I think your local meta dictates what kind of cards you should be using in this jund world. We have our obvious value cards we can't be without, but tuning it to beat the meta will give you the best opportunities. This may mean switching between card choices if you end up going to somewhere other than your favorite game store.
This is definitely the truth. If the meta is super heavy on Aristocrats, Tokens and CoCo, up your sweepers and your removal accordingly and expect a spike of difficulty against ramp and control. If the opposite is true, then push a more aggressive creature strat at the expense of a more uphill battle against other, faster aggro decks. We can't have our cake and eat it too, but at least we can choose the topping for it.
here's an extract from the latest Turtenwald's article on cfb:
"I think by far the worst card in the deck is The Gitrog Monster, which is a disappointment because I had to play all day with it in my deck and it was so terrible I had to sideboard it out no matter what my opponent was playing. Sad, because it’s such a sweet card."
I'm still 50/50 on it. The thing about it is that it isn't actually a threat to win the game. In many cases it's just a 6/6 that gets chump blocked every time it attacks. There are way too many creatures in all the top decks for it to get damage through. Really wish it has trample instead of death touch
upped the number of paths. prodders are for GW tokens which seems like the toughest MU. playing all different removal pretty much. plague felt meh in the board. kalitas is a beast, still.
Another issue I have with the deck at the moment is instant speed removal, ultimate price is good, but doesn't do a lot vs bant company (reflector mage, bounding crasis are the biggest issues in the deck) and I've only recently started playing standard, not sure what there is in the way of instant removal currently.
Grasp of darkness is the most catch-all. Fiery impulse and kolaghan's command are also good in the current meta.
Ok so I plan to go to the NY thing this weekend and I'm kind of stumped right now about Jund. Sometimes it works great. Sometimes... It doesn't. I think the tap lands really hurt us, especially if we have a keepable hand but we have three etb tapped lands to start, I feel like it really slows us down.
But here's a question- why play Jund over say Bant Company or G/W tokens? What can we do that puts this deck choice over the others?
I personally go for a more Jund control list... Here is an example
Your list is really close to mine. And I like this list a lot.
The reason to go Jund is because you have a lot of 2 for 1, you have a lot of cheap removal, you have access to sweepers that take care of Avacyn, the deck can grind, have a game against control and aggro. Like the modern equivalent, you are near 50/50 in any matchup.
The reason to not go Jund is because the deck can sometimes fail to itself because of the mana base. Everyone saying they didn't have any problem of mana haven't tested enough, you'll always have at least one hand where you're screwed of one color or always playing 1 turn behind in a 9 to 15 rounds tournament. ***** happens. And when you're playing 3 colors in this standard, it will happen for sure.
In my list I upped to 3 ruinous path too. I often found myself screwed because of a Turn 3 Nissa or a turn 4 Gideon. Ruinous Path is awful as a card but a necessary evil against planeswalker.
I wouldn't recommend Ob Nixilis main board. Often times, it will be a 5cmc kill spell. You really don't want this. I leave it to the Sideboard where it shines.
I only run 2 Chandra and 1 Ultimate Price. But I can see myself adding another chandra, I don't totally like Ultimate Price, it can really stick in your hand against Bant or Eldrazi's deck.
Making room for a To The Slaughter (Main answer to a flipped abbey or against Control Deck).
And 2 Transgress the mind main, this card is just bonkers, discarding a gideon, a draw spell, an ojutai, an avacyn. it does everything you want mainboard. And it can be flashed back by GDD.
I would also try to lower to 2 sweepers main (1 Radiant and 1 Languish maybe ?) depending on what you expect to face, because you really don't want sweepers against ramp or control matchup so having 3 of them main may be a lot.
Otherwise I find your list and manabase really close to what I like about Jund in this meta.
Thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to read your report!
Honestly, Ruinous Path is great. Casted it for awaken is one of the best moves you can do late game especially against control... since you still get the 4/4 land if it gets countered!
I will make some changes you suggested. My FNM meta is very... aggro creature heavy so it was a good move spell over say Tireless Tracker.
I too enjoy 2 transgress the mind in the mainboard. In the current meta it seems to have valid targets against just about everybody. @punchbot, i do like your list it's similar to my list and it seems to be what i's sort of drifting towards.
Also some other notes. I think the deck is super strong, the main problem for me has been the mana base, too many of my lands seem to come into play tapped. Additionally I was running 3 foreboding ruins, 1 game trail, 3 cinder glade, 3 smoldering marsh, 4 quagmires, and 2 evolving wilds... I'm more and more finding the show lands to be not so great outside of casting a fiery impulse turn one.
Lastly both versions of the cryptolith rites deck seem to be tough match-ups due to how many angles they can attack from.
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Honestly, Ruinous Path is great. Casted it for awaken is one of the best moves you can do late game especially against control... since you still get the 4/4 land if it gets countered!
That's not true. If Ruinous Path is countered, the entire spell, including the spell ability that's a part of awaken, gets countered. In fact, if you awaken a spell that normally lacks a target, like Planar Outburst, your opponent could fizzle that spell if they have a way to remove that land (which is now the spell's only target) in response.
On the flip side, awakening Ruinous Path might let you avoid that same problem if you expect them to bounce or flicker its first target (so long as the land target continues to exist, some of the Path's targets are still legal, so it continues to resolve), which might have been what you meant.
But here's a question- why play Jund over say Bant Company or G/W tokens? What can we do that puts this deck choice over the others?
I have been wondering this myself lately.
We have access to powerful BB spells like Ruinous Path, Infinite Obliteration and Languish.
We have access to Chandra and Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
We have access to Green as well for above curve p/t creatures and Nissa, VS.
Also, we don't have to pay the outrageous prices for Declaration in Stone, CoCo, and Archangel Avacyn.
I think G/W Tokens and Bant company have bad matchups vs G/B rites decks, which can chump and combo out those decks.
On the contrary, we have a GREAT matchup against G/B Rites.
Ramp should have been better this meta, but for some reason it never took off, probably because it doesn't have a 3 dmg sweeper and few ways to get Kozilek's Return into the graveyard without screwing up your ramp (for a T5 World Breaker activation).
If we had a surefire way to beat Bant CoCo and G/W tokens, I think we'd be seeing a lot more Jund, but, as it is those are very tough matchups that we cannot reliably win, especially if we are on the draw. Our games are grind fests and we go to time a lot. I think a lot of people don't like to play those sorts of decks.
One question though- do we really need to play Transgress the Mind over Duress? I feel like there is very little actual graveyard recursion going on right now and we might be better served by going lower with our hand disruption.
Went 2-1 again at Game Day, lost to GB aristocrats, where basically he had to rip one specific card off the top to win and he did so in Game 1 and 2. At least that match-up isn't as one sided as Bant Coco(the hardest deck for me to beat IMO).
Reasons for changes:
Tried out Tireless Tracker and Woodland Bellower, never felt like they were something I needed to cast to win, so out they go.
I am going to try out two mainboard Trangress(but I usually have meh luck with the card for some reason), I took out Clip Wings then lost Game 2 to GB Aristocrats to the land Demon so I will put those back is the side for him. Got double Kalitas in hand a few times with K Command to bring one back from the yard, so I am cutting him down to two(plus Traverse can fetch). I like having 4 Languish in the 75, I faced a Mono-W Human deck round 1 and proceeded to rip 3 off the top and bring one back with Den Protector(I started using them as one creature kill spells I had so many )
In regards to the manabase, I also strayed away from the new shadowlands. I'm down to a single Game Trail and it has worked well, but I ended up replacing it with a basic Mountain. Too many times I'm stuck with a single red source and unable to fix my colors with Wilds or Traverse because I have the single Mountain already in my hand or the field. It's also embarrassing when Nissa, Vastwood Seer comes down and you forget that all your basic Forests are already in play, hahaha.
In other news, played a game against ramp where the bro had 17 counters on his Tireless Tracker. Waiting for the Ruinous Path that was never gonna be cast because he had three Warping Wail in his hand.
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Yesterday was all I had. Today is all I have. Tomorrow is all I want.
One question though- do we really need to play Transgress the Mind over Duress? I feel like there is very little actual graveyard recursion going on right now and we might be better served by going lower with our hand disruption.
Transgress block flashback shenanigans (Den Protector, Goblins Dank Dwellers, Jace, World Breaker are common things).
Also it hits the same and more targets that you want to hit with Duress.
Things that you really want to remove that aren't hit by Duress :
-Dark Dwellers
-Dragonlord Ojutai
-Avacyn
-Husk
-Liliana
-World Breaker
-Dragonlord Atarka
Things that you really want to remove that aren't hit by Transgress :
???
Things that you really want to remove that aren't hit by Transgress :
???
That's why I prefer Transgress over Duress.
I'm really interested in tuning our sideboard to improve our matchup against Bant CoCo and G/W Tokens. I feel very comfortable against the other archetypes at the moment and want to cheat towards beating those decks since they are going to be so prominent in the meta over the coming weeks. Maybe not everyone is playing Bant CoCo or G/W Tokens, but 2/3rds of the people you will face in the elimination matches are.
Transgress can't grab a Negate, which is a big problem since we rely heavily on removal and sweepers. Negate is why I lost my match against Bant CoCo. If your Languish gets stuffed, you just got blown out.
Duress also hit's Dromoka's Command or Declaration in Stone, which are very dangerous cards for them to be holding.
Duress can also put a planeswalker in the graveyard, which is pretty mana intensive to get out. Also, I don't really see many opposing Den Protectors these days.
I think most of the big targets that you mentioned can be best handled via Infinite Obliteration.
Jace is not really that great for Bant CoCo. I've never been without removal capable of dealing with him before he can flip. The bigger worry for me is that they beat you to death with a flashed Bounding Krasis, which they can ably defend with Negate, Dromoka's Command, or clear the path for with Declaration in Stone.
I prefer duress over transgress against gw tokens. transgress hits Avacyn, which is good, but can be answered with removal. duress hits secure, which is a bigger problem spell for us (especially when they have an Abbey out) and also d-command, which is big you play with virulent plague. moreover, you can't beat GW without being aggressive and the difference between 1 and 2 mana is HUGE.
I wouldn't play any hand disruption against bant. board is the only thing that matters.
Bringing or having Duress main against a deck that beat you down with cheap creatures and cheap removal is not the position I want to be I think.
You were talking about being beaten down by bounding krasis. Transgress can take it off before it enter the battlefield
Sure you're not able to take a DCommand or a Declaration in Stone.
But the range of card you can take with Transgress is much wider. Reflector Mage is also a threat that put you back on tempo and can't be answered before by duress while Transgress can remove it.
Using this decklist : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/409465#online
Against Bant CoCo, with Transgress you have 18 Targets.
With duress, you have 6 Targets.
Even if they bring in the 2 Declaration and 3 Negate, it's still 11 targets against 18.
I checked other decklists of Bant CoCo and it's near the same every time, Transgress hit double the targets Duress hit.
I can't have a Main Board answer to everything but imo Transgress is a wider answer than duress is. Even after sideboard.
Bringing or having Duress main against a deck that beat you down with cheap creatures and cheap removal is not the position I want to be I think.
You were talking about being beaten down by bounding krasis. Transgress can take it off before it enter the battlefield
Sure you're not able to take a DCommand or a Declaration in Stone.
But the range of card you can take with Transgress is much wider. Reflector Mage is also a threat that put you back on tempo and can't be answered before by duress while Transgress can remove it.
Using this decklist : http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/409465#online
Against Bant CoCo, with Transgress you have 18 Targets.
With duress, you have 6 Targets.
Even if they bring in the 2 Declaration and 3 Negate, it's still 11 targets against 18.
I checked other decklists of Bant CoCo and it's near the same every time, Transgress hit double the targets Duress hit.
I can't have a Main Board answer to everything but imo Transgress is a wider answer than duress is. Even after sideboard.
Tested this a bit earlier and it went very well. Beat Bant CoCo and a Mono Blue turns deck. Felt like I had a lot of game against Bant with this build. Pia and Kiran were great. I killed a Duskwatch Recruiter and a Jace, VP with Pia and Kiran sac'ing Thopter Tokens for great value. Kolaghan's Command seemed to always have a target between Recruiter, Tireless Tracker and Jace, VP. Den Protector with Duress at 6 mana was incredibly good v the turns deck and should provide a good angle against all control archetypes. Duress always hit targets and feels totally main-deck-able right now. Had Ultimate Price in the side, but it didn't come up for me against Bant.
Are you fine running that many Kommands? I would suggest upping the count of GDD or one of your draw spells... also, is 24 lands really good enough? Toying with 3 colors and that much land feels like playing with fire. Once you have Languish on the main, you can afford to cut some kill spells, I feel.
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I was flooding out with 25 lands and wanted to up the threat density. Also, I think 4 Traverse should count as at least 1.5/2 virtual land, as per Frank Karsten recommendations. I only had time to run 2 full matches with this last night, but I did not have trouble ramping to GDD or Chandra whatsoever.
K Command seemed super good every time I had it. I did alot of casting of unflipped Den Protectors, would chump and bring them back as necessary. If you get multiples, just chump a DP and combine a K Command to trade up against a 3-4 toughness creature, then use the next K Command to bring it back.
Re Pulse: originally had 2 Pulse/2 K Command split there before, but drawing a 2nd Pulse felt really bad a few times when I was really needing gas. Would rather have had K Comm.
The whole idea here is to streamline so we can get reliably underneath Bant CoCo. It seemed to work. I still think that matchup is tough, but it seemed way, way more winnable with these changes. I'm sure it can be improved upon in some way though.
This deck, with only 12 threats, is def more towards the full-on control route. 2 Infinite O SB should handle ramp just fine. We can play through a Chandra or an Atarka just fine. You might lose some life or some board, but it's not that bad.
So my dark dweller teammate has been winning all the events we have been going to which made me decide to sleeve up his deck. It's a spicy brew that uses hangerback walkers to help enable delerium. Also 3 main deck transgress the mind. If anyone wants the list I can post it here.
Thanks! What does your meta consist of? I feel like one ruinous path even with a pretty much guaranteed delirium-to the slaugther is pretty risky. Also, only one sweeper. Are the rest of the sweepers in the SB or are you guys consistently hitting 1-for-1 removal?
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This is definitely the truth. If the meta is super heavy on Aristocrats, Tokens and CoCo, up your sweepers and your removal accordingly and expect a spike of difficulty against ramp and control. If the opposite is true, then push a more aggressive creature strat at the expense of a more uphill battle against other, faster aggro decks. We can't have our cake and eat it too, but at least we can choose the topping for it.
I would input that Clip Wings and Ruinous Path are near-necessities among all the options, as well as Dark Petition and Virulent Plague.
As a side note, does anyone think Atarka's Command has a spot in a more aggro Jund list?
Standard: N G A W Y R A
Commander: G U B Damia
"I think by far the worst card in the deck is The Gitrog Monster, which is a disappointment because I had to play all day with it in my deck and it was so terrible I had to sideboard it out no matter what my opponent was playing. Sad, because it’s such a sweet card."
Youtube Channel
2 Read the Bones
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ruinous Path
2 Fiery Impulse
2 Ultimate Price
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Arlinn Kord
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Deathcap Cultivator
2 Sylvan Advocate
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Mindwrack Demon
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Dragonlord Atarka
4 Hissing Quagmire
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Forest
3 Cinder Glade
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Smoldering Marsh
3 Sin Prodder
2 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Conclave Naturalists
1 Roast
1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Radiant Flames
1 Painful Truths
1 Clip Wings
upped the number of paths. prodders are for GW tokens which seems like the toughest MU. playing all different removal pretty much. plague felt meh in the board. kalitas is a beast, still.
Youtube Channel
Grasp of darkness is the most catch-all. Fiery impulse and kolaghan's command are also good in the current meta.
But here's a question- why play Jund over say Bant Company or G/W tokens? What can we do that puts this deck choice over the others?
I personally go for a more Jund control list... Here is an example
4 Sylvan Advocate
2 Den Protector
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ob nixilus, Reignited
3 Fiery Impulse
3 Radiant Flames
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Ultimate price
3 Ruinous Path
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Read the bones
2 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Swamp
3 Evolving wilds
4 Smoldering marsh
3 Cinder Glade
1 Game trail
Sideboard I'm changing but it will have Languish, another Ob nix, ruinous path, dark petition and seasons past.
The reason to go Jund is because you have a lot of 2 for 1, you have a lot of cheap removal, you have access to sweepers that take care of Avacyn, the deck can grind, have a game against control and aggro. Like the modern equivalent, you are near 50/50 in any matchup.
The reason to not go Jund is because the deck can sometimes fail to itself because of the mana base. Everyone saying they didn't have any problem of mana haven't tested enough, you'll always have at least one hand where you're screwed of one color or always playing 1 turn behind in a 9 to 15 rounds tournament. ***** happens. And when you're playing 3 colors in this standard, it will happen for sure.
In my list I upped to 3 ruinous path too. I often found myself screwed because of a Turn 3 Nissa or a turn 4 Gideon. Ruinous Path is awful as a card but a necessary evil against planeswalker.
I wouldn't recommend Ob Nixilis main board. Often times, it will be a 5cmc kill spell. You really don't want this. I leave it to the Sideboard where it shines.
I only run 2 Chandra and 1 Ultimate Price. But I can see myself adding another chandra, I don't totally like Ultimate Price, it can really stick in your hand against Bant or Eldrazi's deck.
Making room for a To The Slaughter (Main answer to a flipped abbey or against Control Deck).
And 2 Transgress the mind main, this card is just bonkers, discarding a gideon, a draw spell, an ojutai, an avacyn. it does everything you want mainboard. And it can be flashed back by GDD.
I would also try to lower to 2 sweepers main (1 Radiant and 1 Languish maybe ?) depending on what you expect to face, because you really don't want sweepers against ramp or control matchup so having 3 of them main may be a lot.
Otherwise I find your list and manabase really close to what I like about Jund in this meta.
Thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to read your report!
I will make some changes you suggested. My FNM meta is very... aggro creature heavy so it was a good move spell over say Tireless Tracker.
I will let you know of the results.
Also some other notes. I think the deck is super strong, the main problem for me has been the mana base, too many of my lands seem to come into play tapped. Additionally I was running 3 foreboding ruins, 1 game trail, 3 cinder glade, 3 smoldering marsh, 4 quagmires, and 2 evolving wilds... I'm more and more finding the show lands to be not so great outside of casting a fiery impulse turn one.
Lastly both versions of the cryptolith rites deck seem to be tough match-ups due to how many angles they can attack from.
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
That's not true. If Ruinous Path is countered, the entire spell, including the spell ability that's a part of awaken, gets countered. In fact, if you awaken a spell that normally lacks a target, like Planar Outburst, your opponent could fizzle that spell if they have a way to remove that land (which is now the spell's only target) in response.
On the flip side, awakening Ruinous Path might let you avoid that same problem if you expect them to bounce or flicker its first target (so long as the land target continues to exist, some of the Path's targets are still legal, so it continues to resolve), which might have been what you meant.
I have been wondering this myself lately.
We have access to powerful BB spells like Ruinous Path, Infinite Obliteration and Languish.
We have access to Chandra and Goblin Dark-Dwellers.
We have access to Green as well for above curve p/t creatures and Nissa, VS.
Also, we don't have to pay the outrageous prices for Declaration in Stone, CoCo, and Archangel Avacyn.
I think G/W Tokens and Bant company have bad matchups vs G/B rites decks, which can chump and combo out those decks.
On the contrary, we have a GREAT matchup against G/B Rites.
Ramp should have been better this meta, but for some reason it never took off, probably because it doesn't have a 3 dmg sweeper and few ways to get Kozilek's Return into the graveyard without screwing up your ramp (for a T5 World Breaker activation).
If we had a surefire way to beat Bant CoCo and G/W tokens, I think we'd be seeing a lot more Jund, but, as it is those are very tough matchups that we cannot reliably win, especially if we are on the draw. Our games are grind fests and we go to time a lot. I think a lot of people don't like to play those sorts of decks.
One question though- do we really need to play Transgress the Mind over Duress? I feel like there is very little actual graveyard recursion going on right now and we might be better served by going lower with our hand disruption.
EDH: UBRJeleva | GURSurrak
Here is my updated list:
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Sylvan Advocate
3 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
2 Den Protector
Spells:
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Languish
1 Dark Petition
1 To the Slaughter
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Ruinous Path
1 Ultimate Price
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Read the Bones
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Dead Weight
Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Lands:
2 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Swamp
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Cinder Glade
3 Hissing Quagmire
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Foreboding Ruins
3 Languish
1 Infinite Obliteration
2 Duress
2 Clip Wings
1 Tainted Remedy
1 Virulent Plague
1 Conclave Naturalist
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Seasons Past
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Reasons for changes:
Tried out Tireless Tracker and Woodland Bellower, never felt like they were something I needed to cast to win, so out they go.
I am going to try out two mainboard Trangress(but I usually have meh luck with the card for some reason), I took out Clip Wings then lost Game 2 to GB Aristocrats to the land Demon so I will put those back is the side for him. Got double Kalitas in hand a few times with K Command to bring one back from the yard, so I am cutting him down to two(plus Traverse can fetch). I like having 4 Languish in the 75, I faced a Mono-W Human deck round 1 and proceeded to rip 3 off the top and bring one back with Den Protector(I started using them as one creature kill spells I had so many )
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
In other news, played a game against ramp where the bro had 17 counters on his Tireless Tracker. Waiting for the Ruinous Path that was never gonna be cast because he had three Warping Wail in his hand.
Standard: N G A W Y R A
Commander: G U B Damia
Transgress block flashback shenanigans (Den Protector, Goblins Dank Dwellers, Jace, World Breaker are common things).
Also it hits the same and more targets that you want to hit with Duress.
Things that you really want to remove that aren't hit by Duress :
-Dark Dwellers
-Dragonlord Ojutai
-Avacyn
-Husk
-Liliana
-World Breaker
-Dragonlord Atarka
Things that you really want to remove that aren't hit by Transgress :
???
That's why I prefer Transgress over Duress.
I'm really interested in tuning our sideboard to improve our matchup against Bant CoCo and G/W Tokens. I feel very comfortable against the other archetypes at the moment and want to cheat towards beating those decks since they are going to be so prominent in the meta over the coming weeks. Maybe not everyone is playing Bant CoCo or G/W Tokens, but 2/3rds of the people you will face in the elimination matches are.
Transgress can't grab a Negate, which is a big problem since we rely heavily on removal and sweepers. Negate is why I lost my match against Bant CoCo. If your Languish gets stuffed, you just got blown out.
Duress also hit's Dromoka's Command or Declaration in Stone, which are very dangerous cards for them to be holding.
Duress can also put a planeswalker in the graveyard, which is pretty mana intensive to get out. Also, I don't really see many opposing Den Protectors these days.
I think most of the big targets that you mentioned can be best handled via Infinite Obliteration.
Jace is not really that great for Bant CoCo. I've never been without removal capable of dealing with him before he can flip. The bigger worry for me is that they beat you to death with a flashed Bounding Krasis, which they can ably defend with Negate, Dromoka's Command, or clear the path for with Declaration in Stone.
EDH: UBRJeleva | GURSurrak
I wouldn't play any hand disruption against bant. board is the only thing that matters.
Youtube Channel
You were talking about being beaten down by bounding krasis. Transgress can take it off before it enter the battlefield
Sure you're not able to take a DCommand or a Declaration in Stone.
But the range of card you can take with Transgress is much wider. Reflector Mage is also a threat that put you back on tempo and can't be answered before by duress while Transgress can remove it.
Using this decklist :
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/409465#online
Against Bant CoCo, with Transgress you have 18 Targets.
With duress, you have 6 Targets.
Even if they bring in the 2 Declaration and 3 Negate, it's still 11 targets against 18.
I checked other decklists of Bant CoCo and it's near the same every time, Transgress hit double the targets Duress hit.
I can't have a Main Board answer to everything but imo Transgress is a wider answer than duress is. Even after sideboard.
you don't beat tempo with 2-mana discard spells
Youtube Channel
3 Sylvan Advocate
4 Den Protector
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Enchantments (2):
2 Sinister Concoction
Instants (8):
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Pulse of Murasa
Sorceries (14):
3 Ruinous Path
2 Duress
1 Dark Petition
1 Painful Truths
1 Read the Bones
2 Languish
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Mountain
4 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Cinder Glade
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Painful Truths
1 Duress
2 Kozilek's Return
1 World Breaker
2 To the Slaughter
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Ultimate Price
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Pulse of Murasa
EDH: UBRJeleva | GURSurrak
Standard: N G A W Y R A
Commander: G U B Damia
K Command seemed super good every time I had it. I did alot of casting of unflipped Den Protectors, would chump and bring them back as necessary. If you get multiples, just chump a DP and combine a K Command to trade up against a 3-4 toughness creature, then use the next K Command to bring it back.
Re Pulse: originally had 2 Pulse/2 K Command split there before, but drawing a 2nd Pulse felt really bad a few times when I was really needing gas. Would rather have had K Comm.
The whole idea here is to streamline so we can get reliably underneath Bant CoCo. It seemed to work. I still think that matchup is tough, but it seemed way, way more winnable with these changes. I'm sure it can be improved upon in some way though.
This deck, with only 12 threats, is def more towards the full-on control route. 2 Infinite O SB should handle ramp just fine. We can play through a Chandra or an Atarka just fine. You might lose some life or some board, but it's not that bad.
EDH: UBRJeleva | GURSurrak
Modern
GWBAbzan CompanyGWB
Pauper
UGU/G BeatsUG
4x Hanger-back walker
4x mindwrack demon
3x goblin dark-dweller
2x ob nixilis
2x Chandra, flamecaller
2x fiery impulse
1x dead weight
2x grasp of darkness
3x transgress the mind
2x read the bones
1x ruinous path
1x to the slaughter
2x kolaghans command
1x pulse of murasa
1x languish
4x smoldering marsh
4x hissing quagmire
1x forbidden ruin
3x cinder glade
2x evolving wilds
3x swamp
3x mountain
1x forest
Added Decktags. Check this thread for how to use them. Thanks! -- Lugger
Modern
GWBAbzan CompanyGWB
Pauper
UGU/G BeatsUG