Every time I think this deck is poorly positioned and awful and I walk away from it, it wins a GP or something huge. I'm so sorry, Ojutai-senpai. Please forgive me.
It may have been Esper Dragons that took the trophy, but it was Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet that stole the entire show. After seeing it in action I don't think there are any more justifiable reasons to not play this card.
Declaration in Stone and Tragic Arrogance should help keep the deck a contender, but it seems that people are still shying away from these cards due to mana constraints. If the token strategies continue to gain ground not playing Declaration in Stone is indefensible. Tragic Arrogance is a card I'm still very high on, since it work so well with what our deck is trying to do, but I can praise this card only so much. Give it a go and see the beauty of playing it with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet on the battlefield.
Another card I've seen pick up popularity is Silumgar's Command, which seems nuts right now. Basically all the modes on the card are online in the current metagame and it will almost always guarantee a two for one, or a huge tempo swing at worst. It is a clean, if costly, answer to a transformed Westvale Abbey and it can help us deal with multiple planeswalkers.
The one point I feel is still contested is the draw engine. I'm not excited about the prospect of running a playset of pimped Divinations as my main source of card advantage. I'm still trying to make Epiphany at the Drownyard work but the results on that card are still inconclusive. I can't dismiss the card entirely nor can I advise other people to play it.
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
so I'm guessing painful truths is our best card draw spell right now?
I've had mixed results with truths. I'm actually preferring Read The Bones to it these days for a couple of reasons, the main one being mana. I only have 10 total sources of white with my current mana base, so getting a white source by turn 3 to get the full converge on truths is not consistent enough. I run it as a 1 of to get a 3 for 1 later in the game if I'm desperate for some card advantage, but Bones seems to be the better for that turn 3 dig for the permission / removal / untapped land you need, and if you're on the draw, there's no need to discard to hand size. Sometimes with Truths I would have these clunky openings and I'm on the draw and would have to discard a card after casting it on turn 3. In my experience, if I occasionally, somewhere around 25% of the time, have to cast painful truths with only 2 colors, then read the bones is probably superior.
It may have been Esper Dragons that took the trophy, but it was Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet that stole the entire show. After seeing it in action I don't think there are any more justifiable reasons to not play this card.
I haven't watched the coverage, but I've play tested against the GB aristocrats deck a few times, and can't help but smile once I get Kalitas in play.
Another card I've seen pick up popularity is Silumgar's Command, which seems nuts right now. Basically all the modes on the card are online in the current metagame and it will almost always guarantee a two for one, or a huge tempo swing at worst. It is a clean, if costly, answer to a transformed Westvale Abbey and it can help us deal with multiple planeswalkers.
It's funny, I've completely dropped Ojutai's Command from my deck list because I found it to be just too slow as a 2 for 1 against Humans and CoCo, but I was thinking of putting it back on my SB as an option strictly for the Jund midrange, as it seems very powerful against Goblin Dark-Dwellers. You make some very valid points about Silmgar's Command though, I might have to play around with it and see where I can fit it in. It would be nice to have some more answers to walkers other than permission and disruption.
Every time I think this deck is poorly positioned and awful and I walk away from it, it wins a GP or something huge. I'm so sorry, Ojutai-senpai. Please forgive me.
Dont be too sad. There are plenty of decks capable of winning GP right now, you still have time to pick ur poison:)
Is it correct to drop down to 3 Jace's? I mean, sometimes you want to loot to get a dragon, but Kalitas is and always has been a house. I tested out the deck today, felt good, not as powerful as it once was but in this format where standard has been powered down the deck seems to still do it's thing regardless of losing one of the best draw spells ever.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I been having trouble find a list for dragons I really like. Loss of Dig Through Time and Crux of Fate really hurts.
I think the biggest issue is you really have to pick what decks you want to target. Ultimate Price is great versus humans and Bant coco but terrible against Eldrazi, Control, Ramp and Planswalker decks. Anguished Unmaking is terrible against aggressive strategies but good against Planeswalkers and Enchantments.
Is it correct to drop down to 3 Jace's? I mean, sometimes you want to loot to get a dragon, but Kalitas is and always has been a house. I tested out the deck today, felt good, not as powerful as it once was but in this format where standard has been powered down the deck seems to still do it's thing regardless of losing one of the best draw spells ever.
Dig Through Time is what made Dragons work so well. Dig found you answers or another dragon if they managed to kill your dragon. Without Dig and more answers to Dragons like Clip Wings I feel you have to play more dragons. Been playing 2 Icefall Regent to up the dragon count to 10 and it really helps turning on your Dragons matter cards.
Read the Bones and Painful Truths cost life which is a big deal against aggressive decks. Sorcery speed is also an issue since you want to maximize your mana.
Not sure I like 3 Jace. Yes Jace is hard to flip without fetchlands and tends to die but you really need the filtering to not flood out on lands and the card advantage. I run 4 in Vintage Jace is just that good.
Declaration in stone and tragic arrogance can be good probably if tokens sticks around
Silumgar's Command is pretty sweet but would not play more then 1 as it costs 5. Declaration in Stone is not what a control deck wants. Giving the opponent a card in a long game control deck is not something you want to be doing. Have not tried Tragic Arrogance but in a primarily Black and Blue deck which wants BB and UU early, not sure we can support WW also.
It may have been Esper Dragons that took the trophy, but it was Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet that stole the entire show. After seeing it in action I don't think there are any more justifiable reasons to not play this card.
Declaration in Stone and Tragic Arrogance should help keep the deck a contender, but it seems that people are still shying away from these cards due to mana constraints. If the token strategies continue to gain ground not playing Declaration in Stone is indefensible. Tragic Arrogance is a card I'm still very high on, since it work so well with what our deck is trying to do, but I can praise this card only so much. Give it a go and see the beauty of playing it with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet on the battlefield.
Another card I've seen pick up popularity is Silumgar's Command, which seems nuts right now. Basically all the modes on the card are online in the current metagame and it will almost always guarantee a two for one, or a huge tempo swing at worst. It is a clean, if costly, answer to a transformed Westvale Abbey and it can help us deal with multiple planeswalkers.
The one point I feel is still contested is the draw engine. I'm not excited about the prospect of running a playset of pimped Divinations as my main source of card advantage. I'm still trying to make Epiphany at the Drownyard work but the results on that card are still inconclusive. I can't dismiss the card entirely nor can I advise other people to play it.
Maindeck Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is not something I thought of at all till the pros did it I was adding more Dragons. I do run Kalitas in the board though for some match ups Kalitas just wins the game.
Declaration in Stone is great in an aggro deck where your removing their blocker and winning soon but not what a control deck that is grinding for advantage wants.
Epiphany at the Drownyard I tried week one and was very disappointed. Your opponent chooses what you get so you never get what you need. It does give you more cards if cast for a lot of mana but they tend to be worse cards then if you just cast a draw spell where you drew random cards your opponent did not pick the worse ones.
Made a last minute audible to Esper the night before GP New York. Having never played the deck before, I think a 10-5 record is pretty reasonable. Dragonlord Ojutai felt very well positioned to go over a prospective field of GW Tokens, 4c Rites, and Grixis.
Lost to Goggles Ramp (matchup doesn't seem great), GW Tokens due to not having any idea how to sideboard correctly (boarded in 4th Languish instead of boarding some out, corrected the mistake day two and crushed it), a slower planeswalker version of Esper with Secure the Wastes and Westvale Abbey (somehow killed me game one though my Jace emblem and an active Sorin while he was at 3 life), Grixis in round 10 (got a game loss for showing up 30 seconds late and he proceeded to draw zero copies of Radiant Flames, Fiery Impulse, or any of the other bad cards on his side), and my last lost was to Martin Juza in a very close 3 games of the mirror.
Beat BW twice, GW twice, 4c Rites twice, Jund, Naya, GB Season's Past, and Grixis (eventual top 8 pilot Ralph Betesh, lol).
Overall, the deck felt reasonably powerful. 8/10 would recommend
How did 25 lands work out for you? I was at 27, then I cut it down to 26 and added 2 Anticipate and I was thinking about going down to 25.
I took a lot from PVDDR's article on CFB, and one of the suggestions I was on board with was cutting the 26th land and playing Anticipate. I think it did a lot for the deck, honestly. The only game that I can distinctly recall flooding was game one of the mirror against Martin, and the only game I can recall stumbling on my land drops was game two against Ramp where I got stuck on 5 with Prerogative and 2 DL Silumgars in hand when he cast World Breaker. I hit it with an Anguished Unmaking but he took me off of black and the follow-up World Breaker put the game away as I drew two more non-lands off the top. /storytime
tl;dr - play 25 lands and Anticipate. You'll thank me later.
I think i need to practice more I keep losing to "good match ups", like bant company, why can't I beat that deck :/? any tips? sideboard help?.
Is there anything I can do against RG eldrazi ramp? I feel like scooping and sitting the round out every-time I have to face it. I have infinite obliteration but I swear they always have both Ulamog and world-breaker in hand when I cast it. Also Thought knot, and sylvan advocate and other non- big eldrazi keep killing me before the titans come down while I am busy trying to deal with the ramp.
I put together Esper Drags again. It's my fav deck, going to be sad to see it rotate in a few months. That said yes there are things you can do to shore up match ups like Ramp and bant.
First which list are you using? Did you tweak it for your own meta? Esper Dragon's can be a tool box deck, and after SB a lot of match ups improve.
Cut the majority of Targeted removal, except Foul-Tongue Invocation. It's not an easy match up but you can shred their hand and stall them. My approach is always to strip ramp of it's end game, I take all threats that screw with my mana and hand.
Vs Bant, it's not easy, that deck can actually net more CA than Esper Dragons, but the tools are there to fight back. I personally like clash, and permission against them. Obliterating Reflector Mage allows your dragons to stay on the battlefield.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I think i need to practice more I keep losing to "good match ups", like bant company, why can't I beat that deck :/? any tips? sideboard help?.
It's very hard (almost impossible, in fact) to control the board for an extensive period of time against Bant, but they're super soft to the dragon side of the deck. Your gameplan should revolve around soft permission to keep your life total high early, trying to keep a Scorn if you can, and resolving Ojutai on 5. From there, you become the beatdown deck and just tempo them out for 4 turns. Keep them from Reflecting your dragon back and the game should be over quickly.
This, and the card Duskwatch Recuiter does wonders for CoCo decks to play into the late game.
I found it hard to run this deck in anything other than testing groups and small LGS events. Even then I lost to decks that just out valued me. Not having a U draw spell at Instant speed to restock or simply see more cards hurt the deck. The B draw spells are good but work better in midrange/ Tap out control decks. Esper wasn't a tap out deck perse as it could operate at Instant speed to look for answers. Not so anymore, most of your card drawing is done at sorcery speed.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
What do you guys think of Shota's deck from GP Minneapolis http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12557&d=272494 how do you guys fair against goggles ramp or decks with Fevered Visons?
I favor the instant speed 2 mana removals so I play Ultimate Price and Grasp of Darkness over silkwrap. Also, the stock list for Esper Dragons is going to have very few white sources, mostly just a splash at this point for Ojutai and Sorin, and unmaking in the SB, so to be able to comfortably have a white source by turn 2 would require a lot of restructuring to the mana, making cards like Grasp and Languish a lot harder to cast. For larger creatures, multi colored, eldrazi, etc.. you need to have Foul-Tongue Invocation, Silumgar's Scorn, and Transgress the Mind to deal with them.
I favor the instant speed 2 mana removals so I play Ultimate Price and Grasp of Darkness over silkwrap. Also, the stock list for Esper Dragons is going to have very few white sources, mostly just a splash at this point for Ojutai and Sorin, and unmaking in the SB, so to be able to comfortably have a white source by turn 2 would require a lot of restructuring to the mana, making cards like Grasp and Languish a lot harder to cast. For larger creatures, multi colored, eldrazi, etc.. you need to have Foul-Tongue Invocation, Silumgar's Scorn, and Transgress the Mind to deal with them.
that's what I was thinking, W mana seems hard to get that early
Esper Dragons has all the tools it needs to be a top contender. Planeswalkers? Jace VP, Ob Nixxy, Narset, Gideon.
Manabase? No fetches but dual set of check and tap duals, one of the best man lands, a pain land, and more utility lands than you can shake a stick at.
Access to the best kill spells and counters in the game? Sign me up!
Reflector Mage, Kalitas, Ojutai, Silumgar, Icefall Regent, Linvala, Archangel Avacyn. The options are endless on how you can build and customize the deck.
With the option of running a discard or mill package and the best defense against Ultramog and Worldbreaker in Infinite Obiteration, Esper has mighty tools in which to own the competition.
SImply not true, as an AVID Esper Dragons player before rotation, the current Esper Dragons deck has lost the ability to pull ahead with CA. Not having access to a big draw spell is huge. If are trying to run creatures in Esper Dragons that aren't dragons you lose the ability to turn on Silumgar's Scorn which was the major reasons to run this deck. There is an Esper Planeswalker Control variant thread.
As for the ramp match up? It's terrible. The 4 Ulamog and 4 World Breaker deck backed by K's return make Ojutai and his team very sad. It was different when Esper had Monastery Mentor and Dig Through Time to shore things up. Very few players use this deck as their go to control deck right now. Deck like Bant humans and G/W Tokens all generate more incremental CA by being more proactive.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Not true. Esper has Transgress the Mind and Infinite Obliteration to fight the big ramp decks and counterspells like Negate to shut down the Chandras. Declaration in Stone and Anguished Unmaking exile pesky permanents. I have a very good match up against eldrazi ramp after boarding and usually theu cant deal easily with a resolved Ojutai with counter back up. Clip Wings put of the board changes things a bit, but when these types of decks are rampant I run extra planeswalkers in the board along with good old Kalitas and it is usually enough to get the job done. The old Esper dragons deck was more powerful by far, due to the broken power of instant speed delve draw power but the cards we faced were more dynamic as well. I have done very well with Esper lately and that is facing many of those terrible match ups you mentioned. Naya Walkers has been my nightmare match up. I just dont have enough planeswalker kill to overcome all the threats they play.
My Esper dragons performance is changing wildly depending on what decks people decide to bring to FNM and standard night.
I beat humans decks easily, I beat the BG sac deck, I beat all the other blue control decks, (Think esper dragons is still the best blue control deck, yeah even grixis)
I lose to ramp but I haven't seen it in ages, yes they can beat a resolved dragon they cast Ulamog and exile Ojutai and there is nothing I can do about it. Transgress is in the main but the rest of the cards you mentioned are all sideboard cards... you know what ramp decks do against me post sideboard?.. they play sylvan advocate and thought-knot seer and just play a mid range deck, I am set up to counter and strip ramp but they just beat me to death with creatures.
I lose to all Sylvan advocate + Tireless tracker + Den Protector decks. I have to kill each and every threat and then they come back again. They just have way more threats than I have answers and many of these decks can deal with Ojutai, To the slaughter, clipped wings, reflector mage. Plus difficult to deal with walkers. I can win these games, I they don't feel as unwinable as the ramp match up but I prefer to be beating up on mid range decks, right now they have way more card advantage than I do, they have to flood for me to win.
I lose to a resolved Gideon, typically while I am struggling with my mana and sometimes a late game Secure the wastes.
ended up going 2-2-1 and 1-3 drop at local PPTQs this weekend. If anyone wants I can give an analysis
Think a big problem I had is not jamming any standard since switching back to this deck (from GB seasons past) so I didn't really know matchups or when to mull and keep so that cost me some matches
I play an overabundance of creature kill spells in Esper. Game one against ramp is horrible because of World Breaker/ Ulamog ripping your mana up. But game 2 and 3 is where I shine. Yes, your sideboard cards are vital to winning the match up. I played GR Ramp and know how most of the decks sideboard. I bring in appropriate responses and keep all my exile effects in. The Possessed Skaabs put in a good bit of work in this match up as it gives me a way to reuse the appropriate spell out of my yard when I need it. When they switch modes with ramp you have to switch with them and adjust. That said, a bad hand still loses you the game. I always try to learn how the top decks play since it gives me an edge for playing against them.
Whelp.. I lost every single game last night at standard night. thought part of it was odd number of people (giving me a bye) and quirk of the pairings against the actually good decks instead of losing then facing more casual decks or the humans deck we still crush.
Without dig the deck is so inconsistent, painful truths draw 3 lands the most painful of truths. I am either going to straight give up come EMN or take a long hard look at what I can do to greatly increase the decks consistency.
Also I always want to side in and out so many things in the mid range match ups but I require the core of my deck so it works, I think that warrants something of a shuffle between main and side.
Perhaps I am going to bring an experimental version of the deck to FNM this week.
Declaration in Stone and Tragic Arrogance should help keep the deck a contender, but it seems that people are still shying away from these cards due to mana constraints. If the token strategies continue to gain ground not playing Declaration in Stone is indefensible. Tragic Arrogance is a card I'm still very high on, since it work so well with what our deck is trying to do, but I can praise this card only so much. Give it a go and see the beauty of playing it with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet on the battlefield.
Another card I've seen pick up popularity is Silumgar's Command, which seems nuts right now. Basically all the modes on the card are online in the current metagame and it will almost always guarantee a two for one, or a huge tempo swing at worst. It is a clean, if costly, answer to a transformed Westvale Abbey and it can help us deal with multiple planeswalkers.
The one point I feel is still contested is the draw engine. I'm not excited about the prospect of running a playset of pimped Divinations as my main source of card advantage. I'm still trying to make Epiphany at the Drownyard work but the results on that card are still inconclusive. I can't dismiss the card entirely nor can I advise other people to play it.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I've had mixed results with truths. I'm actually preferring Read The Bones to it these days for a couple of reasons, the main one being mana. I only have 10 total sources of white with my current mana base, so getting a white source by turn 3 to get the full converge on truths is not consistent enough. I run it as a 1 of to get a 3 for 1 later in the game if I'm desperate for some card advantage, but Bones seems to be the better for that turn 3 dig for the permission / removal / untapped land you need, and if you're on the draw, there's no need to discard to hand size. Sometimes with Truths I would have these clunky openings and I'm on the draw and would have to discard a card after casting it on turn 3. In my experience, if I occasionally, somewhere around 25% of the time, have to cast painful truths with only 2 colors, then read the bones is probably superior.
I haven't watched the coverage, but I've play tested against the GB aristocrats deck a few times, and can't help but smile once I get Kalitas in play.
It's funny, I've completely dropped Ojutai's Command from my deck list because I found it to be just too slow as a 2 for 1 against Humans and CoCo, but I was thinking of putting it back on my SB as an option strictly for the Jund midrange, as it seems very powerful against Goblin Dark-Dwellers. You make some very valid points about Silmgar's Command though, I might have to play around with it and see where I can fit it in. It would be nice to have some more answers to walkers other than permission and disruption.
Declaration in stone and tragic arrogance can be good probably if tokens sticks around
Dont be too sad. There are plenty of decks capable of winning GP right now, you still have time to pick ur poison:)
Is it correct to drop down to 3 Jace's? I mean, sometimes you want to loot to get a dragon, but Kalitas is and always has been a house. I tested out the deck today, felt good, not as powerful as it once was but in this format where standard has been powered down the deck seems to still do it's thing regardless of losing one of the best draw spells ever.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I think the biggest issue is you really have to pick what decks you want to target. Ultimate Price is great versus humans and Bant coco but terrible against Eldrazi, Control, Ramp and Planswalker decks. Anguished Unmaking is terrible against aggressive strategies but good against Planeswalkers and Enchantments.
Dig Through Time is what made Dragons work so well. Dig found you answers or another dragon if they managed to kill your dragon. Without Dig and more answers to Dragons like Clip Wings I feel you have to play more dragons. Been playing 2 Icefall Regent to up the dragon count to 10 and it really helps turning on your Dragons matter cards.
Read the Bones and Painful Truths cost life which is a big deal against aggressive decks. Sorcery speed is also an issue since you want to maximize your mana.
Not sure I like 3 Jace. Yes Jace is hard to flip without fetchlands and tends to die but you really need the filtering to not flood out on lands and the card advantage. I run 4 in Vintage Jace is just that good.
Silumgar's Command is pretty sweet but would not play more then 1 as it costs 5. Declaration in Stone is not what a control deck wants. Giving the opponent a card in a long game control deck is not something you want to be doing. Have not tried Tragic Arrogance but in a primarily Black and Blue deck which wants BB and UU early, not sure we can support WW also.
Maindeck Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is not something I thought of at all till the pros did it I was adding more Dragons. I do run Kalitas in the board though for some match ups Kalitas just wins the game.
Declaration in Stone is great in an aggro deck where your removing their blocker and winning soon but not what a control deck that is grinding for advantage wants.
Epiphany at the Drownyard I tried week one and was very disappointed. Your opponent chooses what you get so you never get what you need. It does give you more cards if cast for a lot of mana but they tend to be worse cards then if you just cast a draw spell where you drew random cards your opponent did not pick the worse ones.
Here's the list I played:
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Dragonlord Silumgar
Instants (16)
4 Silumgar's Scorn
2 Anticipate
3 Ultimate Price
2 Grasp of Darkness
1 Negate
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Foul-Tongue Invocation
Sorceries (7)
2 Painful Truths
1 Read the Bones
1 Ruinous Path
3 Languish
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land (25)
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Prairie Stream
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Island
3 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
3 Choked Estuary
3 Duress
2 Virulent Plague
1 Dark Petition
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Negate
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Languish
1 Dispel
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Foul-Tongue Invocation
1 Flaying Tendrils
Lost to Goggles Ramp (matchup doesn't seem great), GW Tokens due to not having any idea how to sideboard correctly (boarded in 4th Languish instead of boarding some out, corrected the mistake day two and crushed it), a slower planeswalker version of Esper with Secure the Wastes and Westvale Abbey (somehow killed me game one though my Jace emblem and an active Sorin while he was at 3 life), Grixis in round 10 (got a game loss for showing up 30 seconds late and he proceeded to draw zero copies of Radiant Flames, Fiery Impulse, or any of the other bad cards on his side), and my last lost was to Martin Juza in a very close 3 games of the mirror.
Beat BW twice, GW twice, 4c Rites twice, Jund, Naya, GB Season's Past, and Grixis (eventual top 8 pilot Ralph Betesh, lol).
Overall, the deck felt reasonably powerful. 8/10 would recommend
I took a lot from PVDDR's article on CFB, and one of the suggestions I was on board with was cutting the 26th land and playing Anticipate. I think it did a lot for the deck, honestly. The only game that I can distinctly recall flooding was game one of the mirror against Martin, and the only game I can recall stumbling on my land drops was game two against Ramp where I got stuck on 5 with Prerogative and 2 DL Silumgars in hand when he cast World Breaker. I hit it with an Anguished Unmaking but he took me off of black and the follow-up World Breaker put the game away as I drew two more non-lands off the top. /storytime
tl;dr - play 25 lands and Anticipate. You'll thank me later.
I think i need to practice more I keep losing to "good match ups", like bant company, why can't I beat that deck :/? any tips? sideboard help?.
Is there anything I can do against RG eldrazi ramp? I feel like scooping and sitting the round out every-time I have to face it. I have infinite obliteration but I swear they always have both Ulamog and world-breaker in hand when I cast it. Also Thought knot, and sylvan advocate and other non- big eldrazi keep killing me before the titans come down while I am busy trying to deal with the ramp.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
First which list are you using? Did you tweak it for your own meta? Esper Dragon's can be a tool box deck, and after SB a lot of match ups improve.
Vs Ramp
you want to do something like this:
+2 Duress, +1 Transgress the Mind (I run 2 in the main already), +1 Dark Petition, +1 Infinite Obliteration, +2 Negate
-2 Ultimate Price, -2 Grasp of Darkness, -3 Languish
Cut the majority of Targeted removal, except Foul-Tongue Invocation. It's not an easy match up but you can shred their hand and stall them. My approach is always to strip ramp of it's end game, I take all threats that screw with my mana and hand.
My list:
4 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Dragonlord Silumgar
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Spells: 25
2 Painful Truths
1 Read the Bones
2 Anticipate
3 Foul-Tongue Invocation
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Ultimate Price
2 Grasp of darkness
3 Languish
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Silumgar's Scorn
2 Clash of Will
1 Silumgar's Command
3 Evolving Wilds
3 Swamp
4 Island
1 Plains
3 Choked Estuary
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Prairie Stream
2 Shambling Vent
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Transgress the Mind
2 Duress
2 Virulent Plague
1 Infinite Obliteration
2 Kaltias, Traitor of Ghet
2 Negate
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Dark Petition
1 Ultimate Price
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Vs Bant, it's not easy, that deck can actually net more CA than Esper Dragons, but the tools are there to fight back. I personally like clash, and permission against them. Obliterating Reflector Mage allows your dragons to stay on the battlefield.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
It's very hard (almost impossible, in fact) to control the board for an extensive period of time against Bant, but they're super soft to the dragon side of the deck. Your gameplan should revolve around soft permission to keep your life total high early, trying to keep a Scorn if you can, and resolving Ojutai on 5. From there, you become the beatdown deck and just tempo them out for 4 turns. Keep them from Reflecting your dragon back and the game should be over quickly.
I found it hard to run this deck in anything other than testing groups and small LGS events. Even then I lost to decks that just out valued me. Not having a U draw spell at Instant speed to restock or simply see more cards hurt the deck. The B draw spells are good but work better in midrange/ Tap out control decks. Esper wasn't a tap out deck perse as it could operate at Instant speed to look for answers. Not so anymore, most of your card drawing is done at sorcery speed.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I'm gonna get around to posting my list, hopefully tonight
that's what I was thinking, W mana seems hard to get that early
Manabase? No fetches but dual set of check and tap duals, one of the best man lands, a pain land, and more utility lands than you can shake a stick at.
Access to the best kill spells and counters in the game? Sign me up!
Reflector Mage, Kalitas, Ojutai, Silumgar, Icefall Regent, Linvala, Archangel Avacyn. The options are endless on how you can build and customize the deck.
With the option of running a discard or mill package and the best defense against Ultramog and Worldbreaker in Infinite Obiteration, Esper has mighty tools in which to own the competition.
As for the ramp match up? It's terrible. The 4 Ulamog and 4 World Breaker deck backed by K's return make Ojutai and his team very sad. It was different when Esper had Monastery Mentor and Dig Through Time to shore things up. Very few players use this deck as their go to control deck right now. Deck like Bant humans and G/W Tokens all generate more incremental CA by being more proactive.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I beat humans decks easily, I beat the BG sac deck, I beat all the other blue control decks, (Think esper dragons is still the best blue control deck, yeah even grixis)
I lose to ramp but I haven't seen it in ages, yes they can beat a resolved dragon they cast Ulamog and exile Ojutai and there is nothing I can do about it. Transgress is in the main but the rest of the cards you mentioned are all sideboard cards... you know what ramp decks do against me post sideboard?.. they play sylvan advocate and thought-knot seer and just play a mid range deck, I am set up to counter and strip ramp but they just beat me to death with creatures.
I lose to all Sylvan advocate + Tireless tracker + Den Protector decks. I have to kill each and every threat and then they come back again. They just have way more threats than I have answers and many of these decks can deal with Ojutai, To the slaughter, clipped wings, reflector mage. Plus difficult to deal with walkers. I can win these games, I they don't feel as unwinable as the ramp match up but I prefer to be beating up on mid range decks, right now they have way more card advantage than I do, they have to flood for me to win.
I lose to a resolved Gideon, typically while I am struggling with my mana and sometimes a late game Secure the wastes.
Seasons past > all esper card draw.
I have identified the problems, but I am struggling to find better answers there just seems to be way too many threats
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Think a big problem I had is not jamming any standard since switching back to this deck (from GB seasons past) so I didn't really know matchups or when to mull and keep so that cost me some matches
Without dig the deck is so inconsistent, painful truths draw 3 lands the most painful of truths. I am either going to straight give up come EMN or take a long hard look at what I can do to greatly increase the decks consistency.
Also I always want to side in and out so many things in the mid range match ups but I require the core of my deck so it works, I think that warrants something of a shuffle between main and side.
Perhaps I am going to bring an experimental version of the deck to FNM this week.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own