Energy
-1 Liliana, Death's Majesty, -2 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Champion of Wits and -1 Field of Ruin
+1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Harsh Scrutiny, +1 Essence Scatter
I still have to do the Mardu Vehicles and Esper Gift matchups. Somehow, Sultai and Temur Energy ended up with the same SB plan. Is that a mistake? What would you do differently?
So after analyzing what the most important cards are in the meta at the moment (Hazoret the fervent, The Scarab God, Settle the Wreckage, Ixalan's Binding, Cast Out, Hostage Taker), I've decided to try splashing for green and replacing Liliana, Death's Majesty with Vraska, Relic Seeker. The primary reason is that Vraska does something very important for the deck that none of the other cards we have can do, and that is answer a resolved Cast out and Ixalan's Binding. She can also provide tokens much like Liliana, Death's Majesty, but those tokens are also superior since they have menace. 6 cmc is definitely more mana than 5 cmc and the land count may need some work, but I think it is worth it to try to fight back against white decks.
I may swap to 1x Lost Legacy and 1x Dispossess to hit both gift and second sun, as you don't really need that many if you already have duress and negate (can just counter the second cast of the second sun to stop it from winning and there are other ways to stop Gift such as Vraska / Hostage taker).
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So after analyzing what the most important cards are in the meta at the moment (Hazoret the fervent, The Scarab God, Settle the Wreckage, Ixalan's Binding, Cast Out, Hostage Taker), I've decided to try splashing for green and replacing Liliana, Death's Majesty with Vraska, Relic Seeker. The primary reason is that Vraska does something very important for the deck that none of the other cards we have can do, and that is answer a resolved Cast out and Ixalan's Binding. She can also provide tokens much like Liliana, Death's Majesty, but those tokens are also superior since they have menace. 6 cmc is definitely more mana than 5 cmc and the land count may need some work, but I think it is worth it to try to fight back against white decks.
I may swap to 1x Lost Legacy and 1x Dispossess to hit both gift and second sun, as you don't really need that many if you already have duress and negate (can just counter the second cast of the second sun to stop it from winning and there are other ways to stop Gift such as Vraska / Hostage taker).
I don’t think you have to do that. Cast Out is just a removal. Do you warp your deck and manabase to deal with any other removals? Or do you just deal with them with Lookout’s Dispersal or Siren Stormtamer? It’s a 1-for-1. Just shrug and proceed to win the game with the rest of your cards.
So after analyzing what the most important cards are in the meta at the moment (Hazoret the fervent, The Scarab God, Settle the Wreckage, Ixalan's Binding, Cast Out, Hostage Taker), I've decided to try splashing for green and replacing Liliana, Death's Majesty with Vraska, Relic Seeker. The primary reason is that Vraska does something very important for the deck that none of the other cards we have can do, and that is answer a resolved Cast out and Ixalan's Binding. She can also provide tokens much like Liliana, Death's Majesty, but those tokens are also superior since they have menace. 6 cmc is definitely more mana than 5 cmc and the land count may need some work, but I think it is worth it to try to fight back against white decks.
I may swap to 1x Lost Legacy and 1x Dispossess to hit both gift and second sun, as you don't really need that many if you already have duress and negate (can just counter the second cast of the second sun to stop it from winning and there are other ways to stop Gift such as Vraska / Hostage taker).
I don’t think you have to do that. Cast Out is just a removal. Do you warp your deck and manabase to deal with any other removals? Or do you just deal with them with Lookout’s Dispersal or Siren Stormtamer? It’s a 1-for-1. Just shrug and proceed to win the game with the rest of your cards.
That's the funny thing, I don't think we really have to do much to actually make casting an off color 6 drop reliable. I'm not saying it's a great idea, but if the situation post pro-tour ixalan ends up making it look like going for Vraska, Relic Seeker is the right move, than it likely wouldn't hurt our consistency too much.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I beat:
UB Pirate God r1 2-0
Sultai Energy r3 2-0
Mono Red r4 2-0
I lost to:
Temur Energy r2 (1-2)
I lost on the 5th turn of extra turns, and the guy took down the event so I can't be that mad
Top 8 was
5 Mono-Red
1 UB Midrange (me)
1 Temur Energy
1 RB Midrange (essentially UB without Blue cards and without Scarab God, but getting Glorybringer, Chandra, and Hazoret instead.
I lost to Mono-Red round 1 of top 8
I ended the event winning half a box so not bad in a days work if I say so myself.
My maindeck is the Jaberwocki list, the only differences are in the sideboard
In my testing contraband kingpin did nothing so it became an Essence Scatter and an additional Essence Extraction.
It is very hard to beat a good mono-red opponent with this deck, the guy I lost to in top 8 had been on the PT multiple times and he steamrolled me.
I feel 1 Rebuke needs to become a Bontu's last reckoning because in my game against temur I would have won instead of having to go to extra turns and losing if that 1 River's Rebuke I cast was a Bontu's Last Reckoning.
If you want to know more or how I boarded please ask. Sorry if the formatting looks bad I'm posting from mobile.
Standard Showdown tonight. My last post said it was Showdown, but I had a brain fart, that was an FNM. I went 2-2 tonight for a 4th place finish.
First round: Bye
Second round: Sultai Energy 0-2. First game it got to the point where I had Aetherborn, Hostage Taker, Rogue Refiner, Scarab God on the field and he was at 8, I was at 9. He had Winding Constrictor and a Ballista that he had worked up to 8 counters threatening lethal next turn. I was forced to double Ifnir Deadlands to stay alive, one taking 3 counters off of Ballista, the other killing Constrictor. I swung in with everything and he blocked Scarab God with Ballista and emptied his counters onto my Aetherborn and Refiner leaving him at 6. I thought I had it in the bag. He topdecked Rogue Refiner into another Walking Ballista on 4. Passed to me and I double Scarab God activation in response to the Scarab God scry trigger on Refiner (drew a land) and Aetherborn draining him to 4. I attacked with Scarab God and he chumped with Refiner. He topdecked his FOURTH Ballista on 5 and killed me... Second game, he played 3 Hydras in a row turns 4-6 and I had no counter magic. I got Scarab God down on turn 5 and held off the hydras for a little while with that. It was close, he drew and played his own Scarab God, and I grabbed the last creature out of our graveyards in response. Eventually I'd killed two of his hydras and he was at 5 with me at 6. And thennnnn... Ballista off the top for lethal -_- I'm starting to hate topdecked Ballistas lol. Never saw Bontu's that game. It's fun to play against Sultai otherwise, though. The games go really long usually. If I'd have won the second match, it would've been a tie.
Third round: Ramunap Red 0-2. Against my GF again. She was 2-0 and got paired down against me. She still had a shot at 1st so I was rooting for her... But I still didn't go easy (not that it mattered.) First game, I countered her Hazoret T4, but my draws didn't line up as well as hers after that. Second game, she just absolutely steamrolled me early on and finished me off with Glorybringers. Ramunap's nut draws definitely beat anything we can do. Same SB plan as my last post. I'm glad she won because she went on to beat my second round opponent in the finals for her first tournament win!
Fourth Round: Grixis Control 2-0. First game we both mulligan'd to 5. Kept a hand with 2 land, Champion of Wits, Essence Scatter, and Stormtamer. Drew into a Lookout's Dispersal and lands, but I guess that was enough. Countered his Turn 6 Scarab God with Scatter and Turn 8 or 9 Nicol Bolas with Dispersal. Drew and landed Scarab God for the eventual win. Sided in 3 Duress, 2 Negate, 2 Doomfall, sided out 2 Hostage Taker, 4 Fatal Push, 1 Lookout's Dispersal. Game 2 I kept a very nice hand of Swamp, Catacomb, Duress, Aetherborn, Stormtamer, 2 Freebooter. Found a negate for his Sweltering Suns which would've been horrible for me and continued to aggro-control him to death.
Not too happy about losing to Sultai again as I still think it's favorable for us, but overall it was still a fun couple of games. Finished 4th for the night because of my tiebreakers and GF finished 1st so I can't complain.
Oh, I was also running Vizier of Many Faces in place of my Baral's Expertise (Liliana's spot in the default list), but I never saw him in any of my games so I can't comment on him yet.
If you're tossing Vraska into the sideboard, how does the landbase look?
I haven't really had time this weekend to do much on working it in. Holiday stuff is going on and had a lot of shopping to do, unfortunately. I'll try to mess around with it tonight. Since it's a turn 6 play and we aren't really ramping I'm thinking just a few green sources is enough. There really isn't a lot in green we want, anyway, as they didn't get anything really nuts like Maelstrom Pulse or something. I do think we will eventually hit some new removal spell that is superior to Vraska's Contempt, as that is exactly what happened in Kahn's Block if I recall.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I fear that adding a third color will reduce the number of swamps and islands, and make Drowned Catacomb less good for us. Sultai Energy’s manabase is supported by Attune, Hub and Servant, and they worry more about the early game than the late game...
I fear that adding a third color will reduce the number of swamps and islands, and make Drowned Catacomb less good for us. Sultai Energy’s manabase is supported by Attune, Hub and Servant, and they worry more about the early game than the late game...
Yeah, I was playing around with treasure based cards to see how it panned out when I was planning her inclusion, but it looks like that mechanic may be strictly limited for now outside of a treasures improvise type build. I know I underestimated scions back in BFZ block so I didn't want to overlook treasures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As for the green splash for Vraska, no way. It's not worth messing with the mana base to have an answer for enchantments.
If you're having a ton of problems with the tokens deck, why not try out Consign // Oblivion? It has a ton of applications in our deck and fits with the general idea of what we're trying to do. It's tempo and card advantage. It bounces to set up for a counterspell. It removes tokens.
Not only does it deal with enchantments, but it also deals with any other problem permanents that slip through our counter magic, if even just for a turn.
Yeah, I think the Consign // Oblivion direction is more solid than trying to go three color. It's also a lot easier to find than Vraska, Relic Seeker. She seems to be rather popular with a lot of players at the moment for the usual planeswalker reasons. I actually think she is pretty narrow at best and probably will drop hard like a rock later.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
PPTQ results are in :
2-0 vs Sultai Midrange
1-2 vs RG Aggro (lost on the draw ; we tried for fun a 4th game without SB, and I easily won ; it's a coin toss vs these types of decks).
1-2 vs 4-colors Energy (I wasn't patient enough with Bontu's Last Reckoning, and only killed one Hydra with it ; another Hydra killed me).
2-1 vs UW Approach (I lost big time game 1 ; but we have an amazing SB for this matchup).
0-2 vs Temur Energy (I got stuck on 3 lands game 1, and died with 3 Hostage Taker in my hand ; I lost game 2 about the same way).
It's a bit disappointing, but not the end of the world. Losing to serious mana problems is frustrating, but part of variance. I'll focus instead on how to get a better matchup vs URGx Energy. Some adjustments to the main deck, sideboard and SB plan are required. I underestimated how many noncreature spells they play, particularly post SB. So, indeed, Duress and Negate are required to deal with Confiscation Coup and all other removals.
Champion of Wits underperformed for me. It's amazinging to Eternalize, but it takes so much time to get there. Ifnir Deadlands was pointless for the whole tournament.
What about replacing 4 Champion of Wits and 1 Ifnir Deadlands with 4 Chart a Course and the 4th Siren Stormtamer ? It may be more forgiving keeping a two lander with Chart a Course, since it provides true card advantage for only 2 mana (and dramatically increases our chance of hitting 5 lands in 5 turns, from 46% to 66%). The fourth Siren will not only help to trigger Raid for Chart a Course, but also to play 2-mana Lookout's Dispersal (to counter Whirler Virtuoso, even on the draw). Our curve may look awkward at 3CMC, but we should use this turn for our tapped lands or a 2-drop + either Fatal Push or Siren's ability.
For curve reasons, I would also be tempted to swap 1 Essence Scatter for 1 Harsh Scrutiny in the main deck (from SB) : T1 Siren, T2 attack + Chart a Course, T3 Harsh Scrutiny, and depending on what you discard and other cards you see in opponent's hand, you either follow with a 2-drop or keep mana for counterspell.
I also learned a few interesting things during the tournament :
Don't forget that The Scarab God's upkeep ability is both Scry X and opponent loses X life.
In an Hostage Taker battle, if you take opponent's HT with yours and there are no other interesting targets, you should cast opponent's HT and exile your own with it. He won't be able to mess with it without triggering a chain reaction.
If your Hostage Taker exiles your own creature that was under opponent’s control, if HT leaves the battlefield, the exiled creature will return to the battlefield under your control (as the owner) and not to the last controller.
I think Chart a Course is worth it and especially if there is enough drops to trigger raid. I've liked it when playing lists that had the drops to mitigate the downside.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've seen Chart a Course in some lists. I have a couple problems with the card. It can't be reanimated with Scarab God, and it can't be eternalized in grindy matchups. Both of those things have been relevant in several games for me so far.
Chart a Course beefs up our early card draw a bit, but it weakens our late game and I'm not sure the trade off is worth it. Doesn't hurt trying though and keeping in mind how the game would've played out differently if a Champion of Wits would've been in its place.
I also learned a few interesting things during the tournament :
Don't forget that The Scarab God's upkeep ability is both Scry X and opponent loses X life.
In an Hostage Taker battle, if you take opponent's HT with yours and there are no other interesting targets, you should cast opponent's HT and exile your own with it. He won't be able to mess with it without triggering a chain reaction.
If your Hostage Taker exiles your own creature that was under opponent’s control, if HT leaves the battlefield, the exiled creature will return to the battlefield under your control (as the owner) and not to the last controller.
Another tip about Scarab God. You can respond to the scry/drain trigger on the stack during your upkeep with a Scarab God activation and it'll count the newly eternalized creature for the scry/drain.
I've seen Chart a Course in some lists. I have a couple problems with the card. It can't be reanimated with Scarab God, and it can't be eternalized in grindy matchups. Both of those things have been relevant in several games for me so far.
Chart a Course beefs up our early card draw a bit, but it weakens our late game and I'm not sure the trade off is worth it. Doesn't hurt trying though and keeping in mind how the game would've played out differently if a Champion of Wits would've been in its place.
I understand what you mean. I've tested Chart a Course on XMage, and late game I felt something was missing in the graveyard...
As somebody who plays chart a course let me give you a rundown on the card.
Chart a Course in midrange and control match ups will be a 2 mana draw 2 70% of the time, in aggro matchups it's harder to get in till the mid game so it's functionally a tormenting voice 60% of the time in those games. When I played the older version that you guys are playing I constantly felt that champion was the weakest card in the deck, but I kept it because bringing him back was pure value, I think if you want a Tapout dras Pack you should main or side 2 Torrential Gearhulk and 1 Commit // Memory.
Since I have access to Gearhulk + Glimmer or Gearhulk + Memory It doesn't really hurt not being able to flash it back in a control matchup game 1.
Sidenote you talk of Reanimator your own dudes, but from my experience you want to steal your opponents creatures first especially when playing against temur and sultai. Mono Red and the UB mirror is one of the few games you should prioritize bringing your guys back first.
Finished 2-2 last night at a large-ish standard showdown.
Sadly, faced Ramunap Red in three of the 4 matches, finishing 1-2 in those, one of which went to turns, all three were tight matches that could've gone either way.
Lessons learned in the Ramunap matchup:
1. Being on the play AND having a turn one play like Siren Stormtamer is huge. I'm definitely glad I'm playing 4.
2. Getting to 5 mana for Scarab God before they get Hazoret, Chandra, or Glorybring out pretty much decided the games I won. Needless-to-say, it's a race.
3. As others have said, Champion of Wits is underwhelming early game. But, AMAZING as a target for Scarab God. Though, by that point, she's ensuring late-game inevitability.
4. This deck has a bit of an advantage, at least locally, in that many haven't played it much if at all. Example, more than one opponent misplayed by targeting one of my other creatures while I had a Stormtamer out. I don't expect that to last...
5. This deck is SUPER fun to play. Tons of options, tons of outs, tons of decisions.
I've shown my list to a grinder who knows the metagame pretty well. Here are some of his comments :
Siren Stormtamer may look good, but it's not. Good players will work around it, and it's worse than Blossoming Defense.
Hostage Taker is amazing in Esper Gift, because it's eternalized for free (so all lands available to cast the exiled card). It's also good in Temur Black, because it's easy to protect with Blossoming Defense. But Hostage Taker is probably more a liability than an asset in our deck, because we can't protect it effectively.
Lookout's Dispersal can be worked around by good players. If we pass the turn with two lands untapped for Dispersal, opponent can kill our Pirate EOT and then we can't cast our counterspell on Hydra or Glorybringer (or whatever). Essence Scatter is way better.
We have to assume that at any given competitive event, half the crowd is playing Temur Energy. Our maindeck should be geared toward this matchup.
Temur Energy will side out Servant of the Conduit and Whirler Virtuoso vs us. They know well that we will not win fast, and will thus side in cards that will perform in the long game. Fatal Push becomes a really bad card for us post SB. It can only target Longtusk Cub, and that is very narrowl.
Frankly, I agree with 100% of what he said. It's sad, however, because I think we may have to drop the Pirate theme and go with Jaberwocki's UB Midrange's list. I tested it a bit on XMage, and it's really not as fun as The Pirate God. Ideas? Opinions?
Note : White and Red are allied colors of UB. We may still have a functionnal manabase if we play Grixis or Esper. Are there cards in these colors that we should consider?
As somebody who plays chart a course let me give you a rundown on the card.
Chart a Course in midrange and control match ups will be a 2 mana draw 2 70% of the time, in aggro matchups it's harder to get in till the mid game so it's functionally a tormenting voice 60% of the time in those games. When I played the older version that you guys are playing I constantly felt that champion was the weakest card in the deck, but I kept it because bringing him back was pure value, I think if you want a Tapout dras Pack you should main or side 2 Torrential Gearhulk and 1 Commit // Memory.
What is « Tapout dras Pack » ?
Since I have access to Gearhulk + Glimmer or Gearhulk + Memory It doesn't really hurt not being able to flash it back in a control matchup game 1.
I've shown my list to a grinder who knows the metagame pretty well. Here are some of his comments :
Siren Stormtamer may look good, but it's not. Good players will work around it, and it's worse than Blossoming Defense.
Hostage Taker is amazing in Esper Gift, because it's eternalized for free (so all lands available to cast the exiled card). It's also good in Temur Black, because it's easy to protect with Blossoming Defense. But Hostage Taker is probably more a liability than an asset in our deck, because we can't protect it effectively.
Lookout's Dispersal can be worked around by good players. If we pass the turn with two lands untapped for Dispersal, opponent can kill our Pirate EOT and then we can't cast our counterspell on Hydra or Glorybringer (or whatever). Essence Scatter is way better.
We have to assume that at any given competitive event, half the crowd is playing Temur Energy. Our maindeck should be geared toward this matchup.
Temur Energy will side out Servant of the Conduit and Whirler Virtuoso vs us. They know well that we will not win fast, and will thus side in cards that will perform in the long game. Fatal Push becomes a really bad card for us post SB. It can only target Longtusk Cub, and that is very narrowl.
I respect the extra perspective, but I don't agree with all of it.
Siren Stormtamer: The whole point of this is to make the opponent work around it. It fills the same role as Blossoming Defense, it forces our opponent to have two removals to take out our main threats. Not only that, but it pulls other duties here too. It's a pirate and turns on Lookout's Dispersal and it's a creature that reads "UUB2: counter target spell that targets Scarab God" when it's in the graveyard.
Hostage Taker: Sure, Esper Gifts can get use out of it a bit earlier, I guess. But Esper Gifts can't protect it at all from removal. We also have the advantage of Kitesail Freebooter letting us know if the coast is clear. I'm still not understanding how he's fine with Blossoming Defense but not Stormtamer. The only matchup that I feel Stormtamer is lacking in is Sultai Energy with Walking Ballista, but Blossoming Defense isn't super great there either. Just because Stormtamer is on the field and not in our hand like Blossoming Defense, doesn't mean it's rendered useless. Even if our opponent knows we can counter any removal, it still means they need two removals. Sure they can kill Stormtamer if we drop it early, but there again that means they used a removal spell.
Lookout's Dispersal: This one I can sort of agree. I've already moved to a 3/2 split between Dispersal/Scatter. And I had the thought of EoT removal turning off our Dispersal sometimes, but again, that forces them to use a removal on our creatures specifically in our deck to eat removal. Dispersal is still good, just don't rely heavily on the reduced cost in the mid game when you suspect your opponent will drop a bomb unless you have removal of your own to follow up.
Temur: It's a given that Temur is rampant and our deck should be able to compete against it. I'm now running 3 Bontu's in the side for the Energy matchups. Game 1 isn't horrible either. It is strange that he thinks Temur is supposed to side out Whirler, I haven't seen that yet. I haven't felt comfortable siding out Fatal Push. Even if Longtusk Cub was the only thing it hit, it'd be worth it. T2 Longtusk Cub can get way out of hand.
I've shown my list to a grinder who knows the metagame pretty well. Here are some of his comments :
Siren Stormtamer may look good, but it's not. Good players will work around it, and it's worse than Blossoming Defense.
Hostage Taker is amazing in Esper Gift, because it's eternalized for free (so all lands available to cast the exiled card). It's also good in Temur Black, because it's easy to protect with Blossoming Defense. But Hostage Taker is probably more a liability than an asset in our deck, because we can't protect it effectively.
Lookout's Dispersal can be worked around by good players. If we pass the turn with two lands untapped for Dispersal, opponent can kill our Pirate EOT and then we can't cast our counterspell on Hydra or Glorybringer (or whatever). Essence Scatter is way better.
We have to assume that at any given competitive event, half the crowd is playing Temur Energy. Our maindeck should be geared toward this matchup.
Temur Energy will side out Servant of the Conduit and Whirler Virtuoso vs us. They know well that we will not win fast, and will thus side in cards that will perform in the long game. Fatal Push becomes a really bad card for us post SB. It can only target Longtusk Cub, and that is very narrowl.
Frankly, I agree with 100% of what he said. It's sad, however, because I think we may have to drop the Pirate theme and go with Jaberwocki's UB Midrange's list. I tested it a bit on XMage, and it's really not as fun as The Pirate God. Ideas? Opinions?
- Siren Stormtamer is not as good as Blossoming Defense, since the trick is telegraphed on the board, but it's not so much worse that the extra color for BD becomes worthwhile on its own. The real comparison should be to Dive Down, which in most cases is a color-shifted Blossoming Defense, but Stormtamer turning on Lookout's Dispersal and coming back with The Scarab God should put it over the top of Dive Down being disguisable.
- I have no idea how the 4x Stormtamer, 4x Kitesail Freebooter, 4x Lookout's Dispersal deck is supposed to be bad at protecting Hostage Taker. All this "good players can work around XYZ" stuff is nonsense, frankly. "Good players can work around" Reflector Mage, Thalia, Heretic Cathar, and Spell Queller too... that doesn't mean that the deck which combined those tempo elements with an absolutely devastating curve-topping bomb wasn't the best deck in Standard this time last year, and our bomb is better, and we get Dispersal which UW Flash can only dream of.
- Yes, if we have one Pirate out and keep passing with exactly 2 mana up, we're vulnerable to them killing our Pirate and turning off Dispersal. Essence Scatter is not "way better" though, since it doesn't counter Fumigate, Settle the Wreckage, any planeswalker (Chandra? Vraska?) or Approach of the Second Sun. And why are we continually putting ourselves in spots where this can happen with Dispersal? You don't think it's a little odd that this deck with all these disruptive elements is somehow magically having all of them parried cleanly by a generic energy deck with six kill spells that cost less than 5 mana?
- I could see Fatal Push being bad postboard. Walk the Plank is awkward with our desire to hold up Dispersal but is probably what we need here. Luckily Walk the Plank is probably excellent.
Finally, I do think there's probably a midway point between Jaberwocki's UB deck and this one. Gifted Aetherborn is superb right now.
I am probably not going to play a version of this deck, but UB seem like the best color duo outside of green. Just great tools all the way up and down the curve, and for all situations. Y'all have potential with this idea here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern: RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy: BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
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Energy
-1 Liliana, Death's Majesty, -2 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Champion of Wits and -1 Field of Ruin
+1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +1 Harsh Scrutiny, +1 Essence Scatter
Ramunap Red
-1 Liliana, Death's Majesty, -1 Hostage Taker, -1 Kitesail Freebooter, -1 Siren Stormtamer, -1 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Island
+3 Essence Extraction, +1 Harsh Scrutiny, +1 Essence Scatter
UB Control
-4 Fatal Push, -1 Essence Scatter, -2 Hostage Taker, -1 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Ifnir Deadlands
+3 Duress, +2 Negate, +2 Doomfall, +1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Tokens
-4 Fatal Push, -1 Harsh Scrutiny, -1 Essence Scatter, +1 Liliana, Death's Majesty, -1 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Field of Ruin
+1 Bontu's Last Reckoning, +3 Duress, +2 Negate, +2 Doomfall
UW Approach
-4 Fatal Push, -1 Harsh Scrutiny, -1 Essence Scatter, -2 Hostage Taker, -1 Champion of Wits *or* -1 Ifnir Deadlands
+3 Duress, +2 Negate, +2 Doomfall, +1 Liliana, Death's Majesty, +1 Lost Legacy
I still have to do the Mardu Vehicles and Esper Gift matchups. Somehow, Sultai and Temur Energy ended up with the same SB plan. Is that a mistake? What would you do differently?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
My top end in the sideboard currently has 2x River's Rebuke for token decks, 2x Vraska, Relic Seeker vs exile effects such as Ixalan's Binding and Cast Out, 2x Negate vs control, 3x Duress vs control, 2x Lost Legacy vs Combo / control like Second Sun decks, 1x Jace, Cunning Castaway vs control, 3x Essence Extraction for the aggro match up.
I may swap to 1x Lost Legacy and 1x Dispossess to hit both gift and second sun, as you don't really need that many if you already have duress and negate (can just counter the second cast of the second sun to stop it from winning and there are other ways to stop Gift such as Vraska / Hostage taker).
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don’t think you have to do that. Cast Out is just a removal. Do you warp your deck and manabase to deal with any other removals? Or do you just deal with them with Lookout’s Dispersal or Siren Stormtamer? It’s a 1-for-1. Just shrug and proceed to win the game with the rest of your cards.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
That's the funny thing, I don't think we really have to do much to actually make casting an off color 6 drop reliable. I'm not saying it's a great idea, but if the situation post pro-tour ixalan ends up making it look like going for Vraska, Relic Seeker is the right move, than it likely wouldn't hurt our consistency too much.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I beat:
UB Pirate God r1 2-0
Sultai Energy r3 2-0
Mono Red r4 2-0
I lost to:
Temur Energy r2 (1-2)
I lost on the 5th turn of extra turns, and the guy took down the event so I can't be that mad
Top 8 was
5 Mono-Red
1 UB Midrange (me)
1 Temur Energy
1 RB Midrange (essentially UB without Blue cards and without Scarab God, but getting Glorybringer, Chandra, and Hazoret instead.
I lost to Mono-Red round 1 of top 8
I ended the event winning half a box so not bad in a days work if I say so myself.
My maindeck is the Jaberwocki list, the only differences are in the sideboard
5 Island
8 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Fetid Pools
1 Field of Ruin
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
4 Kitesail Freebooter
3 The Scarab God
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Commit // Memory
1 Essence Extraction
2 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
2 Glimmer of Genius
3 Supreme Will
2 Vraska’s Contempt
1 Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
4 Negate
3 Duress
2 Essence Extraraction
2 River's Rebuke
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Arguel Blood Feast
1 Essence Scatter
1 Search for Azcanta
In my testing contraband kingpin did nothing so it became an Essence Scatter and an additional Essence Extraction.
It is very hard to beat a good mono-red opponent with this deck, the guy I lost to in top 8 had been on the PT multiple times and he steamrolled me.
I feel 1 Rebuke needs to become a Bontu's last reckoning because in my game against temur I would have won instead of having to go to extra turns and losing if that 1 River's Rebuke I cast was a Bontu's Last Reckoning.
If you want to know more or how I boarded please ask. Sorry if the formatting looks bad I'm posting from mobile.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
First round: Bye
Second round: Sultai Energy 0-2. First game it got to the point where I had Aetherborn, Hostage Taker, Rogue Refiner, Scarab God on the field and he was at 8, I was at 9. He had Winding Constrictor and a Ballista that he had worked up to 8 counters threatening lethal next turn. I was forced to double Ifnir Deadlands to stay alive, one taking 3 counters off of Ballista, the other killing Constrictor. I swung in with everything and he blocked Scarab God with Ballista and emptied his counters onto my Aetherborn and Refiner leaving him at 6. I thought I had it in the bag. He topdecked Rogue Refiner into another Walking Ballista on 4. Passed to me and I double Scarab God activation in response to the Scarab God scry trigger on Refiner (drew a land) and Aetherborn draining him to 4. I attacked with Scarab God and he chumped with Refiner. He topdecked his FOURTH Ballista on 5 and killed me... Second game, he played 3 Hydras in a row turns 4-6 and I had no counter magic. I got Scarab God down on turn 5 and held off the hydras for a little while with that. It was close, he drew and played his own Scarab God, and I grabbed the last creature out of our graveyards in response. Eventually I'd killed two of his hydras and he was at 5 with me at 6. And thennnnn... Ballista off the top for lethal -_- I'm starting to hate topdecked Ballistas lol. Never saw Bontu's that game. It's fun to play against Sultai otherwise, though. The games go really long usually. If I'd have won the second match, it would've been a tie.
Third round: Ramunap Red 0-2. Against my GF again. She was 2-0 and got paired down against me. She still had a shot at 1st so I was rooting for her... But I still didn't go easy (not that it mattered.) First game, I countered her Hazoret T4, but my draws didn't line up as well as hers after that. Second game, she just absolutely steamrolled me early on and finished me off with Glorybringers. Ramunap's nut draws definitely beat anything we can do. Same SB plan as my last post. I'm glad she won because she went on to beat my second round opponent in the finals for her first tournament win!
Fourth Round: Grixis Control 2-0. First game we both mulligan'd to 5. Kept a hand with 2 land, Champion of Wits, Essence Scatter, and Stormtamer. Drew into a Lookout's Dispersal and lands, but I guess that was enough. Countered his Turn 6 Scarab God with Scatter and Turn 8 or 9 Nicol Bolas with Dispersal. Drew and landed Scarab God for the eventual win. Sided in 3 Duress, 2 Negate, 2 Doomfall, sided out 2 Hostage Taker, 4 Fatal Push, 1 Lookout's Dispersal. Game 2 I kept a very nice hand of Swamp, Catacomb, Duress, Aetherborn, Stormtamer, 2 Freebooter. Found a negate for his Sweltering Suns which would've been horrible for me and continued to aggro-control him to death.
Not too happy about losing to Sultai again as I still think it's favorable for us, but overall it was still a fun couple of games. Finished 4th for the night because of my tiebreakers and GF finished 1st so I can't complain.
Oh, I was also running Vizier of Many Faces in place of my Baral's Expertise (Liliana's spot in the default list), but I never saw him in any of my games so I can't comment on him yet.
6 Swamp
5 Island
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Field of Ruin
Creatures (22)
3 Siren Stormtamer
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Champion of Wits
4 Hostage Taker
3 The Scarab God
4 Fatal Push
1 Harsh Scrutiny
1 Essence Scatter
4 Lookout's Dispersal
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
3 Duress
2 Negate
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Doomfall
3 Essence Extraction
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
1 Lost Legacy
1 Harsh Scrutiny
1 Essence Scatter
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
I haven't really had time this weekend to do much on working it in. Holiday stuff is going on and had a lot of shopping to do, unfortunately. I'll try to mess around with it tonight. Since it's a turn 6 play and we aren't really ramping I'm thinking just a few green sources is enough. There really isn't a lot in green we want, anyway, as they didn't get anything really nuts like Maelstrom Pulse or something. I do think we will eventually hit some new removal spell that is superior to Vraska's Contempt, as that is exactly what happened in Kahn's Block if I recall.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I fear that adding a third color will reduce the number of swamps and islands, and make Drowned Catacomb less good for us. Sultai Energy’s manabase is supported by Attune, Hub and Servant, and they worry more about the early game than the late game...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Yeah, I was playing around with treasure based cards to see how it panned out when I was planning her inclusion, but it looks like that mechanic may be strictly limited for now outside of a treasures improvise type build. I know I underestimated scions back in BFZ block so I didn't want to overlook treasures.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If you're having a ton of problems with the tokens deck, why not try out Consign // Oblivion? It has a ton of applications in our deck and fits with the general idea of what we're trying to do. It's tempo and card advantage. It bounces to set up for a counterspell. It removes tokens.
Not only does it deal with enchantments, but it also deals with any other problem permanents that slip through our counter magic, if even just for a turn.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
2-0 vs Sultai Midrange
1-2 vs RG Aggro (lost on the draw ; we tried for fun a 4th game without SB, and I easily won ; it's a coin toss vs these types of decks).
1-2 vs 4-colors Energy (I wasn't patient enough with Bontu's Last Reckoning, and only killed one Hydra with it ; another Hydra killed me).
2-1 vs UW Approach (I lost big time game 1 ; but we have an amazing SB for this matchup).
0-2 vs Temur Energy (I got stuck on 3 lands game 1, and died with 3 Hostage Taker in my hand ; I lost game 2 about the same way).
It's a bit disappointing, but not the end of the world. Losing to serious mana problems is frustrating, but part of variance. I'll focus instead on how to get a better matchup vs URGx Energy. Some adjustments to the main deck, sideboard and SB plan are required. I underestimated how many noncreature spells they play, particularly post SB. So, indeed, Duress and Negate are required to deal with Confiscation Coup and all other removals.
Champion of Wits underperformed for me. It's amazinging to Eternalize, but it takes so much time to get there. Ifnir Deadlands was pointless for the whole tournament.
What about replacing 4 Champion of Wits and 1 Ifnir Deadlands with 4 Chart a Course and the 4th Siren Stormtamer ? It may be more forgiving keeping a two lander with Chart a Course, since it provides true card advantage for only 2 mana (and dramatically increases our chance of hitting 5 lands in 5 turns, from 46% to 66%). The fourth Siren will not only help to trigger Raid for Chart a Course, but also to play 2-mana Lookout's Dispersal (to counter Whirler Virtuoso, even on the draw). Our curve may look awkward at 3CMC, but we should use this turn for our tapped lands or a 2-drop + either Fatal Push or Siren's ability.
For curve reasons, I would also be tempted to swap 1 Essence Scatter for 1 Harsh Scrutiny in the main deck (from SB) : T1 Siren, T2 attack + Chart a Course, T3 Harsh Scrutiny, and depending on what you discard and other cards you see in opponent's hand, you either follow with a 2-drop or keep mana for counterspell.
I also learned a few interesting things during the tournament :
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Chart a Course beefs up our early card draw a bit, but it weakens our late game and I'm not sure the trade off is worth it. Doesn't hurt trying though and keeping in mind how the game would've played out differently if a Champion of Wits would've been in its place.
Another tip about Scarab God. You can respond to the scry/drain trigger on the stack during your upkeep with a Scarab God activation and it'll count the newly eternalized creature for the scry/drain.
I understand what you mean. I've tested Chart a Course on XMage, and late game I felt something was missing in the graveyard...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Chart a Course in midrange and control match ups will be a 2 mana draw 2 70% of the time, in aggro matchups it's harder to get in till the mid game so it's functionally a tormenting voice 60% of the time in those games. When I played the older version that you guys are playing I constantly felt that champion was the weakest card in the deck, but I kept it because bringing him back was pure value, I think if you want a Tapout dras Pack you should main or side 2 Torrential Gearhulk and 1 Commit // Memory.
Since I have access to Gearhulk + Glimmer or Gearhulk + Memory It doesn't really hurt not being able to flash it back in a control matchup game 1.
Sidenote you talk of Reanimator your own dudes, but from my experience you want to steal your opponents creatures first especially when playing against temur and sultai. Mono Red and the UB mirror is one of the few games you should prioritize bringing your guys back first.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Sadly, faced Ramunap Red in three of the 4 matches, finishing 1-2 in those, one of which went to turns, all three were tight matches that could've gone either way.
Lessons learned in the Ramunap matchup:
1. Being on the play AND having a turn one play like Siren Stormtamer is huge. I'm definitely glad I'm playing 4.
2. Getting to 5 mana for Scarab God before they get Hazoret, Chandra, or Glorybring out pretty much decided the games I won. Needless-to-say, it's a race.
3. As others have said, Champion of Wits is underwhelming early game. But, AMAZING as a target for Scarab God. Though, by that point, she's ensuring late-game inevitability.
4. This deck has a bit of an advantage, at least locally, in that many haven't played it much if at all. Example, more than one opponent misplayed by targeting one of my other creatures while I had a Stormtamer out. I don't expect that to last...
5. This deck is SUPER fun to play. Tons of options, tons of outs, tons of decisions.
Note : White and Red are allied colors of UB. We may still have a functionnal manabase if we play Grixis or Esper. Are there cards in these colors that we should consider?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
What is « Tapout dras Pack » ?
Can you explain, please?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I respect the extra perspective, but I don't agree with all of it.
Siren Stormtamer: The whole point of this is to make the opponent work around it. It fills the same role as Blossoming Defense, it forces our opponent to have two removals to take out our main threats. Not only that, but it pulls other duties here too. It's a pirate and turns on Lookout's Dispersal and it's a creature that reads "UUB2: counter target spell that targets Scarab God" when it's in the graveyard.
Hostage Taker: Sure, Esper Gifts can get use out of it a bit earlier, I guess. But Esper Gifts can't protect it at all from removal. We also have the advantage of Kitesail Freebooter letting us know if the coast is clear. I'm still not understanding how he's fine with Blossoming Defense but not Stormtamer. The only matchup that I feel Stormtamer is lacking in is Sultai Energy with Walking Ballista, but Blossoming Defense isn't super great there either. Just because Stormtamer is on the field and not in our hand like Blossoming Defense, doesn't mean it's rendered useless. Even if our opponent knows we can counter any removal, it still means they need two removals. Sure they can kill Stormtamer if we drop it early, but there again that means they used a removal spell.
Lookout's Dispersal: This one I can sort of agree. I've already moved to a 3/2 split between Dispersal/Scatter. And I had the thought of EoT removal turning off our Dispersal sometimes, but again, that forces them to use a removal on our creatures specifically in our deck to eat removal. Dispersal is still good, just don't rely heavily on the reduced cost in the mid game when you suspect your opponent will drop a bomb unless you have removal of your own to follow up.
Temur: It's a given that Temur is rampant and our deck should be able to compete against it. I'm now running 3 Bontu's in the side for the Energy matchups. Game 1 isn't horrible either. It is strange that he thinks Temur is supposed to side out Whirler, I haven't seen that yet. I haven't felt comfortable siding out Fatal Push. Even if Longtusk Cub was the only thing it hit, it'd be worth it. T2 Longtusk Cub can get way out of hand.
- Siren Stormtamer is not as good as Blossoming Defense, since the trick is telegraphed on the board, but it's not so much worse that the extra color for BD becomes worthwhile on its own. The real comparison should be to Dive Down, which in most cases is a color-shifted Blossoming Defense, but Stormtamer turning on Lookout's Dispersal and coming back with The Scarab God should put it over the top of Dive Down being disguisable.
- I have no idea how the 4x Stormtamer, 4x Kitesail Freebooter, 4x Lookout's Dispersal deck is supposed to be bad at protecting Hostage Taker. All this "good players can work around XYZ" stuff is nonsense, frankly. "Good players can work around" Reflector Mage, Thalia, Heretic Cathar, and Spell Queller too... that doesn't mean that the deck which combined those tempo elements with an absolutely devastating curve-topping bomb wasn't the best deck in Standard this time last year, and our bomb is better, and we get Dispersal which UW Flash can only dream of.
- Yes, if we have one Pirate out and keep passing with exactly 2 mana up, we're vulnerable to them killing our Pirate and turning off Dispersal. Essence Scatter is not "way better" though, since it doesn't counter Fumigate, Settle the Wreckage, any planeswalker (Chandra? Vraska?) or Approach of the Second Sun. And why are we continually putting ourselves in spots where this can happen with Dispersal? You don't think it's a little odd that this deck with all these disruptive elements is somehow magically having all of them parried cleanly by a generic energy deck with six kill spells that cost less than 5 mana?
- I could see Fatal Push being bad postboard. Walk the Plank is awkward with our desire to hold up Dispersal but is probably what we need here. Luckily Walk the Plank is probably excellent.
Finally, I do think there's probably a midway point between Jaberwocki's UB deck and this one. Gifted Aetherborn is superb right now.
I am probably not going to play a version of this deck, but UB seem like the best color duo outside of green. Just great tools all the way up and down the curve, and for all situations. Y'all have potential with this idea here.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB