The concept of B Orzhov Control W [Black/White] is designed around Kaya's Wrath
The restrictive mana cost of Kaya's Wrath and simplicity of two tone mana offers a straight forward painless land base.
BW otpions include premium removal. A tap-out style as an alternative from draw-go blue based counter spell control. Strong against a creature heavy environment. Shifts into an offense based strategy post board against blue based control. Freedom to play more liberally on YOUR turn.
Kaya's Wrath: The best argument to go straight BW in a simple to cast turn four destroy all creatures nuclear blast.
Kaya, Orzhov Usurper Stablizes against creature attacks gaining us life and forcing a response from the enemy. Kaya also removes recurring threats from the graveyard like GutterBones, Arclight Phoenix, and anything Find // Finality may want.
However, Kaya interferes with The Eldest Reborn. So you will most likely not want both in your strategy.
The Eldest Reborn: Functionally a planeswalker. Removing enemy combatants. Hand disruption. Returns combatants to our side of the fight.
Karn, Scion of Urza: A turn four planeswlaker with high starting loyalty that helps find cards. And can immediately put creatures in battle to attack or defend.
Treasure Map: without blue mana, this artifact provides the draw and filtering. Doubles as synergy with Karn.
Angel of Grace Supreme finisher. Turns the tide quickly. Grace does not have to be flashed in only when you are facing lethal. An EOT Grace followed by Dawnbringer Angel is such a big swing that it may even be worth playing second Lyra main deck.
I just broke arena with my take on it, simply because aggro is sooooo prevalent. Sideboard could probably use some thought because ranked is still unfortunately Bo1, but here's my take:
Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
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Thank you for your list Jdin.
Big question for you; why so few Kaya's Wrath?
Also what have been some our your difficult matches? Considering Bof1 however.
Kaya's wrath I'm just testing around with, but most of the time I'm not looking to wipe both sides. Hard matches for me have been control. That's about it, just control. Anything else I can keep up with for the most part.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Played a combination between the two decks posted here on Arena for a while. It's not too bad against Mono R burn if you have enough removal early on. Didn't face any Rakdos yet. It's great against creature heavy decks. It needs a lot of work against Teferi. It may need to become Esper to even have a chance, or needs hand disruption (which may help against Rakdos/Mono R as well). I'm not sure it's great in Bo1 because it doesn't spread the field enough. But I will try tweaking it. It's a lot of fun to play however and I'm around 50% wins with it.
I'd be a bit worried running into Rakdos Burn with this. Also how does it fair against teferi control?
It's atrocious. If you're going to be taking it to an FNM or anything Bo3, that's what you'll be using the sideboard for. I'd say it's a pure meta call. I don't have much problem with burn though, they usually aren't fast enough to kill me before I can get a Lyra on board. Even as a 2 of, I've been fairly consistent on pulling it out.
Played a combination between the two decks posted here on Arena for a while. It's not too bad against Mono R burn if you have enough removal early on. Didn't face any Rakdos yet. It's great against creature heavy decks. It needs a lot of work against Teferi. It may need to become Esper to even have a chance, or needs hand disruption (which may help against Rakdos/Mono R as well). I'm not sure it's great in Bo1 because it doesn't spread the field enough. But I will try tweaking it. It's a lot of fun to play however and I'm around 50% wins with it.
On Arena I'm getting about 80% RDW or w/x aggro. I'm currently gold rank 1 with a fairly decent MMR I'm guessing because it's rare that I see anything that isn't tier. The amount of aggro is the reason I'm playing this deck ATM. I sometimes switch it up to Gruul aggro just because it actually has game against control and can go over RDW (I'm using the explore package) but I'm really enjoying Orzhov moreso. I've tried converting it to Esper and it actually felt like it diluted it a bit and made the deck weaker versus aggro for a more balanced game against control. Not sure it's worth it.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Hi Everyone,
Over in the UBx Control thread, someone mentioned Kaya, Orzhov Usurper and Consecrate // Consume. After testing against mono red aggro and mono white aggro, I can confirm these cards help you stablize your life total.
It would be nice to have both Kaya and Karn in the setup. But Im not sure how to fit both.
Figured a way to squeeze in Karn. Still uncertain about his significance in the line up. Even though he is a source of card advantage and creature output. His impact can be slow.
The concept of BW control is battle hardened against even the toughest Gruul attack. Mortify and the second half of Consecrate // Consume are critical weapons. There is no fear of Carnage Tyrant
The difficult matches have been against Big Mana RUG Temur.
While keeping games close against highly aggressive dekcs.
I really want to add some number of Consume in my build as well, but I'm almost afraid it will dilute me against red which is where it's more a cantrip than anything, which is literally 9 out of 10 games I play. 4 mana gain 3 life sac a Chainwhirler is pretty meh. However, it does seem like some sweet tech in the mono red phoenix deck that's been popping up. If I sub out anything for it it will probably be the Eldest Reborn. Karn is also super sweet late game with treasure map. When you don't really need the extra cards the tokens get huge. 9 times out of 10 though I'm filtering with him though, I still wouldn't want to run my deck with less than 3.
After playing it heavily for another few days, I'm deeply considering removing the golden demise and settle the wreckage and adding more Kaya's Wrath, possibly another dawn of hope (definitely not more than 2) and going up to 4 Vraska's and 3-4 Mortify. I somewhat wouldn't mind adding something to make it more sturdy against control, but with me only going up against them a small amount, it's almost worth taking those losses game 1.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Hello Jdin,
Consume has been a blessing in the Red Burn contest. On paper, four mana to remove a 3 power or even a 2 power creature is technically mana negative. However destroying an attacker and gaining the life really makes up for it. It feels like the deck wants three Consecrate // Consume. Combine this with Kaya, Orzhov Usurper and we can really slow down Red Burn. It's possible that I need more play against mono red. But my experience has been positive thus far. The toughest aggro I have faced has been White Weenie and Rakdos Attack. Both were loses.
Kaya's Wrath is the build around card in this control shell. Can you share why you believe there should only be two and not four? And any other notes that you may have? Thanks!
My won rate against red, boros and rakdos is insanely high, it's really what this deck is built to counter. 4 wrath will be something I'll probably build to.
The no more than 2 of was dawn of hope, btw,not wrath
Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
My won rate against red, boros and rakdos is insanely high, it's really what this deck is built to counter. 4 wrath will be something I'll probably build to.
The no more than 2 of was dawn of hope, btw,not wrath
Ok Cool. Congrats on the victories! And thanks for the correction!
As mentioned, this deck folds pretty bad to control. Your only real hope is to jam duress and hope to protect your win cons with it. Dawn of hope is particularly good against Azorius but is awful against Esper.
My win rate versus Golgari is decent. Carny T is fairly easy to deal with in these colors. My biggest fear is Vivian, and you really have to play around her. I'd say that my win rate is around 60%, which to me is worth running.
Selesnya Aggro I would say I've had a decent time against it although I have only played a few matches against it (not quite as common for me, I face mostly r/x). Try your best to save your settles for March.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
I made some slight adjustments to my list. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be alright. Removed the cast down's and the golden demise plus 1 Eldest Reborn and added an additional Kaya's Wrath (still need more but unsure what to cut), 2 Consume, and went up to 4 Mortify although I might drop back down to the cast down, I'll figure that much out after play testing.
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MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Does this deck laugh at Red deck wins or is that an uphill battle?
When I play RDW I usually win with Frenzy since they need to use their more expensive permanent removal on stuff like Chainwhirler and Phoenix. This deck has access to Mortify which is cheaper, instant and solves a lot of the issues with Frenzy (You can't play too many cmc 4 Oblivion Ring effects against red since they're too slow in high multiples)
Orzhov Control really looks like fun. (For you... ...not that much for your opponents).
I'm not a big fan of Lyra Dawnbringer and Angel of Grace tho... ...most decks run creature removal and you don't have discard or counterspells to protect them.
I think, I'd build something with Dawn of Hope as a Finisher, with 2 The Immortal Sun and 1 Ethereal Absolution as support. I think, this is neccessary because the decks I have seen look like they have to struggle with Esper or Dimir Control...
I played a similiar mono white control deck like this with Cleansing Nova instead of Kaya's Wrath and Seal Away instead of Mortify. Worked pretty good. With black it would look something like this:
Hello Z31tG315t,
Thank you for you thoughtful and unique design on Orzhov Control. Your multitude of enchantments weaken the effect of opposing Mortify answers. Your list warrants some testing. Kaya, Orzhov Usurper has never been a bad draw for me. Because she helps stablize against creature attacks gaining us life and forcing a response from the enemy. Kaya also removes recurring threats like GutterBones, Arclight Phoenix, and anything Find // Finality may want.
One thing about Kaya is that she interferes with The Eldest Reborn
Hello Everyone,
For the first FNM of RNA, I brought the list in the first post to my LGS. And it is an expen$ive deck. With only four rounds, the turn out was smaller than usual because of SCG Indy.
Unfortunately I went 0-2 and threw in the towel. Losing to Naya RGW Big Dinosaurs and Rakdos Midrange. There were however mulligan issues in both matches.
Perhaps Orzhov Control is really only good at beating Gruul Aggro. Or maybe I am looking at the construction of the deck incorrectly. But it seems the concept of Orzhov control is a failed experiment. Sorry folks
Any comments and criticism are welcome
Thanks for the support.
I don't think it's failed at all. Chalk it up to variance. Midrange is usually a pretty good matchup too.
I really like the idea of chalking the board up with immortal sun and dawn of hope against control, too. Haven't looked into the thread in a few days and missed it. I like that touch.
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Used to be on here as Draconek, since the Twitch takeover...who knows...
MTGO: Draconek
Standard: URW Control UB Control
Modern: BRG Living End GR Aggro GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
The concept of B Orzhov Control W [Black/White] is designed around Kaya's Wrath
The restrictive mana cost of Kaya's Wrath and simplicity of two tone mana offers a straight forward painless land base.
BW otpions include premium removal. A tap-out style as an alternative from draw-go blue based counter spell control. Strong against a creature heavy environment. Shifts into an offense based strategy post board against blue based control. Freedom to play more liberally on YOUR turn.
Here is my current working and testing list:
4x Treasure Map
4x Seal Away
2x Cast Down
2x Moment of Craving
4x Mortify
4x Kaya's Wrath
4x Vraska's Contempt
3x The Eldest Reborn
4x Karn, Scion of Urza
Creatures
3x Angel of Grace
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
Land
1x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Detection Tower
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
7x Plains
7x Swamp
The Cards of Orzhov Control:
Mortify: All purpose killer that doubles as premium answer to Rhythm of the Wild, Wilderness Reclamation and Search for Azcanta.
Kaya's Wrath: The best argument to go straight BW in a simple to cast turn four destroy all creatures nuclear blast.
Kaya, Orzhov Usurper Stablizes against creature attacks gaining us life and forcing a response from the enemy. Kaya also removes recurring threats from the graveyard like GutterBones, Arclight Phoenix, and anything Find // Finality may want.
However, Kaya interferes with The Eldest Reborn. So you will most likely not want both in your strategy.
The Eldest Reborn: Functionally a planeswalker. Removing enemy combatants. Hand disruption. Returns combatants to our side of the fight.
Karn, Scion of Urza: A turn four planeswlaker with high starting loyalty that helps find cards. And can immediately put creatures in battle to attack or defend.
Treasure Map: without blue mana, this artifact provides the draw and filtering. Doubles as synergy with Karn.
Angel of Grace Supreme finisher. Turns the tide quickly. Grace does not have to be flashed in only when you are facing lethal. An EOT Grace followed by Dawnbringer Angel is such a big swing that it may even be worth playing second Lyra main deck.
Detection Tower: Shrinks those hexproof green monsters. And renders dive down inept.
The Sidboard of Orzhov Control
The strategy shifts into offense against blue based control opponents with the following from the sideboard
Other aggressive options can include Adanto Vanguard and History of Benalia
Note: All online testing performed on XMage best of 3
C Long Live Eldrazi C
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Angel of Grace
Spells (32):
1 Dawn of Hope
3 Seal Away
2 Ixalan's Binding
3 Settle the Wreckage
1 Cleansing Nova
2 Cast Down
2 Moment of Craving
2 Golden Demise
3 Vraska's Contempt
2 Mortify
1 Kaya's Wrath
4 Treasure Map
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 The Eldest Reborn
9 Plains
8 Swamp
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
1 Dawn of Hope
1 Seal Away
2 Citywide Bust
2 Ixalan's Binding
1 Cleansing Nova
2 Invoke the Divine
4 Duress
2 Kitesail Freebooter
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Big question for you; why so few Kaya's Wrath?
Also what have been some our your difficult matches? Considering Bof1 however.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
It's atrocious. If you're going to be taking it to an FNM or anything Bo3, that's what you'll be using the sideboard for. I'd say it's a pure meta call. I don't have much problem with burn though, they usually aren't fast enough to kill me before I can get a Lyra on board. Even as a 2 of, I've been fairly consistent on pulling it out.
On Arena I'm getting about 80% RDW or w/x aggro. I'm currently gold rank 1 with a fairly decent MMR I'm guessing because it's rare that I see anything that isn't tier. The amount of aggro is the reason I'm playing this deck ATM. I sometimes switch it up to Gruul aggro just because it actually has game against control and can go over RDW (I'm using the explore package) but I'm really enjoying Orzhov moreso. I've tried converting it to Esper and it actually felt like it diluted it a bit and made the deck weaker versus aggro for a more balanced game against control. Not sure it's worth it.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Over in the UBx Control thread, someone mentioned Kaya, Orzhov Usurper and Consecrate // Consume. After testing against mono red aggro and mono white aggro, I can confirm these cards help you stablize your life total.
It would be nice to have both Kaya and Karn in the setup. But Im not sure how to fit both.
Current testing list:
4x Treasure Map
4x Seal Away
2x Cast Down
2x Moment of Craving
4x Mortify
4x Kaya's Wrath
4x Vraska's Contempt
3x Consecrate // Consume
3x Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
Creatures
3x Angel of Grace
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
Land
1x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Detection Tower
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
7x Plains
7x Swamp
C Long Live Eldrazi C
The concept of BW control is battle hardened against even the toughest Gruul attack. Mortify and the second half of Consecrate // Consume are critical weapons. There is no fear of Carnage Tyrant
The difficult matches have been against Big Mana RUG Temur.
While keeping games close against highly aggressive dekcs.
4x Treasure Map
4x Seal Away
2x Cast Down
2x Moment of Craving
4x Mortify
4x Kaya's Wrath
3x Vraska's Contempt
2x Consecrate // Consume
2x Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
3x Karn, Scion of urza
Creatures 5
3x Angel of Grace
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
Land 25
1x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Detection Tower
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
7x Plains
7x Swamp
C Long Live Eldrazi C
After playing it heavily for another few days, I'm deeply considering removing the golden demise and settle the wreckage and adding more Kaya's Wrath, possibly another dawn of hope (definitely not more than 2) and going up to 4 Vraska's and 3-4 Mortify. I somewhat wouldn't mind adding something to make it more sturdy against control, but with me only going up against them a small amount, it's almost worth taking those losses game 1.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Consume has been a blessing in the Red Burn contest. On paper, four mana to remove a 3 power or even a 2 power creature is technically mana negative. However destroying an attacker and gaining the life really makes up for it. It feels like the deck wants three Consecrate // Consume. Combine this with Kaya, Orzhov Usurper and we can really slow down Red Burn. It's possible that I need more play against mono red. But my experience has been positive thus far. The toughest aggro I have faced has been White Weenie and Rakdos Attack. Both were loses.
Kaya's Wrath is the build around card in this control shell. Can you share why you believe there should only be two and not four? And any other notes that you may have? Thanks!
C Long Live Eldrazi C
The no more than 2 of was dawn of hope, btw,not wrath
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Vintage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legacy
My win rate versus Golgari is decent. Carny T is fairly easy to deal with in these colors. My biggest fear is Vivian, and you really have to play around her. I'd say that my win rate is around 60%, which to me is worth running.
Selesnya Aggro I would say I've had a decent time against it although I have only played a few matches against it (not quite as common for me, I face mostly r/x). Try your best to save your settles for March.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Angel of Grace
Spells (32):
1 Dawn of Hope
2 Consecrate / Consume
3 Seal Away
2 Ixalan's Binding
3 Settle the Wreckage
1 Cleansing Nova
2 Moment of Craving
3 Vraska's Contempt
4 Mortify
2 Kaya's Wrath
4 Treasure Map
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 The Eldest Reborn
9 Plains
8 Swamp
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
2 Kitesail Freebooter
I made some slight adjustments to my list. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be alright. Removed the cast down's and the golden demise plus 1 Eldest Reborn and added an additional Kaya's Wrath (still need more but unsure what to cut), 2 Consume, and went up to 4 Mortify although I might drop back down to the cast down, I'll figure that much out after play testing.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
Vintage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legacy
When I play RDW I usually win with Frenzy since they need to use their more expensive permanent removal on stuff like Chainwhirler and Phoenix. This deck has access to Mortify which is cheaper, instant and solves a lot of the issues with Frenzy (You can't play too many cmc 4 Oblivion Ring effects against red since they're too slow in high multiples)
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I'm not a big fan of Lyra Dawnbringer and Angel of Grace tho... ...most decks run creature removal and you don't have discard or counterspells to protect them.
I think, I'd build something with Dawn of Hope as a Finisher, with 2 The Immortal Sun and 1 Ethereal Absolution as support. I think, this is neccessary because the decks I have seen look like they have to struggle with Esper or Dimir Control...
I played a similiar mono white control deck like this with Cleansing Nova instead of Kaya's Wrath and Seal Away instead of Mortify. Worked pretty good. With black it would look something like this:
3 Ixalan's Binding
3 The Eldest Reborn
4 Dawn of Hope
1 Ethereal Absolution
Land
4 Isolated Chapel
7 Plains
7 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
2 Orzhov Guildgate
3 Treasure Map
2 The Immortal Sun
3 Fountain of Renewal
Instant
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Moment of Craving
4 Revitalize
4 Mortify
2 Consecrate // Consume
3 Kaya's Wrath
I was wondering, how good is Kaya, Orzhov Usurper at the moment?
Thank you for you thoughtful and unique design on Orzhov Control. Your multitude of enchantments weaken the effect of opposing Mortify answers. Your list warrants some testing.
Kaya, Orzhov Usurper has never been a bad draw for me. Because she helps stablize against creature attacks gaining us life and forcing a response from the enemy. Kaya also removes recurring threats like GutterBones, Arclight Phoenix, and anything Find // Finality may want.
One thing about Kaya is that she interferes with The Eldest Reborn
C Long Live Eldrazi C
For the first FNM of RNA, I brought the list in the first post to my LGS. And it is an expen$ive deck. With only four rounds, the turn out was smaller than usual because of SCG Indy.
Unfortunately I went 0-2 and threw in the towel. Losing to Naya RGW Big Dinosaurs and Rakdos Midrange. There were however mulligan issues in both matches.
Perhaps Orzhov Control is really only good at beating Gruul Aggro. Or maybe I am looking at the construction of the deck incorrectly. But it seems the concept of Orzhov control is a failed experiment. Sorry folks
Any comments and criticism are welcome
Thanks for the support.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I really like the idea of chalking the board up with immortal sun and dawn of hope against control, too. Haven't looked into the thread in a few days and missed it. I like that touch.
MTGO: Draconek
Standard:
URW Control
UB Control
Modern:
BRG Living End
GR Aggro
GW Value
Legacy:
Currently not playing
PS: I was play testing this deck on tapped out. It's REALLY fun. I just need to figure what to put as the last three side board cards for my meta.
Vintage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legacy
C Long Live Eldrazi C