If you're looking for a powerful interactive deck that's not black or red, this is it!
EDIT May 19: I am having a TON of fun with this deck! You draw tons of cards, play lots of creatures and interact powerfully with your opponent. Try it and see!
This deck feels like a bigger Bant Coco. Tons of card advantage, tons of advantage on the battlefield. Aggro players find they can no longer attack, and control players find they can't effectively control. You will overwhelm the opposition in card advantage and mana effectiveness, and can play on their turn to effectively dominate the game.
Every turn - yours and theirs - you get to cast a spell for free according to the number of counters you have. This means casting 3 spells instead of 1.
This list is just my ideas. It's a great deck when you don't draw As Foretold, and a broken deck if you draw one early.
Nissa and Vizier also do the cheating cards in trick. They let you look at the top of your library and decide to play directly, or use a clue or Duskwatch or Tamiyo to draw it.
After a day of playing, I basically pushed the Renegades to main to help deal with aggro (AND, it's another free cast the turn after As Foretold resolves.) But other than shifting numbers a bit, I feel this REALLY works as is.
If you like drawing lots of cards and casting tons of spells, you gotta try this!
It offers crazy plays like a turn 6, cast a Tireless Tracker, pass to them they cast Radiant Flames, I respond Avacyn, they Essence Scatter and I Spell Queller. Yes, 11 mana of spells cast on turn 6. And of course I have 15 points of Beatdown at that moment and they are tapped out.
Or we can play control against an aggro or midrange deck: casting cheap blockers, removal and counters until eventually all the cards we accumulate, and the removal wrecks them.
After a day of playing, I basically pushed the Renegades to main to help deal with aggro (AND, it's another free cast the turn after As Foretold resolves.) But other than shifting numbers a bit, I feel this REALLY works as is.
If you like drawing lots of cards and casting tons of spells, you gotta try this!
It offers crazy plays like a turn 6, cast a Tireless Tracker, pass to them they cast Radiant Flames, I respond Avacyn, they Essence Scatter and I Spell Queller. Yes, 11 mana of spells cast on turn 6. And of course I have 15 points of Beatdown at that moment and they are tapped out.
Or we can play control against an aggro or midrange deck: casting cheap blockers, removal and counters until eventually all the cards we accumulate, and the removal wrecks them.
I am very excite for this deck to be a real deck. Love that durdling and value.
How is Nissa, Steward of Elements shaking out for you? I don't deny she's powerful and in color, but it seems like you'd be better off with more maindeck interaction (more counterspells or removal, most likely). Only 21 creatures doesn't feel like enough to reliably eek value off of her 0.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Nissa is a mixed bag. The 0 is unlikely, but you *can* set it up with the scry 2. Scry 2 is fine and going +2 every turn can be quite the diversion. If you can get her to 6, (lategame, just cast for 8) those 2 lands are deadly. BUT, she doesn't defend herself very well, and I take her out against every aggro match. I'm open to new suggestions. One thing the deck wants is more powerful plays once you get to the later game. Nissa does that with her ultimate, but I'm open to other suggestions.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Current iteration, running 23 creatures, including the new green Vizier of the Menagerie. But no Nissa. That Vizier gets pretty silly in here. Being able to cast creatures off the top, including using As Foretold to cast them, gets you a lot of action. Effectively it represents free card draw every time you use it.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
You cannot. X must be 0 if you aren't paying the mana cost.
It can be 0 but you have to have Oath of Ajani in-play. Then it is basically X+1. So you basically tell your opponent your casting it for X and then reduce the cost by 1.So cast on turn 3 for four to get 2 counters and tick up to 4. Then get a free 4 drop on turn 4 value.
Although if you cast an X spell for free the cost of X is 0. Unless you are coping a sell with X and casting the copy then the copy has the same amount of X as the original spell.
Simple right.
Oath of Gideon works. I would like to call a judge about Oath of Ajani. I was pretty sure you are required to choose 0 for X if you aren't paying the mana cost.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
You cannot. X must be 0 if you aren't paying the mana cost.
It can be 0 but you have to have Oath of Ajani in-play. Then it is basically X+1. So you basically tell your opponent your casting it for X and then reduce the cost by 1.So cast on turn 3 for four to get 2 counters and tick up to 4. Then get a free 4 drop on turn 4 value.
Although if you cast an X spell for free the cost of X is 0. Unless you are coping a sell with X and casting the copy then the copy has the same amount of X as the original spell.
Simple right.
Nope. 100% does not work.
you do not get to choose the value of X for spells you don't pay the mana cost of.
reducing a spell's cost.. for a spell you don't pay for.. does nothing. Only works with Oath of Gideon.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
Also.. how are you getting a board state turn 3.. of oath of ajani and as foretold.. and cast Nissa that turn 3?
you aren't. no t1 mana accelerators in standard. the only part that would work is Oath t2, Nissa t3 for 4 cmc declared, 3 paid. Nissa enters with 2, gains 2 by scry, then turn 4.. you could cast up to a 4 cmc creature for free.
but here you are turn 4.. with.. maybe 1 creature on the board, and no interaction for 4 turns. believe you've lost to aggro.
In other news, with copycat officially still in standard, I am looking at this shell as most-likely-to-succeed for the upcoming standard. The reason is there's a heavy dose of instant stuff, and we have mana cheating going on here. This means we can tap out to play a spell, AND have an Essence Scatter ready to cast if they cast a Felidar Guardian. For example.
Now that we know the official configuration of standard, I think it's time to test and tune. We'll see how much permanent-based hate is needed and how much spells can make things work.
There are strategies to how this game is approached. If I am playing against aggro, I don't drop As Foretold on turn 3 if they are beating me down. This deck HAS interaction like counterspells and removal, and also has creatures who can block. We're not just going to sit back and do nothing. Nissa is not the card for the aggro matchup, nor is Oath of Ajani. (Oath of Gid is a bit better because it sprouts blockers, but still not what we need.)
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0.This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
Well you cast it for four only paying 3 on turn 3. I should of have been more accurate. But you are right if you only had a forest and a hmm, Irrigated Farmland in play then on turn 3 with no other lands and an oath of ajhani in play you could cast this card for 3 which is technically not free but it depends on how you look at it and it would have 1 loyalty counter so +2 go to three.
Now what happens if this card gets spell-quelled and you kill the creature dose the sell remember it old cast cost no you get to cast it for free and have to cast is for free so even if you have the oath in play you are choising to cast it for 0.
Also Rulings
7/13/2016 For spells with Variable Colorless in their mana costs, use the value chosen for X to determine if the spell’s converted mana cost is 4 or less.
So, this card can be quelled if you cast it for X of 2 or less.
Oath of Gideon works. I would like to call a judge about Oath of Ajani. I was pretty sure you are required to choose 0 for X if you aren't paying the mana cost.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0.This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect. #
So you have to say the you are casting the spell for X of 1 and then the cost get reduced but the stated cost was 1 so you get 1 loyalty counter, even if you are not spending any mana you still technically cast the spell for 1. Unless you stated that you were casting it for 0. The it is 0.
So I built and tested this deck. I've only played it against two people but it did horribly both times. Both people were playing G/B variations. The creatures we played were easily dealt with with their removal. Playing and top decking As Foretold felt kind of bad. The only saving grace was the enchantments preboard but even then their threats were so diversified that removing one thing didn't really matter.
Oath of Gideon works. I would like to call a judge about Oath of Ajani. I was pretty sure you are required to choose 0 for X if you aren't paying the mana cost.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0.This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect. #
So you have to say the you are casting the spell for X of 1 and then the cost get reduced but the stated cost was 1 so you get 1 loyalty counter, even if you are not spending any mana you still technically cast the spell for 1. Unless you stated that you were casting it for 0. The it is 0.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but you can check the Amonkhet Release Notes here. I've bolded and underlined the relevant ruling, which also gives a concrete example.
Quote from Amonkhet Release Notes »
As Foretold
2U
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a time counter on As Foretold.
Once each turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana cost for a spell you cast with converted mana cost X or less, where X is the number of time counters on As Foretold.
If you cast a card for an alternative cost of 0, you can't pay any other alternative costs, such as emerge costs. You can, however, pay additional costs. If the card has any mandatory additional costs, such as that of Tormenting Voice, you must pay those to cast the card.
A card's converted mana cost is determined solely by the mana symbols printed in its upper right corner. The converted mana cost is the total amount of mana in that cost, regardless of color. For example, a card with mana cost 1UU has converted mana cost 3. Ignore any alternative costs, additional costs, cost increases, or cost reductions that could apply to it. A card with no mana cost has a converted mana cost of 0.
If you're casting a split card, only the converted mana cost of the half you're casting is compared to the number of time counters on As Foretold.
If the card has X in its mana cost, you must choose 0 as the value of X when casting it for another cost that doesn't include X. For example, if there are five time counters on As Foretold and you choose to use its effect to cast Pull from Tomorrow, X must be 0. X can't be 2, even though the spell's converted mana cost would be 4.
If you control multiple As Foretolds, you may cast one spell for each of them paying 0.
All counters with the same name are indistinguishable from other counters with that name. Cards from the Time Spiral block that interact with time counters will interact with As Foretold.
Good grief Hvir. That's been established 4 times over already! There's no debate here.
Yeah, Grunbeld. Now that Felidar's out of the format, this needs adjustment. I'm going to start mith more removal (Declaration in Stone) to get rid of the big creatures in GB, and probably maindeck Narnham Renegade. Also Essence Scatter seem quite good at present. I think I'll cut Nissa as well because the deck want to stall until the later game. This should be more effective I hope:
So I've played with this deck a couple of times. I really love it. Part of the issue I'm facing is that it just has a hard time dealing with Torrential Gearhulk. What's the plan against control, and if there is a control deck in the meta (4x every decent 2/3 mana counterspell, 4x Torrential Gearhulk) how does the deck shift to improve? A miser's copy of Gideon? Anything else that makes sense?
Glad you like it. It needs work, but As Foretold is so powerful, I figure there has to be a way to really make it shine.
Against control, run all counterspells (not Essence Scatter probably) and cast out and everything that draws cards. The deck may need to adjust to make it work. More blue lands to support Disallow. More planeswalkers also makes sense. Dovin is a good idea. Gideon is good.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
So I played the 'new' version of the deck against the same people. It did feel a lot better with the censor, narnam renegades, and essence scatter. Tamiyo felt meh because I was never in a safe enough board position where I could plus her. I always used her to keep my opponents creatures tapped and I feel like this would come up more against mardu vehicles, which I feel like would be relevant for at least game day with the results of today's SCG Open. Also with Mardu Vehicles back on the rise, we could see an increase in U/R Emerge / U/R Visions. What should I do against that deck?
Nothing wrong with casting Tamiyo and going -2 to tap Gideon and Heart of Kiran. Next turn you plus her and target 2 of your creatures, attack at Gideon. Maybe they don't connect but you draw 2 cards and killed some creatures. (Alt plan: -2 again and attack with all their blockers tapped.) And now you can cast more stuff. Turn after if they attack and kill Tamiyo, that's great: You gained 2 cards and a ton of life in the interaction.
Elder Deepfiend likes to tap stuff down. It's a good thing you have flash creatures and instants. If he taps your lands, you use the mana to cast something. If they Kozilek's Return, Avacyn is an option. Or else some things die and you get a new creature after it resolves. Fevered Visions I don't necessarily see being a problem. Most of your extra card draw is optional stuff attached to creatures. So with Visions they give you extra cards and you don't have to bother with your own card advantage. Then once As Foretold hits, you can very easily empty your hand and say thanks for the extra cards.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
The real power of this deck lies in the fact that no one really runs enchantment removal plus you have great answers for both aggro and control.
Have you considered Dusk // Dawn instead of Fumigate most of your main-board creatures could be put back into your hand for a second round of spell-quelling, Recruiting, investigating and revolting. Plus duck hits a full turn sooner I don't know how important the live gain has been in the match-ups. Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier can be even better poast side boared with selfless spirit. Still have you considered running Approach of the Second Sun. It could just be a fun add in but I have seen this card steel games. So if you want a different cards to use in control match-ups of Approach of the Second Sun could work.
It could also be put in a different version of As Foretold - Free Stuff Midrange
This deck looks solid and it should be able to fight both aggro and control. Plus only 6 cards in the list rotate with Hour of Devastation.
Also if you wouldn't mind I would love some input on my Abzon of Amonkhet deck list.
In general, I want to avoid high-costed cards because they don't work well with As Foretold or the deck's general plan of casting lots of cheap spells. This leads me away from Approach of the Second Sun.
I like the opportunity of split cards because "Cast" works for both halves. Sadly, not many of the available cards are exciting. Maybe other options will be good if we change the deck colors from UGW to Uxy or can find a mana scheme that will enable a fourth color.
Of these, Prepare/Fight might be okay, but i don't have a lot of fighting creatures. Though I could have if I change which creatures I run.
I do like Dusk//Dawn a little, and am currently testing 2 Fumigate and 2 Dusk in side. Dusk is situational, while Dawn - I only wish it could bring back the bigger guns like Tracker and Vizier.
Commit seems okay, Memory is expensive but would be great to refuel. (I'd been contemplating cards like Rishkar's Expertise and Seasons Past, but maybe this is more suitable.)
Mouth is mediocre and Feed will hardly do anything. Spring // Mind seems meh.
Selfless Spirit.. seems great with an Avacyn plan or a Dusk/Dawn plan.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
EDIT May 19: I am having a TON of fun with this deck! You draw tons of cards, play lots of creatures and interact powerfully with your opponent. Try it and see!
This deck feels like a bigger Bant Coco. Tons of card advantage, tons of advantage on the battlefield. Aggro players find they can no longer attack, and control players find they can't effectively control. You will overwhelm the opposition in card advantage and mana effectiveness, and can play on their turn to effectively dominate the game.
This list is just my ideas. It's a great deck when you don't draw As Foretold, and a broken deck if you draw one early.
There are so many other cards to consider here.
4 Spell Queller
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Vizier of the Menagerie
2 Archangel Avacyn
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Void Grafter
1 Manglehorn
4 Narnam Renegade
Enchantment
3 As Foretold
2 Cast Out
2 Negate
Land
3 Botanical Sanctum
1 Fortified Village
3 Forest
2 Irrigated Farmland
4 Island
2 Lumbering Falls
3 Plains
2 Prairie Stream
2 Scattered Groves
Planeswalker
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
2 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Manglehorn
3 Dusk // Dawn
4 Selfless Spirit
2 Void Shatter
4 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Ajani Unyielding
Lots of Cards
To feed As Foretold Oath of Nissa,Thraben Inspector, Duskwatch Recruiter, Tireless Tracker, Tamiyo, Field Researcher, Nissa, Steward of the Elements, Vizier of the Menagerie and cycle lands all do the "more cards" thing.
Nissa and Vizier also do the cheating cards in trick. They let you look at the top of your library and decide to play directly, or use a clue or Duskwatch or Tamiyo to draw it.
Flash
We also have cards to cast on their turn: Spell Queller, Void Grafter, Archangel Avacyn, Stasis Snare, Cast Out fill this duty.
Sideboard
Narnam Renegade to solve the newly popular big-stuff aggro matchup. Manglehorn for artifacts.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
If you like drawing lots of cards and casting tons of spells, you gotta try this!
It offers crazy plays like a turn 6, cast a Tireless Tracker, pass to them they cast Radiant Flames, I respond Avacyn, they Essence Scatter and I Spell Queller. Yes, 11 mana of spells cast on turn 6. And of course I have 15 points of Beatdown at that moment and they are tapped out.
Or we can play control against an aggro or midrange deck: casting cheap blockers, removal and counters until eventually all the cards we accumulate, and the removal wrecks them.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
I am very excite for this deck to be a real deck. Love that durdling and value.
How is Nissa, Steward of Elements shaking out for you? I don't deny she's powerful and in color, but it seems like you'd be better off with more maindeck interaction (more counterspells or removal, most likely). Only 21 creatures doesn't feel like enough to reliably eek value off of her 0.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
It can be 0 but you have to have Oath of Ajani in-play. Then it is basically X+1. So you basically tell your opponent your casting it for X and then reduce the cost by 1.So cast on turn 3 for four to get 2 counters and tick up to 4. Then get a free 4 drop on turn 4 value.
Although if you cast an X spell for free the cost of X is 0. Unless you are coping a sell with X and casting the copy then the copy has the same amount of X as the original spell.
Simple right.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Nope. 100% does not work.
you do not get to choose the value of X for spells you don't pay the mana cost of.
reducing a spell's cost.. for a spell you don't pay for.. does nothing. Only works with Oath of Gideon.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
Also.. how are you getting a board state turn 3.. of oath of ajani and as foretold.. and cast Nissa that turn 3?
you aren't. no t1 mana accelerators in standard. the only part that would work is Oath t2, Nissa t3 for 4 cmc declared, 3 paid. Nissa enters with 2, gains 2 by scry, then turn 4.. you could cast up to a 4 cmc creature for free.
but here you are turn 4.. with.. maybe 1 creature on the board, and no interaction for 4 turns. believe you've lost to aggro.
Now that we know the official configuration of standard, I think it's time to test and tune. We'll see how much permanent-based hate is needed and how much spells can make things work.
There are strategies to how this game is approached. If I am playing against aggro, I don't drop As Foretold on turn 3 if they are beating me down. This deck HAS interaction like counterspells and removal, and also has creatures who can block. We're not just going to sit back and do nothing. Nissa is not the card for the aggro matchup, nor is Oath of Ajani. (Oath of Gid is a bit better because it sprouts blockers, but still not what we need.)
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
Well you cast it for four only paying 3 on turn 3. I should of have been more accurate. But you are right if you only had a forest and a hmm, Irrigated Farmland in play then on turn 3 with no other lands and an oath of ajhani in play you could cast this card for 3 which is technically not free but it depends on how you look at it and it would have 1 loyalty counter so +2 go to three.
Now what happens if this card gets spell-quelled and you kill the creature dose the sell remember it old cast cost no you get to cast it for free and have to cast is for free so even if you have the oath in play you are choising to cast it for 0.
Also Rulings
7/13/2016 For spells with Variable Colorless in their mana costs, use the value chosen for X to determine if the spell’s converted mana cost is 4 or less.
So, this card can be quelled if you cast it for X of 2 or less.
107.3b If a player is casting a spell that has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of X isn’t defined by the text of that spell, and an effect lets that player cast that spell while paying neither its mana cost nor an alternative cost that includes X, then the only legal choice for X is 0. This doesn’t apply to effects that only reduce a cost, even if they reduce it to zero. See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect. #
So you have to say the you are casting the spell for X of 1 and then the cost get reduced but the stated cost was 1 so you get 1 loyalty counter, even if you are not spending any mana you still technically cast the spell for 1. Unless you stated that you were casting it for 0. The it is 0.
Nissa and other X spells are not great with As Foretold. Other X spells are also not great with Nissa.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
casting a x variable spell for free, never allows you to select a value for x.
Otherwise they are repeatedly posting.. saying something that is a generally understood principle of cost reductions and X spells.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but you can check the Amonkhet Release Notes here. I've bolded and underlined the relevant ruling, which also gives a concrete example.
Yeah, Grunbeld. Now that Felidar's out of the format, this needs adjustment. I'm going to start mith more removal (Declaration in Stone) to get rid of the big creatures in GB, and probably maindeck Narnham Renegade. Also Essence Scatter seem quite good at present. I think I'll cut Nissa as well because the deck want to stall until the later game. This should be more effective I hope:
4x Botanical Sanctum
4x Forest
4x Fortified Village
2x Irrigated Farmland
2x Lumbering Falls
4x Plains
2x Prairie Stream
2x Scattered Groves
Enchantment (7)
3x As Foretold
2x Cast Out
2x Stasis Snare
2x Archangel Avacyn
3x Duskwatch Recruiter
4x Narnam Renegade
4x Spell Queller
4x Thraben Inspector
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Vizier of the Menagerie
Instant (6)
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Censor
2x Essence Scatter
Planeswalker (2)
2x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Disallow
2x Essence Scatter
2x Fumigate
2x Manglehorn
2x Negate
2x Selfless Spirit
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Against control, run all counterspells (not Essence Scatter probably) and cast out and everything that draws cards. The deck may need to adjust to make it work. More blue lands to support Disallow. More planeswalkers also makes sense. Dovin is a good idea. Gideon is good.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Elder Deepfiend likes to tap stuff down. It's a good thing you have flash creatures and instants. If he taps your lands, you use the mana to cast something. If they Kozilek's Return, Avacyn is an option. Or else some things die and you get a new creature after it resolves. Fevered Visions I don't necessarily see being a problem. Most of your extra card draw is optional stuff attached to creatures. So with Visions they give you extra cards and you don't have to bother with your own card advantage. Then once As Foretold hits, you can very easily empty your hand and say thanks for the extra cards.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Have you considered Dusk // Dawn instead of Fumigate most of your main-board creatures could be put back into your hand for a second round of spell-quelling, Recruiting, investigating and revolting. Plus duck hits a full turn sooner I don't know how important the live gain has been in the match-ups.
Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier can be even better poast side boared with selfless spirit. Still have you considered running Approach of the Second Sun. It could just be a fun add in but I have seen this card steel games. So if you want a different cards to use in control match-ups of Approach of the Second Sun could work.
It could also be put in a different version of As Foretold - Free Stuff Midrange
This deck looks solid and it should be able to fight both aggro and control. Plus only 6 cards in the list rotate with Hour of Devastation.
Also if you wouldn't mind I would love some input on my Abzon of Amonkhet deck list.
I like the opportunity of split cards because "Cast" works for both halves. Sadly, not many of the available cards are exciting. Maybe other options will be good if we change the deck colors from UGW to Uxy or can find a mana scheme that will enable a fourth color.
Of these, Prepare/Fight might be okay, but i don't have a lot of fighting creatures. Though I could have if I change which creatures I run.
I do like Dusk//Dawn a little, and am currently testing 2 Fumigate and 2 Dusk in side. Dusk is situational, while Dawn - I only wish it could bring back the bigger guns like Tracker and Vizier.
Commit seems okay, Memory is expensive but would be great to refuel. (I'd been contemplating cards like Rishkar's Expertise and Seasons Past, but maybe this is more suitable.)
Mouth is mediocre and Feed will hardly do anything. Spring // Mind seems meh.
Selfless Spirit.. seems great with an Avacyn plan or a Dusk/Dawn plan.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG