I've been playing Abzan Past for a while now, and after seeing the B/W angels list from Columbus, wanted to try and find a way to merge the two decks together in a way. I didn't get to play this past Friday, and won't get to play this Friday, so last night I ran this list at a small standard event in order to get some testing in.
Quick rundown of how games went from what I can remember.
(2-0) vs. Mardu Control: Long games as you can imagine. Game one was able to easily handle his Goblin Dark-Dwellers that he was using just to re-cast Read the Bones. He gets the mana to cast Emrakul, and on the next turn I take I'm able to create Brisela. Opponent held back Emrakul as he was low on life and could not comfortable take a swing back from Brisela, which allowed me to Seasons PastRuinous Path back to my hand to end Emrakul and win the game. Game two was not even close, as Distended Mindbender tore apart my opponent's hand, giving me a clear path to cast Emrakul and ride her to the win.
(2-0) vs. Madness Vampires: One-sided win as you would expect. Incredibly fun to deck to play against and watch function, though. With some tuning a deck similar to my opponent's could make an appearance and do some good things. Was hilarious to see Lupine Prototype be played on turn two and actually start attacking within a couple turns.
(0-2) vs. Bant Company: Yes, I lost 0-2, but the matchup feels good enough that I would not dread going up against this deck more. Both games were incredibly close. Game one was a back and forth of his creatures and CoCos going head to head with my removal spells. Was able to create Brisela late in the game, thinking I was now in position to win, but Tamiyo came down and tapped down Brisela, allowing my opponent to swing for the win. Game two I mulled to five but still took the game long. Late game opponent was able to Spell Queller my Gisela with Bruna on the field. After some more back and forth opponent built up a sizable board and was able to swing for the win with a Languish sitting on top of my deck as my next draw.
(1-2) vs. UB Control: Easily a 2-0 if I don't make a very stupid mistake. List was very similar to the Sultai decks prior to EMN release, minus the green for Advocates and a Nissa, instead opting for more removal, some counter-spells, and Sphinx of the Final Word. Game one I was able to handle Jace and Liliana with ease, Linvala matched with the Sphinx, all while drawing enough threats to keep my opponent on his heels, eventually creating Brisela and winning the game. Game two I lost only due to a completely boneheaded play by me. My turn three Liliana was ticked up to six, when opponent played a Liliana of his own. On my next turn I ticked Liliana up, ready to emblem my next turn. Being tired and not thinking straight, I cast Anguished Unmaking on my opponent's Liliana, still on my turn, giving my opponent the opportunity to Silumgar my Liliana and create the emblem himself. Game three I got stuck on four lands, and my Advocates were not able to match up against my opponent's Jace, Liliana, and Ob Nixilis.
Card Selection Succumb to Temptation: Read the Bones may be better due to its scry, but I very much prefer to be able to act at instant speed in this current format. Personally still prefer it over RtB. Thalia's Lancers: Very underrated card. It's body might not match its mana cost, but its ETB trigger is amazing. Not only useful for putting together Brisela, as more often when cast I was searching for a Nissa or Linvala. Liliana, the Last Hope: I was a pretty underwhelmed with her when first spoiled, but wow is she an all-star. Early-game slowing down your opponent, or late-game bringing back an Advocate, Gisela, etc., there was never a time when I was not happy to draw her. Should definitely try to find room for a second in main or the in the sideboard. Seasons Past: The card the deck is named after. While it does give you the ability to win the long games due to attrition, it is possible we're now at a point where this card can be left out of the main and moved to the sideboard for another removal spell, or perhaps the second Liliana. Distended Mindbender: Decided to try this over whas was previous two Transgress in the board. Very happy with my decision. House of a card. Destroys your opponents hand with the cast trigger. Sacrificing a Nissa or Advocate to emerge this card never felt wrong, nor did paying the full mana cost. Emrakul, the Promised End: Just had to try it, and frankly, I'll be leaving it in the sideboard for now. There's almost certainly better choices to replace it with, but in the games you know will go long, Lancers into Emrakul is very good, and getting to cast her will not be a problem. Permeating Mass: Never got to play it. Another removal spell is probably just better. Hallowed Moonlight: This card is no longer only useful against CoCo or Secure the Wastes, as casting it in response to a Brisela meld trigger means you're exiling both halves. This will be staying in the sideboard.
Record was meh, but for something I just scrapped together because I wanted to make things happen with new cards, the deck performed much better than I expected, having thrown in so many WW cost cards to go along with the BB spells of your typical Seasons Past deck. Manabase likely needs some tweaking, and the sideboard definitely needs some work, but I am very happy with this deck and plan on refining it further and playing it in any upcoming tournament for this two month standard format, barring any major meta changes.
Seems good man. I want to try something similar but without devoting so much to the toolbox side of things... Basically I am not too sure about the Lancers. IT is nice that they let you tutor..but would pbbly want something with a more immediate impact at 5CC. Will try a straight swap for Avacyn and will try to put in some Tireless trackers. Also, the engine: Liliana + Den protector seems pretty good..perhaps one Den Protector could find a spot in the MD?
On a related matter. How did the mana base work for you? Any changes you would suggest? Number of CIPT lands was a problem?
Seems good man. I want to try something similar but without devoting so much to the toolbox side of things... Basically I am not too sure about the Lancers. IT is nice that they let you tutor..but would pbbly want something with a more immediate impact at 5CC. Will try a straight swap for Avacyn and will try to put in some Tireless trackers. Also, the engine: Liliana + Den protector seems pretty good..perhaps one Den Protector could find a spot in the MD?
On a related matter. How did the mana base work for you? Any changes you would suggest? Number of CIPT lands was a problem?
The build of course can be tuned to be much better, but I can't imagine not running Lancers. It may not seem like an immediate impact but allowing us to not only build Brisela, but also retrieve Nissa or Linvala, and Dromoka or Kalitas from the side is also huge. It also keeps the majority of non-flying creatures played which aren't Sylvan Advocate from making good attacks, and opponents aren't going to want to Reflector Mage it or bounce it with Displacer unless they're making a lethal swing. I didn't really like Avacyn in the B/W Angels list from Columbus, and don't really think she does much in this list now. Flash and flying is nice and can take your opponent by surprise, but the ETB is pretty irrelevant(how many creatures are we likely to have on the board at one time?) and we don't have a way to reliably flip her if we needed to attempt a three damage board wipe. I love Tireless Tracker and had initially played him in my pre-EMN build, but found myself in a lot of situations where I'd have multiple clue tokens I couldn't leave up the mana to crack. Tireless Tracker also promotes holding a land or two in the later stages of the game, when we really want to make sure we're hitting WW and seven mana asap. Den Protector should definitely be considered for a spot in the deck. I had one in the sideboard but took it out to give Emraklu a try.
I didn't tweak the mana-base much from my pre-EMN build, opting to just drop a Blighted-Fen for the second Plains. Math says I should run a couple more white sources, but so far through play and goldfishing have not ran into an issue reaching WW by the time it was needed. A swamp, and perhaps a Llanowar Wastes(reducing our chances for a turn two Advocate) could probably be swapped out for a second and third Caves of Koilos
I played tireless tracker and not once was I happy to see him. Also not a fan of leaving so much power on the table by playing extra lands for his land drops. Does anyone really like that list with three ramp spells MB? "Perfecting GB in Standard" was the CFB article
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Former YGO player so Card Advantage is ALWAYS king in my decks.
The only ramp spell I like is Nissa's Renewal because with one card you slingshot yourself into cycling Seasons/Petition, and the life gain gives you breathing room to fire it off. It's even worth recycling a few times to put your life total far out of reach. Anything else is just too inconsistent for my tastes. However there are some pros that like to have a singleton manadork or somesuch, just to have that surprise blitz curve once in a blue moon.
Nissa's Renewal needs lots of basic lands to shine so I don't run it in Sultai/Abzan. It's a big perk of staying B/G imo.
So after lots of testing etc I am now settled on a version of the deck I like. I went 5-0 in the MTGO competitive league today so, while certainly not the highest level tournament, it is a good sign. I won vs. BG delirium, momo R burn, Grixis control, Bant, Bant. The deck feels strong vs. the meta so far but we will see how it goes.
The Oath of nissa really smooths the draws VERY much and I am very happy with them. The deck works as a traditional control one that can seal the late game with Brisela (at least vs. certain key mathcups such as bant, humans, and GW tokens). Brisela is also a pseudo-sealer in other matchups but typically those decks have more ways out (albeit limited) against her. From the SB it can transform into a full seasons past deck which is useful vs grindier matchups such as BW and so on. The man base has worked fine so far and only very few games I have found myself needing a double white to play the Gisela in turns 4 through 6. Of course if anyone has any ideas on how to improve it I am more than willing to listen and learn.
Anyway, feel free to comment or criticize. I really want to tune it as much as possible before game day and RPTQs etc.
UPDATE: on the no so bright side I went 2-3 in the league yesterday. Won vs Bant Coco and Sultai control (Aintrazi's list), and Lost to Bant Coco, Bant Coco, and RG Googles. The won/lost matches to Bant Coco were close despite seeing a LOT ( 2 or more per game) of spell Quellers. I think the gameplan I have vs them is solid so far. Gisela puts a lot of work and Brisela seals the game. Fliers seem to be kings in this meta. RG Googles seems rough game 1. Game 2 and 3 are 'winnable' but are not favorable. Overall that seems like a very rough matchup. MAy add 2 noose constrictors/ Lambholdt pacifists in the SB to improve this matchup (they also help vs aggro I guess)
Following a friend's recommendation I have gone -1 Forest - 1 Evolving wilds + 1 Canopy vista + 1 Llanowar wastes.
Does Diabolical Tutor make this deck playable after rotation?
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Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
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1 Bruna, the Fading Light
2 Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 Linvala, the Preserver
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Sylvan Advocate
2 Thalia's Lancers
Instant
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Succumb to Temptation
2 Ultimate Price
Sorcery
2 Dark Petition
4 Languish
3 Ruinous Path
1 Seasons Past
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land
3 Canopy Vista
1 Caves of Kolios
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Hissing Quagmire
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
5 Swamp
2 Distended Mindbender
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Lambholt Pacifist
1 Permeating Mass
2 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Ultimate Price
2 Duress
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Virulent Plague
Quick rundown of how games went from what I can remember.
(2-0) vs. Mardu Control: Long games as you can imagine. Game one was able to easily handle his Goblin Dark-Dwellers that he was using just to re-cast Read the Bones. He gets the mana to cast Emrakul, and on the next turn I take I'm able to create Brisela. Opponent held back Emrakul as he was low on life and could not comfortable take a swing back from Brisela, which allowed me to Seasons Past Ruinous Path back to my hand to end Emrakul and win the game. Game two was not even close, as Distended Mindbender tore apart my opponent's hand, giving me a clear path to cast Emrakul and ride her to the win.
(2-0) vs. Madness Vampires: One-sided win as you would expect. Incredibly fun to deck to play against and watch function, though. With some tuning a deck similar to my opponent's could make an appearance and do some good things. Was hilarious to see Lupine Prototype be played on turn two and actually start attacking within a couple turns.
(0-2) vs. Bant Company: Yes, I lost 0-2, but the matchup feels good enough that I would not dread going up against this deck more. Both games were incredibly close. Game one was a back and forth of his creatures and CoCos going head to head with my removal spells. Was able to create Brisela late in the game, thinking I was now in position to win, but Tamiyo came down and tapped down Brisela, allowing my opponent to swing for the win. Game two I mulled to five but still took the game long. Late game opponent was able to Spell Queller my Gisela with Bruna on the field. After some more back and forth opponent built up a sizable board and was able to swing for the win with a Languish sitting on top of my deck as my next draw.
(1-2) vs. UB Control: Easily a 2-0 if I don't make a very stupid mistake. List was very similar to the Sultai decks prior to EMN release, minus the green for Advocates and a Nissa, instead opting for more removal, some counter-spells, and Sphinx of the Final Word. Game one I was able to handle Jace and Liliana with ease, Linvala matched with the Sphinx, all while drawing enough threats to keep my opponent on his heels, eventually creating Brisela and winning the game. Game two I lost only due to a completely boneheaded play by me. My turn three Liliana was ticked up to six, when opponent played a Liliana of his own. On my next turn I ticked Liliana up, ready to emblem my next turn. Being tired and not thinking straight, I cast Anguished Unmaking on my opponent's Liliana, still on my turn, giving my opponent the opportunity to Silumgar my Liliana and create the emblem himself. Game three I got stuck on four lands, and my Advocates were not able to match up against my opponent's Jace, Liliana, and Ob Nixilis.
Card Selection
Succumb to Temptation: Read the Bones may be better due to its scry, but I very much prefer to be able to act at instant speed in this current format. Personally still prefer it over RtB.
Thalia's Lancers: Very underrated card. It's body might not match its mana cost, but its ETB trigger is amazing. Not only useful for putting together Brisela, as more often when cast I was searching for a Nissa or Linvala.
Liliana, the Last Hope: I was a pretty underwhelmed with her when first spoiled, but wow is she an all-star. Early-game slowing down your opponent, or late-game bringing back an Advocate, Gisela, etc., there was never a time when I was not happy to draw her. Should definitely try to find room for a second in main or the in the sideboard.
Seasons Past: The card the deck is named after. While it does give you the ability to win the long games due to attrition, it is possible we're now at a point where this card can be left out of the main and moved to the sideboard for another removal spell, or perhaps the second Liliana.
Distended Mindbender: Decided to try this over whas was previous two Transgress in the board. Very happy with my decision. House of a card. Destroys your opponents hand with the cast trigger. Sacrificing a Nissa or Advocate to emerge this card never felt wrong, nor did paying the full mana cost.
Emrakul, the Promised End: Just had to try it, and frankly, I'll be leaving it in the sideboard for now. There's almost certainly better choices to replace it with, but in the games you know will go long, Lancers into Emrakul is very good, and getting to cast her will not be a problem.
Permeating Mass: Never got to play it. Another removal spell is probably just better.
Hallowed Moonlight: This card is no longer only useful against CoCo or Secure the Wastes, as casting it in response to a Brisela meld trigger means you're exiling both halves. This will be staying in the sideboard.
Record was meh, but for something I just scrapped together because I wanted to make things happen with new cards, the deck performed much better than I expected, having thrown in so many WW cost cards to go along with the BB spells of your typical Seasons Past deck. Manabase likely needs some tweaking, and the sideboard definitely needs some work, but I am very happy with this deck and plan on refining it further and playing it in any upcoming tournament for this two month standard format, barring any major meta changes.
On a related matter. How did the mana base work for you? Any changes you would suggest? Number of CIPT lands was a problem?
The build of course can be tuned to be much better, but I can't imagine not running Lancers. It may not seem like an immediate impact but allowing us to not only build Brisela, but also retrieve Nissa or Linvala, and Dromoka or Kalitas from the side is also huge. It also keeps the majority of non-flying creatures played which aren't Sylvan Advocate from making good attacks, and opponents aren't going to want to Reflector Mage it or bounce it with Displacer unless they're making a lethal swing. I didn't really like Avacyn in the B/W Angels list from Columbus, and don't really think she does much in this list now. Flash and flying is nice and can take your opponent by surprise, but the ETB is pretty irrelevant(how many creatures are we likely to have on the board at one time?) and we don't have a way to reliably flip her if we needed to attempt a three damage board wipe. I love Tireless Tracker and had initially played him in my pre-EMN build, but found myself in a lot of situations where I'd have multiple clue tokens I couldn't leave up the mana to crack. Tireless Tracker also promotes holding a land or two in the later stages of the game, when we really want to make sure we're hitting WW and seven mana asap. Den Protector should definitely be considered for a spot in the deck. I had one in the sideboard but took it out to give Emraklu a try.
I didn't tweak the mana-base much from my pre-EMN build, opting to just drop a Blighted-Fen for the second Plains. Math says I should run a couple more white sources, but so far through play and goldfishing have not ran into an issue reaching WW by the time it was needed. A swamp, and perhaps a Llanowar Wastes(reducing our chances for a turn two Advocate) could probably be swapped out for a second and third Caves of Koilos
Former YGO player so Card Advantage is ALWAYS king in my decks.
Nissa's Renewal needs lots of basic lands to shine so I don't run it in Sultai/Abzan. It's a big perk of staying B/G imo.
Esper Control
Former YGO player so Card Advantage is ALWAYS king in my decks.
Here is my list
1 Canopy Vista
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Plains
3 Hissing Quagmire
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Swamp
4 Forest
4 Shambling Vent
\\ PW
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
\\CREATURES
4 Sylvan Advocate
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Den Protector
1 Linvala, the Preserver
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
2 Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Dark Petition
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Murder
1 Declaration in Stone
3 Oath of Nissa
4 Languish
1 Read the Bones
1 Ultimate Price
1 Ruinous Path
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Anguished Unmaking
1 Ultimate Price
1 Virulent Plague
3 Transgress the Mind
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
2 Dead Weight
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Seasons Past
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
The Oath of nissa really smooths the draws VERY much and I am very happy with them. The deck works as a traditional control one that can seal the late game with Brisela (at least vs. certain key mathcups such as bant, humans, and GW tokens). Brisela is also a pseudo-sealer in other matchups but typically those decks have more ways out (albeit limited) against her. From the SB it can transform into a full seasons past deck which is useful vs grindier matchups such as BW and so on. The man base has worked fine so far and only very few games I have found myself needing a double white to play the Gisela in turns 4 through 6. Of course if anyone has any ideas on how to improve it I am more than willing to listen and learn.
Anyway, feel free to comment or criticize. I really want to tune it as much as possible before game day and RPTQs etc.
UPDATE: on the no so bright side I went 2-3 in the league yesterday. Won vs Bant Coco and Sultai control (Aintrazi's list), and Lost to Bant Coco, Bant Coco, and RG Googles. The won/lost matches to Bant Coco were close despite seeing a LOT ( 2 or more per game) of spell Quellers. I think the gameplan I have vs them is solid so far. Gisela puts a lot of work and Brisela seals the game. Fliers seem to be kings in this meta. RG Googles seems rough game 1. Game 2 and 3 are 'winnable' but are not favorable. Overall that seems like a very rough matchup. MAy add 2 noose constrictors/ Lambholdt pacifists in the SB to improve this matchup (they also help vs aggro I guess)
Following a friend's recommendation I have gone -1 Forest - 1 Evolving wilds + 1 Canopy vista + 1 Llanowar wastes.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77