I agree that opting for black is probably the better way to go. We could also mention grasp of darkness to deal with hazoret and glorybringer. However, I wonder if doomfall might be a better card in the main. We can either pick hazoret out of hand or wipe their board and force them to sacrifice hazoret. In non aggro matches, we still get the benefit of disruption. What do you think?
The problem with this is that we have to load up on cheap removals and reduce card draw and counter which will make this deck really weak against the rest of the field.
I think the counters do need to go as long as Red is 20-40% of the meta. You could potentially keep a couple of them for the late game or to hit a Hazoret, but counters are best when they are efficient answers. UU1 for Disallow is a losing strategy when you are countering 1 mana creatures...
Essence Extraction is perfect removal against RE as it nukes early game beats + gives that extra life-gain padding. Strong sideboard choice.
Fatal Push is relevant enough, and scales well enough, to MB/SB split, or just straight MB. Cheap, cheap removal.
Dark Intimations is a bomb in its own right: carves up opponents creatures (hits indestructible) plus shaves their hand, while cantripping and restoring one of those trades you made earlier. But it also sets up God-Pharaoh for a back-to-back 7 and 7 to face. Dealing 14 damage in two turns with GP is absurd.
Unsubstanciate is huge for slowing down the game. Big tempo disruption.
Hell, Censor is a good CS in this matchup.
Essence Extraction is still not good. BB cost is very difficult for this deck, especially if you are tyring to make 3 colors. Collective Brutality would be better as it kills a creature and has the drain option.
The best black removal spell in standard is more than likely Grasp of Darkness as it answers every threat in the red deck. I so wish Fatal Push was more relevant for standard, but without fetch lands, it's just not nearly as versatile as it is in modern. In standard, it's a speed bump and vs Red, you're removing a 1-mana threat for 1-mana - very fair...
Dark Intimations is too slow and while it may hit an indestructible Hazoret (or other), the opponent chooses. Wonder if they will hit sac the Village Messenger or the Hazoret? If you are casting this at 5 and it's 'working', you're already winning. If you follow this up with a 7-mana sorcery-speed walker and can go -4, -4 for 14 damage, you could've done just about anything...
Censor is only good if you're playing an unaware opponent. It happens, but usually not twice.
I agree that opting for black is probably the better way to go. We could also mention grasp of darkness to deal with hazoret and glorybringer. However, I wonder if doomfall might be a better card in the main. We can either pick hazoret out of hand or wipe their board and force them to sacrifice hazoret. In non aggro matches, we still get the benefit of disruption. What do you think?
Doomfall has the problem that it is their choice. I like the versatility, in general, but it's too slow in my opinion. Taking a card on turn 3 doesn't affect the board, so you would have to follow it up with a sweeper. Using it to remove a Hazoret after a sweeper requires an open turn from them, so I'm not sure that's going to be too reliably effective.
Censor is only good if you're playing an unaware opponent. It happens, but usually not twice.
RDW doesn't have the ability to really play around this though. They really want to go 1, 2, 3 or 2+1,4 for their first four turns. If you can censor anything, odds are it'll be a reasonably big road bump. This deck literally cannot afford to wait a turn for their entire game plan. Yeah people running regular decks play around censor, but RDW/RR specifically simply cannot play around it and you can and will light them up with it.
Censor is only good if you're playing an unaware opponent. It happens, but usually not twice.
RDW doesn't have the ability to really play around this though. They really want to go 1, 2, 3 or 2+1,4 for their first four turns. If you can censor anything, odds are it'll be a reasonably big road bump. This deck literally cannot afford to wait a turn for their entire game plan. Yeah people running regular decks play around censor, but RDW/RR specifically simply cannot play around it and you can and will light them up with it.
I understand that they won't play around it, but look at their board, even in the scenario you described... potentially 5 threats played in 4 turns and you countered 1, assuming you drew the Censor. You've likely taken 7-11 damage.
The red match-up, in my opinion, is about efficiency. Censor is bad here because we don't have time to cycle and countering a 1-2-mana creature for 2 mana is only 'fair' removal. If you are 'reliably' using this on 3- and 4-mana creatures, you are in good shape, but Essence Scatter is most likely better.
I'm working on a list with a more removal-heavy low-end to go with a more mid-range end-game. A couple of counters for mid-to-late game threats, but low reliance on them early.
Censor is only good if you're playing an unaware opponent. It happens, but usually not twice.
RDW doesn't have the ability to really play around this though. They really want to go 1, 2, 3 or 2+1,4 for their first four turns. If you can censor anything, odds are it'll be a reasonably big road bump. This deck literally cannot afford to wait a turn for their entire game plan. Yeah people running regular decks play around censor, but RDW/RR specifically simply cannot play around it and you can and will light them up with it.
I understand that they won't play around it, but look at their board, even in the scenario you described... potentially 5 threats played in 4 turns and you countered 1, assuming you drew the Censor. You've likely taken 7-11 damage.
The red match-up, in my opinion, is about efficiency. Censor is bad here because we don't have time to cycle and countering a 1-2-mana creature for 2 mana is only 'fair' removal. If you are 'reliably' using this on 3- and 4-mana creatures, you are in good shape, but Essence Scatter is most likely better.
I'm working on a list with a more removal-heavy low-end to go with a more mid-range end-game. A couple of counters for mid-to-late game threats, but low reliance on them early.
That's fair. I'm just pointing out it's not a dead card against our worst matchup. I can see this and essence scatter in with a bunch of removal as a decent deck. Ie turn 1 shock turn 2 censor turn 3 counterspell keeps us alive. You're definitely right that it's a lot better to be more mana efficient rather than trading evenly though, that's where I've been stumbling so far. I'd love to see your list when you put it together!
Collective Brutality has no place in a deck that doesn't intend on exploiting (self) discard. That's the whole gist behind making the card good. Its a house in a deck that can turn its downside into an advantage. That, unfortunately, is not the current iteration of this deck. The 2B cost shouldn't be too hard to pull off on essence
I think the "win more" argument is generally garbage. Games swing back and forth, and they're not over until one player concedes or hits 0. Dark Intimations is a card you build around. Your argument against it is a fine example of the Straw Man fallacy: build a weak argument to represent a topic, then knock it down. The reality of its effectiveness is much more nuanced.
May I remind you that for all your rebuttals and strong opinions, you're still losing. Why not try something someone else suggests instead of constantly leaning on your own understanding?
Collective Brutality has no place in a deck that doesn't intend on exploiting (self) discard. That's the whole gist behind making the card good. Its a house in a deck that can turn its downside into an advantage. That, unfortunately, is not the current iteration of this deck. The 2B cost shouldn't be too hard to pull off on essence.
If Essence extraction cost 2B then it'd be fine. But it costs 1BB and that's really unfeasible unless we commit REALLY heavily to black, which would likely make red a splash color.
Collective Brutality isn't GREAT, but it gives us 3 relevant modes that we can use all of. Is it ideal, of course not. No one's advocating adding 4 copies of Fiery Temper to wombo-combo our opponents with (I'm not advocating it either, I find it too unweildy to be feasible). But it can help, and I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow, even though you say it's got no place.
The core of science of any kind is experimentation. We need data to see what works and what doesn't. And that means people have to try various methods to see if they work or not, and not write off anything until we've tried it. You try your thing, I'll try mine. If your way is better, I'll be more than happy to switch, because at the end of the day finding a way to win is what matters.
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I like what you have to say, charm master. Lets be friends.
Good luck tomorrow. I suggest at least sideboarding several copies of Censor - its a house
P.s. saying CB has no place was perhaps worded too strongly. It is a good card, it just isn't reaching its full potential in this deck as it is now, and that rubs me the wrong way. Could be good. Try it, hopefully it works
I'm currently considering a more black-leaning version that plays defensively via censor/essence drain/-4-4 nuke etc... The idea is keep the field clean so that Dark Intimations forces a valuable sac & sets up a 14 dmg NB god-p nuke. Also, graveyard tricks are relatively safe to play against RR so collective brutality could fuel that. One. CB copied twice + nuke 14 is 20 damage. Incrediburst
I honestly can't see collective brutality as a good choice here. There almostb none cards we going to discard, -2/-2 seems "meeeh" and 2 life gain is a laugh.
I don't have a lot of expirience vs mono-r deck, but have a local tournament coming soon, so though to pul either 2 pulse of murasa or 2 blessed alligiance (don't know for sure, need some real field tests).
Pulse looks fair 6 life + cycle land back from graveyard and is really wannable to repeat with gearhulk. On another hand blessed alligiance gain as 4 AND it possible to kill hazoret in attack. Did anyone tested these two cards?
No one's advocating adding 4 copies of Fiery Temper to wombo-combo our opponents with
I am.
But going that route requires making other adjustments to the deck that you have to be aware of. If you're using Fiery Temper, you should also be using Bloodrage Brawlers. Between those and the Bomat Couriers, you have 8 options to get Madness for Fiery Temper (or for Falkenrath Gorgers although that comes up a lot less). Alternately you just don't play Fiery Temper at all, although I personally like having a little extra reach in burn damage for things like Kari Zev, a once-pumped Longtusk Cub, Winding Constrictor, Lord of the Accursed, Bygon Bishop, and Spell Queller.
Still playing my previously posted version of the deck earlier in the thread - it's U/R with G sprinkled in for Bristling Hydra, Attune from the Aether, Descendant's Path, and Greenbelt Rampager (dun laugh at my elephant!). The deck is doing very well although I have noticed the mono-red decks that are everywhere are a super tough match-up but beatable with the amount of removal & counters. 2 main deck Radiant Flames help a lot.
I am still looking for more Hour of Devastation & Amonkhet cards that I should be playing in the sideboard as I think I want to take out Manglehorn (relic of Marvel matchups)
So I went to FNM hoping to test the Ramunap red matchup.
Turns out of the 18 of us, all 18 were brewing various counter decks, and no one was actually PLAYING the deck we were all brewing to beat. So I never got the chance to get any real information about it. But I did get some insight through general gameplay:
--Glimmer of Genius was incredibly underwhelming. The energy we generate with it is almost always useless as we have nothing that really needs it. Either we need an energy sink like Dynavolt Tower or we need to play more copies of Hieroglyphic Illumination
--Censor feels great turns 2 and 3 but any later it feels terrible, because you never WANT to cycle it but casting it will never do anything.
--We really need to rethink how we attack creature heavy decks. I had 9 spot removal cards main (2 spray, 3 abrade, 4 harnessed lightning) and 2 more spray in the board. It never felt like enough, and it forces you to make plays like a sweltering suns on only 2 creatures and leave you open to any counterplay they topdeck. it feels like there just isn't enough removal to deal with everything before we can resolve a blocker. Which brings me to my next point:
--We NEED proactive cards we can play turns 3 and 4, casting EoT Illuminations or EoT supreme will won't let us win. I had thought that if we can trade 1-for-1 in the first three and four turns of the game we can turn the corner and win. While that might work against a deck that wants to play 1 creature every turn with all of its mana during that time, any other deck will eat us alive.
--Nicol Bolas was insane when he resolved. very few decks have a reasonable way to take him down, and his +2 can generate a lot of advantage. The problem of course is surviving to 7 mana. Never was in a position to test Collective Defiance, so jury's still out on that.
I'm stuck working during game day, but hopefully others here will be able to give better info.
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My Game Day did not go as well. 1-3 for the day. First match was against UB Zombies and I crushed that 2-0. Then I played the deck I had expected to play and which I had thought I had prepared for: Ramunap Red. Well, I lost 0-2. It just wasn't enough. 4 maindeck Kozileks Return wasn't enough. I do think there may be every reason to maindeck 4 Essence Scatter going forward. It's good against every deck except the mirror. Anyway, round 3 was against GB Constrictor. Hard to evaluate the 1-2 result. The games I lost I had to mulligan and still had mana problems both games. Round 4, I played against red again, and it was another 0-2. I had mana problems both games.
But I think that's the heart of the problem. Red can be stuck on 2 lands and still play great. When UR Control is stuck on 2 lands, it doesn't do anything.
Very well done. I've got a couple questions if you can answer them:
1) How did you attack Ramunap Red? Were you able to just grind them out into the midgame and take over, or were you flirting with death for a while and just dodge a kill?
2) I felt very much disappointed with glimmer of genius, and surprisingly pleased with Illuminations. How did you find them to work compared to each other?
3) Which of the sideboard cards gave you the most value as you brought them in? (in any matchup, not necessarily Ramunap Red)
Thanks for the response.
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So I would like to preface this post with a simple statement. I know this list is a pile and frankly I was tired at 4am this morning when I put this together. That being said I couldn't choose between Grixis control and Jeskai control splash black for Bolas...sooo this is what I came up with.
Yes, I know. there is no way I should have done well with this...yet somehow through 5 rounds of play, 3 top 8 matches I managed to place second at my stores Gameday. My 5 swiss matches were UW Spirits 2-0, Mono Black Zombies 2-1, Ramanaup Red 2-1, GB Energy 2-0, Grixis Control 2-0. My top 8 was GR Pummeler 2-1, Top 4 Ramanuap Red 2-0, Finals Sultai Reanimator 1-2.
The deck was a pain in the but the entire time since I had 4 colors to actually worry about but overall I wasnt unhappy with it. Going forward DONT DO THIS. Ill figure out which control shell I will play for tomorrow. Either Jeskai Control or Grixis. But for tonight. Im tired.
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"Wars may come and go but my soldiers, they are eternal."
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
I put this together at 1 am before gameday with cards in my binder.... annnnd I ended up winning with it. Most of the wierd numbers were that I just didn't have the cards.
0-2 Bu zombies.
2-1 Temur midrange: very close, he flooded in the final game
2-0 Turbo Fog: he almost killed me with fevered visions but he ran out of fogs and died.
2-0 BG midrange: he got mana screwed game one. I took control game two as well.
Top 4.
2-0 4 colour vechicals: game one he was stuck on three mana. Game 2 I was stuck but was able to control my way out of it. 3 magma spray for 3 scrappers.
Prize Split vs Temur midrange.
Supreme will was really good, counter and dig when I need it to be and glorybringer supprised me... I knew it was a good card but i didn't think it was a good control card... but it allowed me to pressure walkers and end the game fast if my opponent stumbled. Glorybringers with protection are scary.
Very well done. I've got a couple questions if you can answer them:
1) How did you attack Ramunap Red? Were you able to just grind them out into the midgame and take over, or were you flirting with death for a while and just dodge a kill?
2) I felt very much disappointed with glimmer of genius, and surprisingly pleased with Illuminations. How did you find them to work compared to each other?
3) Which of the sideboard cards gave you the most value as you brought them in? (in any matchup, not necessarily Ramunap Red)
Thanks for the response.
Thank you!
Unfortunately my english is not enough to express this normally. I'll try, but I never learnt english before, so sorry and pardon me!
1) This matchup is a real suffer and pain. In game 1, we need many luck. From game 2 we have lot of more chance. We need removals and creatures in the early turns. The first 4-5 turns are about survive at all cost, and always need an answer against Hazoret in T4. If we can stablize with normal lifetotal, then we'll need our treats fast. Because without heal, the time works for our opponent, and he can finish us with direct damage and deserts. I won 2-3 game with Disallowing my opponent's last Ramunap Ruins activation.
2) Glimmer of Genius is better for my sideboard (Shielded Aether Thief, Whirler Virtuoso) but I like Illumination too. It depend on the situation. 4-2 works well for me.
3) I liked my whole sideboard.
vs Red:
The Thief was way better than TiTi. Because of Flash, the opponent can't take advantage of "target can't block" ability. Save us from alot of damage and can give us some extra card. The Virtuoso is minimum of two body and a removal magnet, what is help for survive the first turns. The Dragonmaster can block some early threat or can help for stabilize in later game. And the Chandra's Defeat is a cheap removal vs Red.
vs. many other:
I liked Consign//Oblivion very much. The bounce spell has no need to explain. If something went trough the control-defense line, there is still a chance with bounce. And the Gearhulk can cast either half of Consign//Obivion. This card is better than Commit//Memory for me.
2) I felt very much disappointed with glimmer of genius, and surprisingly pleased with Illuminations. How did you find them to work compared to each other?
Not sure how you can be hating on Glimmer, as it's probably one of the core / best cards in the deck. if we count a scry as 1/2 card, then glimmer is draw 3 for 4 mana at instant speed, which by itself is already a good rate. Not only the, but the extra energy comes in real handy late game when dealing with troublesome creatures that grow large, like a Longtusk Cub or a delirium Grim Flayer. I can't imagine dropping the small energy package of 4 Harnessed and 4 glimmers, as it's saved me in more games than I can count (along with 4 hubs).
But energy synergies aside, glimmer + gearhulk is literally the core of blue based control right now. The scry 2 draw 2 is the engine that lets us churn through our decks, dig for what we need, and almost always lets us turn that corner favorably, with a grip of cards in hand, to actually win the game. That being said I do like to side out 1 against Ramunap, but it's still a core card that I'm always happy to draw, just maybe not multiples in certain MU's.
Glimmer, more than anything else, makes blue based control possible. When Dig Through Time rotated out blue based control fell off a cliff, and the best control deck around was the B/W planeswalker deck, but it was the Glimmer + Gearhulk that made blue based control possible, either Jeskai, U/B, or U/R, all of which have the same core of Glimmer + Gearhulk.
Should this deck still be considered Proven? At Pro Tour the best it put up was in the 33rd-64th bracket. At GP Minneapolis, it had only one entry in the top 16, and none in top 8.
I've been working on a 4-color version of this recently, and I've gotten it to a point that I'm really happy with. Took 1st at FNM and then went 6-1-1 at Game Day, with my only loss being in the finals vs. an R/G Eldrazi Ramp deck that I beat in the swiss. The shell I started with was the 4-color deck that won the SCG open a few weeks ago. My aim has been to lower the curve a bit, and make it more effective against aggro decks. This means (among other things) removing slower cards like Dovin Baan and Fumigate, and replacing them with Declaration in Stone and Radiant Flames. Sadly, I haven't been able to adequately test against mono-red, which was one of my main targets, so I can't say for sure how that matchup is, but I think this deck should be able to address it better than straight U/R, which doesn't have clean answers for Hazoret. Outside of the one ramp matchup, all of my other rounds have felt extremely lopsided in favor of control.
I think the counters do need to go as long as Red is 20-40% of the meta. You could potentially keep a couple of them for the late game or to hit a Hazoret, but counters are best when they are efficient answers. UU1 for Disallow is a losing strategy when you are countering 1 mana creatures...
Essence Extraction is still not good. BB cost is very difficult for this deck, especially if you are tyring to make 3 colors. Collective Brutality would be better as it kills a creature and has the drain option.
The best black removal spell in standard is more than likely Grasp of Darkness as it answers every threat in the red deck. I so wish Fatal Push was more relevant for standard, but without fetch lands, it's just not nearly as versatile as it is in modern. In standard, it's a speed bump and vs Red, you're removing a 1-mana threat for 1-mana - very fair...
Dark Intimations is too slow and while it may hit an indestructible Hazoret (or other), the opponent chooses. Wonder if they will hit sac the Village Messenger or the Hazoret? If you are casting this at 5 and it's 'working', you're already winning. If you follow this up with a 7-mana sorcery-speed walker and can go -4, -4 for 14 damage, you could've done just about anything...
Censor is only good if you're playing an unaware opponent. It happens, but usually not twice.
Doomfall has the problem that it is their choice. I like the versatility, in general, but it's too slow in my opinion. Taking a card on turn 3 doesn't affect the board, so you would have to follow it up with a sweeper. Using it to remove a Hazoret after a sweeper requires an open turn from them, so I'm not sure that's going to be too reliably effective.
RDW doesn't have the ability to really play around this though. They really want to go 1, 2, 3 or 2+1,4 for their first four turns. If you can censor anything, odds are it'll be a reasonably big road bump. This deck literally cannot afford to wait a turn for their entire game plan. Yeah people running regular decks play around censor, but RDW/RR specifically simply cannot play around it and you can and will light them up with it.
I understand that they won't play around it, but look at their board, even in the scenario you described... potentially 5 threats played in 4 turns and you countered 1, assuming you drew the Censor. You've likely taken 7-11 damage.
The red match-up, in my opinion, is about efficiency. Censor is bad here because we don't have time to cycle and countering a 1-2-mana creature for 2 mana is only 'fair' removal. If you are 'reliably' using this on 3- and 4-mana creatures, you are in good shape, but Essence Scatter is most likely better.
I'm working on a list with a more removal-heavy low-end to go with a more mid-range end-game. A couple of counters for mid-to-late game threats, but low reliance on them early.
That's fair. I'm just pointing out it's not a dead card against our worst matchup. I can see this and essence scatter in with a bunch of removal as a decent deck. Ie turn 1 shock turn 2 censor turn 3 counterspell keeps us alive. You're definitely right that it's a lot better to be more mana efficient rather than trading evenly though, that's where I've been stumbling so far. I'd love to see your list when you put it together!
I think the "win more" argument is generally garbage. Games swing back and forth, and they're not over until one player concedes or hits 0. Dark Intimations is a card you build around. Your argument against it is a fine example of the Straw Man fallacy: build a weak argument to represent a topic, then knock it down. The reality of its effectiveness is much more nuanced.
May I remind you that for all your rebuttals and strong opinions, you're still losing. Why not try something someone else suggests instead of constantly leaning on your own understanding?
If Essence extraction cost 2B then it'd be fine. But it costs 1BB and that's really unfeasible unless we commit REALLY heavily to black, which would likely make red a splash color.
Collective Brutality isn't GREAT, but it gives us 3 relevant modes that we can use all of. Is it ideal, of course not. No one's advocating adding 4 copies of Fiery Temper to wombo-combo our opponents with (I'm not advocating it either, I find it too unweildy to be feasible). But it can help, and I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow, even though you say it's got no place.
The core of science of any kind is experimentation. We need data to see what works and what doesn't. And that means people have to try various methods to see if they work or not, and not write off anything until we've tried it. You try your thing, I'll try mine. If your way is better, I'll be more than happy to switch, because at the end of the day finding a way to win is what matters.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Good luck tomorrow. I suggest at least sideboarding several copies of Censor - its a house
P.s. saying CB has no place was perhaps worded too strongly. It is a good card, it just isn't reaching its full potential in this deck as it is now, and that rubs me the wrong way. Could be good. Try it, hopefully it works
I don't have a lot of expirience vs mono-r deck, but have a local tournament coming soon, so though to pul either 2 pulse of murasa or 2 blessed alligiance (don't know for sure, need some real field tests).
Pulse looks fair 6 life + cycle land back from graveyard and is really wannable to repeat with gearhulk. On another hand blessed alligiance gain as 4 AND it possible to kill hazoret in attack. Did anyone tested these two cards?
I am.
But going that route requires making other adjustments to the deck that you have to be aware of. If you're using Fiery Temper, you should also be using Bloodrage Brawlers. Between those and the Bomat Couriers, you have 8 options to get Madness for Fiery Temper (or for Falkenrath Gorgers although that comes up a lot less). Alternately you just don't play Fiery Temper at all, although I personally like having a little extra reach in burn damage for things like Kari Zev, a once-pumped Longtusk Cub, Winding Constrictor, Lord of the Accursed, Bygon Bishop, and Spell Queller.
I am still looking for more Hour of Devastation & Amonkhet cards that I should be playing in the sideboard as I think I want to take out Manglehorn (relic of Marvel matchups)
Turns out of the 18 of us, all 18 were brewing various counter decks, and no one was actually PLAYING the deck we were all brewing to beat. So I never got the chance to get any real information about it. But I did get some insight through general gameplay:
--Glimmer of Genius was incredibly underwhelming. The energy we generate with it is almost always useless as we have nothing that really needs it. Either we need an energy sink like Dynavolt Tower or we need to play more copies of Hieroglyphic Illumination
--Censor feels great turns 2 and 3 but any later it feels terrible, because you never WANT to cycle it but casting it will never do anything.
--We really need to rethink how we attack creature heavy decks. I had 9 spot removal cards main (2 spray, 3 abrade, 4 harnessed lightning) and 2 more spray in the board. It never felt like enough, and it forces you to make plays like a sweltering suns on only 2 creatures and leave you open to any counterplay they topdeck. it feels like there just isn't enough removal to deal with everything before we can resolve a blocker. Which brings me to my next point:
--We NEED proactive cards we can play turns 3 and 4, casting EoT Illuminations or EoT supreme will won't let us win. I had thought that if we can trade 1-for-1 in the first three and four turns of the game we can turn the corner and win. While that might work against a deck that wants to play 1 creature every turn with all of its mana during that time, any other deck will eat us alive.
--Nicol Bolas was insane when he resolved. very few decks have a reasonable way to take him down, and his +2 can generate a lot of advantage. The problem of course is surviving to 7 mana. Never was in a position to test Collective Defiance, so jury's still out on that.
I'm stuck working during game day, but hopefully others here will be able to give better info.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Today I won 2 Game Day at my LGS.
Game Day 1 - 4-0 (vs Ramunap Red, U/W Spirit, R/G Ramp, White Monument)
Game Day 2 - 4-0 (vs Ramunap Red, White Monument, R/G Ramp, Black Eldrazi)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalker:
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Spell:
2x Abrade
3x Magma Spray
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Sweltering Suns
2x Hour of Devastation
3x Censor
3x Supreme Will
2x Disallow
2x Essence Scatter
1x Negate
4x Glimmer of Genius
2x Hieroglyphic Illumination
4x Wandering Fumarole
4x Spirebluff Canal
1x Canyon Slough
1x Fetid Pools
1x Sunken Hollow
4x Aether Hub
6x Island
4x Mountain
Side:
2x Dragonmaster Outcast
2x Whirler Virtuoso
3x Shielded Aether Thief
2x Chandra's Defeat
1x Jace's Defeat
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Summary Dismissal
1x Consign//Oblivion
But I think that's the heart of the problem. Red can be stuck on 2 lands and still play great. When UR Control is stuck on 2 lands, it doesn't do anything.
Very well done. I've got a couple questions if you can answer them:
1) How did you attack Ramunap Red? Were you able to just grind them out into the midgame and take over, or were you flirting with death for a while and just dodge a kill?
2) I felt very much disappointed with glimmer of genius, and surprisingly pleased with Illuminations. How did you find them to work compared to each other?
3) Which of the sideboard cards gave you the most value as you brought them in? (in any matchup, not necessarily Ramunap Red)
Thanks for the response.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
3 mountain
3 island
2 swamp
1 plains
4 aether hub
3 evolving wilds
2 wandering fumerole
4 spirebluff canal
2 fetid pools
2 irrigated farmland
Multicolor
1 nicol bolas, god-pharaoh
1 nahiri, the harbringer
2 the scarab god
White
1 linvala the preserver
2 cast out
2 collective brutality
1 doomfall
1 ob nixilis, reignited
Red
2 abrade
2 harnessed lightning
2 magma spray
2 kozileks return
2 hour of devastation
Blue
2 essence scatter
2 negate
3 glimmer of genius
1 pull from tomorrow
1 torrential gearhulk
3 supreme will
2 censor
1 battle at the bridge
2 kalitas, traitor of ghet
1 doomfall
1 forsake the worldly
2 blessed alliance
1 sweltering suns
2 chandras defeat
1 jaces defeat
1 negate
1 dispel
1 summary dismissal
1 jace, unraveler of secrets
Yes, I know. there is no way I should have done well with this...yet somehow through 5 rounds of play, 3 top 8 matches I managed to place second at my stores Gameday. My 5 swiss matches were UW Spirits 2-0, Mono Black Zombies 2-1, Ramanaup Red 2-1, GB Energy 2-0, Grixis Control 2-0. My top 8 was GR Pummeler 2-1, Top 4 Ramanuap Red 2-0, Finals Sultai Reanimator 1-2.
The deck was a pain in the but the entire time since I had 4 colors to actually worry about but overall I wasnt unhappy with it. Going forward DONT DO THIS. Ill figure out which control shell I will play for tomorrow. Either Jeskai Control or Grixis. But for tonight. Im tired.
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
2 Glorybringer
2 Torrential gearhulk
Sorceries
2 Sweltering suns
2 Hour of devestation
Instants
4 Abrade
4 Harnessed lightning
4 Censor
2 Essence scatter
1 Pull from tomorrow
2 Disallow
2 Supreme will
4 Hieroglyphic illumination
3 Glimmer of genius
1 Chandra, torch of defiance
Lands
4 Wandering fumerole
4 Spirebluff canal
4 Aether hub
8 island
5 mountain
4 Magma spray
2 Chandra's defeat
1 Crook of condemation
3 Negate
3 Thing in the ice
1 Chandra, torch of defiance
1 Metallugic summonings
0-2 Bu zombies.
2-1 Temur midrange: very close, he flooded in the final game
2-0 Turbo Fog: he almost killed me with fevered visions but he ran out of fogs and died.
2-0 BG midrange: he got mana screwed game one. I took control game two as well.
Top 4.
2-0 4 colour vechicals: game one he was stuck on three mana. Game 2 I was stuck but was able to control my way out of it. 3 magma spray for 3 scrappers.
Prize Split vs Temur midrange.
Supreme will was really good, counter and dig when I need it to be and glorybringer supprised me... I knew it was a good card but i didn't think it was a good control card... but it allowed me to pressure walkers and end the game fast if my opponent stumbled. Glorybringers with protection are scary.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Thank you!
Unfortunately my english is not enough to express this normally. I'll try, but I never learnt english before, so sorry and pardon me!
1) This matchup is a real suffer and pain. In game 1, we need many luck. From game 2 we have lot of more chance. We need removals and creatures in the early turns. The first 4-5 turns are about survive at all cost, and always need an answer against Hazoret in T4. If we can stablize with normal lifetotal, then we'll need our treats fast. Because without heal, the time works for our opponent, and he can finish us with direct damage and deserts. I won 2-3 game with Disallowing my opponent's last Ramunap Ruins activation.
2) Glimmer of Genius is better for my sideboard (Shielded Aether Thief, Whirler Virtuoso) but I like Illumination too. It depend on the situation. 4-2 works well for me.
3) I liked my whole sideboard.
vs Red:
The Thief was way better than TiTi. Because of Flash, the opponent can't take advantage of "target can't block" ability. Save us from alot of damage and can give us some extra card. The Virtuoso is minimum of two body and a removal magnet, what is help for survive the first turns. The Dragonmaster can block some early threat or can help for stabilize in later game. And the Chandra's Defeat is a cheap removal vs Red.
vs. many other:
I liked Consign//Oblivion very much. The bounce spell has no need to explain. If something went trough the control-defense line, there is still a chance with bounce. And the Gearhulk can cast either half of Consign//Obivion. This card is better than Commit//Memory for me.
Not sure how you can be hating on Glimmer, as it's probably one of the core / best cards in the deck. if we count a scry as 1/2 card, then glimmer is draw 3 for 4 mana at instant speed, which by itself is already a good rate. Not only the, but the extra energy comes in real handy late game when dealing with troublesome creatures that grow large, like a Longtusk Cub or a delirium Grim Flayer. I can't imagine dropping the small energy package of 4 Harnessed and 4 glimmers, as it's saved me in more games than I can count (along with 4 hubs).
But energy synergies aside, glimmer + gearhulk is literally the core of blue based control right now. The scry 2 draw 2 is the engine that lets us churn through our decks, dig for what we need, and almost always lets us turn that corner favorably, with a grip of cards in hand, to actually win the game. That being said I do like to side out 1 against Ramunap, but it's still a core card that I'm always happy to draw, just maybe not multiples in certain MU's.
Glimmer, more than anything else, makes blue based control possible. When Dig Through Time rotated out blue based control fell off a cliff, and the best control deck around was the B/W planeswalker deck, but it was the Glimmer + Gearhulk that made blue based control possible, either Jeskai, U/B, or U/R, all of which have the same core of Glimmer + Gearhulk.
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Supreme Will
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Disallow
2 Void Shatter
2 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
3 Harnessed Lightning
3 Aether Meltdown
2 Abrade
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Hour of Devastation
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Aether Hub
8 Island
1 Canyon Slough
1 Fetid Pools
4 Mountain
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
3 Imprisoned in the Moon
2 Negate
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Summary Dismissal
2 Dispel
1 Hour of Devastation
3 Shielded Aether Thief
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Linvala, the Preserver
Planeswalkers (3)
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Removal (13)
2 Magma Spray
2 Abrade
3 Harnessed Lightning
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Radiant Flames
2 Cast Out
Counters/Card Draw (14)
2 Censor
2 Essence Scatter
2 Disallow
2 Supreme Will
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Spirebluff Canal
3 Inspiring Vantage
3 Irrigated Farmland
2 Port Town
1 Fetid Pools
4 Aether Hub
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Magma Spray
1 Chandra's Defeat
2 Glorybringer
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Fumigate
1 Forsake the Worldly
1 Crook of Condemnation