feels good. After game 1 it's possible to transition to a more creature based deck if required while still keeping your control options open. Any comments are welcome. Also trying out 1 Slaughter the Strong main as a cheaper sweeper for all the big boys out there.
I like your build, a lot more than the pro's build that's for sure. Having said that I feel that Teferi main deck is not a good choice, the reason is that against aggro decks which are any type of Red decks, or the new Knight decks as well as R/G dinos you will be dead before Teferi comes out and even if he is out the opp won't care much about him and just run you over with creatures. I would test him as a 1 of or at most 2 of in the maindeck.
Second I like that you included Slaughter the strong and I think this should be a 2 of in the deck at least, there will be a lot of big creatures coming out fast including turn 4 Carnage Tyrant and we need this card to deal with him. I know settle deals with him as does fumigate but it's good to have a 3 mana answer as well.
I'm not sold on blink of an eye, because I run T. Gearhulk main deck so I'd rather run commit instead and also the 1 Pull from tomorrow is too situational and will not work at all in most games, and if you can cast it for a lot it means you're winning anyway.
I would also go up to 4 on Essence scatter, it will be a creature heavy meta so this spell is golden.
As for the sideboard, I don't know what's up with the 1 spell pierce and 1 solemnity but they're not so good as just 1 of. I also think now that T. Gearhulk should be main-decked instead of sideboarded in, because what will you side them in against? Against aggro they are too slow, against control they don't really do much but there's more effective cards to side in the mirror match than gearhulks.
I will be posting my decklist next week, after Dominaria is out and I can get some cards to playtest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
I was also at Esper at first a week or so ago but now switched to UW. Sure you lose The Scarab God, Fatal Push and Vraska's Contempt but you'll get a more solid base in return. I've checked Chapin's list, tweaked it a little because I wasn't very happy with Evolving Wilds among other things.
This is where I'm at now, feels good. After game 1 it's possible to transition to a more creature based deck if required while still keeping your control options open. Any comments are welcome. Also trying out 1 Slaughter the Strong main as a cheaper sweeper for all the big boys out there.
I like your build, a lot more than the pro's build that's for sure. Having said that I feel that Teferi main deck is not a good choice, the reason is that against aggro decks which are any type of Red decks, or the new Knight decks as well as R/G dinos you will be dead before Teferi comes out and even if he is out the opp won't care much about him and just run you over with creatures. I would test him as a 1 of or at most 2 of in the maindeck.
Second I like that you included Slaughter the strong and I think this should be a 2 of in the deck at least, there will be a lot of big creatures coming out fast including turn 4 Carnage Tyrant and we need this card to deal with him. I know settle deals with him as does fumigate but it's good to have a 3 mana answer as well.
I'm not sold on blink of an eye, because I run T. Gearhulk main deck so I'd rather run commit instead and also the 1 Pull from tomorrow is too situational and will not work at all in most games, and if you can cast it for a lot it means you're winning anyway.
I would also go up to 4 on Essence scatter, it will be a creature heavy meta so this spell is golden.
As for the sideboard, I don't know what's up with the 1 spell pierce and 1 solemnity but they're not so good as just 1 of. I also think now that T. Gearhulk should be main-decked instead of sideboarded in, because what will you side them in against? Against aggro they are too slow, against control they don't really do much but there's more effective cards to side in the mirror match than gearhulks.
I will be posting my decklist next week, after Dominaria is out and I can get some cards to playtest.
With T. Gearhulk, by your statement, we shouldn't be running it at all (which I disagree with tbh)
If it's too slow maindeck and too slow and situational to side in, why not just run something else. I plan on dumping gearhulks for more spells as I will be running less instants and more enchantments like seal away.
I also feel forsake the worldly should be incorporated in the 75 somewhere. It is house to blow up opposing cast outs/bindings and is fairly decent vs vehicles.
And cycle is good too
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UCHIHA ITACHI FLOWCHART
1) Genjutsu before battle. Did it work? if yes go to 3 If not go to 2
2) Tsukuyomi if worked go to 7 if not go to 4
3) Attack the confused enemy. If it worked, go to 7, if not go to 2
4) Ninjutsu. If it worked go to 7 if not go to 5
5) Amaterasu. If it worked go to 7, if not go to 6
6) Susano'o. If it worked go to 7, If not go to 8
7) Itachi wins
8) Itachi loses
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
I know what you mean, but at this point, I'm also into looking at Thran temporal gateway because I can put something directly into play for 4 mana, which means I can put a Saga, Artifact or Legendary permanent directly into play as an instant.
What does this mean?
You can put in Fall of the Thran as early as turn 5, as an instant on opp's turn and it can't be countered unless he has Disallow or nimble obstructionist. After you destroy the lands you can still use the Thran gateway to put other cards into play as soon as you hit 4 mana again which could be the next turn, if you drop a land, put 2 into play from the saga and flip search for azcanta.
You can also put torrential gearhulk into play for 4 mana as well which is pretty damn good, not to mention putting Nezahal into play on your opp's turn for 4 mana only. You can also put a planeswalker into play such as Teferi, Gideon or Dovin Baan if you play these as well as other legendary cards like search for azcanta and all these can come in as an instant on your opp's turn and they can't counter them.
So, I may be testing a build with 2-3 Thran Temporal Gateway in the deck since it already works really well with other cards already in the deck. This card was built to be well built around but it would fit very well in a control deck and I believe it will go up in price in the next couple of weeks so you better get your copies quickly while they are still about $5.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
a'la FotT and you can tutor up your gateways with Inventors' Fair
As for Lyra Dawnbringer: Yeah, let's just turn on all the removal clogging up our opponents' hands. One of the things that has us so well positioned right now is that most oppos are running 8-12 removal cards that do almost nothing against us. Even when we run Gearhulks, they tend to function more as extra Settles and Glimpses than actual threats. They do their primary job on cast and if you get to block or turn them sideways then you are getting a bonus. I don't usually care that much when my Gearhulk is killed right away. Playing Lyria instead of sweeping your oppo's board and counting on her lifelink to keep you alive will only result in you being sad when they Contempt her away.
Fall of the Thran: Oh FFS! I can't believe people are really even thinking about the card in THIS (!) deck. I want to cast a seven mana sorcery! Ideally with counterspell back up. I am terrified of someone else resolving Armageddon, not looking to cast it myself.
I understand that people are excited about the new set -- and it does look like a pretty decent design effort from WoTC (something that's long overdue) -- but let's not get carried away by Christmas Morning-itis. All of these cards may function in a UW control shell...but it's going to be a very different deck than the one we run now.
For me, the new set offers Syncopate and Seal Away. If you want to go Esper then the reprint land is good too. And that's it.
Part of me wonders whether Fall of the Thran might work in a build that relies on a bunch of artifacts and Inspiring Statuary, but if I'm mentioning Inspiring Statuary, chances are I'm pretty far from a viable deck. Although when I first thought of Inspiring Statuary, I wondered whether there might be potential for a ramp deck that relies on that card and a bunch of artifacts to accelerate the Approach--the Bant Approach had some success with ramp, and even Mono-W relies on Orazca relic to approach quicker...seems too janky to work, but I might test it out, particularly with Mox Amber.
I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria could have promise. Gideon mainly functions as a must-answer threat that either draws a contempt right away (meaning opponent takes a turn off to get rid of him), or else saves you 3-7 life from creatures attacking him, and he (very occasionally, but sometimes) can get the win through beatdowns. The upside to Teferi is that with negate backup to protect against contempt, he has a better chance of sticking around for a turn or two (or hopefully longer), and his ultimate is backbreaking. Approach necks need ways to stay alive long enough to approach twice, and Teferi is another good option to let you do that because he's must-answer. Is he better than Gideon?
I also agree re Esper being more viable after DOM drops. I think Jeskai may be worth another look. With Sulfur Falls the mana base will be just as good as Esper, and Wizard's Retort and Wizard's Lightning along with a few copies of Baral, Chief of Compliance (and potentially the Naga Wizard Champion of Wits). I don't like the idea of moving away from a creatureless build, but there may be value in doing so. Reducing instants/sorceries by 1 is a good thing, as is plowing through your deck with Champ...
Yes, Approach does offer a unique win con for control that is rarely seen in the history of the game. But what happens when it rotates? Control is no longer viable because you have to play creatures that die to removal as your wincon? As if Approach cannot be Duressed, Negated, or Doomfalled away. I mean, get real dude.
And what is with this thread? People that think Baneslayer Angel is bad. Dont want to play Glimmer of Genius. Only wanted to play two colors when there was no legit two mana remover. And now that there is, want to add a third color.
Strange.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
People are brewing decks which can play Carnage Tyrant or Ghalta on turn 4 regularly due to elves being played on turn one. So, we have to have a lot of removal for the early game, and we do have to be able to clear the board by turn 4 or turn 5 no matter what. So, I know that Fumigate is still a big player in our deck, but if the green and RG decks run crazy we may have to be playing Slaughter the strong in the sideboard, if not even trying it main deck as well.
We all know aggro decks are relatively easy to play, and mono-green, RG monsters both have good matchups against mono-Red, so many people will play those decks. Also, goblins may be a deck waiting in the darkness to rear its ugly head again, but even without goblins, we are looking at about a turn faster standard when facing mono green, GR monsters or any other deck running green.
I know we got Seal Away and we still got settle the wreckage and fumigate, but I will be testing a couple of slaughter the strong maindeck just to be able to clear the board on turn 3 or turn 4 for sure.
So, let's focus on the best build pre-sideboard to deal with aggro decks since we usually have a good matchup against mid-range and control decks anyways.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Also, comparing Lyra to Baneslayer is more than a little bit strong. I get that she's a 5 mana 5/5 flyer with lifelink and that's good, but Walletslayer isn't legendary. Also, Walletslayer usually went in decks that are very different to the one we are running. More often than know you drew removal out with things like Knight of the White Orchid and other dorks. Those decks were generally just more reliant on dorks than we are.
lets revisit Lyra when The Scarab God rotates
'it dies to removal' is a real thing when you have no other creatures to die
I played against a mono G stompy-style deck tonight on MTGO that was super fast...way too fast for the typical UW setup, and it will only get faster with Llanowar Elves. G1 he went:
The good thing about Slaughter the Strong is that it will get around Blossoming Defense and Heroic Intervention. I also think Authority of the Consuls might become a thing again (or remaining a thing for those who kept it in the SB).
When talking about Lyra he said
"Baneslayer Angel 2.0 is no joke, but there's still the question of what mix of removal opponents play. Transforming into a mix of Regal Caracal and Lyra really forks your opponents that will be anticipating transformation. They may have solid answers for one or the other, but how many pieces of interaction are good against both?"
Just food for thought.
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (25)
4 Island
5 Plains
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Memorial to Genius
1 Scavenger Grounds
Spells (31)
3 Cast Out
3 Seal Away
1 Blink of an Eye
2 Censor
4 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Negate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Glory-Bound Initiate
2 Regal Caracal
2 Sacred Cat
1 Solemnity
1 Invoke the Divine
1 Jace's Defeat
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Fragmentize
This is where he said he would start at for a non Approach list.
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Gideon of the Trials
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (25)
4 Island
5 Plains
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Memorial to Genius
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Cast Out
3 Seal Away
2 Censor
4 Disallow
3 Essence Scatter
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Negate
2 Settle the Wreckage
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Fumigate
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
I don't know Patrick Chapin or whether he's played much UW (or Approach) in this standard, but I'm puzzled by some of his card choices. The 2x Gideon/Teferi seems like a good place to start for a new-style UW Approach build, but the Evolving Wilds doesn't strike me as being a good choice for the deck (as opposed to a couple more Field of Ruin). 2 Ipnu also seems wrong because it's a hidden wincon that's tough for opponents to stop. Spells-wise, it's a lot of the usual suspects...some things I've moved away from (Censor, Pull from Tomorrow, Hieroglyphic Illumination), but only 2 Approaches seems incorrect. Sideboard is highly suspect (particularly Spell Pierce, Sacred Cat, Solemnity?).
I hadn't considered Memorial to Genius...might be a nice 1-of late game include, but I'm just so leery of enters-tapped lands that I'm not sure it's worth it.
little surprised they didn't want to try out Syncopate or Unwind
I do tend to play lots of 1 of's in sideboard. Patrick playing in all those high competition events where your decklist is open knowledge
must like to keep people guessing.
I agree wholeheartedly with codaddy. Some really suspect choices there. I'm not going to worry about the pros and cons of Teferi until I can test it, but Evolving Wilds is dubious for a couple of reasons. Only 2 Settles, only 2 Approaches and the SB is a mess. Although, the use of Lyra in the transformational board makes some sense to me. I dislike her in the MB, but going with a mix of Cats and Angels for G2 might make a little sense. I also like the Memorial to Genius. I used to run the other land that did that in my first version of this deck, but it rotated.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
Thanks for the info pumpmonkey, those decklists look like he really did come up with them in less than 10 minutes just to fill out an article that he needed to do.
I may not be making much sense I've been playing MTG Arena beta for the past 5 hrs, had to finally take a break I'm at 21-11 so far, and I've been using two different decks although neither are U/W since I don't have the cards to build the deck in Arena since the packs I got to start and open all had crap rares.
Anyways, back to this deck, the decklists look strange and there's no way you want to run Lyra Dawnbringer main deck, and in the sideboard you have to know that the opp will probably know you are bringing it in, and unfortunately you can't just tap out and drop it on turn 5 because Vraska's Contempt and Hour of Devastation are still cards.
I got nothing against angels, god knows 10 years ago I build an EDH deck which is an B/W angel deck which I just resurrected a couple of weeks ago, so I'm a big fan of angels but running this main deck would mean to change the deck quite a bit to fit her and also maybe find space to run Shalai, Voice of Plenty in the same main deck build. In terms of sideboarding, again we have to be careful since everyone will expect Lyra to come in from the sideboard so they will play around her, and although I really want her to be good I don't see that happening right now. It's also a good idea to wait for her craze to go down and for her to go under $20 a piece.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Hey there pumpmonkey!
Would you mind elaborating on why you are leaning Esper? Fatal Push won't help with a Steel Leaf Champion on turn 2 where Baffling End or Seal Away will. Are you thinking Push is essential to eliminate the Llanowar Elves immediately?
Just wondering if you can share your thought process a little bit. . .
thank you!
2 color decks are more consistent than 3 color decks, there is no way I can argue about that. But usually, 3 color decks are 'Stronger'. I still go back and forth between the 2. Right now focusing on Esper and just waiting to see what the meta does, I really feel like it is going to get a lot faster. Having access to one mana spot removal should help with that. Just my 2 cents.
But Patrick Chapin's lists look pretty sweet and with just a little bit of tweaking...
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
This is where I'm at now, feels good. After game 1 it's possible to transition to a more creature based deck if required while still keeping your control options open. Any comments are welcome. Also trying out 1 Slaughter the Strong main as a cheaper sweeper for all the big boys out there.
1x Arch of Orazca
3x Field of Ruin
4x Glacial Fortress
2x Ipnu Rivulet
4x Irrigated Farmland
4x Island
1x Memorial to Genius
5x Plains
1x Scavenger Grounds
Enchantment - 8
3x Cast Out
3x Seal Away
2x Search for Azcanta
1x Blink of an Eye
2x Censor
4x Disallow
2x Essence Scatter
4x Hieroglyphic Illumination
2x Negate
1x Pull from Tomorrow
2x Settle the Wreckage
Sorcery - 6
3x Approach of the Second Sun
2x Fumigate
1x Slaughter the Strong
Planeswalker - 3
3x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2x Forsake the Worldly
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
2x Negate
3x Regal Caracal
2x Sentinel Totem
1x Solemnity
1x Spell Pierce
2x Torrential Gearhulk
Cheers,
DC
It’s too bad she doesn’t protect herself: that and her high CMC (and RRR cost) might be reasons she won’t work, but as with all other walkers, she’ll be a lightning rod for attacks which can keep life total afloat.
Haven't seen that card before. That would be pretty sweet with a The Locust God on the board.
I like your build, a lot more than the pro's build that's for sure. Having said that I feel that Teferi main deck is not a good choice, the reason is that against aggro decks which are any type of Red decks, or the new Knight decks as well as R/G dinos you will be dead before Teferi comes out and even if he is out the opp won't care much about him and just run you over with creatures. I would test him as a 1 of or at most 2 of in the maindeck.
Second I like that you included Slaughter the strong and I think this should be a 2 of in the deck at least, there will be a lot of big creatures coming out fast including turn 4 Carnage Tyrant and we need this card to deal with him. I know settle deals with him as does fumigate but it's good to have a 3 mana answer as well.
I'm not sold on blink of an eye, because I run T. Gearhulk main deck so I'd rather run commit instead and also the 1 Pull from tomorrow is too situational and will not work at all in most games, and if you can cast it for a lot it means you're winning anyway.
I would also go up to 4 on Essence scatter, it will be a creature heavy meta so this spell is golden.
As for the sideboard, I don't know what's up with the 1 spell pierce and 1 solemnity but they're not so good as just 1 of. I also think now that T. Gearhulk should be main-decked instead of sideboarded in, because what will you side them in against? Against aggro they are too slow, against control they don't really do much but there's more effective cards to side in the mirror match than gearhulks.
I will be posting my decklist next week, after Dominaria is out and I can get some cards to playtest.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
With T. Gearhulk, by your statement, we shouldn't be running it at all (which I disagree with tbh)
If it's too slow maindeck and too slow and situational to side in, why not just run something else. I plan on dumping gearhulks for more spells as I will be running less instants and more enchantments like seal away.
I also feel forsake the worldly should be incorporated in the 75 somewhere. It is house to blow up opposing cast outs/bindings and is fairly decent vs vehicles.
And cycle is good too
UCHIHA ITACHI FLOWCHART
1) Genjutsu before battle. Did it work? if yes go to 3 If not go to 2
2) Tsukuyomi if worked go to 7 if not go to 4
3) Attack the confused enemy. If it worked, go to 7, if not go to 2
4) Ninjutsu. If it worked go to 7 if not go to 5
5) Amaterasu. If it worked go to 7, if not go to 6
6) Susano'o. If it worked go to 7, If not go to 8
7) Itachi wins
8) Itachi loses