dont know if it has been mentioned already but,
isn't kozilek, the great distortion a great fit for this deck. even as a one 1 of should be fine since you can tutor for it.
at some point during the game when you have CC available you search for kozilek and cast it.
then cast seasons past and fill your hand. then at end step sculpt your hand to be able to counter everything the opponents cast.
mana base might need to inlclude 2 wastes but that should not be hard to do with Nissa's Renewal
Needing BB early for Grasp of Darkness makes including Wastes a liability, so Kozilek just isn't worth the hit to the mana base.
The titans just aren't worth it. Tapping out just to have them get hit by Declaration in Stone is going to feel REALLY bad.
I've been running Grip of Desilaton as a 1 of to handle man lands and otherwise pesky creatures. It fills a spot that is open in the Past loop and is an auto 2 for 1.
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
Tireless Tracker is great but I have the same thoughts as others were it just eats removal.I prefer to have mana up to kill things when I would be casting him. Also dies to Languish.
Ob seems like a good include to me. It does everything this deck wants. It's also easy to cast off of Petition.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I think the strain on the mana is too much to include Kozilek, but it would be pretty hard to declaration in stone a Kozilek because of his ability to counter things based on cmc. This deck naturally has a lot of varied cmcs. My big problem with him is that he doesn't actually win the game as quickly as ulamog. I don't like either of them since they don't do anything in the early or mid game.
I've been winning a lot of control mirrors in a timely manner with damnable pact lately. Haven't really missed the 4th read the bones much. I still want more data, but for now it seems fine.
I have another PPTQ to go to next weekend, so I think I need to focus on tuning for the Bant Company matchup. I faced it 5 times out of 9 matches last weekend, so it clearly is quite popular in the central Texas area.
This makes our discard and sweepers instant speed. I'm testing this as a 3 of in my BG build. If I need a brain in a jar I can petition for it, cast and activate it with the mana floating.
Languish on attack phase? Yes, please. Read the Bones EoT? fine.
I've been running Grip of Desilaton as a 1 of to handle man lands and otherwise pesky creatures. It fills a spot that is open in the Past loop and is an auto 2 for 1.
Im going to include this as well! Good idea, great way to take out man lands!
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
I found the same.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Thinking the same thing, I thought about doing Plated Crusher, hexproof trample 7/6...not sure if main or side
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
I couldnt have said it any better, but I am wondering what to swap him out for, I guess Erobos Titan as stated earlier but not sure if thats better or not.
I've been struggling against Goggles decks and Tutelage/Visions, I'm testing Reclaiming Vines as an answer that I can run in the main deck that will never be dead. It's a bit slow and competes with Languish/Kalitas for the 4cmc slot but it seems like the best way to have a chance in game 1. With all the manlands in standard, the floor seems like it might be high enough. Even humans decks have Always Watching.
Personally, I wouldn't run it main or side. Yes, it hits more targets than Naturalize would, and yes, we can get large amounts of lands into play; but 2GG to destroy 1 target... If you wanted a Creeping Mold effect, World Breaker I feel would be a better choice. Has the same targets, Exiles instead of destroys, isn't killed by 99% of removal in the format, is huge, can recur itself, etc... I personally wouldn't run either one, but if you were to pick an effect like that, and you're already willing to pay 4 to do it, you might as well bump it up and play a back-breaker.
...and Tutelage isnt really a deck you need to maindeck anything for since that matchup wont come up that often.
I actually played against 3 of them last night. Two were UR, one was Esper. I won 1 match of the three. I don't know if the deck is becoming more popular, or if it's a 'budget deck' so people are building it more online, but I have played against it too much already. There's a few things I noticed that makes the matchup pretty terrible:
* They run almost 0 creatures. Blanks 90% of our removal.
* We are almost a mono-colored deck. Thank goodness we run so many lands or else we would get milled 4+ every draw, rather than 2.
* Discard is only good in the first 2-3 turns to try and stop Tutelage. After they have 3 mana out, a topdecked Tutelage is going to hit play and stay there.
* Having silver bullets and GY recursion is good and bad vs this type of deck. There have been quite a few games where he milled both my Season's Past. At that point, we have no more advantage than any other deck. It's great that they load up our GY, but if they mill away the only recursion spells we play, what does it matter. Same goes with a scenario like the one mentioned above. You have a maindecked Reclaiming Vines, and they mill it. If you're lucky enough to not have your Seasons Pasts milled, and you can then recur the Vines, great. From play experience, it's better to have a lot of answers vs that deck, rather than a silver bullet.
Now, I did get the hang of the matchup by the end of my Tutelage Gauntlet, and I have to say that (obviously) Naturalize is great, but that Gaea's Revenge is game winning vs Tutelage. In my best games against them, all I did was side out 90% of my removal, added every piece of discard, Kalitas, Gaea's Revenge, and actually Dead Weight (seems silly, but I boarded in Pick the Brain, and since we get milled, I figure that the Dead Weight would help me get Delirium faster). I played all my discard in the first X turns, tried to ramp as fast as I could and played Gaea's Revenge as fast as possible. They LITERALLY HAVE NO ANSWER TO THIS CARD. No blockers, and all their removal is non-green. I can attack 3 times faster than they can mill my deck away. The only game I lost with this mentality was one where both Revenges were milled, along with both Seasons Past. At that point, I was trying to attack them as much as I could with Ashaya tokens and Hissing Quagmires. Still lost thought.
So, I wouldn't dismiss the Tutelage decks. I think they're budget enough that a lot of people can build it, but not make it to top 8... What does that mean? you'll see it often, but you'll never read about them in the top 8. So, I think you do need to be prepared for it, even if it's not that great.
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dont know if it has been mentioned already but,
isn't kozilek, the great distortion a great fit for this deck. even as a one 1 of should be fine since you can tutor for it.
If I was gonna pick a Titan to run, I'd prob go with Ulamog, for sheer winning power alone. 10/10, Double vindicate, Indestructible, with a mill win strategy, I think, is better than the 12/12 Menace with Draw and Countering abilities. Yes, you can protect Kozilek by discarding a card with CC = the removal spell, but if you don't have that CC card in hand, he's vulnerable to any W or B removal spell. I also like the fact that they both cost the same, but Ulamog doesn't NEED colorless to play. IDK, I think I'd go with Ulamog over Kozilek if I were to pick one.
-Yawg
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I just read the article and he never mentioned why it got the axe. He mainly said that the sideboard was not enough.
We all know BG Control has spells to deal with different threats. I just adjusted my sidebaord to fair better against creatureless decks. (this is mtgo, after all)
I'll post a list as soon as I'm happy with the looks. Brain in the jar worked wonders for me.
You drop it whenever and keep activating. Along the way you'll hit a couple of good spells. Languish at instant speed could possibly improve our matchup against bant company. That along with Infinite Obliteration/Ruinous Path in response to collected. Season's Past at their end step after resolving a Nissa's Renewal is super.
I've been running Grip of Desilaton as a 1 of to handle man lands and otherwise pesky creatures. It fills a spot that is open in the Past loop and is an auto 2 for 1.
Im going to include this as well! Good idea, great way to take out man lands!
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
I found the same.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Thinking the same thing, I thought about doing Plated Crusher, hexproof trample 7/6...not sure if main or side
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
I couldnt have said it any better, but I am wondering what to swap him out for, I guess Erobos Titan as stated earlier but not sure if thats better or not.
I'm not sure what to do about Kalitas either. I'll start looking at possible dudes. I may just run more utility in that spot as Gaea's has been my finisher lately and other creatures haven't shown the durability that this deck wants in its few creatures.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I've been running Grip of Desilaton as a 1 of to handle man lands and otherwise pesky creatures. It fills a spot that is open in the Past loop and is an auto 2 for 1.
Im going to include this as well! Good idea, great way to take out man lands!
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
I found the same.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Thinking the same thing, I thought about doing Plated Crusher, hexproof trample 7/6...not sure if main or side
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
I couldnt have said it any better, but I am wondering what to swap him out for, I guess Erobos Titan as stated earlier but not sure if thats better or not.
I'm not sure what to do about Kalitas either. I'll start looking at possible dudes. I may just run more utility in that spot as Gaea's has been my finisher lately and other creatures haven't shown the durability that this deck wants in its few creatures.
The witch seems like it could be fun. 20 turn doom clock. I think retreat isn't as good since running out of lands is a thing this deck does a lot. I think when I get home I want to test cutting 2 kalitas down to just 1 main deck to add 1 erebos titan and 1 Gaea's revenge. I think having 1 Kalitas is still important for the aristocrats deck, and the lifelink it has is relevant.
So, I'm going to be playing some variant of this at GP New York, so I want to get a little more conversation and feedback going.
I played against a number of R/B based control decks yesterday, and definitely felt real bad. The fact that they can interrupt the cycle of dark petition and seasons past is annoying. They also have more powerful spells than we do thanks to goblin dark dwellers, kolaghan's command and chandra, flamecaller. I really found virulent plague to be useful in this matchup, as it effectively blanks chandra, outside of her wheel ability. I thought orbs of warding might be well positioned against these decks, but it simply got smashed by command, and my opponent would just immediately cast all their duresses and transgress the minds.
The Mardu matchup felt almost entirely unwinnable. That deck has both shambling vent and needle spires which are really a pain to deal with, given how much of our removal is sorcery speed. I couldn't make Plague stick because of anguished unmaking, and between chandra and needle spires I died super fast.
I'm very excited about the idea of using Gaea's Revenge, because it seems like it could be the silver bullet for both mardu and jund. It's impossible for them to kill with anything besides chandra and can block the man-lands, and that's pretty damn relevant.
I also want to mention that dumping grasp of darkness seems like a big mistake. Grasp has a huge edge over ultimate pricein dealing with man-lands (because, you know, it can actually kill them, even with a live advocate), which are super problematic for the deck for aforementioned reason.
In thinking more deeply about gaea's revenge, I wonder whether we need the naturalizes in our sideboard. I'm assuming that naturalize was in the board to deal with tutelage, but if revenge really hoses tutelage as bad as Yawg would have us believe, then maybe they aren't necessary. Plus, orbs of warding, makes them unable to mill us. Is there some other relevant target beside hangarback walker that merits keeping naturalize in the sideboard?
I play exclusively on MTGO and I encounter a lot of Tutelage and/or Fevered Visions. It's basically impossible to beat with such a slow deck and no way to destroy enchantments, which is why I want a main deck solution. I don't need it to be a silver bullet, I just need it to give me a chance in hell of winning game 1 without being dead in other match ups. I don't think one copy is unreasonable against mill because our deck is based on a graveyard loop, and if the opponent is able to disrupt it we're dead in the water anyway. I do like World Breaker though it seems too slow against a turn 3 Tutelage. Not sure how Gaea's Revenge beats early Tutelage (although I'm running one for other reasons), especially in multiples - you're not casting him until turns 7-10 at best. Tutelage is a much faster clock and we have zero ways to mitigate it.
Goggles is a little more doable in game 1 but the U/R and R/W versions make it very hard to close out the game. Our removal is just as dead as their removal for most of the game, but we still rely on creatures to close it out...they don't. Running some burn of our own (Damnable Pact) is probably a good idea, especially cause nobody will expect to get domed for 10+ by a B/G deck.
Both of these match ups obviously get a lot better in game 2 when you bring in Naturalizes and board out removal but these decks are a big enough chunk of the online metagame that I don't want to forfeit game 1 by default. Are we not running a single Infinite Obliteration based on the same reasoning? I'm seeing waaaaay more Goggles/Tutelage/Visions than World Breakers and Ulamogs right now.
You need 1 naturalize in the sideboard to win the mirror. If your opponent gets an orbs out and you can't kill it you lose because they can interact with your hand, and you cannot disrupt them at all. It is also nice to have as an option for certain matchups (like tutelage) and can also answer random things your opponent might have as a sideboard card for the matchup. I think the value of 1 naturalize is really high in a deck based around tutors.
I've been running Grip of Desilaton as a 1 of to handle man lands and otherwise pesky creatures. It fills a spot that is open in the Past loop and is an auto 2 for 1.
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
Tireless Tracker is great but I have the same thoughts as others were it just eats removal.I prefer to have mana up to kill things when I would be casting him. Also dies to Languish.
Ob seems like a good include to me. It does everything this deck wants. It's also easy to cast off of Petition.
Ya in my original list I added a Grip, its very good once things get cooking late game.
I went 3-2 drop tonight beating UW Humans, Mono White Humans, and Esper Dragons, and losing to Grixis Control and GR Goggles Ramp. My loss against Grixis was flooding out badly both games and the opposite problem against ramp. The games I didn't have mana issues I grind them out and win.
Three other players were playing the same deck with their own small flair. Two went undefeated 5-0-1 and one had the same problem I did and dropped after 3-2. The field was chalked full of blue control and midrange, so the deck was very well positioned.
Gaea's Revenge was great. No regrets of it in the side. The single Blighted Fen too, as it came into play against Esper and UW Humans both with Ojutai on the board. Making your opponent play around a land was fun.
Oblivion Strike was a bust. Never got to play it, and never found a reason to play it. I'm going to try To the Slaughter instead, as I found sac effects pretty good tonight.
I'm up to 2 Gaea's main now. There really aren't very many good answers to it in Standard. Haste also gives this the immediate impact that this deck always needs from it's threats.
I've also had some games with From Under the Floorboards, and it's been good. I have used the x cost in one game to win EOT basically. It's really good when it's madness cost is played. It's just okay at regular cost. It did however win a game I wouldn't have won otherwise.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I do like the idea of Anguished Unmaking, I'd run it in the main deck for a way to deal with problematic enchantments/artifacts in game 1 with minimal opportunity cost. Problem solved. Sorin would be a great way to stabilize and put the game away, but I don't really see the point of Dromoka here. Can't protect it so it's not a threat to Esper, and the more aggressive decks are running plenty of Declaration in Stone so it's not like you can plop it down and stabilize the way you could against RDW.
My testing with a Reclaiming Vines in the main has been alright so far, but I've only faced stuff like Esper Superfriends and Jeskai Dragons where I was keeping them off their third color and preemptively swatting manlands. Almost always useful, but not very efficient. I don't want to play Conclave Naturalists or Ainok Survivalist cause waiting for 5 lands is too slow, but Caustic Caterpillar is something I'm interested in...the body isn't very relevant, but it's still a clock and it's also a 1cmc Seasons Past target. What's a higher floor, paying 4cmc to nuke a land or running a 1cmc 1/1 vanilla creature? Neither effect is even Limited playable lol, maybe the deck does need a third color to face a more well-rounded field. I wish we had some real Golgari control cards like Maelstrom Pulse, Vraska the Unseen, Gaze of Granite, Putrefy, and Abrupt Decay.
I actually think Dragonlord Dromoka is a good card and should be in the white splash. It's not something the deck would side in against control or rdw, instead it's good tech for the Mirror match. Once it hits the board the only kill spell that can touch it is Ruinous Path (and Anguished unmaking/Declaration in Stone if you're playing an Abzan mirror), the life gain helps stabilize and it flies over all of your opponents' Hissing Quagmires.
I'm already running Orbs of Warding and Hedonist's Trove for the mirror, which are a bit more targeted. It would have to be good against a large chunk of the field or be a silver bullet. Against Bant Company I think you're better off keeping their Reflector Mages as dead as possible rather than losing tempo with Infinite Obliteration.
I got some more testing in and finally faced some Aristocrats and Humans builds. I completely forgot Reclaiming Vines hits Westvale Abbey, which actually makes it quite useful in those match ups. It might even be worth keeping in for game 2. Turns out the floor is higher than I thought, at least in this metagame.
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Needing BB early for Grasp of Darkness makes including Wastes a liability, so Kozilek just isn't worth the hit to the mana base.
The titans just aren't worth it. Tapping out just to have them get hit by Declaration in Stone is going to feel REALLY bad.
Damnable Pact is cute but I'm not sure how much I like it.
Gaea's Revenge has been great. Not sure if I want a second somewhere in the 75.
Kalitas hasn't been as impressive in the past week. People are holding all of their removal for him. I mean he's great versus the other BG deck but honestly the amount of sweepers in our deck makes him more of a win more there. At 4 mana he just isn't driving the deck like I had hoped. I do like Nissa still as she replaces herself. And once flipped she ends games.
Tireless Tracker is great but I have the same thoughts as others were it just eats removal.I prefer to have mana up to kill things when I would be casting him. Also dies to Languish.
Ob seems like a good include to me. It does everything this deck wants. It's also easy to cast off of Petition.
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I've been winning a lot of control mirrors in a timely manner with damnable pact lately. Haven't really missed the 4th read the bones much. I still want more data, but for now it seems fine.
I have another PPTQ to go to next weekend, so I think I need to focus on tuning for the Bant Company matchup. I faced it 5 times out of 9 matches last weekend, so it clearly is quite popular in the central Texas area.
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This makes our discard and sweepers instant speed. I'm testing this as a 3 of in my BG build. If I need a brain in a jar I can petition for it, cast and activate it with the mana floating.
Languish on attack phase? Yes, please. Read the Bones EoT? fine.
This is so much fun.
ps: You heard it here first.
EDIT: PV wrote about brain in the jar season's past in his rejected PT decklists article on channelfireball: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/rejected-brews-from-ptsoi-testing-bw-jar-fog-and-seasons-past-jar/
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Also, just wanted to comment on Sphinx's Tutelage decks. I actually played against 3 of them last night. Two were UR, one was Esper. I won 1 match of the three. I don't know if the deck is becoming more popular, or if it's a 'budget deck' so people are building it more online, but I have played against it too much already. There's a few things I noticed that makes the matchup pretty terrible:
* They run almost 0 creatures. Blanks 90% of our removal.
Now, I did get the hang of the matchup by the end of my Tutelage Gauntlet, and I have to say that (obviously) Naturalize is great, but that Gaea's Revenge is game winning vs Tutelage. In my best games against them, all I did was side out 90% of my removal, added every piece of discard, Kalitas, Gaea's Revenge, and actually Dead Weight (seems silly, but I boarded in Pick the Brain, and since we get milled, I figure that the Dead Weight would help me get Delirium faster). I played all my discard in the first X turns, tried to ramp as fast as I could and played Gaea's Revenge as fast as possible. They LITERALLY HAVE NO ANSWER TO THIS CARD. No blockers, and all their removal is non-green. I can attack 3 times faster than they can mill my deck away. The only game I lost with this mentality was one where both Revenges were milled, along with both Seasons Past. At that point, I was trying to attack them as much as I could with Ashaya tokens and Hissing Quagmires. Still lost thought.* We are almost a mono-colored deck. Thank goodness we run so many lands or else we would get milled 4+ every draw, rather than 2.
* Discard is only good in the first 2-3 turns to try and stop Tutelage. After they have 3 mana out, a topdecked Tutelage is going to hit play and stay there.
* Having silver bullets and GY recursion is good and bad vs this type of deck. There have been quite a few games where he milled both my Season's Past. At that point, we have no more advantage than any other deck. It's great that they load up our GY, but if they mill away the only recursion spells we play, what does it matter. Same goes with a scenario like the one mentioned above. You have a maindecked Reclaiming Vines, and they mill it. If you're lucky enough to not have your Seasons Pasts milled, and you can then recur the Vines, great. From play experience, it's better to have a lot of answers vs that deck, rather than a silver bullet.
So, I wouldn't dismiss the Tutelage decks. I think they're budget enough that a lot of people can build it, but not make it to top 8... What does that mean? you'll see it often, but you'll never read about them in the top 8. So, I think you do need to be prepared for it, even if it's not that great. If I was gonna pick a Titan to run, I'd prob go with Ulamog, for sheer winning power alone. 10/10, Double vindicate, Indestructible, with a mill win strategy, I think, is better than the 12/12 Menace with Draw and Countering abilities. Yes, you can protect Kozilek by discarding a card with CC = the removal spell, but if you don't have that CC card in hand, he's vulnerable to any W or B removal spell. I also like the fact that they both cost the same, but Ulamog doesn't NEED colorless to play. IDK, I think I'd go with Ulamog over Kozilek if I were to pick one.
-Yawg
I just read the article and he never mentioned why it got the axe. He mainly said that the sideboard was not enough.
We all know BG Control has spells to deal with different threats. I just adjusted my sidebaord to fair better against creatureless decks. (this is mtgo, after all)
I'll post a list as soon as I'm happy with the looks. Brain in the jar worked wonders for me.
You drop it whenever and keep activating. Along the way you'll hit a couple of good spells. Languish at instant speed could possibly improve our matchup against bant company. That along with Infinite Obliteration/Ruinous Path in response to collected. Season's Past at their end step after resolving a Nissa's Renewal is super.
I'll keep testing this weekend.
I'm not sure what to do about Kalitas either. I'll start looking at possible dudes. I may just run more utility in that spot as Gaea's has been my finisher lately and other creatures haven't shown the durability that this deck wants in its few creatures.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Pitiless Horde is an aggressive creature, but playing it with Dash lets it dodge sorcery removal and our own Languish. Accursed Witch's flip side, Infectious Curse, or Retreat to Hagra could do a lot of work over the course of a game.
Just throwing stuff out there.
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I played against a number of R/B based control decks yesterday, and definitely felt real bad. The fact that they can interrupt the cycle of dark petition and seasons past is annoying. They also have more powerful spells than we do thanks to goblin dark dwellers, kolaghan's command and chandra, flamecaller. I really found virulent plague to be useful in this matchup, as it effectively blanks chandra, outside of her wheel ability. I thought orbs of warding might be well positioned against these decks, but it simply got smashed by command, and my opponent would just immediately cast all their duresses and transgress the minds.
The Mardu matchup felt almost entirely unwinnable. That deck has both shambling vent and needle spires which are really a pain to deal with, given how much of our removal is sorcery speed. I couldn't make Plague stick because of anguished unmaking, and between chandra and needle spires I died super fast.
I'm very excited about the idea of using Gaea's Revenge, because it seems like it could be the silver bullet for both mardu and jund. It's impossible for them to kill with anything besides chandra and can block the man-lands, and that's pretty damn relevant.
I also want to mention that dumping grasp of darkness seems like a big mistake. Grasp has a huge edge over ultimate pricein dealing with man-lands (because, you know, it can actually kill them, even with a live advocate), which are super problematic for the deck for aforementioned reason.
In thinking more deeply about gaea's revenge, I wonder whether we need the naturalizes in our sideboard. I'm assuming that naturalize was in the board to deal with tutelage, but if revenge really hoses tutelage as bad as Yawg would have us believe, then maybe they aren't necessary. Plus, orbs of warding, makes them unable to mill us. Is there some other relevant target beside hangarback walker that merits keeping naturalize in the sideboard?
Cryptolith Rite
Pyromancer's Goggles
Evolutionary Leap
Possibly Demonic Pact, which still pops up from time to time. You'll also probably want it for Orbs of Warding and Hedonist's Trove in the mirror.
I play exclusively on MTGO and I encounter a lot of Tutelage and/or Fevered Visions. It's basically impossible to beat with such a slow deck and no way to destroy enchantments, which is why I want a main deck solution. I don't need it to be a silver bullet, I just need it to give me a chance in hell of winning game 1 without being dead in other match ups. I don't think one copy is unreasonable against mill because our deck is based on a graveyard loop, and if the opponent is able to disrupt it we're dead in the water anyway. I do like World Breaker though it seems too slow against a turn 3 Tutelage. Not sure how Gaea's Revenge beats early Tutelage (although I'm running one for other reasons), especially in multiples - you're not casting him until turns 7-10 at best. Tutelage is a much faster clock and we have zero ways to mitigate it.
Goggles is a little more doable in game 1 but the U/R and R/W versions make it very hard to close out the game. Our removal is just as dead as their removal for most of the game, but we still rely on creatures to close it out...they don't. Running some burn of our own (Damnable Pact) is probably a good idea, especially cause nobody will expect to get domed for 10+ by a B/G deck.
Both of these match ups obviously get a lot better in game 2 when you bring in Naturalizes and board out removal but these decks are a big enough chunk of the online metagame that I don't want to forfeit game 1 by default. Are we not running a single Infinite Obliteration based on the same reasoning? I'm seeing waaaaay more Goggles/Tutelage/Visions than World Breakers and Ulamogs right now.
Esper Control
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
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MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
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How many seasons past should be in the deck? same with nissa's renewal. I see some lists run only 1 past, some have more.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
I'd say no more than 2 Seasons Past and 1 Nissa's Renewal due to both being 6-drops. You don't want to draw multiples too early in a game.
Ya in my original list I added a Grip, its very good once things get cooking late game.
Three other players were playing the same deck with their own small flair. Two went undefeated 5-0-1 and one had the same problem I did and dropped after 3-2. The field was chalked full of blue control and midrange, so the deck was very well positioned.
Gaea's Revenge was great. No regrets of it in the side. The single Blighted Fen too, as it came into play against Esper and UW Humans both with Ojutai on the board. Making your opponent play around a land was fun.
Oblivion Strike was a bust. Never got to play it, and never found a reason to play it. I'm going to try To the Slaughter instead, as I found sac effects pretty good tonight.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Wins: 2 mirror matches, 1 esper dragons, 1 b/w control.
Losses: w humans (flood and screw)
No card served me better than gaea's revenge. And it totally rolled my opponents in every match where I cast it. Display of dominance also put in some work against black white, killing planeswalkers and preventing my opponent from casting an anguished unmaking on virulent plague while he was sitting on secure the wastes
The mirror feels really awkward in g1 and it almost felt like whoever resolves seasons past first has a huge edge.
I've also had some games with From Under the Floorboards, and it's been good. I have used the x cost in one game to win EOT basically. It's really good when it's madness cost is played. It's just okay at regular cost. It did however win a game I wouldn't have won otherwise.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Go Pelakka Wurm!
My testing with a Reclaiming Vines in the main has been alright so far, but I've only faced stuff like Esper Superfriends and Jeskai Dragons where I was keeping them off their third color and preemptively swatting manlands. Almost always useful, but not very efficient. I don't want to play Conclave Naturalists or Ainok Survivalist cause waiting for 5 lands is too slow, but Caustic Caterpillar is something I'm interested in...the body isn't very relevant, but it's still a clock and it's also a 1cmc Seasons Past target. What's a higher floor, paying 4cmc to nuke a land or running a 1cmc 1/1 vanilla creature? Neither effect is even Limited playable lol, maybe the deck does need a third color to face a more well-rounded field. I wish we had some real Golgari control cards like Maelstrom Pulse, Vraska the Unseen, Gaze of Granite, Putrefy, and Abrupt Decay.
Esper Control
It is also fairly good vs Bant CoCo, so long as you're able to Infinite Obliteration away their reflector mages. It stops them casting Collected Company on your turn and is one mana cheaper to cast than Gaea's Revenge.
I got some more testing in and finally faced some Aristocrats and Humans builds. I completely forgot Reclaiming Vines hits Westvale Abbey, which actually makes it quite useful in those match ups. It might even be worth keeping in for game 2. Turns out the floor is higher than I thought, at least in this metagame.
Esper Control