I played this deck tonight at FNM, and won 3-0 (2-0, 2-0 and 2-0) against Sultai Midrange and Jund Energy in the final (I don't remember what the first opponent was playing).
Quote from Nevelo »
I do think that, like Lieutenant, Mimic want to play with a lot of 1-drops. The idea being that you have a higher chance to followup a Mimic with several creatures.
I figured that in a world of Mardu Vehicles and Golgari Constrictor, Menace would be an amazingly good ability to grant to a bunch of beefed up weenies (thanks to Mimic and Lieutenant). So I squeezed Firemantle Mage into the list, ditched the artifact theme, and focused instead on token production with Hanweir Militia Captain and Hanweir Garrison. With a low curve and 34 creatures, the Captain can easily flip, and Garrison is crazy with Mimic and Lieutenant. Village Messenger is a 1-drop filler : Human and with Haste, he's doing his job ; more so if he's a 2/2 with Mimic, and eventually a 3/3 Menace when he flips (or 4/4 if Lieutenant can help before transformation).
The Sideboard plan is simple : do nothing if you're on the play (deck is so fast, you should almost always win when on the play), or side in everything if you're on the draw. I thus remove 4 Captain, 4 Bushwhacker, 4 Outnumber, 2 Messenger and 1 Envoy. The deck is then transformed to deal with almost all decks in longer games, and opponent will certainly be taken aback by the change of strategy.
Fun play : Mimic is a Human in the early game. Later, be ready to make it an Ally instead if it can help. In the final against Jund Energy, I was facing a strong opposition of 2 Greenbelt Rampager, Scrapheap Scrounger, Rishkar and Heart of Kiran. I had a wider board, but not enough to go lethal. We both were top decking. I Top decked fine cards, but held on to them, waiting for the right moment. Then, I got a Mimic, casted it and said "Ally". "Ally?!?!", said my opponent. He understood as I followed up with a 3/2 Envoy and a 3/2 Bushwhacker, hasting the trio and adding more than 15 power to the battlefield, triggering Rally and Menace on all Weenies.
I'm considering replacing some or all Outnumber in the main deck for Shock, to deal with Copycat. Also, Lantern Scout in the SB, along with Gideon, would be amazing (I think). Maybe instead of Gisela and Heart. To get the full playset of Lantern Scout, I would have to move Declaration in Stone to the MB, instead of Outnumber. I'll probably test that next time.
What do you think?
Edit : BTW, about the post SB curve and 23 lands... I did my maths (hoser2 knows how good I am at statistics), and 23 lands on the draw is better odds to be on curve until turn 5 than 24 lands on the play. So if I would play the post SB list as a main deck with 24 lands, it only makes sense that it will run smoothly on the draw with 23 lands. I will, however, replace Stone Quarry with a Plains, to help casting on curve (and with a much higher white mana requirement).
Welcome back to humanity! I was thinking about Lantern Scout since you can't run champion, but I don't know that you want 4. The multiple use of the Ally theme with Mimic and Bushwhacker seems quite clever. I do think the Aggro versions may be best positioned. Given vehicles and Saheeli, I value the instant speed of Outnumber and Lightning, so I would want to keep at least 4 in the 75.
Thanks for your comment, hoser2. Happy to be back! Real life has been very demanding on my schedule in the past few months, and Magic had to be put on hold.
Somehow, I haven't realized that killing the cat would disrupt the Saheeli Copy Combo. I was too focused on the Planeswalker herself. So yes, I will keep Outnumber. It delivers quite a punch in a deck with 34 creatures, some of them producing tokens.
About Lantern Scout : I only played 2 in the main deck at GP Toronto last year in my Ally Company deck. This, among other factors, prevented me from getting to Day 2. Allies being generally weak blockers (Rally doesn't trigger at instant speed, except with CoCo), they were most of the time tapped out and attacking (Menace and First Strike). Gaining life was the deck's protection against Aggro and Midrange : I could continue with the aggressive plan, without having to keep blockers or chump blocking with summon sick Ally, thanks to the huge life gained while attacking. In the end, I changed the deck a bit for the Sunday Super Series, and played the full playset of Lantern Scout to win the event.
I'm not sure this Boros Allied Humans need that life boost as much as Ally Company needed it back then. Time will tell, and I yet have to play the deck against Mardu Vehicles and Golgari Constrictor.
Heart of Kiran is probably a very bad card in this deck (post SB). Unless my Weenies are pumped with +1/+1 counters, none can crew the Legendary Vehicle by itself. I'm probably better playing an extra threat (Lantern Scout), than forcing 2 creatures to activate a third one.
I put Gisela there for both the life boost and her ability to block an opposing Heart of Kiran. But I suppose Heart is often a 5/5, and Gisela is quite slow (uneffective until turn 5). Also, she removes synergy with Humans and Allies. Lantern Scout is probably just better to add a Rally trigger, and with a real board effect as soon as it ETB (remove it if you want, I'm still getting Lifelink on all my Humans this turn). It can't deal with Heart of Kiran, but : the life gained may be enough to nullify one or two of its attacks ; a 4/3 Lantern Scout (Mimic or Lieutenant) can kill it on offense ; and an extra Menace Rally trigger can win a game.
I'm pretty excited to go wide with Garrison, and its synergy with Mimic and Lieutenant. But maybe it's just cute, and Lantern Scout would be better in the main deck. The deck certainly can't support 4 Bushwhacker, 4 Mage, 4 Garrison and 4 Lantern Scout ; 12 drop-3 is more than enough or any deck. Maybe it is the Garrison that should go in the SB...
If you happen to test it out, tell me what you think. Thanks!
I think 2 color with lots of 1-drops is the most competitive version of Humans. Essentially the 1 drops create virtual card advantage. While I have built barely Mardu, the synergies that intrigue me tend to force me into 3+ color and midrange.
Currently, I am trying to figure out how to abuse Glint-Sleeve Siphoner along with the boom of the Mimic-Lieutenant-Garrison. That forces me into truly Mardu at least. The draws to G (Tracker and Champion) are replaceable (Siphoner for Tracker and Lantern Scout for Champion), but keeping Siphoner fed with energy is easier with G. Four color is just unwieldy, though.
The meta may be the biggest problem, as Reflector Mage being banned makes bigger creatures better and BG's prominence improves Fumigate. Feedback appreciated, but I already know that aggressive Boros is probably more competitive. I am mostly looking for suggestions that work within the overall concept.
I don't think Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is worth all this trouble. She's very demanding, and forces you to warp a big part of the deck around her. Maybe she can be sustained by Harnessed Lightning and Aether Hub alone in Mardu. You could add Aethersphere Harvester for an extra energy input, and a vehicle easily crewed by any of your creatures, as well as a way to gain some life (instead of Heron's Grâce Champion).
As for card advantage, Thraben Inspector still does the job. Tireless Tracker too, if you decide to go back to Naya.
But as you said yourself, Boros is probably more competitive. To be honest, you can't imagine how much it pained me to remove green for my deck. I deeply wanted to play Tracker, Champion, but mostly Mimic + Recruiter (flip this T3, get an extra card, then follow on T4 with 8 mana worth of creatures: Mimic, Lieutenant, Militia Captain and Pacifist = 14/13 added to the battlefield). But I decided I wanted to win... it even meant my "best" cards would be relayed to a transformational SB (Gideon & Avacyn).
My 2 cents : I think 8 artifacts (Mimic and Scrounger) is not enough to reliably feed Spire of Industry and Inventor's Apprentice. If you're going Mardu, maybe you should replace 2 Always Watching with Cultivator's Caravan or Aethersphere Harvester. Both can fix your mana (one by itself, and the other through Aether Hub), and will add artifacts to the deck.
Also, while you're at it, maybe replace some Shock (2?) with Fatal Push, to deal with Constrictor? Unlicensed Disintegration maybe a good SB option on the play. And extra Fatal Push on the draw.
Edit: I forgot about it, but Thraben Inspector is also an artifact producer, if you don't eat the Clue. Pia Nalaar does the same, and may be worth consideration (but she'll take the place of an Ally).
Edit 2 : The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to add Lantern Scout to the main deck. An extra Ally to trigger Menace, and all the lifegained should help winning game one, on the play or on the draw, no?
... Card Choices: I think a combination of the Human aggro Blitz strategy with (R)Ally shenanigans is the way to move forward. I feel Scrounger is to good to give up. It's a continuous clock for 3 a turn. I did cut Toolcraft Exemplar. Broke my heart to cut standard's Wild Nacatl. Maybe I should be there? I might be wrong, but Scrounger seems to good to give up. Also powers Inventor's Apprentice.
Always Watching has been absent from most lists, but in my testing the games go far easier when you slam this enchantment Turn 3.
It hedges against Walking Ballista: With Always Watching in play, a Balista with 2 counters can only kill one Envoy, Mimic or Lieutenant instead of shooting down half your board.
Also you can double block pesky creatures, while still attacking with all your creatures. Pumps Scrounger to 4, so the opponent has to make awkward blocks or his life total will go down too fast.
Hanweir Garrison has been underwhelming for me. Yes, I agree it's bonkers with Mimic/Lieutenant, but most of the time when it comes down, I'm already winning or it gets killed and I wasted a whole turn casting it. Outnumber has been okay, but I'd rather have unconditional removal. On the draw it is hard to have 3 creatures survive in order to deal 3 damage to a Winding Constrictor before they put +1/+1 counters on it. For now I'm going for shock, but I am looking at Declaration in Stone.
Bushwhacker and especially the Firemantle Mage is what makes the deck competitive again. Before, Humans were fast, but against a stabilising opponent it could gas out or you just couldn't get those last points of damage in.
Lantern Scout is the SB card for on the draw. Against BG constrictor and Mardu Vehicles you need something for the tempo swing. Against BG constrictor I take out Bushwhacker, because you want to gain life while preserving your board with menace. Against BG I prefer Always Watching for blocking reasons.
Against Mardu Vehicles, menace is not necessary because Mardu Vehicles is just racing, so I swap the Scouts for the Mages. One Rally trigger of the Scout is sometimes enough to swing games in your favour. Multiple triggers, they just scoop.
We are favorable in the Saheeli Matchup. I add the 2 Consuls. I played a 4-color-Saheeli matchup and Whirler Virtuoso can be annoying.
Would love to hear your suggestions, coz I feel the list is not optimized. Not convinced of Gideon in SB. Maybe go RW or BW? Cut the Scrounger and go for a more Human theme?
I think you have a lot of good insights about the creatures in the deck. I am concerned about your manabase. Spire of Industry can't give you a colored source turn 1. Essentially it can get you from W to WW, R to RR, etc. But not the 14 sources you need for a 90% chance of casting a W or R spell turn 1. Here is what Nevelo did to have a good chance of T1 R or W. Here is what I did for a Mardu base, leaning on Aether Hub, but 4 Aether Hubs may be greedy.
Solutions? I think 4 Spires makes a colored T1 difficult. You may want to cut back on them. You can make W turn 1, so giving up on Inventor's Apprentice, maybe in favor of Toolcraft Exemplar, but keeping the R 3 drops is a possibility. Aether Hub is another way to get a Mardu base. Otherwise you may want to choose between R and B.
In any case, I like a Key to the City if you are running Scrounger.
Going to 4 Fatal Push mainboard is a much bigger commitment than wanting to bring back Scroungers. This WRb base would work better with Harnessed Lightning. For Pushes to work, I don't really see it without more Shambling Vents and Needle Spires mainboard.
With a lot of weenies, she was not that hard to flip. I remember a game with Envoy, followed by Mimic, and then Inspector and Captain on turn 3. She flipped at the beginning of turn 4, I added Lieutenant, and got a 1/1 token at the end of the turn (2/2 with Mimic, pumping Lieutenant) : an 8/8 is hard to beat. She got disintegrated two turns later, but opponent had to chump block at least one time, and she created two tokens. She was the immediate threat opponent had to kill, but she effectively distracted opponent from my other threats. I'm happy with her with that many creatures.
FYI, I noticed an interesting interaction between Selfless Spirit and Renegade Rallier, if one wants to go GW. Rallier brings the spirit back if you sac it during combat or first main phase.
Also, if Avacyn joins the party, and flips at the beginning of your own upkeep, casting Rallier will help restore your board quickly.
Thalia's Lieutenant is also happy to attack as a 1/1 or 2/2 if you have Rallier in hand : if opponent doesn't realise and blocks her, she'll come back to add more counters to all your Humans (including Rallier).
Maybe not enough to convince me to go GW or Naya, but these interactions are interesting.
FYI, I noticed an interesting interaction between Selfless Spirit and Renegade Rallier, if one wants to go GW. Rallier brings the spirit back if you sac it during combat or first main phase.
Also, if Avacyn joins the party, and flips at the beginning of your own upkeep, casting Rallier will help restore your board quickly.
Thalia's Lieutenant is also happy to attack as a 1/1 or 2/2 if you have Rallier in hand : if opponent doesn't realise and blocks her, she'll come back to add more counters to all your Humans (including Rallier).
Maybe not enough to convince me to go GW or Naya, but these interactions are interesting.
Good thoughts. In my goldfishing 4C Not Blue, I decided that Siphoner was not worth the inconsistency and am back to Naya. That leaves me 4 maindeck slots in which some combination of Rallier, Recruiter and Captain should fit nicely. Cryptolith and Bestiary are intriguing also.
Good thoughts. In my goldfishing 4C Not Blue, I decided that Siphoner was not worth the inconsistency and am back to Naya. That leaves me 4 maindeck slots in which some combination of Rallier, Recruiter and Captain should fit nicely. Cryptolith and Bestiary are intriguing also.
Actually, if you remove black, and thus 4 Grim Flayer and 4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, that's 8 free slots in the main deck. Also, you can probably remove the 2 Attune with Aether, and add land #24. That should free up another slot.
I don't understand the purpose of Cryptolith in this deck. Care to explain?
And Bestiary is just cute, I think. It is of course amazing to get extra cards, but you have to lose an important turn doing nothing, and you'll cast your next spells under their curve to get the extra card (while opponent continues with his plan and stays on curve, growing fatter than you). Play it on turn 3, and then a drop 3 on turn 4 + an extra card. During the same time, opponent will have added 7cmc worth of threat on the board. I would be scared playing that sequence.
Good thoughts. In my goldfishing 4C Not Blue, I decided that Siphoner was not worth the inconsistency and am back to Naya. That leaves me 4 maindeck slots in which some combination of Rallier, Recruiter and Captain should fit nicely. Cryptolith and Bestiary are intriguing also.
Actually, if you remove black, and thus 4 Grim Flayer and 4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, that's 8 free slots in the main deck. Also, you can probably remove the 2 Attune with Aether, and add land #24. That should free up another slot.
I don't understand the purpose of Cryptolith in this deck. Care to explain?
And Bestiary is just cute, I think. It is of course amazing to get extra cards, but you have to lose an important turn doing nothing, and you'll cast your next spells under their curve to get the extra card (while opponent continues with his plan and stays on curve, growing fatter than you). Play it on turn 3, and then a drop 3 on turn 4 + an extra card. During the same time, opponent will have added 7cmc worth of threat on the board. I would be scared playing that sequence.
I had already decided to bring the Voltaic Brawlers back in over the Flayers as the Brawlers worked better with the Siphoners, Harnessed Lightning and Hubs.
As for Rites, Tracker and Recruiter are mana sinks. Bestiary is amazing in attritiony matchups and the scry alone fixes draws. I have a million 2 drops, so after turn 3, there are often spare mana. But this is just defensiveness. Before Wednesday, I'll narrow down to the cards I am committed to.
2-1 on XMage vs Bant Humans
And at MNM...
2-0 vs GW Revolt
2-1 vs Jeskai Saheeli (he won top decking the combo, because I totally dominated with 3 Mimic and Gideon = 5/5 tokens)
2-0 vs UR Visions Amalgam (rough, but Menace got me around)
Release the Gremlins was a fine addition to the SB. Glad to have Lantern Scout in the main deck, if only to get an extra trigger on Firemantle Mage.
I relayed Village Messenger to the SB, for the games when on the play and extra aggressiveness would help.
Gideon is as always amazing, even more with Menace and Lifelink.
I'm considering removing Outnumber for Repel the Abominable. There are amazing plays with that card, and it even stops the Saheeli Combo. It can often give you card advantage, and even protect your team from damage based removals, including Kozilek Return and Radiant Flames (even Avacyn).
I'll probably test it next time, or on XMage. But not this Friday, as real life (wife) has already planned something for me.
Just took on a UR Dynavolt Thing on XMage, and won 2-0, thanks to Repel the Abominable. I was down to 11, facing a flipped Thing and Fumarole. It protected me from opponent's alpha Strike while allowing me to kill Wandering Fumarole on the block. I then added two creatures, including a surged Bushwhacker, and attacked while he was tapped out. Next turn he couldn't do enough damage to kill me, so he kept his flipped Thing to block. But then I played Firemantle Mage and another surged Bushwhacker = no block and lots of damage. Voilà!
I never lost game 1 so far with this deck, even on the draw... But I yet have to play against Golgari Constrictor and Mardu Vehicles. Maybe cold reality will strike me then...
I played with patbou deck against a BG Constrictor and a Mardu Vehicules on Magic Online.
Lost both game 1-2 but really close (both time the opponent was below 5 life). I did not have any Gideon, put Town Gossipmonger and Shock instead.
Lantern and Firemantle Mage are so good. Sometime, when I have only 3 lands, I keep aExpedition Envoy in my hand to use it as a Surge enabler for Reckless Bushwhacker
Instead of attacking right away, I think it's sometime better to just build your army and then attack with a surged Reckless Bushwhacker while you have a Firemantle Mage.
If you don't attack on the first 3 turns, the opponent get confident and instead of using removal, he use his mana to cast creatures. Once you have Firemantle Mage and Bushwacker on the battlefield, it's too late.
I played with patbou deck against a BG Constrictor and a Mardu Vehicules on Magic Online.
Lost both game 1-2 but really close (both time the opponent was below 5 life). I did not have any Gideon, put Town Gossipmonger and Shock instead.
Lantern and Firemantle Mage are so good. Sometime, when I have only 3 lands, I keep aExpedition Envoy in my hand to use it as a Surge enabler for Reckless Bushwhacker
Instead of attacking right away, I think it's sometime better to just build your army and then attack with a surged Reckless Bushwhacker while you have a Firemantle Mage.
If you don't attack on the first 3 turns, the opponent get confident and instead of using removal, he use his mana to cast creatures. Once you have Firemantle Mage and Bushwacker on the battlefield, it's too late.
I'm happy to see the deck didn't get completely destroyed by BG and Mardu. Losing 1-2 means that you made opponent sweat, and that we may have a chance.
Game 1, were you on the play? Or on the draw? This makes a huge difference, as both decks are very heavily (and I mean a lot) favored on the play. Instead of losing game 1 and 3 on the draw, it is you that win these two games on the play.
In the end, the matchups were probably decided by the coin toss prior to game 1. If that's the case, the version of the deck you played probably has a 50% win ratio against our nemesis. Which is not bad. Some fine tunings can bring that up to 55-60%.
Have you tried the version with Repel the Abominable? Or Outnumber? Were you playing Release the Gremlins in the SB?
BTW, I no longer shuffle all 15 SB cards in the deck to transform it. If in the play, I focus on agressivity and trade 2 Gideon's for 2 Messengers (almost always, whatever the matchup). On the draw, I usually shuffle in all SB, except Messenger and Release, and remove 4 Captain, 4 Bushwhacker and 2 Inspector (we already get card advantage on the draw). Release is super good against Vehicles and other artifact heavy decks. It's a removal, and takes the place of Declaration or Snare.
Repel the Aboninable would have helped you against Kozilek's Return, and maybe against GB and Mardu at large (creating unexpected situations). I have yet to test the deck against them, and all this is theorycrafting. But it seems fairly possible.
Imagine preventing the 3 damage from Unlicensed Disintegration and making blocks where none of your human dies, but half of attackers get killed?
Edit : About Fumigate... I guess this all comes to knowing when to push and when to hold on to your cards when you know opponent is playing sweepers. It may be better to play one creature at a time, and no more than two on the battlefield (or one and Needle Spires), and grind opponent's life by attacking each turn. Eventually, opponent will get tired of this and will Fumigate without much value. That's when you'll follow with 2 or 3 one-drops (save them for this) and Bushwhacker, and win.
PS : This is why I side out Captain against Control, and in the draw. You won't extend anyway, and opponent will have an easy time making sure you stay under 4 creatures. 2/2 bears are dumb...
It may be better to play one creature at a time, and no more than two on the battlefield (or one and Needle Spires), and grind opponent's life by attacking each turn. Eventually, opponent will get tired of this and will Fumigate without much value. That's when you'll follow with 2 or 3 one-drops (save them for this) and Bushwhacker, and win
I did that a lot and it's how I was able to survive most of the game. In my GW Humans deck, I had really good result with Heroic Intervention instead of removal. I think we need something like that for RW
I also had a Lone Rider for testing with Lantern Scout. His always the first to get hit by the Fatal Push. I call him my Lone Decoy
I really don't like these defensive spells at 3 cmc. They'll slow down the deck too much, to keep mana up to cast them. Repel the Abominable won't help against Fumigate, but will do the job against Kozilek's Return and Radiant Flames, with the additional bonus on protecting your life against non-human damage (read : vehicles, golgarians, burns, etc.). All this at a reduced mana cost. Very similar to Moonmist, and this card was the MVP of any werewolf deck back in old Innistrad (my deck was tier 1 in my community, and 75% of my wins were on the back of this card alone ; I recall only a single game I lost playing Moonmist). I may be wrong however, and this may be the wrong format for such a card, but the tribe seems strong, and Humans aren't as present in the meta game as they used to be (were they everywhere, this card would be pointless).
BTW, have I mentioned Repel the Abominable wrecks Saheeli combo? Let opponent resolves their infinite cats, gang block the true one and cast this. The real cat will die, the copies will evaporate end of turn, and the battlefield will be empty of blockers so you can either attack Saheeli or the opponent, whatever is best. This card basically 2 for 1 the cat and Saheeli. Is there another card that can do that?
I really don't like these defensive spells at 3 cmc. They'll slow down the deck too much, to keep mana up to cast them. Repel the Abominable won't help against Fumigate, but will do the job against Kozilek's Return and Radiant Flames, with the additional bonus on protecting your life against non-human damage (read : vehicles, golgarians, burns, etc.). All this at a reduced mana cost. Very similar to Moonmist, and this card was the MVP of any werewolf deck back in old Innistrad (my deck was tier 1 in my community, and 75% of my wins were on the back of this card alone ; I recall only a single game I lost playing Moonmist). I may be wrong however, and this may be the wrong format for such a card, but the tribe seems strong, and Humans aren't as present in the meta game as they used to be (were they everywhere, this card would be pointless).
BTW, have I mentioned Repel the Abominable wrecks Saheeli combo? Let opponent resolves their infinite cats, gang block the true one and cast this. The real cat will die, the copies will evaporate end of turn, and the battlefield will be empty of blockers so you can either attack Saheeli or the opponent, whatever is best. This card basically 2 for 1 the cat and Saheeli. Is there another card that can do that?
Yahenni's Expertise is pretty bad against all these effects except Eerie Interlude. I am not saying these effects are good, but I am always curious about what works. If someone wants to try these effects and report back, that seems good.
A wary Saheeli combo player who has 3 million cat copies need not attack with the original.
We discussed this a bit back and I tired Eerie, and I have to admit, it was too expensive to be relevant most of the time. Hoser was right at the time, that the best way to beat sweepers is probably just load up on Gideon post board.
4 Needle Spires
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Hanweir Battlements
6 Plains
6 Mountain
Creatures (34)
2 Village Messenger
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Firemantle Mage
4 Outnumber
1 Stone Quarry
1 Heart of Kiran
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Stasis Snare
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Archangel Avacyn
I played this deck tonight at FNM, and won 3-0 (2-0, 2-0 and 2-0) against Sultai Midrange and Jund Energy in the final (I don't remember what the first opponent was playing).
Nevelo's comment really inspired me, to go the Weenies way. I also looked at Zac Hill's list, and then it struck me that Expedition Envoy and Reckless Bushwhacker were both Ally, and that Metallic Mimic could well be one if need be.
I figured that in a world of Mardu Vehicles and Golgari Constrictor, Menace would be an amazingly good ability to grant to a bunch of beefed up weenies (thanks to Mimic and Lieutenant). So I squeezed Firemantle Mage into the list, ditched the artifact theme, and focused instead on token production with Hanweir Militia Captain and Hanweir Garrison. With a low curve and 34 creatures, the Captain can easily flip, and Garrison is crazy with Mimic and Lieutenant. Village Messenger is a 1-drop filler : Human and with Haste, he's doing his job ; more so if he's a 2/2 with Mimic, and eventually a 3/3 Menace when he flips (or 4/4 if Lieutenant can help before transformation).
The Sideboard plan is simple : do nothing if you're on the play (deck is so fast, you should almost always win when on the play), or side in everything if you're on the draw. I thus remove 4 Captain, 4 Bushwhacker, 4 Outnumber, 2 Messenger and 1 Envoy. The deck is then transformed to deal with almost all decks in longer games, and opponent will certainly be taken aback by the change of strategy.
Fun play : Mimic is a Human in the early game. Later, be ready to make it an Ally instead if it can help. In the final against Jund Energy, I was facing a strong opposition of 2 Greenbelt Rampager, Scrapheap Scrounger, Rishkar and Heart of Kiran. I had a wider board, but not enough to go lethal. We both were top decking. I Top decked fine cards, but held on to them, waiting for the right moment. Then, I got a Mimic, casted it and said "Ally". "Ally?!?!", said my opponent. He understood as I followed up with a 3/2 Envoy and a 3/2 Bushwhacker, hasting the trio and adding more than 15 power to the battlefield, triggering Rally and Menace on all Weenies.
I'm considering replacing some or all Outnumber in the main deck for Shock, to deal with Copycat. Also, Lantern Scout in the SB, along with Gideon, would be amazing (I think). Maybe instead of Gisela and Heart. To get the full playset of Lantern Scout, I would have to move Declaration in Stone to the MB, instead of Outnumber. I'll probably test that next time.
What do you think?
Edit : BTW, about the post SB curve and 23 lands... I did my maths (hoser2 knows how good I am at statistics), and 23 lands on the draw is better odds to be on curve until turn 5 than 24 lands on the play. So if I would play the post SB list as a main deck with 24 lands, it only makes sense that it will run smoothly on the draw with 23 lands. I will, however, replace Stone Quarry with a Plains, to help casting on curve (and with a much higher white mana requirement).
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Somehow, I haven't realized that killing the cat would disrupt the Saheeli Copy Combo. I was too focused on the Planeswalker herself. So yes, I will keep Outnumber. It delivers quite a punch in a deck with 34 creatures, some of them producing tokens.
About Lantern Scout : I only played 2 in the main deck at GP Toronto last year in my Ally Company deck. This, among other factors, prevented me from getting to Day 2. Allies being generally weak blockers (Rally doesn't trigger at instant speed, except with CoCo), they were most of the time tapped out and attacking (Menace and First Strike). Gaining life was the deck's protection against Aggro and Midrange : I could continue with the aggressive plan, without having to keep blockers or chump blocking with summon sick Ally, thanks to the huge life gained while attacking. In the end, I changed the deck a bit for the Sunday Super Series, and played the full playset of Lantern Scout to win the event.
I'm not sure this Boros Allied Humans need that life boost as much as Ally Company needed it back then. Time will tell, and I yet have to play the deck against Mardu Vehicles and Golgari Constrictor.
Heart of Kiran is probably a very bad card in this deck (post SB). Unless my Weenies are pumped with +1/+1 counters, none can crew the Legendary Vehicle by itself. I'm probably better playing an extra threat (Lantern Scout), than forcing 2 creatures to activate a third one.
I put Gisela there for both the life boost and her ability to block an opposing Heart of Kiran. But I suppose Heart is often a 5/5, and Gisela is quite slow (uneffective until turn 5). Also, she removes synergy with Humans and Allies. Lantern Scout is probably just better to add a Rally trigger, and with a real board effect as soon as it ETB (remove it if you want, I'm still getting Lifelink on all my Humans this turn). It can't deal with Heart of Kiran, but : the life gained may be enough to nullify one or two of its attacks ; a 4/3 Lantern Scout (Mimic or Lieutenant) can kill it on offense ; and an extra Menace Rally trigger can win a game.
I'm pretty excited to go wide with Garrison, and its synergy with Mimic and Lieutenant. But maybe it's just cute, and Lantern Scout would be better in the main deck. The deck certainly can't support 4 Bushwhacker, 4 Mage, 4 Garrison and 4 Lantern Scout ; 12 drop-3 is more than enough or any deck. Maybe it is the Garrison that should go in the SB...
If you happen to test it out, tell me what you think. Thanks!
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
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Currently, I am trying to figure out how to abuse Glint-Sleeve Siphoner along with the boom of the Mimic-Lieutenant-Garrison. That forces me into truly Mardu at least. The draws to G (Tracker and Champion) are replaceable (Siphoner for Tracker and Lantern Scout for Champion), but keeping Siphoner fed with energy is easier with G. Four color is just unwieldy, though.
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Grim Flayer
1 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Hanweir Garrison
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Tireless Tracker
3 Heron's Grace Champion
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Attune with Aether
4 Harnessed Lightning
Lands:23
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Inspiring Vantage
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Fatal Push
1 Fragmentize
1 Natural State
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Natural Obsolescence
1 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Thopter Arrest
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Heron's Grace Champion
1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
The meta may be the biggest problem, as Reflector Mage being banned makes bigger creatures better and BG's prominence improves Fumigate. Feedback appreciated, but I already know that aggressive Boros is probably more competitive. I am mostly looking for suggestions that work within the overall concept.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
As for card advantage, Thraben Inspector still does the job. Tireless Tracker too, if you decide to go back to Naya.
But as you said yourself, Boros is probably more competitive. To be honest, you can't imagine how much it pained me to remove green for my deck. I deeply wanted to play Tracker, Champion, but mostly Mimic + Recruiter (flip this T3, get an extra card, then follow on T4 with 8 mana worth of creatures: Mimic, Lieutenant, Militia Captain and Pacifist = 14/13 added to the battlefield). But I decided I wanted to win... it even meant my "best" cards would be relayed to a transformational SB (Gideon & Avacyn).
But it worked, and it was very fun to play!
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Also, while you're at it, maybe replace some Shock (2?) with Fatal Push, to deal with Constrictor? Unlicensed Disintegration maybe a good SB option on the play. And extra Fatal Push on the draw.
I was thinking of doing these changes myself, after reading Mike Sigrist's article.
Edit: I forgot about it, but Thraben Inspector is also an artifact producer, if you don't eat the Clue. Pia Nalaar does the same, and may be worth consideration (but she'll take the place of an Ally).
Edit 2 : The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to add Lantern Scout to the main deck. An extra Ally to trigger Menace, and all the lifegained should help winning game one, on the play or on the draw, no?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Solutions? I think 4 Spires makes a colored T1 difficult. You may want to cut back on them. You can make W turn 1, so giving up on Inventor's Apprentice, maybe in favor of Toolcraft Exemplar, but keeping the R 3 drops is a possibility. Aether Hub is another way to get a Mardu base. Otherwise you may want to choose between R and B.
In any case, I like a Key to the City if you are running Scrounger.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
3 Aether Hub
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Inspiring Vantage
3 Mountain
2 Needle Spires
2 Plains
1 Shambling Vent
2 Spire of Industry
2 Needle Spires
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I'm considering these changes from my previous deck :
-2 Village Messenger
-4 Hanweir Garrison
+2 Gideon
+4 Lantern Scout
Maybe I need to add a mana (23?).
And maybe replace Outnumber by Harnessed Lightning. Not sure.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
With a lot of weenies, she was not that hard to flip. I remember a game with Envoy, followed by Mimic, and then Inspector and Captain on turn 3. She flipped at the beginning of turn 4, I added Lieutenant, and got a 1/1 token at the end of the turn (2/2 with Mimic, pumping Lieutenant) : an 8/8 is hard to beat. She got disintegrated two turns later, but opponent had to chump block at least one time, and she created two tokens. She was the immediate threat opponent had to kill, but she effectively distracted opponent from my other threats. I'm happy with her with that many creatures.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Do you think Resolute Blademaster is to slow for the Humans Ally deck?
Also, can Ally Encampment be a fix for the manabase as well as evasion against removal?
Also, if Avacyn joins the party, and flips at the beginning of your own upkeep, casting Rallier will help restore your board quickly.
Thalia's Lieutenant is also happy to attack as a 1/1 or 2/2 if you have Rallier in hand : if opponent doesn't realise and blocks her, she'll come back to add more counters to all your Humans (including Rallier).
Maybe not enough to convince me to go GW or Naya, but these interactions are interesting.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Actually, if you remove black, and thus 4 Grim Flayer and 4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner, that's 8 free slots in the main deck. Also, you can probably remove the 2 Attune with Aether, and add land #24. That should free up another slot.
I don't understand the purpose of Cryptolith in this deck. Care to explain?
And Bestiary is just cute, I think. It is of course amazing to get extra cards, but you have to lose an important turn doing nothing, and you'll cast your next spells under their curve to get the extra card (while opponent continues with his plan and stays on curve, growing fatter than you). Play it on turn 3, and then a drop 3 on turn 4 + an extra card. During the same time, opponent will have added 7cmc worth of threat on the board. I would be scared playing that sequence.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
As for Rites, Tracker and Recruiter are mana sinks. Bestiary is amazing in attritiony matchups and the scry alone fixes draws. I have a million 2 drops, so after turn 3, there are often spare mana. But this is just defensiveness. Before Wednesday, I'll narrow down to the cards I am committed to.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Needle Spires
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Westvale Abbey
9 Plains
3 Mountain
Creatures (32)
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Lantern Scout
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Firemantle Mage
4 Outnumber
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Plains
2 Village Messenger
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Stasis Snare
2 Release the Gremlins
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Archangel Avacyn
2-1 on XMage vs Bant Humans
And at MNM...
2-0 vs GW Revolt
2-1 vs Jeskai Saheeli (he won top decking the combo, because I totally dominated with 3 Mimic and Gideon = 5/5 tokens)
2-0 vs UR Visions Amalgam (rough, but Menace got me around)
Release the Gremlins was a fine addition to the SB. Glad to have Lantern Scout in the main deck, if only to get an extra trigger on Firemantle Mage.
I relayed Village Messenger to the SB, for the games when on the play and extra aggressiveness would help.
Gideon is as always amazing, even more with Menace and Lifelink.
I'm considering removing Outnumber for Repel the Abominable. There are amazing plays with that card, and it even stops the Saheeli Combo. It can often give you card advantage, and even protect your team from damage based removals, including Kozilek Return and Radiant Flames (even Avacyn).
I'll probably test it next time, or on XMage. But not this Friday, as real life (wife) has already planned something for me.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I never lost game 1 so far with this deck, even on the draw... But I yet have to play against Golgari Constrictor and Mardu Vehicles. Maybe cold reality will strike me then...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Lost both game 1-2 but really close (both time the opponent was below 5 life). I did not have any Gideon, put Town Gossipmonger and Shock instead.
Lantern and Firemantle Mage are so good. Sometime, when I have only 3 lands, I keep aExpedition Envoy in my hand to use it as a Surge enabler for Reckless Bushwhacker
Instead of attacking right away, I think it's sometime better to just build your army and then attack with a surged Reckless Bushwhacker while you have a Firemantle Mage.
If you don't attack on the first 3 turns, the opponent get confident and instead of using removal, he use his mana to cast creatures. Once you have Firemantle Mage and Bushwacker on the battlefield, it's too late.
I have no problem flipping Hanweir Militia Captain.
Kozilek Return and Fumigate are a real problem for this deck.
I'm happy to see the deck didn't get completely destroyed by BG and Mardu. Losing 1-2 means that you made opponent sweat, and that we may have a chance.
Game 1, were you on the play? Or on the draw? This makes a huge difference, as both decks are very heavily (and I mean a lot) favored on the play. Instead of losing game 1 and 3 on the draw, it is you that win these two games on the play.
In the end, the matchups were probably decided by the coin toss prior to game 1. If that's the case, the version of the deck you played probably has a 50% win ratio against our nemesis. Which is not bad. Some fine tunings can bring that up to 55-60%.
Have you tried the version with Repel the Abominable? Or Outnumber? Were you playing Release the Gremlins in the SB?
BTW, I no longer shuffle all 15 SB cards in the deck to transform it. If in the play, I focus on agressivity and trade 2 Gideon's for 2 Messengers (almost always, whatever the matchup). On the draw, I usually shuffle in all SB, except Messenger and Release, and remove 4 Captain, 4 Bushwhacker and 2 Inspector (we already get card advantage on the draw). Release is super good against Vehicles and other artifact heavy decks. It's a removal, and takes the place of Declaration or Snare.
Repel the Aboninable would have helped you against Kozilek's Return, and maybe against GB and Mardu at large (creating unexpected situations). I have yet to test the deck against them, and all this is theorycrafting. But it seems fairly possible.
Imagine preventing the 3 damage from Unlicensed Disintegration and making blocks where none of your human dies, but half of attackers get killed?
Edit : About Fumigate... I guess this all comes to knowing when to push and when to hold on to your cards when you know opponent is playing sweepers. It may be better to play one creature at a time, and no more than two on the battlefield (or one and Needle Spires), and grind opponent's life by attacking each turn. Eventually, opponent will get tired of this and will Fumigate without much value. That's when you'll follow with 2 or 3 one-drops (save them for this) and Bushwhacker, and win.
PS : This is why I side out Captain against Control, and in the draw. You won't extend anyway, and opponent will have an easy time making sure you stay under 4 creatures. 2/2 bears are dumb...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I don't remember.
No Shock or Harnessed Lightning and Fragmentize. I also used 2 Immolating Glare. Really good against Vehicle.
I had 3 Always Watching in Mainboard and switched them for more removal.
I did that a lot and it's how I was able to survive most of the game. In my GW Humans deck, I had really good result with Heroic Intervention instead of removal. I think we need something like that for RW
I also had a Lone Rider for testing with Lantern Scout. His always the first to get hit by the Fatal Push. I call him my Lone Decoy
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Both Make a Stand and Eerie Interlude are slow, but similar to Heroic Intervention.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
BTW, have I mentioned Repel the Abominable wrecks Saheeli combo? Let opponent resolves their infinite cats, gang block the true one and cast this. The real cat will die, the copies will evaporate end of turn, and the battlefield will be empty of blockers so you can either attack Saheeli or the opponent, whatever is best. This card basically 2 for 1 the cat and Saheeli. Is there another card that can do that?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
A wary Saheeli combo player who has 3 million cat copies need not attack with the original.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)