i didnt want to go eldrazi route. but tought knot seer seem so good atm. and 15-0 is not something to laught at...
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
Okay, played in two gamedays at my LGS. I went top 8 in both events. First event, I got knocked out by bant company. Second, I lost against UW humans because of a misplay (I tapped out with anguished unmaking in hand) which ended up costing me the game. Overall it seems to do fairly well in the current meta. The only deck that it really has problems against is bant company.
I'm also considering adding 2 Oath of Gideon. Has anyone tested this card extensively enough to know whether it works or doesn't? I have a total of 8 planeswalker cards in the deck, so the loyalty bonus is going to come up often. The T3 Oath -> T4 Gideon dream is something that should happen often enough since I play 4 Gideon. The loyalty boost to Sorin is also huge because of how his -9 is almost always game winning (also allows his -X to hit bigger stuff without killing himself).
I tested this out a bit on Wednesday.
Getting the Gideon Emblem and keeping Gideon is pretty sweet, and it does happen fairly often. That said, I'm not sure the card is worth it. Drawing it late game feels pretty weak. I'm actually less impressed with having Sorin get closer to the -9. The problem is that the -9 is pretty risky the way things are now. Declaration in Stone and Languish are everywhere. Unless my opponent had an empty hand, I'm not even sure I'd want to use the ability if I could.
I'm also considering adding 2 Oath of Gideon. Has anyone tested this card extensively enough to know whether it works or doesn't? I have a total of 8 planeswalker cards in the deck, so the loyalty bonus is going to come up often. The T3 Oath -> T4 Gideon dream is something that should happen often enough since I play 4 Gideon. The loyalty boost to Sorin is also huge because of how his -9 is almost always game winning (also allows his -X to hit bigger stuff without killing himself).
I tested it extensively early on. I saw it as a way of triggering Delirium when I ran three while also providing early protection for the walkers I wanted to get to. Often it just wasn't impactful enough. The 1/1s never amounted to anything more than chump blockers. If there are a lot of Humans that the 1/1s might possibly trade with or control decks that the 1/1s can put pressure on then its stock goes up. I eventually cut it to 1 and decided that I would rather see a Ruinous Path at that stage. My ultimate conclusion was that it was never impactful enough and I ultimately just wanted more removal.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Anyway..I went 3-1-1 in the Swiss rounds and then made my way to the invitation in the Top 8. I started the day badly, loosing to GW tokens in round 1... I just played badly game 1..making two mistakes and then lost g2 to mana screw. I was just not in the 'zone'..oh well... After that things improved: I tied round 2 with an interesting RW googles deck, and then won Round 3 vs Jund, Round 4 vs GW tokens and Round 5 vs Googles ramp.
The top 8 included 1 GW tokens, 1 Ramp deck, 1 Grixis control, 2 BW control, 1 BW ally deck, and I think 1 CoCo deck and 1 BG aristocrats.
In top 8 I was always on the draw because of standings...I first played vs the BW ally deck with Always watching and March from the Tomb, but our deck is just very solid vs aggro strategies and hallowed moonlight/kalitas just made things impossible for him. Semis were vs Grixis control...it was a long match up but I came up on top after loosing game 1. Thought-Knot seer is a GOD here !! In the finals I had to play the same guy I lost to in round 1. I was a bit nervous but this time I was in rhythm. Game 1 he just out drew me and won. Games 2 and 3 though, Eldrazi Displacer and Avacyn dominated!
So I got my invite to the RPTQ and I am very happy with the deck. The top performer for me was the Displacer...he is just very good vs GW tokens or aggro strategies. I highly recommend him ! Kalitas and Avacyn were obviously very good also and I won most of my games via Avacyn + land hits after a Gideon emblem. From the SB, the thought-knot is just amazing, specially when paired with the Displacer to soft lock them in their draw step. Dark petition was also great providing a way to search for all the silver bullets post SB.
And.. BW control wins GP New York !! Yay..the deck is starting to put plenty of wins around.
My only concern are the 25 lands of the wining list.. I tried it and had to mulligan a lot.. I found 26 to be a good spot. OR, maybe I have to learn to shuffle =)
There was also another more midrange version in the Top 8
So I'm trying to get better at figuring out SB plans from netdecks and in general, and I've decided to take the list from NY through a few leagues on MTGO. I'm preparing a SB plan and am really struggling to find the MUs to bring in some of his choices.
MonoW Humans
+2 Dead Weight
+3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
-2 Hallowed Moonlight
-2 Transgress the Mind
-1 Read the Bones
The more I go through this, the more I'm not sure if this is a decent SB for the online metagame. The MB Moonlights are a pretty bold choice that obviously paid off for Mansfield, but I'm wondering if those should just be Declaration in Stones and move 1 more Moonlight into the SB in place of Bearer of Silence. When would you bring in Bearer or ThoughtKnot? I figured Dead Weight was for Humans, didn't think of another deck that we really want that in. I also tend to shave Read the Bones, Discard, and ObNix before anything else, is this poor practice?
Most importantly, a lot of this stuff, what goes and what comes out, is different on the play or draw. On the play against Bant, TKS is great because he can steal CoCo before they cast it, but on the draw they might have already jammed their most important spell. Him attacking on the play is better than him blocking on the draw too. I would be more likely to trim some number of Gideons on the draw, because he can't pull you back into games from behind. Stuff like that.
You want Kalitas in against GB. Cut Ob and the Moonlights. Dead Weight is good. You can afford cutting a single Anguish, which you're holding back for Ormendahl.
Keep the Secure in against Bant. Cut Anguished Unmaking; it's too big of an effect when exiling isn't exactly necessary.
Declaration just isn't great in a deck that wants to outgrind its opponents.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
I figured Dead Weight was for Humans, didn't think of another deck that we really want that in.
In my experience, this card is like having Shock available in black mana. You're right, it is best against mono-white humans (and it would be equally good if red aggro was a thing right now). I've also used it after attacking with small creatures into bigger creatures. For example, I once attacked with Shambling Vent into Avacyn, and finished up with Dead Weight. My meta is pretty control-heavy so I've moved mine to the sideboard.
Most importantly, a lot of this stuff, what goes and what comes out, is different on the play or draw. On the play against Bant, TKS is great because he can steal CoCo before they cast it, but on the draw they might have already jammed their most important spell. Him attacking on the play is better than him blocking on the draw too. I would be more likely to trim some number of Gideons on the draw, because he can't pull you back into games from behind. Stuff like that.
You want Kalitas in against GB. Cut Ob and the Moonlights. Dead Weight is good. You can afford cutting a single Anguish, which you're holding back for Ormendahl.
Keep the Secure in against Bant. Cut Anguished Unmaking; it's too big of an effect when exiling isn't exactly necessary.
Declaration just isn't great in a deck that wants to outgrind its opponents.
This is fascinating to me, I really need to delve a little deeper into the SB choices for this deck. Do you know of any resources out there that go MU by MU and explain the reasoning? Not just an in/out list? Just finished the League, went 1-4. Worst league I have played since they came out with them. I agree with tchntm43 on the previous page, 25 lands led to a lot of unkeepable hands. Played Humans (0-2), G(b) Ramp (0-2), MonoB Eldrazi (0-2), RG Ramp (2-0), UR Eldrazi (1-2).
Hi all, just wanna share my version on BW control. It's more midrangey in the sense that it has quite a number of creatures. But it still has a very strong interaction package.
How do you guys feel about Seth Manfield's decision to play Hallowed Moonlight in the main? Part of me has always wanted to do this. Even if you have no functional use for the card, it cycles fairly cheaply and replaces itself with something likely more useful. I used a similar logic a few years ago playing maindeck Quicken in Esper Control. I'm thinking, if I were to cut a couple cards from the deck for these, it would make the most sense to turn a couple 4x into 3x rather than remove completely a 2x (logic being that you're going to dig deeper and run into the 4x cards more often now, so going to 3x is more like going 3.5x since you're going to draw more cards in a game).
How do you guys feel about Seth Manfield's decision to play Hallowed Moonlight in the main? Part of me has always wanted to do this. Even if you have no functional use for the card, it cycles fairly cheaply and replaces itself with something likely more useful. I used a similar logic a few years ago playing maindeck Quicken in Esper Control. I'm thinking, if I were to cut a couple cards from the deck for these, it would make the most sense to turn a couple 4x into 3x rather than remove completely a 2x (logic being that you're going to dig deeper and run into the 4x cards more often now, so going to 3x is more like going 3.5x since you're going to draw more cards in a game).
If your meta has a <fkload> of coco based decks, by all means my friend.
I think MD Moonlight is definitely a metagame choice and it paid off for him big time! If, as seems to be the case, 4 color CoCo will be a big chunk of the metagame it may be worth playing 2 MD. IT also does nto hurt that is a good tool vs secure the wastes in the mirror and GW tokens matchups.
Regardless, I think that Languish is still our main tool vs all CoCo decks, and the main reason that BW pure control is better positioned than the more eldrazi versions with stranglers and TKS in MD. Also, Kalitas MD is important right now..the 4C CoCo decks run only reflector mages in MD as a way of 'dealing' with him.
What do you guys think of Linvala? I have been running one MD (my list is somewhere in the last few pages and has been working great) but checking my notes I realized I have played her once over the last couple of weeks and was not really necessary at that point. Should I just go -1 Linvala + 1 PW or +1 Avacyn (running 2 already in MD)?
Yeah, so Hallowed Moonlight worked out amazing last night. While it is great for Collected Company and Secure the Wastes, sometimes it even comes up being critical to stop a Scion token from Catacomb Sifter or a Cleric token from Westvale Abbey. It might not seem like much, but if that token is creature #5 for Westvale Abbey, you want to stop it. Also, there are many circumstances where an opponent commits creatures to attacking based on the belief that he's going to end his turn with a Scion token or something like that, and has actually risked quite a lot on that assumption. It basically becomes a very expensive token-killer in that case, but it's still a cantrip.
Results last night were good: 2-1 vs 4C Coco-Rites, 2-1 vs W/u Humans, 1-2 vs 4C Coco-Rites, and then 2-1 vs Mono-blue Eldrazi Aggro.
So far it's been really good, I decided to build right before B/W Control took down the last GP (glad I did, bought the remaining cards that Friday). With so many ways to build this arch type, I have 2 questions:
1) Is Avacyn better than the 4th Gideon, and Read the Bones? I've really like having a flash threat that pressures and defends.
2) -1 Plains for an Extra Abbey? Sometimes I really feel like I want to flip the Abbey and beat face asap.
On Linvala: VS CoCo and decks that seek to apply pressure I've found her great out of the SB.
I think that 3 Westvale abbey is good..but going to 4 colorless is a bit risky. Also, why so many 2 CC removal in the 75? I think 8 is a good number, and that opens slots in the SB.
I won my PPTQ with this list last weekend. The displacers are EXCELLENT if you expect a lot of GW tokens and combine quite well with Thought-knot seer in the SB vs ramp.
I got back into magic right after Nyx released.
My first standard deck was Abzan during KTK. I wanted it to be aggro, but I also wanted to run Coursers, Sylvan Caryatids, etc. All while trying to beat face woth Fleecemane Lion and Anafenza.
The deck didn't work, and for a while I just assumed that I was bad at playing it (which I'm sure was at least partially correct.)
But, after a while I decided that it was a deck with an identity crisis, and I had to commit to aggro or midrange.
The deck then ran much more smoothly. While it bounced from aggro to midrange between sets, it was a commited archetype, not lost somewhere in between.
The first month of playing Orzhov control felt exactly the same as the original Abzan Identity Crisis deck. I built the deck becausr I wanted to Play Sorin and Avacyn. Kalitas has amazing synergy with Avacyn, so naturally I wanted to run those as well.
But Avacyn isn't really suited for a control finisher. She dies to almost everything. Her etb trigger needs more creatures to maximize value.
Kalitas dies to most of the same, Roast instead of Rending Volley. But opponents holding removal until you play a threat, makes it too easy to answer.
Seth Manfield's article on his GP NY list describes the problem to a tee.
1. They all die to Languish, which is awkward.
2. They all die to most removal, and there's a ton of spot removal. Also dropping them in as a blocker in a world full of reflector mage is awkward
Theres much less dedicated PW hate.
I've been testing with Seth's GP NY list, traded a 4th RTB for 26th land. But other than that 100% copied the main.
The deck runs so much better. I dont have Avacyn dying in response to an ETB trigger. Opponents are usually able to kill the first Gideon and then die to the 2nd PW.
I am using the same list. My main deck change was -1 obnix +1 dark petition.
Side -1 hallowed moonlight -1 anguished unmaking, +2 declaration in stone.
i didnt want to go eldrazi route. but tought knot seer seem so good atm. and 15-0 is not something to laught at...
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
Okay, played in two gamedays at my LGS. I went top 8 in both events. First event, I got knocked out by bant company. Second, I lost against UW humans because of a misplay (I tapped out with anguished unmaking in hand) which ended up costing me the game. Overall it seems to do fairly well in the current meta. The only deck that it really has problems against is bant company.
I tested this out a bit on Wednesday.
Getting the Gideon Emblem and keeping Gideon is pretty sweet, and it does happen fairly often. That said, I'm not sure the card is worth it. Drawing it late game feels pretty weak. I'm actually less impressed with having Sorin get closer to the -9. The problem is that the -9 is pretty risky the way things are now. Declaration in Stone and Languish are everywhere. Unless my opponent had an empty hand, I'm not even sure I'd want to use the ability if I could.
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Shambling Vent
5 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Westvale Abbey/Ormendahl, Profane Prince
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Llanowar Wastes
// Creatures
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Archangel Avacyn/Avacyn, the Purifier
2 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Linvala, the Preserver
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Secure the Wastes
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Ruinous Path
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Ultimate Price
2 Read the Bones
3 Languish
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Ruinous Path
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Pick the Brain
1 Flaying Tendrils
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Dark Petition
2 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Virulent Plague
Anyway..I went 3-1-1 in the Swiss rounds and then made my way to the invitation in the Top 8. I started the day badly, loosing to GW tokens in round 1... I just played badly game 1..making two mistakes and then lost g2 to mana screw. I was just not in the 'zone'..oh well... After that things improved: I tied round 2 with an interesting RW googles deck, and then won Round 3 vs Jund, Round 4 vs GW tokens and Round 5 vs Googles ramp.
The top 8 included 1 GW tokens, 1 Ramp deck, 1 Grixis control, 2 BW control, 1 BW ally deck, and I think 1 CoCo deck and 1 BG aristocrats.
In top 8 I was always on the draw because of standings...I first played vs the BW ally deck with Always watching and March from the Tomb, but our deck is just very solid vs aggro strategies and hallowed moonlight/kalitas just made things impossible for him. Semis were vs Grixis control...it was a long match up but I came up on top after loosing game 1. Thought-Knot seer is a GOD here !! In the finals I had to play the same guy I lost to in round 1. I was a bit nervous but this time I was in rhythm. Game 1 he just out drew me and won. Games 2 and 3 though, Eldrazi Displacer and Avacyn dominated!
So I got my invite to the RPTQ and I am very happy with the deck. The top performer for me was the Displacer...he is just very good vs GW tokens or aggro strategies. I highly recommend him ! Kalitas and Avacyn were obviously very good also and I won most of my games via Avacyn + land hits after a Gideon emblem. From the SB, the thought-knot is just amazing, specially when paired with the Displacer to soft lock them in their draw step. Dark petition was also great providing a way to search for all the silver bullets post SB.
All in all a great day of magic! =)
My only concern are the 25 lands of the wining list.. I tried it and had to mulligan a lot.. I found 26 to be a good spot. OR, maybe I have to learn to shuffle =)
There was also another more midrange version in the Top 8
Cheers
4x Forsaken Sanctuary
5x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
7x Swamp
2x Westvale Abbey
4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4x Languish
4x Read the Bones
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Anguished Unmaking
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Secure the Wastes
2x Silkwrap
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Dead Weight
4x Duress
2x Flaying Tendrils
2x Hallowed Moonlight
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Transgress the Mind
For reference, here is the list.
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Ruinous Path
2 Ultimate Price
4 Languish
1 Planar Outburst
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Hallowed Moonlight
4 Read the Bones
3 Secure the Wastes
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
3 Plains
6 Swamp
4 Shambling Vent
3 Westvale Abbey
1 Bearer of Silence
2 Dead Weight
3 Duress
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Hallowed Moonlight
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Ultimate Price
This is where I'm at so far on the top few decks:
GW Tokens
+3 Kalitas. Traitor of Ghet
+1 Hallowed Moonlight
+1 Eldrazi Displacer
-3 Ob Nixilis Reignited
-1 Read the Bones
-1 Ultimate Price?
GB Aristocrats
+1 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Hallowed Moonlight
(Dead Weight for Husks?)
-1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
-1 Read the Bones
Bant Company
+1 Ultimate Price
+1 Hallowed Moonlight
+1 Thought-Knot Seet
+3 Kalitas, ToG?
-3 Secure the Wastes
-3 ?
MonoW Humans
+2 Dead Weight
+3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
-2 Hallowed Moonlight
-2 Transgress the Mind
-1 Read the Bones
The more I go through this, the more I'm not sure if this is a decent SB for the online metagame. The MB Moonlights are a pretty bold choice that obviously paid off for Mansfield, but I'm wondering if those should just be Declaration in Stones and move 1 more Moonlight into the SB in place of Bearer of Silence. When would you bring in Bearer or ThoughtKnot? I figured Dead Weight was for Humans, didn't think of another deck that we really want that in. I also tend to shave Read the Bones, Discard, and ObNix before anything else, is this poor practice?
You want Kalitas in against GB. Cut Ob and the Moonlights. Dead Weight is good. You can afford cutting a single Anguish, which you're holding back for Ormendahl.
Keep the Secure in against Bant. Cut Anguished Unmaking; it's too big of an effect when exiling isn't exactly necessary.
Declaration just isn't great in a deck that wants to outgrind its opponents.
In my experience, this card is like having Shock available in black mana. You're right, it is best against mono-white humans (and it would be equally good if red aggro was a thing right now). I've also used it after attacking with small creatures into bigger creatures. For example, I once attacked with Shambling Vent into Avacyn, and finished up with Dead Weight. My meta is pretty control-heavy so I've moved mine to the sideboard.
This is fascinating to me, I really need to delve a little deeper into the SB choices for this deck. Do you know of any resources out there that go MU by MU and explain the reasoning? Not just an in/out list? Just finished the League, went 1-4. Worst league I have played since they came out with them. I agree with tchntm43 on the previous page, 25 lands led to a lot of unkeepable hands. Played Humans (0-2), G(b) Ramp (0-2), MonoB Eldrazi (0-2), RG Ramp (2-0), UR Eldrazi (1-2).
4 forsaken sanctuary
4 shambling vent
2 sea gate wreckage
2 blighted fen
2 foundry of the consuls
2 ruins of oran-rief
1 blighted steppe
1 corrupted crossroad
1 mirrorpool
1 plains
1 swamp
4 wasteland strangler
3 bearer of silence
4 thought-knot seer
3 reality smasher
2 archangel avacyn
2 Gideon ally of zendikar
1 ob nixilis reignited
3 transgress the mind
2 silkwrap
2 ultimate price
2 warping wail
2 declaration in stone
2 anguished unmaking
3 stasis snare
Sideboard is pretty much meta dependent, but it will include at least some number of languish and sorins
If your meta has a <fkload> of coco based decks, by all means my friend.
Please don't evade the sensor. Thanks! -- Lugger
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
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twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Regardless, I think that Languish is still our main tool vs all CoCo decks, and the main reason that BW pure control is better positioned than the more eldrazi versions with stranglers and TKS in MD. Also, Kalitas MD is important right now..the 4C CoCo decks run only reflector mages in MD as a way of 'dealing' with him.
What do you guys think of Linvala? I have been running one MD (my list is somewhere in the last few pages and has been working great) but checking my notes I realized I have played her once over the last couple of weeks and was not really necessary at that point. Should I just go -1 Linvala + 1 PW or +1 Avacyn (running 2 already in MD)?
Cheers
Results last night were good: 2-1 vs 4C Coco-Rites, 2-1 vs W/u Humans, 1-2 vs 4C Coco-Rites, and then 2-1 vs Mono-blue Eldrazi Aggro.
2 Archangel Avacyn
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells: (23)
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Languish
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Ultimate Price
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Secure the Wastes
3 Read the Bones
2 Ruinous Path
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land (26)
7 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Blighted Fen
2 Linvala, the Preserver
2 Ultimate Price
2 Infinite Obliteration
2 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Read the Bones
1 Transgress the Mind
3 Duress
2 Declaration in Stone
So far it's been really good, I decided to build right before B/W Control took down the last GP (glad I did, bought the remaining cards that Friday). With so many ways to build this arch type, I have 2 questions:
1) Is Avacyn better than the 4th Gideon, and Read the Bones? I've really like having a flash threat that pressures and defends.
2) -1 Plains for an Extra Abbey? Sometimes I really feel like I want to flip the Abbey and beat face asap.
On Linvala: VS CoCo and decks that seek to apply pressure I've found her great out of the SB.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I would go:
-1 Read the Bones + 1 Kalitas
-1 Ultimate price + 1 Declaration in stone.
I think that 3 Westvale abbey is good..but going to 4 colorless is a bit risky. Also, why so many 2 CC removal in the 75? I think 8 is a good number, and that opens slots in the SB.
I won my PPTQ with this list last weekend. The displacers are EXCELLENT if you expect a lot of GW tokens and combine quite well with Thought-knot seer in the SB vs ramp.
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Shambling Vent
5 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Westvale Abbey/Ormendahl, Profane Prince
4 Forsaken Sanctuary
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Llanowar Wastes
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Archangel Avacyn/Avacyn, the Purifier
2 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Linvala the Preserver
// PWs
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Secure the Wastes
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Ruinous Path
1 Ultimate Price
2 Read the Bones
3 Languish
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Transgress the Mind
Good luck!
My first standard deck was Abzan during KTK. I wanted it to be aggro, but I also wanted to run Coursers, Sylvan Caryatids, etc. All while trying to beat face woth Fleecemane Lion and Anafenza.
The deck didn't work, and for a while I just assumed that I was bad at playing it (which I'm sure was at least partially correct.)
But, after a while I decided that it was a deck with an identity crisis, and I had to commit to aggro or midrange.
The deck then ran much more smoothly. While it bounced from aggro to midrange between sets, it was a commited archetype, not lost somewhere in between.
The first month of playing Orzhov control felt exactly the same as the original Abzan Identity Crisis deck. I built the deck becausr I wanted to Play Sorin and Avacyn. Kalitas has amazing synergy with Avacyn, so naturally I wanted to run those as well.
But Avacyn isn't really suited for a control finisher. She dies to almost everything. Her etb trigger needs more creatures to maximize value.
Kalitas dies to most of the same, Roast instead of Rending Volley. But opponents holding removal until you play a threat, makes it too easy to answer.
Seth Manfield's article on his GP NY list describes the problem to a tee.
1. They all die to Languish, which is awkward.
2. They all die to most removal, and there's a ton of spot removal. Also dropping them in as a blocker in a world full of reflector mage is awkward
Theres much less dedicated PW hate.
I've been testing with Seth's GP NY list, traded a 4th RTB for 26th land. But other than that 100% copied the main.
The deck runs so much better. I dont have Avacyn dying in response to an ETB trigger. Opponents are usually able to kill the first Gideon and then die to the 2nd PW.
Side -1 hallowed moonlight -1 anguished unmaking, +2 declaration in stone.
I won 17 person fnm.