I was looking on the U/R/x control thread and they mentioned Dampening Pulse vs 4c Saheeli. It neuters their deck and they can't get rid of it, outside the rarely played Nahiri. What do people think?
Anyone know of any answers in U/B to a resolved Dynavolt tower? I went 2-2 with the wins against B/G and Saheeli Twin decks and both losses against U/R Tower burn decks.
Straight UB does not have good answers to a resolved tower. You could try bouncing it with disperse or leave in the dust, hoping to counter it on the way back, but none of those are exciting options (the first option is -1 card advantage, since you spend two cards to answer 1 of theirs, the second one is card neutral because of the cantrip but you'll spend somewhere between 5-7 mana to counter a 3 mana spell... the tempo loss could be critical vs counter/burn decks like UR).
This is one of the reasons why pure UB is an iffy ide in this meta (tower decks are not "rampant", but they show up in reasonable numbers -specially online- and you need a way to deal with them besides "counter it").
I was looking on the U/R/x control thread and they mentioned Dampening Pulse vs 4c Saheeli. It neuters their deck and they can't get rid of it, outside the rarely played Nahiri. What do people think?
Its interesting, but I'm not convinced. The problem w/ Saheeli is that it has a "combo half" and a "non-combo half" (refiner + virtuoso & tokens beatdowns + Chandra & Oath burns). This card shuts down the combo and the virtuoso tokens... but if I'm tapping 4 mana sorcery speed I want a hard answer to the board, not a soft one. Your opponent can still burn you out with chandra and the oath (blinking chandra with an 0/4 cat and getting 4 to the face -2 from chandra and 2 from her oath- is still a play they can make). Also, you'll still need to invest extra cards to beat the virtuoso and refiner beatdown (yes, they'll be dampened beatdows, but at some point you'll need to stop them). I think it's worth trying out, but with some skepticism.
Hello everyone, I started to think about put Confiscation Coup Against both GB aggro, stealing a creature with many counters on it (Even a gearhulk if glimmer was used before) AND to try and steal some Dynavolt Towers. Could this be the answer to artifacts UB need so much?
Hello everyone, I started to think about put Confiscation Coup Against both GB aggro, stealing a creature with many counters on it (Even a gearhulk if glimmer was used before) AND to try and steal some Dynavolt Towers. Could this be the answer to artifacts UB need so much?
Pricey, but a big swing. I'll definitely test this out.
I was looking on the U/R/x control thread and they mentioned Dampening Pulse vs 4c Saheeli. It neuters their deck and they can't get rid of it, outside the rarely played Nahiri. What do people think?
They usually have sideboard answers to Authority of the Consuls so answering Dampening Pulse wouldn't be any more or less difficult. Now, if you're looking for redundant hate, that's fine, but to say they can't deal with it is wrong.
4c Saheeli is generally running Natural State which doesn't hit Dampening Pulse, so unless they adjust specifically to address it it works beautifully. If you're playing control and you can't fend off 3cmc 1/3s and 2/2s and a 4cmc sorcery blink trick, idk how you're beating anything else tbh. For me the hardest part was always the pinch between dealing with the tokens and protecting myself from the combo, and Pulse lets me ignore both permanently.
Confiscation Coup definitely seems like the best U/B answer to Dynavolt Tower, it should probably be played in every blue deck really.
4c Saheeli is generally running Natural State which doesn't hit Dampening Pulse, so unless they adjust specifically to address it it works beautifully. If you're playing control and you can't fend off 3cmc 1/3s and 2/2s and a 4cmc sorcery blink trick, idk how you're beating anything else tbh. For me the hardest part was always the pinch between dealing with the tokens and protecting myself from the combo, and Pulse lets me ignore both permanently.
Confiscation Coup definitely seems like the best U/B answer to Dynavolt Tower, it should probably be played in every blue deck really.
I've run Confiscation Coup as a 2-of in Kaladesh Standard. It was cute but not good enough. Tapping down that much to answer a Tower, in particular, seems extremely inefficient and puts you in a bind. I mean how is that more efficient than just playing Malfunction (a card I also don't like)? As I've said before, if artifacts and enchantments are that much of a problem, you're probably better off with a white splash to answer those cards efficiently. Otherwise, you're just doomed to getting blown out by those things. I mean waiting until turn 5 to deal with a 3-CMC artifact doesn't sound like a great idea. Even if you steal one, what happens when they play another or if they have two Towers in play anyway? Are you going to keep trying to steal them? Then imagine the pain of trying to steal that card on the draw when you're probably already behind. UR/x Tower decks are faster than us have no issues tapping out unlike this deck (unless we're playing tapout superfriends), but they can play the reactive game as well as we can after going to the sideboard. Not to mention, Fevered Visions is the card that terrifies me the most in this match.
All that said, I'll be interested to see how it works for all of you who are going to try it.
Has your list changed much recently Chaos? Seeing GB seem to be going more aggro and Mardu are playing Ballista.
I've been having a few issues with mine. SB is a bit out of date for the meta, but mb is current. I'm not sure if I should be running sweepers mb or not, it feels stupid not to, but the available sweepers are pretty bad imo.
I have added sweepers. I'm actually contemplating gearing my deck to face-off against midrange decks more than other control decks. 4C Saheeli doesn't really play control at all on the stack so counter magic seems pretty weak against them. Here's my current 75.
I've won a few FNMs with it. Against metagame decks, I have a really positive match and game winning percentage. The only glaring issue is against GB decks of all sorts. With my older lists that went away from a flash-control hybrid sideboard, I found that the games often went long enough to allow GB opponents back into the game. Also, with that in mind, the sideboard Kalitas is sometimes a second Archangel Avacyn instead. It really depends on if I plan on seeing more Mardu Vehicles or pure midrange decks, such as GB decks and company.
I can't give up Sorin. He's just been too good. Baral has been unexpectedly decent even though I was just testing it for craps 'n giggles. I can tell some of my opponents really didn't want to waste removal on him. If they do, that's fine. If they don't, he tends to net me some value, especially when I'm using counter magic via Torrential Gearhulk. I may add another to the main deck for testing this week. Normally, the spot Baral occupies would a counter spell or other utility spell.
EDIT: For some reason, Sorin, Grim Nemesis doesn't show up in my deck list. /shrug
As far as the Walking Ballista infestation, I'm not too concerned. Most of the time, they either only put 1 counter on it hoping to gain value over multiple turns so it's not an immediate threat, or they're hoping to do some serious damage. In the latter case, a counter spell is just a blow out. Even if it lands, the largest one I've seen from a casting is a 4/4 Ballista. Usually that's not life threatening so I either kill it later or with surprise blocks from Torrential Gearhulk. Then they have to decide if fighting for the board is worth not damaging me.
In the big picture, control decks are going to need a way to finish games effectively. These aggro and midrange decks have too much staying power due to the absurd creatures R&D decides to keep printing. Relying on Torrential Gearhulk beats just isn't going to get it done these days. At least not without something like Metallurgic Summonings. It may be time to seriously consider going in on the Summonings plan if you don't want or have access to a flash type build or a superfriends sideboard.
I actually really like this list. Really like it. Mind if I give it a whirl for my pptq on the weekend?
What's your rough sb plan vs say gb/midrange, mardu, 4c saheeli and temur tower. I'd probably get it decently correct but it's my weakest aspect as a player.
What do you mean by waste removal on Baral? It's basically the only creature there. Wouldn't it eat removal?
I actually really like this list. Really like it. Mind if I give it a whirl for my pptq on the weekend?
What's your rough sb plan vs say gb/midrange, mardu, 4c saheeli and temur tower. I'd probably get it decently correct but it's my weakest aspect as a player.
What do you mean by waste removal on Baral? It's basically the only creature there. Wouldn't it eat removal?
You may also want to consider gambling on them siding out a lot of removal by bringing in 3 Spell Queller. If you do, you'll probably want to keep a couple Negate in the main deck, dump all three Anticipate and cut Sorin, one Gearhulk and a land.
vs Mardu Vehicles (this is tricky because there's also a Mardu superfriends. They could also be using a transformation sideboard to become a Mardu superfriends deck)
-3 Anticipate
-2 Disallow
-1 Anguished Unmaking
Oddly enough this sideboard plan tends to work well against superfriends and vehicles, but you'll have a lot of dead removal against the superfriends list, which isn't the end of the world.
vs 4C Saheeli
-4 Fatal Push
-1 Disallow
-2 Anticipate (could also cut Baral in place of one Anticipate)
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 Kalitas or Archangel Avacyn (depends on play/draw and what type of stuff they're on. Some bring in Aetherworks Marvel)
+3 Spell Queller
+2 Negate
Baral is a decent blocker for most of their ground army. Yahenni's Expertise is really good with Anguished Unmaking in hand if they have Saheeli Rai on the board as well. Otherwise, you always need to keep up a Grasp of Darkness, Negate or Disallow (or the mana for one) at all times. Good players will keep track of what you're representing even if you don't have it. When you send mixed or false signals, they'll know that they have the green light.
vs Temur Tower (or all UR/x decks)
You really need to play this one by ear. Pay close attention to whether they want to fight you on the stack or not. If they want to play planeswalkers or not. That sort of stuff. I've seen varying kinds of Temur Tower decks. I will say that most of them will cut removal and bring in more counter magic (Negate and Dispel) against a draw-go style deck. So generally you want to cut some removal for the sideboard Negates and Dispel. Be careful about cutting too much or the wrong removal. Every blue mage out there seems to want to slam all their Sphinx of the Final Word into the main when they see counter magic on the other side. Don't panic. Torrential Gearhulk is bigger for one, and you have also have To the Slaughter to bring in as well. I usually board in one Fumigate as insurance if I can swing it.
If they have Towers for sure after going to sideboard (some cut a few or all of them in favor of Fevered Visions), bring in Decommission or you could just bring it in to be safe. They'll definitely have an artifact or enchantment you won't like. Fatal Push is hot garbage in this match. I cut them all immediately. Temur Tower decks specifically make you want To the Slaughter and/or Blessed Alliance if you have it due to Lumbering Falls as well.
As far as the "waste removal on Baral" comment. I threw Baral in there because a friend and I were spitballing how I should shake things up with my deck. He brought up Baral as a possible 3-of and I told him that he was crazy. He eventually convinced me to try it as a 1-of. I gotta admit I was surprised by it. In the end, trying to save Baral isn't important. If your opponent wants to blow it up, that's less removal for Kalitas and Torrential Gearhulk. I'm fine with that all day. If they don't want to blow him up with removal, then Baral can gain incremental value by looting off cards you don't want. That part generally ends up being a little value or decent value. It's not bad for a 2-CMC guy that can wall up or trade with an early Toolcraft Exemplar. The greatest value Baral gets you is making your instants and sorceries cheaper! That's where he does the heavy lifting. 1-CMC Negate? Awesome. 2-CMC Disallow? Fantastic. 3-CMC Glimmer of Genius? I might just pass out.
Bottom line: I still suggest jamming a lot of games against a myriad of decks. This list works for me because I tuned it for how I plan on dealing with stuff. Feel free to change removal, utility and other options to fit your style and/or gameplan. For instance, Sorin, Grim Nemesis isn't for everyone.
I am a returning player to standard and want to pick up some variety of this deck. To the general discussion I am wondering the following: Unsubstantiate? I have had such success with this card in the past. Any reason it's not being run in many of these lists? Dynavolt Tower With the number of instants and sorceries being run, why not include 2?
I see 4x Grasp of Darkness in nearly every build. Is there a reason this card is superior to standard removal in a Vehicle meta?
The list I've drawn up is looking rather different. Not that that is a bad thing.. just like to know if I'm missing a trick.
Thanks.
I am a returning player to standard and want to pick up some variety of this deck. To the general discussion I am wondering the following: Unsubstantiate? I have had such success with this card in the past. Any reason it's not being run in many of these lists? Dynavolt Tower With the number of instants and sorceries being run, why not include 2?
I see 4x Grasp of Darkness in nearly every build. Is there a reason this card is superior to standard removal in a Vehicle meta?
The list I've drawn up is looking rather different. Not that that is a bad thing.. just like to know if I'm missing a trick.
Thanks.
Unsubstantiate is card disadvantage and is really meant for a tempo-oriented deck. UW Flash before the downfall of Smuggler's Copter could have made great use of Unsubstantiate.
There's nothing wrong with Dynavolt Tower in a draw-go shell. I wouldn't touch it in a flash or a "superfriends" style list. I personally don't prefer tapping out unless I'm gaining something at that moment. Dynavolt Tower requires setup on the other hand.
Grasp of Darkness pretty much kills everything in the format that matters except gearhulks, Aethersphere Harvester, some hexproof creatures and a few odds and ends (Herald of Anguish in Grixis Improvise for instance). Fatal Push is really good for 2-CMC or less creatures but triggering revolt in a control deck isn't easy. That makes it unreliable for larger creatures and makes it really suitable for destroying Mardu Vehicles and other aggro-ish decks.
Thanks Chaos. I just noticed, you don't being in the 2nd Kalitas vs Mardu? Why not?
I never seem to need it so I tend to stick with the flash plan. It makes sense to bring it in. If you're more comfortable with a second Kalitas as opposed to Archangel, go for it. My way isn't the only way.
Good answers, thanks. Ignoring for a moment the land base, does this seem a reasonable shell? Is there perhaps a better thread for construction I can post in as it seems these threads tend to be more directed towards perfection the deck notions themselves. Don't think I like Thalia much...
You're mixing elements of several different styles, including Esper Aggro. You can have Superfriends with Dynavolt Tower, but bringing in Spell Queller seems counter-productive. It doesn't work with Baral, Chief of Compliance or Dynavolt Tower. You also have two hard sweepers in Fumigate that Spell Queller doesn't want rained on its head. That part of it is a lesser issue than deals with the Tower and Baral.
Sphinx of the Final Word feels like a lot to place in main deck. Why do you want it in the main? I would prefer to have spells if they're not going to be planeswalkers in your setup. The spell doesn't have to resolve for Dynavolt Tower's energy generation trigger to happen. You just need to cast the spell. To this point, I'm very saddened that many Tower decks don't get creative with the spells they use.
About your spells! So it's cool that you have some amount of removal and counter magic. If you really want to take advantage of the Tower, you should include spells that you can play proactively regardless of the situation. Spells, such as Take Inventory, Transgress the Mind and Anticipate, are really good for this. I personally hate Anticipate (much like Jim Davis!), but I find it to be a necessary deal for smoothing out your "draws" in a way.
I suppose I was attempting to draw together several elements I had come across, in a hope that it would produce a control deck capable of providing tool-box answers. I like the Towers, but I don't see them as a primary focus beyond stretching my removal potential. Sphinx of the Final Word just seems good value, all things considered. Plus the deck is low on win-cons and he does manage to provide additional threats. I need to win eventually!
Torrential Gearhulk is a great card, but not an investment I am presently willing to make. It was mostly this decision that made me go down the Planeswalker root, though as you can now see this creates complications with supporting cards. I agree regards Thalia. The little testing I have done with my present shell makes her a wasted space.
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This is one of the reasons why pure UB is an iffy ide in this meta (tower decks are not "rampant", but they show up in reasonable numbers -specially online- and you need a way to deal with them besides "counter it").
Its interesting, but I'm not convinced. The problem w/ Saheeli is that it has a "combo half" and a "non-combo half" (refiner + virtuoso & tokens beatdowns + Chandra & Oath burns). This card shuts down the combo and the virtuoso tokens... but if I'm tapping 4 mana sorcery speed I want a hard answer to the board, not a soft one. Your opponent can still burn you out with chandra and the oath (blinking chandra with an 0/4 cat and getting 4 to the face -2 from chandra and 2 from her oath- is still a play they can make). Also, you'll still need to invest extra cards to beat the virtuoso and refiner beatdown (yes, they'll be dampened beatdows, but at some point you'll need to stop them). I think it's worth trying out, but with some skepticism.
Pricey, but a big swing. I'll definitely test this out.
They usually have sideboard answers to Authority of the Consuls so answering Dampening Pulse wouldn't be any more or less difficult. Now, if you're looking for redundant hate, that's fine, but to say they can't deal with it is wrong.
Confiscation Coup definitely seems like the best U/B answer to Dynavolt Tower, it should probably be played in every blue deck really.
Esper Control
I've personally seen some run Naturalize or Appetite for the Unnatural because of the 3-CMC clause of Natural State biting people in the butt (think Panharmonicon, Aetherworks Marvel and Aetherflux Reservoir). Everyone doesn't rip their complete deck from mtgtop8.com, especially when past experience dictates that you should do otherwise.
I've run Confiscation Coup as a 2-of in Kaladesh Standard. It was cute but not good enough. Tapping down that much to answer a Tower, in particular, seems extremely inefficient and puts you in a bind. I mean how is that more efficient than just playing Malfunction (a card I also don't like)? As I've said before, if artifacts and enchantments are that much of a problem, you're probably better off with a white splash to answer those cards efficiently. Otherwise, you're just doomed to getting blown out by those things. I mean waiting until turn 5 to deal with a 3-CMC artifact doesn't sound like a great idea. Even if you steal one, what happens when they play another or if they have two Towers in play anyway? Are you going to keep trying to steal them? Then imagine the pain of trying to steal that card on the draw when you're probably already behind. UR/x Tower decks are faster than us have no issues tapping out unlike this deck (unless we're playing tapout superfriends), but they can play the reactive game as well as we can after going to the sideboard. Not to mention, Fevered Visions is the card that terrifies me the most in this match.
All that said, I'll be interested to see how it works for all of you who are going to try it.
I've been having a few issues with mine. SB is a bit out of date for the meta, but mb is current. I'm not sure if I should be running sweepers mb or not, it feels stupid not to, but the available sweepers are pretty bad imo.
3x Anguished Unmaking
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Confirm Suspicions
4x Disallow
3x Fatal Push
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Grasp of Darkness
1x Horribly Awry
2x Murder
2x Negate
Planeswalker (3)
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Aether Hub
3x Choked Estuary
1x Concealed Courtyard
3x Evolving Wilds
3x Island
1x Plains
3x Prairie Stream
2x Shambling Vent
4x Sunken Hollow
4x Swamp
Creature (6)
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Blighted Cataract
1x Decommission
2x Dispel
1x Fatal Push
2x Fathom Feeder
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Metallurgic Summonings
2x Negate
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Baral, Chief of Compliance
Removal (13)
4 Fatal Push
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Murder
3 Anguished Unmaking
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Other Spells (13)
4 Disallow
2 Negate
3 Anticipate
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Prairie Stream
3 Choked Estuary
2 Shambling Vent
2 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Swamp
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Spell Queller
1 Dovin Baan
2 Fumigate
1 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Essence Extraction
1 Decommission
1 To the Slaughter
2 Negate
1 Dispel
I've won a few FNMs with it. Against metagame decks, I have a really positive match and game winning percentage. The only glaring issue is against GB decks of all sorts. With my older lists that went away from a flash-control hybrid sideboard, I found that the games often went long enough to allow GB opponents back into the game. Also, with that in mind, the sideboard Kalitas is sometimes a second Archangel Avacyn instead. It really depends on if I plan on seeing more Mardu Vehicles or pure midrange decks, such as GB decks and company.
I can't give up Sorin. He's just been too good. Baral has been unexpectedly decent even though I was just testing it for craps 'n giggles. I can tell some of my opponents really didn't want to waste removal on him. If they do, that's fine. If they don't, he tends to net me some value, especially when I'm using counter magic via Torrential Gearhulk. I may add another to the main deck for testing this week. Normally, the spot Baral occupies would a counter spell or other utility spell.
EDIT: For some reason, Sorin, Grim Nemesis doesn't show up in my deck list. /shrug
In the big picture, control decks are going to need a way to finish games effectively. These aggro and midrange decks have too much staying power due to the absurd creatures R&D decides to keep printing. Relying on Torrential Gearhulk beats just isn't going to get it done these days. At least not without something like Metallurgic Summonings. It may be time to seriously consider going in on the Summonings plan if you don't want or have access to a flash type build or a superfriends sideboard.
What's your rough sb plan vs say gb/midrange, mardu, 4c saheeli and temur tower. I'd probably get it decently correct but it's my weakest aspect as a player.
What do you mean by waste removal on Baral? It's basically the only creature there. Wouldn't it eat removal?
Do whatever you want with it!
vs GB
-2 Negate
-1 Yahenni's Expertise
-1 Torrential Gearhulk
-1 Baral, Chief of Compliance
+2 Fumigate
+1 Kalitas
+1 Archangel Avacyn
+1 Decommission (Lifecrafter's Bestiary, Verdurous Gearhulk, Walking Ballista and vehicles)
You may also want to consider gambling on them siding out a lot of removal by bringing in 3 Spell Queller. If you do, you'll probably want to keep a couple Negate in the main deck, dump all three Anticipate and cut Sorin, one Gearhulk and a land.
vs Mardu Vehicles (this is tricky because there's also a Mardu superfriends. They could also be using a transformation sideboard to become a Mardu superfriends deck)
-3 Anticipate
-2 Disallow
-1 Anguished Unmaking
+1 Archangel Avacyn
+3 Spell Queller
+1 Dovin Baan
+1 Essence Extraction
Oddly enough this sideboard plan tends to work well against superfriends and vehicles, but you'll have a lot of dead removal against the superfriends list, which isn't the end of the world.
vs 4C Saheeli
-4 Fatal Push
-1 Disallow
-2 Anticipate (could also cut Baral in place of one Anticipate)
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 Kalitas or Archangel Avacyn (depends on play/draw and what type of stuff they're on. Some bring in Aetherworks Marvel)
+3 Spell Queller
+2 Negate
Baral is a decent blocker for most of their ground army. Yahenni's Expertise is really good with Anguished Unmaking in hand if they have Saheeli Rai on the board as well. Otherwise, you always need to keep up a Grasp of Darkness, Negate or Disallow (or the mana for one) at all times. Good players will keep track of what you're representing even if you don't have it. When you send mixed or false signals, they'll know that they have the green light.
vs Temur Tower (or all UR/x decks)
You really need to play this one by ear. Pay close attention to whether they want to fight you on the stack or not. If they want to play planeswalkers or not. That sort of stuff. I've seen varying kinds of Temur Tower decks. I will say that most of them will cut removal and bring in more counter magic (Negate and Dispel) against a draw-go style deck. So generally you want to cut some removal for the sideboard Negates and Dispel. Be careful about cutting too much or the wrong removal. Every blue mage out there seems to want to slam all their Sphinx of the Final Word into the main when they see counter magic on the other side. Don't panic. Torrential Gearhulk is bigger for one, and you have also have To the Slaughter to bring in as well. I usually board in one Fumigate as insurance if I can swing it.
If they have Towers for sure after going to sideboard (some cut a few or all of them in favor of Fevered Visions), bring in Decommission or you could just bring it in to be safe. They'll definitely have an artifact or enchantment you won't like. Fatal Push is hot garbage in this match. I cut them all immediately. Temur Tower decks specifically make you want To the Slaughter and/or Blessed Alliance if you have it due to Lumbering Falls as well.
As far as the "waste removal on Baral" comment. I threw Baral in there because a friend and I were spitballing how I should shake things up with my deck. He brought up Baral as a possible 3-of and I told him that he was crazy. He eventually convinced me to try it as a 1-of. I gotta admit I was surprised by it. In the end, trying to save Baral isn't important. If your opponent wants to blow it up, that's less removal for Kalitas and Torrential Gearhulk. I'm fine with that all day. If they don't want to blow him up with removal, then Baral can gain incremental value by looting off cards you don't want. That part generally ends up being a little value or decent value. It's not bad for a 2-CMC guy that can wall up or trade with an early Toolcraft Exemplar. The greatest value Baral gets you is making your instants and sorceries cheaper! That's where he does the heavy lifting. 1-CMC Negate? Awesome. 2-CMC Disallow? Fantastic. 3-CMC Glimmer of Genius? I might just pass out.
Bottom line: I still suggest jamming a lot of games against a myriad of decks. This list works for me because I tuned it for how I plan on dealing with stuff. Feel free to change removal, utility and other options to fit your style and/or gameplan. For instance, Sorin, Grim Nemesis isn't for everyone.
I am a returning player to standard and want to pick up some variety of this deck. To the general discussion I am wondering the following:
Unsubstantiate? I have had such success with this card in the past. Any reason it's not being run in many of these lists?
Dynavolt Tower With the number of instants and sorceries being run, why not include 2?
I see 4x Grasp of Darkness in nearly every build. Is there a reason this card is superior to standard removal in a Vehicle meta?
The list I've drawn up is looking rather different. Not that that is a bad thing.. just like to know if I'm missing a trick.
Thanks.
If the board is empty or I just need to dig, I generally use the -1.
Unsubstantiate is card disadvantage and is really meant for a tempo-oriented deck. UW Flash before the downfall of Smuggler's Copter could have made great use of Unsubstantiate.
There's nothing wrong with Dynavolt Tower in a draw-go shell. I wouldn't touch it in a flash or a "superfriends" style list. I personally don't prefer tapping out unless I'm gaining something at that moment. Dynavolt Tower requires setup on the other hand.
Grasp of Darkness pretty much kills everything in the format that matters except gearhulks, Aethersphere Harvester, some hexproof creatures and a few odds and ends (Herald of Anguish in Grixis Improvise for instance). Fatal Push is really good for 2-CMC or less creatures but triggering revolt in a control deck isn't easy. That makes it unreliable for larger creatures and makes it really suitable for destroying Mardu Vehicles and other aggro-ish decks.
I never seem to need it so I tend to stick with the flash plan. It makes sense to bring it in. If you're more comfortable with a second Kalitas as opposed to Archangel, go for it. My way isn't the only way.
Sorcery (2)
2x Fumigate
Artifact (2)
2x Dynavolt Tower
Instant (17)
2x Anguished Unmaking
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Murder
3x Void Shatter
3x Baral, Chief of Compliance
3x Spell Queller
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Planeswalker (5)
2x Dovin Baan
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Anguished Unmaking
3x Blessed Alliance
3x Disallow
2x Fumigate
3x Negate
3x Transgress the Mind
Sphinx of the Final Word feels like a lot to place in main deck. Why do you want it in the main? I would prefer to have spells if they're not going to be planeswalkers in your setup. The spell doesn't have to resolve for Dynavolt Tower's energy generation trigger to happen. You just need to cast the spell. To this point, I'm very saddened that many Tower decks don't get creative with the spells they use.
About your spells! So it's cool that you have some amount of removal and counter magic. If you really want to take advantage of the Tower, you should include spells that you can play proactively regardless of the situation. Spells, such as Take Inventory, Transgress the Mind and Anticipate, are really good for this. I personally hate Anticipate (much like Jim Davis!), but I find it to be a necessary deal for smoothing out your "draws" in a way.
Is there a reason for the lack of Torrential Gearhulk?
Thalia seems out of place in the deck. It's more suited to decks that have an aggressive tilt.
I suppose I was attempting to draw together several elements I had come across, in a hope that it would produce a control deck capable of providing tool-box answers. I like the Towers, but I don't see them as a primary focus beyond stretching my removal potential. Sphinx of the Final Word just seems good value, all things considered. Plus the deck is low on win-cons and he does manage to provide additional threats. I need to win eventually!
Torrential Gearhulk is a great card, but not an investment I am presently willing to make. It was mostly this decision that made me go down the Planeswalker root, though as you can now see this creates complications with supporting cards. I agree regards Thalia. The little testing I have done with my present shell makes her a wasted space.