With an energy subtheme going on I would rather play some copies of Glint-Sleeve Siphoner in the main to take advantage of the energy generating in the deck along with a great target to bring back with The Scarab God, possibly replacing all copies of Censor considering this is more of a tap out deck which Censor is better in a draw-go deck in the first few turns. Spell Pierce might be a better option, maybe dropping Ballista to two copies for two of them, considering your biggest nemesis would be a boardwipe. I think one copy of Torrential Gearhulk would be good too, maybe taking out one Gonti for it.
It's hard to critique the sideboard for now, but I'd want to replace the Last Reckonings with Carnage Tyrant.
I agree with all sentiments besides the la st rekonings they're there for GB counters and energy and temur energy and any form of dinos. All are hard to one for one with all there big guys and hydra is realized to beat once it resolves which is another option for our deck.
Glint sleeve does seem good but I don't feel we can take full advantage of him here like GB energy can cause the biggest advantage is his menace ability and we owe have no way to a swell him. Deathgorger has been mkinda under whelming in the main so might take them our find room for them in the board and add the tyrants in the main or maybe some noxious Gearhulk which are also awesome with Scarab god maybe even add liliana tomthe main.
With it being a bit top heavy we can use Rishkar as the ramp that can happen to pump Ballista and Siphoner if we want to get a bit more aggressive. If not we can still play a turn 4 Vraska or Tyrant or a Scarab God with open mana for Spell Pierce.
For my competitive efforts, I have been happily rocking Sultai Constrictor. It's been good, but part of me wants to go over people rather than sneak under them. Glint-Sleeve Siphoner has been amazing, just taking over games when allowed to survive. I am interested in decks that run Siphoner, the G energy producers that can feed it and Harnessed Lightning so they can kill Glorybringer before it can exert. With Game Day looming, I want to explore this archetype competitively.
I find the common naming for energy decks confusing. Basically, of these four color non-white decks, if it has Glorybringer or Chandra and not Siphoner or Vraska's Contempt, I consider it Temur Black. If it has Siphoner or Contempt, but no RR, then I consider it Sultai Red. With neither or both, I would think it is true four-color, but I haven't seem much, if any competitive finishes for this, so discussion of 4-color should be in the Temur thread until somebody makes one. For me, the particular decks that I am considering can be called Sultai Red Midrange and I can find examples that have performed well competitively: here, here and here.
I plan to tweak roaroftheden's version with the budget concession of two Scarab Gods.
I was going to ask why we should play this over Sultai Constrictor or Sultai Energy.
This is the real Sultai energy, to my mind.
Sultai Constrictor is slightly "smaller" than Temur and is weak to Glorybringer. It is also weak to decks with enough removal to disrupt the Constrictor synergies. It is good when the Temur decks go big and splash to contest the mirror.
This Sultai Energy Mid-range attempts to go slightly "bigger" than Temur. If you want to play the best deck and win, play Temur. If you want to play a mid-range game that can go over Temur and be somewhat different, you could give this a try.
I like it. You have six answers for Glorybringer, nine if we count Blossoming Defense. Relative to the Sultai Red MTGO 5-0s I've been looking at, you have Cub in place of Servant. I am super-curious about the results you get. The Vraskas, Scarab Gods and Champions leave me wanting you to play another land, maybe replacing a maindeck Push.
I like it. You have six answers for Glorybringer, nine if we count Blossoming Defense. Relative to the Sultai Red MTGO 5-0s I've been looking at, you have Cub in place of Servant. I am super-curious about the results you get. The Vraskas, Scarab Gods and Champions leave me wanting you to play another land, maybe replacing a maindeck Push.
To be honest, the mana has been fine. With all the draw/filtering it really hasn't been a problem.
Also I replaced the Servants with the Cubs so I could have more threats, especially against Approach, which is one of the harder match-ups. Again with all the draw/filtering, the mana has been fine and I am really liking the threat density of the deck.
I took my deck from above (with 2 Abrades worked in because last time I played 2 of 3 matches against Gift decks) to Monday Night Magic. I went 0-2-1, losing to Ramunap Red and RB Artifacts, while drawing mono-W tokens. I don't think I drew particularly well, but the deck seems like it might be a decent meta choice against Temur, but not necessarily good against the field.
I haven't gotten the chance to play test it too much but so far it seems to fare quite well against, Sultai Constrictor, UW Approach, GPG, and Mono Black Aggro. I really like this build overall as it has more answers and more capable of grinding the game out, unlike the old Snek shell.
I'd definitely appreciate any feedback on it, particularly the sideboard. Thank you!
That looks really good. I found myself wanting to work another Deathgorge Scavenger and Vraska into the sideboard. I think I start by shaving a Negate. I also wonder whether a Push should move to the sideboard, but your meta will vary. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you understand that these are just suggestions for consideration.
So I dropped Hostage Taker, which allowed me to drop Blossoming Defense as well. In place I added Gonti, and it also allowed me to add a top end control style finsher, blue Gearhulk and some maindeck counters in Scatter. I was looking at my meta, RR, Temur, Pummeler, and realized a lot of decks are very creature heavy. So between Scrutiny, Push, Contempt, and Scatter I should be able to answer any threat. Looking at the top tier decks in general you have aggro (Ramunap Red), which usually has a tough time against midrange, midrange (Temur), which has a difficult time against control, and control (Approach), which has a difficult time against aggro. So I tried to craft a deck that has early game interaction, and plenty of control elements to answer any threat.
With Essence Scatter and Harsh Scrutiny in the main, you seem pre-boarded against Temur. I think that makes sense, particularly given what you say about your meta. Game 1 against control seems difficult, but every card seems good. I wouldn't run that many specialized cards in my meta, but it seems like you know yours.
I am a little concerned about your U sources for Vizier and your total land count. Most decks I look at like this have 22 land and 4 Servant. With 4 6 drops, Scarab God and Champion, I would probably add two land in some combination of Island and Fetid Heath.
So I dropped Hostage Taker, which allowed me to drop Blossoming Defense as well. In place I added Gonti, and it also allowed me to add a top end control style finsher, blue Gearhulk and some maindeck counters in Scatter. I was looking at my meta, RR, Temur, Pummeler, and realized a lot of decks are very creature heavy. So between Scrutiny, Push, Contempt, and Scatter I should be able to answer any threat. Looking at the top tier decks in general you have aggro (Ramunap Red), which usually has a tough time against midrange, midrange (Temur), which has a difficult time against control, and control (Approach), which has a difficult time against aggro. So I tried to craft a deck that has early game interaction, and plenty of control elements to answer any threat.
What do you guys think?
You should really play 4x of both Blooming Marsh AND Botanical Sanctum as that increases your chances of perfectly fixing your mana since both fastlands let you play Attune with Aether on Turn 1. You also want to have more Forests than any other basic lands, again, to increase your chances of fixing mana with Attune with Aether. It is still very possible to lose from being color screwed with these tri-color energy decks, so don't push it.
I'm not sure about Vraska being 2x especially when you already have 2x Torrential Gearhulk; it seems it would be rather clunky. Vraska is very good but there's only so much playability in any 6-mana planeswalker these days.
You also need more Instants in the main to warrant running 2x Torrential Gearhulk, otherwise you run the risk of it being just a 5/6 body, which is really bad for 6 mana.
So after playing many versions of Snek and then Sultai Snek, I decided to re-explore midrange, but this time from a Reanimation/Energy angle. Feels like this is the right thread for this, as it is midrange based, but let me know if I missed the mark.
Took to Standard last night after putting together in the morning. Results 2-1. Beat Mardu Vehicles and a Jund dino/energy crossbreed deck. (best I could tell) Lost to Esper Approach, beat them game 1, got them to 2 on Game 2, but then they stabilized with Fumigate into Approach #2. Game 3 was a tough one, I knew he had two Settle's, so I attacked as aggressively as possible without giving up my board, he top decked a Vraska's contempt for my scarab god and that was all she wrote.
I may go up on Champion of Wits and down 1 Hostage Taker, but I'm not sure. I used Hostage Taker as a tempo play on 4 lots of times. Against Mardu on game 3, he was tapped out on t4, I snagged his Heart, he killed my Taker on his t5. Which let me survive to play Lilly on my turn, Animated a Demon of dark Schemes which wiped his pilots out. Then 2 turns later reanimated the Taker with Lilly, and immediately cast his Heart this time, GG. The free Reanimation with Lilly makes Hostage taker so much better because you can steal big stuff and cast it same turn, especially if opponent taps out.
For sideboard, packing the anti control cards in Duress and Negate. The Deathgorge, Hydra's and scrutiny's when against Red to move the curve lower, and then for Temur, I don't want to overboard, just bring in the negates and scrutiny's. You can force some good action against Temur. Demon wipes out their Thopters, and you can use any of their creatures against them quite easily to good effect, or just more energy for Siphoner, etc. Gonna stick with this one the next few weeks and tune it a bit.
Pretty good! I was messing around with the reanimator builds here a while back. I decided that I liked The Scarab God, but the meta wasn't right for Liliana to shine. There are some links to decklists in the OP that might have some interesting ideas.
Ah, I knew I had seen a reanimator thread before. And I posted in that one too. I can move any future thoughts to that one.
I did go 3-1 at FNM tonight. Took out mardu vehicles with a sick reanimate demon of dark schemes with scarab god to nuke their board, then reanimate hostage taker with the demon to snag hazoret play after they went hellbent to try and finish me off.
Also beat Temur on a crazy game where I was at 3, opponent at 20 on turn 6. I land noxious and eat his 6/6 cub to stabilize. He brings in torrential, and uses harnessed to kill it. I slam Lilliana, reanimate, eat the gearhulk and gain 6 again. Then make a zombie, flipping scarab into the yard next turn. Play my second Lilliana, reanimate scarab god and win easily from there. Deck has some good play.
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4 Walking Ballista
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Rogue Refiner
3 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 Scarab god
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraskas Contempt
3 Censor
4 Glimmer of genius
2 Walk the Plank
1 Vraska, relic seeker
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Drowned Caracomb
1 Botanical Sanctum
2 Fetid Pools
4 Aether Huh
1 Field of ruin
3 swamp
3 Forest
1 Island
2 Duress
2 Negate
2 Appetite for the unnatural
1 Disposses
1 Lost legacy
2 Yahennis expertise
3 Gifted Aetherborn
Testing has been pretty good out grind most control and midtamhe decks if scarab god resolves bringing back refiners and gontis is fantastic.
It's hard to critique the sideboard for now, but I'd want to replace the Last Reckonings with Carnage Tyrant.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Glint sleeve does seem good but I don't feel we can take full advantage of him here like GB energy can cause the biggest advantage is his menace ability and we owe have no way to a swell him. Deathgorger has been mkinda under whelming in the main so might take them our find room for them in the board and add the tyrants in the main or maybe some noxious Gearhulk which are also awesome with Scarab god maybe even add liliana tomthe main.
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
2 Walking Ballista
3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Rogue Refiner
3 Ripjaw Raptor
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 The Scarab God
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Spell Pierce
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraskas Contempt
3 Glimmer of Genius
4 Attune With Aether
2 Walk the Plank
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
Lands
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Drowned Caracomb
1 Botanical Sanctum
2 Fetid Pools
4 Aether Hub
1 Field of ruin
3 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Island
With it being a bit top heavy we can use Rishkar as the ramp that can happen to pump Ballista and Siphoner if we want to get a bit more aggressive. If not we can still play a turn 4 Vraska or Tyrant or a Scarab God with open mana for Spell Pierce.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I find the common naming for energy decks confusing. Basically, of these four color non-white decks, if it has Glorybringer or Chandra and not Siphoner or Vraska's Contempt, I consider it Temur Black. If it has Siphoner or Contempt, but no RR, then I consider it Sultai Red. With neither or both, I would think it is true four-color, but I haven't seem much, if any competitive finishes for this, so discussion of 4-color should be in the Temur thread until somebody makes one. For me, the particular decks that I am considering can be called Sultai Red Midrange and I can find examples that have performed well competitively: here, here and here.
I plan to tweak roaroftheden's version with the budget concession of two Scarab Gods.
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Rogue Refiner
3 Whirler Virtuoso
3 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2 The Scarab God
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells
4 Attune with Aether
3 Fatal Push
1 Commit // Memory
4 Harnessed Lightning
1 Glimmer of Genius
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Confiscation Coup
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Canyon Slough
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Duress
1 Fiery Cannonade
1 Hour of Devastation
3 Negate
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Vraska's Contempt
Edit: Another Sultai Red MTGO 5-0, this time by Jaberwocki.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Sultai Constrictor is slightly "smaller" than Temur and is weak to Glorybringer. It is also weak to decks with enough removal to disrupt the Constrictor synergies. It is good when the Temur decks go big and splash to contest the mirror.
This Sultai Energy Mid-range attempts to go slightly "bigger" than Temur. If you want to play the best deck and win, play Temur. If you want to play a mid-range game that can go over Temur and be somewhat different, you could give this a try.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I don't think this belongs in the Proven GBx Snek thread, as I am not using the Snek, Rishkar, Ballista package.
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Aether Hub
3x Botanical Sanctum
3x Drowned Catacomb
4x Swamp
2x Forest
1x Island
Creatures 20
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Rogue Refiner
3x Champion of Wits
3x Hostage Taker
2x The Scarab God
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Instants 10
4x Fatal Push
3x Blossoming Defense
3x Vraska's Contempt
Sorceries 7
4x Attune with Aether
3x Harsh Scrutiny
3x Duress
2x Negate
2x Lost Legacy
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2x Vizier of Many Faces
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
1x Appetite for the Unnatural
1x River's Rebuke
Any constructive criticism is welcome, thanks!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
To be honest, the mana has been fine. With all the draw/filtering it really hasn't been a problem.
Also I replaced the Servants with the Cubs so I could have more threats, especially against Approach, which is one of the harder match-ups. Again with all the draw/filtering, the mana has been fine and I am really liking the threat density of the deck.
Edit: another MTGO 5-0
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4x Rogue Refiner
4x Bristling Hydra
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x The Scarab God
1x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Instants (10):
4x Fatal Push
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Essence Scatter
1x Supreme Will
1x Essence Extraction
4x Attune with Aether
2x Confiscation Coup
Planeswalker (1):
1x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Land (22):
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Fetid Pools
2x Drowned Catacomb
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Island
1x Appetite for the Unnatural
1x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1x River's Rebuke
2x Essence Extraction
2x Duress
2x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Vizier of Many Faces
4x Negate
I haven't gotten the chance to play test it too much but so far it seems to fare quite well against, Sultai Constrictor, UW Approach, GPG, and Mono Black Aggro. I really like this build overall as it has more answers and more capable of grinding the game out, unlike the old Snek shell.
I'd definitely appreciate any feedback on it, particularly the sideboard. Thank you!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Botanical Sanctum
3x Drowned Catacomb
4x Swamp
2x Forest
1x Island
Creatures 21
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Rogue Refiner
3x Champion of Wits
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
2x The Scarab God
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Vraska, Relic Seeker
Instants 8
4x Fatal Push
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Essence Scatter
Sorcery 8
4x Attune with Aether
4x Harsh Scrutiny
4x Negate
3x Duress
3x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Vizier of Many Faces
2x Appetite for the Unnatural
1x River's Rebuke
So I dropped Hostage Taker, which allowed me to drop Blossoming Defense as well. In place I added Gonti, and it also allowed me to add a top end control style finsher, blue Gearhulk and some maindeck counters in Scatter. I was looking at my meta, RR, Temur, Pummeler, and realized a lot of decks are very creature heavy. So between Scrutiny, Push, Contempt, and Scatter I should be able to answer any threat. Looking at the top tier decks in general you have aggro (Ramunap Red), which usually has a tough time against midrange, midrange (Temur), which has a difficult time against control, and control (Approach), which has a difficult time against aggro. So I tried to craft a deck that has early game interaction, and plenty of control elements to answer any threat.
What do you guys think?
I am a little concerned about your U sources for Vizier and your total land count. Most decks I look at like this have 22 land and 4 Servant. With 4 6 drops, Scarab God and Champion, I would probably add two land in some combination of Island and Fetid Heath.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
You should really play 4x of both Blooming Marsh AND Botanical Sanctum as that increases your chances of perfectly fixing your mana since both fastlands let you play Attune with Aether on Turn 1. You also want to have more Forests than any other basic lands, again, to increase your chances of fixing mana with Attune with Aether. It is still very possible to lose from being color screwed with these tri-color energy decks, so don't push it.
I'm not sure about Vraska being 2x especially when you already have 2x Torrential Gearhulk; it seems it would be rather clunky. Vraska is very good but there's only so much playability in any 6-mana planeswalker these days.
You also need more Instants in the main to warrant running 2x Torrential Gearhulk, otherwise you run the risk of it being just a 5/6 body, which is really bad for 6 mana.
4 Attune with Aether
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Botanical Sanctum
3 Bristling Hydra
1 Confiscation Coup
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
2 Fetid Pools
4 Forest
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
2 Vizier of Many Faces
1 Island
4 Rogue Refiner
4 Servant of the Conduit
1 Supreme Will
2 Swamp
3 The Scarab God
1 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Vraska's Contempt
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
3 Duress
3 Essence Extraction
3 Negate
3 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 River's Rebuke
Thoughts? I'm going to store champs today with this same list.
4x Aether Hub
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Fetid Pools
3x Swamp
3x Forest
1x Island
Creatures 23
4x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Rogue Refiner
2x Champion of Wits
3x Hostage Taker
2x The Scarab God
2x Noxious Gearhulk
2x Demon of Dark Schemes
3x Liliana, Death's Majesty
Instants 9
4x Fatal Push
3x Vraska's Contempt
2x Essence Scatter
Sorcery 4
4x Attune with Aether
3x Duress
3x Harsh Scrutiny
3x Negate
3x Deathgorge Scavenger
3x Bristling Hydra
Took to Standard last night after putting together in the morning. Results 2-1. Beat Mardu Vehicles and a Jund dino/energy crossbreed deck. (best I could tell) Lost to Esper Approach, beat them game 1, got them to 2 on Game 2, but then they stabilized with Fumigate into Approach #2. Game 3 was a tough one, I knew he had two Settle's, so I attacked as aggressively as possible without giving up my board, he top decked a Vraska's contempt for my scarab god and that was all she wrote.
I may go up on Champion of Wits and down 1 Hostage Taker, but I'm not sure. I used Hostage Taker as a tempo play on 4 lots of times. Against Mardu on game 3, he was tapped out on t4, I snagged his Heart, he killed my Taker on his t5. Which let me survive to play Lilly on my turn, Animated a Demon of dark Schemes which wiped his pilots out. Then 2 turns later reanimated the Taker with Lilly, and immediately cast his Heart this time, GG. The free Reanimation with Lilly makes Hostage taker so much better because you can steal big stuff and cast it same turn, especially if opponent taps out.
For sideboard, packing the anti control cards in Duress and Negate. The Deathgorge, Hydra's and scrutiny's when against Red to move the curve lower, and then for Temur, I don't want to overboard, just bring in the negates and scrutiny's. You can force some good action against Temur. Demon wipes out their Thopters, and you can use any of their creatures against them quite easily to good effect, or just more energy for Siphoner, etc. Gonna stick with this one the next few weeks and tune it a bit.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I did go 3-1 at FNM tonight. Took out mardu vehicles with a sick reanimate demon of dark schemes with scarab god to nuke their board, then reanimate hostage taker with the demon to snag hazoret play after they went hellbent to try and finish me off.
Also beat Temur on a crazy game where I was at 3, opponent at 20 on turn 6. I land noxious and eat his 6/6 cub to stabilize. He brings in torrential, and uses harnessed to kill it. I slam Lilliana, reanimate, eat the gearhulk and gain 6 again. Then make a zombie, flipping scarab into the yard next turn. Play my second Lilliana, reanimate scarab god and win easily from there. Deck has some good play.