Jun Ishihara went 8-2 (the same or better than 5 of the people in the top 8) in the standard portion of Pro Tour Aether Revolt, but placed 34th because of a poor limited performance. Because of this, his very sweet control deck has been overlooked by nearly everyone.
Inspired by this, I threw the deck together and have been playing and tweaking it since the PT. It plays all of the very powerful black removal spells which give it an edge against aggressive decks while turning the corner quickly all while generating a ton of card advantage. I have been tuning it to be better at beating Mardu and GB, but it has great tools against Saheeli, other combo decks, and control as well. Luis Gobern just took a similar version to a top 32 at GP Utrecht as well. The drawbacks are that the mana can sometimes be awkward and sometimes you can get stuck with clunky draws with too many enablers and not enough removal and gas. That said, it has the tools to beat anything and has draws that can beat other deck's nut draws. It has the best mana of any 3 color deck in the format and the best late game of any deck out there right now and has all of the best tools to survive until then.
Card Choices
Traverse the Ulvenwald This powerful 1 mana card has even started seeing top level play in Modern. It allows you to play fewer lands essentially playing as 4 extra lands of any color while doubling as the best creature for the situation in your deck late. This is the main reason to play this deck over any other and gives you better topdecks late game than any other deck.
Vessel of Nascency This is mainly here to get delirium, but does help fix mana, find threats, and gives your gearhulks better options as well.
Grapple with the Past Yet another card that helps to fix your mana early, this also helps with delirium and serves to get back your threats later and can help loop your Torrential Gearhulks in the late game to power through a ton of removal.
Glimmer of Genius This is a lot better than just an Inspiration. While we don't have any ways other than Aether Hub to use the Energy, having scry 2 tacked on to your draw spell is very powerful and while it's been seeing play, I think many underestimate just how good this card is.
Fatal PushThis is by far the best removal spell printed in a long time and while Revolt is harder to trigger in standard than older formats, this deck has many ways to do it.
Grasp of Darkness Another very strong piece of spot removal, BB makes harder to cast at times.
Negate An efficient counterspell, if somewhat narrow.
Disallow Slightly less efficient, but this thing hits everything and the kitchen sink. The best counterspell printed in a long time.
Murder Not as powerful or efficient as the other removal spells, but the initial list of the deck didn't have many ways of dealing with larger creatures which showed up when playing against GB and other gearhulk decks. This helps fill that hole.
To the Slaughter One of the benefits of the delirium package, this answers Gideon very cleanly as long as you have delirium and cast it when he isn't a creature. This also is a solid answer for Bristling Hydra and large creatures as long as you can use your other removal to take the rest of their stuff out.
Overwhelming Denial While this is good at winning counter battles vs other control and combo decks, it is much weaker in the current aggro metagame.
Liliana, the Last Hope She is very powerful in this list. There are a surprising number of 1 toughness creatures seeing play right now and she is yet another way to get back our creatures late, but one of her best modes is soaking up a bunch of damage while helping to contribute to delirium.
Walking Ballista Great at dealing with many early threats and also enabling delirium, it scales upwards into a huge threat in the late game. This protects against the Saheeli combo and can also pair with Grasp, Lili, Flaying Tendrils, and Yahenni's Expertise to take down bigger creatures. It offers so much versatility.
Tireless Tracker He is nearly always a 2 for 1 and will generate a huge card advantage and threat if left unchecked.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow Another payoff of delirium, nothing does a better job of gumming up the board and outside of countering it, she's very hard to answer cleanly while also being very mana efficient.
Noxious Gearhulk A nice 1 of tutor target, this is a great way of killing a big threat or taking something out and then presenting an evasive clock.
i've been following this deck idea and i can't believe it hasn't drawn more attention and interest. awesome work on the primer. hopefully, some good discussion will start about this deck.
I tried cutting 2 Vessel and a Disallow for 3 Walking Ballistas tonight and they were fantastic. Very good early at getting delirium while picking off early drops, great in the mid and late game. The deck was manhandling 4C Saheeli and GB. My results vs Mardu were mixed, but in both of the games I lost, it was due to not having the right color of mana or needing a 6th land for many turns and just not getting it where I otherwise would have won.
Updated my list. It's been doing very well against everything except Temur Tower. Additional Kalitas and Ishkana have shorn up the Mardu matchup to the point of being very favorable and I'm 6-0 in matches vs 4C Saheeli.
How do we see updating our list once Amonkhet comes out? I put together a (very) rough list here, it's much closer to midrange than control at present (though I wouldn't complain about swinging back to control once the meta settles down). Would love some feedback and general thoughts on Amonkhet, thanks!
I know someone took Sultai Delirium to Atlanta this weekend. Hoping we see a decklist and some results from that. Here's the build I'm hoping to test soon at my next FNM. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-03-17-sultai/
I don't have Premium so I can't read the whole article myself but I really like the idea of using cycling to build delirium rather that self mill. I kept two Grapple with the Past in my build because I like the extra creature recursion and is a good Gearhulk target.
There were 5 Sultai Delirium pilots that made top 64 at SCG Atlanta although there were really two versions of the deck represented with small variations from list to list.
I was on Sultai Delirium before Emrakul got banned, with the CopyCat ban shaking things up again I decided it was a good time to ditch Temur Tower and get back to playing what I actually enjoy. The Braatz list is really a goofy G/B deck with Rogue Refiner, which is weird since it doesn't even make good use of the energy component. Steiner's list is the proper shell imo, it just needs more tuning. I've been testing a similar list, here are some of my findings:
1) Walking Ballista isn't very good without Verdurous Gearhulk and Winding Constrictor now that there's no CopyCat to ward against. I found I was often paying 4-6 mana just to trade for a 2-drop with it, and it doesn't play well with the new Lili either. I had two to start and cut them both, there are better mana sinks and Delirium enablers available.
2) Death's Majesty seems better than Last Hope (you wouldn't know it from their price tags). It does a better job of punishing control players for tapping out (since they can't counter your zombies) and even though the ultimate doesn't win the game, it's very easy to reach and gives us a hard sweeper that's otherwise unavailable in these colors.
3) I didn't like Manglehorn in the main, it's pretty embarrassing when it doesn't have good targets. Dissenter's Deliverance is definitely the better hedge.
4) Spring // Mind counts as two card types for Delirium and functions similarly to Hieroglyphic Illumination. The sorcery speed on the front is a real cost, but you can also use the draw without a Gearhulk. I'm liking a single copy alongside two Illuminations, I'm not as high on Glimmer of Genius without any ways to utilize the energy and it's also rare that I want to pay full cost for any of these draw spells.
5) We will need to figure out some good answers for the R/G Gods deck, specifically Rhonas since we can answer Hazoret with Grasp of Darkness. Commit // Memory is too expensive to load up on and To the Slaughter isn't reliable. I've just been slogging through on the back of Liliana and Ishkanah pumping out tokens but it's messy.
I like Confiscation Coup, although that pushes me back toward Glimmer and an energy subtheme. I added second copies of To the Slaughter and Commit // Memory to the main, in part by cutting Murder. Commit, Never, and Noxious Gearhulk do a decent job of cleaning up whatever Grasp/Push can't hit.
FYI Approach of the Second Sun triggers even if the first copy was countered, which is obnoxious. Between that and all the Ulamarvel decks I'm loading up on Lost Legacy in the sideboard, I might even go up to three copies. It's actually good against a lot of the new decks cropping up - Rhonas, Bristling Hydra, Cryptbreaker, Prized Amalgam, Drake Haven, all major headaches and perfect targets.
I tried out the new Nissa in my sideboard against control after getting wrecked by it. I couldn't make good use of the -0 and the +2 doesn't really do anything, so it's ultimate or bust. I think I'd run it if I had Grim Flayers to help manipulate my draws but for now I'm trying Kefnet the Mindful instead. I like that I can tutor for it with Traverse and bring it back with Lili as needed, although it's possible it should just be Sphinx of the Final Word.
You can certainly tune a list to beat those two decks. I haven't been playing Sultai much lately, mostly because I get bored from playing the same deck all the time, even if I'm doing well with it. Negates and Yahenni's Expertise are good against both decks and Kalitas can help deal with the zombies that would come back.
Flaying Tendrils seems like a good choice against Zombies. Too bad it doesn't kill the lord, but it exiles Relentless Dead, Dread Wanderer and Scroungers.
Really interested as well if anyone is successful running the Sultai list with the current meta after the Pro Tour. Maybe put Kalitas mainboard already and 3of Yahenni's Expertise sideboard?
I switched to Temur Marvel for a bit (it was too good not to play) but the prices on Ulamog/Marvel are dropping quickly, I figured it was time to switch back before it gets banned. Someone took down a couple small tournaments with this list and it has been performing well for me too. http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD30260S/ I haven't played any rated matches yet but I had an easy time against Cryptolith Rites, New Perspectives, and Temur Marvel (could have been the pilot). I'm not 100% sold on Grapple With the Past over Vessel of Nascency but it does work better with Gearhulk.
I don't think this deck is particularly well positioned in the current metagame (it's too fair) but it would gain a lot from a Marvel ban. It doesn't ever steal wins but if you work for it I think you can get close to 50/50 against most of the field.
Looks like I made the right call and didn't lose a ton of MTGO tix on that banning! Some things will need to change with Marvel gone though. I'm not sure if the Censor package is better than just running Grim Flayers now, although it will be a while before I can rebuy and test them. I haven't seen any Ulamog ramp yet so I'm cutting the Summary Dismissals from the sideboard. The new threat that goes over the top of us is Approach of the Second Sun. Negate and Lost Legacy are pretty good against it, but I'm testing an Invasive Surgery to really catch them by surprise (should work well with the Gearhulks too). I'm hoping it will have more targets than Lost Legacy so I don't have to run it >.<
Sultai Delirium has put up a few decent finishes and some pros are tinkering with it, I've been watching Brennan DeCandio's stream and he's splashing blue just for The Scarab God and some sideboard Negates. Scarab God definitely fits the theme and has a high power level, it really shines against control and graveyard recursion. It's unfortunate that it competes with big Lili at 5cmc when they work so well together (zombie synergy), I had to swap one of my copies for a 3cmc Lili to keep my curve reasonable. We got some other new toys too:
Supreme Will is easier to cast than Disallow and I like that the other mode can replace Glimmer of Genius as a proactive draw spell to flashback with Gearhulk. It frees up a couple slots and it was hard to take a turn off for Glimmer against aggro anyway. I still like one hard counter to flashback late in the game so I'm running a 2/1 split, much like my 3/1 Censor/Negate split.
Champion of Wits was great in testing, I could set myself up for Lili into Ishkanah on turn five which is bonkers. The eternalize was gas in the late game too. I cut it because I'm not sure this deck makes good use of the 2/1 body the way emerge does, and if I want to get stuff in the graveyard Mindwrack Demon is probably better overall while also insulating Lili from Glorybringer. If I go all in on reanimation or want to maindeck sweepers, I will definitely revisit this guy.
Bontu's Last Reckoning is the hard sweeper I needed to get out of unwinnable situations, but the drawback is pretty awkward against aggro decks. It's definitely not something I want to be doing multiple times a game, so I'm liking one copy with two Yahenni's Expertise. It's great against G/B and Temur midrange and still an acceptable sweeper against tokens/zombies.
Doomfall is something I never feel particularly great casting, but the flexibility is why it's worth a couple sideboard slots. It also saves you from having to run something like Hour of Glory to deal with the new gods.
Nimble Obstructionist has a lot of potential with 3cmc Lili and Grapple, I'm not sure there are enough important targets but I'm giving it a shot. You can snipe planeswalkers with it too, so it might keep a spot just on flexibility.
Dreamstealer eats a counterspell, then rises from the dead as an uncounterable hand destroyer. It's a pretty huge payoff if you get there, but I'm still not 100% on this one.
Hey guys! Pretty interested in coming back to the Brood, just had some questions about the meta and the lists posted.
1) What's the viability looking like post-Marvel ban?
Looks like this incarnation of Standard now that Marvel is out will be control-friendly, with decks such as Grixis, UW Flash and this one.I don't wish to win any protours or anything, but I want to pilot a deck substantially better than my brews so I can hone my player skills before going back to brewing.
2) How necessary is Torrential Gearhulk and how likely do you think it is to get banned?
The card is expensive as hell. I'll have a friend lend me some for this Saturday's showdown, but thinking long term I don't want to invest big in 2 copies if they're going to get banned soon.
3) Are you finding the deck to be inconsistent with so many 1-ofs 2-ofs?
I understand the role of Traverse the Ulvenwald, and I personally like to count 2 of them as one extra card copy, but even so, is it consistent enough without them? The bane of toolboxy decklists is that you seldom draw what you need in a tight spot.
I think it's an amazing early turn card, but I never see it in any lists. Am I overrating the crap out of the card?
That said, I specifically had some questions about the list posted above.
Sultai Delirium has put up a few decent finishes and some pros are tinkering with it, I've been watching Brennan DeCandio's stream and he's splashing blue just for The Scarab God and some sideboard Negates. Scarab God definitely fits the theme and has a high power level, it really shines against control and graveyard recursion. It's unfortunate that it competes with big Lili at 5cmc when they work so well together (zombie synergy), I had to swap one of my copies for a 3cmc Lili to keep my curve reasonable. We got some other new toys too:
Looks fine in a control heavy meta, but is the Scarab God really what you want to draw in a desperate situation? I'm sure there's better topdecks out there than it, it also takes a while to get going. I don't doubt its resilience if it resolves tho.
Champion of Wits was great in testing, I could set myself up for Lili into Ishkanah on turn five which is bonkers. The eternalize was gas in the late game too. I cut it because I'm not sure this deck makes good use of the 2/1 body the way emerge does, and if I want to get stuff in the graveyard Mindwrack Demon is probably better overall while also insulating Lili from Glorybringer. If I go all in on reanimation or want to maindeck sweepers, I will definitely revisit this guy.
You mention Mindwrack Demon as a good card but I don't see it in your list. What kind of deck would you have to run to make it viable? Because on paper, Champion of Wits looks ten times better.
Bontu's Last Reckoning is the hard sweeper I needed to get out of unwinnable situations, but the drawback is pretty awkward against aggro decks. It's definitely not something I want to be doing multiple times a game, so I'm liking one copy with two Yahenni's Expertise. It's great against G/B and Temur midrange and still an acceptable sweeper against tokens/zombies.
You're running them SB tho: do you think the main package in these lists is good enough to justify sending the sweepers to side?
Doomfall is something I never feel particularly great casting, but the flexibility is why it's worth a couple sideboard slots. It also saves you from having to run something like Hour of Glory to deal with the new gods.
I love the card, and have seen it being used in a couple decks back at my LGS. I know we'd all prefer the Khans of Tarkir charms, but I think cards like this are the closest we'll get in a while. I'd say keep versatility in the MB and the hate in the SB.
Nimble Obstructionist has a lot of potential with 3cmc Lili and Grapple, I'm not sure there are enough important targets but I'm giving it a shot. You can snipe planeswalkers with it too, so it might keep a spot just on flexibility.
Been thinking about it myself, and it's one of the spoiled cards that made me consider blue again (was previously rolling Abzan Delirium with mediocre results). It acts as a counter for some of the main offenders in the format, such as Gearhulks, Chandras, Lilianas, and Kirans. I've been in situations vs UW Flash where my whole lifeline is Noxious Gearhulk, they counter its trigger and I die. I think I'll want 2 copies in my list.
Dreamstealer eats a counterspell, then rises from the dead as an uncounterable hand destroyer. It's a pretty huge payoff if you get there, but I'm still not 100% on this one.
I don't like it. Champion of Wits gives you cards and Nimble Obstructionist gives you options, whereas this guy gives you a lame creature that no one will leave alive. In a control shell, leaving yourself open to an obviously better T3 drop from them just to drop this guy and MAYBE extract a card before it dies is not something I'd like to do.
Thanks for your time guys, and hope we can get some HoD discussion going!
It's a midrange board control deck with a nearly unbeatable endgame, I think of it as a level up from traditional G/B delirium control since instead of walking a Grim Flayer into a Fatal Push on turn two, I can hold up Censor and stop stuff like Oketra's Monument, Fevered visions, etc. that are otherwise hard to remove and often steal game one. I don't think there is any risk of Torrential Gearhulk getting banned, it's powerful but fair. It is what allows me to run so many singleton spells, basically the flashback effect turns all the milling into digging and my graveyard becomes an additional toolbox that I can tutor from. Negate is too specific to load up on in the main deck so the Censors are Negates 2-4 in game one. Disallow can be difficult to cast so Supreme Will is better in the early game, acting as Disallows 2-3. Having a copy of both Disallow and Negate gives me hard counters to flashback in the late game when Censor and Supreme Will are worthless. When you consider the counterspells as a 4-of and 3-of, the deck does a pretty consistent U/B draw-go control impression until you can cast the big threats/engines.
Overall I think the deck has enough tutoring and tools to compete with anything if tuned correctly but its inability to race (no 2-drop threats) makes New Perspectives backed by Dispel very hard to beat without dedicating sideboard slots to Lost Legacy. As for Harsh Scrutiny, I feel like the fourth Fatal Push would be better and I haven't been needing it. Doomfall is a more expensive version but it's not dead in the late game and it deals with gods, so that role is somewhat covered anyway.
Regarding The Scarab God, Mindwrack Demon, Champion of Wits, etc., I was initially heading toward a deck that just wanted to drop Liliana, Death's Majesty on turn 5 and reanimate Ishkanah, Grafwidow or a Gearhulk. I resisted even testing the God but I faced it in a mirror match and it wrecked me. For starters it's almost impossible to answer (I have since made room for an Hour of Glory in my sideboard), and even though the reanimate effect costs mana you can use it multiple times in the same turn instead of every 2-3 turns. Plus you can tutor for it and it exiles annoying stuff, it's just too good not to play. That decision pushed me away from relying on big Lili since the 5cmc slot is crowded and I had to cut one, which means I'm less concerned with getting creatures into my graveyard to cheat out right away. I do think the demon is well positioned, especially against Glorybringer, but I only had room for one and it seemed like a weird singleton (I don't think I'd ever tutor for it). I've got Kalitas in that slot instead, normally he's a sideboard card but his synergy with Lili and Scarab God pushed him over the top. Champion is excellent but slow, I don't think you can take time off to cast it on curve unless the payoff is big - in the end I opted for less pseudo-combo in favor of raw power and access to more tools.
I agree that Dreamstealer seems like average removal bait but a lot of pros are trying it out, it's definitely nasty when it hits...I could see it working in a control mirror where removal gets boarded out. Nobody is boarding out all their removal against this deck so I don't think it's any good. Nimble Obstructionist is weird, there aren't a lot of great targets for it (you'd rather just counter the whole Gearhulk, for example) but I really like the design. I think it probably needs more Liliana, the Last Hope and Grapple with the Past to spam it instead of answering some specific thing. As for sweepers, Ishkanah is basically a sweeper that isn't dead against control or combo decks so I lean on that in game one and flood the board with zombies/spiders. I play 100% on MTGO so I face a wide range of decks, if I knew I was in a metagame full of zombies and U/W Monument I would definitely move a sweeper or two to the main. Btw, if I did run sweepers in the main I would probably want Champion of Wits to filter them away if needed, so that's another scenario for that card.
I'm currently working on something that's just midrange rather than splash control (though I do still hope to get back to control eventually). This is basically a regular delirium deck with a splash blue for scarab god. The list is as it stands right now, though I'm contemplating bringing both LLH to the mainboard in place of the advocate and maybe a grapple? Also planning to switch to 4/3 traverse/vessel. Anyone have any thoughts on how else I should change this? I do feel like the sideboard could be built better, probably add a crook of condemnation to it. Should I go up on the number of sweepers? I do seem to fold to RR if I don't have both removal and a body by turn 3. Would greatly appreciate any suggestions and changes. Thanks!
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Jun Ishihara went 8-2 (the same or better than 5 of the people in the top 8) in the standard portion of Pro Tour Aether Revolt, but placed 34th because of a poor limited performance. Because of this, his very sweet control deck has been overlooked by nearly everyone.
Inspired by this, I threw the deck together and have been playing and tweaking it since the PT. It plays all of the very powerful black removal spells which give it an edge against aggressive decks while turning the corner quickly all while generating a ton of card advantage. I have been tuning it to be better at beating Mardu and GB, but it has great tools against Saheeli, other combo decks, and control as well. Luis Gobern just took a similar version to a top 32 at GP Utrecht as well. The drawbacks are that the mana can sometimes be awkward and sometimes you can get stuck with clunky draws with too many enablers and not enough removal and gas. That said, it has the tools to beat anything and has draws that can beat other deck's nut draws. It has the best mana of any 3 color deck in the format and the best late game of any deck out there right now and has all of the best tools to survive until then.
Card Choices
Vessel of Nascency This is mainly here to get delirium, but does help fix mana, find threats, and gives your gearhulks better options as well.
Grapple with the Past Yet another card that helps to fix your mana early, this also helps with delirium and serves to get back your threats later and can help loop your Torrential Gearhulks in the late game to power through a ton of removal.
Glimmer of Genius This is a lot better than just an Inspiration. While we don't have any ways other than Aether Hub to use the Energy, having scry 2 tacked on to your draw spell is very powerful and while it's been seeing play, I think many underestimate just how good this card is.
Grasp of Darkness Another very strong piece of spot removal, BB makes harder to cast at times.
Negate An efficient counterspell, if somewhat narrow.
Disallow Slightly less efficient, but this thing hits everything and the kitchen sink. The best counterspell printed in a long time.
Murder Not as powerful or efficient as the other removal spells, but the initial list of the deck didn't have many ways of dealing with larger creatures which showed up when playing against GB and other gearhulk decks. This helps fill that hole.
To the Slaughter One of the benefits of the delirium package, this answers Gideon very cleanly as long as you have delirium and cast it when he isn't a creature. This also is a solid answer for Bristling Hydra and large creatures as long as you can use your other removal to take the rest of their stuff out.
Overwhelming Denial While this is good at winning counter battles vs other control and combo decks, it is much weaker in the current aggro metagame.
Yahenni's Expertise A powerful boardwipe that helps clean up the early rush from WRB and even GB while also letting you cast another card off of it. This teams up very well with Liliana, the Last Hope and Tireless Tracker.
Walking Ballista Great at dealing with many early threats and also enabling delirium, it scales upwards into a huge threat in the late game. This protects against the Saheeli combo and can also pair with Grasp, Lili, Flaying Tendrils, and Yahenni's Expertise to take down bigger creatures. It offers so much versatility.
Tireless Tracker He is nearly always a 2 for 1 and will generate a huge card advantage and threat if left unchecked.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet With all of our removal, this guy can often take over a game while permanently dealing with resilient threats like Scrapheap Scrounger and Prized Amalgam.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow Another payoff of delirium, nothing does a better job of gumming up the board and outside of countering it, she's very hard to answer cleanly while also being very mana efficient.
Noxious Gearhulk A nice 1 of tutor target, this is a great way of killing a big threat or taking something out and then presenting an evasive clock.
Torrential Gearhulk Snapcaster Mage on a Titan sized body. This is generally your best card in the late game with your mill effects giving him a good selection of targets and Traverse the Ulvenwald, Grapple with the Past, and Liliana, the Last Hope acting as copies 4-13. This guy provides a late game that's very hard to contend with.
The Decklists
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Noxious Gearhulk
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Vessel of Nascency
3 Grapple with the Past
2 Fatal Push
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Negate
2 Disallow
2 To the Slaughter
2 Pick the Brain
1 Overwhelming Denial
3 Glimmer of Genius
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Swamp
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Fatal Push
4 Grim Flayer
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Negate
1 Overwhelming Denial
1 Pick the Brain
1 To the Slaughter
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Noxious Gearhulk
3 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Fatal Push
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Grapple with the Past
1 Murder
2 To the Slaughter
2 Disallow
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Yahenni's Expertise
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Swamp
2 Natural Obsolescence
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
1 Murder
1 Ruinous Path
1 To the Slaughter
2 Pick the Brain
2 Negate
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Walking Ballista
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Noxious Gearhulk
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Fatal Push
3 Grapple with the Past
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Murder
2 To the Slaughter
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Vessel of Nascency
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Forest
1 Hissing Quagmire
2 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Swamp
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Murder
2 Natural Obsolescence
3 Negate
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Pick the Brain
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Transgress the Mind
This build eschews the maindeck counterspells, Glimmer of Genius, and Yahenni's Expertise and shaves a Liliana, the Last Hope for 1 more Grasp of Darkness, 4 Grim Flayer as early agression that doubles as card selection that helps turn on delirium, 2 Walking Ballistas to help trigger delirium, and a full 3 Ishkanah, Grafwidow. This main deck appears to have 61 cards.
Sideboard Guide (Based off of my build of the deck)
Cuts: 1 Vessel of Nascency, 1 Murder, 1 Disallow, 2 Tireless Tracker, and 1 Glimmer of Genius.
Adds: 2 Natural Obsolescence, 2 Flaying Tendrils, 1 To the Slaughter, and 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet.
Cuts: 2 To the Slaughter
Adds: 1 Murder, and 1 Ruinous Path.
If you see planeswalkers, -1 Liliana, the Last Hope and -1 Vessel of Nascency instead.
Cuts: 4 Fatal Push, 2 Yahenni's Expertise, 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, 1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow, and 1 Noxious Gearhulk.
Adds: 2 Pick the Brain, 1 Ruinous Path, 1 Murder, 1 To the Slaughter, 2 Overwhelming Denial, 1 Nissa, Vital Force and 1 Sphinx of the Final Word
If they have Dynavolt Tower, Stasis Snare, or anything similar, Appetite for the Unnatural / Natural Obsolescence can come in instead of Ruinous Path, Nissa, Vital Force and potentially even cutting 1 Liliana, the Last Hope as Dynavolt Tower is great at pressuring Planeswalkers and can generate a ton of Value over the course of a game.
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: UW Spirits
Got a little inspiration from this list here -> http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34990_Delirium-In-A-World-Of-Cycling.html#comments
I don't have Premium so I can't read the whole article myself but I really like the idea of using cycling to build delirium rather that self mill. I kept two Grapple with the Past in my build because I like the extra creature recursion and is a good Gearhulk target.
Modern:WUSpiritsWU, R12 BoltR
Commander:Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend, Ace of Spades, I Love the Night, The Reaper
~Signature by: Miraculous Recovery Signatures~
Ryan Steiner
30th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 4/29/2017Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Walking Ballista
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
2 Liliana, Death's Majesty
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Commit // Memory
2 Disallow
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
4 Fatal Push
2 Glimmer of Genius
2 Grasp of Darkness
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Murder
2 Negate
1 To the Slaughter
1 Never // Return
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Island
4 Swamp
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Botanical Sanctum
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Fetid Pools
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Dispel
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
1 Natural State
1 Negate
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Confiscation Coup
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Samuel Braatz
38th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 4/29/2017Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
3 Rogue Refiner
3 Tireless Tracker
3 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
3 Liliana, Death's Majesty
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Vessel of Nascency
4 Fatal Push
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Heart of Kiran
2 Never // Return
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Forest
1 Island
3 Swamp
2 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Westvale Abbey
3 Dispel
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Dispossess
2 Flaying Tendrils
Modern: UW Spirits
1) Walking Ballista isn't very good without Verdurous Gearhulk and Winding Constrictor now that there's no CopyCat to ward against. I found I was often paying 4-6 mana just to trade for a 2-drop with it, and it doesn't play well with the new Lili either. I had two to start and cut them both, there are better mana sinks and Delirium enablers available.
2) Death's Majesty seems better than Last Hope (you wouldn't know it from their price tags). It does a better job of punishing control players for tapping out (since they can't counter your zombies) and even though the ultimate doesn't win the game, it's very easy to reach and gives us a hard sweeper that's otherwise unavailable in these colors.
3) I didn't like Manglehorn in the main, it's pretty embarrassing when it doesn't have good targets. Dissenter's Deliverance is definitely the better hedge.
4) Spring // Mind counts as two card types for Delirium and functions similarly to Hieroglyphic Illumination. The sorcery speed on the front is a real cost, but you can also use the draw without a Gearhulk. I'm liking a single copy alongside two Illuminations, I'm not as high on Glimmer of Genius without any ways to utilize the energy and it's also rare that I want to pay full cost for any of these draw spells.
5) We will need to figure out some good answers for the R/G Gods deck, specifically Rhonas since we can answer Hazoret with Grasp of Darkness. Commit // Memory is too expensive to load up on and To the Slaughter isn't reliable. I've just been slogging through on the back of Liliana and Ishkanah pumping out tokens but it's messy.
Esper Control
Modern:WUSpiritsWU, R12 BoltR
Commander:Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend, Ace of Spades, I Love the Night, The Reaper
~Signature by: Miraculous Recovery Signatures~
FYI Approach of the Second Sun triggers even if the first copy was countered, which is obnoxious. Between that and all the Ulamarvel decks I'm loading up on Lost Legacy in the sideboard, I might even go up to three copies. It's actually good against a lot of the new decks cropping up - Rhonas, Bristling Hydra, Cryptbreaker, Prized Amalgam, Drake Haven, all major headaches and perfect targets.
I tried out the new Nissa in my sideboard against control after getting wrecked by it. I couldn't make good use of the -0 and the +2 doesn't really do anything, so it's ultimate or bust. I think I'd run it if I had Grim Flayers to help manipulate my draws but for now I'm trying Kefnet the Mindful instead. I like that I can tutor for it with Traverse and bring it back with Lili as needed, although it's possible it should just be Sphinx of the Final Word.
Esper Control
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Noxious Gearhulk
Spells 23
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Fatal Push
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Negate
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
2 Disallow
2 To the Slaughter
1 Never // Return
1 Spring // Mind
2 Commit // Memory
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Vessel of Nascency
Planeswalkers 3
2 Liliana, Death's Majesty
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
Lands 24
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Botanical Sanctum
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Fetid Pools
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Sunken Hollow
4 Swamp
2 Dispel
1 Natural State
1 Negate
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Manglehorn
2 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Summary Dismissal
I'm thinking of swapping Spring // Mind for a Painful Truths since it essentially does the same thing at a far more efficient rate while keeping my sorcery count up for Delirium. Edit - I really like the list featured here: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13934&writer=Adam Yurchick&articledate=5-4-2017
Esper Control
Modern: UW Spirits
I don't think this deck is particularly well positioned in the current metagame (it's too fair) but it would gain a lot from a Marvel ban. It doesn't ever steal wins but if you work for it I think you can get close to 50/50 against most of the field.
Esper Control
Esper Control
Supreme Will is easier to cast than Disallow and I like that the other mode can replace Glimmer of Genius as a proactive draw spell to flashback with Gearhulk. It frees up a couple slots and it was hard to take a turn off for Glimmer against aggro anyway. I still like one hard counter to flashback late in the game so I'm running a 2/1 split, much like my 3/1 Censor/Negate split.
Champion of Wits was great in testing, I could set myself up for Lili into Ishkanah on turn five which is bonkers. The eternalize was gas in the late game too. I cut it because I'm not sure this deck makes good use of the 2/1 body the way emerge does, and if I want to get stuff in the graveyard Mindwrack Demon is probably better overall while also insulating Lili from Glorybringer. If I go all in on reanimation or want to maindeck sweepers, I will definitely revisit this guy.
Bontu's Last Reckoning is the hard sweeper I needed to get out of unwinnable situations, but the drawback is pretty awkward against aggro decks. It's definitely not something I want to be doing multiple times a game, so I'm liking one copy with two Yahenni's Expertise. It's great against G/B and Temur midrange and still an acceptable sweeper against tokens/zombies.
Doomfall is something I never feel particularly great casting, but the flexibility is why it's worth a couple sideboard slots. It also saves you from having to run something like Hour of Glory to deal with the new gods.
Jace's Defeat acts as a Negate that also stops Torrential Gearhulk, I think it's better than a 4th Negate
Nimble Obstructionist has a lot of potential with 3cmc Lili and Grapple, I'm not sure there are enough important targets but I'm giving it a shot. You can snipe planeswalkers with it too, so it might keep a spot just on flexibility.
Dreamstealer eats a counterspell, then rises from the dead as an uncounterable hand destroyer. It's a pretty huge payoff if you get there, but I'm still not 100% on this one.
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Khalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 The Scarab God
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Noxious Gearhulk
Planeswalkers 3
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Spells 23
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Fatal Push
3 Censor
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Grapple with the Past
1 Negate
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
2 Supreme Will
2 To the Slaughter
1 Disallow
1 Never // Return
2 Vessel of Nascency
Lands 23
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Fetid Pools
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Lumbering Falls
2 Sunken Hollow
4 Swamp
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Negate
1 Jace's Defeat
1 Essence Scatter
2 Doomfall
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
1 Manglehorn
2 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Walking Ballista
Esper Control
1) What's the viability looking like post-Marvel ban?
Looks like this incarnation of Standard now that Marvel is out will be control-friendly, with decks such as Grixis, UW Flash and this one.I don't wish to win any protours or anything, but I want to pilot a deck substantially better than my brews so I can hone my player skills before going back to brewing.
2) How necessary is Torrential Gearhulk and how likely do you think it is to get banned?
The card is expensive as hell. I'll have a friend lend me some for this Saturday's showdown, but thinking long term I don't want to invest big in 2 copies if they're going to get banned soon.
3) Are you finding the deck to be inconsistent with so many 1-ofs 2-ofs?
I understand the role of Traverse the Ulvenwald, and I personally like to count 2 of them as one extra card copy, but even so, is it consistent enough without them? The bane of toolboxy decklists is that you seldom draw what you need in a tight spot.
4) What's the deal with Harsh Scrutiny?
I think it's an amazing early turn card, but I never see it in any lists. Am I overrating the crap out of the card?
That said, I specifically had some questions about the list posted above.
Looks fine in a control heavy meta, but is the Scarab God really what you want to draw in a desperate situation? I'm sure there's better topdecks out there than it, it also takes a while to get going. I don't doubt its resilience if it resolves tho.
You mention Mindwrack Demon as a good card but I don't see it in your list. What kind of deck would you have to run to make it viable? Because on paper, Champion of Wits looks ten times better.
You're running them SB tho: do you think the main package in these lists is good enough to justify sending the sweepers to side?
I love the card, and have seen it being used in a couple decks back at my LGS. I know we'd all prefer the Khans of Tarkir charms, but I think cards like this are the closest we'll get in a while. I'd say keep versatility in the MB and the hate in the SB.
Been thinking about it myself, and it's one of the spoiled cards that made me consider blue again (was previously rolling Abzan Delirium with mediocre results). It acts as a counter for some of the main offenders in the format, such as Gearhulks, Chandras, Lilianas, and Kirans. I've been in situations vs UW Flash where my whole lifeline is Noxious Gearhulk, they counter its trigger and I die. I think I'll want 2 copies in my list.
I don't like it. Champion of Wits gives you cards and Nimble Obstructionist gives you options, whereas this guy gives you a lame creature that no one will leave alive. In a control shell, leaving yourself open to an obviously better T3 drop from them just to drop this guy and MAYBE extract a card before it dies is not something I'd like to do.
Thanks for your time guys, and hope we can get some HoD discussion going!
Overall I think the deck has enough tutoring and tools to compete with anything if tuned correctly but its inability to race (no 2-drop threats) makes New Perspectives backed by Dispel very hard to beat without dedicating sideboard slots to Lost Legacy. As for Harsh Scrutiny, I feel like the fourth Fatal Push would be better and I haven't been needing it. Doomfall is a more expensive version but it's not dead in the late game and it deals with gods, so that role is somewhat covered anyway.
Regarding The Scarab God, Mindwrack Demon, Champion of Wits, etc., I was initially heading toward a deck that just wanted to drop Liliana, Death's Majesty on turn 5 and reanimate Ishkanah, Grafwidow or a Gearhulk. I resisted even testing the God but I faced it in a mirror match and it wrecked me. For starters it's almost impossible to answer (I have since made room for an Hour of Glory in my sideboard), and even though the reanimate effect costs mana you can use it multiple times in the same turn instead of every 2-3 turns. Plus you can tutor for it and it exiles annoying stuff, it's just too good not to play. That decision pushed me away from relying on big Lili since the 5cmc slot is crowded and I had to cut one, which means I'm less concerned with getting creatures into my graveyard to cheat out right away. I do think the demon is well positioned, especially against Glorybringer, but I only had room for one and it seemed like a weird singleton (I don't think I'd ever tutor for it). I've got Kalitas in that slot instead, normally he's a sideboard card but his synergy with Lili and Scarab God pushed him over the top. Champion is excellent but slow, I don't think you can take time off to cast it on curve unless the payoff is big - in the end I opted for less pseudo-combo in favor of raw power and access to more tools.
I agree that Dreamstealer seems like average removal bait but a lot of pros are trying it out, it's definitely nasty when it hits...I could see it working in a control mirror where removal gets boarded out. Nobody is boarding out all their removal against this deck so I don't think it's any good. Nimble Obstructionist is weird, there aren't a lot of great targets for it (you'd rather just counter the whole Gearhulk, for example) but I really like the design. I think it probably needs more Liliana, the Last Hope and Grapple with the Past to spam it instead of answering some specific thing. As for sweepers, Ishkanah is basically a sweeper that isn't dead against control or combo decks so I lean on that in game one and flood the board with zombies/spiders. I play 100% on MTGO so I face a wide range of decks, if I knew I was in a metagame full of zombies and U/W Monument I would definitely move a sweeper or two to the main. Btw, if I did run sweepers in the main I would probably want Champion of Wits to filter them away if needed, so that's another scenario for that card.
Esper Control
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
4x Grim Flayer
2x Ishkanah, Grafwidow
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Mindwrack Demon
2x Noxious Gearhulk
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
1x Sylvan Advocate
2x The Scarab God
2x Walking Ballista
Land (24)
4x Blooming Marsh
2x Botanical Sanctum
1x Choked Estuary
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
3x Hissing Quagmire
1x Island
1x Lumbering Falls
7x Swamp
3x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Enchantment (4)
4x Vessel of Nascency
Instant (10)
3x Fatal Push
3x Grapple with the Past
3x Grasp of Darkness
1x Murder
2x Dispossess
3x Lay Bare the Heart
2x Liliana, Death's Majesty
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Scarab Feast
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Yahenni's Expertise
I'm currently working on something that's just midrange rather than splash control (though I do still hope to get back to control eventually). This is basically a regular delirium deck with a splash blue for scarab god. The list is as it stands right now, though I'm contemplating bringing both LLH to the mainboard in place of the advocate and maybe a grapple? Also planning to switch to 4/3 traverse/vessel. Anyone have any thoughts on how else I should change this? I do feel like the sideboard could be built better, probably add a crook of condemnation to it. Should I go up on the number of sweepers? I do seem to fold to RR if I don't have both removal and a body by turn 3. Would greatly appreciate any suggestions and changes. Thanks!