Disco Jace is underrated, IMHO. With T2 Skyship Plunderer and T3 Jace, he's ready for a T4 ultimate (loot *and* create a token with the copies on T4). Dreamcaller Siren will do a fine job protecting the copies then with her ETB ability at instant speed.
Jace may die before he does his mirror image trick, but still soaked 5+ damage and looted for you (a lot for 1UU). Note that his 2/2 Illusion tokens don't die to targeted abilities, only to targeted spells. This drawback is just illusory. Any playable removal would kill a bear, and who plays Dual Shot anyway?
It's fine if you can attack with Captain Lannery Storm on round 3 and at worst trade with an x/2 or x/3 creature. It's her Treasure token that you want anyway. There's a R in it to cast Glorybringer on T4!
Burn adds to Tempo, and you can really mess with opponent's mind when you pass the turn with two untapped lands. Is it Lookout's Dispersal or Lightning Strike? Both?
It may be easier to splash black than red, because of Drowned Catacomb and Fetid Pool. But other than Duress and Hostage Taker, there's nothing in black very appealing right now for the tribe (IMHO).
Without knowing the meta, it's impossible for the moment to guess what cards should go in the SB. But that being all said, I really have a hard time coming down with a firm list of 60 cards for the main deck. There's so much good stuff to jam up there...
I haven't tried RU flying pirates yet, but I have tried UW fliers and had good luck with it. I think with Favorable Winds, white works a bit better because we have the white anthem desert to act as copies 5-6 (sort of) in a pinch. Red it's hard to pull off without more card draw and filtering. That and fitting Jace is really hard.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Am I the only one that really thinks this Jace is just clunky and bad? He's useless in control, he doesn't help the aggro or midrange gameplan... why are people cramming him into anything blue? Is it just because he's a blue planeswalker?
Am I the only one that really thinks this Jace is just clunky and bad? He's useless in control, he doesn't help the aggro or midrange gameplan... why are people cramming him into anything blue? Is it just because he's a blue planeswalker?
It is because he is a 3CC Planeswalker and everyone wants any 3CC Planeswalker to be the next Liliana of the Veil.... none so far have been, but that doesn't stop people. I agree I think he is a little too clunky.
Looking at the results so far of SCG Open, Hostage Taker is probably the best reason to go UB. BG Energy and Temur Energy are respectively splashing U and B for that card, so it’s probably really worth it. I’m not sure however if flying weenies are enough to deal with Ramunap Red or the various energy decks... the tribe probably needs an other extension and more Pirates to eventually perform.
Am I the only one that really thinks this Jace is just clunky and bad? He's useless in control, he doesn't help the aggro or midrange gameplan... why are people cramming him into anything blue? Is it just because he's a blue planeswalker?
As to playing him just because he's U... I personally am not the biggest fan of Jace as a character, but I do recognize his popularity in the overall Magic universe with fans of the game. Wizards understands this as well, which is why, generally speaking, most Jace planeswalkers cards are AT LEAST playable, but also mostly powerful. They're designed this way on purpose, because fans like Jace and want him to be good. That's all it is.
I sincerely hope they reprint enemy colored checklands in Rivals of Ixalan. Right now the mana for a UR pirate build is too wonky, I think. You only have a Spirebluff Canal to generate ur mana. You could add Aether Hub, but that'd mean going the E route, which I think weakens any potential pirate-centric deck. The same goes for Spire of Industry. You'd have to run a lot of artifacts to get any real benefit from it. I do agree with UB being the strongest combination thus far because of Hostage Taker, and as I've said in other threads, gives us the hard removal we need.
you are forgetting:
4x Heart of Kiran: activation with paying a loyalty counter, and also plussing and getting a looter-scooter-kiran.
Your Jace stays at a scary 3 loyalty offcourse this way, and within lightning strike range...
Maybe better is to go ultimate first with Skyship Plunderer
Heart of Kiran isn't what it was with Giddeon leaving and Ixalan's cheap inclusions. There are so many answers to it now, relying on a bad walker to activate the now easily-removed vehicle seems kinda awful. I'll remind you spell pierce, duress, abrade and fatal push are all in standard and seeing play. Hell, even Hostage Taker is seeing some play. Dedicating slots for bad Jace jsut to try to get that on-curve Heart swing feels a bit too much.
As to playing him just because he's U... I personally am not the biggest fan of Jace as a character, but I do recognize his popularity in the overall Magic universe with fans of the game. Wizards understands this as well, which is why, generally speaking, most Jace planeswalkers cards are AT LEAST playable, but also mostly powerful. They're designed this way on purpose, because fans like Jace and want him to be good. That's all it is.
He's clunky because he doesn't generate card advantage, his plus is a conditional loot (as in, you need a body to connect to even get value out of his plus), hell, you even have to activate it pre-combat meaning your opponent can see it coming (if they care). Note that this is a +1 ability. Going to his -2 ability to make a token that dies if interacted with at all (I mean, most people aren't going to care, but there's a possibility that it gets caught in the crossfire of some multi-target effect). That drawback is fine honestly, it's mostly that it's a -2 ability when he has a +1 ability. His ult is mostly a joke outside of the silly doubling season interaction. You will get extra copies of a bad walker. It doesn't matter how many you have, they will never generate additional cards though, so you end up with a bunch of bad bodies and awkward loot effects even if you do somehow get him to go off with the proliferate pirate.
People are trying to slot him into that 3 spot, but I bet you they realize this is bad and will start replacing him with something better in that spot soon. Hell, he's already down to $10 as people realize he's really not that great.
I completely agree with you, @Lumovanis. I've given more thoughts to Disco Jace, and he only fits in a deck dedicated to weenie flyers (evasion needed to make his +1 ability function as intended). UR is not the place to do that, considering how bad the manabase is for Izzet. Maybe UW. But even then, it means the deck will fight on the aggro axis, and this axis is better fought on with other decks like Ramunap Red and Sultai Energy.
I can imagine playing Jace on an empty field (because of sweepers or removals). A single 2/2 won't help by much, and getting another 2/2 without killing Jace will require a lot of work.
UB is the way to play Pirates, I think. Maybe splash red for some amazing cards, but that's it.
The one argument that I can see for Jace is that he gets out of hand quickly against a control deck. He might not generate super-amazing value, but once you start cloning him a deck like UW Approach is going to have a hell of a time cleaning up the board.
The problem is his +1 isn't worth building around. It's not a loot for each flier that lands, it's literally one single loot trigger. It's worse than card draw, especially now that madness has left standard. A 3 mana conditional loot is not a good place to be in any deck really. It might have been playable with Fiery Temper still in standard, but not now. Hell, we even have Sorcerous Spyglass popping up on sideboards now, so even if he was useful he's got a really solid answer besides the dozens of instants and sorceries that can halt his play.
I'll leave it at that, but I really think people are trying too hard to force the 3 mana planeswalker who is obviously bad.
Yarrr! Enough said on the subject, matey! Let's sail to brighter skies, for there are riches beyond imagination to loot and plunder with Popeye Tempo (or Pirates Aggro-Control)!
Translation : This thread is pointless. UR decks are dead before the fight due to bad manabase ; Jace & Flyboys should be discussed in a UW thread dedicated to the subject ; Pirates should be UB, and discussed under the appropriate thread.
Given that the thread author has moved on and an abundance of overlapping threads, I am renaming this thread to clarify that it discusses UR decks and locking it. Please discuss all the Jace pirate decks here. Thanks - hoser2
Disco Jace is underrated, IMHO. With T2 Skyship Plunderer and T3 Jace, he's ready for a T4 ultimate (loot *and* create a token with the copies on T4). Dreamcaller Siren will do a fine job protecting the copies then with her ETB ability at instant speed.
Jace may die before he does his mirror image trick, but still soaked 5+ damage and looted for you (a lot for 1UU). Note that his 2/2 Illusion tokens don't die to targeted abilities, only to targeted spells. This drawback is just illusory. Any playable removal would kill a bear, and who plays Dual Shot anyway?
Now, add Lookout's Dispersal, Chart a Course, Opt, Siren Stormtamer, Storm Fleet Aerialist and Favorable Winds... That's a lot of very fine cards in a single color. And even these could make the cut : Nimble Obstructist, Aethersphere Harvester and Siren Lookout (and I'll dare compare the siren to Thraben Inspector).
So, why would you splash another color?
It's fine if you can attack with Captain Lannery Storm on round 3 and at worst trade with an x/2 or x/3 creature. It's her Treasure token that you want anyway. There's a R in it to cast Glorybringer on T4!
Burn adds to Tempo, and you can really mess with opponent's mind when you pass the turn with two untapped lands. Is it Lookout's Dispersal or Lightning Strike? Both?
Burn spells and First Strike pair very well, and this makes the case for two more Pirate cards : Kari Zev, Skyship Raider and Rigging Runner. The Runner's synergy with Skyship Plunderer, and Lightning-Rig Crew's synergy with the whole tribe, are other strong arguments for red.
It may be easier to splash black than red, because of Drowned Catacomb and Fetid Pool. But other than Duress and Hostage Taker, there's nothing in black very appealing right now for the tribe (IMHO).
Without knowing the meta, it's impossible for the moment to guess what cards should go in the SB. But that being all said, I really have a hard time coming down with a firm list of 60 cards for the main deck. There's so much good stuff to jam up there...
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Ramunap Ruins
5 Mountain
10 Island
Creatures (22)
4 Siren Stormtamer
2 Rigging Runner
4 Storm Fleet Aerialist
4 Skyship Plunderer
4 Lightning-Rig Crew
4 Dreamcaller Siren
4 Jace, Cunning Castaway
Spells (11)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Lookout's Dispersal
3 Chart a Course
3 Glorybringer
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
11 other cards
No room for Favorable Winds, Captain Lannery Storm or Glorybringer in the main deck... sad.
What do you think? How could we make this deck better? What about the discarded cards through Jace's loot? Can we make use of them?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You also might want Metallic Mimic to help max out the plunderer.
It is because he is a 3CC Planeswalker and everyone wants any 3CC Planeswalker to be the next Liliana of the Veil.... none so far have been, but that doesn't stop people. I agree I think he is a little too clunky.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I mean, clunky in what way tho? Mind you, he is a "build-around-me" planeswalker, but most planeswalkers are. Very few planeswalkers slot into just any ole' deck. Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Liliana of the Veil are the exceptions, not the rule. And I do think he can be built around in the right build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/783349-jace-and-the-boys-2-0-aka-u-x-flying-pirates Still a week in progress, but we're only a week into the new Standard season. I think he'll see a lot of play in tempo decks more than anything else.
As to playing him just because he's U... I personally am not the biggest fan of Jace as a character, but I do recognize his popularity in the overall Magic universe with fans of the game. Wizards understands this as well, which is why, generally speaking, most Jace planeswalkers cards are AT LEAST playable, but also mostly powerful. They're designed this way on purpose, because fans like Jace and want him to be good. That's all it is.
Heart of Kiran isn't what it was with Giddeon leaving and Ixalan's cheap inclusions. There are so many answers to it now, relying on a bad walker to activate the now easily-removed vehicle seems kinda awful. I'll remind you spell pierce, duress, abrade and fatal push are all in standard and seeing play. Hell, even Hostage Taker is seeing some play. Dedicating slots for bad Jace jsut to try to get that on-curve Heart swing feels a bit too much.
He's clunky because he doesn't generate card advantage, his plus is a conditional loot (as in, you need a body to connect to even get value out of his plus), hell, you even have to activate it pre-combat meaning your opponent can see it coming (if they care). Note that this is a +1 ability. Going to his -2 ability to make a token that dies if interacted with at all (I mean, most people aren't going to care, but there's a possibility that it gets caught in the crossfire of some multi-target effect). That drawback is fine honestly, it's mostly that it's a -2 ability when he has a +1 ability. His ult is mostly a joke outside of the silly doubling season interaction. You will get extra copies of a bad walker. It doesn't matter how many you have, they will never generate additional cards though, so you end up with a bunch of bad bodies and awkward loot effects even if you do somehow get him to go off with the proliferate pirate.
People are trying to slot him into that 3 spot, but I bet you they realize this is bad and will start replacing him with something better in that spot soon. Hell, he's already down to $10 as people realize he's really not that great.
I can imagine playing Jace on an empty field (because of sweepers or removals). A single 2/2 won't help by much, and getting another 2/2 without killing Jace will require a lot of work.
UB is the way to play Pirates, I think. Maybe splash red for some amazing cards, but that's it.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I'll leave it at that, but I really think people are trying too hard to force the 3 mana planeswalker who is obviously bad.
Translation : This thread is pointless. UR decks are dead before the fight due to bad manabase ; Jace & Flyboys should be discussed in a UW thread dedicated to the subject ; Pirates should be UB, and discussed under the appropriate thread.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.