Although I'm still not sold on the Inventor, I actually like the Weldfast along with Heart. Pia has been iffy for me but I think she seems strong still yet. It's cool to see Forerunner getting some play too. Incendiary is necessary with the B/G and Mardu decks being so prevalent. I think we can take what we have worked up and combine it along with what they have presented and make something even better.
I personally still really love the Key to the City and Madness elements but I'm not sure if it is ultimately worth it.
Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
The images didn't post but you can still right click and open in new tab but your way works better. Also props for the original post. I hadn't realized you'd been keeping it updated. Looks great.
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Does anyone have any ideas for a budget option replacing Khalitas? This is a secondary deck for fun or if my other deck starts performing poorly; I won't mind a slight power loss.
Any of these sound good?
Round 1 vs Temur Energy - Win. Key to the City did a lot of work in getting my Bloodhall Priest past his blockers, as well as helping in the grind.
Round 2 vs U/B Control - Win. Speed's the name of the game.
Round 3 vs Jund Delirium - Win. Went control mode. Fatal Push really helped.
Round 4 vs U/R Control - Win. Speed and the deck's resilience to removal and board wipes won the day.
before FNM i originally had Borderland Marauder (yes, it is Standard legal) in the deck, then changed it to Forerunner of Slaughter as it can be hasted (as well as other colorless creatures) and is a better blocker, which matters sometimes.
no Heart of Kiran because i'm hesitant to buy now, and if the deck works without that card, i'm happy.
and that's my FNM report. how did it go with your FNMs, guys?
With the uptick of GB at GP Pitt what are the best cards yall have found to be boarded in VS them. Im currently only something close to the PT lists and not on the madness shell which I personally found to be a little clunky and too many moving pieces.
Note that this is tuned to my local meta which is generally more aggro / creature based rather than control and combo.
Game Day #1 - 4 Rounds / Top 8
Round 1 vs G/B - Loss
Round 2 vs Jank - Win
Round 3 vs Bad Saheeli - Win
Round 4 - Draw into Top 8
Round 5 - Same matchup as Round 1 - Win
(I gotta tell this side story of my best play I've done in a long time here: I targeted his 4 drop trampler with Push before Revolt was active, sac a Courier discarding my hand, Madness casting Bloodhall, triggering it to deal 2 damage to his man land, I got the 3 cards to hand from the Bomat, the Push killed the four drop and I blocked his other creature leaving me at 2 and allowing me to win next turn)
Round 6 - G/B Delirium - Loss
Super hard matchup and a solid player equaled my downfall and 4th place.
Game Day #2
Round 1 vs R/G Energy - Win
Round 2 vs R/G Energy - Win
Round 3 vs U/B Control - Win
Round 4 - Draw into Top 8 (also top seed)
Round 5 vs Bad G/B - Win (Nix from the SB was a life saver)
Round 6 vs U/B Control (Rematch) - Win (Hard matchup but I was too fast and took it 2-1)
Round 7 vs G/B - Win (Just steamrolled through hyper-aggressively and won easily)
Key to the City is the engine that allows this deck to function, but Bloodhall was an all star all weekend; she absolutely won me so many games. Having a ton of removal allowed me to win vs the creature decks and being fast allowed me to get past the control. Thankfully I didn't have to face the Reservoir player.
Takeaways:
I need to get a 2nd Chandra.
Pia is a bad card. I need to accept this and quit trying to force it in.
I need to test with some type of vehicle, probably Kirin.
Scrapheap was amazing all weekend and I understood even more all the intricacies and how to fully utilize him.
Bomat is really good. It may not always work but if it gains you 2-3 cards, you will generally win.
I don't think Inventor's Apprentice is good enough and am glad to not be playing it.
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Game1: I have a super slow start and he gets 9 power on board turn 3 and then turn 4 elder deep fiends me and turn 5 elder deep fiends me.
Game2: I have a really aggressive hand and he doesnt see a kozileks return all game so he isnt able to board wipe me at any given time.
Game3: He Mulls to 5 which is generally never going to be a good game, which is wasnt.
Round 2: GB Constrictor (1-0)
Game 1: She plays removal on turns 2 and 3, I kill her snake on turn 4. and she doesnt really get going and im able to do my game plan.
Game 2: She gets on board a good bit sooner but removal spells are able to deal with her threats. Gonti grabbed me a liliana which +1'd and then got back two dudes. Which was sweet.
Round 3: 4color Saheeli (2-0)
Game1: I mull to 5 and have a good start with apprentice into bomat. He has servant into whirler so bomat didnt do anyhting all game long and I felt sad as he comboed me.
Game2: His turn to mull to 5 and well yea we have talked about how this goes before. Especially whenever I transgress his linvala that he could cast next turn for max value
Game3: We both keep 7. This game Gonti shined hard as hell. My opp also just wasnt able to deal with chandra who ulited. And gonti provided the spells to kill him on my turn
Round 4: IDK (3-0)
We Draw
Round 5: IDK (3-0-1)
We Draw
Going into top 8 im (3-0-2) and i sit into 4th place which means I get to be on the play at least in my first match.
Top 8: Jeskai Saheeli
Game1: I go Apprentice into Bomat x2. And he just really isnt able to answer them at all. There was a few other guys along the way that he did answer.
Game2: Kinda the same game except he tries to go for the combo and I just shock saheeli.
Top 4: Mardu Vehcicles
Game 1: He gains like 7 life due to Harvester but I manage to draw enough removal to grind him out of that game.
Game 2: I mull to 6. He has a super aggressive 2 land hand, and my hand is a little clunky with only being able to play 1 spell per turn and being stuck on 3 mana.
Game 3: He starts off pretty aggressive at first and things start to slow down to a stalled out board state. I draw a few too many pia nalaars which wouldve been better as any other creature. He draws a few more guys than me, I draw 2 lands in a row. And dont really see any sideboard cards.
So changes going forwards are currently
-2 Red Expertise in the board
+1 Release the Gremlins
+1 Aethersphere Harvester
Thats all for now as I find them to be a little bit win more and gonti has been quite good.
I'm somewhat new to the deck and liko others here have been disappointed by pia nalar thus far. What do you guys think of Eternal Scourge as a 2 of? It synergizes well with scrapheap scrounger if it dies in combat and can prove to be just as annoying to remove. It also has that 3 power for heart. It does suffer from being easily managed by a ballista though.
Only time i've ever been disappointed by pia is when i see all 3 of them in a game that isnt long. They are amazing vs control, she crews heart of kiran on curve, her abilities are all relevant, and getting a flier is also pretty big IMO.
Maybe its not right to play 3 of her, but Im 100% never going below 2 unless something comes out that is just way better than her.
I used this version to win a gameday Ajani playmat, packed it in at another store's gameday tournament in the final so my friend could take home the mat for his son, and won Saturday's Grand Prix Trial for Richmond. All in all, a pretty successful couple of weeks.
Saturday I settled on a somewhat unique sideboarding strategy. In my one loss of the tournament against Mardu Vehicles, I boarded out my Chandra's and Pia Nalaars to get quicker with Fatal Push, Incendiary Flow, and the expertise. I did this because in the first game I mana flooded massively. In the second game I flooded even worse, ending with 8 lands in play and two in my hand with only 4-5 spells I could cast. It was horrible, so I began (aggressively) sideboarding out 2 mountains because I was pissed. Funny thing was, it never hurt me and actually worked out quite well. In fact, I played the same Mardu Vehicles deck in the final and crushed him 2-0.
Now, sideboarding out two lands might seem a little aggressive, but I think going lower and siding out one land is very viable. For example, against Mardu vehicles I would take out 3 Chandras, 2 Pia Nalaars, 1 Mountain and add in 3 Fatal Push, 1 Incendiary Flow, and 2 Release the Gremlins. Instead of adding a land and trying to go bigger, I play to our strengths and try to be even more aggressive and faster with better removal and some bomb answers. Against control should be obvious: Take out the Shocks and Incendiary Flows for 4 Transgress the Mind and 2 Pick the Brains (though I am not sold on the Pick the Brains).
Is anyone else sideboarding this way? I know most of the stock lists are going bigger with Ob Nixilis, Reignited and Kalitas, etc., but I find this way fits me better. Plus I don't have any Kalitas!
As far as decklists, Forerunner of Slaughter and Weldfast Engineer are both great cards and really make this list solid. The +2,+0 of Weldfast is hugely relevant, especially on an Thopter token, "Bro"mat Courier, or Heart of Kiran, and Forerunner's ability to give creatures haste (Heart of Kiran the turn you play it) helps us come out of nowhere. This deck is more fun to play than I thought it would be and is much more consistent without trying to jam Madness in with sub-optimal cards.
Oh, and I will be replacing a mountain with the fourth Smoldering Marsh since I am not trying to go bigger and putting a land in the board.
Pick the Brain has been pretty bad for me and usually just an expensive Transgress the Mind, so I will probably go back to Lost Legacy or something else there.
Pick the Brain has been pretty bad for me and usually just an expensive Transgress the Mind, so I will probably go back to Lost Legacy or something else there.
I like your list a lot and it's where im starting for my deck, so far my only tweak has been to swap a chandra for a skysovereign, it's done well so far.
Lost Legacy can't hit artifacts, so you cannot get Torrential Gearhulk with it, which is a prime target.
what is your usual sideboard for BG and mardu?
To be honest with you, I played the madness version, the zombie version, and a mix up of the two before moving to this. I have not squared off against BG with it yet, though there are a couple BG decks being played off and on at the stores I go to.
Conventional wisdom from the past was to sideboard out Bomat Courier for these match ups, but it seems to me that this just makes Inventor's Apprentice worse unless you have a Scrapheap Scrounger for Turn 2 and recursion. In fact, late game when you have no hand, a top decked "Bro" just reads Pay 2: Cycle this card, which can be useful.
To sideboard for this match up, we need to look at a few things because there are so many versions of BG.
1. Do they run Scrapheap Scrounger? If so, we definitely want the fourth copy of Incendiary Flow.
2. Do they run a lot of creatures with 3-butts or higher? Shock then becomes much worse.
3. Do we want to go under them? Chandra has been seen as a great card against BG, but my experience against other aggressive decks is that she often serves as removal and then soaks up some damage on her way to the graveyard. With the way I am sideboarding, I would take her out for the Incendiary Flow if relevant, some number of Fatal Push/To the Slaughter.
4. Is this a match up where the "Go Bigger" package is better? In my mind, this is battling them on their turf and we don't have access to things like Verdurous Gear hulk. It seems like a losing battle to me.
Chandra is an excellent card against control and durdle decks as she can come down when they are forced to tap out to deal with our early threats. She can just take over a game like that and her ultimate is how I defeated the one control deck I faced last weekend in both games of the match. Against other aggro decks, she is not as good because when you are winning and have a solid board presence, you don't need to worry about keeping her alive. We want to be swinging and crewing Heart of Kiran with no worry that she will be killed on the crackback.
My board for Mardu Vehicles was:
- 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- 2 Pia Nalaar
- 1 Mountain
+ 1 Incendiary Flow
+ 2 Release the Gremlins
+ 3 Fatal Push
and when I was going crazy last weekend and boarding out 2 mountains, I also added in the To the Slaughter.
Against GB I would go:
- 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- 1 Pia Nalaar
- 1 Mountain
+ 3 Fatal Push
+ 1 Incendiary Flow
+ 1 To the Slaughter
I don't know if this is correct or not. Results may vary, but it seems to be working for me!
Yesterday i tried my version of the deck which uses a few hope of ghirapur which actually turn out pretty good when paired with weldfast. Hope worked nice as an anti counter card if i had something i want to play and not get countered swing with hope and then sack if it hit to make my next spell uncounterable or they wast a burn killing a 1/1 flyer. The main problem deck I ran into was UR spell with the torrential gearhulk and tower. Any ideas about side boarding against UR spell?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Won FNM this week, though it was a smaller one with a lot of people bringing "rogue" decks this time around. I did beat Grixis Control in the final round, which was very satisfying. Lost game 1 after getting him extremely low, won game 2 in a tight one, and crushed him with 2 lands in game 3 when he stumbled on his three color manabase.
Anyway, I have a couple of takeaways.
1. Lost Legacy is unnecessary. I put this in to replace Pick the Brain because I was never able to reliably achieve Delirium. I might keep it in for CopyCat, but this would be one of my first cuts.
2. To the Slaughter is also tough to get the value out of for the same reason as #1. Also prime to be cut. This gives me up to three slots to further tweak match ups.
3. My sideboard plan against Grixis was:
-3 Shock
-3 Incendiary Flow
+4 Transgress the Mind
+2 Release the Gremlins (Gearhulks and Dynavolt Towers)
This is also how I would sideboard for UR with Gearhulks and Dynavolt Towers.
I still think we are overvaluing Inventor's Apprentice but how has it been doing for you honestly?
Lost Legacy is only good vs the combo and we have alternatives like Shock that also help in the mirror and such so it's definitely replaceable since Cat is falling off somewhat.
To the Slaughter is great though. It's our only answer to Planeswalkers and Hydra and we do have the ability to hit Delirium occasionally.
Kari Zev's seems odd. What matchup do you bring it in for?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How can we truly be free, if we are held in the bondage of clothing?
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
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We had one deck at 6-4:
We had two at 8-2:
So for this list it seems like the notable inclusions were:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Inventor's Apprentice
Forerunner of Slaughter
Pia Nalaar
Weldfast Engineer
Incendiary Flow
Heart of Kiran
Although I'm still not sold on the Inventor, I actually like the Weldfast along with Heart. Pia has been iffy for me but I think she seems strong still yet. It's cool to see Forerunner getting some play too. Incendiary is necessary with the B/G and Mardu decks being so prevalent. I think we can take what we have worked up and combine it along with what they have presented and make something even better.
I personally still really love the Key to the City and Madness elements but I'm not sure if it is ultimately worth it.
Thoughts?
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (19)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
Sorcery (3)
3 Incendiary Flow
Instant (8)
3 Shock
1 Lightning Axe
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Implement of Combustion
2 Heart of Kiran
Land (23)
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smoldering Marsh
10 Mountain
6 Swamp
1 Smoldering Marsh
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Fatal Push
2 Release the Gremlins
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (22)
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Weldfast Engineer
4 Incendiary Flow
Instant (5)
2 Shock
3 Unlicensed Disintegration
Artifact (4)
4 Heart of Kiran
Land (23)
5 Swamp
10 Mountain
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fatal Push
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Key to the City
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Voldaren Pariah
4 Haunted Dead
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Cryptbreaker
1 Distended Mindbender
Sorcery (3)
3 Cathartic Reunion
4 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
Artifact (2)
2 Key to the City
Land (22)
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
9 Swamp
5 Mountain
2 Distended Mindbender
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Shock
2 Lost Legacy
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Fatal Push
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Release the Gremlins
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (21)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
3 Bomat Courier
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Weldfast Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
2 Incendiary Flow
Instant (7)
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Shock
Artifact (4)
4 Heart of Kiran
Land (23)
5 Swamp
10 Mountain
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
1 Swamp
2 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Fatal Push
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Transgress the Mind
So, it is evident that Heart + Chandra is a good combination going forward.
Edit: Updated the main page, btw.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Bomat Courier
4 Falkenrath Gorger
4 Village Messenger
4 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells 6
4 Shock
2 Chandra's Pyrohelix
Artifacts 5
2 Sky Skiff
3 Aethersphere Harvester
Lands 21
21 Mountain
1 Dual Shot
2 Chandra's Pyrohelix
3 Incendiary Flow
1 Invigorated Rampage
2 Tears of Valakut
1 Wrangle
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
3 Impetuous Devils
// 7 Artifact
3 Key to the City
4 Heart of Kiran
// 18 Creature
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bomat Courier
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Weldfast Engineer
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Fiery Temper
4 Fatal Push
// 2 Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
// 22 Land
3 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins
10 Mountain
5 Swamp
This is my current testing list for the record as well.
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Any of these sound good?
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Anyway, let us know how you go.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Went 4-0 with this list.
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Pia Nalaar
3 Bloodhall Priest
Spells 16
3 Shock
4 Fiery temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Key to the City
2 Chandra, Torch of Definace
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
5 Swamp
9 Mountain
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Fatal Push
3 Incendiary Flow
1 Shock
2 Release the Gremlins
2 Lathnu Hellion
Round 1 vs Temur Energy - Win. Key to the City did a lot of work in getting my Bloodhall Priest past his blockers, as well as helping in the grind.
Round 2 vs U/B Control - Win. Speed's the name of the game.
Round 3 vs Jund Delirium - Win. Went control mode. Fatal Push really helped.
Round 4 vs U/R Control - Win. Speed and the deck's resilience to removal and board wipes won the day.
before FNM i originally had Borderland Marauder (yes, it is Standard legal) in the deck, then changed it to Forerunner of Slaughter as it can be hasted (as well as other colorless creatures) and is a better blocker, which matters sometimes.
no Heart of Kiran because i'm hesitant to buy now, and if the deck works without that card, i'm happy.
and that's my FNM report. how did it go with your FNMs, guys?
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/5sc9rn/standardpptq_finals_with_rb_aggro/
Only change ive done so far is replace the 4th engineer with the 4th forerunner.
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
4 Weldfast Engineer
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Heart of Kiran
1 Aethsworn Harvester
4 Swamp
10 Mountain
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
60 Cards
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fatal Push
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Aethersworn Harvester
1 Release the Gremlins
3 Transgress the Mind
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I played FNM, and 2 Game Days. Although I slightly edited the deck each day, this is the final iteration:
4 Bomat Courier
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Bloodhall Priest
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Key to the City
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Fiery Temper
4 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Axe
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
6 Swamp
1 Lightning Axe
2 To the Slaughter
2 Shock
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Release the Gremlins
2 Lost Legacy
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Alms of the Vein
1 Collective Brutality
Note that this is tuned to my local meta which is generally more aggro / creature based rather than control and combo.
Game Day #1 - 4 Rounds / Top 8
Round 1 vs G/B - Loss
Round 2 vs Jank - Win
Round 3 vs Bad Saheeli - Win
Round 4 - Draw into Top 8
Round 5 - Same matchup as Round 1 - Win
(I gotta tell this side story of my best play I've done in a long time here: I targeted his 4 drop trampler with Push before Revolt was active, sac a Courier discarding my hand, Madness casting Bloodhall, triggering it to deal 2 damage to his man land, I got the 3 cards to hand from the Bomat, the Push killed the four drop and I blocked his other creature leaving me at 2 and allowing me to win next turn)
Round 6 - G/B Delirium - Loss
Super hard matchup and a solid player equaled my downfall and 4th place.
Game Day #2
Round 1 vs R/G Energy - Win
Round 2 vs R/G Energy - Win
Round 3 vs U/B Control - Win
Round 4 - Draw into Top 8 (also top seed)
Round 5 vs Bad G/B - Win (Nix from the SB was a life saver)
Round 6 vs U/B Control (Rematch) - Win (Hard matchup but I was too fast and took it 2-1)
Round 7 vs G/B - Win (Just steamrolled through hyper-aggressively and won easily)
Key to the City is the engine that allows this deck to function, but Bloodhall was an all star all weekend; she absolutely won me so many games. Having a ton of removal allowed me to win vs the creature decks and being fast allowed me to get past the control. Thankfully I didn't have to face the Reservoir player.
Takeaways:
I need to get a 2nd Chandra.
Pia is a bad card. I need to accept this and quit trying to force it in.
I need to test with some type of vehicle, probably Kirin.
Scrapheap was amazing all weekend and I understood even more all the intricacies and how to fully utilize him.
Bomat is really good. It may not always work but if it gains you 2-3 cards, you will generally win.
I don't think Inventor's Apprentice is good enough and am glad to not be playing it.
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Pia Nalaar
3 Weldfast Engineer
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Heart of Kiran
1 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 Swamp
10 Mountain
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering Marsh
60 Cards
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fatal Push
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Release the Gremlins
3 Transgress the Mind
Round 1: UR Emerge (0-0)
Game1: I have a super slow start and he gets 9 power on board turn 3 and then turn 4 elder deep fiends me and turn 5 elder deep fiends me.
Game2: I have a really aggressive hand and he doesnt see a kozileks return all game so he isnt able to board wipe me at any given time.
Game3: He Mulls to 5 which is generally never going to be a good game, which is wasnt.
Round 2: GB Constrictor (1-0)
Game 1: She plays removal on turns 2 and 3, I kill her snake on turn 4. and she doesnt really get going and im able to do my game plan.
Game 2: She gets on board a good bit sooner but removal spells are able to deal with her threats. Gonti grabbed me a liliana which +1'd and then got back two dudes. Which was sweet.
Round 3: 4color Saheeli (2-0)
Game1: I mull to 5 and have a good start with apprentice into bomat. He has servant into whirler so bomat didnt do anyhting all game long and I felt sad as he comboed me.
Game2: His turn to mull to 5 and well yea we have talked about how this goes before. Especially whenever I transgress his linvala that he could cast next turn for max value
Game3: We both keep 7. This game Gonti shined hard as hell. My opp also just wasnt able to deal with chandra who ulited. And gonti provided the spells to kill him on my turn
Round 4: IDK (3-0)
We Draw
Round 5: IDK (3-0-1)
We Draw
Going into top 8 im (3-0-2) and i sit into 4th place which means I get to be on the play at least in my first match.
Top 8: Jeskai Saheeli
Game1: I go Apprentice into Bomat x2. And he just really isnt able to answer them at all. There was a few other guys along the way that he did answer.
Game2: Kinda the same game except he tries to go for the combo and I just shock saheeli.
Top 4: Mardu Vehcicles
Game 1: He gains like 7 life due to Harvester but I manage to draw enough removal to grind him out of that game.
Game 2: I mull to 6. He has a super aggressive 2 land hand, and my hand is a little clunky with only being able to play 1 spell per turn and being stuck on 3 mana.
Game 3: He starts off pretty aggressive at first and things start to slow down to a stalled out board state. I draw a few too many pia nalaars which wouldve been better as any other creature. He draws a few more guys than me, I draw 2 lands in a row. And dont really see any sideboard cards.
So changes going forwards are currently
-2 Red Expertise in the board
+1 Release the Gremlins
+1 Aethersphere Harvester
Thats all for now as I find them to be a little bit win more and gonti has been quite good.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Maybe its not right to play 3 of her, but Im 100% never going below 2 unless something comes out that is just way better than her.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Weldfast Engineer
2 Pia Nalaar
Spells (15)
3 Shock
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Heart of Kiran
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Smoldering Marsh
10 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Pick the Brain
2 Release the Gremlins
1 Incendiary Flow
3 Fatal Push
1 To the Slaughter
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
I used this version to win a gameday Ajani playmat, packed it in at another store's gameday tournament in the final so my friend could take home the mat for his son, and won Saturday's Grand Prix Trial for Richmond. All in all, a pretty successful couple of weeks.
Saturday I settled on a somewhat unique sideboarding strategy. In my one loss of the tournament against Mardu Vehicles, I boarded out my Chandra's and Pia Nalaars to get quicker with Fatal Push, Incendiary Flow, and the expertise. I did this because in the first game I mana flooded massively. In the second game I flooded even worse, ending with 8 lands in play and two in my hand with only 4-5 spells I could cast. It was horrible, so I began (aggressively) sideboarding out 2 mountains because I was pissed. Funny thing was, it never hurt me and actually worked out quite well. In fact, I played the same Mardu Vehicles deck in the final and crushed him 2-0.
Now, sideboarding out two lands might seem a little aggressive, but I think going lower and siding out one land is very viable. For example, against Mardu vehicles I would take out 3 Chandras, 2 Pia Nalaars, 1 Mountain and add in 3 Fatal Push, 1 Incendiary Flow, and 2 Release the Gremlins. Instead of adding a land and trying to go bigger, I play to our strengths and try to be even more aggressive and faster with better removal and some bomb answers. Against control should be obvious: Take out the Shocks and Incendiary Flows for 4 Transgress the Mind and 2 Pick the Brains (though I am not sold on the Pick the Brains).
Is anyone else sideboarding this way? I know most of the stock lists are going bigger with Ob Nixilis, Reignited and Kalitas, etc., but I find this way fits me better. Plus I don't have any Kalitas!
As far as decklists, Forerunner of Slaughter and Weldfast Engineer are both great cards and really make this list solid. The +2,+0 of Weldfast is hugely relevant, especially on an Thopter token, "Bro"mat Courier, or Heart of Kiran, and Forerunner's ability to give creatures haste (Heart of Kiran the turn you play it) helps us come out of nowhere. This deck is more fun to play than I thought it would be and is much more consistent without trying to jam Madness in with sub-optimal cards.
Oh, and I will be replacing a mountain with the fourth Smoldering Marsh since I am not trying to go bigger and putting a land in the board.
Pick the Brain has been pretty bad for me and usually just an expensive Transgress the Mind, so I will probably go back to Lost Legacy or something else there.
I like your list a lot and it's where im starting for my deck, so far my only tweak has been to swap a chandra for a skysovereign, it's done well so far.
Lost Legacy can't hit artifacts, so you cannot get Torrential Gearhulk with it, which is a prime target.
what is your usual sideboard for BG and mardu?
Conventional wisdom from the past was to sideboard out Bomat Courier for these match ups, but it seems to me that this just makes Inventor's Apprentice worse unless you have a Scrapheap Scrounger for Turn 2 and recursion. In fact, late game when you have no hand, a top decked "Bro" just reads Pay 2: Cycle this card, which can be useful.
To sideboard for this match up, we need to look at a few things because there are so many versions of BG.
1. Do they run Scrapheap Scrounger? If so, we definitely want the fourth copy of Incendiary Flow.
2. Do they run a lot of creatures with 3-butts or higher? Shock then becomes much worse.
3. Do we want to go under them? Chandra has been seen as a great card against BG, but my experience against other aggressive decks is that she often serves as removal and then soaks up some damage on her way to the graveyard. With the way I am sideboarding, I would take her out for the Incendiary Flow if relevant, some number of Fatal Push/To the Slaughter.
4. Is this a match up where the "Go Bigger" package is better? In my mind, this is battling them on their turf and we don't have access to things like Verdurous Gear hulk. It seems like a losing battle to me.
Chandra is an excellent card against control and durdle decks as she can come down when they are forced to tap out to deal with our early threats. She can just take over a game like that and her ultimate is how I defeated the one control deck I faced last weekend in both games of the match. Against other aggro decks, she is not as good because when you are winning and have a solid board presence, you don't need to worry about keeping her alive. We want to be swinging and crewing Heart of Kiran with no worry that she will be killed on the crackback.
My board for Mardu Vehicles was:
- 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- 2 Pia Nalaar
- 1 Mountain
+ 1 Incendiary Flow
+ 2 Release the Gremlins
+ 3 Fatal Push
and when I was going crazy last weekend and boarding out 2 mountains, I also added in the To the Slaughter.
Against GB I would go:
- 3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- 1 Pia Nalaar
- 1 Mountain
+ 3 Fatal Push
+ 1 Incendiary Flow
+ 1 To the Slaughter
I don't know if this is correct or not. Results may vary, but it seems to be working for me!
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb
Anyway, I have a couple of takeaways.
1. Lost Legacy is unnecessary. I put this in to replace Pick the Brain because I was never able to reliably achieve Delirium. I might keep it in for CopyCat, but this would be one of my first cuts.
2. To the Slaughter is also tough to get the value out of for the same reason as #1. Also prime to be cut. This gives me up to three slots to further tweak match ups.
3. My sideboard plan against Grixis was:
-3 Shock
-3 Incendiary Flow
+4 Transgress the Mind
+2 Release the Gremlins (Gearhulks and Dynavolt Towers)
This is also how I would sideboard for UR with Gearhulks and Dynavolt Towers.
So here is my current decklist:
4 Bomat Courier
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Forerunner of Slaughter
4 Weldfast Engineer
2 Pia Nalaar
Spells (15)
3 Shock
3 Incendiary Flow
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Heart of Kiran
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smoldering March
9 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Release the Gremlins
1 Incendiary Flow
3 Fatal Push
2 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Lost Legacy (Considering alternatives)
1 To the Slaughter (Considering alternatives)
Lost Legacy is only good vs the combo and we have alternatives like Shock that also help in the mirror and such so it's definitely replaceable since Cat is falling off somewhat.
To the Slaughter is great though. It's our only answer to Planeswalkers and Hydra and we do have the ability to hit Delirium occasionally.
Kari Zev's seems odd. What matchup do you bring it in for?
Current Decks
Standard / Type 2
BRMidrange
"What kind of ability would say "counters black spells" on it? "If a Rigger you control would assemble a Contraption, it counters black spells instead"? "
-Mark Gottlieb