Not sure how well turning Merfolk into a controlish deck will do for you. Unless you're going to use the Hexproof merfolk (which is not cost efficient or timely) you're completely relying on your hand to line up for you every time. Not just with counters but with enough pump that your creature doesn't just get blocked.
With Chupacabra out there you'd have to run 3 mana counters to be sure you get what's after you and then there's Gonti to worry about.
Perhaps your original list just needs massaging for your meta, menfolk's strength is filling the board quickly even after a wipe and keeping cards in hand. To drop all that for another direction seems like a lot more work than necessary.
Both protecting and pumping a creature enough to kill by turn 5-6 is not viable.
Perhaps hexproof with flying enchant could work but again you're looking at lining up those 8 cards with 8 or so support cards and still be mana efficient... as well as survive fast decks chewing your face off.
Do you have a proposed list? What decks beat you and what list did you play with that got beat?
I've seen some people on youtube playing Merfolk and making play mistakes such as holding for card draw incessantly instead of attacking to get ahead. Did you play optimally for your build?
Just some thoughts. Glad you're taking up Standard and enjoying it.
With Hadana's Climb, you want Blossoming Defense over Unsummon. You can't afford to bounce a creature you started to pump, and +2/+2 turns into +4/+4 with Temple.
Waters and Climb do different things, and are "do nothing" cards, so we can't run too many along with 4-6 non merfolk spells. I think it's best to choose one and leave the other in the sideboard, or cut it entirely. Otherwise, you must lower the number of non-creature spells in the main.
I must say Waters seems rather mediocre since we have access to Pioneer.
It's true that a list would let us see where your idea goes !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Swiftwarden is a pretty attractive card but again you have to hold up 3 mana to make it work. It's heavily reliant on your build. And why wouldn't you run a counter instead that could stop a sweeper from taking all your creatures OR a point and shoot removal instead?
You should look at going for an unblockable build with Blossoming Defense and Spell Pierce. 4/2 might be the game 1 sweetspot.
This is what I am hoping to try out at fnm. I went with a lower curve to fit the 20 land build to add a couple more spells. Last tournament I played was 20 years ago. I am sure the side board needs work and the main deck too.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be a great help.
Thanks
Tempest Caller really needs to be somewhere in the 75 at least x2 as well. Seafloor Oracle also should be considered especially with Mist cloaked and any creature mass Strat.
This is what I am hoping to try out at fnm. I went with a lower curve to fit the 20 land build to add a couple more spells. Last tournament I played was 20 years ago. I am sure the side board needs work and the main deck too.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be a great help.
Thanks
My cousin has been cleaning up with a 'go wide' merfolk approach.
Simililar to you except.
-4 Branchwalker
-3 jade bearer
-1 unsummon
+1 Mist-Cloaked Herald
+2 Blossoming Defense
+4 Jungle Pioneer
+1 metallic mimic
Jungleborn Pioneer is the bee's knees with Deeproot Elite, Mistbinder and Mimic. Not to mention turn 4 Kumena with defense support from blossoming defense and spell pierce is a great turn 4-5 play.
I cut Merfolk Branchwalker and immediately noticed a change for the better. I found that she either just gave me a land and was a crappy body in the 2 drop slot that's already heavy or force me to tell my opponent my next move especially late game. I cut her in favor of more spells.
After looking at recent top 8's most decks play threats with 8-10 removal ***main***board*** so... If we can get our little creatures out and then protect them it quickly becomes game over. Sideboard is still tough. I have had trouble figuring out what to sideboard but I found mono red to be an easy matchup after -1 blossom, unsummon and spell pierce for Shaper's Sanctuary I draw so much off their removal spells and target abilities from their creatures that they can't keep up.
I found that U/W embalm is pretty nasty matchup because they can fumigate and shrug it off. It really makes me want to run River's Rebuke and at that rate Carnage Tyrant verse Scarab Control and maybe u/w approach.
Even mono red plays 28 creatures with 10 spells but they curve at 4 with half the draw potential.
The One With the Wind 1 of has been sorta interesting. Kumena is a shining star with Deeproot Elite. Getting in each turn with at least 1 creature while leaving a block force is strong and thus why flying is valuable as well. Hashep Oasis also can sometimes see things through but it's more I think a threat they will play around.
The Oasis is pressure and inevitability. They don't know when you're going to top deck the Tempest caller and just walk in.
As much as I despise the card Heart of Kiran could be something to try. Merfolk doesn't want to attack all the time so tapping 2 to poke with it isn't a big deal.
Anyone see the 36 creature with 2 Unsummon list that topped 8 at a trial or something? That’s just insane. I liked seeing seafloor oracle and the most cloaked herald but Idk anymore what’s better. All out aggrieved with deeproot waters side for wide recovery or toning down to my previous list with back up spells. I think so hard. Lol
@HadesLadiesMan
I think blue mana does not work in your deck. 9 blue sources for 9 blue nonmerfolk spells in the main + 6 more in the sideboard is not enough.
11 feels like a bare minimum. With that many 3-drops + Oasis and the need to cast merfolk and leave protection up, adding 2 Islands could be a solution (-1 One With the Wind, -1 Unsummon).
I will submit my list in the following days. Now I have no access to a computer with Internet. My deck was pretty modest.
Submit your list in the coming days?? Are you communicating by pigeon carrier? Or telegraph? You submitted this text. Why didnt you just post it then? Are you developing technology that allows you to post your deck here?
The Oasis is pressure and inevitability. They don't know when you're going to top deck the Tempest caller and just walk in.
As much as I despise the card Heart of Kiran could be something to try. Merfolk doesn't want to attack all the time so tapping 2 to poke with it isn't a big deal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I will submit my list in the following days. Now I have no access to a computer with Internet. My deck was pretty modest.
Submit your list in the coming days?? Are you communicating by pigeon carrier? Or telegraph? You submitted this text. Why didnt you just post it then? Are you developing technology that allows you to post your deck here?
Could be they don't want to deal with typing up their list on a phone?
It looks like Dead_folk was right
Why? Well, I did my usual 0:5 yesterday, feeling like that is "proper" for Merfolk strength in Standard.
Then I copied this list: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=26611&iddeck=209138
(except those 2 Nissas in the sideboard, they never did anything whenever I cast them, paper or online)
and I just 5:0-ed Mtgo Standard with it. Obsessions and Blossoms are exactly what I needed.
I believe I won every red matchup so far. Two problems, as mentioned, are Snek + Ballista and removal into Scarab, RDW has neither.
We have draft superstars like Defense, Boon and some 4 toughness dudes.
So I believe you.
We have other issues but red removal is not one of them.
There are so many choices. And so many traditional choices that people just auto include. I think as a whole Merfolk are strong but finding the best balance is hard. I redid almost my whole deck. Trying it out Saturday.
So... what are y'alls thoughts on playing 1-2 ghalta, primal hunger? I find it's super easy to have 10+ power out pretty early and it forces them to deal with him or get obliterated.
I think that Ghalta is great if somehow Temur Energy and Rdw are viable.
But all I play against are Settle, Fumigate, Contempt and Disintegration, while not needing help against Hazored.
Wrong time for it, probably.
Any ideas on what match up 4 sea floor oracles is good in? Curious to see so many.
I've thought about including Sea Floor Oracle in my sideboard for control matchups, but ultimately I think we want our card engine's to be Kumena, Silvergill, and Nissa.
Been play testing quite a bit over the past month. Here's where I've landed.
Most notably, I think Nissa Steward of Elements must be in every fish maindeck right now. She is the engine that keeps us rolling into the mid-game when things go on too long. She can close games out that we're already winning, but most importantly she can help tremendously when trying to recover from a board wipe. She brings "card advantage engine" card count up to 10 (Kumena, Silvergill), allowing us to drop the over hyped Merfolk Branchwalker. This list has only 13 spells over 3 cmc, which made me feel comfortable dropping to 20 lands (though I think 21 or 22 is probably correct), as the deck can play a while on only 2-3 lands. Jungleborn Pioneer also has been a complete all-star for me, not only triggering Deeproot Elite and Metallic Mimic extra, but also coming in before or after Kumena makes for an easy tap 3: draw a card.
I've top 4'd every Standard Showdown (which is generally 20+ players and decks range from casual to tier 1) I've played since Rivals released and have only lost 1 round against Grixis Energy.
I'm coming back to Magic after a several year hiatus and I'm so happy to see my fish friends frolicking around standard again. I'm happy to talk card choices / matchups with yall.
Happy swimming!
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With Chupacabra out there you'd have to run 3 mana counters to be sure you get what's after you and then there's Gonti to worry about.
Perhaps your original list just needs massaging for your meta, menfolk's strength is filling the board quickly even after a wipe and keeping cards in hand. To drop all that for another direction seems like a lot more work than necessary.
Both protecting and pumping a creature enough to kill by turn 5-6 is not viable.
Perhaps hexproof with flying enchant could work but again you're looking at lining up those 8 cards with 8 or so support cards and still be mana efficient... as well as survive fast decks chewing your face off.
Do you have a proposed list? What decks beat you and what list did you play with that got beat?
I've seen some people on youtube playing Merfolk and making play mistakes such as holding for card draw incessantly instead of attacking to get ahead. Did you play optimally for your build?
Just some thoughts. Glad you're taking up Standard and enjoying it.
Waters and Climb do different things, and are "do nothing" cards, so we can't run too many along with 4-6 non merfolk spells. I think it's best to choose one and leave the other in the sideboard, or cut it entirely. Otherwise, you must lower the number of non-creature spells in the main.
I must say Waters seems rather mediocre since we have access to Pioneer.
It's true that a list would let us see where your idea goes !
You should look at going for an unblockable build with Blossoming Defense and Spell Pierce. 4/2 might be the game 1 sweetspot.
4 Kumena’s Speaker
3 Mist-Cloaked Herald
3 Jade Bearer
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Deeproot Elite
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
3 Metallic Mimic
4 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
3 Spell Pierce
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Hashep Oasis
2 Forest
6 Islands
3 Naturalize
1 Spell Pierce
3 Essence Scatter
3 Revolutionary Rebuff
3 Negate
This is what I am hoping to try out at fnm. I went with a lower curve to fit the 20 land build to add a couple more spells. Last tournament I played was 20 years ago. I am sure the side board needs work and the main deck too.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be a great help.
Thanks
Tempest Caller really needs to be somewhere in the 75 at least x2 as well. Seafloor Oracle also should be considered especially with Mist cloaked and any creature mass Strat.
Good luck!
My cousin has been cleaning up with a 'go wide' merfolk approach.
Simililar to you except.
-4 Branchwalker
-3 jade bearer
-1 unsummon
+1 Mist-Cloaked Herald
+2 Blossoming Defense
+4 Jungle Pioneer
+1 metallic mimic
He has stomped every top teir deck at our shop.
I cut Merfolk Branchwalker and immediately noticed a change for the better. I found that she either just gave me a land and was a crappy body in the 2 drop slot that's already heavy or force me to tell my opponent my next move especially late game. I cut her in favor of more spells.
After looking at recent top 8's most decks play threats with 8-10 removal ***main***board*** so... If we can get our little creatures out and then protect them it quickly becomes game over. Sideboard is still tough. I have had trouble figuring out what to sideboard but I found mono red to be an easy matchup after -1 blossom, unsummon and spell pierce for Shaper's Sanctuary I draw so much off their removal spells and target abilities from their creatures that they can't keep up.
my build
4x Deeproot Elite
4x Jungleborn Pioneer
4x Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
4x Kumena's Speaker
4x Merfolk Mistbinder
4x Metallic Mimic
4x Silvergill Adept
1x One With the Wind
5x Forest
3x Hashep Oasis
5x Island
3x Unclaimed Territory
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Spell Pierce
4x Unsummon
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Tempest Caller
3 Shaper's Sanctuary
3 Essence Scatter
2 Naturalize
3 Negate
I found that U/W embalm is pretty nasty matchup because they can fumigate and shrug it off. It really makes me want to run River's Rebuke and at that rate Carnage Tyrant verse Scarab Control and maybe u/w approach.
Even mono red plays 28 creatures with 10 spells but they curve at 4 with half the draw potential.
The One With the Wind 1 of has been sorta interesting. Kumena is a shining star with Deeproot Elite. Getting in each turn with at least 1 creature while leaving a block force is strong and thus why flying is valuable as well. Hashep Oasis also can sometimes see things through but it's more I think a threat they will play around.
Ideas?
As much as I despise the card Heart of Kiran could be something to try. Merfolk doesn't want to attack all the time so tapping 2 to poke with it isn't a big deal.
I think blue mana does not work in your deck. 9 blue sources for 9 blue nonmerfolk spells in the main + 6 more in the sideboard is not enough.
11 feels like a bare minimum. With that many 3-drops + Oasis and the need to cast merfolk and leave protection up, adding 2 Islands could be a solution (-1 One With the Wind, -1 Unsummon).
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I'd probably run Aethersphere Harvester over Heart of Kiran. It's easier to crew with a small body and can block Glorybringer. Plus it can gain you some life mid game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Could be they don't want to deal with typing up their list on a phone?
I tried out a 20 land build but I mulligans a ton. Was it bad luck or common to get a lot of one land hands at 20 lands?
Why? Well, I did my usual 0:5 yesterday, feeling like that is "proper" for Merfolk strength in Standard.
Then I copied this list: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=26611&iddeck=209138
(except those 2 Nissas in the sideboard, they never did anything whenever I cast them, paper or online)
and I just 5:0-ed Mtgo Standard with it. Obsessions and Blossoms are exactly what I needed.
I was in every match even when I went to 5.
We have draft superstars like Defense, Boon and some 4 toughness dudes.
So I believe you.
We have other issues but red removal is not one of them.
But all I play against are Settle, Fumigate, Contempt and Disintegration, while not needing help against Hazored.
Wrong time for it, probably.
4 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
3 Metallic Mimic
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald
2 Seafloor Oracle
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Watertrap Weaver
2 Deeproot Waters
Instants
4 Unsummon
Lands
4 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
9 Island
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Baral's Expertise
2 Kopala, Warden of Waves
1 Naturalize
4 Negate
2 Seafloor Oracle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Watertrap Weaver
Any ideas on what match up 4 sea floor oracles is good in? Curious to see so many.
I've thought about including Sea Floor Oracle in my sideboard for control matchups, but ultimately I think we want our card engine's to be Kumena, Silvergill, and Nissa.
Been play testing quite a bit over the past month. Here's where I've landed.
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Deeproot Elite
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
4 Jungleborn Pioneer
3 Herald of Secret Streams
2 Nissa Steward of Elements
Instants 3
3 Unsummon
Lands 20
4 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
4 Island
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Hashep Oasis
3 Spell Pierce
3 Heroic Intervention
3 Naturalize
3 Shapers' Sanctuary
3 Silent Gravestone
Most notably, I think Nissa Steward of Elements must be in every fish maindeck right now. She is the engine that keeps us rolling into the mid-game when things go on too long. She can close games out that we're already winning, but most importantly she can help tremendously when trying to recover from a board wipe. She brings "card advantage engine" card count up to 10 (Kumena, Silvergill), allowing us to drop the over hyped Merfolk Branchwalker. This list has only 13 spells over 3 cmc, which made me feel comfortable dropping to 20 lands (though I think 21 or 22 is probably correct), as the deck can play a while on only 2-3 lands. Jungleborn Pioneer also has been a complete all-star for me, not only triggering Deeproot Elite and Metallic Mimic extra, but also coming in before or after Kumena makes for an easy tap 3: draw a card.
I've top 4'd every Standard Showdown (which is generally 20+ players and decks range from casual to tier 1) I've played since Rivals released and have only lost 1 round against Grixis Energy.
I'm coming back to Magic after a several year hiatus and I'm so happy to see my fish friends frolicking around standard again. I'm happy to talk card choices / matchups with yall.
Happy swimming!