I dropped red and went straight g/b. I like the consistency of the mana base. Is there a reason to run red as another color that makes me win more?
[deck]b/g [/deck/}
Creatures
4 Sylvan advocate
4 Grim flayer
4 mindwrack demon
1 Nissa vastwood seer
Will probably add either tireless trackers and emrakul or more removal.
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I dropped red and went straight g/b. I like the consistency of the mana base. Is there a reason to run red as another color that makes me win more?
[deck]b/g [/deck/}
Creatures
4 Sylvan advocate
4 Grim flayer
4 mindwrack demon
1 Nissa vastwood seer
Will probably add either tireless trackers and emrakul or more removal.
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I don't see much appeal in olivia or Ulrich (mostly because GDD is the best 5-drop you can have and I don't want more of those), but Fiery Impulse is just clutch. Radiant Flames is also quite good and unique. Chandra is a great wincon and extra sweeper; just very versatile.
well, anyone can play whatever they feel like. In my opinion every other list is worse than mine. but don't post BG lists in the Jund thread at least.
I dropped red and went straight g/b. I like the consistency of the mana base. Is there a reason to run red as another color that makes me win more?
[deck]b/g [/deck/}
Creatures
4 Sylvan advocate
4 Grim flayer
4 mindwrack demon
1 Nissa vastwood seer
Will probably add either tireless trackers and emrakul or more removal.
You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I don't see much appeal in olivia or Ulrich (mostly because GDD is the best 5-drop you can have and I don't want more of those), but Fiery Impulse is just clutch. Radiant Flames is also quite good and unique. Chandra is a great wincon and extra sweeper; just very versatile.
well, anyone can play whatever they feel like. In my opinion every other list is worse than mine. but don't post BG lists in the Jund thread at least.
Ulrich on a Kalitas will be just nuts. 7/8 lifelink? Block I get a 2/2. Then you don't cast a spell Ulrich flips fights another guy giving you a 2/2. If you curve out perfectly with an Olivia t3 into a mindwrack t4 with discard to haste you get 8 damage t4 and t5 the Ulrich gives you the last 4 on a flyer to do 12. That's very powerful. What's GDD
It seems solid in my list. Id say creature heavy decks want Ulrich but spell based GDD could be good. I think a list with GDD is more control than midrange. What does everyone think of cryptbreaker/Kalitas late game draw engine? That's the reason for my 1-of in list and a way to activate delirium.
It seems solid in my list. Id say creature heavy decks want Ulrich but spell based GDD could be good. I think a list with GDD is more control than midrange. What does everyone think of cryptbreaker/Kalitas late game draw engine? That's the reason for my 1-of in list and a way to activate delirium.
if you have Kalitas and 3 zombies out you have already won the game. I really like the card but I doubt it's worth the slot.
GDD is one of the best cards you can play in standard, I don't mind whether it's more midrangy or controlling card. doesn't really matter. It's an evasive tempo efficient threat with CA attached to it.
I think testing will prove Ulrich a far superior card than GDD. The flip is a removal. It's initial ETB trigger will force a chump block. So if he gets 2 turns you just 2 for 1'd your opponent.
I think testing will prove Ulrich a far superior card than GDD. The flip is a removal. It's initial ETB trigger will force a chump block. So if he gets 2 turns you just 2 for 1'd your opponent.
context matters. opponent is only obliged to chump if you are winning the damage race. I would also like to remind you about the fact Reflector Mage is a card that exists.
EDIT: I don't hate Ulrich. the card seems good. but I don't want more 5 drops and GDD is much better in my list (and most other people's).
Anyone testing Eldritch Evolution? I think it has potential. If Jund is to become Tier 1 it needs solid answers to aggressive decks. I'm seeing potential in a T3 Kalitas rather consistently, whether it be from Eldritch Evolution sac a 2 drop like Primal Druid, get land tapped, and search deck for Kalitas; or from deathcap cultivator ramp into it with Kalitas in hand
Anyone testing Eldritch Evolution? I think it has potential. If Jund is to become Tier 1 it needs solid answers to aggressive decks. I'm seeing potential in a T3 Kalitas rather consistently, whether it be from Eldritch Evolution sac a 2 drop like Primal Druid, get land tapped, and search deck for Kalitas; or from deathclaw cultivator ramp into it with Kalitas in hand
Eldritch Evolution sounds like not a card you want to have against fast decks. having creatures survive a full turn is already a luxury. saccing your creature and spending another 3 to get a creature that gets RM'd all the same is very bad. lets not even talk what it means to add crappy 1-2-drops to your deck.
Kalitas has been kind of underwhelming after SOI rolled in. you really can't rely on Kalitas anymore. Sometimes it's good, of course, but certainly not anything to build around in the slightest. 4 mana is a lot right now.
EDIT: current list, went 4-0 on friday. beat GW tokens too.
There was an interesting list in the top 64 of the SCG Open. I am more of a GB player myself but his lists seems quite interesting. Chandra is a good sweeper that dodges Spell Queller shennanigans. What do you more experienced Jund players think about it ?
Note the number of mountains is wrong..I think it should be 1 Mountain and not 7. For a total of 25 lands and 60 cards.
I am not a fan of the Murnwillow. Also, I think Mindwrack Demon could be a good addition (with appropriate support in the mana base and deck to enable delirium). A big flyer seems the way to go right now.
There was an interesting list in the top 64 of the SCG Open. I am more of a GB player myself but his lists seems quite interesting. Chandra is a good sweeper that dodges Spell Queller shennanigans. What do you more experienced Jund players think about it ?
Note the number of mountains is wrong..I think it should be 1 Mountain and not 7. For a total of 25 lands and 60 cards.
I am not a fan of the Murnwillow. Also, I think Mindwrack Demon could be a good addition (with appropriate support in the mana base and deck to enable delirium). A big flyer seems the way to go right now.
Cheers
Yeah, not a fan at all. Also Mindwrack is horrible in this metagame. I don't understand what makes you think otherwise.
reflector mage likes to bounce Kalitas and Mindwrack. Huge tempo loss. 4 drops need to have a ETB/cast ability or hexproof. goblin dark-dwellers is really the best value creature Jund can run. The only other 5 mana spell that I can even think to run is Ob.
A lot of these lists could run dark petition and season's past; it's like 3 in the mb. What are people's findings on this?
After seeing SCG, I'm brewing a list in Jund. The new incinerate looks good to zap a queller or something.
I have not played with the Demon I confess.. I do not run something like him in my GB list. Just advocates and the usual suspects. What I noted however, is that in many games that lack of flying in my creatures (unable to block G-Boon enchanted creatures, spell Quellers, Avacyn, etc.) has led to several game losses. A friend of mine plays him in a BR control version and has been having success with him.
My impression is that he is a solid flyer that can trade favorably with the relevant flyers, can block and survive a 4/5 advocate, can go over the top to kill PWs (very relevant in GW matchups), survives languish, and feed Goblin DD shenanigans. I may be wrong though as I have little experience with Jund colors in this meta.
Is anybody talking about grim flayer? He seems strong in the right shell. Saw he dropped 5$ maybe overhyped?
Thinking of a shell that supports big trample guys (mindwrack and grim). The R/G mythics serve a more supportive role this standard. Arlinn and Ulrich both buff and remove blockers. Liliana protects your attackers and pushes 1 more damage through by -1 toughness creatures. The only question is how fast can a deck like that put your opponent on there heels.
Sample list
4 Deathcap Cultivator
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
1 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Ultimate Price
I think it has the right amount of redundancy. Olivia and Arlinn enable haste. Arlinn's vigilance is awesome with your big trample dudes. Both Planeswalkers protect themselves. Ulrich and Arlinn make your trample guys stronger.
I have not played with the Demon I confess.. I do not run something like him in my GB list. Just advocates and the usual suspects. What I noted however, is that in many games that lack of flying in my creatures (unable to block G-Boon enchanted creatures, spell Quellers, Avacyn, etc.) has led to several game losses. A friend of mine plays him in a BR control version and has been having success with him.
My impression is that he is a solid flyer that can trade favorably with the relevant flyers, can block and survive a 4/5 advocate, can go over the top to kill PWs (very relevant in GW matchups), survives languish, and feed Goblin DD shenanigans. I may be wrong though as I have little experience with Jund colors in this meta.
I played with Demon for a month or so and that was a huge waste. I was just fooling myself. The card is quite good but in this meta it just stinks. Kalitas is the only 4-drop without a board impacting ETB ability I'd run.
I see. In my GB list I run 2 x den protector, 3 x deathmist raptor as an antiaggro package MD that can 'recur' itself. The raptor works wonders as he can block almost everything profitably (minus the flyers I mentioned in my last post of course =P..thus my thoughts on the demon) and can also be a solid attacker if one needs to close games fast. Do you think it is worth in jund colors? Seems like a good engine with the new Liliana.
I see. In my GB list I run 2 x den protector, 3 x deathmist raptor as an antiaggro package MD that can 'recur' itself. The raptor works wonders as he can block almost everything profitably (minus the flyers I mentioned in my last post of course =P..thus my thoughts on the demon) and can also be a solid attacker if one needs to close games fast. Do you think it is worth in jund colors? Seems like a good engine with the new Liliana.
Well, there isn't a consensus jund list, but I'm not too fond of Raptor. Thing is, you really can't rely on blocking and sitting back to carry you through a game. RM punishes that too. You want the minimum amount of threats and a ton of cheap interactive spells. Tracker and GDD are great threats that also prevent you from falling behind in value against CoCo and Recruiter and other cards.
Thanks for the reply. Your points are all good. I guess I was trying to look at the deck as a GB list with extra tools but I missed that the Goblin actually opens new possibilities. I also like how chandra provides a fast clock and a way to sweep the board that avoids spell queller. However, I am wondering about your lack of mass removal (languish or radiant flames) in the MD. Is it not good/necessary vs bant? I expect that deck to be most of the meta in the RPTQ in over a month if it keeps being successful (although Baltimore will give more info).
Thanks for the reply. Your points are all good. I guess I was trying to look at the deck as a GB list with extra tools but I missed that the Goblin actually opens new possibilities. I also like how chandra provides a fast clock and a way to sweep the board that avoids spell queller. However, I am wondering about your lack of mass removal (languish or radiant flames) in the MD. Is it not good/necessary vs bant? I expect that deck to be most of the meta in the RPTQ in over a month if it keeps being successful (although Baltimore will give more info).
Cheers
Problem with sweepers is they often compromise your own board development as well, and getting ahead on the board is your best plan. It's really not enough to sweep the board even once or twice, since the Bant decks can rebuild from scratch so easily. Cards like Tireless Tracker and Duskwatch Recruiter will generate infinite value if you give the Bant player too much time. Then we also have Spell Queller and Collected Company itself (and Selfless Spirit), which make board sweeps lose their impact. I don't sideboard any Radiant Flames in against Bant. I board in all the cheap spot removal, cut the Ruinous Paths.
Ugin is going to get really bad once all the fatties are colourless. I sold all mine. Sell sell sell!
He's going to be absolutely rotten. Hangarback walker has already nerfed him quite significantly. I reckon he'll be $3 junk within 2 months of rotation
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You lose out on cheap early removal, a solid creature in olivia, and also Ulrich; which if played correctly should win you the matchup by generating massive CA.
I don't see much appeal in olivia or Ulrich (mostly because GDD is the best 5-drop you can have and I don't want more of those), but Fiery Impulse is just clutch. Radiant Flames is also quite good and unique. Chandra is a great wincon and extra sweeper; just very versatile.
well, anyone can play whatever they feel like. In my opinion every other list is worse than mine. but don't post BG lists in the Jund thread at least.
Youtube Channel
Ulrich on a Kalitas will be just nuts. 7/8 lifelink? Block I get a 2/2. Then you don't cast a spell Ulrich flips fights another guy giving you a 2/2. If you curve out perfectly with an Olivia t3 into a mindwrack t4 with discard to haste you get 8 damage t4 and t5 the Ulrich gives you the last 4 on a flyer to do 12. That's very powerful. What's GDD
your scenarios sound like pipe dreams tbh, but I wish you luck in tournaments.
Youtube Channel
if you have Kalitas and 3 zombies out you have already won the game. I really like the card but I doubt it's worth the slot.
GDD is one of the best cards you can play in standard, I don't mind whether it's more midrangy or controlling card. doesn't really matter. It's an evasive tempo efficient threat with CA attached to it.
Youtube Channel
context matters. opponent is only obliged to chump if you are winning the damage race. I would also like to remind you about the fact Reflector Mage is a card that exists.
EDIT: I don't hate Ulrich. the card seems good. but I don't want more 5 drops and GDD is much better in my list (and most other people's).
Youtube Channel
not sure what you mean by control here. my advice is to play the best cards your card pool allows you to. doesn't matter what's in the title.
Youtube Channel
Eldritch Evolution sounds like not a card you want to have against fast decks. having creatures survive a full turn is already a luxury. saccing your creature and spending another 3 to get a creature that gets RM'd all the same is very bad. lets not even talk what it means to add crappy 1-2-drops to your deck.
seriously, the answers are so obvious. we have all the tempo tools that actually matter. Fiery Impulse; Rending Volley; Radiant Flames; Ultimate Price. Trading up on mana with these cards is how you wreck aggro decks.
Kalitas has been kind of underwhelming after SOI rolled in. you really can't rely on Kalitas anymore. Sometimes it's good, of course, but certainly not anything to build around in the slightest. 4 mana is a lot right now.
EDIT: current list, went 4-0 on friday. beat GW tokens too.
1 Read the Bones
2 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Ruinous Path
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Ultimate Price
1 Arlinn Kord
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Hissing Quagmire
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Forest
2 Cinder Glade
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Smoldering Marsh
1 Game Trail
1 Foreboding Ruins
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Rending Volley
2 Roast
1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower
3 Radiant Flames
2 Read the Bones
1 Kolaghan's Command
Youtube Channel
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105575
Note the number of mountains is wrong..I think it should be 1 Mountain and not 7. For a total of 25 lands and 60 cards.
I am not a fan of the Murnwillow. Also, I think Mindwrack Demon could be a good addition (with appropriate support in the mana base and deck to enable delirium). A big flyer seems the way to go right now.
Cheers
Yeah, not a fan at all. Also Mindwrack is horrible in this metagame. I don't understand what makes you think otherwise.
Youtube Channel
A lot of these lists could run dark petition and season's past; it's like 3 in the mb. What are people's findings on this?
After seeing SCG, I'm brewing a list in Jund. The new incinerate looks good to zap a queller or something.
My impression is that he is a solid flyer that can trade favorably with the relevant flyers, can block and survive a 4/5 advocate, can go over the top to kill PWs (very relevant in GW matchups), survives languish, and feed Goblin DD shenanigans. I may be wrong though as I have little experience with Jund colors in this meta.
Thinking of a shell that supports big trample guys (mindwrack and grim). The R/G mythics serve a more supportive role this standard. Arlinn and Ulrich both buff and remove blockers. Liliana protects your attackers and pushes 1 more damage through by -1 toughness creatures. The only question is how fast can a deck like that put your opponent on there heels.
Sample list
4 Deathcap Cultivator
4 Grim Flayer
2 Olivia Mobilized for War
4 Mindwrack Demon
1 Ulrich of the Krallenhorde
4 Liliana, The Last Hope
3 Arlinn Kord
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Ruinous Path
4 Galvanic Bombardment
2 Ultimate Price
I think it has the right amount of redundancy. Olivia and Arlinn enable haste. Arlinn's vigilance is awesome with your big trample dudes. Both Planeswalkers protect themselves. Ulrich and Arlinn make your trample guys stronger.
I played with Demon for a month or so and that was a huge waste. I was just fooling myself. The card is quite good but in this meta it just stinks. Kalitas is the only 4-drop without a board impacting ETB ability I'd run.
Fiery Impulse is good.
Youtube Channel
Well, there isn't a consensus jund list, but I'm not too fond of Raptor. Thing is, you really can't rely on blocking and sitting back to carry you through a game. RM punishes that too. You want the minimum amount of threats and a ton of cheap interactive spells. Tracker and GDD are great threats that also prevent you from falling behind in value against CoCo and Recruiter and other cards.
Youtube Channel
Cheers
Problem with sweepers is they often compromise your own board development as well, and getting ahead on the board is your best plan. It's really not enough to sweep the board even once or twice, since the Bant decks can rebuild from scratch so easily. Cards like Tireless Tracker and Duskwatch Recruiter will generate infinite value if you give the Bant player too much time. Then we also have Spell Queller and Collected Company itself (and Selfless Spirit), which make board sweeps lose their impact. I don't sideboard any Radiant Flames in against Bant. I board in all the cheap spot removal, cut the Ruinous Paths.
Youtube Channel
3 oath of nissa
4 galvanic bombardment
4 sylvan advocate
3 grim flayer
3 ultimate price
1 roast
1 ob nixilis
2 liliana
2 kolaghans command
3 ruinous path
1 bedlam reveler
1 Chandra
4 hissing quagmire
2 kalitas
3 cinder glade
4 tireless tracker
2 goblin dark dwellers
4 evolving wilds
3 smoldering marsh
5 forest
3 swamp
2 mountain
And possible options would be
Sin Prodder
Den Protector
Arlin cord