I expect a bit more Artifact hate targeting Mardu, so going with a Flameblade Adept discard shell might be the better direction over a Vehicles oriented list. It's unfortunate that Key to the City is one of the better cards for that shell. However, I think it should be fine at least for Game 1. Siding Key out for Lightning Axe could be a good strategy postboard, since the other targets, Bomat Courier and Scrounger, are pretty poor targets for removal anyway. Chandra and Glorybringer give the deck the ability to go bigger. Hazoret is an option, maybe even for the sideboard. I can see it as being excellent against control.
ive been thinking about possibly going to a r/b madness deck with all the discard/cycle ability in this set. base it around olivia and bloodhall priest
I honestly don't see a madness build becoming more competitive than the artifact based build, but it could be fun to play.
Harsh Mentor is looking good, but honestly it seems like the only obvious staple we're getting from Amonkhet. Combat Celebrant I'm reserved on, but will be testing. I also have my eye on some sideboard options, Never/Return, Lay Bare the Heart, Dispossess, By Force mostly as sideboard options. Tormenting Voice could be a main deck option for mid/late game fuel, but idk.
I'm currently running the typical artifact based build with two Chandras. I'm considering removing the planeswalker though, she has great utility in a deck that is more midrange. She doesn't seem to be that imposing during most games and sits in my hand until the right opportunity, often coming out as a 4-mana burn spells to clear a troublesome blocker. The only games where I'm eager to cast Chandra seem like I've run out of steam/resources by that point, and I'm unable to protect her long enough to gain real advantage. Has anyone else running the fast artifact-based build come to this conclusion and dropped Chandra, or relegated her to the sideboard. How is everyone usually playing the planeswalker in their decks?
Yea. I been playing it a little bit on cockatrice. It sparked my interest as I play BR aggro currently. Im not 100% on it as it folds kinda hard to a few removal spells without the hazoret. It might be a little TOO all in on the discard plan.
I'm currently running the typical artifact based build with two Chandras. I'm considering removing the planeswalker though, she has great utility in a deck that is more midrange. She doesn't seem to be that imposing during most games and sits in my hand until the right opportunity, often coming out as a 4-mana burn spells to clear a troublesome blocker. The only games where I'm eager to cast Chandra seem like I've run out of steam/resources by that point, and I'm unable to protect her long enough to gain real advantage. Has anyone else running the fast artifact-based build come to this conclusion and dropped Chandra, or relegated her to the sideboard. How is everyone usually playing the planeswalker in their decks?
I recently put 3 balista in the deck and still have the 2 chandras. I love the card. The card is the bees knees and I havent even kinda thought about taking it out. It gives us a nice bridge in the midgame if they are able to drag it to there, which usually happens.
i run ballistas also in my deck and chandra.
2 hope of ghiraphur
4 inventors apprentice
4 scrapheaps
4 forerunner of slaughter
4 weldfast engineer
3 walking ballista
3 fatal push
4 unlicensed disintegration
4 shock
2 fleetwheels
2 heart of kiran
2 chandra torch of defiance
do you guys think canyon slough is a card to grab now if the price is right or just hold out and see if we get something better in the next set since we still have smoldering marsh?
also what about by force? a cheaper release the gremlins minus the 2/2 token. im actually slowly becoming a fan of bloodrage brawler.
i run ballistas also in my deck and chandra.
2 hope of ghiraphur
4 inventors apprentice
4 scrapheaps
4 forerunner of slaughter
4 weldfast engineer
3 walking ballista
3 fatal push
4 unlicensed disintegration
4 shock
2 fleetwheels
2 heart of kiran
2 chandra torch of defiance
Your list is a good bit like mine. I play 3 hearts, 2 fatal push, only 1 shock. I play bomat couriers still because the card is been pretty awesome for me most of the time. But I can totally understand cutting them.
do you guys think canyon slough is a card to grab now if the price is right or just hold out and see if we get something better in the next set since we still have smoldering marsh?
Its fine but the other 2 dual lands that we currently use are just better in almost every single case.
EHHHHH. I wish monored was back but it just doesnt have the reach that it used to have in standard. Standards burn cards are pretty lack luster IMO and not very fast. I think for now we have to stick to some sort of BR or GR deck to be worth a damn in the current standard metagame.
Bone Picker looks like it could be sneaky good. As Neal Oliver pointed out, a 3/2 flyer for one has dominated standard in the past. He suggests the following as an initial draft of an aggro deck:
I don't like the Neonate plan. A 3/2 flyer is good but I don't think it's worth 2-for-1-ing yourself. I'd be more interested in Dread Wanderer. Applies more early pressure and has a decent chance of dying in a trade. Also gives pseudo-value on discard.
This deck really feels the loss of Smuggler's Copter but I think the basic plan of pressure + removal + Bone Picker is a good one. The constrictor matchup could get rough, though.
why not add key to the city, bloodhall priest and maybe an olivia?
Because I want to have a heavy emphasis on early pressure. In particular flooding the board with one and two drops that hit above their weight class. With 8 of the 12 "discard value" cards working by later reanimation you can jam Bloodrage Brawler with no fear and cash in early Bomats for big value. I run key in the sideboard as anti-Ishkanah tech--it's good inevitability but bad for pace.
After jamming a couple queues the four mana for Hazoret has been a little awkward. Not sure if I've been a little unlucky or if I should switch to something like Aethersphere Harvester. It's possible Bontu is better. He interacts nicely with Dread Wanderer. The sac is instant speed, so you can sac for damage through blockers as well.
Dread Wanderer is sweet. Reminds me a lot of Gravecrawler, but it doesn't force you to play a lot of zombies.
Almost considered ornithopter. Cartouche seems good but maybe I just want built to smash? Also am I correct that Flameblade gets a huge buff if you crack a Bomat mid-combat?
Bigger to use Glorybringer, He of the Croco-Snout:
I love a good all-in deck but from my initial forays into standard I don't think smashing in on the ground is a great place to be right now. Also Fatal Push on the unstable mutation is going to be brutal.
Bloodrage Brawler just got stonewalled way too much. Also, the lack of flexibility with the discard could be punishing. Often when you drop the Heir it just eats a fatal push or whatever right away, which is a perfectly reasonable 1 for 1. When the brawler gets pushed it really hurts. The brawler also tends to get chumped a lot. It might be better in an all in madness deck with Key to the City.
The Bone Picker and Heir to Falkenrath put a nice evasive clock on the opponent. The removal suite clears out blockers and helps win the race. Dread Wanderer is a great early attacker and late game works with the Scrounger to grind through removal. Bomat Courier is a removal magnet that refills your hand if it goes unchecked. Sometimes you get to live the dream and crack it into a Bone Picker or two.
Hazoret has been sweet. The 23rd land helps keep him from getting stuck in hand and it provides almost a Gideon-power effect between the indestructible attacker and the reach. I had Chandra in there as a hedge but I think Hazoret might just be better. Bontu was too much work to get going (though I did run into a sweet BW aristocrats deck, so he might have a home in standard).
It's possible the mana should be slanted towards black. The only two colored mana cards are Fiery Temper and Chandra but the only colored one drop is black. I don't know.
I want to try out Glorybringer in the side. I've held off a bit because of the casting cost but the effect is so strong.
The deck lives or dies in close games on how good Hazoret is. Some decks can't kill it. Some casually kill it with their usual removal. He's a big haymaker that can swing lost games but he also dies to Grasp of Darkness. Also Dark Salvation.
Glorybringer is great in a midrange grindfest but not so hot against heavy control decks. A 4/4 haste flyer is decent but it's not shooting down Torrential Gearhulks.
Ishkanah is a monster beating. Now that copy cat isn't hating the spider out of standard she's back to ruin aggro decks' days. Similarly, Liliana, the Last Hope is awful. This is where Copter is most dearly missed, IMO.
I do think there's something to the evasion + removal + burn plan. I'm not sure what the best variation on that theme looks like, though. It might involve replacing the Bomat Couriers.
I like the all in attitude with main deck Night Market Lookout and a curve that tops out at three permanents that cost 3 mana. Cut // Ribbons looks sweet as a finisher. I'm a little skeptical about the BG matchup and in general it seems like you're going to run into some board stalls.
ETA: One change I might make would be to replace the 3 drops (2 Yahenni and a Liliana) with Aethersphere Harvesters. It plays well with Night Market Lookout, meshes with the lifelink theme, gets in evasive damage, and makes Unlicensed Disintegration a little better.
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Matched up against Naya Aetherworks (2-1), Mono Black Zombies (2-0), RW Exert (2-1), Bant Ramp (2-0), and BG Snake (1-2). I won game one of Round 5 but was kept from the 5-0 by egregious mana screw followed by a hand that wasn't quite good enough to beat two snakes. Overall thoughts:
Walking Ballista is great. It's a beater when you need it and a ping when you need that. Solid Bone Picker enabler as well.
Harvester was also great. Racing with harvester + Aetherborn + Lookout is just silly. I never wanted Yahenni or Liliana over it.
Cut / Ribbons was better than I expected. Kills most things and then gives you a nice bit of reach at the end. Again, great for racing.
Supernatural Stamina is amazing in creature battles. Works nicely with the Bone Picker.
Sideboard was either customizing the removal package or pulling the lookouts for matches with early blockers. I'd like to fit a little more discard in there.
Overall I think this list is at a similar level to where the RB Copter madness list used to be. It puts resilient pressure on the opponent and disrupts the other side of the table. It can be beaten but it takes a good draw from a good deck.
1 CMC
2 CMC
3 CMC
4+ CMC
Other Cards
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Bomat Courier
4 Harsh Mentor
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bloodfury Militant
2 Pia Nalaar
4 Key to the City
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintigration
Lands (22)
4 Canyon Slough
4 Foreboding Ruins
4 Smouldering Marsh
10 Mountains
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Glorybringer
4 Lightning Axe
3 Release the Gremlins
4 Transgress the Mind
I expect a bit more Artifact hate targeting Mardu, so going with a Flameblade Adept discard shell might be the better direction over a Vehicles oriented list. It's unfortunate that Key to the City is one of the better cards for that shell. However, I think it should be fine at least for Game 1. Siding Key out for Lightning Axe could be a good strategy postboard, since the other targets, Bomat Courier and Scrounger, are pretty poor targets for removal anyway. Chandra and Glorybringer give the deck the ability to go bigger. Hazoret is an option, maybe even for the sideboard. I can see it as being excellent against control.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Harsh Mentor is looking good, but honestly it seems like the only obvious staple we're getting from Amonkhet. Combat Celebrant I'm reserved on, but will be testing. I also have my eye on some sideboard options, Never/Return, Lay Bare the Heart, Dispossess, By Force mostly as sideboard options. Tormenting Voice could be a main deck option for mid/late game fuel, but idk.
// 27 Creature
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Pale Rider of Trostad
4 Bloodrage Brawler
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
// 21 Land
4 Foreboding Ruins
1 Smoldering Marsh
8 Mountain
8 Swamp
4 Alms of the Vein
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Are you in FOS? This deck has exactly the same cards as a deck I brewed up. Crazy haha.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
I recently put 3 balista in the deck and still have the 2 chandras. I love the card. The card is the bees knees and I havent even kinda thought about taking it out. It gives us a nice bridge in the midgame if they are able to drag it to there, which usually happens.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
2 hope of ghiraphur
4 inventors apprentice
4 scrapheaps
4 forerunner of slaughter
4 weldfast engineer
3 walking ballista
3 fatal push
4 unlicensed disintegration
4 shock
2 fleetwheels
2 heart of kiran
2 chandra torch of defiance
C Long Live Eldrazi C
also what about by force? a cheaper release the gremlins minus the 2/2 token. im actually slowly becoming a fan of bloodrage brawler.
Your list is a good bit like mine. I play 3 hearts, 2 fatal push, only 1 shock. I play bomat couriers still because the card is been pretty awesome for me most of the time. But I can totally understand cutting them.
Its fine but the other 2 dual lands that we currently use are just better in almost every single case.
EHHHHH. I wish monored was back but it just doesnt have the reach that it used to have in standard. Standards burn cards are pretty lack luster IMO and not very fast. I think for now we have to stick to some sort of BR or GR deck to be worth a damn in the current standard metagame.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
4 x Canyon Slough
4 x Foreboding Ruins
2 x Smoldering Marsh
7 x Mountain
3 x Swamp
4 x Insolent Neonate
4 x Bomat Courier
4 x Soul-Scar Mage
4 x Scrapheap Scrounger
4 x Bone Picker
4 x Bloodrage Brawler
1 x Weldfast Engineer
2 x Heart of Kiran
4 x Fiery Temper
4 x Fatal Push
4 x Unlicensed Disintegration
My initial thoughts:
2 Smoldering Marsh
9 Mountain
7 Swamp
4 Bomat Courier
4 Bloodrage Brawler
4 Heir to Falkenrath
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bone Picker
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Temper
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
This deck really feels the loss of Smuggler's Copter but I think the basic plan of pressure + removal + Bone Picker is a good one. The constrictor matchup could get rough, though.
After jamming a couple queues the four mana for Hazoret has been a little awkward. Not sure if I've been a little unlucky or if I should switch to something like Aethersphere Harvester. It's possible Bontu is better. He interacts nicely with Dread Wanderer. The sac is instant speed, so you can sac for damage through blockers as well.
Dread Wanderer is sweet. Reminds me a lot of Gravecrawler, but it doesn't force you to play a lot of zombies.
No black in these decks so hopefully you don't shun me..
Wanted to build a 1-drop deck with unstable mutation, seems good with menace.
3 Heart of Ghirapur
3 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Flameblade Adept
3 Bloodrage Brawler
4 Fiery Temper
4 Consuming Fervor
2 Cartouche of Zeal
1 Throne of the God-pharaoh
18 Mountain
Almost considered ornithopter. Cartouche seems good but maybe I just want built to smash? Also am I correct that Flameblade gets a huge buff if you crack a Bomat mid-combat?
Bigger to use Glorybringer, He of the Croco-Snout:
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Kari-Zev, Skywaifu
4 Harsh Mentor
4 Hanweir Garrison
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Glorybringer
3 Shock
3 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
2 Magma Spray
20 Mountain
Not sure about Hazoret in that list, or the removal/burn suite. Let me know what you guys think.
I've been pretty happy with this 60:
2 Smoldering Marsh
9 Mountain
8 Swamp
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Bomat Courier
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Bone Picker
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Temper
4 Fatal Push
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Lightning Axe
Bloodrage Brawler just got stonewalled way too much. Also, the lack of flexibility with the discard could be punishing. Often when you drop the Heir it just eats a fatal push or whatever right away, which is a perfectly reasonable 1 for 1. When the brawler gets pushed it really hurts. The brawler also tends to get chumped a lot. It might be better in an all in madness deck with Key to the City.
The Bone Picker and Heir to Falkenrath put a nice evasive clock on the opponent. The removal suite clears out blockers and helps win the race. Dread Wanderer is a great early attacker and late game works with the Scrounger to grind through removal. Bomat Courier is a removal magnet that refills your hand if it goes unchecked. Sometimes you get to live the dream and crack it into a Bone Picker or two.
Hazoret has been sweet. The 23rd land helps keep him from getting stuck in hand and it provides almost a Gideon-power effect between the indestructible attacker and the reach. I had Chandra in there as a hedge but I think Hazoret might just be better. Bontu was too much work to get going (though I did run into a sweet BW aristocrats deck, so he might have a home in standard).
It's possible the mana should be slanted towards black. The only two colored mana cards are Fiery Temper and Chandra but the only colored one drop is black. I don't know.
I want to try out Glorybringer in the side. I've held off a bit because of the casting cost but the effect is so strong.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113178
Smuggler's Copter would be amazing in that deck.
ETA: One change I might make would be to replace the 3 drops (2 Yahenni and a Liliana) with Aethersphere Harvesters. It plays well with Night Market Lookout, meshes with the lifelink theme, gets in evasive damage, and makes Unlicensed Disintegration a little better.
4 flameblade adept
2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 Bloodrage Brawler
2 Furyblade Vampire
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
1 Firemantle mage
2 Hanweir Garrison
2 Ahn-crop Crasher
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Fiery Temper
2 Cartouche of zeal
2 Insult // Injury
2 Cathartic reunion
2 Tormenting voice
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
4 Foreboding Ruins
2 Smoldering Marsh
2 Aether Hub
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Night Market Lookout
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Walking Ballista
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Bone Picker
3 Fatal Push
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Cut // Ribbons
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Scarab Feast
2 Lay Bare the Heart
2 Supernatural Stamina
1 Grasp of Darkness
3 Magma Spray
1 Ruinous Path
3 Key to the City
Matched up against Naya Aetherworks (2-1), Mono Black Zombies (2-0), RW Exert (2-1), Bant Ramp (2-0), and BG Snake (1-2). I won game one of Round 5 but was kept from the 5-0 by egregious mana screw followed by a hand that wasn't quite good enough to beat two snakes. Overall thoughts:
Overall I think this list is at a similar level to where the RB Copter madness list used to be. It puts resilient pressure on the opponent and disrupts the other side of the table. It can be beaten but it takes a good draw from a good deck.
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Furyblade Vampire
3x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Bomat Courier
4x Falkenrath Gorger
4x Flameblade Adept
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Village Messenger
4x Fiery Temper
3x Invigorated Rampage
Enchantments
4x Consuming Fervor
Lands
18x Mountain
4x Sweltering Suns
3x Ahn-Crop Crasher
2x Aethersphere Harvester
4x Magma Spray
2x Kari Zev's Expertise
Current competitive record: 12-3
Strong Matchups:
Mardu
BG Constrictor
Non R Control
Marvel
UW Control
Colossus
Even Matchups:
W/x Humans
Zombies
UB Control
Weak Matchups:
UR Control
Mono Black Aggro