There is another issue, how have you all faired against the Saheeli variations? More often than not I feel like we aren't favored G1, (it didn't matter which control I ran), the Control version seems to be the easier of the two variants. The 4c Saheeli match up is a nightmare.
Game 1 is very difficult. I've beaten them in game 1 in a tournament before, but it took like everything my deck could pony up while it felt they were always just digging for the missing piece. In testing against Jeskai Saheeli, I've learned that while I can win game 1, it's often not worth letting that kind of time run off the clock, especially if you were to go super long and then have your deck go cold on you with your draws. In tournament, I have conceded (in what my opponent even thought was a winning position) because too much time has run off the clock. I'm that confident in my sideboard tech against Jeskai Saheeli. The 4-color variant is the reason I was on 2 sweepers and have now gone back to three sweepers in my 75. They take you to value-town because individually, their aren't any key pieces. However, when any number of their pieces come together, it becomes obnoxious. Now they're even running energy themes to power Aetherworks Marvel for more value-town shenanigans. I'm actually surprised that Jeskai Saheeli is still more popular than the 4-color variant.
Kalitas is MVP second to Gearhulk, in aggro matchup he just shut down their gameplan and buy you alot of time to stabilize. I dont slam him on turn 4-5 I usually slam him on T6-8 since it beneficial to net something once he hit the board and also to protect him with negate or disallow for one turn until your shield are back up
Thank you. This is the correct way to play Kalitas. With back up. Either a counter or a kill spell so that you get instant value. Its the same principle with T-hulk. We usually dont just slam t6 with our pants down.
Maybe in a heavy control mirror you wait, but against most mid range / aggro you always jam gearhulk at 6 mana. For me the question is do I go greedy and slam him during combat and block something. Or do I wait eot. Yes they might have instant speed removal, which is why you cast him eot and get to untap immediately afterwards. Are you seriously suggesting you wait until you have 8+ mana against vehicles or G/B constrictor before casting gearhulk?
Like are you even asking that question? As if no one can respond with Murder or Unlicensed disintegration .
Kalitas is MVP second to Gearhulk, in aggro matchup he just shut down their gameplan and buy you alot of time to stabilize. I dont slam him on turn 4-5 I usually slam him on T6-8 since it beneficial to net something once he hit the board and also to protect him with negate or disallow for one turn until your shield are back up
Thank you. This is the correct way to play Kalitas. With back up. Either a counter or a kill spell so that you get instant value. Its the same principle with T-hulk. We usually dont just slam t6 with our pants down.
Maybe in a heavy control mirror you wait, but against most mid range / aggro you always jam gearhulk at 6 mana. For me the question is do I go greedy and slam him during combat and block something. Or do I wait eot. Yes they might have instant speed removal, which is why you cast him eot and get to untap immediately afterwards. Are you seriously suggesting you wait until you have 8+ mana against vehicles or G/B constrictor before casting gearhulk?
Like are you even asking that question? As if no one can respond with Murder or Unlicensed disintegration .
as for Jeskai Cat combo, our deck shouldn't have any issue winning since we have counter/PW removal (Esper) UB might be a bit harder since their PW removal is sorcery speed. G2 get a bit more tricky as they bring in dispel and take out their removal, as for me I sb in Spell Qualler Archangel avacyn
Lately, with my build of Esper, Saheeli is a cakewalk, BG is draw dependent, but on paper, should be easy, and Mardu is draw dependent. I just went to 4 Fatal Push main, but I'm having a lot of consistency issues. I'm on 2 Anticipate right now, after trying 0 Jim Davis style and compromising to 2. I also went down to 26 MD land with Blighted Fen (VERY good so far) in the SB to mitigate flooding. I seem to lose from running out of gas and not having enough removal mid game. Unsure of what to do next. I think I will try Dynavolt Tower as repeatable removal since I have no energy uses besides my 2 Aether Hub.
Lately, with my build of Esper, Saheeli is a cakewalk, BG is draw dependent, but on paper, should be easy, and Mardu is draw dependent. I just went to 4 Fatal Push main, but I'm having a lot of consistency issues. I'm on 2 Anticipate right now, after trying 0 Jim Davis style and compromising to 2. I also went down to 26 MD land with Blighted Fen (VERY good so far) in the SB to mitigate flooding. I seem to lose from running out of gas and not having enough removal mid game. Unsure of what to do next. I think I will try Dynavolt Tower as repeatable removal since I have no energy uses besides my 2 Aether Hub.
I have had much the same results as you with my build of Esper. I won my Game Day, going 3-1-1 in the Swiss and beating BG aggro, GW, and RW Vehicles in the elimination rounds (I had lost to the RW Vehicles deck in the Swiss). I think control will continue to have consistency issues with the present metagame (drawing the wrong half of the deck at the wrong time) and no big "I win" spells like Sphinx's Revelation. I do like the idea of a Blighted Fen in the SB, and I may try that against non-Vehicles decks.
I hope you have better results that I did with Dynavolt Tower. I was disappointed with it -- it just didn't seem to have as powerful an effect as it does in Jeskai or UR Control, since Harnessed Lightning is an additional energy benefit/generator that Esper and UB don't have.
I keep seeing in this thread that Esper control/UB Control runs out of gas and fails the remove all threats on time or that the mana base is not consistent or really shaky.
If you guys feel like going to a more consistent control version, come and take a look out the deck I'm brewing. I'm currently 10-3 (2 friendly leagues 4-1 and 2-1 at 1vs1 on MTGO)
New to the deck, but very familiar with control strategies. Decided to take the above list to both of my game days and went 4-0 and 3-1 respectively. I probably need to play some number of Kalitas to help protect against Colossus and Scrounger. Lost against B/U colossus in the finals of my second game day. I was lucky to dodge the match up day 1.
Beat Jeskai Copycat 2-0 Match-up seemed good simply because I never tap-out and have WAY more interaction then they do. Only issue I can see is an early resolved saheeli.
Beat B/R Aggro 2-1 Scrounger is a pain in the ass, even with Awry, Shatter, and Disregard. Outside of that I had enough removal for the random crap they tried to throw at me. Disregard on scrounger was a big help and I was eventually able to just stick a Gearhulk and not care about the recursive piece of crap.
Beat R/W vehicles Twice 2-0 both times. Went against this guy both days. Was actually really straightforward. No scrounger meant I could just kill everything. I always just left up counter magic to make sure a chandra or gideon didn't resolve.
Beat G/B Delirium Twice 2-1 and 2-1. Big balistas were slightly worrying and a turn 3 lili on the play was a big problem. Bringing in Gifted Aetherborn as an aggressive and defensive threat helped keep my life high enough and pressure lili, and generally all of my answers lined up very well, so a win wasn't terribly hard.
Lost to Colossus 1-2 I managed to steal a game by chaining multiple gearhulks and keeping him off of a bunch of early artifacts, but the recursive 10/10 is just very hard to deal with and if the decks draw doesn't line up to what he's doing in that game, I just get rekt. Outside of kalitas, I don't know what to add to the board to improve this match-up.
Beat Panharmonica Combo 2-1 Deck was trying to set up double felidar guardian with panharmonica to set up infinite mana, then trigger any ETB to search for ballista and kill the opponent. Deck was actually kind of challenging because EVERYTHING replaced itself when it entered (Cloudblazer, refiner, glint-nest crane, prophetic prism and felidar) and it backed it up with countermagic. Good news is that most of the creatures are tiny, so I just had to make sure things didn't snowball.
Overall, I feel like the deck performed pretty well with some slight issues dealing with recurring threats, but was prone to somewhat polarizing draws. Maxing anticipate actually helped this a bit, and it was a bit easier to play catch up thanks to having a good 1 mana answer to cheap threats. Horribly awry felt kind of subpar, and could probably be replaced with something a bit more effective (May be moved to board). I also felt like I needed a better late game card draw effect, but I don't think one currently exists. Era of Innovation might be worth a shot, since I don't really use energy outside of early aether hubs.
More testing is probably required though. I need more games for a larger sample size.
What are thoughts on Thing in the Ice? I ran two because I didn't have Kalitas but now that I do...is Thing in the Ice better in slower matchups like control vs control?
@endgame1331 You didn't have issues with only 24 lands?
This. Also, why the playset of Aether Hub when you're only two colors? As others in the thread have taught me (and I've seen in borne out in practice), that'd be better off as two submerged boneyard, one swamp, and one island
Hi all. I played the following esper 2 weeks in a row and am 6-2. It is black based with blue and white splash. Anguished unmaking has been awesome.
Beat Rw humans, rw vehicles, ug control, sultai delirium, jeskai saheeli, br aggro, lost to br aggro due to land screw (should have mulled g1) and ur fevered visions control.
Tendrils has been awesome, blessed alliance also is great against aggro.i'very done a planeswalker ultimate in most matches that i've won. The dream is getting back gearhulks or kalitas with liliana. Sorin has been meh in my experience. Might replace with another transgress or countermagic. Also thinking of moving the 2 maindeck blessed alliances to the board for another fatal push and anticipate. Thoughts?
Went to a 63 person PPTQ this weekend. Here was the deck list I took and each round with sideboard tech.
I went into this knowing a lot of people would be running Mardu Vehicles, B/G delerium, B/G Counters, G/W Tokens. Few other aggro decks as well, I changed my normal list to match the meta game. Any and all input will put to good use.
Round 1 VS Mono Red Aggro 2-1(On Draw game 1). Game 1 I kept a mix hand with 3 lands, 2 counter magic, 1 gearhulk, 1 removal. Not knowing what I was facing. He turn 1 Inventors App, turn 2 into Bomat Courier, turn 3 Hellion and turn 4 Hellion. I wasn't able to slow down the onslaugh. Game 2 i took out the clunky removals and brought in more fast removal and won. Kalitas was key for game 2, I noticed in game 2 he brought in direct damage. For game 3 I brought in more negate and dispels. He got me down pretty fast game 3, but i stabilized with Kalitas at 4 health.
Round 2 VS Copy Cat Jeskai Control 2-1(On Play game 1). Going into the match I knew what he was running, game 1 I kept almost the perfect hand. 1 removal, 2 counter magic, 1 draw card, 4 lands. Game 2 I didn't see enough counter magic, stopped his first 3 attempts at the combo with removal(no counter spells) He hit his last Felidar and got combo. I also took 14 damage that game from just the Saheeli +1. Game 3 I landed Lilly turn 3, he landed a Fevered Visions. Was uphill battle after that. He landed another Fevered Visions and kept redirecting at my Lilly, Following turn i landed the Metallurgic Summonings and he played a 3rd Fevered Visions. The race was on and he was redirected a few to many of the Fevered Visions damage triggers into my planeswalkers instead of to me. I raced the damage and killed him the turn I would of died to the Visions.
Round 3 VS R/G energy 1-2(On Draw game 1). Going into the match I knew what he was running, game 1 i mulled to 5 and just got overran quickly. Game 2 protected Kalitas and won pretty easily. Game 3 I was low on Black mana and wasn't able to kill enough threats fast enough. Would of stabilized if I hit a land that entered untapped for turn 6, I hit Choked Estuary without land in hand. Torrential Gearhulk would of saved the game, he was out of cards in hand.
Round 4 VS Sultai Delerium 2-1(On Draw game 1). Game 1 I hit all the answers and won with Metallurgic Summonings pretty quickly. Game 2 was very drawn out, he brought in a lot of counter magic and seemed to either have taken out all creatures or just never drew them. I hit Ob Nixilis turn 5 and started to draw, he has Lumbering Falls and started to attack and would protect it from my gearhulks with counter spells or grasps. I draw 14 cards off the Ob Nixilis and still never drew my Metallurgic summoings. He won with 2 Lumbering Falls(only 2 creatures on his side of the board all game that stuck around more than 1 turn). Game 3 I was on play and landed turn 3 Lilly, he turn 3 Lilly as well. I protected her until Emblem and he did the same. He landed the big daddy Sphinx with zombies. I attacked hoping he would block all the zombies and lose all but his Sphinx. He did exactly that, I had the Blighted Fen and made him sacrifice it. I ended up with a bigger army of Zombies and landed the Metallurgic Summonings, which was adding to my side of the field. Game went to turns and I won on turn 2.
Round 5 VS B/G Counters 1-2(On Draw game 1). Game 1 Kalitas went to work for me. I just exiled all his creatures and made a nice Zombie Army. Game 2 He was able to land 3 Snakes and just put counters faster then I could kill them. I mulled to 5 game 2 and wasn't able to be to picky about my hand at that point, only had 1 removal and I used it early on a Gifted Aetherborn. Game 3 started out very well, I killed the 2 Snakes and Riskhar that landed early. I ran out of answers only getting draw spells and lands. No gearhulks or kalitas in sight. Got down to 1 hp and stabilized, however I had no counter magic in hand and he only needed the walking balista to end me. I did have kill spells for anything else he played.
Round 6 VS U/W Spirits 2-1(On Play game 1). Game 1 he hit early 2 drop spirits and protected them hard with counter spells. Game 2 he got stuck on 2 lands for 13 turns before I could even get a creature out to damage him. Game 3 was more even fight. I hit him with sideboard tech and Kalitas cleaned the field up easily for me.
I feel with as much aggro decks as there currently are, for control you really need a way to gain life. I have been thinking over last few PPTQ that I went to that I should go Esper. This would allow me to run cards like Shambling VentAnguished Unmaking(Which I could hit with Torrential Gearhulk on flashback), I wouldn't be more than splashing for White. I might also include Quarantine Field in the sideboard, I know talk about Blessed Alliance would also be good. Some testing will need to be done, but overall this deck did very well for the matches I faced.
Should also be known, of these 63 players. 15 of them have been on the pro-tour, a lot of others all top 8 RPTQ as well. Went 4-2, both people I lost to made top 8, the R/G Energy made to semi finals, the B/G counters made to finals(did not win). Surprisingly a 5-color Bring to Light deck ended up going 7-0-2 and winning this PPTQ. I also went 4-0 for FNM at my LGS.
Went to a new shop this time, traded in a bunch of random cards that had been sitting in my bulk binder for years(I check prices and know when they worth more). For most of the cards, I was getting 80%-90% trade in value. I ended up finishing off my collection of Unhinged full art lands(I wanted to have 8 of each). I also picked up another MPW Full art Lightning Bolt and the full art Damnation. Very happy with this weekend.
If you have any questions or feedback. Lets get some good feedback going on this.
I feel with as much aggro decks as there currently are, for control you really need a way to gain life. I have been thinking over last few PPTQ that I went to that I should go Esper. This would allow me to run cards like Shambling VentAnguished Unmaking(Which I could hit with Torrential Gearhulk on flashback), I wouldn't be more than splashing for White. I might also include Quarantine Field in the sideboard, I know talk about Blessed Alliance would also be good. Some testing will need to be done, but overall this deck did very well for the matches I faced.
Cool report! Sorry about the way it broke, but I'm glad you emphasized this. I keep trying to get across how important Anguished Unmaking is. Usually the issue is a resolved planeswalker that UB otherwise has a hard time dealing with, but enchantments and artifacts are probably larger issues. Did that round 2 Jeskai control deck not also bring in Dynavolt Tower? Shambling Vent and Blessed Alliance are pretty good as well but are really more metagame-dependent calls.
I've never run into the issue of aether hub being a bad land drop. I even ran into the double aether hub as my only lands and was still fine. Since the report, I've probably played 50-60 games, and I think I'd run into more issues with more tap lands then I would with aether hub. As to the land count issue, I have felt that in some games I should up the count to 25 by cutting an anticipate.
Weird, off the wall card that I tested and was really, really impressed with was Leave in the Dust. I've swapped the 2 horribly awry for 2 leave in the dust and have been very impressed with how well it performed. It helped out as an instant speed out to resolved planeswalkers, a nice tempo play against creatures, and a really disgusting way to recur advantage with torrential gearhulk.
I feel with as much aggro decks as there currently are, for control you really need a way to gain life. I have been thinking over last few PPTQ that I went to that I should go Esper. This would allow me to run cards like Shambling VentAnguished Unmaking(Which I could hit with Torrential Gearhulk on flashback), I wouldn't be more than splashing for White. I might also include Quarantine Field in the sideboard, I know talk about Blessed Alliance would also be good. Some testing will need to be done, but overall this deck did very well for the matches I faced.
Cool report! Sorry about the way it broke, but I'm glad you emphasized this. I keep trying to get across how important Anguished Unmaking is. Usually the issue is a resolved planeswalker that UB otherwise has a hard time dealing with, but enchantments and artifacts are probably larger issues. Did that round 2 Jeskai control deck not also bring in Dynavolt Tower? Shambling Vent and Blessed Alliance are pretty good as well but are really more metagame-dependent calls.
If he did, i never saw them. Ruinous Path takes care of resolved walkers. Even if I went Esper, I would still include 1 or 2 Paths. I also thought about adding green, don't have the life-link creatures but does give access to the Lumbering Falls(hexproof amazing) alone with pulse(get back land or creature and gain 6 life for 3 mana). I am still deciding, pretty sure Esper is the way to go here. We will see.
Weird, off the wall card that I tested and was really, really impressed with was Leave in the Dust. I've swapped the 2 horribly awry for 2 leave in the dust and have been very impressed with how well it performed. It helped out as an instant speed out to resolved planeswalkers, a nice tempo play against creatures, and a really disgusting way to recur advantage with torrential gearhulk.
In the current meta, I will never remove Horribly Awry, I was tempted to move to main board and side another anticipate and disallow to side
What exactly does horribly awry do that removal spells don't. I mean, the only thing i can really think of is scrounger, but that only works on the play. On the draw, you're still forced to deal with his stupid recursion until you land gearhulk or exile it in some way shape or form. The big problem with cards like horribly awry is that they're only decent in match-ups where counter magic isn't great. I think jamming more fatal pushes, grasps, and removal in general is a better solution then trying to play at being ahead against decks that you'll always be behind with essence scatter clones.
What exactly does horribly awry do that removal spells don't. I mean, the only thing i can really think of is scrounger, but that only works on the play. On the draw, you're still forced to deal with his stupid recursion until you land gearhulk or exile it in some way shape or form. The big problem with cards like horribly awry is that they're only decent in match-ups where counter magic isn't great. I think jamming more fatal pushes, grasps, and removal in general is a better solution then trying to play at being ahead against decks that you'll always be behind with essence scatter clones.
Horribly Awry hits 90% of the threats everyone is playing. it is simply another 2 mana removal. Lot of these lists already run 4 push and 4 grasps. Rather than running another 3 mana removal, you run this card. a lot of pro players are running this card in the side, a few even in the main. Depending on the meta
I personally prefer the esper Summonings list haha. With Metallurgic Summonings, you have the best late game now that Emrakul is banned. It's a shame because this deck could beat those two cards easily. The real n issue that I have with the deck is the new list my lgs came up with for gw tokens that uses the full set of 4mana Gideon and 3 mana nissa. It can come back after a board wipe with srams Expertise and a nissa off of it for free and I have to board wipe again just to live. So maybe 2 main and 2 side of Yahenni's Expertise may make this matchup easier. Blessed alliance is strictly good against Gideon as they can't stop it once I have the rest of the board under control. It's my only issue so far. I've played gb snakes, gb midrange, uw flash, rw vehicles, rg energy, and mono blue colossus. There are a couple of stragglers decks that can't beat the tempo plays that this deck can do. If I get a response I'll post my decklist. I really thing it is a strong contender. Also. Emerge and delirium sink against the deck as well. Snakes can be hard with Gearhulk, but not unwinnable maindeck. Sideboard is alot better.
I personally prefer the esper Summonings list haha. With Metallurgic Summonings, you have the best late game now that Emrakul is banned. It's a shame because this deck could beat those two cards easily. The real n issue that I have with the deck is the new list my lgs came up with for gw tokens that uses the full set of 4mana Gideon and 3 mana nissa. It can come back after a board wipe with srams Expertise and a nissa off of it for free and I have to board wipe again just to live. So maybe 2 main and 2 side of Yahenni's Expertise may make this matchup easier. Blessed alliance is strictly good against Gideon as they can't stop it once I have the rest of the board under control. It's my only issue so far. I've played gb snakes, gb midrange, uw flash, rw vehicles, rg energy, and mono blue colossus. There are a couple of stragglers decks that can't beat the tempo plays that this deck can do. If I get a response I'll post my decklist. I really thing it is a strong contender. Also. Emerge and delirium sink against the deck as well. Snakes can be hard with Gearhulk, but not unwinnable maindeck. Sideboard is alot better.
Lands 26
3x Plains
3x Island
8x Swamp
2x Prairie Stream
4x Port Town
3x Sunken Hollow
3x Choked Estuary
White-9 ,Blue-15 ,Black-14
Sideboard 15
changeable bases on meta
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Fumigate
2x Disallow
1x Glimmer of Genius
2x Ruinous Path
2x Lost Legacy
2x Yahenni's Expertise
Maybeboard
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
The key behind the mana base is Anticipate helps fuel into your next set of Lands in the early turns and in the late game it pulls answers from your deck for the in response to cards. People hate that haha. The reason Yahenni's Expertise is in the main instead of Fumigate is that it doesn't kill the token tha rg is made with summonings. I've been for a couple of weeks using 3 Gearhulks and 4 Summonings but decided 4 hulks and 3 summonings was best. Unmakings are the catch alls. Blessed alliance answers Gideon and hexproof creatures. With gearhulk. You can buyback all of your good against the field spells. Blessed alliance just happens to also gain us life that we lose from anguished unmaking while taking care of 3 issues. Sphinx of the Final Word, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Hexproof Hydra. These are the only issues I've ever encountered that I can't deal with in blue black very well. This is a reactive deck. But can go for 8 counters with the sideboard for more control. The reason I use Revolutionary Rebuff is because it's a great early answer to issue Creatures and planeswalkers. It doesn't answer vehicles or artifacts, but grasps/murders and anguished unmaking do that very well. Lands two through 5 need to be untapped for sure. So anticipates draw into the lands that need to help keep you untapped on their turn. The reason I use anguished unmaking is because it catches artifacts and enchantments. I could use cards like decommission and other catch alls, but this card also answers Creatures and planeswalkers and having something that takes care of everything is worth the life it takes to do so.
Lands 26
3x Plains
3x Island
8x Swamp
2x Prairie Stream
4x Port Town
3x Sunken Hollow
3x Choked Estuary
White-9 ,Blue-15 ,Black-14
Sideboard 15
changeable bases on meta
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Fumigate
2x Disallow
1x Glimmer of Genius
2x Ruinous Path
2x Lost Legacy
2x Yahenni's Expertise
Maybeboard
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
The key behind the mana base is Anticipate helps fuel into your next set of Lands in the early turns and in the late game it pulls answers from your deck for the in response to cards. People hate that haha. The reason Yahenni's Expertise is in the main instead of Fumigate is that it doesn't kill the token tha rg is made with summonings. I've been for a couple of weeks using 3 Gearhulks and 4 Summonings but decided 4 hulks and 3 summonings was best. Unmakings are the catch alls. Blessed alliance answers Gideon and hexproof creatures. With gearhulk. You can buyback all of your good against the field spells. Blessed alliance just happens to also gain us life that we lose from anguished unmaking while taking care of 3 issues. Sphinx of the Final Word, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Hexproof Hydra. These are the only issues I've ever encountered that I can't deal with in blue black very well. This is a reactive deck. But can go for 8 counters with the sideboard for more control. The reason I use Revolutionary Rebuff is because it's a great early answer to issue Creatures and planeswalkers. It doesn't answer vehicles or artifacts, but grasps/murders and anguished unmaking do that very well. Lands two through 5 need to be untapped for sure. So anticipates draw into the lands that need to help keep you untapped on their turn. The reason I use anguished unmaking is because it catches artifacts and enchantments. I could use cards like decommission and other catch alls, but this card also answers Creatures and planeswalkers and having something that takes care of everything is worth the life it takes to do so.
Why no Concealed Courtyard or Shambling Vent?
Almost the only reason I want to add white is for the Shambling Vent\
I do agree with the Revolutionary Rebuff. x4 Disallow is to clunky in the main VS all these aggro decks
Just some update to my list as more and more I played and adjust to the current meta at my LGS, the deck to beat for me is still Mardu Vehicle as Gideon, Ally of Zendikar still wreck my deck if resolve or no way to deal with it as they have must deal with threat and removal Unlicensed Disintegration plus deal 3 damages. I still would like to add in Blessed alliance
@ozzynomicon
How your matchup against all the deck in the current format
T1:
GB Aggro/Del
Copycat
Mardu
5 Color Saheeli
T1.5
4 Color Marvel
UR Tower
UR Emerage
GW Token
Jund
T2
Grixis Control
Jeskei Control
If Mardu is what your looking to beat. Remove Disallow from the main to sideboard(atleast 1 or 2) Can fit the Blessed Alliance in there or something else.
Skywhaler's Shot is another reason I want to go white. in 3 color, i would remove all Murder. Hits all the same cards and scry 1 for you.
If Mardu is what your looking to beat. Remove Disallow from the main to sideboard(atleast 1 or 2) Can fit the Blessed Alliance in there or something else.
Skywhaler's Shot is another reason I want to go white. in 3 color, i would remove all Murder. Hits all the same cards and scry 1 for you.
I agree with the Mardu Vehicles sideboarding suggestion.
However, I'm not as huge a fan of Skywhaler's Shot. There are a lot of things it doesn't hit (man-lands for instance).
If Mardu is what your looking to beat. Remove Disallow from the main to sideboard(atleast 1 or 2) Can fit the Blessed Alliance in there or something else.
Skywhaler's Shot is another reason I want to go white. in 3 color, i would remove all Murder. Hits all the same cards and scry 1 for you.
I agree with the Mardu Vehicles sideboarding suggestion.
However, I'm not as huge a fan of Skywhaler's Shot. There are a lot of things it doesn't hit (man-lands for instance).
In a 3 color deck, a lot harder to hit double B mana on turn 3. The deck runs 8-10 other removal that hits man-lands and all other creatures. Personally, I would run the Skywhaler's shot over Murders. The scry is also huge
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Game 1 is very difficult. I've beaten them in game 1 in a tournament before, but it took like everything my deck could pony up while it felt they were always just digging for the missing piece. In testing against Jeskai Saheeli, I've learned that while I can win game 1, it's often not worth letting that kind of time run off the clock, especially if you were to go super long and then have your deck go cold on you with your draws. In tournament, I have conceded (in what my opponent even thought was a winning position) because too much time has run off the clock. I'm that confident in my sideboard tech against Jeskai Saheeli. The 4-color variant is the reason I was on 2 sweepers and have now gone back to three sweepers in my 75. They take you to value-town because individually, their aren't any key pieces. However, when any number of their pieces come together, it becomes obnoxious. Now they're even running energy themes to power Aetherworks Marvel for more value-town shenanigans. I'm actually surprised that Jeskai Saheeli is still more popular than the 4-color variant.
oh and how has Select for Inspection been for ya? Been bouncing an Heart of Kiran?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I hope you just joking around about Select for Inspection bouncing Heart of Kiran because Heart of Kiran have vil.
as for Jeskai Cat combo, our deck shouldn't have any issue winning since we have counter/PW removal (Esper) UB might be a bit harder since their PW removal is sorcery speed. G2 get a bit more tricky as they bring in dispel and take out their removal, as for me I sb in Spell Qualler Archangel avacyn
I have had much the same results as you with my build of Esper. I won my Game Day, going 3-1-1 in the Swiss and beating BG aggro, GW, and RW Vehicles in the elimination rounds (I had lost to the RW Vehicles deck in the Swiss). I think control will continue to have consistency issues with the present metagame (drawing the wrong half of the deck at the wrong time) and no big "I win" spells like Sphinx's Revelation. I do like the idea of a Blighted Fen in the SB, and I may try that against non-Vehicles decks.
I hope you have better results that I did with Dynavolt Tower. I was disappointed with it -- it just didn't seem to have as powerful an effect as it does in Jeskai or UR Control, since Harnessed Lightning is an additional energy benefit/generator that Esper and UB don't have.
If you guys feel like going to a more consistent control version, come and take a look out the deck I'm brewing. I'm currently 10-3 (2 friendly leagues 4-1 and 2-1 at 1vs1 on MTGO)
DEVELOPING UW Control: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/763805-uw-control
2 Dovin Baan
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Creatures
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Instants
3 Anticipate
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Confirm Suspicions
4 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Immolating Glare
3 Negate
2 Stasis Snare
Sorceries
4 Fumigate
Lands
9 Plains
7 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
3 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Fragmentize
3 Authority of the Consuls
4 Horribly Awry
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
4x Fatal Push
4x Anticipate
4x Negate
2x Horribly Awry
4x Grasp of Darkness
2x Void Shatter
2x Disallow
2x Complete Disregard
2x Murder
4x Glimmer of Genius
2x Confirm Suspicion
4x Choked Estuary
4x Aether Hub
6x Island
6x Swamp
3x Ceremonious Rejection
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Dispel
2x Essence Extraction
4x Transgress the Mind
New to the deck, but very familiar with control strategies. Decided to take the above list to both of my game days and went 4-0 and 3-1 respectively. I probably need to play some number of Kalitas to help protect against Colossus and Scrounger. Lost against B/U colossus in the finals of my second game day. I was lucky to dodge the match up day 1.
Beat Jeskai Copycat 2-0 Match-up seemed good simply because I never tap-out and have WAY more interaction then they do. Only issue I can see is an early resolved saheeli.
Beat B/R Aggro 2-1 Scrounger is a pain in the ass, even with Awry, Shatter, and Disregard. Outside of that I had enough removal for the random crap they tried to throw at me. Disregard on scrounger was a big help and I was eventually able to just stick a Gearhulk and not care about the recursive piece of crap.
Beat R/W vehicles Twice 2-0 both times. Went against this guy both days. Was actually really straightforward. No scrounger meant I could just kill everything. I always just left up counter magic to make sure a chandra or gideon didn't resolve.
Beat G/B Delirium Twice 2-1 and 2-1. Big balistas were slightly worrying and a turn 3 lili on the play was a big problem. Bringing in Gifted Aetherborn as an aggressive and defensive threat helped keep my life high enough and pressure lili, and generally all of my answers lined up very well, so a win wasn't terribly hard.
Lost to Colossus 1-2 I managed to steal a game by chaining multiple gearhulks and keeping him off of a bunch of early artifacts, but the recursive 10/10 is just very hard to deal with and if the decks draw doesn't line up to what he's doing in that game, I just get rekt. Outside of kalitas, I don't know what to add to the board to improve this match-up.
Beat Panharmonica Combo 2-1 Deck was trying to set up double felidar guardian with panharmonica to set up infinite mana, then trigger any ETB to search for ballista and kill the opponent. Deck was actually kind of challenging because EVERYTHING replaced itself when it entered (Cloudblazer, refiner, glint-nest crane, prophetic prism and felidar) and it backed it up with countermagic. Good news is that most of the creatures are tiny, so I just had to make sure things didn't snowball.
Overall, I feel like the deck performed pretty well with some slight issues dealing with recurring threats, but was prone to somewhat polarizing draws. Maxing anticipate actually helped this a bit, and it was a bit easier to play catch up thanks to having a good 1 mana answer to cheap threats. Horribly awry felt kind of subpar, and could probably be replaced with something a bit more effective (May be moved to board). I also felt like I needed a better late game card draw effect, but I don't think one currently exists. Era of Innovation might be worth a shot, since I don't really use energy outside of early aether hubs.
More testing is probably required though. I need more games for a larger sample size.
This. Also, why the playset of Aether Hub when you're only two colors? As others in the thread have taught me (and I've seen in borne out in practice), that'd be better off as two submerged boneyard, one swamp, and one island
Beat Rw humans, rw vehicles, ug control, sultai delirium, jeskai saheeli, br aggro, lost to br aggro due to land screw (should have mulled g1) and ur fevered visions control.
4 choked estuary
4 concealed courtyard
4 shambling vent
4 sunken hallow
3 evolving wilds
3 island
3 swamp
1 plains
INSTANTS (23)
3 fatal push
3 anticipate
4 grasp of darkness
2 negate
2 blessed alliance
3 anguished unmaking
2 murder
4 glimmer of genius
2 kalitas, traitor of ghet
4 torrential gearhulk
PLANESWALKERS (5)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 ob nixilus, reignited
2 Blessed alliance
2 fumigate
3 flaying tendrils
2 negate
2 transgress the mind
2 fragmentize
1 fatal push
1 sorin, grim nemesis
Tendrils has been awesome, blessed alliance also is great against aggro.i'very done a planeswalker ultimate in most matches that i've won. The dream is getting back gearhulks or kalitas with liliana. Sorin has been meh in my experience. Might replace with another transgress or countermagic. Also thinking of moving the 2 maindeck blessed alliances to the board for another fatal push and anticipate. Thoughts?
I went into this knowing a lot of people would be running Mardu Vehicles, B/G delerium, B/G Counters, G/W Tokens. Few other aggro decks as well, I changed my normal list to match the meta game. Any and all input will put to good use.
Creatures(6)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Planeswalkers(2)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Enchantments(1)
1 Metallurgic Summonings
Sorceries(2)
2 Ruinous Path
Instances(23)
3 Murder
4 Grasps of Darkness
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Anticipate
3 Disallow
2 Negate
6 Island
8 Swamp
1 Blighted Fen
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Horribly Awry
1 Disallow
2 Negate
2 Dispel
1 Confirm Suspicions
1 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 To the Slaughter
1 Ruinous Path
With 63 people we did 6 rounds and cut to top 8.
Round 1 VS Mono Red Aggro 2-1(On Draw game 1). Game 1 I kept a mix hand with 3 lands, 2 counter magic, 1 gearhulk, 1 removal. Not knowing what I was facing. He turn 1 Inventors App, turn 2 into Bomat Courier, turn 3 Hellion and turn 4 Hellion. I wasn't able to slow down the onslaugh. Game 2 i took out the clunky removals and brought in more fast removal and won. Kalitas was key for game 2, I noticed in game 2 he brought in direct damage. For game 3 I brought in more negate and dispels. He got me down pretty fast game 3, but i stabilized with Kalitas at 4 health.
Sideboard Guide
-2 Disallow
-1 Glimmer of Genius
-2 Ruinous Path
-2 Murder
+2 Flaying Tendrils
+2 Horribly Awry
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 Negate
+1 Dispel
Round 2 VS Copy Cat Jeskai Control 2-1(On Play game 1). Going into the match I knew what he was running, game 1 I kept almost the perfect hand. 1 removal, 2 counter magic, 1 draw card, 4 lands. Game 2 I didn't see enough counter magic, stopped his first 3 attempts at the combo with removal(no counter spells) He hit his last Felidar and got combo. I also took 14 damage that game from just the Saheeli +1. Game 3 I landed Lilly turn 3, he landed a Fevered Visions. Was uphill battle after that. He landed another Fevered Visions and kept redirecting at my Lilly, Following turn i landed the Metallurgic Summonings and he played a 3rd Fevered Visions. The race was on and he was redirected a few to many of the Fevered Visions damage triggers into my planeswalkers instead of to me. I raced the damage and killed him the turn I would of died to the Visions.
Sideboard Guide
-2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
-2 Fatal Push
-1 Grasp of Darkness
-1 Murder
+2 Negate
+1 To the Slaughter
+2 Dispel
+1 Disallow
Round 3 VS R/G energy 1-2(On Draw game 1). Going into the match I knew what he was running, game 1 i mulled to 5 and just got overran quickly. Game 2 protected Kalitas and won pretty easily. Game 3 I was low on Black mana and wasn't able to kill enough threats fast enough. Would of stabilized if I hit a land that entered untapped for turn 6, I hit Choked Estuary without land in hand. Torrential Gearhulk would of saved the game, he was out of cards in hand.
Sideboard Guide
-2 disallow
-1 Glimmer
-2 Ruinous Path
-1 Torrential Gearhulk
+2 Horribly Awry
+2 Flaying Tendrils
+1 To the Slaughter
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
Round 4 VS Sultai Delerium 2-1(On Draw game 1). Game 1 I hit all the answers and won with Metallurgic Summonings pretty quickly. Game 2 was very drawn out, he brought in a lot of counter magic and seemed to either have taken out all creatures or just never drew them. I hit Ob Nixilis turn 5 and started to draw, he has Lumbering Falls and started to attack and would protect it from my gearhulks with counter spells or grasps. I draw 14 cards off the Ob Nixilis and still never drew my Metallurgic summoings. He won with 2 Lumbering Falls(only 2 creatures on his side of the board all game that stuck around more than 1 turn). Game 3 I was on play and landed turn 3 Lilly, he turn 3 Lilly as well. I protected her until Emblem and he did the same. He landed the big daddy Sphinx with zombies. I attacked hoping he would block all the zombies and lose all but his Sphinx. He did exactly that, I had the Blighted Fen and made him sacrifice it. I ended up with a bigger army of Zombies and landed the Metallurgic Summonings, which was adding to my side of the field. Game went to turns and I won on turn 2.
Sideboard Guide
-3 Fatal Push
-2 Grasp of Darkness
-2 Ruinous Path
+1 Jace, unraveler of Secrets
+1 Ob Nixilis reignited
+2 Negate
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 To the Slaughter
+1 Confirm Suspicions
Round 5 VS B/G Counters 1-2(On Draw game 1). Game 1 Kalitas went to work for me. I just exiled all his creatures and made a nice Zombie Army. Game 2 He was able to land 3 Snakes and just put counters faster then I could kill them. I mulled to 5 game 2 and wasn't able to be to picky about my hand at that point, only had 1 removal and I used it early on a Gifted Aetherborn. Game 3 started out very well, I killed the 2 Snakes and Riskhar that landed early. I ran out of answers only getting draw spells and lands. No gearhulks or kalitas in sight. Got down to 1 hp and stabilized, however I had no counter magic in hand and he only needed the walking balista to end me. I did have kill spells for anything else he played.
Sideobard Guide
-2 Ruinous Path
-1 Disallow
-1 Negate
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
+2 Horribly Awry
Round 6 VS U/W Spirits 2-1(On Play game 1). Game 1 he hit early 2 drop spirits and protected them hard with counter spells. Game 2 he got stuck on 2 lands for 13 turns before I could even get a creature out to damage him. Game 3 was more even fight. I hit him with sideboard tech and Kalitas cleaned the field up easily for me.
Sideboard Guide
-2 Ruinous Path
-3 Murder
+2 Flaying Tendrils
+1 Yahenni's Expertise
+2 Negate
I feel with as much aggro decks as there currently are, for control you really need a way to gain life. I have been thinking over last few PPTQ that I went to that I should go Esper. This would allow me to run cards like Shambling Vent Anguished Unmaking(Which I could hit with Torrential Gearhulk on flashback), I wouldn't be more than splashing for White. I might also include Quarantine Field in the sideboard, I know talk about Blessed Alliance would also be good. Some testing will need to be done, but overall this deck did very well for the matches I faced.
Should also be known, of these 63 players. 15 of them have been on the pro-tour, a lot of others all top 8 RPTQ as well. Went 4-2, both people I lost to made top 8, the R/G Energy made to semi finals, the B/G counters made to finals(did not win). Surprisingly a 5-color Bring to Light deck ended up going 7-0-2 and winning this PPTQ. I also went 4-0 for FNM at my LGS.
Went to a new shop this time, traded in a bunch of random cards that had been sitting in my bulk binder for years(I check prices and know when they worth more). For most of the cards, I was getting 80%-90% trade in value. I ended up finishing off my collection of Unhinged full art lands(I wanted to have 8 of each). I also picked up another MPW Full art Lightning Bolt and the full art Damnation. Very happy with this weekend.
If you have any questions or feedback. Lets get some good feedback going on this.
Cool report! Sorry about the way it broke, but I'm glad you emphasized this. I keep trying to get across how important Anguished Unmaking is. Usually the issue is a resolved planeswalker that UB otherwise has a hard time dealing with, but enchantments and artifacts are probably larger issues. Did that round 2 Jeskai control deck not also bring in Dynavolt Tower? Shambling Vent and Blessed Alliance are pretty good as well but are really more metagame-dependent calls.
Weird, off the wall card that I tested and was really, really impressed with was Leave in the Dust. I've swapped the 2 horribly awry for 2 leave in the dust and have been very impressed with how well it performed. It helped out as an instant speed out to resolved planeswalkers, a nice tempo play against creatures, and a really disgusting way to recur advantage with torrential gearhulk.
If he did, i never saw them. Ruinous Path takes care of resolved walkers. Even if I went Esper, I would still include 1 or 2 Paths. I also thought about adding green, don't have the life-link creatures but does give access to the Lumbering Falls(hexproof amazing) alone with pulse(get back land or creature and gain 6 life for 3 mana). I am still deciding, pretty sure Esper is the way to go here. We will see.
In the current meta, I will never remove Horribly Awry, I was tempted to move to main board and side another anticipate and disallow to side
Horribly Awry hits 90% of the threats everyone is playing. it is simply another 2 mana removal. Lot of these lists already run 4 push and 4 grasps. Rather than running another 3 mana removal, you run this card. a lot of pro players are running this card in the side, a few even in the main. Depending on the meta
Able to post a decklist?
Creatures 4
4x Torrential Gearhulk
Non-Creatures 30
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Blessed Alliance
4x Revolutionary Rebuff
2x Disallow
4x Anticipate
3x Glimmer of Genius
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Murder
2x Yahenni's Expertise
3x Metallurgic Summonings
Lands 26
3x Plains
3x Island
8x Swamp
2x Prairie Stream
4x Port Town
3x Sunken Hollow
3x Choked Estuary
White-9 ,Blue-15 ,Black-14
Sideboard 15
changeable bases on meta
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Fumigate
2x Disallow
1x Glimmer of Genius
2x Ruinous Path
2x Lost Legacy
2x Yahenni's Expertise
Maybeboard
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
The key behind the mana base is Anticipate helps fuel into your next set of Lands in the early turns and in the late game it pulls answers from your deck for the in response to cards. People hate that haha. The reason Yahenni's Expertise is in the main instead of Fumigate is that it doesn't kill the token tha rg is made with summonings. I've been for a couple of weeks using 3 Gearhulks and 4 Summonings but decided 4 hulks and 3 summonings was best. Unmakings are the catch alls. Blessed alliance answers Gideon and hexproof creatures. With gearhulk. You can buyback all of your good against the field spells. Blessed alliance just happens to also gain us life that we lose from anguished unmaking while taking care of 3 issues. Sphinx of the Final Word, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Hexproof Hydra. These are the only issues I've ever encountered that I can't deal with in blue black very well. This is a reactive deck. But can go for 8 counters with the sideboard for more control. The reason I use Revolutionary Rebuff is because it's a great early answer to issue Creatures and planeswalkers. It doesn't answer vehicles or artifacts, but grasps/murders and anguished unmaking do that very well. Lands two through 5 need to be untapped for sure. So anticipates draw into the lands that need to help keep you untapped on their turn. The reason I use anguished unmaking is because it catches artifacts and enchantments. I could use cards like decommission and other catch alls, but this card also answers Creatures and planeswalkers and having something that takes care of everything is worth the life it takes to do so.
Why no Concealed Courtyard or Shambling Vent?
Almost the only reason I want to add white is for the Shambling Vent\
I do agree with the Revolutionary Rebuff. x4 Disallow is to clunky in the main VS all these aggro decks
2x Anguished Unmaking
4x Fatal Push
4x Grasp of Darkness
1x Skywhaler's Shot
Instant (Draw spell) (6)
4x Glimmer of Genius
2x Anticipate
Instant (Counter spell) (10)
1x Horribly Awry
1x Confirm Suspicions
4x Disallow
2x Negate
2x Revolutionary Rebuff
1x Fumigate
Creature (6)
4x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Land (26)
3x Choked Estuary
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Island
2x Plains
3x Prairie Stream
4x Shambling Vent
4x Sunken Hollow
5x Swamp
1x Authority of the Consuls
2x Fragmentize
2x Dispel
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Negate
1x fumigate
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
3x Spell Queller
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Sorin, Grim nemesis
@ozzynomicon
How your matchup against all the deck in the current format
T1:
GB Aggro/Del
Copycat
Mardu
5 Color Saheeli
T1.5
4 Color Marvel
UR Tower
UR Emerage
GW Token
Jund
T2
Grixis Control
Jeskei Control
Skywhaler's Shot is another reason I want to go white. in 3 color, i would remove all Murder. Hits all the same cards and scry 1 for you.
I agree with the Mardu Vehicles sideboarding suggestion.
However, I'm not as huge a fan of Skywhaler's Shot. There are a lot of things it doesn't hit (man-lands for instance).
In a 3 color deck, a lot harder to hit double B mana on turn 3. The deck runs 8-10 other removal that hits man-lands and all other creatures. Personally, I would run the Skywhaler's shot over Murders. The scry is also huge