So here is a Wr Humans list that i have been play testing, it is extremely fast and usually wins by turn 5 or 6 vs the eldrazi ramp and emerge decks the only time i really have a bad match-up is vs the BG delirium decks when they have back to back languish to wipe the board. i would like some input for possible tweeks and suggestions.
**snip decklist**
This is pedantic, but a deck that plays only 4 1-drops and has 3 and even 4 CMC spells is not going to be "extremely fast". The version that plays mainly 1-drops with a few 2-drops is extremely fast. It has turn 4 kill possibilities.
On a more practical note, since you're playing red already, you could try Reckless Bushwhacker, but since you've cut almost all the 1-drops I'm not sure how good that will be.
ended up finishing 2nd and 3rd at game days respectively this weekend (3 and 1 both days). I'll give a report
Saturday (2nd place out of 11, lost to the winner)
Round one I 2-0 a Rakdos Control easily. Game 1 I overextend because he was struggling on mana, so I figured I could win the game before languish could hit, which I won easily. Game 2 I got more conservative, since he discarded a languish to Nahiri's wrath. That meant one of 2 things to me, either he had a second in hand and didn't mind discarding the first, or he discarded it because he didn't think he'd hit it. It turned out to be the second but getting blown out would have sucked so I played it safe.
1-0
Round 2 I 2-1 the mirror. This guy I know a lot of the times he just borrows decks off his friends so he could win extra packs for their collections. So I knew he probably wouldn't be as confident with the deck as I was. I outplayed him game 1. He drew better game 2, as he hit like 2 or 3 always watching. Game 3 was pretty even until I was able to hit a knight of the white orchid to get a land, then dec in stone his 2 thraben inspectors, then kill his Gideon Battle forged
2-0.
Round 3 I lose to Bant Coco, who won the event 0-2. Game 1 I mull to 5, game 2 he got the nut draw. Not much else to say.
2-1
Round 4 I 2-0 GB delirium pretty easily. Game 1 I got the nut draw, while he didn't get much going at all. Game 2 he didn't draw any instant speed removal to deal with double bushwhacker
3-1 on the day, good enough for second place and 3 packs, just no mat
Game day number 2, 3rd place at 3-1. There were like 4 people at 3-1, which I've never seen before. My tie breakers weren't great, which dropped me to 3rd out of 11 people
Round 1 I 2-0 one of the player's brothers, who was new and playing some RDW variant with thermoaclhemist. Game 1 he does well, game 2 I blew him out
Round 2 I 2-1 Bant Coco. Game one he got a slow start against my nut draw. Game 2 he gets the nut draw. Game 3 was close but he whiffed on a coco and I was able to come back from a tragic arrogance.
2-0
Round 3 I lose 0-2 to Temerge. Game 1 I mull to 5 but still had a strong start, just couldn't finish it. Game 2 he draws really good and I can't finish him
2-1. At this point, I had a feeling I would need to get lucky. Unfortunately, my luck wouyldn't do it.
Round 4 I 2-0 Bant Coco. Game 1 was ridiculous. He saw like no cocos, but saw all 4 of his dromoka's commands, with the ability to flash 2 back with Jace. So he cast it 6 times, making one reflector mage a 6/7 and the other a 3/4. At this point I had already used 3 dec in stones, so I needed a 4th to get me out. Eventually after just staring at each other for a bit, I drew into it and won. I think this tilted him a bit for the rest of the match. I got a decent but not great hand, started strong and he just scooped.
At this point, I became the 3rd 3-1 at the event, with the possibility of a 4th, depending on who wins one of the last matches going (which would also determine who won the mat). I believe we determined I would have been unable to win because of my tie breakers being terrible due to my first round opponent bringing them down. Got third p0lace and won packs though. Managed to pick up 2 promos for my 2 top 8s and traded into 2 more to finish my set, my try GW humans sometime
one question though, is it normal to have 4 3-1s in an 11 player event or is that an extreme abnormality?
Haven't played Humans for some time, but decided to work on it to play after the rotation. Knight of the White Orchard, Dragon Hunter, Kytheon, all the Origins and Dragons goodness disappears, so I have started with:
Haven't played Humans for some time, but decided to work on it to play after the rotation. Knight of the White Orchard, Dragon Hunter, Kytheon, all the Origins and Dragons goodness disappears, so I have started with:
Runs fairly consistent - for me anyways. I don't think splashing for that GW Herron's Grace lifelink thing is really worth it..
If you're just splashing for Heron's Grace Champion then no, Green isn't worth it. But Green also has Dromoka's Command, Lambholt Pacifist, Duskwatch Recruiter, Tireless Tracker, and Sigarda, Heron's Grace as possible cards to make the deck. Dromoka's Command is just awesome. Lambholt is a big blocker that is easy to make an attacker as well. Duskwatch Recruiter allows us to pull more threats in late game. Tireless Tracker grows with every land. Sigarda is a potential top of curve finisher giving most of our creatures hexproof.
Note* I am not saying any or all of these cards belong in a build, but they are all options.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Currently Playing: WGW/G HumansGW WUW/U SpiritsUW WGG/W TokensGW URU/R ProwessRU
He had written an article a little while back about Humans going back to true mono-white, and that's exactly what he did. One of the reasons was Thalia causing the mainboard battlefield forges to come into play tapped more than he liked.
I had heard tell of Sticher's Graft and was in the process of trying it out myself when I saw him in the event last weekend. Having Kytheon and Always Watching gives a lot of ways to negate the downside of Graft, which is then very powerful.
I've just started playing at my local store a few months ago. I play a Tom Ross style W/r Weenie deck with moderate success. My local meta is almost exclusively control and ramp which, bar the sweepers, is pretty good for me. I have two issues I want to raise:
1: Should I play my anti control tech main deck (Spires, Gideon, Bushwhacker)? Considering the meta.
2: One particular deck is running a lot of burn (U/R Zombies) and I just can't keep up. I lose hard to it every time. How do I play around this?
Lastly, what do you all think of cards like Long Road Home and Eerie Interlude in this deck?
I think you should definitely adjust the deck for your meta. If it is most of your games are going to be against control, it makes sense to tune it for control from the start and then board out for the other matchups.
For U/R zombies, it's hard to say without knowing the decklists. Against burn you can use Selfless Spirit, Repel the Abominable, or even Archangel Avacyn to protect your creatures. Most recently I've seen Stichers Graft used to get humans out of burn range while using Always Watching or Gideon (Kytheon Gideon) to negate the drawback of not untapping. Against Zombies flying is usually good, so Gryffs Boon, Avacyn, Selfless Spirit, or even going back to the decks roots and having a couple Archangel of Tithes might help.
I've tried using Selfless Spirit in the two drop slot instead of Militia Captain, mainly because I had this weird thing where I found four cards missing from my deck right before gameday, and it worked ok. That and Avacyn sideboard would do double duty as burn protection and added flyers. (I but Avacyn in the Gideon slot.)
Eerie Interlude I've used sideboard sometimes. It dodges some burn and lets you redistribute tokens which can often help survive Languish or other things. Long road home is fine if you just have one creature you want to protect, but it's not a great use of a card since it only saves one creature. I think that either Eerie Interlude or Collected Effort just do so much more of what you want to do.
People who are playing G/W what cards are you losing after rotation and what are you going to replace them with?
From my end the first thing I'm losing is Dromoka’s Command. At the moment it seems the logical card to replace it with is Collective Effort unless you guys have an alternative options?
Then it’s a matter of 1 drops. Right now I run 2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros, 4 of each Dragon Hunter and Honored Hierarch and lastly 2 Thraben Inspector. Now I’m obviously losing all of them other than the Inspector. So I will bump him up to a full playset to replace Kytheon. Then I’ll run Expedition Envoy as a weaker Dragon Hunter but I have no idea what to put in as my last 1 drop. Hopefully we’ll get something from Kaladesh that is playable but if we don’t what would you add?
I'm guessing that you mean in green, but if in white . . . I think that town gossipmonger is stupid good.
So with WR Humans working now, and GW looking good post rotation has anyone given any thought towards Naya humans? Voltaic Brawler looks too good to not try to fit in something with Thalia's Lieutenant.
Looking to make a post rotation RW build that really takes advantage of the fact that Languish is gone and the only real sweepers do damage. Here's what I have so far:
So a few thoughts. Start Your Engines seems beastly, especially when on the play. You can cast at least 2 creatures before turn 3 then cast Thalia turn 3 so whatever creature they play gets tapped down and swing turn 4 with Start Your Engines for tons. Turn 3 Hanweir Garrison turn 4 Start Your Engines is also pretty solid. I don't think the Hanweir Battlements is necessary to run with it. I only have one 2 drop in Thalia's LT so I wonder how the curve will really look, especially running as many 3 drops as I am. The sideboard is dedicated to dodging damage dealing sweepers and smashing harder against slow decks. Still have 5 slots there, obviously considering Gideon, but not sold. I haven't played Humans before this, so I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone. Thanks!
Please keep all discussion of Kaladesh cards in SNCD until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
Looking to make a post rotation RW build that really takes advantage of the fact that Languish is gone and the only real sweepers do damage. Here's what I have so far:
So a few thoughts. Start Your Engines seems beastly, especially when on the play. You can cast at least 2 creatures before turn 3 then cast Thalia turn 3 so whatever creature they play gets tapped down and swing turn 4 with Start Your Engines for tons. Turn 3 Hanweir Garrison turn 4 Start Your Engines is also pretty solid. I don't think the Hanweir Battlements is necessary to run with it. I only have one 2 drop in Thalia's LT so I wonder how the curve will really look, especially running as many 3 drops as I am. The sideboard is dedicated to dodging damage dealing sweepers and smashing harder against slow decks. Still have 5 slots there, obviously considering Gideon, but not sold. I haven't played Humans before this, so I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone. Thanks!
What damage dealing sweepers? White still has Planar Outburst and Decent upon the Sinful which will come out more once Languish rotates unless another good black sweeper drops
Note: Before the mods tell you new cards need to be kept in new card discussion until the whole set is revealed
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Currently Playing:
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
What damage dealing sweepers? White still has Planar Outburst and Decent upon the Sinful which will come out more once Languish rotates unless another good black sweeper drops
Note: Before the mods tell you new cards need to be kept in new card discussion until the whole set is revealed
Ah, sorry about that, they can delete it if they want.
Radiant Flames and Kozilek's return were the sweepers that I was referring to. Given the speed that Humans usually wins at, seems like planar outburst and decent would be a tad too slow.
13 artifact to activate the apprentice (in form of fabbricate servos and inspector clue's) some reach with copter, key to the city and chandra,
against mass removal we've got 6 planes walker, manland, copter.
we are light on removal due to evasion... let me know what do you think
I like a lot about this deck. Counting the servos from your 5 drop as buffing your 1 drop seems questionable, but 10 sources of artifacts might be good enough. 6 4 drops and 3 5 drops in a 22 land deck seems beyond optimistic to me. This looks like a 25 land mana curve. If you cut the angels and add a Mountain and a Plains, you get to 16 R sources and 16 W sources, which gives you a 90% chance of being able to cast your planeswalkers on time. I do wonder whether durdling around with Key to the City is really better than Always Watching, but it seems like fun.
Good point. I had not factored in the looting in evaluating the mana curve. I withdraw my concern and go back to cheering from the sidelines. The Angels seem fragile, but they give you the kaboom I think you need.
I keep wanting to find ways to benefit from the discard, and not finding anything better than Fiery Temper. I do like the way Key allows safe swings with Garrison.
The servos can't swing until T6 at best. I don't know that you go wide enough for Start Your Engines to be good, but it also seems powerful.
This is pedantic, but a deck that plays only 4 1-drops and has 3 and even 4 CMC spells is not going to be "extremely fast". The version that plays mainly 1-drops with a few 2-drops is extremely fast. It has turn 4 kill possibilities.
On a more practical note, since you're playing red already, you could try Reckless Bushwhacker, but since you've cut almost all the 1-drops I'm not sure how good that will be.
Saturday (2nd place out of 11, lost to the winner)
Round one I 2-0 a Rakdos Control easily. Game 1 I overextend because he was struggling on mana, so I figured I could win the game before languish could hit, which I won easily. Game 2 I got more conservative, since he discarded a languish to Nahiri's wrath. That meant one of 2 things to me, either he had a second in hand and didn't mind discarding the first, or he discarded it because he didn't think he'd hit it. It turned out to be the second but getting blown out would have sucked so I played it safe.
1-0
Round 2 I 2-1 the mirror. This guy I know a lot of the times he just borrows decks off his friends so he could win extra packs for their collections. So I knew he probably wouldn't be as confident with the deck as I was. I outplayed him game 1. He drew better game 2, as he hit like 2 or 3 always watching. Game 3 was pretty even until I was able to hit a knight of the white orchid to get a land, then dec in stone his 2 thraben inspectors, then kill his Gideon Battle forged
2-0.
Round 3 I lose to Bant Coco, who won the event 0-2. Game 1 I mull to 5, game 2 he got the nut draw. Not much else to say.
2-1
Round 4 I 2-0 GB delirium pretty easily. Game 1 I got the nut draw, while he didn't get much going at all. Game 2 he didn't draw any instant speed removal to deal with double bushwhacker
3-1 on the day, good enough for second place and 3 packs, just no mat
Game day number 2, 3rd place at 3-1. There were like 4 people at 3-1, which I've never seen before. My tie breakers weren't great, which dropped me to 3rd out of 11 people
Round 1 I 2-0 one of the player's brothers, who was new and playing some RDW variant with thermoaclhemist. Game 1 he does well, game 2 I blew him out
Round 2 I 2-1 Bant Coco. Game one he got a slow start against my nut draw. Game 2 he gets the nut draw. Game 3 was close but he whiffed on a coco and I was able to come back from a tragic arrogance.
2-0
Round 3 I lose 0-2 to Temerge. Game 1 I mull to 5 but still had a strong start, just couldn't finish it. Game 2 he draws really good and I can't finish him
2-1. At this point, I had a feeling I would need to get lucky. Unfortunately, my luck wouyldn't do it.
Round 4 I 2-0 Bant Coco. Game 1 was ridiculous. He saw like no cocos, but saw all 4 of his dromoka's commands, with the ability to flash 2 back with Jace. So he cast it 6 times, making one reflector mage a 6/7 and the other a 3/4. At this point I had already used 3 dec in stones, so I needed a 4th to get me out. Eventually after just staring at each other for a bit, I drew into it and won. I think this tilted him a bit for the rest of the match. I got a decent but not great hand, started strong and he just scooped.
At this point, I became the 3rd 3-1 at the event, with the possibility of a 4th, depending on who wins one of the last matches going (which would also determine who won the mat). I believe we determined I would have been unable to win because of my tie breakers being terrible due to my first round opponent bringing them down. Got third p0lace and won packs though. Managed to pick up 2 promos for my 2 top 8s and traded into 2 more to finish my set, my try GW humans sometime
one question though, is it normal to have 4 3-1s in an 11 player event or is that an extreme abnormality?
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Town Gossipmonger
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Dragon Hunter
4 Reflector Mage
3 Archangel Avacyn
2 Ojutai's Command
4 Always Watching
2 Gryff's Boon
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
13 Plains
2 Stasis Snare
2 Silkwrap
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
3 Negate
2 Dispell
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Hallowed Moonlight
I won games day with this list. The blue splash is really good.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Town Gossipmonger
4 Lone Rider
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Lantern Scout
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Always Watching
3 Gryff's Boon
1 Stasis Snare
Runs fairly consistent - for me anyways. I don't think splashing for that GW Herron's Grace lifelink thing is really worth it..
If you're just splashing for Heron's Grace Champion then no, Green isn't worth it. But Green also has Dromoka's Command, Lambholt Pacifist, Duskwatch Recruiter, Tireless Tracker, and Sigarda, Heron's Grace as possible cards to make the deck. Dromoka's Command is just awesome. Lambholt is a big blocker that is easy to make an attacker as well. Duskwatch Recruiter allows us to pull more threats in late game. Tireless Tracker grows with every land. Sigarda is a potential top of curve finisher giving most of our creatures hexproof.
Note* I am not saying any or all of these cards belong in a build, but they are all options.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
I probably would have gone that route but Trackers are in my GB Delirium. do not own Sigarda/Commands
Trackers are usually too midrange for this deck. They want to see 6+ lands a game. The rest of your deck doesnt.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
Here it is.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=106565
He had written an article a little while back about Humans going back to true mono-white, and that's exactly what he did. One of the reasons was Thalia causing the mainboard battlefield forges to come into play tapped more than he liked.
I had heard tell of Sticher's Graft and was in the process of trying it out myself when I saw him in the event last weekend. Having Kytheon and Always Watching gives a lot of ways to negate the downside of Graft, which is then very powerful.
Nevermind. He's talking opponents Thalia's.
Currently Playing:
WGW/G HumansGW
WUW/U SpiritsUW
WGG/W TokensGW
URU/R ProwessRU
I think you should definitely adjust the deck for your meta. If it is most of your games are going to be against control, it makes sense to tune it for control from the start and then board out for the other matchups.
For U/R zombies, it's hard to say without knowing the decklists. Against burn you can use Selfless Spirit, Repel the Abominable, or even Archangel Avacyn to protect your creatures. Most recently I've seen Stichers Graft used to get humans out of burn range while using Always Watching or Gideon (Kytheon Gideon) to negate the drawback of not untapping. Against Zombies flying is usually good, so Gryffs Boon, Avacyn, Selfless Spirit, or even going back to the decks roots and having a couple Archangel of Tithes might help.
I've tried using Selfless Spirit in the two drop slot instead of Militia Captain, mainly because I had this weird thing where I found four cards missing from my deck right before gameday, and it worked ok. That and Avacyn sideboard would do double duty as burn protection and added flyers. (I but Avacyn in the Gideon slot.)
Eerie Interlude I've used sideboard sometimes. It dodges some burn and lets you redistribute tokens which can often help survive Languish or other things. Long road home is fine if you just have one creature you want to protect, but it's not a great use of a card since it only saves one creature. I think that either Eerie Interlude or Collected Effort just do so much more of what you want to do.
I'm guessing that you mean in green, but if in white . . . I think that town gossipmonger is stupid good.
Looking to make a post rotation RW build that really takes advantage of the fact that Languish is gone and the only real sweepers do damage. Here's what I have so far:
4x Village Messenger
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Thraben Inspector
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Hanweir Garrison
4x Always Watching
3x Start Your Engines
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Gryff's Boon
2x Collective Effort
Lands:
4x Inspiring Village
6x Mountains
11x Plains
3x Repel the Abominable
2x Eerie Interlude
2x Lantern Scout
1x Reckless Bushwacker
2x Stitcher's Graft
1x Declaration in Stone
So a few thoughts. Start Your Engines seems beastly, especially when on the play. You can cast at least 2 creatures before turn 3 then cast Thalia turn 3 so whatever creature they play gets tapped down and swing turn 4 with Start Your Engines for tons. Turn 3 Hanweir Garrison turn 4 Start Your Engines is also pretty solid. I don't think the Hanweir Battlements is necessary to run with it. I only have one 2 drop in Thalia's LT so I wonder how the curve will really look, especially running as many 3 drops as I am. The sideboard is dedicated to dodging damage dealing sweepers and smashing harder against slow decks. Still have 5 slots there, obviously considering Gideon, but not sold. I haven't played Humans before this, so I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone. Thanks!
Please keep all discussion of Kaladesh cards in SNCD until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
What damage dealing sweepers? White still has Planar Outburst and Decent upon the Sinful which will come out more once Languish rotates unless another good black sweeper drops
Note: Before the mods tell you new cards need to be kept in new card discussion until the whole set is revealed
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
Ah, sorry about that, they can delete it if they want.
Radiant Flames and Kozilek's return were the sweepers that I was referring to. Given the speed that Humans usually wins at, seems like planar outburst and decent would be a tad too slow.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I keep wanting to find ways to benefit from the discard, and not finding anything better than Fiery Temper. I do like the way Key allows safe swings with Garrison.
The servos can't swing until T6 at best. I don't know that you go wide enough for Start Your Engines to be good, but it also seems powerful.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.