If interested, here's a fun little 5-0 to watch from TCGPlayer. Easy wins against Constrictor, Mardu and Copy Cat. Despite some bad misplays that should've finished some games, and matches, sooner.
Here's my most recent list. I've actually added in a couple of more Stitchwing Skaabs. I'm at a 1/2 split with Geralf's Masterpiece. I still like the Masterpiece more overall (they are much better in the mid and late games than the Skaab); it just felt like I needed one more 2 discarders to get going in the early game. I still am definitely keeping Masterpieces in the deck though.
I run more of a zombie beatdown than a Deep-Fiend Train. Maybe it's my local meta, but I seem to do better being more zombie heavy. Control is really popular here, and having uncounterable, hard to permanently get rid of zombies is impossible for them to deal with. If the local meta shifts towards more aggro decks, I'll likely add in another EDF.
Out of curiosity, what's everyone else doing when sideboarding? Does anyone side out a land when on the draw? I've been playing around with that and pretty happy about it. I haven't really been happy about the land count in general. When I'm down to 22, it feels like too few, but when I'm up to 23, it feels like too many. Having 23 on the play and 22 on the draw, though, has felt pretty good.
I was surprised to read his control match up was poor. That seems by far my easiest match-ups. I do find that Eldrazi shenanigans are harder against control, but I lean heavier on zombies in those matches. My control matches got better when I added in a few Masterpieces over the Skaabs, but they were already favorable.
He also seemed more afraid of getting his Reunions and Voices countered than I am. I don't worry about it. I want the discard, the draw is bonus.
I don't really know how anyone can say they struggle against control with this deck. Fevered Visions ruins everyone's day and Deep-Fiend, even when countered by Disallow, makes for some annoying 50/50 choices on their part.
I've been playing around with the land totals. Mainly pushing them lower. I'm currently playing around with 21 lands. I cut basic mountains and islands and replaced Highland Lakes to keep the same number of red and blue sources. It's a little off putting to take out 2 untapped lands and put in 2 ETB tapped lands, but I don't really do anything on turn 1, so it's not too bad.
As I said, so far it hasn't been a problem. I did have to switch to a heavier Stitchwing Skaab build from the heavier Geralf's Masterpiece, but overall that doesn't bother me either. Having the playset of Corrupted Grafstones seems to compensate perfectly while still giving the ability to ramp in the early game into some pretty sick plays. One of my favorites is turn 2 grafstone/turn 3 Cathartic Reunion (or Tormenting Voice) and having the mana to bring back a Stitchwing Skaab. Being to dig a bit deeper towards those Amalgams as well as having more mana going into turn 4 is priceless. Double Reunion/Voice on turn 3 is very good too. Makes digging down to those zombies to get the engine going even better. It also helps find those Emergers and Returns faster.
I'm still going game 1 split between zombie beat-down and emerge shenanigans, and then leaning heavier one way or the other in games 2 and 3 depending on my opponent. I love the way this deck gives plenty of options of playstyle. I currently keep Summary Dismissal in against the mirror, until recently it's been taking up spots. Lately, however, it seems there are more mirror matches than their have been in the past. There's even another UR Zombie Emerge player at the LGS now (we're a small town). As the deck seems to catch on, that's gonna be a more important card in the mirror. Bounce cards are also strong in the mirror, except Compelling Detterence which just let's them discard zombies again defeating the purpose of sending them to opponents' hands instead of their graveyard.
I don't have much trouble with those decks. I bring in Lightning Axe, Negate, Fevered Visions, and Compelling Deterrence and take out the EDFs, K Returns, and Tormenting Voices. I also bring in a Geralf's Masterpiece and take out a Stitchwing Skaab (running 2/2 instead of the 3/1 I normally run). I don't have a lot of trouble with them. I just attack the combo pieces without really worrying about the creatures in their deck. Amalgams kill/trade everything on the ground. I find Stitchwing Skaabs to be a liability in that match up because they trade with Thopter Tokens and die to Harnessed Lightning with a really cheap energy cost. Fevered Visions does a lot to kill them. They tend to hold combo pieces in hand.
One of my favorite things to do to them is use Collective Defiance with full escalate to kill a creature, 3 to the face and wheel away the combo pieces they're holding.
Ran the standard build of this deck and won a small event on Saturday with the prize being a discounted pre-order of Modern Masters 2017. I have to say I love that I can do this kind of ***** in standard. I'd rather lose with this deck than win with anything else currently in standard.
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I've played the standard list for the last few weeks, what's the Plus to running broken concentration in the main over anything else?
I think I'm the only person who runs Broken Concentration in the main. The only reason I run it is because hard, unconditional counters are useful, and the reason I run it over other counterspells is it has madness and sometimes that comes in super useful. I can tell you, most of the time when I bring back a zombie and madness out a counterspell, it's typically game over. A lot of the time, it's such a swing that my opponents scoop. It's more useful in a heavier midrange/control meta than in a heavier aggro meta, and my LGS is heavy control.
Ran the standard build of this deck and won a small event on Saturday with the prize being a discounted pre-order of Modern Masters 2017. I have to say I love that I can do this kind of ***** in standard. I'd rather lose with this deck than win with anything else currently in standard.
I couldn't agree more. I love standard. I've always loved standard, but after 20 years of playing magic, I get sick of linear strategies. I love the weird ways to play this game (and it's what I love most about this game). This actually one of my favorite decks I've ever built. Right up there with my Kamigawa/Ravnica Moonfolk deck (that was fun and weird too! lol)
I've played the standard list for the last few weeks, what's the Plus to running broken concentration in the main over anything else?
I think I'm the only person who runs Broken Concentration in the main. The only reason I run it is because hard, unconditional counters are useful, and the reason I run it over other counterspells is it has madness and sometimes that comes in super useful. I can tell you, most of the time when I bring back a zombie and madness out a counterspell, it's typically game over. A lot of the time, it's such a swing that my opponents scoop. It's more useful in a heavier midrange/control meta than in a heavier aggro meta, and my LGS is heavy control.
Ran the standard build of this deck and won a small event on Saturday with the prize being a discounted pre-order of Modern Masters 2017. I have to say I love that I can do this kind of ***** in standard. I'd rather lose with this deck than win with anything else currently in standard.
I couldn't agree more. I love standard. I've always loved standard, but after 20 years of playing magic, I get sick of linear strategies. I love the weird ways to play this game (and it's what I love most about this game). This actually one of my favorite decks I've ever built. Right up there with my Kamigawa/Ravnica Moonfolk deck (that was fun and weird too! lol)
I generally choose decks like this because they (1) play Magic differently than other decks and (2) are not just the same old, same old tier 1 strategies the self-proclaimed spikes like to run. My LGS has a small scene so I tend to try for things like this to help keep things diverse. If we're all trying to spike FNM with Mardu Vehicles, FNM sucks. Still, I would feel comfortable running this in any other environment too, because it seems to have game against the field. The only problem is if it loses to itself, but that's a risk we take running what is, ultimately, a highly synergistic GY combo.
(Also I like being a 3 format GY junky: Living End in Modern, U/R Zombo-Combo in Standard, and B/R Reanimator in Legacy.)
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Hello all....been playing the deck on MTGO for the past week and really like it. I'm wondering about a couple of things though....I've started casting Stitchwing out of the graveyard during my opponents second main phase to get the trigger for PA before end step. Is this the common timing for doing so rather than tying up mana on my turn? I would assume so if I want to trigger PA to attack on my turn, otherwise I should be able to bring them out during the end step. My initial games had me doing this all on my turn and then sitting on Negates with no manner...didn;'t take long to learn the timing on the recursion for the zombies.
I love Flameblade Adept as a possible new player in the deck, along with some cycle lands to help trigger when they are legal. Not sure where he fits into the deck, but I think he's worth trying out.
Hello all....been playing the deck on MTGO for the past week and really like it. I'm wondering about a couple of things though....I've started casting Stitchwing out of the graveyard during my opponents second main phase to get the trigger for PA before end step. Is this the common timing for doing so rather than tying up mana on my turn? I would assume so if I want to trigger PA to attack on my turn, otherwise I should be able to bring them out during the end step. My initial games had me doing this all on my turn and then sitting on Negates with no manner...didn;'t take long to learn the timing on the recursion for the zombies.
I love Flameblade Adept as a possible new player in the deck, along with some cycle lands to help trigger when they are legal. Not sure where he fits into the deck, but I think he's worth trying out.
Thanks all for the ongoing discussion.
mvilla888
Yes. In general you want to get Stitchwing out on their second main phase for the reasons you state. I don't think there's ever an instance you would do so during your turn.
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There are plenty of reasons to reanimate zombies on your turn instead of your opponents' turns. The number 1 reason I can think of is because your opponent is tapped down. That means you can easily madness out a Fiery Temper without having to worry about a counterspell or Blossoming Defense. IF you do this though, you typically want to do it during your own End Step so your Prized Amalgams aren't in play tapped like sitting ducks during your opponents' main phases having never attacked.
I guess 'plenty' was a strong word. I should've said 1 reason lol, but it's a good reason.
Honestly, it's a shame there weren't more good madness cards. Oh well.
There are plenty of reasons to reanimate zombies on your turn instead of your opponents' turns. The number 1 reason I can think of is because your opponent is tapped down. That means you can easily madness out a Fiery Temper without having to worry about a counterspell or Blossoming Defense. IF you do this though, you typically want to do it during your own End Step so your Prized Amalgams aren't in play tapped like sitting ducks during your opponents' main phases having never attacked.
I guess 'plenty' was a strong word. I should've said 1 reason lol, but it's a good reason.
Honestly, it's a shame there weren't more good madness cards. Oh well.
You are right. OP's wording suggested they were looking for general guidance on reanimating the Stitches and that they had been reanimating them during their own turn, so my response was geared towards that. But there are always corner cases, as you say, and it pays to be opportunistic in some matches.
So I will amend my earlier comment to say: in general, you want to get Stitchwing out on their second main phase for the reasons stated. However, be aware of situations where the general rule is not optimal and play accordingly.
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The only other scenario of a non-opponent's-2nd-main-phase I can think of pretty much only applies to me since I'm the only person I know who plays Broken Concentration. If you're playing Broken Concentration with the madness cost, you will reanimate your zombie anytime you need a counterspell. (also one of my favorite plays with this deck!)
Thanks all, I find it interesting that the deck was doing well a couple of weeks ago online, but is now absent from the 5-0 listings...what happened?
I think what you are remarking on is the result of a general lack of people playing the deck. Standard has been "solved" in most people's minds and basically everyone and their mother is playing one of two decks, which inflates those results and depresses our own. Those archetypes have far more chances to 5-0 a tournament while we have just a few.
A couple of thoughts off the cuff:
This is not necessarily indicative of a flaw in our deck or a comment on its playability in this format. The apparent superiority of the two best decks is, again, inflated by the sheer number of people playing them. This reinforces two tendencies common to Magic players: (1) thinking that the combined brain power of Magic players on the internet is tantamount to an unlimited capacity for calculation that can definitively solve a format and design a clear "best" deck; and, (2) thinking that to be the best, you must play the "best" deck in a format if such a deck is known. Arguably what we see when we have such wonky meta games is people with tendency #2 (e.g. most competitive Magic players) making a decision to play a particular deck based on a limited pool of results and discounting alternatives because of tendency #1.
As to #1, it is clear the majority of Magic players on the internet receive information rather than produce it. I, for instance, read Channel Fireball and review deck techs to learn about new decks. I also pay attention to PT and other tournament coverage to see what decks make it to the top tables. If there is something competitive that I can afford, I will build that deck and play it in paper and online. There's seldom any legitimate play testing that goes into this decision because I, like everyone else, am a net decker with no good original thoughts regarding Magic whatsoever (plenty of bad ones though.) I certainly didn't arrive at the conclusion that Deck X was the best deck because of my own scientific research, but rather because it spiked a tournament and then I, like thousands of others, read the article "Here's Why CFB Ice Played Deck X, the Best Deck in the Format, Which Is So Because PVDDR Says So and It Won This Tournament So, Duh." So, we tend to receive our information from two to three online outlets run by high profile professional teams rather than an unlimited render farm. What happens then is a bunch of little menloes go out and buy the deck en masse and start playing in online tournaments and round about town and, lo and behold, the disproportionate number of people entering a tournament with Deck X leads to a disproportionate number of Deck X players day twoing which leads to a disproportionate number of Deck X players Top 8ing (or Deck X players 5-0ing as the case may be.)
It is less a render farm, which I think requires multitudes of people testing infinite combinations of cards (which is impossible), than a feedback loop. Is there a better deck? Is there a deck that beats Deck X? I do not know, and the cost of finding out is obviously much higher than the cost of just going with the known quantity since I just want to win. So tendency #2 compels me to play Deck X.
I think our deck is great. It does crazy and fun things (in standard!) and is inherently powerful. The fact that it can still put up results in spite of the emergence of two "best" decks is a testament to that. It is very likely underplayed.
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Ok, so no changes to Standard. Where do we go with this deck with the new set rotating in and no changes to Combo or Vehicles?
Assuming Flameblade Adept is solid in the deck, what comes out? Fevered Visions? some mix of zombies?
Ok, so no changes to Standard. Where do we go with this deck with the new set rotating in and no changes to Combo or Vehicles?
Assuming Flameblade Adept is solid in the deck, what comes out? Fevered Visions? some mix of zombies?
I haven't seen anything from the new set that I'm super excited about adding to the deck. Flameblade Adept isn't a card I'll be adding. Adding a creature that doesn't come back, discard or draw into the deck isn't exactly what I'm looking for.
I'll take a look later on tonight
4 Advanced Stitchwing
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
2 Geralf's Masterpiece
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Stitchwing Skaab
Enchantments 1
1 Fevered Visions
Artifacts 6
4 Corrupted Grafstone
2 Key to the City
Instants 9
3 Broken Concentration
3 Fiery Temper
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Cathartic Reunion
1 Collective Defiance
3 Tormenting Voice
Lands 23
3 Drownyard Temple
4 Island
7 Mountain
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Broken Concentration
2 Collective Defiance
2 Compelling Deterrence
1 Fiery Temper
2 Lightning Axe
2 Negate
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Release the Gremlins
1 Tormenting Voice
I run more of a zombie beatdown than a Deep-Fiend Train. Maybe it's my local meta, but I seem to do better being more zombie heavy. Control is really popular here, and having uncounterable, hard to permanently get rid of zombies is impossible for them to deal with. If the local meta shifts towards more aggro decks, I'll likely add in another EDF.
Out of curiosity, what's everyone else doing when sideboarding? Does anyone side out a land when on the draw? I've been playing around with that and pretty happy about it. I haven't really been happy about the land count in general. When I'm down to 22, it feels like too few, but when I'm up to 23, it feels like too many. Having 23 on the play and 22 on the draw, though, has felt pretty good.
Thoughts?
Reddit Thread Here
I was surprised to read his control match up was poor. That seems by far my easiest match-ups. I do find that Eldrazi shenanigans are harder against control, but I lean heavier on zombies in those matches. My control matches got better when I added in a few Masterpieces over the Skaabs, but they were already favorable.
He also seemed more afraid of getting his Reunions and Voices countered than I am. I don't worry about it. I want the discard, the draw is bonus.
Thoughts?
EDH: Borborygmos Enraged, Sedris, The Traitor King
60 Card: Grixis Delver, Living End, Shardless BUG, Ninjas
The only truly problematic cards in my mind are Declaration in Stone and Stasis Snare.
Standard:
UR Ral Combo
Modern:
U Merfolk
R Goblins
Commander
RB Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
R Feldon of the Third Path
Here's what I currently have:
4 Advanced Stitchwing
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Geralf's Masterpiece
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Stitchwing Skaab
Enchantments 1
1 Fevered Visions
Artifacts 6
4 Corrupted Grafstone
2 Key to the city
Instants 8
3 Broken Concentration
3 Fiery Temper
2 Kozilek's Return
4 Cathartic Reunion
2 Collective Defiance
4 Tormenting Voice
Lands 21
2 Drownyard Temple
2 Highland Lake
2 Island
6 Mountain
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Wandering Fumarole
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Geralf's Masterpiece
1 Fevered Visions
2 Compelling Deterrence
1 Fiery Temper
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Lightning Axe
2 Negate
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Release the Gremlins
As I said, so far it hasn't been a problem. I did have to switch to a heavier Stitchwing Skaab build from the heavier Geralf's Masterpiece, but overall that doesn't bother me either. Having the playset of Corrupted Grafstones seems to compensate perfectly while still giving the ability to ramp in the early game into some pretty sick plays. One of my favorites is turn 2 grafstone/turn 3 Cathartic Reunion (or Tormenting Voice) and having the mana to bring back a Stitchwing Skaab. Being to dig a bit deeper towards those Amalgams as well as having more mana going into turn 4 is priceless. Double Reunion/Voice on turn 3 is very good too. Makes digging down to those zombies to get the engine going even better. It also helps find those Emergers and Returns faster.
I'm still going game 1 split between zombie beat-down and emerge shenanigans, and then leaning heavier one way or the other in games 2 and 3 depending on my opponent. I love the way this deck gives plenty of options of playstyle. I currently keep Summary Dismissal in against the mirror, until recently it's been taking up spots. Lately, however, it seems there are more mirror matches than their have been in the past. There's even another UR Zombie Emerge player at the LGS now (we're a small town). As the deck seems to catch on, that's gonna be a more important card in the mirror. Bounce cards are also strong in the mirror, except Compelling Detterence which just let's them discard zombies again defeating the purpose of sending them to opponents' hands instead of their graveyard.
Has anyone else been trying anything new?
One of my favorite things to do to them is use Collective Defiance with full escalate to kill a creature, 3 to the face and wheel away the combo pieces they're holding.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I couldn't agree more. I love standard. I've always loved standard, but after 20 years of playing magic, I get sick of linear strategies. I love the weird ways to play this game (and it's what I love most about this game). This actually one of my favorite decks I've ever built. Right up there with my Kamigawa/Ravnica Moonfolk deck (that was fun and weird too! lol)
Sorry I missed this. I am usually a modern player and so tend to lurk in those forums. My list is the same as in Steve Rubin's video series here: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13805&writer=Steve Rubin&articledate=2-15-2017.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I generally choose decks like this because they (1) play Magic differently than other decks and (2) are not just the same old, same old tier 1 strategies the self-proclaimed spikes like to run. My LGS has a small scene so I tend to try for things like this to help keep things diverse. If we're all trying to spike FNM with Mardu Vehicles, FNM sucks. Still, I would feel comfortable running this in any other environment too, because it seems to have game against the field. The only problem is if it loses to itself, but that's a risk we take running what is, ultimately, a highly synergistic GY combo.
(Also I like being a 3 format GY junky: Living End in Modern, U/R Zombo-Combo in Standard, and B/R Reanimator in Legacy.)
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I love Flameblade Adept as a possible new player in the deck, along with some cycle lands to help trigger when they are legal. Not sure where he fits into the deck, but I think he's worth trying out.
Thanks all for the ongoing discussion.
mvilla888
Yes. In general you want to get Stitchwing out on their second main phase for the reasons you state. I don't think there's ever an instance you would do so during your turn.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I guess 'plenty' was a strong word. I should've said 1 reason lol, but it's a good reason.
Honestly, it's a shame there weren't more good madness cards. Oh well.
You are right. OP's wording suggested they were looking for general guidance on reanimating the Stitches and that they had been reanimating them during their own turn, so my response was geared towards that. But there are always corner cases, as you say, and it pays to be opportunistic in some matches.
So I will amend my earlier comment to say: in general, you want to get Stitchwing out on their second main phase for the reasons stated. However, be aware of situations where the general rule is not optimal and play accordingly.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I think what you are remarking on is the result of a general lack of people playing the deck. Standard has been "solved" in most people's minds and basically everyone and their mother is playing one of two decks, which inflates those results and depresses our own. Those archetypes have far more chances to 5-0 a tournament while we have just a few.
A couple of thoughts off the cuff:
This is not necessarily indicative of a flaw in our deck or a comment on its playability in this format. The apparent superiority of the two best decks is, again, inflated by the sheer number of people playing them. This reinforces two tendencies common to Magic players: (1) thinking that the combined brain power of Magic players on the internet is tantamount to an unlimited capacity for calculation that can definitively solve a format and design a clear "best" deck; and, (2) thinking that to be the best, you must play the "best" deck in a format if such a deck is known. Arguably what we see when we have such wonky meta games is people with tendency #2 (e.g. most competitive Magic players) making a decision to play a particular deck based on a limited pool of results and discounting alternatives because of tendency #1.
As to #1, it is clear the majority of Magic players on the internet receive information rather than produce it. I, for instance, read Channel Fireball and review deck techs to learn about new decks. I also pay attention to PT and other tournament coverage to see what decks make it to the top tables. If there is something competitive that I can afford, I will build that deck and play it in paper and online. There's seldom any legitimate play testing that goes into this decision because I, like everyone else, am a net decker with no good original thoughts regarding Magic whatsoever (plenty of bad ones though.) I certainly didn't arrive at the conclusion that Deck X was the best deck because of my own scientific research, but rather because it spiked a tournament and then I, like thousands of others, read the article "Here's Why CFB Ice Played Deck X, the Best Deck in the Format, Which Is So Because PVDDR Says So and It Won This Tournament So, Duh." So, we tend to receive our information from two to three online outlets run by high profile professional teams rather than an unlimited render farm. What happens then is a bunch of little menloes go out and buy the deck en masse and start playing in online tournaments and round about town and, lo and behold, the disproportionate number of people entering a tournament with Deck X leads to a disproportionate number of Deck X players day twoing which leads to a disproportionate number of Deck X players Top 8ing (or Deck X players 5-0ing as the case may be.)
It is less a render farm, which I think requires multitudes of people testing infinite combinations of cards (which is impossible), than a feedback loop. Is there a better deck? Is there a deck that beats Deck X? I do not know, and the cost of finding out is obviously much higher than the cost of just going with the known quantity since I just want to win. So tendency #2 compels me to play Deck X.
I think our deck is great. It does crazy and fun things (in standard!) and is inherently powerful. The fact that it can still put up results in spite of the emergence of two "best" decks is a testament to that. It is very likely underplayed.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
Assuming Flameblade Adept is solid in the deck, what comes out? Fevered Visions? some mix of zombies?
Harsh Mentor is probably a useful sideboard card.
I'm more worried about the future of the deck with the GY hate that's coming. Watchers of the Dead is gonna be a hard card to overcome.