I'm so happy to see big man Joe run an efficient combo oriented list. Ever since I saw Kenji's brew sketch of this deck, I've felt that it's best played as a focused combo deck. Trying to go Zoo (with removal) or midrange (Tracker) makes it a terrible version of BG, and trying to do both lets you succeed in neither camp. I've run a mainboard that's something like 4-5 cards off Joe's non-land mainboard for months now, no removal, no MB Hellions and no Trackers. I'm not bragging or saying that I've been convinced that I've had some kind of insight or anything like that, I've told myself that probably a matter of preference or that it's bias because I think playing explosive combo is more fun. I'm just saying that I'm happy to get some confirmation that I've not been fooling myself when thinking that this strategy is very much viable.
I hate Cinder Glade in this deck, and I run zero. 3/9 Mountain/Forest plus playsets of Game Trail and Hub (substitute basics for U/x fastlands accordingly) means that you very rarely play a tapped land, and curving out is extremely important. Sometimes I lack double red to go Rush+Fury, but it's rare, and I'd rather have that problem than miss a step on my curve. If you add some U/x fastlands for a blue sideboard, Cinder Glade goes from "pretty bad" to almost a straight up tapland.
I've also advocated Rush of Adrenaline over Smash in this deck since the early days, I run 4 Rush and zero Smash. This is something that I feel is nowhere near a matter of preference, I absolutely think that Smash is simply incorrect. The +1 power over trample is not worth it. I want to go through their creatures, not outsize a blocker, and +2 power on Pummeler is very rarely too little to kill. I ran 4x Smash for like two events, and way too often was I one trample/evasion effect away from a win, so I tossed them and never once looked back. You need to be able to combo kill consistently without Pummeler.
Arlinn isn't bad. What she lacks in raw efficiency, she makes up for in flexibility, as she can be 1) a pump spell for your creatures 2) a creature for your pump spells 3) a grindy value engine. We're a part A/part B deck, like reanimator decks, so cards that can play both sides come at a premium, though we are picky on efficiency. Arlinn is basically a Charm. I'd run no more than one in my playstyle, and that 1-of is currently in my SB against control because I'm on a green hulk in that MB slot. It's a toss-up and I'm not convinced that Arlinn isn't better, the reasoning is that Hulk can be a creature and a pump spell. I would never spend more than the one slot between Arlinn or Hulk, they are both too slow for multiples. The Hulk sure has won me some games I'd otherwise have lost, so it stays for now, but I'm wsry about how easy it is to Harness for 4 damage in response to the ETB trigger. It has a glaring weak spot there, and people tend to be ready for it against RG.
Here's the deck. I'm not confident enough about my SB to post it. I'm going back and forth between the fourth Cub and the fourth Fury, I wish I could run 3.5 of each. Drawing two Fury sucks so much.
I tried the deck again and fell into some seriously bad luck, I haven't won a dice roll in two weeks and it cost me my matchups I went 0-3.
U/W Flash:(1-2) Won a game with Mana bear beatdown, all damage coming from her and pumps. Game one wasn't anything special, but game three I got reflector mage'd twice and then elder deep fiend reared it's ugly face, and he had just enough for lethal. It was my first time playing the deck with this deck and I'm not 100% sure I SB'd right, but the matchup just felt bad on the draw.
W/B Sac deck(1-2)(saffronolives deck from a few months back). First time playing the deck and I had clunky draws, longtusk cub was bad He always had servos out with cutthroats and again could not find any of my removal to kill the cuttthroats.
Dwarfs R/W(0-2) Was really bad, I didn't draw removal game 2 or creatures apart from my opening hands. WHich was icing on a defeating day.
I hope everyone else had better luck then.
So far I'm 2-4 with the deck. I think I like the 2/2 cub/lightning split better then 4/cub. I feel like I just need to roll dice better.
Sorry if I just suck at googling, but why can't I find coverage of Lossett in the Players' Championship finals? He won the semifinals on coverage, so I don't see how the final match might have escaped coverage. Is it paywalled or something?
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Hey all. Same deck I've pretty much had since gameday. Win a box got me out to FNM and got 2nd out of 22-24 (couldn't recall) with 4-1, losing only to the winner at 4-0-1 running Wb Hummans, which is faster than my version of the deck. Thinking of going more into the combo and upping to 3/2 or 3/3 rush/fury; trimming wanderer (to SB), possibly 1 harness and/or 1 mountain. Though, I hate having only pump in hand and/or land flood. Probably just drop plummet and 1 evolution from board to fit wanderers then drop 1 mountain to up to 3/3.
Rnd 1, Black mostly Brown. He is land screw so I just win. G2 no SB or drop 2 for the 2 flows (saw scrounger). He keeps risky hand and it pays off. he turn 2 3/2 into t3 5/5 vehicle, mana rock. Beats 5 t4. Another [c]Cultivator's Caravan[/1c] then another to crew it t5 swinging 10. G3 go off t4 and/or he was land flood. 2-1
Rnd2 1-0. RW control. He killed a lot of dudes off. I finally land a pummeler and swing for 160. G2 think I got it with triple protected pummeler, BD after playing, BD his turn, then BD with LtF for 28/28. 2-0
Rnd3 2-0. Wb Humans. Slow curves into 2 dudes always watching, I stumble. G2 stick with combo to try and go faster since I'm on the play, doesn't work out, he gets the nuts with t1 3/2 fs dude. double inspectors, always watching, t4 Lou! 0-2.
Rnd4 2-1. Temur Marvel. (first time!) Get him pretty quick, think he whiffed 1 marvel spin. G2 went transition but kept combo in for speed drop some hellions and wanderers/1hydra since whirler makes lots of chumpers (go to 61). He gets 2 lame spins then hits 3rd spin after a shuffle. G3 get him moderately fast again, maybe 1 lame spin. 2-1.
Greenbelt Rampager incoming. We did want a one drop, and it's certainly good in straight aggro/midrange build, but is it playable in Pummeler/pump decks? I'm a bit sceptical.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
One of Joe's feedback was he sideboarded too much during testing. He eventually figured out it was better to sideboard less, sometimes not at all.
For the finals, he brought in 1 Natural State in game 2 and eventually came back to its initial 60 for game 3.
Where did you get this from? Did he do a deck tech or an article somewhere?
I chatted with the guy with also running R/G energy to get his take on the deck, and he said it was weak to control. Maybe Hellions in the board to punch damage?
Joe actually chose not to play Hellion because he concluded (with at least one other player he discussed or tested with) they were not necessary to beat specifically Control at that time (i.e. Players Champs).
Where did you get this from? Did he do a deck tech or an article somewhere?
He talked about it in one of his last streams on Twitch. He usually make a 2Hrs Debrief live after a good perf. You can find it on his Twitch channel. Or you can ask him when he's streaming live.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
It's tricky to evaluate the revolt and improvise mechanics without playing with them. If we had fetchlands then the Narnam Renegade would be just the one drop I was hoping we'd get. As it is it's pretty meh.
The rampager is interesting. It does turn on revolt if you're low on energy. A vanilla fatty isn't the most exciting thing in the world but at 3/4 it does match up well with most of the creatures in the format. Gets sent home crying for negative value by Reflector Mage, of course.
I like the gain energy on attacking mechanic. It could allow you to get the mega-pummeler going a turn faster than the Longtusk Cub's gain energy on doing damage mechanic. Unfortunately the only creatures that got it are off color (Aethergeode Miner) or too expensive (Lightning Runner).
My candidate for sneaky good card of the set: Scrounging Bandar. It'll be terrific if there's a good Winding Constrictor deck in the format, it turns on revolt for free, and I do like the idea of +1/+1 counters on a pummeler.
Honestly AER was everything we could have hoped for. Highspire Infusion, Invigorated Rampage, and Greenbelt Rampager all slot right into the combo version, and Winding Constrictor should be a house in non-combo lists (and maybe even the combo ones). Rampager is at its best in the non-combo versions as well. The printings of Yahenni's Expertise and Fatal Push could be an issue, but other than that there isn't much to complain about
Invigorated Rampage seems so good for the dedicated combo version. Built to Smash and Rush of Adrenaline were great for 1 mana, but they both had their shortcomings. Larger Than Life was always the true combo piece and now we have 4 more of them, and they're instant! Wow
Invigorated Rampage seems so good for the dedicated combo version. Built to Smash and Rush of Adrenaline were great for 1 mana, but they both had their shortcomings. Larger Than Life was always the true combo piece and now we have 4 more of them, and they're instant! Wow
Invigorated Rampage is an unassuming card, but I agree that it's very likely the biggest upgrade for our deck.
I also love Heroic Intervention as a sideboard card, and a small number (1-2) of Kari Zev, Skyship Raider to go wider and have another evasive body. I was interested, but sceptical of Kari because of Larger Than Life until I saw Invigorated Rampage. She's playable with Rampage, however. If we attack with her and have Rampage+Fury, they need three creatures for us to not get the pump through blockers.
Scrapper Champion looks like it would wear trampling pump spells incredibly well, but I don't think we have space next to our four Hydras, and I'm certainly not giving up any of those. It also dies too easily to burn.
I don't know what to make of Highspire Infusion. It looks like it does exactly what we want, but I'm not sure where to slot a two mana pump spell that doesn't give any evasion. It could just be a slow Built to Smash with an upside, and I'm not playing Smash. I'm not a believer.
Edit: Leaning too hard on Heroic Intervention looks dangerous in a format with Yahenni's Expertise. That card is going to be very dangerous for us, and it might turn out to be a good reason to run Highspire Infusion.
It's an awesome card, but I'm honestly not convinced that I want to pay E for a non-evasive, non-resilient beater, even at that impressive rate. It's going to be a core staple in the midrange version for sure, but I'm not sure about the combo version.
I think what I like most about the new set is that it really opens up the colour choices for a mid-range energy deck. Green will likely always be the centerpiece, but you can pair with other colours to add at least something to the deck. The question becomes which is the best combination, and that might even be meta-dependent.
With white you get Aethergeode Miner, whose energy contribution shouldn't be sniffed at, plus sideboard cards like Authority of the Counsuls to help with the new Splinter Twin combo if that takes off. I'd say white gives the least, but is still OK.
I mean red still has a slew of great cards that can work in our deck, so I don't think we should be removing it, but I also don't think it's completely unreasonable either.
More competitively, the Aethergeode Miner turns on revolt for free. It also has a fairly nice revolt piece in the Solemn Recruit. There might be a nice Abzan +1/+1 counter deck coming up in standard if the mana works out.
Kari Zev will turn on revolt with her monkey token but unless I missed it I don't think red has any revolt cards.
Hey guys! Decided to return to Standard and this was what I wanted to build. I already have most of the deck except the lands and a few maindecks. Any tips on how to play the aggro version? Like sequencing, match-ups, sideboarding, and such. Also, why do a lot of lists have Lathnu Helion in the sideboard? Why not main?
I can't wait top start brewing with the new editions. There will be a lot more removal though so that will be hard for us. Looks like 4 toughness is where we want to be. Blossoming defense will be important as ever and the new heroic intervention will be MB by me as least as a 1 of with more in the SB.
Some more cards to consider might be: Narnam renegade for a nice 1 drop with deathtouch. Would work with nature's way too right? Natural obsolescence will also be a good way to deal with problem vehicles and other artifacts, especially the ones enchanted to be creatures. That will be a nice 2 for 1. Hope of Ghirapur is a great anti-control card for the SB. Shock is reprinted as well, which could help us close out the game quicker.
Overall the deck gained some nice pieces for all of its versions.
I have some thoughts about how to go about building this deck but I'll get to them later.
Combo appears to be where a lot of people want to be and I can't disagree. There is too little interaction in the format to care. Enough people are trying to t4 Emrakul you that you just want them dead ASAP.
I think you missed a trick with Rampager. It serves very well as an energy source. It reads G: Add E, and you can do this repeatedly. This makes it useful even in a Pummeler deck.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
I hate Cinder Glade in this deck, and I run zero. 3/9 Mountain/Forest plus playsets of Game Trail and Hub (substitute basics for U/x fastlands accordingly) means that you very rarely play a tapped land, and curving out is extremely important. Sometimes I lack double red to go Rush+Fury, but it's rare, and I'd rather have that problem than miss a step on my curve. If you add some U/x fastlands for a blue sideboard, Cinder Glade goes from "pretty bad" to almost a straight up tapland.
I've also advocated Rush of Adrenaline over Smash in this deck since the early days, I run 4 Rush and zero Smash. This is something that I feel is nowhere near a matter of preference, I absolutely think that Smash is simply incorrect. The +1 power over trample is not worth it. I want to go through their creatures, not outsize a blocker, and +2 power on Pummeler is very rarely too little to kill. I ran 4x Smash for like two events, and way too often was I one trample/evasion effect away from a win, so I tossed them and never once looked back. You need to be able to combo kill consistently without Pummeler.
Arlinn isn't bad. What she lacks in raw efficiency, she makes up for in flexibility, as she can be 1) a pump spell for your creatures 2) a creature for your pump spells 3) a grindy value engine. We're a part A/part B deck, like reanimator decks, so cards that can play both sides come at a premium, though we are picky on efficiency. Arlinn is basically a Charm. I'd run no more than one in my playstyle, and that 1-of is currently in my SB against control because I'm on a green hulk in that MB slot. It's a toss-up and I'm not convinced that Arlinn isn't better, the reasoning is that Hulk can be a creature and a pump spell. I would never spend more than the one slot between Arlinn or Hulk, they are both too slow for multiples. The Hulk sure has won me some games I'd otherwise have lost, so it stays for now, but I'm wsry about how easy it is to Harness for 4 damage in response to the ETB trigger. It has a glaring weak spot there, and people tend to be ready for it against RG.
Here's the deck. I'm not confident enough about my SB to post it. I'm going back and forth between the fourth Cub and the fourth Fury, I wish I could run 3.5 of each. Drawing two Fury sucks so much.
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Uncaged Fury
4 Larger Than Life
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Attune the Aether
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
U/W Flash:(1-2) Won a game with Mana bear beatdown, all damage coming from her and pumps. Game one wasn't anything special, but game three I got reflector mage'd twice and then elder deep fiend reared it's ugly face, and he had just enough for lethal. It was my first time playing the deck with this deck and I'm not 100% sure I SB'd right, but the matchup just felt bad on the draw.
W/B Sac deck(1-2)(saffronolives deck from a few months back). First time playing the deck and I had clunky draws, longtusk cub was bad He always had servos out with cutthroats and again could not find any of my removal to kill the cuttthroats.
Dwarfs R/W(0-2) Was really bad, I didn't draw removal game 2 or creatures apart from my opening hands. WHich was icing on a defeating day.
I hope everyone else had better luck then.
So far I'm 2-4 with the deck. I think I like the 2/2 cub/lightning split better then 4/cub. I feel like I just need to roll dice better.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
4 Aether Hub
8 Forest
4 Game Trail
5 Mountain
// Creatures 21
4 Voltaic Brawler
3 Servant of the Conduit
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Lathnu Hellion
2 Woodland Wanderer
4 Bristling Hydra
2 Rush of Adrenaline
4 Blossoming Defense
3 Harnessed Lightning
1 Uncaged Fury
// Sorceries
4 Attune with Aether
4 Larger Than Life
1 Wastes
1 Harnessed Lightning
2 Incendiary Flow
1 Plummet
3 Aethertorch Renegade
3 Eldritch Evolution
2 Reality Smasher
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
Hey all. Same deck I've pretty much had since gameday. Win a box got me out to FNM and got 2nd out of 22-24 (couldn't recall) with 4-1, losing only to the winner at 4-0-1 running Wb Hummans, which is faster than my version of the deck. Thinking of going more into the combo and upping to 3/2 or 3/3 rush/fury; trimming wanderer (to SB), possibly 1 harness and/or 1 mountain. Though, I hate having only pump in hand and/or land flood. Probably just drop plummet and 1 evolution from board to fit wanderers then drop 1 mountain to up to 3/3.
Rnd 1, Black mostly Brown. He is land screw so I just win. G2 no SB or drop 2 for the 2 flows (saw scrounger). He keeps risky hand and it pays off. he turn 2 3/2 into t3 5/5 vehicle, mana rock. Beats 5 t4. Another [c]Cultivator's Caravan[/1c] then another to crew it t5 swinging 10. G3 go off t4 and/or he was land flood. 2-1
Rnd2 1-0. RW control. He killed a lot of dudes off. I finally land a pummeler and swing for 160. G2 think I got it with triple protected pummeler, BD after playing, BD his turn, then BD with LtF for 28/28. 2-0
Rnd3 2-0. Wb Humans. Slow curves into 2 dudes always watching, I stumble. G2 stick with combo to try and go faster since I'm on the play, doesn't work out, he gets the nuts with t1 3/2 fs dude. double inspectors, always watching, t4 Lou! 0-2.
Rnd4 2-1. Temur Marvel. (first time!) Get him pretty quick, think he whiffed 1 marvel spin. G2 went transition but kept combo in for speed drop some hellions and wanderers/1hydra since whirler makes lots of chumpers (go to 61). He gets 2 lame spins then hits 3rd spin after a shuffle. G3 get him moderately fast again, maybe 1 lame spin. 2-1.
Rnd5 3-1. Jeskai Control. 20/20 t4? G2 160/160 trample t5/6?
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
GreenBelt rampager has been spoiled.
It would seem good in a deck that lacks one drops.
turn 2 greenbelt with blossoming defense in hand seems pretty good
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Where did you get this from? Did he do a deck tech or an article somewhere?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Joe actually chose not to play Hellion because he concluded (with at least one other player he discussed or tested with) they were not necessary to beat specifically Control at that time (i.e. Players Champs).
He talked about it in one of his last streams on Twitch. He usually make a 2Hrs Debrief live after a good perf. You can find it on his Twitch channel. Or you can ask him when he's streaming live.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm looking at Greenbelt Rampager, Heart of Kiran, and Aethersphere Harvester in the more Midrange version. Rampager as a 4-of most certainly, Heart of Kiran as long as I can keep my 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance and 2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, and I'm not sure how I'd fit Aethersphere Harvester but it's worth trying. As it stands it looks like I'm already dropping my last Lathnu Hellion and x3 Incendiary Flow. I don't really want to drop much if any of the x4 Tireless Tracker. If I can block flying reliably my walkers get that much stronger though.
So far it's looking like this for testing.
4 Aether Hub
3 Cinder Glade
9 Forest
3 Game Trail
2 Mountain
Artifacts
2 Heart of Kiran
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Instants
1 Blossoming Defense
4 Harnessed Lightning
Sorceries
4 Attune with Aether
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Greenbelt Rampager
3 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
3 Voltaic Brawler
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Lathnu Hellion
2 Natural State
2 Clip Wings
1 Natural Obsolescence
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Weaver of Lightning
1 Arlinn Kord
1 Incendiary Flow
1 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Plummet
The rampager is interesting. It does turn on revolt if you're low on energy. A vanilla fatty isn't the most exciting thing in the world but at 3/4 it does match up well with most of the creatures in the format. Gets sent home crying for negative value by Reflector Mage, of course.
I like the gain energy on attacking mechanic. It could allow you to get the mega-pummeler going a turn faster than the Longtusk Cub's gain energy on doing damage mechanic. Unfortunately the only creatures that got it are off color (Aethergeode Miner) or too expensive (Lightning Runner).
My candidate for sneaky good card of the set: Scrounging Bandar. It'll be terrific if there's a good Winding Constrictor deck in the format, it turns on revolt for free, and I do like the idea of +1/+1 counters on a pummeler.
Invigorated Rampage is super sweet, of course.
This set looks great and like it will increase the speed of the format significantly.
This should put pressure on Marvel to become more reactive but we will have to see.
I also love Heroic Intervention as a sideboard card, and a small number (1-2) of Kari Zev, Skyship Raider to go wider and have another evasive body. I was interested, but sceptical of Kari because of Larger Than Life until I saw Invigorated Rampage. She's playable with Rampage, however. If we attack with her and have Rampage+Fury, they need three creatures for us to not get the pump through blockers.
Scrapper Champion looks like it would wear trampling pump spells incredibly well, but I don't think we have space next to our four Hydras, and I'm certainly not giving up any of those. It also dies too easily to burn.
I don't know what to make of Highspire Infusion. It looks like it does exactly what we want, but I'm not sure where to slot a two mana pump spell that doesn't give any evasion. It could just be a slow Built to Smash with an upside, and I'm not playing Smash. I'm not a believer.
Edit: Leaning too hard on Heroic Intervention looks dangerous in a format with Yahenni's Expertise. That card is going to be very dangerous for us, and it might turn out to be a good reason to run Highspire Infusion.
It's an awesome card, but I'm honestly not convinced that I want to pay E for a non-evasive, non-resilient beater, even at that impressive rate. It's going to be a core staple in the midrange version for sure, but I'm not sure about the combo version.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
With black you get Fatal Push, which combines with Greenbelt Rampager. You also get Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and Winding Constrictor, whom also combine quite nicely, although admittedly Winding Constrictor combines with a lot of the deck.
With white you get Aethergeode Miner, whose energy contribution shouldn't be sniffed at, plus sideboard cards like Authority of the Counsuls to help with the new Splinter Twin combo if that takes off. I'd say white gives the least, but is still OK.
With blue you get Whirler Virtuoso, Rogue Refiner, Empyreal Voyager and counterspells. I was never the biggest fan of Whirler Virtuoso and Rogue Refiner gives us a pretty decent three drop. Although I'm wondering if the card is a bit of a trap.
I mean red still has a slew of great cards that can work in our deck, so I don't think we should be removing it, but I also don't think it's completely unreasonable either.
More competitively, the Aethergeode Miner turns on revolt for free. It also has a fairly nice revolt piece in the Solemn Recruit. There might be a nice Abzan +1/+1 counter deck coming up in standard if the mana works out.
Kari Zev will turn on revolt with her monkey token but unless I missed it I don't think red has any revolt cards.
Some more cards to consider might be:
Narnam renegade for a nice 1 drop with deathtouch. Would work with nature's way too right?
Natural obsolescence will also be a good way to deal with problem vehicles and other artifacts, especially the ones enchanted to be creatures. That will be a nice 2 for 1.
Hope of Ghirapur is a great anti-control card for the SB.
Shock is reprinted as well, which could help us close out the game quicker.
Overall the deck gained some nice pieces for all of its versions.
I have some thoughts about how to go about building this deck but I'll get to them later.
Combo appears to be where a lot of people want to be and I can't disagree. There is too little interaction in the format to care. Enough people are trying to t4 Emrakul you that you just want them dead ASAP.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG