Here is a first version of Sultai Midrange that I've put together for the new standard. It seems that G/B midrange may be very popular due to Assassin's Trophy, but I want to play Sultai to have access to counterspells (mostly in the sideboard), and potentially some U/B creatures. My main concern is whether or not the manabase can support a deck like this without having access to Breeding Pool yet. It is important to have untapped green mana on turn 1, but you also need to have a sufficient number of blue sources.
There are a lot of options in the 3-drop slot. Those include cards like: Jadelight Ranger, Thrashing Brontodon, Midnight Reaper, Thief of Sanity, Ochran Assassin, and Deathgorge Scavenger. I think that main deck Deathgorge Scavenger may be very good in the new standard, due to the high number of graveyard themed cards that are being introduced. I want to try out Thief of Sanity, but it is another blue card that may have to wait for Breeding Pool before it can reliably be cast on turn 3.
I also want to try out some number of Chamber Sentry. It seems like it has potential in a 3 colour deck. With treasure tokens, it is even possible to use the recursion ability later in the game.
I am not sure whether this should be a Llanowar Elves deck or not, since it is less like the existing mono-G stompy decks. An alternative could be to play Adventurous Impulse in the 1-drop slot. This would help more with colour fixing.
As for the 3 copies of Treasure Map, it is one of my pet cards and I try to put it in almost any standard deck I make. I do think it works well in a midrange deck like this, though.
What are you thoughts on Sultai Midrange for GRN standard?
I suspect you won't want to be running Llanowar elves in any 3-color deck except Abzan (Junk/BWG) because that gives you 8 shocks that make green. Sultai is not gonna have the 14 turn1 untapped green sources you really need to leverage all the power from Elves.
White would give you some cool new midrange options at the (already crowded) 3cmc slot, like Knight of Autumn, plus some other removal. GB midrange looks to have many tools even without splashing, though.
I suspect you won't want to be running Llanowar elves in any 3-color deck except Abzan (Junk/BWG) because that gives you 8 shocks that make green. Sultai is not gonna have the 14 turn1 untapped green sources you really need to leverage all the power from Elves.
White would give you some cool new midrange options at the (already crowded) 3cmc slot, like Knight of Autumn, plus some other removal. GB midrange looks to have many tools even without splashing, though.
It can be ran, just don't run Jadelight Ranger Or avoid double green/double black/double blue because that will hose you pretty badly when it comes to mana. Shock lands are a given in a 3 color deck. It can be done in sultai, you just can't expect to get away with running double green especially a double green coming down at T2 or T3 especially when your running things like Ravenous Chupacabra and Doom Whisperer
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
The more I brew, the better Thorn Lieutenant looks - you get so much value against an Assassin's Trophy, and decks running red removal also look like they're going to be running 1-toughness attackers that turn TL into a 2-for-1. I'm just not sure it's at home in a deck that relies on 6-drops. Are you worried about larger aggro/midrange decks like Stompy just ignoring him and attacking through?
What's Deathgorge Scavenger for? Are you just running it as a 4/3 attacker, or do you have a specific Graveyard interaction in mind to try to hate?
You don't have a sideboard up, but I think Plaguecrafter is going to be a must-have somewhere in the 75, due to 3 undercostedgreenHexproof fatties around, especially since he's still a live 1-for-1 against 'walkers and empty boards.
As much as Thief of Sanity is a sweet card, he's just going to die almost every time before you get to use him as he's just that big of a threat. I may be wrong though.
SO, now that we have the full spoiler. after some testing this is the Sultai deck i plan to play for now. seems okay, hard to say till we get an idea of the meta.
but any suggestions or ideas?
do you mind explaining why? all the discard is to hopefully setup a good unmoored ego, and wildgrowth is just a way to gain a little life and pump with the explore creatures. i dont see how they work against each other at all...
A video battle between Sultai and Grixis Midrange is here (Muldrotha!) including decklists.
Another proposed Sultai list is here (District Guide!).
i like brad nelsons deck,very similiar to mine, i think i focued more on discard then him. but good to know im on a similiar thinking path as brad nelson. ima have to test his and see if there is anything i want to switch from my list now.
do you mind explaining why? all the discard is to hopefully setup a good unmoored ego, and wildgrowth is just a way to gain a little life and pump with the explore creatures. i dont see how they work against each other at all...
I don't think they work against each other, but WGW is just a random 1/3 that might occasionally be an undercosted 2/4 - it just doesn't do much. I think there are better things you could get out of early drops, even if it's just removal or hand manipulation
Ego looks like a good sideboard card for when there's a specific card you just can't beat, but Jester's Cap effects have a history of being really weak due to negative tempo and card disadvantage, unless you're specifically playing against a 1-Win Condition control deck or combo deck. Spending a turn and a card to keep the other guy from playing a Steel Leaf Champion or Goblin Chainwhirler doesn't get you anywhere if he just plays a Thrashing Brontodon or Legion Warboss instead and keeps attacking
do you mind explaining why? all the discard is to hopefully setup a good unmoored ego, and wildgrowth is just a way to gain a little life and pump with the explore creatures. i dont see how they work against each other at all...
I don't think they work against each other, but WGW is just a random 1/3 that might occasionally be an undercosted 2/4 - it just doesn't do much. I think there are better things you could get out of early drops, even if it's just removal or hand manipulation
Ego looks like a good sideboard card for when there's a specific card you just can't beat, but Jester's Cap effects have a history of being really weak due to negative tempo and card disadvantage, unless you're specifically playing against a 1-Win Condition control deck or combo deck. Spending a turn and a card to keep the other guy from playing a Steel Leaf Champion or Goblin Chainwhirler doesn't get you anywhere if he just plays a Thrashing Brontodon or Legion Warboss instead and keeps attacking
i see, idk if i agree on the WGW. as some games he turns out to be the MVP. also with the life lost i spend usually to keep the lich alive i can get back with WGW and vraskas. so im not going to say you are wrong. but with my testing idk if i can agree till some further testing.
EGO i can agree "maybe" it would be better as a sideboard card. but i can say the meta in my area usually runs alot of control and i can see alot of teferi being played. doesnt mean it should be main boarded. but my problem is what else should i run in its place? i considered card draw and tested like opt and discovery. but they felt like they werent needed.i also considered more creatures in its place, but with this deck i couldnt really find anything worth running over it. i might start testing ravenous chupabra from brad nelsons sultai list he ran which is very similiar to mine, but we will see. what would you run? the best answer will probably require just more testing.
Check this Sultai midrange deck Brad Nelson is testing in this video. Looks VERY strong to me, though I'd make some changes here and there like adding 2 Doom Whisperer as finishers, some more counter magic in the sideboard and some sort of sweeper against token and go wide decks that I'm sure will be out in force.
I was going to go Mono green stompy in week 1, but I think I'd rather go Sultai to be honest. I think it's going to be very strong in the early days of the new format because it's got access to so much good removal, counter magic, big creatures and graveyard interactions with Muldrotha and surveil mechanics.
Doom Whisperer and Muldrotha are going to be sick together
It looks like he's testing a lot of the graveyard recursion and probably some of the mana fixing with district guide.
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3x Deathgorge Scavenger
4x Llanowar Elves
2x Merfolk Branchwalker
2x Midnight Reaper
2x Thief of Sanity
4x Thorn Lieutenant
2x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Doom Whisperer
1x Drowned Catacomb
6x Forest
2x Hinterland Harbor
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Watery Grave
4x Woodland Cemetery
3x Assassin's Trophy
2x Cast Down
1x Syncopate
1x status // statue
3x Vraska's Contempt
Planeswalker (3)
1x Vivien Reid
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
3x Treasure Map
Here is a first version of Sultai Midrange that I've put together for the new standard. It seems that G/B midrange may be very popular due to Assassin's Trophy, but I want to play Sultai to have access to counterspells (mostly in the sideboard), and potentially some U/B creatures. My main concern is whether or not the manabase can support a deck like this without having access to Breeding Pool yet. It is important to have untapped green mana on turn 1, but you also need to have a sufficient number of blue sources.
There are a lot of options in the 3-drop slot. Those include cards like: Jadelight Ranger, Thrashing Brontodon, Midnight Reaper, Thief of Sanity, Ochran Assassin, and Deathgorge Scavenger. I think that main deck Deathgorge Scavenger may be very good in the new standard, due to the high number of graveyard themed cards that are being introduced. I want to try out Thief of Sanity, but it is another blue card that may have to wait for Breeding Pool before it can reliably be cast on turn 3.
I also want to try out some number of Chamber Sentry. It seems like it has potential in a 3 colour deck. With treasure tokens, it is even possible to use the recursion ability later in the game.
I am not sure whether this should be a Llanowar Elves deck or not, since it is less like the existing mono-G stompy decks. An alternative could be to play Adventurous Impulse in the 1-drop slot. This would help more with colour fixing.
Some other cards to consider are: Kraul Harpooner, Pelt Collector, Nullhide Ferox, Etrata, the Silencer, Thought Erasure, Kitesail Freebooter, Underrealm Lich, and Hostage Taker.
As for the 3 copies of Treasure Map, it is one of my pet cards and I try to put it in almost any standard deck I make. I do think it works well in a midrange deck like this, though.
What are you thoughts on Sultai Midrange for GRN standard?
4x Llanowar Elves
2x Merfolk Branchwalker
4x Thorn Lieutenant
3x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Ravenous Chupacabra
3x Doom Whisperer
1x Carnage Tyrant
2x Assassin's Trophy
2x Cast Down
3x Vraska's Contempt
1x Status//Statue
Planeswalker (3)
1x Vivien Reid
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
8x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb
7x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Sorcery (2)
2x Adventurous Impulse
Artifact (3)
3x Treasure Map
4 llanowar elves
4 glowspore shaman
4 jadelight ranger
4 golgari raiders
4 rhizome lurcher
4 underrealm lich
4 assassin's trophy
4 vraska's contempt
White would give you some cool new midrange options at the (already crowded) 3cmc slot, like Knight of Autumn, plus some other removal. GB midrange looks to have many tools even without splashing, though.
It can be ran, just don't run Jadelight Ranger Or avoid double green/double black/double blue because that will hose you pretty badly when it comes to mana. Shock lands are a given in a 3 color deck. It can be done in sultai, you just can't expect to get away with running double green especially a double green coming down at T2 or T3 especially when your running things like Ravenous Chupacabra and Doom Whisperer
-Stay Frosty
The more I brew, the better Thorn Lieutenant looks - you get so much value against an Assassin's Trophy, and decks running red removal also look like they're going to be running 1-toughness attackers that turn TL into a 2-for-1. I'm just not sure it's at home in a deck that relies on 6-drops. Are you worried about larger aggro/midrange decks like Stompy just ignoring him and attacking through?
What's Deathgorge Scavenger for? Are you just running it as a 4/3 attacker, or do you have a specific Graveyard interaction in mind to try to hate?
Why Status // Statue before the 4th of either Vraska's Contempt or Assassin's Trophy? Seems like you'd be better off maxing out on Trophies before going into either of the more expensive cards.
You don't have a sideboard up, but I think Plaguecrafter is going to be a must-have somewhere in the 75, due to 3 undercosted green Hexproof fatties around, especially since he's still a live 1-for-1 against 'walkers and empty boards.
but any suggestions or ideas?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1340210#paper
Another proposed Sultai list is here (District Guide!).
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
do you mind explaining why? all the discard is to hopefully setup a good unmoored ego, and wildgrowth is just a way to gain a little life and pump with the explore creatures. i dont see how they work against each other at all...
i like brad nelsons deck,very similiar to mine, i think i focued more on discard then him. but good to know im on a similiar thinking path as brad nelson. ima have to test his and see if there is anything i want to switch from my list now.
I don't think they work against each other, but WGW is just a random 1/3 that might occasionally be an undercosted 2/4 - it just doesn't do much. I think there are better things you could get out of early drops, even if it's just removal or hand manipulation
Ego looks like a good sideboard card for when there's a specific card you just can't beat, but Jester's Cap effects have a history of being really weak due to negative tempo and card disadvantage, unless you're specifically playing against a 1-Win Condition control deck or combo deck. Spending a turn and a card to keep the other guy from playing a Steel Leaf Champion or Goblin Chainwhirler doesn't get you anywhere if he just plays a Thrashing Brontodon or Legion Warboss instead and keeps attacking
i see, idk if i agree on the WGW. as some games he turns out to be the MVP. also with the life lost i spend usually to keep the lich alive i can get back with WGW and vraskas. so im not going to say you are wrong. but with my testing idk if i can agree till some further testing.
EGO i can agree "maybe" it would be better as a sideboard card. but i can say the meta in my area usually runs alot of control and i can see alot of teferi being played. doesnt mean it should be main boarded. but my problem is what else should i run in its place? i considered card draw and tested like opt and discovery. but they felt like they werent needed.i also considered more creatures in its place, but with this deck i couldnt really find anything worth running over it. i might start testing ravenous chupabra from brad nelsons sultai list he ran which is very similiar to mine, but we will see. what would you run? the best answer will probably require just more testing.
https://youtu.be/l0I3ki1t-Ew
I was going to go Mono green stompy in week 1, but I think I'd rather go Sultai to be honest. I think it's going to be very strong in the early days of the new format because it's got access to so much good removal, counter magic, big creatures and graveyard interactions with Muldrotha and surveil mechanics.
Doom Whisperer and Muldrotha are going to be sick together
I'm pretty damn hype for sultai!
The below is what I will start testing with. It's more a testbed to get a sense of the cards than a finished deck, hence all the 1-ofs.
4 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Lazav, the Multifarious
1 Hostage Taker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
2 District Guide
2 Thief of Sanity
1 Isareth the Awakener
4 Glowspore Shaman
1 Underrealm Lich
1 Demonlord Belzenlok
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Demon of Catastrophes
2 Doom Whisperer
Enchantment
1 The Eldest Reborn
1 Dead Weight
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
Instant
3 Vraska's Contempt
1 Cast Down
1 Assassin's Trophy
Sorcery
2 Ritual of Soot
Planeswalker
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 The Eldest Reborn
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Not sure of what your goal is here?
-Stay Frosty