I admire your bravery. I've wanted to play all the cool pirates, but choosing between so many that I wanted to play and coming up with a good manabase just seemed like more work than I wanted to take on yet. I did Rakdos because I figured Grixis had to be slower, which could be critical for an aggro deck.
To be honest, most competitive decks won't allow the conditions for stealing a creature with the Admiral. I still want to do it at FNM levels of competition because fun!
There are so many good pirates that choosing between them is hard, as I said above. But I'm surprised not to see Kari-Zev or the Poisoner in the main and Dire Fleet Daredevil seems like a shoo-in for the sideboard. One With the Wind seems like a high risk/high reward strategy that could increase inconsistency, but I don't really know how it has worked for you.
To really help you with the actual contents of the deck, I want to know more about how the deck has worked for you. When it works well, what has worked and what were you playing against? When it doesn't work as well, what cards did you draw and what were you playing against?
I'll try to help on the manabase from theorycraft because it looks like that could produce some inconsistency, but bear in mind that I haven't been playing a Grixis deck and I've only played RB Pirates, so many grains of salt.
My bible for manabases is this article, which I've nearly memorized the key parts of. If you haven't already read it, you can blow off the theorycraft and skip to the tables.
For Daring Buccaneer and Siren Stormtamer on T1 you would want 14 untapped R and U respectively. For Dreamcaller you would want 18 U on T4. For Freebooter and others you would want 13 B on T2. Those are the mana requirements I see. You currently have T1 R = 8, T1 U = 11, T4 U = 16, T2 B = 14. But only 7 lands that enable Catacomb to come into play untapped and 3 that allow Summit likewise. Another problem is that we have only 9 lands that allow us to cast Lightning Strike. Can we get closer? How about:
+1 Unclaimed Territory
-1 Swamp
Okay, I thought I was just talking manabase, but the fixing for friendly colors is much better than unfriendly colors for now. That gives us incentives to be base B and splash R. So I am recommending -4 Daring Buccaneer and +4 Grasping Scoundrel. Yeah, I know, it's a worse card, but I think having it on time is more important than the difference.
Now our requirements are T1 B = 14, T1 U = 14, T4 U = 18, T4 R = 11
Uh, yeah. Now I remember why I didn't want to tackle the Grixis manabase. Honestly, I want to skip T1 except for straightening out the mana and build around
4 Fetid Pools, 4 Summit, 4 Catacomb, 4 Canyon Slough, 4 Unclaimed Territory. If the remaining 3 lands are Islands then we are still worse off for casting Dreamcaller than when we started. That gives 11 lands that allow untapped Catacomb and 8 that allow untapped Summit. But we have excess B sources, so what about:
I think this would be more consistent, but I don't know if it seems better to you. Either way, I don't see us hitting our one drops consistently on turn 1. Is it worth running the 1 drops at all? Maybe, in that we can double-spell on T3-4.
Further, I don't believe in Dreamcaller Siren and Lightning Strike together in this deck. You originally only had 9 lands that would cast Strike and my proposal only has 10.
First, i'n so grateful too see a nice response to new player with nice tips (i love to learn about mana base). Ill try to cover all i can do to response you.
To be honest, most competitive decks won't allow the conditions for stealing a creature with the Admiral. I still want to do it at FNM levels of competition because fun!
I'n new on std, and i want to stay at FNM/SHOWDOWN level for while, i need to learn more and more. On Admiral, i guess i choose it more for a finisher buffing all than a stealler.
There are so many good pirates that choosing between them is hard, as I said above. But I'm surprised not to see Kari-Zev or the Poisoner in the main and Dire Fleet Daredevil seems like a shoo-in for the sideboard. One With the Wind seems like a high risk/high reward strategy that could increase inconsistency, but I don't really know how it has worked for you.
To start explain some "omit" creatures, how i start with an UB focus no Fly creatures, this stay on my mind and o forget to see all creatures i can put in the deck, now i want consistence with all kind of evasive creatures. This is why i seeking for tips, i guess i'n with the old vicious on cheap fly creatures and need to open my options. And its so fun this "challenge". With only UB i feel it was missing something, when i add R i feel i got more power to deal with creatures and finish games with burn. I agree with One With the Wind, in this slot, i was using Curious obsession, (one wiht wind race, Curious Advantage) than i try wind for this purpose, but its like you sad, high risk, its better to put more creatures here ?! idk. Just one time, when i put Wind on Fleet Captain e atack 3-4 times, make it worth. One more thing, i choose One with wind to put fly on Dire Fleet Neckbreaker, it make we finish the game more fast.
To really help you with the actual contents of the deck, I want to know more about how the deck has worked for you. When it works well, what has worked and what were you playing against? When it doesn't work as well, what cards did you draw and what were you playing against?
ON this topic: this exactly buid, i start to test yesterday and againts an control deck of friend mine. This show off all-or-nothing. Sometimes explode on start, sometimes i do nothing, and if i lose 1-2 creatures, i cant do nothing too.
First test was: On Daring Buccaneer slot, i run Shock, but i trade to test with more creature density.
On Fathom Fleet Captain i was with Siren Reaver, but i trade cause Siren have no ability.
I try removing counters to play again with Favorable Winds, but it didnt work, so fragile and accept all swipers is nothing good.
Sometimes i draw all spells and no creatures and i guess i dont have low creature counter. I liked this playstile with grixis, the aggressiveness of the RED and the the Control/Aggro UB. A explosive start then then manage the game with Lookout's Dispersal and Dreamcaller Siren (Dreamcaller is always good in every game - below you say about this and Strike together, but I did not have any problems in this, stike kill key creatures of most meta decks). Daring Buccaneer have helped and helps Fathom Fleet Captain able to make Tokens. One With the Wind idk i dont draw it so much, but Curious helped more i guess (But in this slot we can have Chart a Course seens a low risk ?!)
My draws they were not always consitent.
I read about the mana and i love it, but maybe before, maybe is better we choose the creatures can enter and out right ?!
If something more specific was missing, ask and i try to explain better
Have you considered going UB and then lightly splashing red for Beckett Brass? I think that would be easier on the mana base and probably a much more stable deck overall.
Have you considered going UB and then lightly splashing red for Beckett Brass? I think that would be easier on the mana base and probably a much more stable deck overall.
Did you say to use only Beckett with red? we lose much power only with it, Neckbreaker is a nice "Finisher"
I didn't clearly understand what worked best from your description, so I will just throw out my moderately undefined thoughts. For consistency, I think the manabase above could be better. I want to cut the Dreamcaller because it seems hard on the manabase and I want to lower the curve so we can get threats down and sit on Dispersal.
@ghgiunco - You have played this deck more than I. As such, you are the expert. I am just making suggestions. One thing that I observed was that with your manabase, there would be a significant percentage of the time that you wouldn't be able to cast Dreamcaller on T4, Buccaneer on T1, Lightning Strike before T6 and many of your lands would come into play tapped.
You asked for help. All I have to offer is ignorant suggestions for your consideration. I proposed a manabase for your consideration and a set of spells that I thought it would consistently cast. Run as many Dreamcallers as you want, but please be aware of how often you can't cast certain spells on time. The new creatures that I suggested (Ruin Raider, Poisoner, Kari-Zev) might also be worth considering.
Hostage Taker is awesome in general, but conditional (not every deck has creatures or artifacts), takes 4 mana and needs to be protected. I would be more inclined to put it in the sideboard than the main deck for curve reasons.
I dont see this way. I'n new in std, i'n learning about speed and good card for the format. I play several games with this build, and like i sad before, or i had explosive good games or i dont draw nothing good or in time. That's why I decided to discuss with other, sometimes we cling to some cards and cant see it not too good
This way we can trade experiencia, all can learn with other =). You have experience with RB (all-in) and i like to play with some security, lets make it! hahaha
I had problens in early with mana sometimes but with Dreamcaller no. He give us much time. But i like the other tips, i was playing with the build you posted. (I played with Shock over Buccaneer. Kari Zev was much interesting creature, in some point i looked for Storm Fleet Sprinter, hast and cant be blocked look nice for the race and can fit in tip low curve tip that you say, i liked this. Ruin Raider was killed all time he came online haha. Fathom Fleet Captain worked well today.
I took into consideration all you sad. Sometimes one tip can awake other. This Brainstorm is so nice. Nothing is ignorant, we are free to give every help you can, this can help more than you think.
I've found the following variant. That's actually not mine. I just tried to play it. So I totally lost to 2 Tokens, 1 Jeskai Approach and 1 RG Monsters
No any Pirates deck are T1 competetive now. Maybe BR variant has a little more chance?
Looking back the 3-1 this week, i win against a Grixis Control, UW gifts pharaoh and a mono red (i lose to an approach that i usually dont lose (pirate are fast). I dont played with any BR variant, i started to play with UB and i liked to have U cause the protection. its so frustrating to make a good board and a Fumigate ruin it.
Against little creature deck, Fiery Cannonade in side is a house, it helps alot, even against dino decks was uselful: attacked with Warkite Marauder turn 4/5 in 0/1, cast a Cannonade removed 3 big threats with 1 spell.
This is some points why i liked the Grixis build and i want to make it good :). The build above worked weel, waiting for the next FNM or showdown to see it again.
I've found the following variant. That's actually not mine. I just tried to play it. So I totally lost to 2 Tokens, 1 Jeskai Approach and 1 RG Monsters
No any Pirates deck are T1 competetive now. Maybe BR variant has a little more chance?
...]
When I look through the latest MTGO 5-0s, I don't see pirates. So yes, we are not T1.
But ... that list. I don't get it. It looks like a collection of good pirates, but not a deck. I can't figure out the game plan. There are definitely RB lists that can 3-1 at FNM and I think Grixis can probably do as well, but I don't like that one. For example, the curve seems high for Ruin Raider. And Siren Stormtamer is the only way you would be able to make a token with Fathom Fleet Captain on T3. I don't see a consistent approach.
I started to play standard games at Ixalan. The deck i liked to play was Fly pirates (UB) with a full set of Favorable Winds.
Then with RIX update i I decided to make it grixis and removed Favorable Winds for more creatures.
Sometimes it works well, sometimes its like miss something.
Someone have some tips on this list to improve or play better? I would be very grateful!
The list:
1x Admiral Beckett Brass
4x Daring Buccaneer
3x Dire Fleet Neckbreaker
3x Dreamcaller Siren
3x Fathom Fleet Captain
4x Kitesail Freebooter
4x Siren Stormtamer
4x Warkite Marauder
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Fetid Pools
4x Island
1x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Swamp
3x Unclaimed Territory
4x Lightning Strike
4x Lookout's Dispersal
Enchantment (3)
3x One With the Wind
To be honest, most competitive decks won't allow the conditions for stealing a creature with the Admiral. I still want to do it at FNM levels of competition because fun!
There are so many good pirates that choosing between them is hard, as I said above. But I'm surprised not to see Kari-Zev or the Poisoner in the main and Dire Fleet Daredevil seems like a shoo-in for the sideboard. One With the Wind seems like a high risk/high reward strategy that could increase inconsistency, but I don't really know how it has worked for you.
To really help you with the actual contents of the deck, I want to know more about how the deck has worked for you. When it works well, what has worked and what were you playing against? When it doesn't work as well, what cards did you draw and what were you playing against?
I'll try to help on the manabase from theorycraft because it looks like that could produce some inconsistency, but bear in mind that I haven't been playing a Grixis deck and I've only played RB Pirates, so many grains of salt.
My bible for manabases is this article, which I've nearly memorized the key parts of. If you haven't already read it, you can blow off the theorycraft and skip to the tables.
For Daring Buccaneer and Siren Stormtamer on T1 you would want 14 untapped R and U respectively. For Dreamcaller you would want 18 U on T4. For Freebooter and others you would want 13 B on T2. Those are the mana requirements I see. You currently have T1 R = 8, T1 U = 11, T4 U = 16, T2 B = 14. But only 7 lands that enable Catacomb to come into play untapped and 3 that allow Summit likewise. Another problem is that we have only 9 lands that allow us to cast Lightning Strike. Can we get closer? How about:
- +1 Unclaimed Territory
- -1 Swamp
Okay, I thought I was just talking manabase, but the fixing for friendly colors is much better than unfriendly colors for now. That gives us incentives to be base B and splash R. So I am recommending -4 Daring Buccaneer and +4 Grasping Scoundrel. Yeah, I know, it's a worse card, but I think having it on time is more important than the difference.Now our requirements are T1 B = 14, T1 U = 14, T4 U = 18, T4 R = 11
Uh, yeah. Now I remember why I didn't want to tackle the Grixis manabase. Honestly, I want to skip T1 except for straightening out the mana and build around
4 Fetid Pools, 4 Summit, 4 Catacomb, 4 Canyon Slough, 4 Unclaimed Territory. If the remaining 3 lands are Islands then we are still worse off for casting Dreamcaller than when we started. That gives 11 lands that allow untapped Catacomb and 8 that allow untapped Summit. But we have excess B sources, so what about:
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Canyon Slough
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Spirebluff Canal
1 Island
I think this would be more consistent, but I don't know if it seems better to you. Either way, I don't see us hitting our one drops consistently on turn 1. Is it worth running the 1 drops at all? Maybe, in that we can double-spell on T3-4.
Further, I don't believe in Dreamcaller Siren and Lightning Strike together in this deck. You originally only had 9 lands that would cast Strike and my proposal only has 10.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
First, i'n so grateful too see a nice response to new player with nice tips (i love to learn about mana base). Ill try to cover all i can do to response you.
I'n new on std, and i want to stay at FNM/SHOWDOWN level for while, i need to learn more and more. On Admiral, i guess i choose it more for a finisher buffing all than a stealler.
To start explain some "omit" creatures, how i start with an UB focus no Fly creatures, this stay on my mind and o forget to see all creatures i can put in the deck, now i want consistence with all kind of evasive creatures. This is why i seeking for tips, i guess i'n with the old vicious on cheap fly creatures and need to open my options. And its so fun this "challenge". With only UB i feel it was missing something, when i add R i feel i got more power to deal with creatures and finish games with burn. I agree with One With the Wind, in this slot, i was using Curious obsession, (one wiht wind race, Curious Advantage) than i try wind for this purpose, but its like you sad, high risk, its better to put more creatures here ?! idk. Just one time, when i put Wind on Fleet Captain e atack 3-4 times, make it worth. One more thing, i choose One with wind to put fly on Dire Fleet Neckbreaker, it make we finish the game more fast.
ON this topic: this exactly buid, i start to test yesterday and againts an control deck of friend mine. This show off all-or-nothing. Sometimes explode on start, sometimes i do nothing, and if i lose 1-2 creatures, i cant do nothing too.
First test was: On Daring Buccaneer slot, i run Shock, but i trade to test with more creature density.
On Fathom Fleet Captain i was with Siren Reaver, but i trade cause Siren have no ability.
I try removing counters to play again with Favorable Winds, but it didnt work, so fragile and accept all swipers is nothing good.
Sometimes i draw all spells and no creatures and i guess i dont have low creature counter. I liked this playstile with grixis, the aggressiveness of the RED and the the Control/Aggro UB. A explosive start then then manage the game with Lookout's Dispersal and Dreamcaller Siren (Dreamcaller is always good in every game - below you say about this and Strike together, but I did not have any problems in this, stike kill key creatures of most meta decks).
Daring Buccaneer have helped and helps Fathom Fleet Captain able to make Tokens.
One With the Wind idk i dont draw it so much, but Curious helped more i guess (But in this slot we can have Chart a Course seens a low risk ?!)
My draws they were not always consitent.
I read about the mana and i love it, but maybe before, maybe is better we choose the creatures can enter and out right ?!
If something more specific was missing, ask and i try to explain better
Did you say to use only Beckett with red? we lose much power only with it, Neckbreaker is a nice "Finisher"
So here is my next thought:
1 Admiral Beckett Brass
2 Kari-Zev, Skyship Raider
4 Daring Buccaneer
2 Dire Fleet Poisoner
2 Ruin Raider
3 Dire Fleet Neckbreaker
3 Fathom Fleet Captain
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Warkite Marauder
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Fetid Pools
3 Canyon Slough
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Unclaimed Territory
Instant (8)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Lookout's Dispersal
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Daring Buccaneer when drop at 1 helps alot the race, but without evasion
Fathom Fleet Captain not 100% off time make tokens
One with the wind Work one time or other, guess dont be a worth slot
I try to play without Lookout's Dispersal but not worth.
If we plau with Fathom Fleet Captain, we can play with Shock over Daring Buccaneer? We can clear the way for him or Kari-Zev, Skyship Raider?, whit way we can skip T1 drop ...
I like Dreamcaller, if we down for 1-2 ?
i thinked about Ruin Raider but not tested it.
We can fit some Hostage Taker? she and Dive Down seens to be good together
You asked for help. All I have to offer is ignorant suggestions for your consideration. I proposed a manabase for your consideration and a set of spells that I thought it would consistently cast. Run as many Dreamcallers as you want, but please be aware of how often you can't cast certain spells on time. The new creatures that I suggested (Ruin Raider, Poisoner, Kari-Zev) might also be worth considering.
Hostage Taker is awesome in general, but conditional (not every deck has creatures or artifacts), takes 4 mana and needs to be protected. I would be more inclined to put it in the sideboard than the main deck for curve reasons.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I dont see this way. I'n new in std, i'n learning about speed and good card for the format. I play several games with this build, and like i sad before, or i had explosive good games or i dont draw nothing good or in time. That's why I decided to discuss with other, sometimes we cling to some cards and cant see it not too good
This way we can trade experiencia, all can learn with other =). You have experience with RB (all-in) and i like to play with some security, lets make it! hahaha
I had problens in early with mana sometimes but with Dreamcaller no. He give us much time. But i like the other tips, i was playing with the build you posted. (I played with Shock over Buccaneer. Kari Zev was much interesting creature, in some point i looked for Storm Fleet Sprinter, hast and cant be blocked look nice for the race and can fit in tip low curve tip that you say, i liked this. Ruin Raider was killed all time he came online haha.
Fathom Fleet Captain worked well today.
I took into consideration all you sad. Sometimes one tip can awake other. This Brainstorm is so nice. Nothing is ignorant, we are free to give every help you can, this can help more than you think.
3x Dire Fleet Neckbreaker
2x Dire Fleet Poisoner
3x Fathom Fleet Captain
3x Kitesail Freebooter
2x Ruin Raider
4x Siren Stormtamer
3x Storm Fleet Sprinter
4x Warkite Marauder
3x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
2x Fetid Pools
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
4x Unclaimed Territory
4x Lookout's Dispersal
4x Shock
Storm Fleet Sprinter give to deck a good speed. Worth Slot.
No any Pirates deck are T1 competetive now. Maybe BR variant has a little more chance?
2x Captain Lannery Storm
3x Fathom Fleet Captain
3x Hostage Taker
3x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3x Kitesail Freebooter
3x Ruin Raider
4x Siren Stormtamer
2x Abrade
2x Fatal Push
4x Lookout's Dispersal
1x Negate
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Chart a Course
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
5x Island
2x Mountain
4x Swamp
4x Unclaimed Territory
2x Dire Fleet Daredevil
3x Duress
2x Essence Scatter
2x Fiery Cannonade
2x Harsh Scrutiny
2x Lost Legacy
2x Spell Pierce
Looking back the 3-1 this week, i win against a Grixis Control, UW gifts pharaoh and a mono red (i lose to an approach that i usually dont lose (pirate are fast). I dont played with any BR variant, i started to play with UB and i liked to have U cause the protection. its so frustrating to make a good board and a Fumigate ruin it.
Siren Stormtamer, Lookout's Dispersal, Warkite Marauder are so good tools, the first too to protection, with Warkite Marauder we can just kill any creature with a simple Shock. Then B with extra protection with Kitesail Freebooter give information and hold an remove, agressive with Fathom Fleet Captain, that if he stays in game, he makes lots creature and leave you with counter on backup.
Against little creature deck, Fiery Cannonade in side is a house, it helps alot, even against dino decks was uselful: attacked with Warkite Marauder turn 4/5 in 0/1, cast a Cannonade removed 3 big threats with 1 spell.
This is some points why i liked the Grixis build and i want to make it good :). The build above worked weel, waiting for the next FNM or showdown to see it again.
But ... that list. I don't get it. It looks like a collection of good pirates, but not a deck. I can't figure out the game plan. There are definitely RB lists that can 3-1 at FNM and I think Grixis can probably do as well, but I don't like that one. For example, the curve seems high for Ruin Raider. And Siren Stormtamer is the only way you would be able to make a token with Fathom Fleet Captain on T3. I don't see a consistent approach.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Your deck shows a more stable gameplay, imho. Could you explain sideboard plan?
2 Aethersphere Harvester - Againts Monored is a house side. Lifelink put we in game again
1 Lost Legacy - Against approach decks
1 Deadeye Tracker - Against grave decks
1 Silent Gravestone - Against grave decks
3 Essence Scatter - Against big creatures deck
3 Fiery Cannonade - Against aggros
2 Hour of Glory - this should be Vraska's Contempt for real, but it expansive for me ate the moment, but it need to be Vraska's.
2 Kitesail Freebooter - before was Duress, but i put more agressive pirate in MB and this protective on SB
Need to find a home: 2 Dire Fleet Daredevil