This early in the format will a 4th Chandra be REALLY useful?
Early formats have historically been dominated by aggro decks. without a wipe card or otherwise equally aggressive deck you will have bad match-ups.
In a purely theoretical situation here, as i have not looked at any B/R vamp madness deck lists, without a board wipe or very many creatures how do you intend to deal with the following 4 turns?
That's 7 cards of 10-11 they get. you get 4-5 turns to interact with there board before.
Personally I'd say the 4th Chandra will be very useful, worse case scenario, the 2ed or 3rd copy is in your hand with one on the board that you can use to clear then play another and swing for 6.
True, definately true. I have shoots and K.Rtn SB but you dont know that, didnt post it.
But why not play a 4th chandra that I can take out games 2 and 3 if I want? When is Chandra ever bad? So -1 Conduit of Ruin, +1 Chandra, Conduit goes to SB, -1 Shoot.
Now I am thinking, what about -1 Worldbreaker, +1 Atarka main just to kill creatures and walkers. I think WorldBreakers value has gone down as the mana bases have become simpler and can you think of any key artifacts or Enchantments that will need Exiling?
Best use for Breaker now would be exiling that Demon land .
I was thinking only four 4drops were 2 few, should I change the 2 hedron archives to Pilgrimages?
This early in the format will a 4th Chandra be REALLY useful?
I think that people should be playing 4 Chandra's. Most lists previously were running a 3/2; 3/3 or 2/3 split of Ugin and Chandra. With another Ugin/Chandra in the SB. Chandra is going to have a big target on her back with all the hype she is getting with "experts" calling her one of the best cards for the new standard. She will also be our best way to control and stabilize the board game 1; unless you are running KR in the main. So against aggressive decks I can see her coming down before World Breaker (even if we have 7 mana available) and her -X ability being used to clear the board. I also see that there will be times to where the -X will be 4 right off the bat; so having a 3 more copies that can be drawn is going to help.
I look at Hedron Archive as not only a way for us to ramp into 6 or 7 mana by turn 4; but also as added card draw if I start to flood out later in the game. As for Pilgrimage; I think that it should be played; since it gives us something play on turn 3 if we don't have 4 mana to play Explosive or Archive; and if we do have the 4 mana and neither of those cards in hand; it still helps us get to the magical 6 mana figure on turn 4 to play Chandra. Since you are putting a forest on the battlefield and another in your hand. It also keeps you from having to mulligan some hands; since you can still get to 6 mana on turn 4.
Psy
Yea, -2 Hedron, +2 Pilgrimage. If I dont have a T2 play or my dork gets killed I dont want to be stranded waiting until I get to play 4 lands to play that archive, I would rather play pilgrimage on turn 3 and get to my threats, then there is the debatable/minimal thinning that happens.
Thanks for getting me off the 'fence'.
I'm looking at going back to RitW set up. Land base wise is Cinder Glade really important? I get that it taps for 2 colors but it CIP Tapped, I don't mind running 3 mountain, 10 Forrest instead.
Thats my suggested foundation, what would you suggest adding?
I like +1 Waste for 4, people have been talking about how thats a good number.
I definately want to up the red count, I think 1 Cinder Glade is ok.
- Im off Game trail
Maybe +1: Waste, Mountain and Cinder Glade?
I feel 4 Waste is optimal as well, with the added Traverses, it's much better compared to only with EV & Oath of Nissa. I'll go with this :
Do we need 3 Conduit? I'm looking at diversifying the threats. Bane of Bala Ged is one, if not the better option around that steadily lays down threat while also triggering both Sanctum & K.Return. Desolation Twin could be another one if we look at it, but honestly at 10 I'll rather be playing Kozeilk instead.
What I'm looking at is playing 2 of the Hydra as another win condition with a singleton of Rogue's Passage. The Rogue's Passage will prob replace 1 of the Sanctum instead.
Lots of player are working on B/W Control in my meta, along with Walker based builds that are a pain in the -BLEEP- ( I really think Ugin rotating is HUGE). Giving them targets for their removal is actually not where I want to be G1. It seems like this isn't going to be a normal week 1 where R aggro decks take it down. The BW Control deck and UR TiTi are popping up on different sites and on paper. I'm seeing U/W Midrange and I think giving decks little to 0 Interaction is better than putting a dork out there that doesn't even give you R for Returns.
On the future of Kozilek's Return, there is a down tick in Sylvan Adovocate and an uptick in token based starts to fuel Westavle Abbey. Return becomes a vital part of ramp's ability to stay in the game I'm not sure it's going to be enough, since Avacyn coming down and stone walling your 1st wave and 2nd coming of return is not , I repeat NOT cool. The reach creatures will be relevant.
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Not a problem, i actually screwed up the combat math there from the min max damage. It's 20 max on turn 4 swing if they had a bloodmad on T2 (it gets a +1/+1 counter when it smacks yo face )
That being said, Off the top of my head I don't think there are any enchantments to be worried about that the 4th worldbreaker might help vs the only ones that DO come to mind are. Sphinx's Tutelage for the mill decks, but they mill your world breakers so ... ya Cryptolith Rite.deck? I've heard about some brews with this but they seemed bad to me at the time since they did the whole 'use lots of small dudes to ramp with this' instead of 'use lots of small dudes to beat your face' don't know were these decks ended up. Invocation of Saint Traft might see play, but I don't think this deck cares about that. Triskaidekaphobia because well, I wanna see a deck that makes it work. I think we ALL do at that. Assault Formation eldrazi.deck I saw it a month or so ago at a FNM. the deck looked interesting doubt it will take off though.
Artifact wise there is always hangerback,
i can see Neglected Heirloom being used in a transformers deck, Brain in a Jar might see play because of the 'buildaroundme' the card screams, once you give it a mouth of course Stoneforge Masterwork but creature wipes kill it.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
I have kept the Ruin list in the primer updated, but this is my most current version. I'm trying out Seasons Past in the board, but with all of the exile, it may not end up being as good as I hope. Traverse the Ulvenwald has been ok, but when I've gotten it late, I've usually had to go out of my way to enable delirium. For that reason, I wouldn't want too many, but it has won me a game by tutoring Ulamog when I needed him and 1-2 seem good.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
What I'm looking at are 2 things :
1. Triggers off K.Return in the event that World Breakers get Obliterated.
2. Triggers off Sanctum to find us other threats to keep it constant.
Bane is a threat on it's own, survives Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Thou dies to Roast and Lightning Axe. It demands an answer if we triggered K.Return as we cast it as they won't be able to have tokens floating around to use as fodders. Gaea's Revenge is good but doesn't triggers the 2 cards we need to maintain board presence. Other Eldrazi doesn't seems to do much, or doesn't fit into the plan well enough for Ramp. There isn't other new Big Red creature that is worth going deep into nor another fatty besides the new Hydra which looks fitting for this deck.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
What I'm looking at are 2 things :
1. Triggers off K.Return in the event that World Breakers get Obliterated.
2. Triggers off Sanctum to find us other threats to keep it constant.
Bane is a threat on it's own, survives Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Thou dies to Roast and Lightning Axe. It demands an answer if we triggered K.Return as we cast it as they won't be able to have tokens floating around to use as fodders. Gaea's Revenge is good but doesn't triggers the 2 cards we need to maintain board presence. Other Eldrazi doesn't seems to do much, or doesn't fit into the plan well enough for Ramp. There isn't other new Big Red creature that is worth going deep into nor another fatty besides the new Hydra which looks fitting for this deck.
honestly against the Bx decks where you are likely to get obliterated, I find warping wail to be the best answer. Although I usually also diversify my threats a little as well from sb.
It hits their card draw and if BUx jace as well
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
What I'm looking at are 2 things :
1. Triggers off K.Return in the event that World Breakers get Obliterated.
2. Triggers off Sanctum to find us other threats to keep it constant.
Bane is a threat on it's own, survives Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Thou dies to Roast and Lightning Axe. It demands an answer if we triggered K.Return as we cast it as they won't be able to have tokens floating around to use as fodders. Gaea's Revenge is good but doesn't triggers the 2 cards we need to maintain board presence. Other Eldrazi doesn't seems to do much, or doesn't fit into the plan well enough for Ramp. There isn't other new Big Red creature that is worth going deep into nor another fatty besides the new Hydra which looks fitting for this deck.
honestly against the Bx decks where you are likely to get obliterated, I find warping wail to be the best answer. Although I usually also diversify my threats a little as well from sb.
It hits their card draw and if BUx jace as well
Warping Wail is important, I'll agree with that, only issue it'll compete for space. Running 4 of or split it in SB and main deck is possible. Just that in order to have it in time against Obliteration, you'll need to be able to draw it. Not to mention if they play GDD, it'll mean a flashback of that as well.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
What I'm looking at are 2 things :
1. Triggers off K.Return in the event that World Breakers get Obliterated.
2. Triggers off Sanctum to find us other threats to keep it constant.
Bane is a threat on it's own, survives Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Thou dies to Roast and Lightning Axe. It demands an answer if we triggered K.Return as we cast it as they won't be able to have tokens floating around to use as fodders. Gaea's Revenge is good but doesn't triggers the 2 cards we need to maintain board presence. Other Eldrazi doesn't seems to do much, or doesn't fit into the plan well enough for Ramp. There isn't other new Big Red creature that is worth going deep into nor another fatty besides the new Hydra which looks fitting for this deck.
honestly against the Bx decks where you are likely to get obliterated, I find warping wail to be the best answer. Although I usually also diversify my threats a little as well from sb.
It hits their card draw and if BUx jace as well
Warping Wail is important, I'll agree with that, only issue it'll compete for space. Running 4 of or split it in SB and main deck is possible. Just that in order to have it in time against Obliteration, you'll need to be able to draw it. Not to mention if they play GDD, it'll mean a flashback of that as well.
orbs of warding is a card to consider I found it to be useful last season
I haven't come up with a list myself yet, but I am tossing around some ideas.
For those who are considering running less than 4 World Breaker, remember, you're not running 4 to draw the 4th one, you're running 4 to draw the 1st one. Something to remember.
My thoughts on Ulvenwald Hydra vs. Conduit of Ruin. Removal has gotten even better than it was. Lightning Axe and Roast will kill Conduit of Ruin, but not the Hydra. For all the other cases, where either is killed, you're choosing between being left with a 7th land in play, or with what you tutored for on top of your deck, but still at 6 lands.
I think I would much rather depend on what's in my hand and my next draw with 7 lands than the hand and world breaker on top with 6 lands. Just my 2c.
Plus, it's looking like dragons is still going to be popular, and having more big fat reachers seems like where we want to be, if it's still on-plan.
Not a problem, i actually screwed up the combat math there from the min max damage. It's 20 max on turn 4 swing if they had a bloodmad on T2 (it gets a +1/+1 counter when it smacks yo face )
That being said, Off the top of my head I don't think there are any enchantments to be worried about that the 4th worldbreaker might help vs the only ones that DO come to mind are. Sphinx's Tutelage for the mill decks, but they mill your world breakers so ... ya Cryptolith Rite.deck? I've heard about some brews with this but they seemed bad to me at the time since they did the whole 'use lots of small dudes to ramp with this' instead of 'use lots of small dudes to beat your face' don't know were these decks ended up. Invocation of Saint Traft might see play, but I don't think this deck cares about that. Triskaidekaphobia because well, I wanna see a deck that makes it work. I think we ALL do at that. Assault Formation eldrazi.deck I saw it a month or so ago at a FNM. the deck looked interesting doubt it will take off though.
Artifact wise there is always hangerback,
i can see Neglected Heirloom being used in a transformers deck, Brain in a Jar might see play because of the 'buildaroundme' the card screams, once you give it a mouth of course Stoneforge Masterwork but creature wipes kill it.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
I'd like to point out here that Always Watching is out there and hitting that with a World Breaker than resolving a K Return Trigger that kills their now 5 toughness angels is sweet. It's a play I've had more than once against W/g build of the humans aggro deck that is poised to really put pressure on us to focus on our aggro match ups.
On that note, I also ran into a BW Control deck that post-board just wiped the floor with me. Infinite Obliteration (never had any of my four warping wails in hand) in tandem with Transgress the Mind is really no fun for us.
Trying the new version of the deck....i've been playing with decent success rate a BG version with Ugin, so now switching to this.
The loss of Ugin means we miss the mass removal he offered, so 4x Chandra, Flamecaller is a must in my opinion, since he's a winning condition that can fill the same role as Ugin (even if with x/4 MAX)
I noticed that, with Oath and Traverse (i play 3/3), and Evolving Wilds getting the mana color you need is not easy...it is normal, you always look for what you need. So i decided to add white (2 Plains) for the best removal of the format (and i bet it will remain the best for a looooont time) Declaration in Stone.
It only needs 1W, and since we have it (even if you pack a single plain in your 60), there is no point in not using the best removal in the format.
Kozilek's Return is..useful, but it does 2 dmg for 3, meaning every time they play X/3 creatures, you have a useless card in hand. Chandra wipe stops at 4. So we NEED a decent removal for annoying creatures they may put in play..and this is by far, the best solution.
I haven't come up with a list myself yet, but I am tossing around some ideas.
For those who are considering running less than 4 World Breaker, remember, you're not running 4 to draw the 4th one, you're running 4 to draw the 1st one. Something to remember.
My thoughts on Ulvenwald Hydra vs. Conduit of Ruin. Removal has gotten even better than it was. Lightning Axe and Roast will kill Conduit of Ruin, but not the Hydra. For all the other cases, where either is killed, you're choosing between being left with a 7th land in play, or with what you tutored for on top of your deck, but still at 6 lands.
I think I would much rather depend on what's in my hand and my next draw with 7 lands than the hand and world breaker on top with 6 lands. Just my 2c.
Plus, it's looking like dragons is still going to be popular, and having more big fat reachers seems like where we want to be, if it's still on-plan.
Those removal spells are specific removal spells that hit conduit and not the hydra specifically. Its too early to tell but I dont think decks will board in or keep Roast or lightning axe against a deck that has 1-2 targets in it.
IMO at least 2 conduit of ruin in one's 75 should be allowed to fetch Void Winnower against the mirror, it is REALLY hard to beat that card in the mirror.
If dragons is one of the top dogs then yes I would definitely take Hydra over conduit MD due to reach but if you untap with either or see either in the late game I'll take conduit 100% of the time to fetch up ulamog or Worldbreaker that is transgress proof and can start my chain with sanctums in play.
Cant wait for 4/18 > Soi is released on MTGO.....Going to get my grind on!!!!
daily reports and im going to get my feet wet with streaming.
All Ramp all day.
I wasn't able to get all the new cards that I was looking for before FNM started so I ended up running a slightly different list then what I posted earlier. I ended up going 3-0 tonight.
Match 1 was against R/U Control that was not tuned. I won 2-0.
Game 1 He got stuck on 2 lands for most of the game (he said he was running 25 total) so he didn't have any interaction with me and I ramped into World Breaker into Ulamog the next turn. He scooped and on to game 2.
Game 2 Wasn't much better. He played lands but no spells and he couldn't deal with Chandra + World Breaker and that was it. Both games took less then 15 minutes with most of that me shuffling my deck.
Match 2 was against a guy playing G/B Elves. I won 2-0.
Game 1 He started off with Gnarlroot Trapper into Thombow Archer + Elvish Visionary on turn 2. Turn 3 was another Thombow + Dwynen's Elite; to which I replied with KR and wiped the board. He never recovered and I got Chandra in play along with World Breaker and he couldn't answer 11 coming his way each turn.
Game 2 He didn't dump his hand; but KR + DLA kept the board clear and then World Breaker took it home.
Match 3 was against CoCo Bant I won 2-1.
Game 1 I ended up ramping into DLA to clear his board and stabilize at 9 life. I was able to get World Breaker down the next turn and he didn't CoCo into anything that could save him from DLA + World Breaker.
Game 2 He got a decent start (no turn 2 play) but was able to reflector mage way DLA twice and WB once. His CoCo's were better this game and end though I played 2 KR's on back to back turns; I wasn't able to keep the board clear. I didn't draw an Oath and only had a Cinder Glade in play so even though I had 2 more KR's in my hand which would have cleared the board I had no way to play them both at the same time; nor could I play Chandra so his creature beat down took the game.
Game 3 was similar to game 1. He didn't have a turn 2 play and his turn 4 CoCo only hit 1 creature; which I took care of with KR. I kept ramping and somewhat kept the board clear with a 2nd KR; but didn't draw in a threat. He finally ended up after a CoCo with board state of 3 Sylvan Advocate's and a Reflector Mage. I had a DLA that I played the turn after he bounced my World Breaker (I used the 5 Damage from DLA to kill a Deathmist Raptor that he played earlier. I played World Breaker and exiled a KR from my graveyard that cleared his board. I was at 7 life by this point and he was not able to recover. He didn't have any way to play the Reflector Mage from his hand (no blue source) and so he couldn't stop the DLA + World Breaker beat down.
Over all I was pleased. The Bant CoCo match was the only real competitive match of the night; but I feel that if I could have drawn a 2nd R source that I wouldn't have lost game 2. Since I had a turn 4 Chandra that I couldn't play so my option was to play DLA or KR's and watch DLA get bounced by Reflector Mage. So definitely going to increase my R sources to 6 from the 4 that I played tonight (again I didn't have all the new cards I was hoping for before the matches started. I think I going to go with 1 Game Trail and another Mountain.
Also I think that Gaea's Revenge should be tested more as a card to add to the SB. It dodges white and black removal; it can't be bounced by Reflector Mage and can't be the target of direct damage red spells. I'm starting to feel that it should be pretty good in this meta.
While there are now a lot of x/2 toughness creatures; there is still quite a few x/3 toughness creatures that KR won't sweep. Having access to Chandra and being able to remove up to 4 toughness creatures the turn she comes down is an effective play and can be a game changer.
Lastly Ugin will be missed since Ugin was the great equalizer.
Psy
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Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
Hm. Warping Wail and Thought-Knot Seer. Every time I see thought knot seer and think about casting it 3rd turn I'm excited, but at the same time have the classic question with this deck. What do you take out? So I guess for the people running it: What do you take out?
went 2-2 today, I did want to try to nihiri but they havnt arrived yet and only had 3 Deathcap Cultivator so added void winnower to main deck and 1 travese and 1 hyydra.
On the draw all day as usual. I beat eldrazi red and the mirror, I lost to agressive bant (dead by t5 and 6) and mono red splashing atarkas command (dead turn 4 both games) drew no interaction g1 and no red or white g2 with interaction in hand.
over all pretty happy with the deck, preformed well in the mirror. the aggro m/up.
Declaration in stone is awesome bought 2 in board in every m/up. Maybe a biger bias to white and running 4 main board to give us time to ramp into our payoff cards.
The blighted woodlands are really good for mana fixing, and except in the very aggressive aggro m/ups where a dual land could be better way better than evolving wilds as you can still curve out
Hm. Warping Wail and Thought-Knot Seer. Every time I see thought knot seer and think about casting it 3rd turn I'm excited, but at the same time have the classic question with this deck. What do you take out? So I guess for the people running it: What do you take out?
This is my deck. Haven't had a chance to test it so far since last night was SoI draft and I just built it. It needs at least 1 DLA; trying to trade for that at the moment (c'mon PucaTrade!), and the 4th Kozilek's Return for the SB is coming in the mail:
Declaration in stone is awesome bought 2 in board in every m/up. Maybe a biger bias to white and running 4 main board to give us time to ramp into our payoff cards.
The blighted woodlands are really good for mana fixing, and except in the very aggressive aggro m/ups where a dual land could be better way better than evolving wilds as you can still curve out
Declaration is an amazing card, and always has a target....sometimes even multiple ones.
Suggestion? Move declaration MB, you will never regret having it in hand..i play 4 Main
On a side note, for everyone playing kozilek main......Kozilek's return most of the time is useless. X/3 creatures are in every deck, only very few ones don't play them...i am losing counts of the matches i lost with Zozilek's Return in hand while they killed me with X/3 X/4 creatures. If i had a ramp, i could have played something betetr earlier. If i had a decent single target removal, i would have had 1 creature less killing me. If i had a 3 mana Pyroclasm....i would have died, like i did
Our best sweeper paired with a cmc 7? Meaning u need 2 spells, and a cmc7 creature to cast it effectively....no thanks
use chandra for 4 dmg if u need, cost 6 mana, not 10
P.S.
The format will have a lot of fast aggro, Sylvan Advocate will see a lot of play. You cannot wait for Worldbreaker (remember Atarka won't trigger it) to clear the board.....or you could, but lose the game, your decision.
Our best sweeper paired with a cmc 7? Meaning u need 2 spells, and a cmc7 creature to cast it effectively....no thanks
use chandra for 4 dmg if u need, cost 6 mana, not 10
P.S.
The format will have a lot of fast aggro, Sylvan Advocate will see a lot of play. You cannot wait for Worldbreaker (remember Atarka won't trigger it) to clear the board.....or you could, but lose the game, your decision.
Sin Prodder, half the Vampires, half the GW Humans... Plus: It helps with Uverwald delirium getting instant, and the trigger is uncountereable. I don't think it's as bad as you put ir, just don't 4-of-em on MB. Maybe 2.
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I'm not saying it is always bad, but..it is a SB card. You side it in in those matches you said, but....against the rest of the field....against ANY x/3 creature...it is a bit better than a land.
As for me, i always keep 2 in my side, and if i see opponent playing a lot of x/1 x/2 creatures, i side it in. But..if they don't..i save myself form having 2 dead cards in my deck.
P.S.
As yu said HALF of the Vampires, HALF of GW humans (they also use the new Anthem and the little guys who gives counters)
I'm not saying it is always bad, but..it is a SB card. You side it in in those matches you said, but....against the rest of the field....against ANY x/3 creature...it is a bit better than a land.
As for me, i always keep 2 in my side, and if i see opponent playing a lot of x/1 x/2 creatures, i side it in. But..if they don't..i save myself form having 2 dead cards in my deck.
P.S.
As yu said HALF of the Vampires, HALF of GW humans (they also use the new Anthem and the little guys who gives counters)
It is of course a SB card. But the trend always is, when a new Standard rotates, Aggro decks are the first to emerge (because they're easier to play, normally cheapest to get, and always have pieces) so a SB card vs Aggro becomes a MB after rotation. This year may be not the case, but depends on everyones meta. I'm surely putting at least a singleton.
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True, definately true. I have shoots and K.Rtn SB but you dont know that, didnt post it.
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Jaddi offshoot
3 Plummet
1 Void Winnower
1 Conduit of Ruin
But why not play a 4th chandra that I can take out games 2 and 3 if I want? When is Chandra ever bad? So -1 Conduit of Ruin, +1 Chandra, Conduit goes to SB, -1 Shoot.
Now I am thinking, what about -1 Worldbreaker, +1 Atarka main just to kill creatures and walkers. I think WorldBreakers value has gone down as the mana bases have become simpler and can you think of any key artifacts or Enchantments that will need Exiling?
Best use for Breaker now would be exiling that Demon land .
Yea, -2 Hedron, +2 Pilgrimage. If I dont have a T2 play or my dork gets killed I dont want to be stranded waiting until I get to play 4 lands to play that archive, I would rather play pilgrimage on turn 3 and get to my threats, then there is the debatable/minimal thinning that happens.
Thanks for getting me off the 'fence'.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
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I feel 4 Waste is optimal as well, with the added Traverses, it's much better compared to only with EV & Oath of Nissa. I'll go with this :
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Mountain
4 Waste
1 Cinder Glade
3 Sanctum of Ugin
25 Lands as optimal, 4 Traverse, 4 Evolving Wilds, 3 Oath is 10 ways to grab that Waste out for T2 Ruins
Sideboard Wise I'm looking at this
3 Roast
2 Bane of Bala Ged
1 Kozelik, the Great Distortion
1 Void Winnower
2 Warping Wail
1 Kozelik's Return
3 Conduit of Ruin
Do we need 3 Conduit? I'm looking at diversifying the threats. Bane of Bala Ged is one, if not the better option around that steadily lays down threat while also triggering both Sanctum & K.Return. Desolation Twin could be another one if we look at it, but honestly at 10 I'll rather be playing Kozeilk instead.
What I'm looking at is playing 2 of the Hydra as another win condition with a singleton of Rogue's Passage. The Rogue's Passage will prob replace 1 of the Sanctum instead.
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
On the future of Kozilek's Return, there is a down tick in Sylvan Adovocate and an uptick in token based starts to fuel Westavle Abbey. Return becomes a vital part of ramp's ability to stay in the game I'm not sure it's going to be enough, since Avacyn coming down and stone walling your 1st wave and 2nd coming of return is not , I repeat NOT cool. The reach creatures will be relevant.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Not a problem, i actually screwed up the combat math there from the min max damage. It's 20 max on turn 4 swing if they had a bloodmad on T2 (it gets a +1/+1 counter when it smacks yo face )
That being said, Off the top of my head I don't think there are any enchantments to be worried about that the 4th worldbreaker might help vs the only ones that DO come to mind are.
Sphinx's Tutelage for the mill decks, but they mill your world breakers so ... ya
Cryptolith Rite.deck? I've heard about some brews with this but they seemed bad to me at the time since they did the whole 'use lots of small dudes to ramp with this' instead of 'use lots of small dudes to beat your face' don't know were these decks ended up.
Invocation of Saint Traft might see play, but I don't think this deck cares about that.
Triskaidekaphobia because well, I wanna see a deck that makes it work. I think we ALL do at that.
Assault Formation eldrazi.deck I saw it a month or so ago at a FNM. the deck looked interesting doubt it will take off though.
Artifact wise there is always hangerback,
i can see Neglected Heirloom being used in a transformers deck,
Brain in a Jar might see play because of the 'buildaroundme' the card screams, once you give it a mouth of course
Stoneforge Masterwork but creature wipes kill it.
Somatic3, whats your experiences on Bane of Bala Ged? it to me seems like one of the 'answer it or lose' cards but since they get to pick what they exile... ya.
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Ruin in their Wake
4 Warping Wail
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
3 Hedron Archive
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Dragonlord Atarka
4 World Breaker
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Cinder Glade
3 Sanctum of Ugin
6 Forest
5 Wastes
2 Mountain
2 Roast
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Tears of Valakut
1 Kozilek's Return
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Seasons Past
Modern: UW Spirits
What I'm looking at are 2 things :
1. Triggers off K.Return in the event that World Breakers get Obliterated.
2. Triggers off Sanctum to find us other threats to keep it constant.
Bane is a threat on it's own, survives Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Thou dies to Roast and Lightning Axe. It demands an answer if we triggered K.Return as we cast it as they won't be able to have tokens floating around to use as fodders. Gaea's Revenge is good but doesn't triggers the 2 cards we need to maintain board presence. Other Eldrazi doesn't seems to do much, or doesn't fit into the plan well enough for Ramp. There isn't other new Big Red creature that is worth going deep into nor another fatty besides the new Hydra which looks fitting for this deck.
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
honestly against the Bx decks where you are likely to get obliterated, I find warping wail to be the best answer. Although I usually also diversify my threats a little as well from sb.
It hits their card draw and if BUx jace as well
Warping Wail is important, I'll agree with that, only issue it'll compete for space. Running 4 of or split it in SB and main deck is possible. Just that in order to have it in time against Obliteration, you'll need to be able to draw it. Not to mention if they play GDD, it'll mean a flashback of that as well.
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
orbs of warding is a card to consider I found it to be useful last season
For those who are considering running less than 4 World Breaker, remember, you're not running 4 to draw the 4th one, you're running 4 to draw the 1st one. Something to remember.
My thoughts on Ulvenwald Hydra vs. Conduit of Ruin. Removal has gotten even better than it was. Lightning Axe and Roast will kill Conduit of Ruin, but not the Hydra. For all the other cases, where either is killed, you're choosing between being left with a 7th land in play, or with what you tutored for on top of your deck, but still at 6 lands.
I think I would much rather depend on what's in my hand and my next draw with 7 lands than the hand and world breaker on top with 6 lands. Just my 2c.
Plus, it's looking like dragons is still going to be popular, and having more big fat reachers seems like where we want to be, if it's still on-plan.
I'd like to point out here that Always Watching is out there and hitting that with a World Breaker than resolving a K Return Trigger that kills their now 5 toughness angels is sweet. It's a play I've had more than once against W/g build of the humans aggro deck that is poised to really put pressure on us to focus on our aggro match ups.
On that note, I also ran into a BW Control deck that post-board just wiped the floor with me. Infinite Obliteration (never had any of my four warping wails in hand) in tandem with Transgress the Mind is really no fun for us.
The loss of Ugin means we miss the mass removal he offered, so 4x Chandra, Flamecaller is a must in my opinion, since he's a winning condition that can fill the same role as Ugin (even if with x/4 MAX)
I noticed that, with Oath and Traverse (i play 3/3), and Evolving Wilds getting the mana color you need is not easy...it is normal, you always look for what you need. So i decided to add white (2 Plains) for the best removal of the format (and i bet it will remain the best for a looooont time) Declaration in Stone.
It only needs 1W, and since we have it (even if you pack a single plain in your 60), there is no point in not using the best removal in the format.
Kozilek's Return is..useful, but it does 2 dmg for 3, meaning every time they play X/3 creatures, you have a useless card in hand. Chandra wipe stops at 4. So we NEED a decent removal for annoying creatures they may put in play..and this is by far, the best solution.
Those removal spells are specific removal spells that hit conduit and not the hydra specifically. Its too early to tell but I dont think decks will board in or keep Roast or lightning axe against a deck that has 1-2 targets in it.
IMO at least 2 conduit of ruin in one's 75 should be allowed to fetch Void Winnower against the mirror, it is REALLY hard to beat that card in the mirror.
If dragons is one of the top dogs then yes I would definitely take Hydra over conduit MD due to reach but if you untap with either or see either in the late game I'll take conduit 100% of the time to fetch up ulamog or Worldbreaker that is transgress proof and can start my chain with sanctums in play.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32730_Keeping-SCGBALT-Under-Control.html
I keep thinking about Warping Wail main to prevent discard, kill Jace's and other small critters.
Cant wait for 4/18 > Soi is released on MTGO.....Going to get my grind on!!!!
daily reports and im going to get my feet wet with streaming.
All Ramp all day.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Match 1 was against R/U Control that was not tuned. I won 2-0.
Game 1 He got stuck on 2 lands for most of the game (he said he was running 25 total) so he didn't have any interaction with me and I ramped into World Breaker into Ulamog the next turn. He scooped and on to game 2.
Game 2 Wasn't much better. He played lands but no spells and he couldn't deal with Chandra + World Breaker and that was it. Both games took less then 15 minutes with most of that me shuffling my deck.
Match 2 was against a guy playing G/B Elves. I won 2-0.
Game 1 He started off with Gnarlroot Trapper into Thombow Archer + Elvish Visionary on turn 2. Turn 3 was another Thombow + Dwynen's Elite; to which I replied with KR and wiped the board. He never recovered and I got Chandra in play along with World Breaker and he couldn't answer 11 coming his way each turn.
Game 2 He didn't dump his hand; but KR + DLA kept the board clear and then World Breaker took it home.
Match 3 was against CoCo Bant I won 2-1.
Game 1 I ended up ramping into DLA to clear his board and stabilize at 9 life. I was able to get World Breaker down the next turn and he didn't CoCo into anything that could save him from DLA + World Breaker.
Game 2 He got a decent start (no turn 2 play) but was able to reflector mage way DLA twice and WB once. His CoCo's were better this game and end though I played 2 KR's on back to back turns; I wasn't able to keep the board clear. I didn't draw an Oath and only had a Cinder Glade in play so even though I had 2 more KR's in my hand which would have cleared the board I had no way to play them both at the same time; nor could I play Chandra so his creature beat down took the game.
Game 3 was similar to game 1. He didn't have a turn 2 play and his turn 4 CoCo only hit 1 creature; which I took care of with KR. I kept ramping and somewhat kept the board clear with a 2nd KR; but didn't draw in a threat. He finally ended up after a CoCo with board state of 3 Sylvan Advocate's and a Reflector Mage. I had a DLA that I played the turn after he bounced my World Breaker (I used the 5 Damage from DLA to kill a Deathmist Raptor that he played earlier. I played World Breaker and exiled a KR from my graveyard that cleared his board. I was at 7 life by this point and he was not able to recover. He didn't have any way to play the Reflector Mage from his hand (no blue source) and so he couldn't stop the DLA + World Breaker beat down.
Over all I was pleased. The Bant CoCo match was the only real competitive match of the night; but I feel that if I could have drawn a 2nd R source that I wouldn't have lost game 2. Since I had a turn 4 Chandra that I couldn't play so my option was to play DLA or KR's and watch DLA get bounced by Reflector Mage. So definitely going to increase my R sources to 6 from the 4 that I played tonight (again I didn't have all the new cards I was hoping for before the matches started. I think I going to go with 1 Game Trail and another Mountain.
Also I think that Gaea's Revenge should be tested more as a card to add to the SB. It dodges white and black removal; it can't be bounced by Reflector Mage and can't be the target of direct damage red spells. I'm starting to feel that it should be pretty good in this meta.
While there are now a lot of x/2 toughness creatures; there is still quite a few x/3 toughness creatures that KR won't sweep. Having access to Chandra and being able to remove up to 4 toughness creatures the turn she comes down is an effective play and can be a game changer.
Lastly Ugin will be missed since Ugin was the great equalizer.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
On the draw all day as usual. I beat eldrazi red and the mirror, I lost to agressive bant (dead by t5 and 6) and mono red splashing atarkas command (dead turn 4 both games) drew no interaction g1 and no red or white g2 with interaction in hand.
over all pretty happy with the deck, preformed well in the mirror. the aggro m/up.
Declaration in stone is awesome bought 2 in board in every m/up. Maybe a biger bias to white and running 4 main board to give us time to ramp into our payoff cards.
The blighted woodlands are really good for mana fixing, and except in the very aggressive aggro m/ups where a dual land could be better way better than evolving wilds as you can still curve out
1 Plains
12 Forest
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
3 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Blighted Woodlands
4 World Breaker
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
3 Deathcap Cultivator
1 traverse the ulvenwald
2 Conduit of Ruin
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
1 dragonlord dromoka
1 Reclaiming Vines
3 Pulse of Murasa
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Warping Wail
2 declaration in stone
1 crumble to dust
This is my deck. Haven't had a chance to test it so far since last night was SoI draft and I just built it. It needs at least 1 DLA; trying to trade for that at the moment (c'mon PucaTrade!), and the 4th Kozilek's Return for the SB is coming in the mail:
10 Forest
5 Wastes
3 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Sanctum of Ugin
Threats
4 World Breaker
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
Ramp/Enablers
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Ruin in their Wake
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Explosive Vegetation
1 Hedron Archive
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Plummet
3 Sylvan Advocate
3 Roast
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Declaration is an amazing card, and always has a target....sometimes even multiple ones.
Suggestion? Move declaration MB, you will never regret having it in hand..i play 4 Main
On a side note, for everyone playing kozilek main......Kozilek's return most of the time is useless. X/3 creatures are in every deck, only very few ones don't play them...i am losing counts of the matches i lost with Zozilek's Return in hand while they killed me with X/3 X/4 creatures. If i had a ramp, i could have played something betetr earlier. If i had a decent single target removal, i would have had 1 creature less killing me. If i had a 3 mana Pyroclasm....i would have died, like i did
Modern: UW Spirits
Our best sweeper paired with a cmc 7? Meaning u need 2 spells, and a cmc7 creature to cast it effectively....no thanks
use chandra for 4 dmg if u need, cost 6 mana, not 10
P.S.
The format will have a lot of fast aggro, Sylvan Advocate will see a lot of play. You cannot wait for Worldbreaker (remember Atarka won't trigger it) to clear the board.....or you could, but lose the game, your decision.
Sin Prodder, half the Vampires, half the GW Humans... Plus: It helps with Uverwald delirium getting instant, and the trigger is uncountereable. I don't think it's as bad as you put ir, just don't 4-of-em on MB. Maybe 2.
Modern: White Weenie Knights!
EDH: Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR| Daretti, Scrap Savant R
As for me, i always keep 2 in my side, and if i see opponent playing a lot of x/1 x/2 creatures, i side it in. But..if they don't..i save myself form having 2 dead cards in my deck.
P.S.
As yu said HALF of the Vampires, HALF of GW humans (they also use the new Anthem and the little guys who gives counters)
It is of course a SB card. But the trend always is, when a new Standard rotates, Aggro decks are the first to emerge (because they're easier to play, normally cheapest to get, and always have pieces) so a SB card vs Aggro becomes a MB after rotation. This year may be not the case, but depends on everyones meta. I'm surely putting at least a singleton.
Modern: White Weenie Knights!
EDH: Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR| Daretti, Scrap Savant R