I really like that list. Fleetwheel Cruiser surprises me though. I would have expected the 3/5 flyer over that.
Google car has haste and is more of a 5 mana potential recurring burn spell. That is how I see it anyway and trample is the big reason to play it. I have been using a pair for awhile in my G/R variants with great success. It replaced lathnu hellions in my deck.
Juza's deck is very similar to one I am tuning up so nice to see him in the top 8 to break up the mardu frenzy. I hope he wins. Definitely want to see what he sideboards and how. Since I don't own hearts I am using a few aethersphere harvesters.
So my deck list is a bit different from other decks I see in here. I run a Naya version of energy. My main reason for running white is to go over the top, but I also gain access to Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Nahiri, the Harbinger and cool energy engines. Early game is ground beaters then, mid to late game swing from the air which most decks have trouble dealing with.
The mana base looks a bit odd but it's balanced and works great. I'm currently thinking about/trying to shove, 2x Aethersphere Harvester or 2x Heart of Kiran in to the list.
Next is Thalia, Heretic Cathar. Great synergy with Nahiri, the Harbinger and is a giant pain for some creature decks to deal with, while also punishing greedy mana bases. It's also huge vs a flashed in Torrential Gearhulk, First Strike is also nothing to scoff at.
Soooo many angels! For the most part they're just big evasive creatures.
Sigarda, Heron's Grace gives fantastic reach with her tokens and can provide tons of energy withAetherstorm Roc and can be fueled by dumping extra lands and unused cards to Nahiri, the Harbinger's +2. Hexproof is randomly good as the deck plays a fair number of Humans and Angels. Not to mention her 4/5 body is great for defending and attacking and she's a tough nut to crack when she comes down turn four via Servant of the Conduit.
Gisela, the Broken Blade and Bruna, the Fading Light are there to round out big evasive threats. Gisela, the Broken Blade demands an answer right away and rarely lives past the turn she's played, but when she can connect it starts to get really bad for your opponent. Her death isn't the worse thing in the world because it threatens an imminent Meld with Bruna, the Fading Light. Bruna, just has a fat butt. She doesn't rely on having Gisela, the Broken Blade in the grave or on the battlefield and is just as happy to toss Sigarda, Heron's Grace back onto the field. She's great for the long game because she's super hard to attack through.
Archangel Avacyn, while good vs a lot of decks, is on the edge. She comes in when I want to go bigger with my creatures. I honestly might just play her because I just bought 2...
Blossoming Defense an effort to help my UB control match, it's by far my worse match up. I'm not really sure what else to add to be honest. Lucky for me nobody seems to play it at my LGS.
Fumigate and Declaration in Stone I lumped them together because they almost always come in together, usually vs creature decks that have better creatures than me.
I'll preface this by saying I've only played in one FNM. I just started getting back into the game and have only been to two so far. I played RW Vehicles in the first one.
Round 1:
He played some Mono U Thing in the Ice list. He obviously wasn't ready for a deck like mine as I just destroyed him 2-0.
Round 2:
He played U/B Tezzeret with a bunch of vehicles. It went 3 games with turns and I almost lost but got there on turn 3. I saw none of my boarded cards wither game. Nahiri was the all star by a long shot. 2-1
Round 3:
Ahhhh BG, Ive played this deck a few times and it's very draw dependent. I drew perfect game one and crushed me, I drew perfect on game 2 and crushed him. Game 3 we both had poor muls to 6 and I ended the game with 11 lands drawn and a bunch of Servant of the Conduit and Attune with Aether draws and a loss. 1-2
Round 4:
WB Tokens with those two guys that can sac creatures to become indestructible. I got game one, he got game 2. Game 3 felt like it took forever I was flooded hard and ended the game drawing 13 lands. However a timely Fumigate top deck gave be the breathing room I needed in health and board position and I was able to turn it around for a win with Sigarda.
Aetherstorm Roc is no constructed card. PT was this week end, I think deck list should take that into account now.
I disagree. I think it's a very constructed playable card and underrated. Looking at cards vs only Heart and Harvester is a very linear way of thinking. At least I can only assume that's what you're talking about, as you gave no real explanation besides what amounts to, card bad.
Aetherstorm Roc is no constructed card. PT was this week end, I think deck list should take that into account now.
I disagree. I think it's a very constructed playable card and underrated. Looking at cards vs only Heart and Harvester is a very linear way of thinking. At least I can only assume that's what you're talking about, as you gave no real explanation besides what amounts to, card bad.
Yes I was referring to Heart of Kiran and Aethersphere Harvester. There was this big tournament full of pro players, just this week end, called the Pro Tour and none of them pros thought that the Roc was good enough. You can play the Roc as much as you want. He's just gonna look ridiculous facing Heart, Aethersphere and Mindwrack demon that's all.
On a more serious note I tested some games with the Juza list and as some of you guys said already, the black splash for Unlicensed and scrapheap is great. Mana is less consistent but those 3 extra damages are bonkers, and the recursion of scrapheap against control, UR dynamo and the like just wins you game.
Still, I think 20 lands is a bit dangerous, 21 seems safer to me. Then there is the longtusk cub issue. Without blossoming defense I really don't like sinking energy into him. I would much rather play servant of the conduit instead, shaving a thing here and there to up the curve. Something like that :
If I had to modify the SB I'll put at least 2 natural state and 1 release the gremlins. I'll also add 2 blossoming defense. It's good against removal, and especially good against Unlicensed if it saves you 3 life.
Am I completely wrong in switching cubs for servants ?
Still, I think 20 lands is a bit dangerous, 21 seems safer to me.
Trust me, you want 20 lands with Attune with Aether. Just make sure you have enough green sources for a turn 1 Attune. I run three colors and almost never have any issues with mana.
Then there is the longtusk cub issue. Without blossoming defense I really don't like sinking energy into him. I would much rather play servant of the conduit instead
I agree. Longtusk Cub has a high ceiling but requires mana to be efficient and is hopeless when you have none. It can make combat difficult for your opponent, so it has that going for it. Servant of the Conduit is working well for me in my list, but I have more four drops.
I like the list but I'm still not overly keen on Rishkar, Peema Renegade in the list. It was just always so subpar for me unless you got the nut draw. I think it would also be better if you had a bunch of G spells, like Blossoming Defense, which you're not running. It requires you to have enough two drops (~12) to make it relevant which for me is risky with Fatal Push around - although I suppose Scrapheap Scrounger is resilient. Honestly though I'd rather just have another Tireless Tracker.
Still, I think 20 lands is a bit dangerous, 21 seems safer to me. Then there is the longtusk cub issue. Without blossoming defense I really don't like sinking energy into him. I would much rather play servant of the conduit instead, shaving a thing here and there to up the curve.
I mean, it depends. I've found Servant of the Conduit to be really subpar this season -- although I tend to play greedy mana bases. Playing a 4 drop on turn 3 doesn't really make up for the tempo loss of playing a bad 2 drop. Longtusk Cub can sometimes shield himself from Shock -- which Servant can never do on the draw. I'd rather play 1-4 on curve and then try to hop the curve with Rishkar, Peema Renegade from 4-5.
Notably, Juza's list shields itself really well from Shock. Rishkar and Brawler are the only obvious targets. The list, like other Vehicles lists, is a Heart of Kiran list with a bunch of recursive threats like Rampager and Scrounger to crew.
________________________
I concur that 21 lands is right. I'd rather have a more consistent curve and flood than have an inconsistent curve.
Juza said in the tech that he only played one Rishkar because he was expecting more control. I'm on board with this. If your meta is full of Jeskai and UB, then more Trackers makes sense. If not, then I'd play the 2nd Rishkar since he's one of the best ways to push your board advantage. Tracker is just too mana intensive to beat a fast deck like Vehicles.
Still, I think 20 lands is a bit dangerous, 21 seems safer to me. Then there is the longtusk cub issue. Without blossoming defense I really don't like sinking energy into him. I would much rather play servant of the conduit instead, shaving a thing here and there to up the curve.
I mean, it depends. I've found Servant of the Conduit to be really subpar this season -- although I tend to play greedy mana bases. Playing a 4 drop on turn 3 doesn't really make up for the tempo loss of playing a bad 2 drop. Longtusk Cub can sometimes shield himself from Shock -- which Servant can never do on the draw. I'd rather play 1-4 on curve and then try to hop the curve with Rishkar, Peema Renegade from 4-5.
Notably, Juza's list shields itself really well from Shock. Rishkar and Brawler are the only obvious targets. The list, like other Vehicles lists, is a Heart of Kiran list with a bunch of recursive threats like Rampager and Scrounger to crew.
________________________
I concur that 21 lands is right. I'd rather have a more consistent curve and flood than have an inconsistent curve.
Juza said in the tech that he only played one Rishkar because he was expecting more control. I'm on board with this. If your meta is full of Jeskai and UB, then more Trackers makes sense. If not, then I'd play the 2nd Rishkar since he's one of the best ways to push your board advantage. Tracker is just too mana intensive to beat a fast deck like Vehicles.
I agree on most of your points here. Maybe just going for the cub as a threatening 2 drop is better. I'll try some more.
I just don't agree on Natural state. It allows you to kill the most threatening card in the format (Heart of Kiran) without loosing tempo, it's very important. There is a case to be made trying to exile scrapheap but the real threats in mardu vehicules are the vehicules. Cubs and rampager can easily block the scrounger. Also it can hit stasis snare and quarantine fields that are still played in a Tier 2 deck GW tokens.
I just don't agree on Natural state. It allows you to kill the most threatening card in the format (Heart of Kiran) without loosing tempo, it's very important. There is a case to be made trying to exile scrapheap but the real threats in mardu vehicules are the vehicules. Cubs and rampager can easily block the scrounger. Also it can hit stasis snare and quarantine fields that are still played in a Tier 2 deck GW tokens.
Flow and Obsolescence lets you hit things other than Heart -- thus making it more flexible.
Stasis Snare and Quarantine Field are sort of irrelevant. Both are expensive and trade down on mana in most cases.
Against Vehicles, a turn 5 Release for x=2 basically is lights out if you hit more than one vehicle. I think a removal spell that scales is where I want to be vs. the deck.
Still working on straight R/G here. I think this deck can beat some of the toughest matchups out there like the cat combo, b/g counters and g/w tokens. B/U control has been my toughest matchup so far.
2 collective defiance in the mainboard. This card is crazy good against planeswalkers which have been a problem for me. It's also some really good defense against control players. Making them discard their hand, especially after they've played an anticipate can tip the card advantage in our favor.
I'm running 22 lands which is a lot it seems for most deck lists here. I find the deck really wants to hit all of it's land drops on curve and untapped. 20 lands just leads to too many mulligans. Down to only 1 Servant of the Conduit because the lands can support the deck just fine, despite playing 2 chandra and 3 collective defiance all together. Anyone have thoughts on the land base? I'm considering cutting a land, but as you'll see the mana curve jumps up a bit when sideboarding.
My final question is, should I put in a Heart of Kiran in there somewhere? I've been hesitant with vehicles as they end up sitting around like an abandoned car in a redneck's yard vs. control. When decks can one for one our creatures with removal and keep it up all game long, running vehicles mb seems like a bad idea.
Still working on straight R/G here. I think this deck can beat some of the toughest matchups out there like the cat combo, b/g counters and g/w tokens. B/U control has been my toughest matchup so far.
2 collective defiance in the mainboard. This card is crazy good against planeswalkers which have been a problem for me. It's also some really good defense against control players. Making them discard their hand, especially after they've played an anticipate can tip the card advantage in our favor.
I'm running 22 lands which is a lot it seems for most deck lists here. I find the deck really wants to hit all of it's land drops on curve and untapped. 20 lands just leads to too many mulligans. Down to only 1 Servant of the Conduit because the lands can support the deck just fine, despite playing 2 chandra and 3 collective defiance all together. Anyone have thoughts on the land base? I'm considering cutting a land, but as you'll see the mana curve jumps up a bit when sideboarding.
My final question is, should I put in a Heart of Kiran in there somewhere? I've been hesitant with vehicles as they end up sitting around like an abandoned car in a redneck's yard vs. control. When decks can one for one our creatures with removal and keep it up all game long, running vehicles mb seems like a bad idea.
Pro tour was this week-end with a huge amount of Mardu vehicules. With only 4 harnessed lightning MB and literally nothing in your MB to deal with Heart of Kiran you just fold to it. Not a good place to be if your meta follow the trend.
I'll have to check. My card shop doesn't always have the best net decks out there. I do have 2 collective Defiance in the mainboard which can kill Heart of Kiran. Also Chandra can kill heart. What other cards to people put in the mainboard to deal with heart? Do you mean artifact destruction or something?
I'll have to check. My card shop doesn't always have the best net decks out there. I do have 2 collective Defiance in the mainboard which can kill Heart of Kiran. Also Chandra can kill heart. What other cards to people put in the mainboard to deal with heart? Do you mean artifact destruction or something?
ETA: On a separate note, I think the pummeler deck is still viable. I tried throwing a version together and went 5-0 in an online casual league, playing against three Winding Constrictor decks on the way through. They resolved five walking ballistas (ballistae?) in total, so I wasn't just dodging the card.
Round 1: UB Control (2-1)
The usual grind. In one game he drew more answers than I had creatures, in the other two he didn't. I did get to Release the Gremlins on a Torrential Gearhulk to seal up game three, which was nice (my sideboard theory was that his victory depended on turning the corner with a gearhulk at some point).
Round 2: Jund Constrictor (2-0)
He got a ballista in each game. In game two I get three pummelers and hulk smash him to death once he runs out of removal.
Round 3: BW Tokens (2-0)
Opponent's deck had some sweet stuff going on. Glint Sleeve Siphoner, Sram's Expertise (into Servo Expedition), Westvale Abbey... he can't keep up with Brawler + Hydra beats.
Round 4: GB Snake (2-1)
He gets one ballista in the three games. I lose game two as he roadblocks my hydras with quagmires and then turns the corner with mindwrack and gearhulk. Game one I get the turn four pummeler kill after he fatal pushes my Servant with a Pummeler on the board. Game three I blitz him out with double brawlers.
Round 5: GB Snake (2-1)
He gets ballista twice in the three games. He wins one game where I flood out a bit, I win the next two on the back of early Brawler beats. Game two a Skysovereign swoops in for the finish, game three it's a hydra.
Overall, I find the ballista to be a good card but not one that totally shuts us down. It usually trades one for one with pummeler and is iffy against our other creatures.
Voltaic Brawler feels a lot stronger with copter and reflector mage out of the format. I might revise this opinion once I run into some Heart of Kiran decks.
Skysovereign was awesome every time I boarded it in. Definitely warrants main deck consideration.
Invigorated Rampage is the bee's knees. Instant speed pump on pummeler is always nice and the other mode is clutch when you're on the normal beatdown plan. I sideboarded out Larger than Life before the rampage and felt good about it.
Now that Marvel is basically out of the format the blue splash feels unnecessary. I think the place to be with this deck is a black splash that fuses some of Juza's tech (Scrounger, Skysovereign, Push) into the pummeler shell.
@jacobk So basically, how many decks that you've played were similar to PT/netdecks? I imagine GB snake and Jund constrictor (maybe UB control) were much alike those decks. I'm just really trying to figure out how to balance the Pummeler variant of this deck. I know that my lgs will be using the netdecks from PT, thus I'm trying to gear up against the blasted Mardu Vehicles decks, which make blue seem desireable since ceremonious rejection is a thing. Also, considering the fact that creatures are a bit of a threat nowadays (I'm looking at the 'snek', and the Heart of Kiran), wouldn't it be smarter just to up the number of Harnessed Lightning?
UB Control was fairly net-deckish, although not one that was successful on the PT. This is an archetype that has given me trouble in the past and I think scrounger would help a lot against them.
The BW tokens deck was a brew. I don't think the Jund constrictor deck was a net deck but it was close to Juza's deck (minus some vehicles plus constrictor/ballista).
The GB Constrictor lists were net decks. One thing to note is that while they had a lot of snakes and a lot of ballistas, I never ran into the magical christmas land draw of snake->rishkar->mindwrack->gearhulk. Of course even when that kind of thing happens you can still sometimes mise out the game with pummeler.
I like Fatal Push over Ceremonious Rejection because it's much easier to keep up one black before they attack than it is to keep up one blue before they cast a spell. I'm also not a big fan of hitting myself with a Sphere of Resistance as they build up to a Gideon. Berthoud's list only runs ten colorless spells so it's quite possible they curve out without even giving you a target (exemplar/scrapheap/pia/gideon or whatever).
Regarding Harnessed Lightning, my plan on game one is to win by outclassing my opponent's creatures or by mega-Pummeler. For either plan the idea is to apply as much pressure as possible and use the pump spells to close it out. Shock is in there for a little protection against copy cat. I look to play a more interactive game post board. I was bigger on Harnessed Lightning out of the board when everybody had copters but now I think Fatal Push is a lot better. If you don't add the black splash then I could definitely see some number of lightnings out of the board being correct.
Natural State hitting Stasis Snare and Quarantine Field have always been one the reasons I play it over something that hits strictly Artifacts. I do think there is some merit in making room for strict artifact hate though with Release The Gremlins and Natural Obsolescence. I think I'm set on getting the black splash in after playtesting.
I've been doing some more testing with my Naya build and did end up taking the advice on removing Aetherstorm Roc for Heart of Kiran. After giving it some thought, it's a great fit with the planeswalkers I play and any loss in synergy was insignificant. I also dropped a land for another Voltaic Brawler because of constant flooding. Plus he's soooo good.
Scrapheap Scrounger is the strictly for the control match, UB is almost and auto loss for me. I've changed the SB a lot since the last time I tested against a control deck and I feel like I've made solid progress with my issues vs this deck type. While I don't play any black lands, Aether Hub and Servant of the Conduit should be just enough to bring them back a few times.
I'm planning to fit in Scrounger as well. I think shaving some larger than life and some servants could work. One thing that worries me in my experimenting so far is that it seems a little soft to copycat combo. I'm not sure there's much for that other than keeping shock in the sideboard.
I've been doing some more testing with my Naya build and did end up taking the advice on removing Aetherstorm Roc for Heart of Kiran. After giving it some thought, it's a great fit with the planeswalkers I play and any loss in synergy was insignificant. I also dropped a land for another Voltaic Brawler because of constant flooding. Plus he's soooo good.
Scrapheap Scrounger is the strictly for the control match, UB is almost and auto loss for me. I've changed the SB a lot since the last time I tested against a control deck and I feel like I've made solid progress with my issues vs this deck type. While I don't play any black lands, Aether Hub and Servant of the Conduit should be just enough to bring them back a few times.
So if you have problem against pure control I suggest Lathnu hellion in the SB instead of scrapheap. The scrapheap is great but your mana base won't allow you to realistically have black mana on time. To give you an example, when I was splashing blue in my GR energy build I would side in an island (for Attune with aether) and I would already have 4 GU fastland + the 4 aether hub. You can't count on the servant of the conduit since they'll probably be dead.
Lathnu Hellion does the job well
Quarantine field is a great card but it's 6 mana for it to be efficient. It does not fit the same role as release the gremlins. Release is for the mardu vehicules matchup where it can be a huge swing.
My loss was to W/G humans, 2:0. He went first game 1 and had tempo on me. Back to back Heron's Grace Champion gave him a brutal comeback game 2.
Only other deck of note was an interesting 2 or 3 color artifact deck. It ran Hope of Girapur, Tezzeret's Touch, Heart of Kiran and Fleetwheel Cruiser. Touch onto Heart of Kiran is brutal. I did miss having artifact destruction against this match up. I barely won one game off of 2 Incendiary Flow back to back. It was much nicer to play Flow mb instead of Blossoming Defense.
I love the deck. I feel R/G is working out well enough for me right now that an extra color seems unnecessary. I'm considering trading out a land or an Attune with Aether for a Servant of the Conduit. Extra mana does seem to show up more often than not. Not sure if going down a land will lead to too many mulligans however.
i'm really having a hard time against UB control, even if i'm on the play. the 1-3 drops just dies to removal and sweeps and when the game gets to turn 5 or so, it's basically game over for us, especially when we only have a creature or 2. chandra, hydra and scrapheaps are nice against them but i feel it's still not enough since post-board they have kalitas, yaheeni and flaying tendrils. any tips and tricks?
Nocturnal God of Chaos of The Æsir Probably the most random person you will ever meet. Trust me on this one. Well, I'm off to poop.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted
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GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Google car has haste and is more of a 5 mana potential recurring burn spell. That is how I see it anyway and trample is the big reason to play it. I have been using a pair for awhile in my G/R variants with great success. It replaced lathnu hellions in my deck.
Juza's deck is very similar to one I am tuning up so nice to see him in the top 8 to break up the mardu frenzy. I hope he wins. Definitely want to see what he sideboards and how. Since I don't own hearts I am using a few aethersphere harvesters.
Here's my list:
4 Servant of the Conduit
3 Voltaic Brawler
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Aetherstorm Roc
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
2 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
4 Attune with Aether
3 Stasis Snare
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Aether Hub
1 Mountain
5 Plains
6 Forest
1 Fortified Village
2 Cinder Glade
1 Needle Spires
2 Archangel Avacyn
1 Linvala, the Preserver
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Natural Obsolescence
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Fumigate
2 Declaration in Stone
The mana base looks a bit odd but it's balanced and works great. I'm currently thinking about/trying to shove, 2x Aethersphere Harvester or 2x Heart of Kiran in to the list.
I'll start with Greenbelt Rampager. Great turn one play, I can usually drop it turn two after Attune with Aether or Aether Hub if I played it turn one. It's also has some great interaction with Aetherstorm Roc.
Second card is Aetherstorm Roc, I was really surprised by this card. There's a lack of solid, low cost, fliers in white and while it doesn't really stand toe to toe with cards like Mindwrack Demon, it's tap ability can easily push damage through it or ground blockers. Also, it has great synergy with Nahiri, the Harbinger and can work as a energy generation engine with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Greenbelt Rampager and Sigarda, Heron's Grace.
Next is Thalia, Heretic Cathar. Great synergy with Nahiri, the Harbinger and is a giant pain for some creature decks to deal with, while also punishing greedy mana bases. It's also huge vs a flashed in Torrential Gearhulk, First Strike is also nothing to scoff at.
Harnessed Lightning can get huge, it can easily take down most creatures.
Soooo many angels! For the most part they're just big evasive creatures.
Sigarda, Heron's Grace gives fantastic reach with her tokens and can provide tons of energy withAetherstorm Roc and can be fueled by dumping extra lands and unused cards to Nahiri, the Harbinger's +2. Hexproof is randomly good as the deck plays a fair number of Humans and Angels. Not to mention her 4/5 body is great for defending and attacking and she's a tough nut to crack when she comes down turn four via Servant of the Conduit.
Gisela, the Broken Blade and Bruna, the Fading Light are there to round out big evasive threats. Gisela, the Broken Blade demands an answer right away and rarely lives past the turn she's played, but when she can connect it starts to get really bad for your opponent. Her death isn't the worse thing in the world because it threatens an imminent Meld with Bruna, the Fading Light. Bruna, just has a fat butt. She doesn't rely on having Gisela, the Broken Blade in the grave or on the battlefield and is just as happy to toss Sigarda, Heron's Grace back onto the field. She's great for the long game because she's super hard to attack through.
Archangel Avacyn, while good vs a lot of decks, is on the edge. She comes in when I want to go bigger with my creatures. I honestly might just play her because I just bought 2...
Linvala, the Preserver Comes in for aggro and GB decks.
Authority of the Consuls Comes in for Saheeli Rai combo and is great vs the token decks played at my FNM.
Natural Obsolescence obligatory artifact and enchantment removal.
Blossoming Defense an effort to help my UB control match, it's by far my worse match up. I'm not really sure what else to add to be honest. Lucky for me nobody seems to play it at my LGS.
Fumigate and Declaration in Stone I lumped them together because they almost always come in together, usually vs creature decks that have better creatures than me.
I'll preface this by saying I've only played in one FNM. I just started getting back into the game and have only been to two so far. I played RW Vehicles in the first one.
Round 1:
He played some Mono U Thing in the Ice list. He obviously wasn't ready for a deck like mine as I just destroyed him 2-0.
Round 2:
He played U/B Tezzeret with a bunch of vehicles. It went 3 games with turns and I almost lost but got there on turn 3. I saw none of my boarded cards wither game. Nahiri was the all star by a long shot. 2-1
Round 3:
Ahhhh BG, Ive played this deck a few times and it's very draw dependent. I drew perfect game one and crushed me, I drew perfect on game 2 and crushed him. Game 3 we both had poor muls to 6 and I ended the game with 11 lands drawn and a bunch of Servant of the Conduit and Attune with Aether draws and a loss. 1-2
Round 4:
WB Tokens with those two guys that can sac creatures to become indestructible. I got game one, he got game 2. Game 3 felt like it took forever I was flooded hard and ended the game drawing 13 lands. However a timely Fumigate top deck gave be the breathing room I needed in health and board position and I was able to turn it around for a win with Sigarda.
Ended 3-1 with a 5th (out 20ish) place finish.
I disagree. I think it's a very constructed playable card and underrated. Looking at cards vs only Heart and Harvester is a very linear way of thinking. At least I can only assume that's what you're talking about, as you gave no real explanation besides what amounts to, card bad.
Yes I was referring to Heart of Kiran and Aethersphere Harvester. There was this big tournament full of pro players, just this week end, called the Pro Tour and none of them pros thought that the Roc was good enough. You can play the Roc as much as you want. He's just gonna look ridiculous facing Heart, Aethersphere and Mindwrack demon that's all.
On a more serious note I tested some games with the Juza list and as some of you guys said already, the black splash for Unlicensed and scrapheap is great. Mana is less consistent but those 3 extra damages are bonkers, and the recursion of scrapheap against control, UR dynamo and the like just wins you game.
Still, I think 20 lands is a bit dangerous, 21 seems safer to me. Then there is the longtusk cub issue. Without blossoming defense I really don't like sinking energy into him. I would much rather play servant of the conduit instead, shaving a thing here and there to up the curve. Something like that :
4x Greenbelt Rampager
4x Servant of the conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Scrapheap Scrounger
1x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Verdurous gearhulk
1x Aethersphere Harvester
1x Fleetwheel Cruiser
2x Heart of Kiran
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Removals/sorceries
2x Harnessed Lightning
2x Shock
4x Unlicensed Disintegration
4x Attune with aether
4x Aether Hub
4x Attune with Aether
4x Blooming Marsh
5x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Swamp
4x Game Trail
1x Cinder Glade
If I had to modify the SB I'll put at least 2 natural state and 1 release the gremlins. I'll also add 2 blossoming defense. It's good against removal, and especially good against Unlicensed if it saves you 3 life.
Am I completely wrong in switching cubs for servants ?
Trust me, you want 20 lands with Attune with Aether. Just make sure you have enough green sources for a turn 1 Attune. I run three colors and almost never have any issues with mana.
I agree. Longtusk Cub has a high ceiling but requires mana to be efficient and is hopeless when you have none. It can make combat difficult for your opponent, so it has that going for it. Servant of the Conduit is working well for me in my list, but I have more four drops.
I like the list but I'm still not overly keen on Rishkar, Peema Renegade in the list. It was just always so subpar for me unless you got the nut draw. I think it would also be better if you had a bunch of G spells, like Blossoming Defense, which you're not running. It requires you to have enough two drops (~12) to make it relevant which for me is risky with Fatal Push around - although I suppose Scrapheap Scrounger is resilient. Honestly though I'd rather just have another Tireless Tracker.
As a one of he is just bad against control, you switch him game 2 and 3 for a tracker.
I mean, it depends. I've found Servant of the Conduit to be really subpar this season -- although I tend to play greedy mana bases. Playing a 4 drop on turn 3 doesn't really make up for the tempo loss of playing a bad 2 drop. Longtusk Cub can sometimes shield himself from Shock -- which Servant can never do on the draw. I'd rather play 1-4 on curve and then try to hop the curve with Rishkar, Peema Renegade from 4-5.
Notably, Juza's list shields itself really well from Shock. Rishkar and Brawler are the only obvious targets. The list, like other Vehicles lists, is a Heart of Kiran list with a bunch of recursive threats like Rampager and Scrounger to crew.
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I concur that 21 lands is right. I'd rather have a more consistent curve and flood than have an inconsistent curve.
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If you're teching against Vehicles, I cannot recommend Release the Gremlins and some assortment of Incendiary Flow or Natural Obsolescence enough. I don't like Natural State -- an extra mana gets you considerably more flexibility.
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Juza said in the tech that he only played one Rishkar because he was expecting more control. I'm on board with this. If your meta is full of Jeskai and UB, then more Trackers makes sense. If not, then I'd play the 2nd Rishkar since he's one of the best ways to push your board advantage. Tracker is just too mana intensive to beat a fast deck like Vehicles.
I agree on most of your points here. Maybe just going for the cub as a threatening 2 drop is better. I'll try some more.
I just don't agree on Natural state. It allows you to kill the most threatening card in the format (Heart of Kiran) without loosing tempo, it's very important. There is a case to be made trying to exile scrapheap but the real threats in mardu vehicules are the vehicules. Cubs and rampager can easily block the scrounger. Also it can hit stasis snare and quarantine fields that are still played in a Tier 2 deck GW tokens.
A mix of Natural state and
Juza's list runs Fatal Push in the SB.
Natural State is redundant in that sense.
Flow and Obsolescence lets you hit things other than Heart -- thus making it more flexible.
Stasis Snare and Quarantine Field are sort of irrelevant. Both are expensive and trade down on mana in most cases.
Against Vehicles, a turn 5 Release for x=2 basically is lights out if you hit more than one vehicle. I think a removal spell that scales is where I want to be vs. the deck.
2 collective defiance in the mainboard. This card is crazy good against planeswalkers which have been a problem for me. It's also some really good defense against control players. Making them discard their hand, especially after they've played an anticipate can tip the card advantage in our favor.
I'm running 22 lands which is a lot it seems for most deck lists here. I find the deck really wants to hit all of it's land drops on curve and untapped. 20 lands just leads to too many mulligans. Down to only 1 Servant of the Conduit because the lands can support the deck just fine, despite playing 2 chandra and 3 collective defiance all together. Anyone have thoughts on the land base? I'm considering cutting a land, but as you'll see the mana curve jumps up a bit when sideboarding.
My final question is, should I put in a Heart of Kiran in there somewhere? I've been hesitant with vehicles as they end up sitting around like an abandoned car in a redneck's yard vs. control. When decks can one for one our creatures with removal and keep it up all game long, running vehicles mb seems like a bad idea.
R/G midrange list
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
1x Servant of the Conduit
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Blossoming Defense
2x Collective Defiance
1x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
1x Aether Hub
8x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Shock
2x Blossoming Defense
2x Incendiary Flow
1x Collective Defiance
2x Aethersphere Harvester
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Tireless Tracker
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
1x Servant of the Conduit
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
3x Collective Defiance
4x Shock
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
1x Aether Hub
8x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
1x Servant of the Conduit
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
2x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Attune with Aether
4x Blossoming Defense
3x Collective Defiance
3x Cinder glade
1x Aether Hub
8x Forest
6x Mountain
Pro tour was this week-end with a huge amount of Mardu vehicules. With only 4 harnessed lightning MB and literally nothing in your MB to deal with Heart of Kiran you just fold to it. Not a good place to be if your meta follow the trend.
This is where Juza's black splash really shines with Unlicensed Disintegration and Fatal Push. Scrapheap Scrounger is also a nice resilient threat against control that can crew both Heart and Skysovereign.
ETA: On a separate note, I think the pummeler deck is still viable. I tried throwing a version together and went 5-0 in an online casual league, playing against three Winding Constrictor decks on the way through. They resolved five walking ballistas (ballistae?) in total, so I wasn't just dodging the card.
4 Game Trail
10 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Shock
4 Attune with Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Invigorated Rampage
4 Larger than Life
2 Uncaged Fury
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
1 Island
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Negate
2 Shock
1 Harnessed Lightning
1 Natural State
3 Release the Gremlins
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Round 1: UB Control (2-1)
The usual grind. In one game he drew more answers than I had creatures, in the other two he didn't. I did get to Release the Gremlins on a Torrential Gearhulk to seal up game three, which was nice (my sideboard theory was that his victory depended on turning the corner with a gearhulk at some point).
Round 2: Jund Constrictor (2-0)
He got a ballista in each game. In game two I get three pummelers and hulk smash him to death once he runs out of removal.
Round 3: BW Tokens (2-0)
Opponent's deck had some sweet stuff going on. Glint Sleeve Siphoner, Sram's Expertise (into Servo Expedition), Westvale Abbey... he can't keep up with Brawler + Hydra beats.
Round 4: GB Snake (2-1)
He gets one ballista in the three games. I lose game two as he roadblocks my hydras with quagmires and then turns the corner with mindwrack and gearhulk. Game one I get the turn four pummeler kill after he fatal pushes my Servant with a Pummeler on the board. Game three I blitz him out with double brawlers.
Round 5: GB Snake (2-1)
He gets ballista twice in the three games. He wins one game where I flood out a bit, I win the next two on the back of early Brawler beats. Game two a Skysovereign swoops in for the finish, game three it's a hydra.
Overall, I find the ballista to be a good card but not one that totally shuts us down. It usually trades one for one with pummeler and is iffy against our other creatures.
Voltaic Brawler feels a lot stronger with copter and reflector mage out of the format. I might revise this opinion once I run into some Heart of Kiran decks.
Skysovereign was awesome every time I boarded it in. Definitely warrants main deck consideration.
Invigorated Rampage is the bee's knees. Instant speed pump on pummeler is always nice and the other mode is clutch when you're on the normal beatdown plan. I sideboarded out Larger than Life before the rampage and felt good about it.
Now that Marvel is basically out of the format the blue splash feels unnecessary. I think the place to be with this deck is a black splash that fuses some of Juza's tech (Scrounger, Skysovereign, Push) into the pummeler shell.
UB Control was fairly net-deckish, although not one that was successful on the PT. This is an archetype that has given me trouble in the past and I think scrounger would help a lot against them.
The BW tokens deck was a brew. I don't think the Jund constrictor deck was a net deck but it was close to Juza's deck (minus some vehicles plus constrictor/ballista).
The GB Constrictor lists were net decks. One thing to note is that while they had a lot of snakes and a lot of ballistas, I never ran into the magical christmas land draw of snake->rishkar->mindwrack->gearhulk. Of course even when that kind of thing happens you can still sometimes mise out the game with pummeler.
I like Fatal Push over Ceremonious Rejection because it's much easier to keep up one black before they attack than it is to keep up one blue before they cast a spell. I'm also not a big fan of hitting myself with a Sphere of Resistance as they build up to a Gideon. Berthoud's list only runs ten colorless spells so it's quite possible they curve out without even giving you a target (exemplar/scrapheap/pia/gideon or whatever).
Regarding Harnessed Lightning, my plan on game one is to win by outclassing my opponent's creatures or by mega-Pummeler. For either plan the idea is to apply as much pressure as possible and use the pump spells to close it out. Shock is in there for a little protection against copy cat. I look to play a more interactive game post board. I was bigger on Harnessed Lightning out of the board when everybody had copters but now I think Fatal Push is a lot better. If you don't add the black splash then I could definitely see some number of lightnings out of the board being correct.
Updated list:
2 Heart of Kiran
Creatues
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
2 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
Spells
4 Attune with Aether
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Stasis Snare
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Aether Hub
1 Mountain
5 Plains
6 Forest
1 Fortified Village
2 Cinder Glade
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Archangel Avacyn
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Stasis Snare
2 Natural State
2 Fumigate
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Release the Gremlins
I'm considering Quarantine Field instead of Release the Gremlins to take care of walkers. Each has its merits and down falls. The one of Tireless Tracker is in flux between itself, Aethersphere Harvester, another Heart of Kiran, or another planeswalker (I'm testing a few).
Scrapheap Scrounger is the strictly for the control match, UB is almost and auto loss for me. I've changed the SB a lot since the last time I tested against a control deck and I feel like I've made solid progress with my issues vs this deck type. While I don't play any black lands, Aether Hub and Servant of the Conduit should be just enough to bring them back a few times.
So if you have problem against pure control I suggest Lathnu hellion in the SB instead of scrapheap. The scrapheap is great but your mana base won't allow you to realistically have black mana on time. To give you an example, when I was splashing blue in my GR energy build I would side in an island (for Attune with aether) and I would already have 4 GU fastland + the 4 aether hub. You can't count on the servant of the conduit since they'll probably be dead.
Lathnu Hellion does the job well
Quarantine field is a great card but it's 6 mana for it to be efficient. It does not fit the same role as release the gremlins. Release is for the mardu vehicules matchup where it can be a huge swing.
4x Voltiac Brawler
4x Longtusk Cub
1x Narnam Renegade
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Bristling Hydra
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
1x Heart of Kiran
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Incendiary Flow
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Game Trail
3x Cinder glade
1x Aether Hub
8x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Shock
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Collective Defiance
2x Aethersphere Harvester
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Verdurous Gearhulk
My loss was to W/G humans, 2:0. He went first game 1 and had tempo on me. Back to back Heron's Grace Champion gave him a brutal comeback game 2.
Only other deck of note was an interesting 2 or 3 color artifact deck. It ran Hope of Girapur, Tezzeret's Touch, Heart of Kiran and Fleetwheel Cruiser. Touch onto Heart of Kiran is brutal. I did miss having artifact destruction against this match up. I barely won one game off of 2 Incendiary Flow back to back. It was much nicer to play Flow mb instead of Blossoming Defense.
I love the deck. I feel R/G is working out well enough for me right now that an extra color seems unnecessary. I'm considering trading out a land or an Attune with Aether for a Servant of the Conduit. Extra mana does seem to show up more often than not. Not sure if going down a land will lead to too many mulligans however.
I didn't really want to play Aethersphere Harvester at all. I might replace this with release the Gremlins.
4 Longtusk Cub
2 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Walking Ballista
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Greenbelt Rampager
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Fatal Push
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Cinder Glade
2 Mountain
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Attune with Aether
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Fatal Push
3 Appetite for the Unnatural
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Transgress the Mind
A little toying around I've been doing.
Oh, my username is the same on Xbox and Cockatrice, add me!
"For some of us, easier Magic is good Magic, but if you are one of those 'intelligent types,' feel free to play your Hive Mind mirrors. The rest of us are here for the fireworks." - Kent Ketter
Playing in Type 2...BGRJundHearted