No love for Woodweaver's Puzzleknot? I think it's better than most people are giving it credit for. Energy seems to be really important in this deck, and the artifact provides quite a lot of it. It also gives a lot of health, which can help in potential burn match-ups and races. Not to mention the direct synergy it has with Bristling Hydra (i.e., sac for 3, counter target spell that targets the Hydra).
Indeed, for this reason and because of Harnessed Lightning feeling very powerful in this deck, I see little reason not to run the Hydra. It allows such spells to double up as removal and as a (albeit very situational) counterspell.
This is my current list (not fantastically refined, more "all in" on the energy plan).
I feel like the deck maybe wants more burn however to help close out matches, so perhaps I could/should cut Woodweaver's Puzzleknot for something like Incendiary Flow. Am also considering cutting Servant of the Conduit and two Verdurous Gearhulk for some additional burn. I'm reluctant to cut the Puzzleknot for now because it offers something different and, well, I just want to give it a go.
I wrote off Empyreal Voyager at first but it has two forms of evasion and as long as Verdurous Gearhulk is overperforming, the Voyager makes a fine target for permanent buffs
I wrote off Empyreal Voyager at first but it has two forms of evasion and as long as Verdurous Gearhulk is overperforming, the Voyager makes a fine target for permanent buffs
Looks good. Have you had problems with spot removal decks?
From what I saw on Hoogland's stream Larger than Life wasn't all that great. I think he or one of his friends suggested moving it to the sideboard to better deal with planeswalkers, which is a good strategy, but in the mainboard it's probably better off replaced with Built to Smash, Giant Spectacle, or another creature/removal spell
How is this deck testing? I was just about to put up a Primer for this sometime this week!
It's fine. There are some real stinkers that people are still playing with. Most energy cards are not constructed playable -- it just takes time to figure out which ones are.
We haven't really seen a peep from Gruul midrange cards since Reflector Mage was printed so who even knows which ones are most powerful at their respective curves right now? Compare this to white and everyone will ask if a white 4cmc permanent is better than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. What should the energy cards be supplemented with? That's what I think we're all trying to grasp right now alongside which energy cards are most powerful.
I think the framework is fundamentally strong but this deck might take a back seat to Mono-Red Copter Aggro week one -- however it may come back around weeks 2 and 3 as a resilient aggro deck made to beat the midrange/control decks.
If you're trying to tune your energy aggro deck and you don't have a legitimate plan for smugglers copter then you're going to have problems. That card is probably going to be one of the most played rares in the set.
So far I've seen it in everything from mono 1 drops aggro to a jace replacement in the old sultan dredge deck and it seems pretty good everywhere
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big thanks to DarkNightCavalier from heroes of the planes studios for the sig!
I think a lot of the problem with people's lists is they are paying too much attention to the name we have collectively given the deck. "Energy Aggro". We need to focus less on the energy portion of the deck, and more on the aggro portion.
For me, this deck begs to be a faster fires of yavimaya deck. Focus on cards that stay ahead of curve. My list, is built around a turn 4-5 win. That means I need heavy hitters with trample and haste. Wizards has given us essentially 3 different ball lightning type cards to use, so we should be taking advantage of that. Here is my list.
it is risky but also rewarding when ahead, as it really puts the pressure on. when behind... well, just discard it to Collective Defiance.
it's also only one of the few good cards we have against many planeswalkers since we're going to lose Exquisite Firecraft. actually, now that i thought about it, does Red or Green have other answers to PWs aside from the upcoming Flame Lash?
--edit--
Devour in Flames fits the bill, although it's sorcery speed and requires a land to be returned to hand. return Aether Hub, maybe?
These represent the divergence between a straight aggressive plan or going a little bigger into Stompy territory. Mixing the two deckbuilding philosophies results in something unfocused and schizophrenic. An extreme example would be mixing things like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot and Scythe Leopard. Putting things that work directly against one another's game plan like that is going to lead to a bad time. On the whole I would say the Stompy deck is a better choice. The 1 drops just don't have enough power to support true aggro and Atarka's Command is a thing of the past.
Yeah, I don't see any reason to run Goldnight Castigator when Fleetwheel Cruiser is available. I really feel like this deck needs Bomat Courier. It's an aggressive one drop that refills your hand after you dump it on board. Sure, it's a bad topdeck late game, but so is most of this deck. At least this guy cycles for 1R.
bomat courier allows us to survive past turn 4-5 as well which some new cards to cast. Definitely a 4 of, plus its one of the best targets for built to smash when you run into an opposing turn 2 sylvan advocate
Splashing U doesn't make the mana terrible. Drawing too many or too few lands is the typical issue I find.
I started out hot on Longtusk Cub but I've been swearing off it. It's great when you have a t1 Attune with Aether into t2 Longtusk Cub on the play. Awful anywhere else. The deck is energy thirsty and having a threat that doesn't produce any when you cast it can be an issue.
The Revolutionary Rebuff/Nebelgast Herald package is quite good against the format. You tap copters when they move to combat, you tap Ally tokens so your Hellions can kill Gideons. Notably, end stepping a Herald and untapping into a gearhulk is a whole lot of flying damage.
Rebuff snags everything not named a Gearhulk, vehicle, or the Temur Emerge enablers.
I don't love Sylvan Advocate this format, just because everything in this format is so big and fast, but with 24 lands and 4 Lay of the Land, maybe we just need cards that play well on defense and offense -- or rather -- attack passably and defend passably. Compare this with Longtusk Cub which is a card that is only great t2 on the play and terrible on the draw and after turn 3 and you've got a card that is average turns 2-5 and then turns into a house turns 6+.
Alternatively, I've considered Servant of the Conduit but we're so threat light as it is that I'm hesitant.
Anyway, updated list from a couple hours of testing.
I'm JUST getting back in standard and I figured this deck was safe to get into...so some choices are a bit blind to meta etc... so please critique. I figured Blossom defense MB just does too much in terms of being a counter spell to removal and winning trades, this can of course be a removal slot. In the 4cc slot I opted Hydra over Fleetwheel Cruiser, we'll see how tests fair.
SB choices, 3 Appetite for the Unreal since I expect gearhulks and artifacts to have more presence. Thinking this is the best art/enchant removal for what the meta might be. 4 Galvanic's to thwart aggro. Plummets to kill angels. Woodweaver's to get a lil health against aggro. Chandra/defiance to take out 4 def threats.
Also debating 22 land instead since we have so many 2 drops.
We're trying to utilize E producers from Kaladesh and ensure that our opponent dies quickly. Thus, RGx Energy Aggro!
Lets talk about this insanity.
1cmc:
2cmc:
3cmc:
4cmc:
5cmc:
6cmc+:
Land:
Mix up any number of this RG hodgepodge and make it your own!
Here are some basic RG Energy lists to think about:
4 aether hub
4 game trail
5 mountain
9 forest
1 hanweir battlements
creatures - 29
4 kessig prowler
4 longtusk cub
4 servant of the conduit
4 voltaic brawler
4 lathnu hellion
2 architect of the untamed
3 fleetwheel cruiser
4 verdurous gearhulk
4 harnessed lightning
4 attune with aether
4 blossoming defense
2 hijack
2 ornamental courage
1 mountain
2 chandra, torch of defiance
1 nissa, vital force
3 incendiary flow
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Lathnu Hellion
2 Bristling Hydra
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Arlinn Kord
//Instant
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Incendiary Flow
2 Blossoming Defense
//Sorcery
2 Nature's Way
4 Attune with Aether
2 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
4 Aether Hub
8 Forest
4 Mountain
You can also splash blue, black, white, or colorless -- with help from manlands and fastlands.
White:
Black:
Blue:
Colorless:
Lands:
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Lathnu Hellion
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Attune with Aether
4x Revolutionary Rebuff
2x Spirebluff Canal
2x Lumbering Falls
4x Cinder Glade
2x Evolving Wilds
2x Aether Hub
1x Island
3x Forest
4x Mountain
3x Fevered Visions
3x Incendiary Flow
2x Galvanic Bombardment
1x Savage Alliance
2x Clip Wings
2x Negate
2x Nissa, Vital Force
Share your list below!
4 Scythe Leopard
4 Kessig Prowler
2 Brazen Scourge
3 Bristling Hydra
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Voltaic Brawler
3 Fiery Temper
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Larger Than Life
4 Smuggler's Copter
LAND (21)
7 Forest
4 Mountain
3 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
3 Aether Hub
Indeed, for this reason and because of Harnessed Lightning feeling very powerful in this deck, I see little reason not to run the Hydra. It allows such spells to double up as removal and as a (albeit very situational) counterspell.
This is my current list (not fantastically refined, more "all in" on the energy plan).
4x Lathnu Hellion
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Arlinn Kord
4x Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
4x Aether Hub
4x Cinder Glade
7x Forest
4x Game Trail
5x Mountain
I feel like the deck maybe wants more burn however to help close out matches, so perhaps I could/should cut Woodweaver's Puzzleknot for something like Incendiary Flow. Am also considering cutting Servant of the Conduit and two Verdurous Gearhulk for some additional burn. I'm reluctant to cut the Puzzleknot for now because it offers something different and, well, I just want to give it a go.
Anyway, here's a list.
4x Aether Hub
3x Spirebluff Canal
4x Cinder Glade
3x Forest
3x Mountain
1x Island
2x Evolving Wilds
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Revolutionary Rebuff
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Lathnu Hellion
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Woodland Wanderer
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
2x Savage Alliance
4x Galvanic Bombardment
1x Negate
2x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Clip Wings
4x Fevered Visions
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
FRIENDS
2 Arlinn Kord
CREATURES
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Sylvan Advocate
4 Lathnu Hellion
3 Empyreal Voyager
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Incendiary Flow
2 Collective Defiance
LANDS
4 Aether Hub
4 Cinder Glade
3 Botanical Sanctum
3 Game Trail
2 Wandering Fumarole
5 Forest
5 Mountain
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Looks good. Have you had problems with spot removal decks?
From what I saw on Hoogland's stream Larger than Life wasn't all that great. I think he or one of his friends suggested moving it to the sideboard to better deal with planeswalkers, which is a good strategy, but in the mainboard it's probably better off replaced with Built to Smash, Giant Spectacle, or another creature/removal spell
It's fine. There are some real stinkers that people are still playing with. Most energy cards are not constructed playable -- it just takes time to figure out which ones are.
We haven't really seen a peep from Gruul midrange cards since Reflector Mage was printed so who even knows which ones are most powerful at their respective curves right now? Compare this to white and everyone will ask if a white 4cmc permanent is better than Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. What should the energy cards be supplemented with? That's what I think we're all trying to grasp right now alongside which energy cards are most powerful.
I think the framework is fundamentally strong but this deck might take a back seat to Mono-Red Copter Aggro week one -- however it may come back around weeks 2 and 3 as a resilient aggro deck made to beat the midrange/control decks.
So far I've seen it in everything from mono 1 drops aggro to a jace replacement in the old sultan dredge deck and it seems pretty good everywhere
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
4 Thriving Grubs (or Longtusk Cub)
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Geier Reach Bandit
4 Kessig Prowler
4 Lathnu Hellion
3 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
2 Electrostatic Pummeler
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 Bristling Hydra
4 Attune with Aether
4 Eldritch Evolution
Artifacts
2 Aetherworks Marvel
Lands
10 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Game Trail
2 Cinder Glade
For me, this deck begs to be a faster fires of yavimaya deck. Focus on cards that stay ahead of curve. My list, is built around a turn 4-5 win. That means I need heavy hitters with trample and haste. Wizards has given us essentially 3 different ball lightning type cards to use, so we should be taking advantage of that. Here is my list.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Longtusk Cub
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Lathnu Hellion
2 Ovalchase Dragster
2 Impetuous Devils
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Collective Defiance
4 Built to Smash
4 Harnessed Lightning
Lands (23)
4 Game Trail
2 Cinder Glade
9 Mountain
8 Forest
i agree with that one.
here is my planned R/G Energy Aggro deck
2 Brazen Scourge
3 Goldnight Castigator
4 Kessig Prowler
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Scythe Leopard
4 Voltaic Brawler
2 Collective Defiance
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Incendiary Flow
Lands 21
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
3 Cinder Glade
6 Mountain
4 Forest
the deck aims to be fast. its 3-4 drops are hasty creatures. there's cheap removal to get rid of blockers, as well as burn to finish off the opponent.
it is risky but also rewarding when ahead, as it really puts the pressure on. when behind... well, just discard it to Collective Defiance.
it's also only one of the few good cards we have against many planeswalkers since we're going to lose Exquisite Firecraft. actually, now that i thought about it, does Red or Green have other answers to PWs aside from the upcoming Flame Lash?
--edit--
Devour in Flames fits the bill, although it's sorcery speed and requires a land to be returned to hand. return Aether Hub, maybe?
IMO the deck should either start with
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
or
4 Kessig Prowler
4 Smuggler's Copter
2+ Fleetwheel Cruiser
Both lists should have 4 Voltaic Brawler and 4 Lathnu Hellion.
These represent the divergence between a straight aggressive plan or going a little bigger into Stompy territory. Mixing the two deckbuilding philosophies results in something unfocused and schizophrenic. An extreme example would be mixing things like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot and Scythe Leopard. Putting things that work directly against one another's game plan like that is going to lead to a bad time. On the whole I would say the Stompy deck is a better choice. The 1 drops just don't have enough power to support true aggro and Atarka's Command is a thing of the past.
The only thing I've seen that I liked in blue is Empyrial Voyager, which I would play only with 4 Verdurous Gearhulk.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
I started out hot on Longtusk Cub but I've been swearing off it. It's great when you have a t1 Attune with Aether into t2 Longtusk Cub on the play. Awful anywhere else. The deck is energy thirsty and having a threat that doesn't produce any when you cast it can be an issue.
The Revolutionary Rebuff/Nebelgast Herald package is quite good against the format. You tap copters when they move to combat, you tap Ally tokens so your Hellions can kill Gideons. Notably, end stepping a Herald and untapping into a gearhulk is a whole lot of flying damage.
Rebuff snags everything not named a Gearhulk, vehicle, or the Temur Emerge enablers.
I don't love Sylvan Advocate this format, just because everything in this format is so big and fast, but with 24 lands and 4 Lay of the Land, maybe we just need cards that play well on defense and offense -- or rather -- attack passably and defend passably. Compare this with Longtusk Cub which is a card that is only great t2 on the play and terrible on the draw and after turn 3 and you've got a card that is average turns 2-5 and then turns into a house turns 6+.
Alternatively, I've considered Servant of the Conduit but we're so threat light as it is that I'm hesitant.
Anyway, updated list from a couple hours of testing.
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Revolutionary Rebuff
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Lathnu Hellion
4x Woodland Wanderer
4x Verdurous Gearhulk
3x Spirebluff Canal
4x Aether Hub
4x Cinder Glade
2x Lumbering Falls
1x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
3x Mountain
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
Instant
4 Blossoming Defense
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Attune with Aether
Land
4 Aether Hub
2 Cinder Glade
7 Forest
4 Game Trail
7 Mountain
3 Appetite for the Unnatural
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Collective Defiance
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Plummet
2 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
I'm JUST getting back in standard and I figured this deck was safe to get into...so some choices are a bit blind to meta etc... so please critique. I figured Blossom defense MB just does too much in terms of being a counter spell to removal and winning trades, this can of course be a removal slot. In the 4cc slot I opted Hydra over Fleetwheel Cruiser, we'll see how tests fair.
SB choices, 3 Appetite for the Unreal since I expect gearhulks and artifacts to have more presence. Thinking this is the best art/enchant removal for what the meta might be. 4 Galvanic's to thwart aggro. Plummets to kill angels. Woodweaver's to get a lil health against aggro. Chandra/defiance to take out 4 def threats.
Also debating 22 land instead since we have so many 2 drops.
T1 Attune with Aether (2E)
T2 Voltaic Brawler (4E)
T3 Lathnu Hellion, swing for 7, pay 2E (4E)
T4 Eldritch Evolution for Ulrich of the Krallenhorde or Verdurous Gearhulk seems good.
You're either going to win T5 or T6 at the absolute latest. On cockatrice, I have done this quite a few times.
Asking for others to get you information behind paywalls is not allowed. -- Lugger
https://youtu.be/ZJ8y3C2rEXc
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
4x Lathnu Hellion
2x Relentless Hunter
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
2x Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Nissa, Vital Force
Sorceries (6)
4x Attune with Aether
2x Eldritch Evolution
Instants (6)
2x Blossoming Defense
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Aether Hub
2x Cinder Glade
4x Game Trail
7x Forest
5x Mountain