I am personally off smugglers copter in this deck I play the U/R similar to the posted list here. Copter just feels durdly to me its cycling a card T3 at the best. I just run more draw/discard engines. I reliably am time walking by t4 sometime it starts as early as t3. My sideboard is basically all counter magic plus some galvanic bombardment if I feel like my opponent is just way to fast. I really like 3 fiery tempers main as its generally a high value card. A lightning axe discarding fiery temper is very high value play for 2 mana.
well, at the pt there were about 12 grixis emerge decks, some of them even made day 2. some versions of rb zombies made top 32 as well, so there must be something working in the core, right?
liliana in the main is...interesting. maybe not the full 4x, but just 2 of them might take the spot of key to the city. the deck is fully capable of using her vs more aggressive decks and defending her with kozilek's return and surprise spirit tokens.
against a deck maindecking 4 liliana the best strategy would be to play the aggro role i assume.
Hey guys, need some advice. I had settled on a list for game day that I had posted 2 days ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get all the cards. I wanted to run a list with 4 Aether Hub, but was only able to get 1. Checked 3 LGS, not a single copy to be found. So now I'm stuck trying to work out a new list, or at least a reasonable mana base for my existing list, and I dont have much time to do it since the tournament i want to run is in 15 hours from now.
Here's what I'm working with and could definitely use as much group-think on it as possible.
The mana felt okay, if not a little underwhelming in my testing tonight. I was playing against RW vehicles, but this feels like a good match-up, so it may not be representative of how the mana would effect other matches. Im open to suggestions.
I feel like the deck doesn't really want Minister of Inquiries if you aren't using the energy for Aether Hub. And I feel like if you cut the Ministers, then Smuggler's Copter gets a lot worse. My first idea was -3 Smuggler's Copter +3 Lightning Axe, but I don't really know what to do with the Ministers, maybe Tormenting Voice? Then if I add Tormenting Voice and Lightning axe, I feel like i'd benefit from some fiery temper. Again, open to any suggestions.
I tested the U/R emerge (Levy's list) over the weekend and it seems like it folds badly when the skaabs just kept getting killed since we have to keep pitching 2 cards to bring them back. It feels like the deck needs some form of card drawing and I'm thinking of 3-4 fevered vision main deck maybe replacing the wretched gryff? What do you guys think?
I was considering taking a leaf from UR spell's book and trying out take inventory.
Another interesting cards to consider would be Voldaren Pariah, perhaps out of the side replacing gryffs in builds that still run scrapheap scroungers.
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I won Game Day with Grixis Emerge, and the finals was a mirror match! Well, almost a mirror match. His deck ran Scroungers and Distended Mindbenders in the main, as well as contingency plan.
Advanced Stitchwing may be better, haven't tested with it much because I feel the cheaper recursion cost on Skaab is better
I also noticed a major difference in our play styles, and wanted to ask everyone's opinion on it. When I play the deck, I almost never drop a 5th land unless it's Sanctum of Ugin. In fact, I rarely even drop my 4th land on time, I usually hold my lands to pitch to the many discard outlets. The 4th land usually does hit the battlefield, but only when I'm actually Emerging a creature, or am looking to cast one of the 4 drop creatures. My opponent however played more traditionally going up to 6-8 lands every game.
Anyways, I feel like the deck is great, and the only thing I'm still wondering is if the 2nd Wretched Gryff (or something else) should be the 4th Smuggler's Copter. Copter is the real deal in the deck, by the way. It just lets you put the pressure on early against more dursly draws out if your opponent.
Played grixis emerge at game day. Lost first round in top 8 to a grixis midrange deck that dropped Kalitas both games on curve and I couldn't draw lightning axe, then ended the game with dark dwellers or gearhulk flashing back disintigrates.
Played ok but I felt I was fighting against my own awkward mana and draws more than my opponent in most games. It just didn't execute the emerge plan consistently and I was often just hellbent with a weak board facing threats I had no answer to.
I am planning BR madness going forward with more interaction and more aggression.
Standard lands but of note I wasn't running Aether Hubs.
Played against Grixis emerge, BG delerium, UW flash-loss, BR agro, RG energy. Cut to top 8, Grixis midrange-loss.
It wasn't a bad run really, K-return and deepfiends were just lackluster for me all day. I guess I would want more ministers and the aether hubs as I really want to see amalgams in the GY more consistently and need better mana.
How did you find Scrapheap Scrounger? I found it to be the worst card in the deck by a large margin. Our lists are very similar except I run Stitchwing over Scrounger.
I was very leery on Minister in the beginning, but I wouldn't run less than 4 now. I ran the math a few different ways, and minister almost always provides over a card worth a value from activating it twice, and quite often provides over 2. Another important aspect to consider with Minister is that even if it doesn't hit an amalgam or Haunted dead/Stitchwing it gets you 6 cards closer to finding it, and with plenty of discard outlets just drawing them is often enough. Top all that off with making Hub more reliable and providing a crew member for copter, or a chump block and you have a pillar of the deck imo.
Haunted Dead would probably be a better fit in your list than Scrapheap Scrounger. Not only does he have a higher casting cost making him a great emerge target. He also works better with Decimator. 2 bodies getting pumped is better than 1 body. Also he can block. Important for a deck that gets off to a slow start like this one.
Traverse seems a bit wasted in your list. You have 5 total card types, and 2 of those card types are just 4 each. It seems most of the time, it will just be mana fixing. If that's why you have it, Attune with Aether is probably a much better card, plus it can get you into some other energy cards. Having decent energy generation and good removal like Die Young (good for the budget player, that is ) can make your deck better equipped to survive the early onslaught of faster decks.
I think that's where I'd start and then get some playtesting in to see where to go next.
So I've been playing with the pure grixis list and i'm happy with the mainboard but the sideboard was weak in the current meta so i changed the sideboard up here's my findings
I was wondering, has anyone tested a Grixis build running Advanced Stitchwing in place of Scrounger? Entirely out of curiosity, since I don't have any scroungers at the moment but have left over stitchwings from the UR version.
I was wondering, has anyone tested a Grixis build running Advanced Stitchwing in place of Scrounger? Entirely out of curiosity, since I don't have any scroungers at the moment but have left over stitchwings from the UR version.
I've been playing that for a while and have had good results with it. Here's a thread of a guy Top 4'd GP Denver, so there might be something there.
It's equally good against Mardu Vehicles. Instant speed sweepers is perfect against them. I play UR, but I'm wondering if BR or Grixis also has game too. Not looking to switch, just curious.
It's equally good against Mardu Vehicles. Instant speed sweepers is perfect against them. I play UR, but I'm wondering if BR or Grixis also has game too. Not looking to switch, just curious.
The UR version gives us access to Fevered Visions which help us with saheeli matches. Compared to the BR version. I dont know at the moment what will be the upside of having access to black but the UR currently is looking solid. Another top ppace from MTGO
I have a policy when it comes to card drawing and combo decks: NEVER GIVE COMBO DECKS EXTRA CARDS!! I'm not a Saheeli player, but I'm assuming they don't drop out an unprotected Saheeli. If I saw a Fevered Visions on the board, I'd just wait until I could drop both and win on the same turn and just be thankful that I was getting extra cards to help me get there. Visions is a great card against Control and midrange decks, but it's lousy against aggro and combo.
Black isn't a dead color in the format, I don't think. Distended Mindbender rips 2 cards, and that's nothing to scoff at. There's a lot of top decks out there that are using cards that die easily to Fatal Push. There's utility in Grixis, I just have a hard time getting the mana base right to make it effective. When you get the mana right, it feels diluted. You want early R, and doubles of BB and UU. It's a higher mana count and you end up losing a lot of the explosiveness that comes from having playsets of Voices and Reunion.
There are variants of saheeli the pure combo and control. Most in my meta uses the control version thus using fevered vision has its upside. I do agree that is why it will be removed post board against aggro. Adding black gives us access to fatal push and other removal but as you mentioned you lose the explosiveness. I think the meta we are playing can be the deciding factor. Should remove fevered visions? Should I add black for removal? This can be answered by the meta in your LGS
I haven't played a Grixis version of zombies since SOI, after ENM came out and added in more zombies and emerge creatures, no matter how many times I've tried, it keeps seeming like Izzet or Rakdos is the way to go. Grixis just seems to be trying to do too much.
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liliana in the main is...interesting. maybe not the full 4x, but just 2 of them might take the spot of key to the city. the deck is fully capable of using her vs more aggressive decks and defending her with kozilek's return and surprise spirit tokens.
against a deck maindecking 4 liliana the best strategy would be to play the aggro role i assume.
Here's what I'm working with and could definitely use as much group-think on it as possible.
4 Minister of Inquiries
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Haunted Dead
4 Stitchwing Skaab
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Elder Deep-Fiend
2 Wretched Gryff
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Kozilek's Return
Land (25)
1 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Island
3 Mountain
3 Choked Estuary
2 Smoldering Marsh
2 Swamp
2 Sanctum of Ugin
The mana felt okay, if not a little underwhelming in my testing tonight. I was playing against RW vehicles, but this feels like a good match-up, so it may not be representative of how the mana would effect other matches. Im open to suggestions.
I feel like the deck doesn't really want Minister of Inquiries if you aren't using the energy for Aether Hub. And I feel like if you cut the Ministers, then Smuggler's Copter gets a lot worse. My first idea was -3 Smuggler's Copter +3 Lightning Axe, but I don't really know what to do with the Ministers, maybe Tormenting Voice? Then if I add Tormenting Voice and Lightning axe, I feel like i'd benefit from some fiery temper. Again, open to any suggestions.
Thanks guys!
Another interesting cards to consider would be Voldaren Pariah, perhaps out of the side replacing gryffs in builds that still run scrapheap scroungers.
EDH: Borborygmos Enraged, Sedris, The Traitor King
60 Card: Grixis Delver, Living End, Shardless BUG, Ninjas
Advanced Stitchwing may be better, haven't tested with it much because I feel the cheaper recursion cost on Skaab is better
I also noticed a major difference in our play styles, and wanted to ask everyone's opinion on it. When I play the deck, I almost never drop a 5th land unless it's Sanctum of Ugin. In fact, I rarely even drop my 4th land on time, I usually hold my lands to pitch to the many discard outlets. The 4th land usually does hit the battlefield, but only when I'm actually Emerging a creature, or am looking to cast one of the 4 drop creatures. My opponent however played more traditionally going up to 6-8 lands every game.
Anyways, I feel like the deck is great, and the only thing I'm still wondering is if the 2nd Wretched Gryff (or something else) should be the 4th Smuggler's Copter. Copter is the real deal in the deck, by the way. It just lets you put the pressure on early against more dursly draws out if your opponent.
Played ok but I felt I was fighting against my own awkward mana and draws more than my opponent in most games. It just didn't execute the emerge plan consistently and I was often just hellbent with a weak board facing threats I had no answer to.
I am planning BR madness going forward with more interaction and more aggression.
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Wretched Gryff
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Haunted Dead
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Kozilek's return
4 Cathartic reunion
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Lightning Axe
1 Fiery Temper
Standard lands but of note I wasn't running Aether Hubs.
Played against Grixis emerge, BG delerium, UW flash-loss, BR agro, RG energy. Cut to top 8, Grixis midrange-loss.
It wasn't a bad run really, K-return and deepfiends were just lackluster for me all day. I guess I would want more ministers and the aether hubs as I really want to see amalgams in the GY more consistently and need better mana.
I was very leery on Minister in the beginning, but I wouldn't run less than 4 now. I ran the math a few different ways, and minister almost always provides over a card worth a value from activating it twice, and quite often provides over 2. Another important aspect to consider with Minister is that even if it doesn't hit an amalgam or Haunted dead/Stitchwing it gets you 6 cards closer to finding it, and with plenty of discard outlets just drawing them is often enough. Top all that off with making Hub more reliable and providing a crew member for copter, or a chump block and you have a pillar of the deck imo.
4x Elder Deep Fiend
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Haunted Dead
2x Distended Mindbender
4x Scrapheap Scrounger
2x Decimator of the Provinces
4x Grapple with the Past
4x Tormenting Voice
4x Kozileks Return
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
Lands:
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Sanctum of ugin
3x forest
3x Island
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
2x Botanical Sanctum
2x Cinder glade
1x Spire bluff
1x Blooming Marsh
This is my kind of budgety list that i haven't gotten to play yet
Traverse seems a bit wasted in your list. You have 5 total card types, and 2 of those card types are just 4 each. It seems most of the time, it will just be mana fixing. If that's why you have it, Attune with Aether is probably a much better card, plus it can get you into some other energy cards. Having decent energy generation and good removal like Die Young (good for the budget player, that is ) can make your deck better equipped to survive the early onslaught of faster decks.
I think that's where I'd start and then get some playtesting in to see where to go next.
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Cryptbreaker
4 Elder Deep-Fiend
4 Haunted Dead
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Prized Amalgam
2 Wretched Gryff
Land:
2 Island
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Spirebluff Canal
3 Sunken Hollow
2 Perpetual Timepiece
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Cathartic Reunion
4x Unlicensed Disintegration
2x Distended Mindbender
1x Kozilek's Return
3x Stitchwing Skaab
3x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Demolish
I think with GB on the rise, this aint a bad after all
The UR version gives us access to Fevered Visions which help us with saheeli matches. Compared to the BR version. I dont know at the moment what will be the upside of having access to black but the UR currently is looking solid. Another top ppace from MTGO
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14732&f=ST
Black isn't a dead color in the format, I don't think. Distended Mindbender rips 2 cards, and that's nothing to scoff at. There's a lot of top decks out there that are using cards that die easily to Fatal Push. There's utility in Grixis, I just have a hard time getting the mana base right to make it effective. When you get the mana right, it feels diluted. You want early R, and doubles of BB and UU. It's a higher mana count and you end up losing a lot of the explosiveness that comes from having playsets of Voices and Reunion.