I had a decent run with my list a couple of weeks ago (here), but it struggled against control - it didn't seem quick enough. I couldn't finish them off before they could stabilise. So, I tried the mono-red list from GP Warsaw (top of this page, with a couple of minor changes, such as running a main-board Chandra in the style of the Rubin mentality of an "extra" sideboard card). Although that ran me to another top 8 finish, this list seemed to lack any kind of reach, losing against Grixis Control and RG Energy. It was quick, but if any opponent slowed me down, it fizzled out. This latest list tries to go down the middle of the two previous lists. It runs a lot of one- and two-drop creatures in the style of the GP Warsaw list, and main-boards the Borrowed Hostility as pseudo-removal/Bolts. It includes a couple of Collective Defiance as more burn or creature removal as well. The Lupine Prototypes were good against control, but not so good against creature heavy decks, so I've moved them to the board to replace the Hostilities that came in. Although GDD also work against control, running only 20 (or 21 if one goes in the side) seems bad to get the GDD cast on time. I also added Looming Spires, as the potential to go T1 one-drop, T2 Copter, T3 one-drop and crew, Spires on Copter, Borrowed Hostility (or Fiery Temper) seems to be ridiculous, getting in 11 damage by T3. I'm not sure if 4 Spires are too much when coupled with the Aether Hubs, but it seems to run fine so far... Most of my goldfished runs end by T4 or 5, so it's certainly quick now.
There are a several options. The first four listed below are played in most successful deck lists.
Trangress the Mind - One of the more versatile sideboard cards. Good against control, Marvel, and bigger midrange decks.
Galvanic Bombardment - Good against other aggressive decks like RWx.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Good against control. Varies against certain midrange. Can come in if you side into control vs aggro. Versatile enough that it is mainboardable.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghett - Comes in against aggro for the lifelinke. The exiling effect is also good against dredge/zombies.
Lighting Axe - Decent removal if you need extra ways to kill large threats.
Reckless Bushwhacker - Generally would come in against a control deck playing sweepers
Magmatic Chasm - Can be effective against BG midrange decks looking to lock up the ground.
To the Slaughter - Can be a blow out against RG Pummeler under the right circumstances. Sometimes hard to setup though.
Collective Defiance - Good against UR spells style decks as well as spell heavy control.
Call of the Bloodline - Interesting end game engine vs Grixis and UR spells, who likely cannot remove it.
Weaver of Lightning - Good against RWx and Spirits.
Ahhh, bless this post. One of my weakest points is knowing what to SB in against what. In fact, I'm still struggling lol. So here's my little puzzle.
Wanted to share this list that I just found that got Top 8 at TCG States in New Jersey. Not originally a Copter list, but there could be room to include them in order to cycle through the deck to find burn quicker.
Maybe something like this? Inclusion of 4 Aether Hub and Scrapheap Scrounger for extras at the 2-drop level, and Harnessed Lightning actually does a good job of refilling the Hubs. Otherwise it's the same list, but with one less Reveler and three less burn spells. Other options are to go even lower to the ground with Borrowed Hostility, bring back the Bomat Courier as well and drop the land count to 20 ish?
I'm starting to think that mainboarding Chandra is more and more of a good idea, as she's just so good against virtually every deck that we have to worry about. The only deck that I don't really side Chandra in against is Temur marvel, as my only concern versus them is winning as fast as I can.
The only situation right now where I feel like Chandra as a sideboard is an intelligent decision is if you sideboard into a pretty extensive midrange/control setup, feat. the likes of Kalitas and Goblin Dark-Dwellers. In this context it makes sense, as it helps to change your playstyle enough to throw off and even invalidate your opponents g2 plan against you. Chandra alone, however, is not really much of a change in the pace of the deck. In fact, I would argue it even helps us to be MORE aggressive, as we can potentially use her +1 as a means of digging for the destruction we need to kill valuable targets/flying blockers.
@Glavtech: I agree. I think she suits the meta more that it isn't primarily RWx decks (where we want her post board anyway once we adjust with more removal). Indeed, the 10th place GP list the other weekend played 3x Chandra main. I find I side into her in almost every match too. In fact I've been considering another revamp of my list to incorporate her main lately, probably cutting Cruiser to make room.
@Pseudofate: Sorry I haven't replied. I do want to provide some suggestions as far as sideboarding and will try to post something later.
Priest can't smash through Ishkanah, and its trigger will only really kill an early Grim Flayer or Spider Token. Courier tends to get blanked on the ground early, so it can be tough to get value. I don't like cutting Courier too much since it makes our apprentices less reliable.
What is good and bad in this matchup really depends on if UW is more of a control shell, with Avacyns and Gearhulks as their main creatures, or more of a spirits midrange deck with Thraben Inspector, Reflector Mage, and so forth. Against a control version, it really depends on how many creatures they are running. If they are running Queller, I'm more likely to want to cut Heir rather than Flow.
Basically, you want to be the control deck. I think siding out Copter when we are the control deck is likely right. We are cutting back on a lot of our threats to add more removal, and so having pilots can be tough to manage. Copter isn't the greatest on defense either, since it forces us to tap down one of our blockers. Its close between whether or not we should cut Heir or Courier. I think keeping Courier might be better. Hier is not great on defensive either. Most of the time we are looking to trade, and we will have to discard to get to that point. Add the fact that RW will have 4/4 copters half the time. And cutting Courier along with the rest of our 2-drop artifacts makes Apprentices pretty bad, which is otherwise a decent defensive 2/3. One thing in Heirs favour is that it gives us a way to madness our Tempers and Priests, even after we've cut Key and Copter.
Similar to RW, but I think Heir gets the edge here since we can actually trade with a Copter with it. Your build likely has the edge due to the Priests, so I would likely just play the control game on both play and draw.
Vs. Aetherworks
IN: +4 Transgress
OUT: -4 Disintegration
Disintegration doesn't really kill anything except for Cranes, and it really isn't worthwhile for that alone. Game plan is to stay aggressive as possible and use Transgress to hopefully buy yourself a couple of turns.
Vs. Zombies
IN: +2 Kalitas, +4 Galvanic
OUT: -4 Disintegration
This choice is probably fully dependent on what kind of Zombie deck we are talking about. If they are running the big flip vampire, then keeping Disintegration looks a lot better (maybe cut Courier). Otherwise, I think you want to swap it for cheaper removal to keep yourself on tempo to race them. Flow is one of our best cards and should be targeting their Haunted Dead and Scroungers when possible, but taking out and Amalgam is also good.
I'm not really sure what the best plan is for these guys. Transgress seems like a given to take out a Hydra before it resolves. I think maybe bringing in Galvanic over Flow is correct, as we want instant speed interaction where possible. I think cutting Scrounger might be the right call since we are not looking to go long and it cannot block. The plan is to kill their main threats as they cast them and have some sort of tempo like pressure like Copter while we do so.
Vs. Jeskai Control
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra
OUT: -2 Key, -4 Flow
I like cutting Flow more so than cutting Disintegration. Disintegration can be a pretty backbreaking play when they are trying to flash in an Avacyn to stablize the board. Granted, it is awkward if they do not have a target. Flow generally is just going to go to the face though, so I think the tempo play is more valuable.
Here, cutting Disintegration is definitely the right call, since they have far fewer targets. If they are running Thing in the Ice, you might still want to use the Jeskai plan.
It's all good buddy. The "puzzle" was open to all not specifically a task for you. The information you provided will be invaluable and I thank you. Interestingly enough, I had the same thoughts on a few of the suggestions, especially Scrounger vs. RG Energy.
Had our weekly Wednesday standard last night, only 8 participants but LGS still pays $100 credit split between t4 and was able to net a piece for myself going 2-1 losing only to Energy because I drew a mountain a turn too late. Otherwise it was gonna be a blowout! Bombard your Hydra with trigger on stack, next turn flip Heir putting hellbent Priest into play with copter on field already. Boom. Was able to defeat Delerium off the back of 4 "Lightning Bolts" and played against some weird Dynatower/Fog deck.
I made a quick change prior to the event due to Galv's suggestion and replaced Keys with Chandra for the night and put Lost Legacy back in the SB. I dunno, I have a real crush on that card. It can just destroy a lot of win cons. Though I think it may be less effective against Delerium now a days because every deck runs a unique amount of the core creatures. For example, I ripped one last night vs Delerium and promptly named Ish and the dude had ONE in the deck. Was surprising. I will probably put her back in the SB rather than the main. Though she is very good at getting in for shocks, this format is particularly creature heavy and Key will probably benefit the deck more then easily side her in vs. creatureless builds.
Toying with the idea of trying a couple of Harsh Scrutiny in the side vs UW Flash Midrange. They tend to interact with Reflector Mage, Queller, and Avacyn, and so being able to clear those away before they cast them seems like it could work.
Hello everybody! So ever since Kaladesh has been released I've been focused on vehicles and slowly worked my way from R/W to Mardu and now to R/B. I've been on the fence about whether to stick with R/B or go back to Mardu, but I'm more on the side of sticking with it mainly because I feel at this point the madness theme is stronger than the vehicle theme from Kaladesh. At least until Aether Revolt comes out.
The main pitfall people seem to say this deck has is its heavy reliance on Smuggler's Copter. However, I've been pretty impressed with Heir of Falkenrath over Pia Nalaar, both because it takes some of the heat off the copter and because its a harder hitting evasive threat compared to Pia. Also, I'm mainboarding two copies of Key to the City, which helps even more with the madness triggers and is great for flashing in Bloodhall Priest. Right now with the prevalence of G/B Delirium and U/W Flash, I think 2 on the main and 2 on the side is appropriate.
Also, is Alms of the Vein still a good card? I've been pretty impressed with it and I feel like along with Fiery Temper its the main reason this deck is faster than Mardu. However, I am speculating on cutting it down to three along with cutting one Bloodhall Priest to try a couple copies of Built to Smash. Someone had a good point by saying Built to Smash is a good way to handle Gideon.
U/W Flash: 2-0 Played against the more aggressive spirit based version but he never had time to stabilize. Alms of the Vein and Key to the City were the best in the match.
G/B Delirium: 0-2 I didn't have the full six copies of Lost Legacy and Transgress the Mind to side in for this match up, but I definitely think that's the best plan going forward. This deck has only one problem for us: Ishkanah Ishkanah Ishkanah. The opponent I played in the third round ran into the same exact problem and lost because of that spider.
Grixis Vehicles: 0-2 Impressive build that was pretty similar to mine except it included Saheeli Rai and Prized Amalgam along with Haunted Dead and Cathartic Reunion. Really felt like a toss-up. I boarded in the Galvanic Bombardments but did not have the [cardWeaver of Lightning[/card]s either. I'm horrible at acquiring sideboard tech.
So far had the following record (noted where opponent dropped or conceded prematurely):
0-2 UW Flash
2-1 Grixis Control
2-0 BGC Delerium
2-0 5-Color Panharmonicon
0-1 RW Artificer (drop)
0-2 GR Energy
1-1 UW Flash (drop)
2-1 GR Energy
2-1 Temur Energy
2-1 GR Energy
1-0 RC Aggro
1-1 UR Spells (drop)
1-2 Mardu Vehicles
Or 7-4-2 overall I suppose.
I'm not sure I liked having less burn overall though, given there were a few games where I just needed to draw some direct damage. There was a couple of games where Heir performed excellently. However, against UW, it felt terrible getting Reflector Mage'd. Mainboard Chandra I liked a lot, but it was somewhat tricky to play vs UW and it felt underwhelming staring down GR's Hydra.
I didn't play enough BG really to get a feel for that matchup. I did play a bit of UW earlier with a different build, and man are they frustrating to play against.
Mono Red Artifacts 1-0 (drop)
Mardu Vehicles 1-2
WR Vehicles 1-0 (drop)
GR Energy 2-1
GR Delerium 2-1
WR Vehicles 0-2
UR Summoning 2-1
Apart from some of the usual tilt of the ridiculously unlikely mulligans/draws that MTGO seems to give me, it went OK. 3-2 if you don't count the concedes after game 1, otherwise 5-2. Deck feels solidly Tier 2 though.
The Ganz deck has been a machine for me in Standard Friendly leagues recently. I've been grinding them a bit since I found out about the treasure chest price jump. Four 4-1s and a 3-2. It's fun to play a deck that gets after the opponent while also interacting with their cards. I like the plan of going hyper aggro game one and a more controlling game two and three (- Bomat Courier and Bloodhall Priest, + Chandra, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and whatever removal or discard is good). Pia is really nice for pushing that last bit of damage through.
I find UW flash not to be that bad as long as we get a reasonably fast draw. Games two and three we have enough removal to kill all their dudes and grind them out with Scrounger/Copter/Chandra. The main thing is not to walk face first into their tricks.
The RG energy matchup got a lot better for me once I started running the To the Slaughter playset in the side for basilisk control purposes.
The deck that gives me problems in game two and three is BG Delirium. They run a lot of threats that require very specific counters. Grim Flayer needs Incendiary Flow to die "on time." Liliana needs a solid creature presence on the board. Mindwrack Demon requires Lightning Axe or Unlicensed Disintegration. Ishkanah has to be plucked from the hand. If Ishkanah hits the deck you basically have to win with burn, since even if you kill the spider it's inevitably getting recycled. It makes it hard to tune the control suite to fit the matchup. Maybe the best solution with them is to go even more suicide aggro.
I don't know. UW lately seems to always have the early game stuff to blank my aggression. Inspector makes Courier sad. Reflector is always a pain and tends to break up the aggression and shift the tempo their way single handedly. I've tried discard but it's awkward at best.
As far as GB. I find our best tool is Key to the City. Helps against Ishkanah in particular.
If UW god curves then things get dicey. I do think we are one of the few decks that has a fighting chance even without an absurdly lucky draw. We can match them with a one drop into copter. We pack enough removal so that Queller is a speed bump instead of a brick wall. We can even run an attack into five open mana as long as we have 1BR available on our side... in my experience the UW player will walk Avacyn right into her disintegration.
Don't get me wrong, you can still play well and lose, but at least we have the tools to compete. I've piloted other decks against UW and had plenty of games where I felt I never had a chance.
I managed my first 5-0 this evening through both BG and UW. I have a brief match report below. The Key to the City seems like a great idea that I will definitely fit into the sideboard going forward. For this event I used the Ganz list from page 9 with this sideboard:
Round 1: RB Hasty Aggro (2-1)
Talk about going for it. My opponent was running Village Messenger, Lathnu Hellion, Dust Stalker, and Eldrazi Obligator together with staples like Smuggler's Copter and Unlicensed Disintegration. Looked like a fun list.
Game one I got a smidge flooded and he beat me down. Game two I sided to be more controlling but my hand turned out to be pure gas. I beat him down with Copter and Pia while disintegrating everything he played. Game three was more grindy and Chandra + removal backup proved to be too much for him.
Round 2: UR Control (2-0)
Game one is on the 1-for-1 trade until control dies script. He goes through four removal spells while his life total is pecked down and finally drops a Combustible Gearhulk that is promptly disintegrated, leading to a scoop. Scrapheap Scrounger and Pia are MVPs with persistent beats and persistent apprentice pumps. Game two I stick with the aggro package and get similar results. Biggest opponent tilting moment happened on his turn three when he cast a dynavolt tower leading to my turn three where I transgressed away Radiant Flames. The rest of his hand is a void shatter and goblin dark dwellers. He casts another tower but doesn't manage any other spells as my scrounger and couriers go all the way.
Round 3: UW Flash (2-0)
Game one modo shows me an unlicensed disintegration after I mulligan. I put it on the top (game log confirms) and my first draw is a bomat courier -- I end up winning game one despite massive card disadvantage. I lightning axed his Inspector early on so my couriers could get through, tossing scrounger, and my couriers promptly ate Declaration in Stone. Start of turn three I had Pia and a land in hand, two lands in play, just the scrounger in the grave. Pia comes down. He plays copter, I play topdecked scrounger. He plays Gideon and makes a knight. I burn both my clues with Pia so the knight and copter can't block and kill Gideon. He plays a Selfless Spirit and Revolutionary Rebuffs my hellbent Bloodhall Priest (life total 20-12 my favor). Spirit crews copter, beats, Pia eats Declaration. Thopter swings and another spirit comes down. One Scrounger comes back and I crack a clue. He blocks scrounger with his copter and has to use both spirits to save it as I Fiery Temper in response to the first. He bricks, the Scrounger comes back and attacks. A hellbent priest drops him to 5 and he concedes. We had the same land count at the end of the game, my hand was empty, he had three blanks in hand I guess.
Basically this backed up my theory: when in doubt, go aggro. Your position will rarely improve in game one by sitting back to wait. If you make them have it sometimes they won't. Also, Scrounger can make up for a lot of card disadvantage.
Game two my two leadoff Apprentices eat a Declaration in Stone while Pia's thopter gets vaporized by a reflector mage. The Clue tokens fuel a disintegration on the mage and Pia swings in. Double selfless spirit turn four neutered my dark-dweller in hand. Pia ate another declaration but my opponent declined to attack with his two spirits or his inspector, even with another freshly summoned spirit staying home. The power of the copter on board... I start cracking clues and dig into removal. Flow and two Tempers see his spirits out over the next two turns. Pia crews a Copter and sails into five open mana. Avacyn comes down and gets disintegrated. Next turn, same thing with a six mana lightning axe. He cracks a clue the following turn and concedes.
Disintegration is insanely good. It's worth going a little out of your way to keep it fueled.
Round 4: BG Delirium (2-1)
Game one I'm able to burn him out once he stuffs the early blitz (blitz: he used removal initially and his first creature was a Pilgrim's Eye... I lightning axed it and discarded Temper to the dome). He dropped Ishkanah at ten life but my Bomat Courier refilled my empty hand with five new cards and I was able to whittle him down from there. Temper, temper, disintegration, then Bomat to attack with one more attacker than he had blockers.
Game two was a miserable experience in getting ground out by superior cards.
Game three I put the Couriers back in and went on the aggro plan. I was able to get there through Kalitas, Ishkanah, Noxious Gearhulk, and a Mindwrack Demon thanks to Disintegration, Axe, flying overhead, and another Axe respectively. Scrounger and Copter bring the beats while a couple Flows to the dome get him into the red zone.
I've gotten into the habit if I have Scrounger and Copter turn two I will usually play the Scrounger. If they have open mana and the Scrounger has a reasonable attack I'll just send him instead of crewing. People will take damage from him that they won't from copter. Using removal on Scrounger feels like a waste and I think people overestimate their ability to stabilize against RB aggro.
Round 5: BW Swarm (2-0)
This was a pretty sweet brew. Copters, Inspectors, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, Scroungers, Angel of Invention, and Skysovereign all in the main deck. Game one I'm able to stay on the front foot and keep too much pressure on him to stabilize. One thing that has helped me lately is that I've been more aggressive with my Lightning Axe usage. In this game I used one, tossing a courier, to turn a token + token + inspector block on my apprentice into a wipeout. Horrible value but it kept up the pressure on the board.
Game two he got out to a fast start while both of the transgresses I had speculatively sided in sat in my hand. Fortunately they were tossed later to a copter and lightning axe. I eventually get enough burn to stifle his attack and the scrounger/apprentice/copter/burn team took over the game from there.
Summary
Overall I feel like Andreas Ganz basically got the deck right. It's chock full of cards that are very efficient at killing our opponent. It can interact reasonably well with most other decks, and I personally like a deck with a healthy amount of reach to close out games. There's room to tweak the sideboard but the main deck can go toe to toe with the format staples in my opinion. The fact that the whole thing is about half the price of a playset of Lilianas online is just icing on the cake.
Invested in both this and the RW Vehicles build on MTGO, but I'm missing some stuff as my funds are limited. Very nice thread. Here's some observations from my leagues, of the RB variat:
1) I've been viciously beaten up by some dude with a straight vampire build. I'm not even sure he ran Copters or anything, just a load of madness, and this is important - that Enchantment for 1 B, which sacrifices itself, you pay 1 life and discard ETC but you kill a dude. That is more or less the key vs. Emrakul off of Aetherworks Marvel. That deck is very stupid btw, and the most stupid thing about it is is that isn't really much of a deck, it's just sticking Aetherworks Marvel into the usual GB mythic spam and using energy producing ramp.
2) The Aehterworks marvel deck is everywhere, mostly because of point 1. What's worse, it's not that Aetherworks Marvel is everywhere, but that GB is everywhere and it's a really bad matchup because most of their cards are mythic and cards which tutor them, or removal. It's very difficult to be able to deal with both Emrakul on turn 3-4 and their regular gameplan of just plonking down ghastly dudes. I have some vague notion that RW has a better game here if it goes that 1WW aura which can mess Emrakul up main, and that's also handy because it can also mess Gearhulks up.
3) Falkenrath Gorgers just stare at Thraben Inspector and don't really do much. Thing is, I'm not in fact sure what exactly does Nerd Ape really do for this deck, either. In RW, I got a lot of wins by sneakily having 4 Built to Last that noone expected which allowed me all sorts of offensive and defensive shennanigans with Bomat Courrier, Nerd Ape, Toolcraft Exemplar and especially with the copter. To tell you the truth, I constantly wish the deck was white just for Built to Last because it's so difficult to not just eat enemy removal and go out of steam. And most things I run into are loaded with removal (and I've played more than one decks which is just nothing but endless removal, 1-2 planeswakers and angels/gearhulks).
4) Between leaving mana open for Bomat Courier and the copter, the deck is awfully slow for an aggro deck. And what Nerd Ape does is kinda-sorta discourage enemy attacking more than himself being agressive. And Scrapheap Scrounger doesn't actually do all that much, there's too many things which remove it from the game. What's not helping is that Built to Smash can't be played defensively, so the difference between it and Built to Last is enormous.
5) Even attempting to play it without the more expensive duals is insane. And the duals themselves are not that good, compared to the RW ones. And don't bother with 4 Aether Hub unless you're really splashing. Actually, if it wasn't so slow and gimmicky and had a cheap way to attack into enemy blockers, I'd go for 4 "3R Exile land or artifact do 2 damage" as the 4 mana curve topper, just to properly screw up all the lazy control decks.
6) I've said it once and I'll say it again, the Copter is just not that great. It's a gimmicky equipment which turns your creature into a flying 3/3, and yes, it does let you loot, but it's a, well, card filtering thing, not a board presence thing, and it can really set your tempo back if you go for it and it eats removal. Which it always does, since everybody is playing Grasp of Darkness and Harnessed Lightning to counter it. It's a very cool card, don't get me wrong, but it feels to me like the deck is trying to fit around it and for me it's not working. In RW it worked much better because I had Servo Exibition (which would also make the Toolcraft Exemplar have first strike, and then Odric could give everyone first strike, and also it made 2 pilots but left 1 mana open on turn 3 to save the damned copter with Built to Last). What it does here is... well, eat removal and it can trigger madness, but it's not like there aren't other things which trigger it too. And triggering it doesn't really help all that often.
7) I really wish I could get my hands on Flame Lash. Yes, it's a Lightning Blast reprint, but the thing with Lightning Blast is that it's a damned fine card and always has been, and it would take Liliana and a few other things out, and you can aim it at the other guys head. I suppose I should just buy the multiple choice 1RR rare. Also, I whish I could get my hands on mardu lands.
8) I really like Bomat Courrier and I really like Insolent Neonate and I'm not sure they should both be in the same deck, or alternatively, that if they're the one-drops that there's room for other ones. Insolent Neonate, oddly, feels better for this sort of deck than the Courier, even though the Courier is a much stronger card overall. What the courier does is refill your hand when it can, which is generically great, and power up Nerd Ape, which isn't all that worth it in RB. What the Neonate does is cycle for no extra mana, get a few points in very often, help you curve out with Madness (trying to do this with the courier is very iffy), safely bury itself for the Scrapheap Scrounger, and can pretty much always activate in response to enemy whatever. Heir to Falkenrath has also been rather great, and would probably be even better if that black +1/+0 indistructible-until-eot thing cost 1 mana and helped against Grasp of Darkness, or pumped for more. Unlicenced Desintegration is THE card, except it doesn't do anything vs. an insanely early Emrakul (really, what were they thinking?) and it requires a big bunch of artifacts to be around.
9) I'm having problems with Key to the City, which is kinda supposed to be the cornerstone of the madness build, but fails to deliver for me. It's because Heir to Falkerath is evasive anyway, and so is the Copter, and so is the Insolent Neonate. Nerd Ape hits for 2, big whoop, Bomat Courrier also isn't hitting for much, Scrapheap Scrounger is worth a card and the 4/4 vampire is worth it but by the time the stars align for him to be out the other guy has Emrakul. Or all your dudes have been killed. Or the guy you make unblockable gets killed mid-attack and the other guy also gains 4 life. Or there's a bunch of 5 powered red and green guys looking at you.
10) So IDK. Maybe I need to build/play it way more like a straight burn deck, or maybe it only works if you have chandra, and I certainly have to get the lands together, but as cool and enticing it is (sank a pretty penny into it allready) it's not really as strong as it kinda feels like it should be.
There are different 1-drop options but you sort of point out why they are not used. Gorger just lines up so badly against Inspector. This makes running stuff like Inventor's Apprentice much more attractive. It can attack into an Inspector T2 after you deploy a Scrounger or Copter.
Copter isn't exactly the backbreaking warping card everyone seem to think it is, but it is a crucial element to the deck. Some of the most busted turns come from when we are able to do 2-3 things on T3 because of stuff like Fiery Temper off a Copter. Those turn sequences makes the deck briefly feel like a Legacy deck.
Mostly I wanted to comment about Key. I love the card. Interestingly, I do a lot of discarding to it just to get the untap trigger to draw a card. This is the reason why this card is good. I'll discard lands, some early game creatures that are now outclassed, extra Copters and Keys, so I can dig for what I do need. You should think about this line if you want to take full advantage of the card. It also plays really well in a deck running Bloodhall main, since it gives the deck a nice T2-T3 sequence.
One common theme I've noticed when I lose games is that I've seen more land cards than spells. Old school RDW used to do 20/20/20 land/creature/burn. Is there some mathematical reason we're at 23? I'm tempted to shave two or three for more action cards.
Speaking of that, one common theme I notice is that I don't see enough lands or enough of the right sort of lands. I tried 20-20-20 (there are some lists like that around this thread) and it was miserable due to mulligans. A mono-color variant might be able to pull it off.
The guy who ran me over with a RB vampires-madness with barely any artifacts in it ran it main, and then swapped it for Call the Bloodline. I have a feeling that card is rather unappreciated, and I need to get me some of that. Kills all sorts-a critters. I also sincerely wonder if there isn't a more artifacts and less madness heavy build which can make Underhanded Designs work.
For science's sake I'm currently running a build with no Copters and no Inventors Apprentice. In their place I have, don't laugh it's less moronic than it looks:
Insolent Neonate - because he gets in for his 2-3 damage total more often than not, gets that Bloodhall Priest out on turn 3, draws a card if they shoot him, offsets land flood, helps with mana screw, reanimates scrapheap scrounger, walks the dog, does the dishes, you name it. Olivia's Dragoon - Because he's a dude if he's alone on the board, he's evasive if need be, gets the Bloodhall Priest out on turn 3 in response to the enemy throwing removal at him and regardless of whether there+s a dude on board, and you can also attack with the other dude, too, and as opposed to most other things he lets you dump your hand if you want the Bloodhall Priest to come in with burn or attack with burn and this doesn't cost any extra mana. Yes it's a stoooooopid-looking grizzly bear and the idea that someone would chuck a copter out to put this garbage in is stooooopid, except it seems to roll nicely and I want to see what happens. Senseless Rage - Again, I took copter out and put this in, wtf? Well, it's a combat trick and noone really sees those coming. The point is that there's Key to the City and there's the Insolent Neonate with his madness, and there's 7 flying dudes in the deck, and there's Bomat Courier who likes to attack and Scrapheap Scrounger who also likes to attack and being able to sic one of them with a +2/+2 out of nowhere is actually rather good, and the fact that it also sticks on the person is also rather nice. If it lets you kill something - great, if it just stick around for 1-2 swings - epic, 4 dmg for 2 mana, what's not to like. If it saves your dude from a 3 dmg removal (bunch of them around) or a -2/-2 sweeper - it already payed for itself, and you also might have time-walked the other guy. So IDK, I can actually see it working, Built to Last is 100% constructed playable, I'm just frustrated enough to see what happens with this.
The main concern is having enough artifacts around for Desintegration, otherwise it's been running rather smoothly so far (in the practice room, which is not the same thing as even a friendly league, but still, 24 lands and the junk noted above and it seems to flow nicely).
Sideboard (15)
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Key to the City
4 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Incendiary Flow
4 Weaver of Lightning
will try +Heir of Falkenrath -Pia Nalaar. Chandra main is awesome, once it hits the board, its a 3 turn clock/pressure (emblem) on opponents, gets value for Bomats and other 1CMC .....
For people on a budget, meaning no fancy lands, Chandra, multi-target burn and even copters, this seems to be killing people for me in the tournament practice room. Even people with very serious-looking decks.
I say if you want to get into this archetype in a cheap budgety way start with this (get 4X copies of every card). It might not be the strongest variant, but it's kinda cheap and if you don't get mana screwed it'll beat folks up fine.
EDIT: I swapped around the numbers on Heir to Falkenrath and Olivia's Dragoon, as that's what I'm actually using. Both have their pros and cons, honestly. The sideboard is a rotating thing while I try different stuff and different numbers of existing stuff out.
For the sideboard I have to try various things out yet to be sure. What I'm sure of so far is:
- Olivia's Dragoon on board and any number of Senseless Rage is usually so good against some decks (namely those with numbers based removal apart from Grip of Darkness and Lightning Axe), that it might actually be a good idea to run 4X Olivia's Dragoon and 3X Heir to Falkenrath. The Heir can beat up Ishkana with it, though. It would be a lot better with more creatures with 3 toughness, but it obviously doesn't work with Smuggler's Copter and running Inventor's Aprentice without both Copter and taking out the Neonate is not what I'd advise (and paradoxicaly the Neonate seems to do more damage to opponents in practice beacause of the menace and being able to randomly survive a double block if you stick Senseless Rage on him, go figure.) Also, folks will sometimes think you're just suiciding Bomat Courier and lose something to the combat trick (You would discard it anyway if you sacrificed the courier so why not take something with you?)
If you're up against a deck with non-numbers based removal, you likely want to take Senseless Rage out because they lose their "save a dude" function. I don't have any Call the Bloodline to try out, but I've had them played against me and it looks fearsome. I beat it with Senseless Rage and fliers because the little bastards can't chump, but still, who's going to play this junk against you?
EDIT: Also, Weaver of Lightning, if you have it, doesn't work with Senseless Rage. On the other hand it's kinda obvious what goes in and what goes out in that case. And if you're bringing in Weaver of Lightning to deal with the enemy copters, and it's in the practice room, you might consider leaving the Senseless Rage in. Just to see if you get to wtfpwn a copter with it and one of your black vampires.
- Against Emrakul, and I suppose also Torrential Gearhulk, and probably the various Angel variants, go Sinister Concoction. Gearhulk you can possibly try to race by adding more direct damage, but I find Aetherworks nonsense on turn 3 a bit impossible to race sensibly, so I opt for this (as it also takes out Kalitas and Mindwrack Deamon and whathave you). I'm not sure what exactly is the best thing to remove.
- I'd be playing Flame Lash against planeswalkers, Liliana especially, and I think I'd be doing much better than I am right now in leagues if I had access to it for this specific reason (also it's a gap closing burn that can also blow up a planeswalker, whats not to like). It appears not to be available for sale on MTGO (does this mean Kaladesh is unredeemable by default???). There's a rare "kill a dude or plaeswalker" thing with awaken from BFZ and To the Slaughter from SOI (I think). Wouldn't mind trying either. Being an old time Oddysey block Chainers Edict player I'd go with the value of Awaken for those late game situations.
- If I had a more solid mana base, I'd run either Blighted Fen or Blighted Gorge or two. Oddysey block tech again. Everybody's kinda expecting to close out the game in 5 turns, but with all the control prancing around with tons of removal and silly 6 mana plans, games tend to drag. And there's decks which are absurdly light on win conditions apart from beating face with a lateish big monster.
- For the mess of go-wide decks, there's the eldrazi -2/-2 1BB thing, which has the obvious downside of being 1BB (and also exiling your own scroungers and scrounger fodder). There's also Biting Rain, which looks good but there isn't anything like Zombie Infestation this madness-block around, so what you'd be casting it off is probably a Neonate or Key to the City. Less budget friendly there's Radiant Flames (which can conveniently go for 3 with Aether Hub) and there's Kozilek's Return which is just too expensive to consider.
- I'm kinda very tempted to have 4X Structural Distortion in the sideboard. If you're going to be on the play and are racing, assuming the Bloodhall Priest gets dropped off madness at turn 3, landing this is pretty good. Later on it also takes out man lands, various 4cc artifacts, gearhulks, and does a bit of damage (occasionally to planeswalkers even).
- With a proper mana base which included the hub and 2 blighted lands, I'd maybe consider Thought Knot Seer. Being able to knock out a board wipe or a win condition in many of these control decks at turn 4 seems like it'd be a great move, even if he eats removal immediately. Dunno how expensive he is, I haven't checked.
- And one last thing for now, yeah - if the lowered artifact count has made Unlicenced Disintegration less great, I'm not exactly certain what the best move is. If you're fine with it being just a Murder in a matchup, it's fine, plenty of decks play a murder. But I'm not sure which 5 artifacts I'd bring in. Well, I am, 1 courier and 4 copter, obviously, but I'm not sure which matchup would justify having them in. The point of this budget experiment is to see how the whole thing works without the copter and inventors apprentice, slay some sacred cows and see about unconsidered cards. You could keep 4X Inventors Apprentice, 4X Copter, 1X Boumat Courrier and 4X Alms of the Vein in the board and bring them in while taking 4X 2mana vampires , 4X Insolent Neonate, 3X Senseless Rage, 1 Bloodhall Priest and one land out and have essetially the standard issue deck, just with 3X madness outlet vampires in place of Pia (and you could keep 2X Pia in the board too). Except IDK what matchup specifically that deck is better against than this one.
I think I'll keep Incendiary Flow in my sideboard and if if feel less mana-intensive burn is what I'm looking for I might replace Desintegration with it. Or something.
- There's probably some cheap artifact destruction I've overlooked somewhere.
So that's the long of it, so far.
Also a few more budget/off the wall considerations and tips:
- One of the reasons the Copter can be a liability is that everyone's running Harnessed Lightning. The real reason to run Harnessed Lightning is actually because it lets you more reliably get your mana fixing out of Aether Hub. The card itself doesn't really fit with the plan of small dudes and burn to the face, or even with being just 2 colors, but it does kill the enemy copter, it's the only reasonable-looking red energy producer which could help this deck with mana issues (which is a big deal, actually), and in case of even just a little energy overflow it can kill 4 toughness dudes which there's a bunch of. Since everyone's running it, it's not budget anymore, and it doesn't really fit into the curve, but if I was going for pure stability I could try 4 of them instead of (gasp!) Licenced Desintegration.
In this case I'd MAYBE try Falkenrath Gorger instead of Bomat Courier. The reason for the last thing is that having a straight dmg dealing 1 drop would possibly be a bit better if there was a 2 mana creature-remover in the deck which you kinda also want to play to fix your mana. I'm not really happy with the plan because I really want to be playing a dude/madness outlet on turn 2. But I can see games where the other guy is on the play and trying to play anything but removal on turn 2 (or keeping mana open for it) will result in terrible things for you.
The problem is that you can sorta get a playset of Bloodhall Priest for 1 Harnessed Lightning, so you should probably be getting that or the lands or the Scrapheap Scroungers instead.
- One card that's budget and off everyone's radar but seems like a cute little metagame choice is Twins of Maurer Estate. I'd say budget replacement for Bloodhall Priest, but the card is specifically interesting because it's REALLY hard to burn off the table (takes a Lightning Axe or a 5 energy Harnessed Lightning) and it survives both Grasp of Darkness (which is everywhere) and that 1BB 3 dmge gain 3 life thing (unless combat happens where you might get tricked into it). The cool thing about it is that it blocks even delirium'd Grim Flayer, which almost nothing at our disposal does (and this is part of why the GB matchup is even harder than it looks, you're almost always forced to spend removal on the big guys, while Grim Flayers just waltz around and fix their plays).
It's a budget junky-looking common, but 3/5 for 3 with flash + whatever effect you get from madness (in this deck it's: "Draw a card", "Target creature gets flying and possibly +1/+1", "Target creature becomes unblockable, and you can also draw a card") IDK, it's respectable. Not for copter variants, obviously because those want a non-madness dude down on turn 3, but for these "black skies" variants, I can see it rolling.
This is also why the copter variants, as strong as they can be, don't really work the best with Bloodhall Priest specifically. The only way Bloodhall Priest lands on turn 3, if copter was out on turn 2, is if you discard it to the copter. But in order for that to happen you have to either:
a) Have had a 1 drop, and then use it to power the copter, which mean it doesn't attack.
b) Get to attack (or possibly block) with the copter, which means not get it hit with removal on T2, which happens fairly often especially post-board.
And that's if you drew the copter, and the only other thing that can get the priest out on turn 3 in the regular build is key to the city. Which also takes a dude being on board on either side, but it's still more reliable. This generally means that there's usually 4 + 2 things in the entire deck which can get the priest down on turn 3, and 4 of those can get disrupted. In the more vampire-centric budget build, your turn 2 guy is somewhat likely to eat a removal, but this usually still leaves the neonate to get the priest down, and in any case there are 14 cards which can get a 3cc madness card out on turn 3.
So in a copter build I wouldn't really bother with Twins of Maurer Estate except if for whatever reason you want to replace Bloodhall Priest with them (maybe you don't have the lands and want less mana screw potential, maybe you're strapped for cash but have copters, maybe you run enough madness outlets besides the copter and maybe 5 toughness works really well for you because of the removal in your meta, who knows). But I'll surely try it in the copterles build just to see what happens. Maybe even as sideboard vs. removal, as having a potentially flash guy with a big ass should be rather nice when the other guy boards in a bunch of removal. I mean, it laughs at Galvanic Lightning.
I've been playing with several elements of this deck since Kaladesh was released. At first, I sought a true marriage between "Innistrad" and "Kaladesh" themes, using a lot of "madness" cards to go with the new equipment and a nice Mardu land base. In my build, I was running a stronger theme of "burn" and coupled that with madness, equipment, and value oriented creatures... And it looked really good on paper, and even started to "win games" as I tweaked and adjusted it. But I would often find myself needing to just KILL a creature, and have Alms of the Vein in hand. After a month or so of playtesting, I changed gears, pulled the Heirs and Alms, and opted for the list I am running below.
This deck is more of a "Mardu Midrange Control" than most of the decks presented here, as I'm eschewing several of the 1 drop creatures for a stronger burn package. The deck has played really well as of late, going 3-1 last week for FNM (where I OBLITERATED my foes in my 3 wins) and I hope for some good results for the "Standard Showdown" being played at my local shop tomorrow. Here is my list:
In thinking about this deck, I find the cards Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Collective Defiance (especially, "escalated" by 1) to be very powerful cards that help control the board state. I find those cards to really be the MVP's of the deck, and my inclusion of those two cards seems to be different than most approaches for this deck. I like that THC makes people's creatures and non-basic lands come into play "stoned"/tapped, while Collective Defiance with 4 to creature and 3 to the Dome is also really powerful in this current Standard. I hope for some good results tomorrow.
One thing I like about this deck is that it is versatile enough in its options, that sideboarding is less necessary. I'm still working on my sideboard in fact, and need to piece together those 15 cards for tomorrow. But I like that the deck has answers for most threats. It may not be as fast as the typical lists being presented here, but I think it's better in long, grind games, with more of a "back end" and burn package for the final bits of damage. And I finally beat a GR Delirium deck last week that has beaten my like 4 times over the last month. So, it's making progress, and it's really fun to play.
On a quick and stupid note - this deck has a very easy time setting up a kill with Triskaidekaphobia. There's random lifegain here and there but one poke from a 1 drop and two hits for three and whoops - the other guy's dead. Any copter deck can do it in this meta, but this one is likely to run Bomat Courier and/or Insolent Neonate, who poke for that important 1 somewhat easily, and this decks can run the Unlicenced Desintegration and the Collective Defiance for board control, which is nice. The funny thing is that the lousy 1 drop is likely to get that one poke in while the 2-X drops are likely to eat removal and the games can get so grindy that even if it doesn't kill the other guy just ticking him lower into burn range is probably fine-ish. Also, this deck can run the Sinister Concoction, too, so the other guy doesn't trick you.
I mean I just had an Aetherworks marvel guy narrowly dodge it with his lifegain thingy, if the marvel hadn't turned exactly that over, he'd have dropped from me having played 3 cards.
Thoughts on this list?
4 Looming Spires
12 Mountain
Creature (21)
3 Bomat Courier
3 Falkenrath Gorger
3 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (14)
2 Collective Defiance
4 Borrowed Hostility
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
2 Key to the City
2 Collective Defiance
2 Lightning Axe
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Lupine Prototype
4 Galvanic Bombardment
Ahhh, bless this post. One of my weakest points is knowing what to SB in against what. In fact, I'm still struggling lol. So here's my little puzzle.
2 Chandra
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Weaver
2 Kalitas
Vs. Delerium
IN: +4 Transgress, +?
OUT: ?
Vs. WU Flash
IN: +4 Transgress, +3 Weaver, +?
OUT:?
Vs. Vehicles
IN: +4 Bombardment, +2 Kalitas, +3 Weaver, +?
OUT:?
Vs. Mirror
IN: +4 Bombardment, +2 Kalitas, +?
OUT: -2 Key,
Vs. Aetherworks
IN: +4 Transgress, +?
OUT:?
Vs. Zombies
IN: +2 Kalitas, +?
OUT:?
Vs. RG NRG
IN: ?
OUT:?
Vs. Jeskai Control
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra, +?
OUT: -2 Key, -4 Disintegration
Vs. Dynavolt
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra, +?
OUT: -2 Key, -4 Disintegration
My current brew for reference.
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Heir to Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bloodhall Priest
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Key to the City
9 Mountain
9 Swamp
Neonate, Pia, and Olivia were cut. (+4 Nerd Ape, +2 Key, +2 Priest)
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
3 Bedlam Reveler
4 Falkenrath Gorger
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Speedway Fanatic
4 Thermo-Alchemist
Spells (20)
4 Collective Defiance
4 Fiery Temper
4 Flame Lash
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Incendiary Flow
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium
20 Mountain
3 Avacyn's Judgment
3 Goldnight Castigator
3 Lightning Axe
2 Ruinous Gremlin
4 Weaver of Lightning
18 Mountain
4 Aether Hub
Creature (17)
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Falkenrath Gorger
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Thermo-Alchemist
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (20)
2 Collective Defiance
4 Fiery Temper
4 Flame Lash
3 Harnessed Lightning
4 Incendiary Flow
The only situation right now where I feel like Chandra as a sideboard is an intelligent decision is if you sideboard into a pretty extensive midrange/control setup, feat. the likes of Kalitas and Goblin Dark-Dwellers. In this context it makes sense, as it helps to change your playstyle enough to throw off and even invalidate your opponents g2 plan against you. Chandra alone, however, is not really much of a change in the pace of the deck. In fact, I would argue it even helps us to be MORE aggressive, as we can potentially use her +1 as a means of digging for the destruction we need to kill valuable targets/flying blockers.
@Pseudofate: Sorry I haven't replied. I do want to provide some suggestions as far as sideboarding and will try to post something later.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Vs. Delerium
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra
OUT: -4 Priest, -2 Courier
Priest can't smash through Ishkanah, and its trigger will only really kill an early Grim Flayer or Spider Token. Courier tends to get blanked on the ground early, so it can be tough to get value. I don't like cutting Courier too much since it makes our apprentices less reliable.
Vs. WU Flash (midrange/spirits)
IN: +3 Weaver, +4 Galvanic
OUT: -3 Courier, -4 Heir
Vs. WU Flash (control)
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra
OUT: -4 Flow, -2 Key
What is good and bad in this matchup really depends on if UW is more of a control shell, with Avacyns and Gearhulks as their main creatures, or more of a spirits midrange deck with Thraben Inspector, Reflector Mage, and so forth. Against a control version, it really depends on how many creatures they are running. If they are running Queller, I'm more likely to want to cut Heir rather than Flow.
Vs. Vehicles
IN: +4 Bombardment, +2 Kalitas, +3 Weaver, +2 Chandra
OUT: -4 Copter, -4 Courier, -2 Key, -1 Apprentice
Basically, you want to be the control deck. I think siding out Copter when we are the control deck is likely right. We are cutting back on a lot of our threats to add more removal, and so having pilots can be tough to manage. Copter isn't the greatest on defense either, since it forces us to tap down one of our blockers. Its close between whether or not we should cut Heir or Courier. I think keeping Courier might be better. Hier is not great on defensive either. Most of the time we are looking to trade, and we will have to discard to get to that point. Add the fact that RW will have 4/4 copters half the time. And cutting Courier along with the rest of our 2-drop artifacts makes Apprentices pretty bad, which is otherwise a decent defensive 2/3. One thing in Heirs favour is that it gives us a way to madness our Tempers and Priests, even after we've cut Key and Copter.
Vs. Mirror
IN: +4 Bombardment, +2 Kalitas, +2 Chandra
OUT: -4 Courier, -2 Copter, -2 Key
Similar to RW, but I think Heir gets the edge here since we can actually trade with a Copter with it. Your build likely has the edge due to the Priests, so I would likely just play the control game on both play and draw.
Vs. Aetherworks
IN: +4 Transgress
OUT: -4 Disintegration
Disintegration doesn't really kill anything except for Cranes, and it really isn't worthwhile for that alone. Game plan is to stay aggressive as possible and use Transgress to hopefully buy yourself a couple of turns.
Vs. Zombies
IN: +2 Kalitas, +4 Galvanic
OUT: -4 Disintegration
This choice is probably fully dependent on what kind of Zombie deck we are talking about. If they are running the big flip vampire, then keeping Disintegration looks a lot better (maybe cut Courier). Otherwise, I think you want to swap it for cheaper removal to keep yourself on tempo to race them. Flow is one of our best cards and should be targeting their Haunted Dead and Scroungers when possible, but taking out and Amalgam is also good.
OUT:?
Vs. RG NRG
IN: +4 Transgress, +4 Galvanic
OUT: -4 Scrounger, -4 Flow
I'm not really sure what the best plan is for these guys. Transgress seems like a given to take out a Hydra before it resolves. I think maybe bringing in Galvanic over Flow is correct, as we want instant speed interaction where possible. I think cutting Scrounger might be the right call since we are not looking to go long and it cannot block. The plan is to kill their main threats as they cast them and have some sort of tempo like pressure like Copter while we do so.
Vs. Jeskai Control
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra
OUT: -2 Key, -4 Flow
I like cutting Flow more so than cutting Disintegration. Disintegration can be a pretty backbreaking play when they are trying to flash in an Avacyn to stablize the board. Granted, it is awkward if they do not have a target. Flow generally is just going to go to the face though, so I think the tempo play is more valuable.
Vs. Dynavolt
IN: +4 Transgress, +2 Chandra
OUT: -2 Key, -4 Disintegration
Here, cutting Disintegration is definitely the right call, since they have far fewer targets. If they are running Thing in the Ice, you might still want to use the Jeskai plan.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
It's all good buddy. The "puzzle" was open to all not specifically a task for you. The information you provided will be invaluable and I thank you. Interestingly enough, I had the same thoughts on a few of the suggestions, especially Scrounger vs. RG Energy.
Had our weekly Wednesday standard last night, only 8 participants but LGS still pays $100 credit split between t4 and was able to net a piece for myself going 2-1 losing only to Energy because I drew a mountain a turn too late. Otherwise it was gonna be a blowout! Bombard your Hydra with trigger on stack, next turn flip Heir putting hellbent Priest into play with copter on field already. Boom. Was able to defeat Delerium off the back of 4 "Lightning Bolts" and played against some weird Dynatower/Fog deck.
I made a quick change prior to the event due to Galv's suggestion and replaced Keys with Chandra for the night and put Lost Legacy back in the SB. I dunno, I have a real crush on that card. It can just destroy a lot of win cons. Though I think it may be less effective against Delerium now a days because every deck runs a unique amount of the core creatures. For example, I ripped one last night vs Delerium and promptly named Ish and the dude had ONE in the deck. Was surprising. I will probably put her back in the SB rather than the main. Though she is very good at getting in for shocks, this format is particularly creature heavy and Key will probably benefit the deck more then easily side her in vs. creatureless builds.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
The main pitfall people seem to say this deck has is its heavy reliance on Smuggler's Copter. However, I've been pretty impressed with Heir of Falkenrath over Pia Nalaar, both because it takes some of the heat off the copter and because its a harder hitting evasive threat compared to Pia. Also, I'm mainboarding two copies of Key to the City, which helps even more with the madness triggers and is great for flashing in Bloodhall Priest. Right now with the prevalence of G/B Delirium and U/W Flash, I think 2 on the main and 2 on the side is appropriate.
Also, is Alms of the Vein still a good card? I've been pretty impressed with it and I feel like along with Fiery Temper its the main reason this deck is faster than Mardu. However, I am speculating on cutting it down to three along with cutting one Bloodhall Priest to try a couple copies of Built to Smash. Someone had a good point by saying Built to Smash is a good way to handle Gideon.
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Bloodhall Priest
Non-creature Spells:
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Fiery Temper
4 Alms of the Vein
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Key to the City
Lands:
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
8 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Weaver of Lightning
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Lost Legacy
3 Round FNM last night:
U/W Flash: 2-0 Played against the more aggressive spirit based version but he never had time to stabilize. Alms of the Vein and Key to the City were the best in the match.
G/B Delirium: 0-2 I didn't have the full six copies of Lost Legacy and Transgress the Mind to side in for this match up, but I definitely think that's the best plan going forward. This deck has only one problem for us: Ishkanah Ishkanah Ishkanah. The opponent I played in the third round ran into the same exact problem and lost because of that spider.
Grixis Vehicles: 0-2 Impressive build that was pretty similar to mine except it included Saheeli Rai and Prized Amalgam along with Haunted Dead and Cathartic Reunion. Really felt like a toss-up. I boarded in the Galvanic Bombardments but did not have the [cardWeaver of Lightning[/card]s either. I'm horrible at acquiring sideboard tech.
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Bloodhall Priest
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (12)
2 Key to the City
2 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smouldering Marsh
4 Swamp
9 Mountain
2 Call of the Bloodline
3 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Harsh Scrutiny
4 Incendiary Flow
So far had the following record (noted where opponent dropped or conceded prematurely):
0-2 UW Flash
2-1 Grixis Control
2-0 BGC Delerium
2-0 5-Color Panharmonicon
0-1 RW Artificer (drop)
0-2 GR Energy
1-1 UW Flash (drop)
2-1 GR Energy
2-1 Temur Energy
2-1 GR Energy
1-0 RC Aggro
1-1 UR Spells (drop)
1-2 Mardu Vehicles
Or 7-4-2 overall I suppose.
I'm not sure I liked having less burn overall though, given there were a few games where I just needed to draw some direct damage. There was a couple of games where Heir performed excellently. However, against UW, it felt terrible getting Reflector Mage'd. Mainboard Chandra I liked a lot, but it was somewhat tricky to play vs UW and it felt underwhelming staring down GR's Hydra.
I didn't play enough BG really to get a feel for that matchup. I did play a bit of UW earlier with a different build, and man are they frustrating to play against.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bloodhall Priest
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (12)
2 Key to the City
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smouldering Marsh
4 Swamp
7 Mountain
2 Call of the Bloodline
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Harsh Scrutiny
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Lightning Axe
1 Mountain
More MTGO testing:
Mono Red Artifacts 1-0 (drop)
Mardu Vehicles 1-2
WR Vehicles 1-0 (drop)
GR Energy 2-1
GR Delerium 2-1
WR Vehicles 0-2
UR Summoning 2-1
Apart from some of the usual tilt of the ridiculously unlikely mulligans/draws that MTGO seems to give me, it went OK. 3-2 if you don't count the concedes after game 1, otherwise 5-2. Deck feels solidly Tier 2 though.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I find UW flash not to be that bad as long as we get a reasonably fast draw. Games two and three we have enough removal to kill all their dudes and grind them out with Scrounger/Copter/Chandra. The main thing is not to walk face first into their tricks.
The RG energy matchup got a lot better for me once I started running the To the Slaughter playset in the side for basilisk control purposes.
The deck that gives me problems in game two and three is BG Delirium. They run a lot of threats that require very specific counters. Grim Flayer needs Incendiary Flow to die "on time." Liliana needs a solid creature presence on the board. Mindwrack Demon requires Lightning Axe or Unlicensed Disintegration. Ishkanah has to be plucked from the hand. If Ishkanah hits the deck you basically have to win with burn, since even if you kill the spider it's inevitably getting recycled. It makes it hard to tune the control suite to fit the matchup. Maybe the best solution with them is to go even more suicide aggro.
As far as GB. I find our best tool is Key to the City. Helps against Ishkanah in particular.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Don't get me wrong, you can still play well and lose, but at least we have the tools to compete. I've piloted other decks against UW and had plenty of games where I felt I never had a chance.
I managed my first 5-0 this evening through both BG and UW. I have a brief match report below. The Key to the City seems like a great idea that I will definitely fit into the sideboard going forward. For this event I used the Ganz list from page 9 with this sideboard:
The "control package" is -4 Bomat Courier, -4 Bloodhall Priest, +2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance, +2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers, +4 whatever spell looks good. For the future I will trim a dark-dweller and a slaughter for keys, since I never brought them all in anyways.
Round 1: RB Hasty Aggro (2-1)
Talk about going for it. My opponent was running Village Messenger, Lathnu Hellion, Dust Stalker, and Eldrazi Obligator together with staples like Smuggler's Copter and Unlicensed Disintegration. Looked like a fun list.
Game one I got a smidge flooded and he beat me down. Game two I sided to be more controlling but my hand turned out to be pure gas. I beat him down with Copter and Pia while disintegrating everything he played. Game three was more grindy and Chandra + removal backup proved to be too much for him.
Round 2: UR Control (2-0)
Game one is on the 1-for-1 trade until control dies script. He goes through four removal spells while his life total is pecked down and finally drops a Combustible Gearhulk that is promptly disintegrated, leading to a scoop. Scrapheap Scrounger and Pia are MVPs with persistent beats and persistent apprentice pumps. Game two I stick with the aggro package and get similar results. Biggest opponent tilting moment happened on his turn three when he cast a dynavolt tower leading to my turn three where I transgressed away Radiant Flames. The rest of his hand is a void shatter and goblin dark dwellers. He casts another tower but doesn't manage any other spells as my scrounger and couriers go all the way.
Round 3: UW Flash (2-0)
Game one modo shows me an unlicensed disintegration after I mulligan. I put it on the top (game log confirms) and my first draw is a bomat courier -- I end up winning game one despite massive card disadvantage. I lightning axed his Inspector early on so my couriers could get through, tossing scrounger, and my couriers promptly ate Declaration in Stone. Start of turn three I had Pia and a land in hand, two lands in play, just the scrounger in the grave. Pia comes down. He plays copter, I play topdecked scrounger. He plays Gideon and makes a knight. I burn both my clues with Pia so the knight and copter can't block and kill Gideon. He plays a Selfless Spirit and Revolutionary Rebuffs my hellbent Bloodhall Priest (life total 20-12 my favor). Spirit crews copter, beats, Pia eats Declaration. Thopter swings and another spirit comes down. One Scrounger comes back and I crack a clue. He blocks scrounger with his copter and has to use both spirits to save it as I Fiery Temper in response to the first. He bricks, the Scrounger comes back and attacks. A hellbent priest drops him to 5 and he concedes. We had the same land count at the end of the game, my hand was empty, he had three blanks in hand I guess.
Basically this backed up my theory: when in doubt, go aggro. Your position will rarely improve in game one by sitting back to wait. If you make them have it sometimes they won't. Also, Scrounger can make up for a lot of card disadvantage.
Game two my two leadoff Apprentices eat a Declaration in Stone while Pia's thopter gets vaporized by a reflector mage. The Clue tokens fuel a disintegration on the mage and Pia swings in. Double selfless spirit turn four neutered my dark-dweller in hand. Pia ate another declaration but my opponent declined to attack with his two spirits or his inspector, even with another freshly summoned spirit staying home. The power of the copter on board... I start cracking clues and dig into removal. Flow and two Tempers see his spirits out over the next two turns. Pia crews a Copter and sails into five open mana. Avacyn comes down and gets disintegrated. Next turn, same thing with a six mana lightning axe. He cracks a clue the following turn and concedes.
Disintegration is insanely good. It's worth going a little out of your way to keep it fueled.
Round 4: BG Delirium (2-1)
Game one I'm able to burn him out once he stuffs the early blitz (blitz: he used removal initially and his first creature was a Pilgrim's Eye... I lightning axed it and discarded Temper to the dome). He dropped Ishkanah at ten life but my Bomat Courier refilled my empty hand with five new cards and I was able to whittle him down from there. Temper, temper, disintegration, then Bomat to attack with one more attacker than he had blockers.
Game two was a miserable experience in getting ground out by superior cards.
Game three I put the Couriers back in and went on the aggro plan. I was able to get there through Kalitas, Ishkanah, Noxious Gearhulk, and a Mindwrack Demon thanks to Disintegration, Axe, flying overhead, and another Axe respectively. Scrounger and Copter bring the beats while a couple Flows to the dome get him into the red zone.
I've gotten into the habit if I have Scrounger and Copter turn two I will usually play the Scrounger. If they have open mana and the Scrounger has a reasonable attack I'll just send him instead of crewing. People will take damage from him that they won't from copter. Using removal on Scrounger feels like a waste and I think people overestimate their ability to stabilize against RB aggro.
Round 5: BW Swarm (2-0)
This was a pretty sweet brew. Copters, Inspectors, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, Scroungers, Angel of Invention, and Skysovereign all in the main deck. Game one I'm able to stay on the front foot and keep too much pressure on him to stabilize. One thing that has helped me lately is that I've been more aggressive with my Lightning Axe usage. In this game I used one, tossing a courier, to turn a token + token + inspector block on my apprentice into a wipeout. Horrible value but it kept up the pressure on the board.
Game two he got out to a fast start while both of the transgresses I had speculatively sided in sat in my hand. Fortunately they were tossed later to a copter and lightning axe. I eventually get enough burn to stifle his attack and the scrounger/apprentice/copter/burn team took over the game from there.
Summary
Overall I feel like Andreas Ganz basically got the deck right. It's chock full of cards that are very efficient at killing our opponent. It can interact reasonably well with most other decks, and I personally like a deck with a healthy amount of reach to close out games. There's room to tweak the sideboard but the main deck can go toe to toe with the format staples in my opinion. The fact that the whole thing is about half the price of a playset of Lilianas online is just icing on the cake.
Played some more MTGO. Slightly different build. Probably closer to the Gantz list with some Pias.
Temur Aetherworks 0-2
Mono Black 2-0
Bant Energy 2-1
GB Aetherworks 1-2
GB Delerium 2-1
Aetherworks is a dumb deck.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
1) I've been viciously beaten up by some dude with a straight vampire build. I'm not even sure he ran Copters or anything, just a load of madness, and this is important - that Enchantment for 1 B, which sacrifices itself, you pay 1 life and discard ETC but you kill a dude. That is more or less the key vs. Emrakul off of Aetherworks Marvel. That deck is very stupid btw, and the most stupid thing about it is is that isn't really much of a deck, it's just sticking Aetherworks Marvel into the usual GB mythic spam and using energy producing ramp.
2) The Aehterworks marvel deck is everywhere, mostly because of point 1. What's worse, it's not that Aetherworks Marvel is everywhere, but that GB is everywhere and it's a really bad matchup because most of their cards are mythic and cards which tutor them, or removal. It's very difficult to be able to deal with both Emrakul on turn 3-4 and their regular gameplan of just plonking down ghastly dudes. I have some vague notion that RW has a better game here if it goes that 1WW aura which can mess Emrakul up main, and that's also handy because it can also mess Gearhulks up.
3) Falkenrath Gorgers just stare at Thraben Inspector and don't really do much. Thing is, I'm not in fact sure what exactly does Nerd Ape really do for this deck, either. In RW, I got a lot of wins by sneakily having 4 Built to Last that noone expected which allowed me all sorts of offensive and defensive shennanigans with Bomat Courrier, Nerd Ape, Toolcraft Exemplar and especially with the copter. To tell you the truth, I constantly wish the deck was white just for Built to Last because it's so difficult to not just eat enemy removal and go out of steam. And most things I run into are loaded with removal (and I've played more than one decks which is just nothing but endless removal, 1-2 planeswakers and angels/gearhulks).
4) Between leaving mana open for Bomat Courier and the copter, the deck is awfully slow for an aggro deck. And what Nerd Ape does is kinda-sorta discourage enemy attacking more than himself being agressive. And Scrapheap Scrounger doesn't actually do all that much, there's too many things which remove it from the game. What's not helping is that Built to Smash can't be played defensively, so the difference between it and Built to Last is enormous.
5) Even attempting to play it without the more expensive duals is insane. And the duals themselves are not that good, compared to the RW ones. And don't bother with 4 Aether Hub unless you're really splashing. Actually, if it wasn't so slow and gimmicky and had a cheap way to attack into enemy blockers, I'd go for 4 "3R Exile land or artifact do 2 damage" as the 4 mana curve topper, just to properly screw up all the lazy control decks.
6) I've said it once and I'll say it again, the Copter is just not that great. It's a gimmicky equipment which turns your creature into a flying 3/3, and yes, it does let you loot, but it's a, well, card filtering thing, not a board presence thing, and it can really set your tempo back if you go for it and it eats removal. Which it always does, since everybody is playing Grasp of Darkness and Harnessed Lightning to counter it. It's a very cool card, don't get me wrong, but it feels to me like the deck is trying to fit around it and for me it's not working. In RW it worked much better because I had Servo Exibition (which would also make the Toolcraft Exemplar have first strike, and then Odric could give everyone first strike, and also it made 2 pilots but left 1 mana open on turn 3 to save the damned copter with Built to Last). What it does here is... well, eat removal and it can trigger madness, but it's not like there aren't other things which trigger it too. And triggering it doesn't really help all that often.
7) I really wish I could get my hands on Flame Lash. Yes, it's a Lightning Blast reprint, but the thing with Lightning Blast is that it's a damned fine card and always has been, and it would take Liliana and a few other things out, and you can aim it at the other guys head. I suppose I should just buy the multiple choice 1RR rare. Also, I whish I could get my hands on mardu lands.
8) I really like Bomat Courrier and I really like Insolent Neonate and I'm not sure they should both be in the same deck, or alternatively, that if they're the one-drops that there's room for other ones. Insolent Neonate, oddly, feels better for this sort of deck than the Courier, even though the Courier is a much stronger card overall. What the courier does is refill your hand when it can, which is generically great, and power up Nerd Ape, which isn't all that worth it in RB. What the Neonate does is cycle for no extra mana, get a few points in very often, help you curve out with Madness (trying to do this with the courier is very iffy), safely bury itself for the Scrapheap Scrounger, and can pretty much always activate in response to enemy whatever. Heir to Falkenrath has also been rather great, and would probably be even better if that black +1/+0 indistructible-until-eot thing cost 1 mana and helped against Grasp of Darkness, or pumped for more. Unlicenced Desintegration is THE card, except it doesn't do anything vs. an insanely early Emrakul (really, what were they thinking?) and it requires a big bunch of artifacts to be around.
9) I'm having problems with Key to the City, which is kinda supposed to be the cornerstone of the madness build, but fails to deliver for me. It's because Heir to Falkerath is evasive anyway, and so is the Copter, and so is the Insolent Neonate. Nerd Ape hits for 2, big whoop, Bomat Courrier also isn't hitting for much, Scrapheap Scrounger is worth a card and the 4/4 vampire is worth it but by the time the stars align for him to be out the other guy has Emrakul. Or all your dudes have been killed. Or the guy you make unblockable gets killed mid-attack and the other guy also gains 4 life. Or there's a bunch of 5 powered red and green guys looking at you.
10) So IDK. Maybe I need to build/play it way more like a straight burn deck, or maybe it only works if you have chandra, and I certainly have to get the lands together, but as cool and enticing it is (sank a pretty penny into it allready) it's not really as strong as it kinda feels like it should be.
Sorry about the rambling reply.
Copter isn't exactly the backbreaking warping card everyone seem to think it is, but it is a crucial element to the deck. Some of the most busted turns come from when we are able to do 2-3 things on T3 because of stuff like Fiery Temper off a Copter. Those turn sequences makes the deck briefly feel like a Legacy deck.
Mostly I wanted to comment about Key. I love the card. Interestingly, I do a lot of discarding to it just to get the untap trigger to draw a card. This is the reason why this card is good. I'll discard lands, some early game creatures that are now outclassed, extra Copters and Keys, so I can dig for what I do need. You should think about this line if you want to take full advantage of the card. It also plays really well in a deck running Bloodhall main, since it gives the deck a nice T2-T3 sequence.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
3 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Bloodhall Priest
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Spells (12)
2 Key to the City
2 Incendiary Flow
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Aether Hub
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smouldering Marsh
4 Swamp
8 Mountain
2 Call the Bloodline
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Harsh Scrutiny
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Lightning Axe
3 Weaver of Lightning
Matches
Jund Delerium 2-0
GB Rites 0-2
Mardu Vehicles 2-0
GB Rites 2-0
GC Lands Matter 2-0
Some weird decks tonight. Pretty epic game against Mardu game 2; Call the Bloodline is really a sweet card.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Sinister Concoction!
The guy who ran me over with a RB vampires-madness with barely any artifacts in it ran it main, and then swapped it for Call the Bloodline. I have a feeling that card is rather unappreciated, and I need to get me some of that. Kills all sorts-a critters. I also sincerely wonder if there isn't a more artifacts and less madness heavy build which can make Underhanded Designs work.
For science's sake I'm currently running a build with no Copters and no Inventors Apprentice. In their place I have, don't laugh it's less moronic than it looks:
Insolent Neonate - because he gets in for his 2-3 damage total more often than not, gets that Bloodhall Priest out on turn 3, draws a card if they shoot him, offsets land flood, helps with mana screw, reanimates scrapheap scrounger, walks the dog, does the dishes, you name it.
Olivia's Dragoon - Because he's a dude if he's alone on the board, he's evasive if need be, gets the Bloodhall Priest out on turn 3 in response to the enemy throwing removal at him and regardless of whether there+s a dude on board, and you can also attack with the other dude, too, and as opposed to most other things he lets you dump your hand if you want the Bloodhall Priest to come in with burn or attack with burn and this doesn't cost any extra mana. Yes it's a stoooooopid-looking grizzly bear and the idea that someone would chuck a copter out to put this garbage in is stooooopid, except it seems to roll nicely and I want to see what happens.
Senseless Rage - Again, I took copter out and put this in, wtf? Well, it's a combat trick and noone really sees those coming. The point is that there's Key to the City and there's the Insolent Neonate with his madness, and there's 7 flying dudes in the deck, and there's Bomat Courier who likes to attack and Scrapheap Scrounger who also likes to attack and being able to sic one of them with a +2/+2 out of nowhere is actually rather good, and the fact that it also sticks on the person is also rather nice. If it lets you kill something - great, if it just stick around for 1-2 swings - epic, 4 dmg for 2 mana, what's not to like. If it saves your dude from a 3 dmg removal (bunch of them around) or a -2/-2 sweeper - it already payed for itself, and you also might have time-walked the other guy. So IDK, I can actually see it working, Built to Last is 100% constructed playable, I'm just frustrated enough to see what happens with this.
The main concern is having enough artifacts around for Desintegration, otherwise it's been running rather smoothly so far (in the practice room, which is not the same thing as even a friendly league, but still, 24 lands and the junk noted above and it seems to flow nicely).
Creatures (18)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Bloodhall Priest
Vehicles (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (13)
3 lightning axe
2 Incendiary Flow
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
Lands (23)
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smouldering Marsh
4 Swamp
11 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Key to the City
4 Galvanic Bombardment
1 Incendiary Flow
4 Weaver of Lightning
will try +Heir of Falkenrath -Pia Nalaar. Chandra main is awesome, once it hits the board, its a 3 turn clock/pressure (emblem) on opponents, gets value for Bomats and other 1CMC .....
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Bomat Courier
3 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Olivia's Dragoon
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bloodhall Priest
3 Key to the City
3 Senseless Rage
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Aether Hub
8 Swamp
8 Mountain
I say if you want to get into this archetype in a cheap budgety way start with this (get 4X copies of every card). It might not be the strongest variant, but it's kinda cheap and if you don't get mana screwed it'll beat folks up fine.
EDIT: I swapped around the numbers on Heir to Falkenrath and Olivia's Dragoon, as that's what I'm actually using. Both have their pros and cons, honestly. The sideboard is a rotating thing while I try different stuff and different numbers of existing stuff out.
For the sideboard I have to try various things out yet to be sure. What I'm sure of so far is:
If you're up against a deck with non-numbers based removal, you likely want to take Senseless Rage out because they lose their "save a dude" function. I don't have any Call the Bloodline to try out, but I've had them played against me and it looks fearsome. I beat it with Senseless Rage and fliers because the little bastards can't chump, but still, who's going to play this junk against you?
EDIT: Also, Weaver of Lightning, if you have it, doesn't work with Senseless Rage. On the other hand it's kinda obvious what goes in and what goes out in that case. And if you're bringing in Weaver of Lightning to deal with the enemy copters, and it's in the practice room, you might consider leaving the Senseless Rage in. Just to see if you get to wtfpwn a copter with it and one of your black vampires.
- Against Emrakul, and I suppose also Torrential Gearhulk, and probably the various Angel variants, go Sinister Concoction. Gearhulk you can possibly try to race by adding more direct damage, but I find Aetherworks nonsense on turn 3 a bit impossible to race sensibly, so I opt for this (as it also takes out Kalitas and Mindwrack Deamon and whathave you). I'm not sure what exactly is the best thing to remove.
- I'd be playing Flame Lash against planeswalkers, Liliana especially, and I think I'd be doing much better than I am right now in leagues if I had access to it for this specific reason (also it's a gap closing burn that can also blow up a planeswalker, whats not to like). It appears not to be available for sale on MTGO (does this mean Kaladesh is unredeemable by default???). There's a rare "kill a dude or plaeswalker" thing with awaken from BFZ and To the Slaughter from SOI (I think). Wouldn't mind trying either. Being an old time Oddysey block Chainers Edict player I'd go with the value of Awaken for those late game situations.
- If I had a more solid mana base, I'd run either Blighted Fen or Blighted Gorge or two. Oddysey block tech again. Everybody's kinda expecting to close out the game in 5 turns, but with all the control prancing around with tons of removal and silly 6 mana plans, games tend to drag. And there's decks which are absurdly light on win conditions apart from beating face with a lateish big monster.
- For the mess of go-wide decks, there's the eldrazi -2/-2 1BB thing, which has the obvious downside of being 1BB (and also exiling your own scroungers and scrounger fodder). There's also Biting Rain, which looks good but there isn't anything like Zombie Infestation this madness-block around, so what you'd be casting it off is probably a Neonate or Key to the City. Less budget friendly there's Radiant Flames (which can conveniently go for 3 with Aether Hub) and there's Kozilek's Return which is just too expensive to consider.
- I'm kinda very tempted to have 4X Structural Distortion in the sideboard. If you're going to be on the play and are racing, assuming the Bloodhall Priest gets dropped off madness at turn 3, landing this is pretty good. Later on it also takes out man lands, various 4cc artifacts, gearhulks, and does a bit of damage (occasionally to planeswalkers even).
- With a proper mana base which included the hub and 2 blighted lands, I'd maybe consider Thought Knot Seer. Being able to knock out a board wipe or a win condition in many of these control decks at turn 4 seems like it'd be a great move, even if he eats removal immediately. Dunno how expensive he is, I haven't checked.
- And one last thing for now, yeah - if the lowered artifact count has made Unlicenced Disintegration less great, I'm not exactly certain what the best move is. If you're fine with it being just a Murder in a matchup, it's fine, plenty of decks play a murder. But I'm not sure which 5 artifacts I'd bring in. Well, I am, 1 courier and 4 copter, obviously, but I'm not sure which matchup would justify having them in. The point of this budget experiment is to see how the whole thing works without the copter and inventors apprentice, slay some sacred cows and see about unconsidered cards. You could keep 4X Inventors Apprentice, 4X Copter, 1X Boumat Courrier and 4X Alms of the Vein in the board and bring them in while taking 4X 2mana vampires , 4X Insolent Neonate, 3X Senseless Rage, 1 Bloodhall Priest and one land out and have essetially the standard issue deck, just with 3X madness outlet vampires in place of Pia (and you could keep 2X Pia in the board too). Except IDK what matchup specifically that deck is better against than this one.
I think I'll keep Incendiary Flow in my sideboard and if if feel less mana-intensive burn is what I'm looking for I might replace Desintegration with it. Or something.
- There's probably some cheap artifact destruction I've overlooked somewhere.
So that's the long of it, so far.
Also a few more budget/off the wall considerations and tips:
- One of the reasons the Copter can be a liability is that everyone's running Harnessed Lightning. The real reason to run Harnessed Lightning is actually because it lets you more reliably get your mana fixing out of Aether Hub. The card itself doesn't really fit with the plan of small dudes and burn to the face, or even with being just 2 colors, but it does kill the enemy copter, it's the only reasonable-looking red energy producer which could help this deck with mana issues (which is a big deal, actually), and in case of even just a little energy overflow it can kill 4 toughness dudes which there's a bunch of. Since everyone's running it, it's not budget anymore, and it doesn't really fit into the curve, but if I was going for pure stability I could try 4 of them instead of (gasp!) Licenced Desintegration.
In this case I'd MAYBE try Falkenrath Gorger instead of Bomat Courier. The reason for the last thing is that having a straight dmg dealing 1 drop would possibly be a bit better if there was a 2 mana creature-remover in the deck which you kinda also want to play to fix your mana. I'm not really happy with the plan because I really want to be playing a dude/madness outlet on turn 2. But I can see games where the other guy is on the play and trying to play anything but removal on turn 2 (or keeping mana open for it) will result in terrible things for you.
The problem is that you can sorta get a playset of Bloodhall Priest for 1 Harnessed Lightning, so you should probably be getting that or the lands or the Scrapheap Scroungers instead.
- One card that's budget and off everyone's radar but seems like a cute little metagame choice is Twins of Maurer Estate. I'd say budget replacement for Bloodhall Priest, but the card is specifically interesting because it's REALLY hard to burn off the table (takes a Lightning Axe or a 5 energy Harnessed Lightning) and it survives both Grasp of Darkness (which is everywhere) and that 1BB 3 dmge gain 3 life thing (unless combat happens where you might get tricked into it). The cool thing about it is that it blocks even delirium'd Grim Flayer, which almost nothing at our disposal does (and this is part of why the GB matchup is even harder than it looks, you're almost always forced to spend removal on the big guys, while Grim Flayers just waltz around and fix their plays).
It's a budget junky-looking common, but 3/5 for 3 with flash + whatever effect you get from madness (in this deck it's: "Draw a card", "Target creature gets flying and possibly +1/+1", "Target creature becomes unblockable, and you can also draw a card") IDK, it's respectable. Not for copter variants, obviously because those want a non-madness dude down on turn 3, but for these "black skies" variants, I can see it rolling.
This is also why the copter variants, as strong as they can be, don't really work the best with Bloodhall Priest specifically. The only way Bloodhall Priest lands on turn 3, if copter was out on turn 2, is if you discard it to the copter. But in order for that to happen you have to either:
a) Have had a 1 drop, and then use it to power the copter, which mean it doesn't attack.
b) Get to attack (or possibly block) with the copter, which means not get it hit with removal on T2, which happens fairly often especially post-board.
And that's if you drew the copter, and the only other thing that can get the priest out on turn 3 in the regular build is key to the city. Which also takes a dude being on board on either side, but it's still more reliable. This generally means that there's usually 4 + 2 things in the entire deck which can get the priest down on turn 3, and 4 of those can get disrupted. In the more vampire-centric budget build, your turn 2 guy is somewhat likely to eat a removal, but this usually still leaves the neonate to get the priest down, and in any case there are 14 cards which can get a 3cc madness card out on turn 3.
So in a copter build I wouldn't really bother with Twins of Maurer Estate except if for whatever reason you want to replace Bloodhall Priest with them (maybe you don't have the lands and want less mana screw potential, maybe you're strapped for cash but have copters, maybe you run enough madness outlets besides the copter and maybe 5 toughness works really well for you because of the removal in your meta, who knows). But I'll surely try it in the copterles build just to see what happens. Maybe even as sideboard vs. removal, as having a potentially flash guy with a big ass should be rather nice when the other guy boards in a bunch of removal. I mean, it laughs at Galvanic Lightning.
This deck is more of a "Mardu Midrange Control" than most of the decks presented here, as I'm eschewing several of the 1 drop creatures for a stronger burn package. The deck has played really well as of late, going 3-1 last week for FNM (where I OBLITERATED my foes in my 3 wins) and I hope for some good results for the "Standard Showdown" being played at my local shop tomorrow. Here is my list:
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Veteran Motorist
2 Gisela, the Broken Blade
BURN/REMOVAL
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Collective Defiance
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Anguished Unmaking
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Cultivator's Caravan
PLANESWALKER
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
LANDS
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Shambling Vent
3 Needle Spires
4 Mountain
In thinking about this deck, I find the cards Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Collective Defiance (especially, "escalated" by 1) to be very powerful cards that help control the board state. I find those cards to really be the MVP's of the deck, and my inclusion of those two cards seems to be different than most approaches for this deck. I like that THC makes people's creatures and non-basic lands come into play "stoned"/tapped, while Collective Defiance with 4 to creature and 3 to the Dome is also really powerful in this current Standard. I hope for some good results tomorrow.
One thing I like about this deck is that it is versatile enough in its options, that sideboarding is less necessary. I'm still working on my sideboard in fact, and need to piece together those 15 cards for tomorrow. But I like that the deck has answers for most threats. It may not be as fast as the typical lists being presented here, but I think it's better in long, grind games, with more of a "back end" and burn package for the final bits of damage. And I finally beat a GR Delirium deck last week that has beaten my like 4 times over the last month. So, it's making progress, and it's really fun to play.
On a quick and stupid note - this deck has a very easy time setting up a kill with Triskaidekaphobia. There's random lifegain here and there but one poke from a 1 drop and two hits for three and whoops - the other guy's dead. Any copter deck can do it in this meta, but this one is likely to run Bomat Courier and/or Insolent Neonate, who poke for that important 1 somewhat easily, and this decks can run the Unlicenced Desintegration and the Collective Defiance for board control, which is nice. The funny thing is that the lousy 1 drop is likely to get that one poke in while the 2-X drops are likely to eat removal and the games can get so grindy that even if it doesn't kill the other guy just ticking him lower into burn range is probably fine-ish. Also, this deck can run the Sinister Concoction, too, so the other guy doesn't trick you.
I mean I just had an Aetherworks marvel guy narrowly dodge it with his lifegain thingy, if the marvel hadn't turned exactly that over, he'd have dropped from me having played 3 cards.