There is no way I would touch Confirm Suspicions in a 3-color deck. I barely think it's worth playing in a two-color deck.
I'm off control for Game Day as well. UW seems to be doing the best for me, but I aggressive plans seem more consistent. Watching too many control players locally struggle.
It's more of a resilient threat than Archangel. Sure, you can flash in Archangel but she normally never flips and her enter the battlefield ability is pretty irrelevant in my deck. I also like the fact that you can embalm Glyph Keeper, which can potentially make him a 4 for 1 card (or 2 if you see embalming him as a new card). You can also allow the first spell the opponent cast on him resolve and counter the second one.
I don't understand your last comment. Also Enbalm is great but too bad the token dies to Fatal Push.
I've been gold-fishing an Esper list tonight and I am not happy. I was thinking UB but your list is intruiging. I don't have the new Gideon or Intervention for FNM. Any suggestions for replacements in the board?
Metallurgic summonings is such cool card. Cut Sorin for Torrential Gearhulk. Way too much value along side Summonings. Its a 3 for 1.
And cut a 3cmc counter spell for a Confirm Suspicions. its practically a 6 for 1 with Gearhulk/Summonings.
Also, what you pay for x in Pull from Tomorrow gets you an artifact construct of that size plus 2.
Control decks, in my straightest opinion, should stick to two colors. Unless you have fetchlands
Anyone here not playing control for Game Day?
And if you get rid of Sorin you can run straight UB! Why Horribly Awry over Essence Scatter, and why 4 Summonings? Having Summonings early is nice, but two in opening hand is rough.
Edit: I love Sorin but not in this list. The Tezzeret in the sideboard is a nice touch! Gotten him to do work?
Considering a lot of people are running W/U lists, can I ask why no one has considered Cataclysmic Gearhulk? I have not done any testing, but am interested why it's not so far been considered for the list.
Considering a lot of people are running W/U lists, can I ask why no one has considered Cataclysmic Gearhulk? I have not done any testing, but am interested why it's not so far been considered for the list.
might be good against Zombies. Worthless against Mardu Midrange and Marvel.
@Fildrigar - That could be done early game as well, you just Engulf on their end step and then either hardcast Memory on your turn or drop a land and pass and Gearhulk on their next turn, so really only 5-6 mana required. Obviously it would be ideal to have enough mana to get the first crack at the fresh hands.
Having said that, do you have much experience with Memory? I have cast it in competitive magic 7-8 times in the past few weeks and it has an EXTREMELY high degree of variance, so IMHO it should be treated as an emergency button rather than a plan. Case in point, my opponent sideboarded in 1 Approach and I cast Memory before he could draw it to cast it a second time and it ended up in his new hand along with 2 counters.
I'm fully aware of the danger of refilling my opponent's hand. I played with Timetwister quite a bit back in 93-94. I brought an Engulf the Sun deck to my LGS last weekend and played in a 24 player tournament. I was leaning much more heavily on Glimmer and Pull for card draw, even though I had three Memories in my deck. I only cast Memory twice, both times sweeping away their 8+ card hands. It's still nice to have the option to refill your own hand even if you're not getting card advantage out of it. It does suck to remove good Gearhulk targets from your graveyard. It's a powerful tool yo have available, but should be used with caution.
His ability says "Whenever Glyph Keeper becomes the target of a spell or ability for the first time each turn, counter that spell or ability". So even if they cast Fatal Push and it resolves they will need to cast another kill spell to kill Glyph Keeper.
That makes sense, I thought you were trying to share some next level interpretation of his ability.
I'm not a fan of Artistry. I am, however, an increasing fan of Mind's Dilation. Best result of it was countering an Ulamog with a revealed Essence Scatter... I'm also thinking that 3 Summonings is still too much. My list right now is running 2 and a Dilation.
Shaheen Soorani has a new list up on SCG, with a main deck Sphinx, which could be worth a shot. He's also playing some Complete Disregard and no Flaying Tendrils at all in the 75. I've tweaked it a little, and while I don't think I'll have it in shape for Game Day (playing mono-Red "control"), I'll be breaking it out for next FNM.
In the list, I've also gone back to wanting to try the transitional sideboard to Dynavolt Tower against aggro (i.e. Zombie) decks. My current list -
Thanks for sharing! Shaheen's list is perfect for my meta and I own all the cards already. I'll be taking it to Game Day
EDIT: I've only got 2 Hieroglyphic so I'm going to run Shaheen's list -1 Hiero +1 Never and see how it goes. I also changed his sideboard a little: -1 Yahenni's Expertise +1 To the Slaughter -1 Complete Disregard +1 Dispel based on my meta.
Well I got 2nd in fnm, 2-0 against G/W Humans, 2-1 against Grixis control, 2-0 against G/B Constrictor, and 0-1 against B/W aristrocrat. What I have discovered is I need another win con in the deck, 1 approach would go a long way. What do you guys think?
Well I got 2nd in fnm, 2-0 against G/W Humans, 2-1 against Grixis control, 2-0 against G/B Constrictor, and 0-1 against B/W aristrocrat. What I have discovered is I need another win con in the deck, 1 approach would go a long way. What do you guys think?
I came to the same conclusion. I'm going with a MD Sphinx. I need help on the UR Control match, and this should help with Marvel as well. Putting a 2nd in the SB, as I hate losing control matches. Personal thing smh.
Shaheen's UB list is great against Marvel & Aggro (including Zombies) but struggles in control mirrors due to lack of manlands and not having enough counterspells post board. I played 3 Game Days and had 6 control mirror matches this weekend and could fight the long game, but rarely came out on top. URw decks with Fumarole and a single Approach are particularly tough, and I faced that 5 times. I don't play online anymore, but the metagame shifts faster there and this deck might be great if there is less control.
I played with 3 Gearhulks and against the rest of the field the synergy of Lili, GH, Yahenni's Expertise and Kalitas (postboard) is like a dream come true!
So I've made a list similar to Shahern Soorani's before. Besides being had against Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, the deck has issued with hyper-aggressive decks. You can usually stabilize but you generally don't have a solid way of closing out the game quickly or at least creating enough of a buffer so you can get there. Am I alone in this experience with UB with Amonkhet?
His list gets there if you can stabilize. 3 drop Lili is a house. I did get run over by Zombies once, but post board with playsets of Grasp, Push & Yahenni's, aggro is not the problem.
In my local meta UW & URx control are half the field, and Approach wins 25% of the games every round.
Thinking of running this list this weekend for FNM and/or Game Day to try satisfy my desire to play two of my current favorite cards: Metallurgic Summonings and Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
I think the mana base still needs work. I originally had 2x Aether Hub in the Evolving Wilds slot, but Evolving Wilds seems better because it can fetch a basic and turn on Revolt for Fatal Push. Thinking of also trying to work one or two Concealed Courtyards into the mix, but not sure what to cut. Suggestions?
@kpal and @the_falsehate - Thanks for the comments. I made a couple changes and took this list to Game Day:
Ended up going 2-2; good enough for 7th out of 12 players. Lost 0-1-1 to Mono-U Control, beat a GB Counters homebrew 2-0, lost 1-2 to Temur Marvel(?), and beat GB Delerium 2-1.
First time out with the deck, so sideboarding was a struggle. Contraband Kingpincan block for days and combines great with Tezzeret the Schemer, but I never thought to actually side them in. Flaying Tendrilswas in the main because I expected to face at least one Zombie deck. I will probably move both copies to the side and move Never // Return to the main. May cut Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for a second copy of Dispossess to fight Aetherworks Marvel decks.
So I've made a list similar to Shahern Soorani's before. Besides being had against Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, the deck has issued with hyper-aggressive decks. You can usually stabilize but you generally don't have a solid way of closing out the game quickly or at least creating enough of a buffer so you can get there. Am I alone in this experience with UB with Amonkhet?
I took Shaheen's list (tiny bit modified) and I did well against aggressive decks - managed to get a Liliana from Expertise against a mono red deck and won with that. I lost to Gods though. I also have a half-decent practice GB counters deck and I have a bit of troubles against that when I face it. I do miss Cast Out
Baral can do lots of work though. I also have an Essence Extraction and that kept me alive a game or two
I wasn't impressed with the 1-of Baral in the sideboard's ability to consistently make an impact in the rare event that I saw him, so I replaced him with a Gonti, who always made my opponents groan audibly when he hit the board. I'm switching to back to UR Control for the time being, but I like this deck a lot in a meta with less control.
Yep, and UB is horrible in control mirrors. I was on URw but straight UR control seems great right now. I will likely try Esper or two color within Esper when the new set releases if there are enablers.
Yep, and UB is horrible in control mirrors. I was on URw but straight UR control seems great right now. I will likely try Esper or two color within Esper when the new set releases if there are enablers.
Interested to see why you feel UB is unfavored in the control mirror. What does UR or Jeskai get that you don't have access to that actually really matters besides perhaps Dragonmaster Outcast out of the board? In my mind, the black cards make this matchup favorable for the UB deck. In your main deck, Ob Nixilis and Liliana put a ton of pressure on your opponent and your removal is mostly better; at least, I imagine you'll be on some number of Murder in the main, which seems better to me than anything in the other control decks when it comes to fighting over Gearhulks. Also, you have the option to play Blighted Fen to help shore up any weakness to Sphinx of the Final Word, which typically smashes people in the control matchup (not to mention Kefnet or other such nonsense).
In terms of your sideboard you have access to stuff like Transgress, Lay Bare the Heart, Dispossess (if you want to pick that fight), Scarab Feast, Never//Return, etc. Note that I totally understand that you probably aren't going to include all of this stuff in your board right now given the current state of the format, nor do I advocate doing so
So yeah, interested in your position.
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Post Ravnica Allegiance Type 2 - WUB Control
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
I'll have to disagree. UB has access to discard spells, Liliana (returning a gearhulk from graveyard to hand has incredible value) and even things like Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which can be pretty amazing tech on g2.
I've played this matchup a few times, with my UR control, and in my experience, it's very unfavorable. Maybe you're doing something right in that matchup that I don't know about, in which case I'd like to hear it.
Interested to see why you feel UB is unfavored in the control mirror. What does UR or Jeskai get that you don't have access to that actually really matters besides perhaps Dragonmaster Outcast out of the board? In my mind, the black cards make this matchup favorable for the UB deck. In your main deck, Ob Nixilis and Liliana put a ton of pressure on your opponent and your removal is mostly better; at least, I imagine you'll be on some number of Murder in the main, which seems better to me than anything in the other control decks when it comes to fighting over Gearhulks. Also, you have the option to play Blighted Fen to help shore up any weakness to Sphinx of the Final Word, which typically smashes people in the control matchup (not to mention Kefnet or other such nonsense).
In terms of your sideboard you have access to stuff like Transgress, Lay Bare the Heart, Dispossess (if you want to pick that fight), Scarab Feast, Never//Return, etc. Note that I totally understand that you probably aren't going to include all of this stuff in your board right now given the current state of the format, nor do I advocate doing so
I'll have to disagree. UB has access to discard spells, Liliana (returning a gearhulk from graveyard to hand has incredible value) and even things like Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which can be pretty amazing tech on g2.
I've played this matchup a few times, with my UR control, and in my experience, it's very unfavorable. Maybe you're doing something right in that matchup that I don't know about, in which case I'd like to hear it.
UR is favored due to running more counters than any other flavor of control. That's really it. Sphinx is probably the best answer, as they have to have Summary Dismissal to stop it, and it wins all combat except against Torrential Gearhulk. The challenge is getting to 12-ish lands so you can drop Sphinx without them resolving too much on you turn "off". Untapping with Sphinx and a health life total is a gigantic swing in your favor. I'm moving to 3 Lay Bare The Heart SB to help resolve stuff, and try to resolve more draw before dropping Sphinx.
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I'm off control for Game Day as well. UW seems to be doing the best for me, but I aggressive plans seem more consistent. Watching too many control players locally struggle.
I've been gold-fishing an Esper list tonight and I am not happy. I was thinking UB but your list is intruiging. I don't have the new Gideon or Intervention for FNM. Any suggestions for replacements in the board?
Edit: I love Sorin but not in this list. The Tezzeret in the sideboard is a nice touch! Gotten him to do work?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I'm fully aware of the danger of refilling my opponent's hand. I played with Timetwister quite a bit back in 93-94. I brought an Engulf the Sun deck to my LGS last weekend and played in a 24 player tournament. I was leaning much more heavily on Glimmer and Pull for card draw, even though I had three Memories in my deck. I only cast Memory twice, both times sweeping away their 8+ card hands. It's still nice to have the option to refill your own hand even if you're not getting card advantage out of it. It does suck to remove good Gearhulk targets from your graveyard. It's a powerful tool yo have available, but should be used with caution.
Shaheen Soorani has a new list up on SCG, with a main deck Sphinx, which could be worth a shot. He's also playing some Complete Disregard and no Flaying Tendrils at all in the 75. I've tweaked it a little, and while I don't think I'll have it in shape for Game Day (playing mono-Red "control"), I'll be breaking it out for next FNM.
In the list, I've also gone back to wanting to try the transitional sideboard to Dynavolt Tower against aggro (i.e. Zombie) decks. My current list -
1 Blighted Fen
1 Westvale Abbey
2 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Island
6 Swamp
Draw spells (9)
2 Glimmer of Genius
3 Anticipate
4 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Negate
3 Disallow
Removal (14)
1 Never
2 Commit
2 Murder
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Fatal Push
4 Grasp of Darkness
Win-cons (6)
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Metallurgic Summonings
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Negate
1 Never // Return
1 Summary Dismissal
1 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Complete Disregard
2 Dispel
2 Fatal Push
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Dynavolt Tower
EDIT: I've only got 2 Hieroglyphic so I'm going to run Shaheen's list -1 Hiero +1 Never and see how it goes. I also changed his sideboard a little: -1 Yahenni's Expertise +1 To the Slaughter -1 Complete Disregard +1 Dispel based on my meta.
I came to the same conclusion. I'm going with a MD Sphinx. I need help on the UR Control match, and this should help with Marvel as well. Putting a 2nd in the SB, as I hate losing control matches. Personal thing smh.
I played with 3 Gearhulks and against the rest of the field the synergy of Lili, GH, Yahenni's Expertise and Kalitas (postboard) is like a dream come true!
In my local meta UW & URx control are half the field, and Approach wins 25% of the games every round.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
@kpal and @the_falsehate - Thanks for the comments. I made a couple changes and took this list to Game Day:
4 Censor
2 Disallow
1 Horribly Awry
2 Spell Shrivel
2 Void Shatter
(7) Draw Spells
2 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illuminations
4 Pull From Tomorrow
(11) Removal
1 Engulf the Shore
4 Fatal Push
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Unsubstantiate
4 Metallurgic Summonings
1 Torrential Gearhulk
(26) Lands
2 Blighted Fen
4 Choked Estuary
7 Island
1 Port Town
1 Prairie Stream
4 Sunken Hollow
7 Swamp
2 Never // Return
2 Engulf the Shore
2 Contraband Kingpin
3 Negate
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Dispossess
1 Tezzeret the Schemer
Ended up going 2-2; good enough for 7th out of 12 players. Lost 0-1-1 to Mono-U Control, beat a GB Counters homebrew 2-0, lost 1-2 to Temur Marvel(?), and beat GB Delerium 2-1.
First time out with the deck, so sideboarding was a struggle. Contraband Kingpincan block for days and combines great with Tezzeret the Schemer, but I never thought to actually side them in. Flaying Tendrilswas in the main because I expected to face at least one Zombie deck. I will probably move both copies to the side and move Never // Return to the main. May cut Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for a second copy of Dispossess to fight Aetherworks Marvel decks.
I took Shaheen's list (tiny bit modified) and I did well against aggressive decks - managed to get a Liliana from Expertise against a mono red deck and won with that. I lost to Gods though. I also have a half-decent practice GB counters deck and I have a bit of troubles against that when I face it. I do miss Cast Out
Baral can do lots of work though. I also have an Essence Extraction and that kept me alive a game or two
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Interested to see why you feel UB is unfavored in the control mirror. What does UR or Jeskai get that you don't have access to that actually really matters besides perhaps Dragonmaster Outcast out of the board? In my mind, the black cards make this matchup favorable for the UB deck. In your main deck, Ob Nixilis and Liliana put a ton of pressure on your opponent and your removal is mostly better; at least, I imagine you'll be on some number of Murder in the main, which seems better to me than anything in the other control decks when it comes to fighting over Gearhulks. Also, you have the option to play Blighted Fen to help shore up any weakness to Sphinx of the Final Word, which typically smashes people in the control matchup (not to mention Kefnet or other such nonsense).
In terms of your sideboard you have access to stuff like Transgress, Lay Bare the Heart, Dispossess (if you want to pick that fight), Scarab Feast, Never//Return, etc. Note that I totally understand that you probably aren't going to include all of this stuff in your board right now given the current state of the format, nor do I advocate doing so
So yeah, interested in your position.
States '09: 14th place. Aiming for better next year.
States '10: 12th place. Aiming for better next year.
Idaho State Champ: 2011
States '12: 5th place.
I'll have to disagree. UB has access to discard spells, Liliana (returning a gearhulk from graveyard to hand has incredible value) and even things like Glint-sleeve Siphoner, which can be pretty amazing tech on g2.
I've played this matchup a few times, with my UR control, and in my experience, it's very unfavorable. Maybe you're doing something right in that matchup that I don't know about, in which case I'd like to hear it.
UR is favored due to running more counters than any other flavor of control. That's really it. Sphinx is probably the best answer, as they have to have Summary Dismissal to stop it, and it wins all combat except against Torrential Gearhulk. The challenge is getting to 12-ish lands so you can drop Sphinx without them resolving too much on you turn "off". Untapping with Sphinx and a health life total is a gigantic swing in your favor. I'm moving to 3 Lay Bare The Heart SB to help resolve stuff, and try to resolve more draw before dropping Sphinx.