I think it's certainly an interesting take. I personally dislike the manabase, lack of anticipate and no jace (both of which are putting in so much work for me in my list). The deck looks solid though and probs a good starting point for people.
Just curious, how does everyone feel about the walkers in the current meta? Specifically Liliana, The Last Hope just seems to size up poorly with all the vehicles around. Just wondering if anyone else is struggling as hard as me in certain matchups with walkers. Obviously against something like Jeskai control that has no interaction with a landed walker, she just upticks for the win, but a lot of the games she does next to nothing. My new list essentially uses no walkers, and instead relies on the torrential / glimmer / anticipate card engine.
The list is a little soft to some of the more aggressive decks, but the Kalitas and Tendrils in the SB help out. I think Esper has a shot to be very powerful moving forward, as it has a fairly decent game against aggro, though on the draw against some of the more explosive starts from some of the decks you're still going to lose. But against dredge / combo / and other control decks the esper colors have all the right answer, with unmaking, negate, and transgress capable of dismantling any deck out there. Aether Meltdown is in there for mana fixing (lol) as relying on hub to consistently give all 3 colors is so important. Although with my mana the way it is, I'm tempted to just use evolving wilds so the battle lands have a better chance of coming in untapped, not really sure what the right call is there. Just curious about some thoughts on a walker free list.
I don't run Liliana either (mainly because I don't have any!), and my UB list runs quite well. I do have a single Ob Nixilis and a single Jace in there, but yeah, honestly I've found myself not wanting to cast them and keep mana open for reactive plays. I'm running it this weekend for Game Day, but I could see potential for pulling both of them depending on how they perform, and putting in a Noxious Gearhulk and either another Thing, or mainboard a Flaying Tendrils.
If your list is running a little "soft" to the aggro decks, I might consider running the Kalitas main, as in that list that Airgaps posted a couple up. Also, Essence Extraction seems a must in the side for those matchups. What do you generally target with Unmaking? Could having that in your deck hurt your life against aggro? Also, as mentioned somewhere in the thread, Evolving Wilds is actually not too bad an idea, as that allows us to shuffle in cards that we bottom from Anticipate. Maybe a 2/2 split with Aether Hub? That wouldn't change the number of sources for each colour, and run a single plains as well so you can fetch with Evolving Wilds if needed.
Unmaking is in there to deal with everything / anything. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Scrapheap Scrounger, Aetherworks Marvel just to name a few, but its an instant speed spell that can kill planeswalker, combo artifacts, or graveyard synergistic creatures, all of which are everywhere. Even killing a copter with it is fine by me, as I stop the loot but still take the 3 damage, which is arguably a better trade than something like Immolating Glare, where they get to loot but I take no damage. Blessed alliance, vent, and fumigate are all in there to help lessen the hit from 3 copies of unmaking, which I would much rather have than something like Painful Truths
Kalitas does seem to get sided in vs a lot of different matchups, but I think he belongs in the SB, as control decks are kind of everywhere now too. I should mention I mostly play online, so that's my meta. It's really hard to strike a balance of finding a deck that has a good matchup against Jeskai and Grixis, but also can last long enough against R/G pummeler and R/W humans. I would say the list being soft to aggro is more a symptom of the high curve, as some slow starts on the draw I just get run over bad and I'm dead by turn 4.
I think I'll try the 2/2 split of EW and Hub, as the wilds will give me options to shuffle back bottomed cards like was mentioned, and give the tango lands a better chance of coming in untapped.
I don't run Liliana either (mainly because I don't have any!), and my UB list runs quite well. I do have a single Ob Nixilis and a single Jace in there, but yeah, honestly I've found myself not wanting to cast them and keep mana open for reactive plays. I'm running it this weekend for Game Day, but I could see potential for pulling both of them depending on how they perform, and putting in a Noxious Gearhulk and either another Thing, or mainboard a Flaying Tendrils.
If your list is running a little "soft" to the aggro decks, I might consider running the Kalitas main, as in that list that Airgaps posted a couple up. Also, Essence Extraction seems a must in the side for those matchups. What do you generally target with Unmaking? Could having that in your deck hurt your life against aggro? Also, as mentioned somewhere in the thread, Evolving Wilds is actually not too bad an idea, as that allows us to shuffle in cards that we bottom from Anticipate. Maybe a 2/2 split with Aether Hub? That wouldn't change the number of sources for each colour, and run a single plains as well so you can fetch with Evolving Wilds if needed.
Agreed. Essence Extraction is great. I went up to 3 in the SB, which is good to free up SB slots for the Jeskai matches, which I lost playing the first time because of him drawing way better, but also having more card quality. For what it's worth, I'm going to start running some Torrential Gearhulk, but they're in the mail. My fault for being a foil whore smh...
Interesting that we're having the discussion of Kalitas main board... Shaheen Soorani updated his UB list again on SCG, and is raving about how great it is. He's taking it to Providence, so hopefully we'll see some coverage and some decent results from it. The main change he makes is to bring in a main board Kalitas, dropping Liliana to 2 copies, and he also rejigs the land a bit too. The list on the main page will be updated shortly, but here is the full list for now...
I am a little surprised at the lack of Ceremonious Rejection in the 75 as answers to vehicles and artifacts, and any stray Elddrazi floating around, and he's obviously not as hot on Deadlock Trap as other control mages I've seen.
Fairon, while I think you have a good start there, a true control deck doesn't need or want the spirits. They turn on a lot of opponents' removal spells, and one of the ways that control tries to get card advantage over others is by making them have a lot of "dead" spells in hand (i.e. full of removal but no targets). Also, a lot of 1-ofs and 2-ofs don't really give you the flexibility you want, rather it means you won't hit spells when you need them. As was once told to a friend of mine who had a similar mentalit to building decks - this is standard, not EDH. As an example, let's say you are on the draw in a match-up against a R/B aggro deck, and they land a turn 2 Copter. What are your responses? Two Grasp, which means you need to have two black sources of mana, two Immolating Glare which means they get to loot (and you need at least one white source), or one Dec in Stone which won't get rid of the Copter, only the crew. Rattlechains and Selfless Spirit both die to it, as opposed to playing (for example) four Grasp, which gives you a 1 in 15 chance of having a removal that won't give some benefit to them.
While possibly a little harsh, my biggest suggestion to your deck is decide whether you are playing U/W Spirits/flash, or Esper control. Right now you seem in two minds bout what you want to do, and that's pulling your deck in two directions. Once you've worked that out, then look at some of the other lists that are on the respective threads and try to get some more copies of the spells in your list. I've found it easiest to work through the commons and uncommons first, as asking people at your local store means you get them pretty easily (as people don't want them), and I'm sure there's ways to get the cheaper cards on MTGO as well, if that's your preferred play method.
Hope that's of some help to you, and sorry it's a little negative!
Hi guys, I won game day yesterday with Esper ctrl. I went 7-0-1 overall (inc top 8), the drawing being an ID to make it top 8. The deck felt super good and resilient. I was transgressed 6 times (via GDD) in a game vs BR control and still the deck recovered. I played twice vs. mardu vehicles and won both 2-0. The MVPs of the day were Lili and Kalitas (obv in addition to Gearhulk) in the MD, and the Spell Queller from the SB (I REALLY recommend it). He was coming in practically every game either to complement or to replace the counterspell suite.
Very happy over all. You guys were definitely right going heavier on black to run grasp. The mana base excelled..I could almost always cast t2 grasp t3 counter if needed. Lili was an all star vs Mardu, so I am thinking of going -1 Gearhulk or Descend +1 Lili. Kalitas was just good overall.
In my humble opinion, we would better have Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
When we faced an aggro deck, if the opponent can't get overwelming advantage in T5-6, we can put the pressure on oppnent's shoulder by casting Gideon
I couldn't do Games Day, but lent my deck to a friend. He went 2-2 (and finished 6th with a T4 cut), he beat RW Vehicles and Storm losing to Bant Humans and RG Pummeller. He has some mana issues (mainly flooding and screwing - not colour) with 3 of his game losses coming from that. He loved how the deck felt and moved the mb Dismissal and Descend to the sb for 2 Kalitas due to who was there and what decks he could scout beforehand.
Attended game day 1 using Jeskai Control, won a total of 1 round YAY.. beat RW vehicles.
Attended game day 2 with GB delirum and went 2-2. Brought this up because there is speak of Liliana above.
There must be a different meta in my country.
-Llliana was absolutely subpar.
-There was little to no need for destroying attacking creatures (Immolating/ Alliance).
-4 Glimmer of Genius was WAY too many.
-Negate would have been better than Void Shatter most games.
After doing some testing on a close replica of Shaheen's U/B list I've come to really like it. It feels like everything a control deck should be.
Mana: I'm still on the fence about 2 or 3 colors. I know people on here have said the mana with aether hub and glimmer has worked out really well, and I'll admit that the hub being a reliable source of untapped tri color is huge in getting 3 color decks to work, and for the most part the mana is ok for esper. That being said, there are still games where you get mana screwed. Even being mono colored you will occasionally get mana screwed, and having 3 colors, with spells that have some strict double color requirements, only exacerbates times when you're mana starved, and occasionally will lead to otherwise great hands that are too slow because of not enough sources of a color. U/B has all the essential elements of the deck, but having access to white for cards like Anguished Unmaking, Fumigate, Fragmentize, and shambling vent are very well positioned in the meta. Specifically Liliana and other planeswalkers and some other enchantments and artifacts are hard to deal with once resolved, and the life gain on vent and fumigate are super relevant. I'm just not sure if the 3 colors are worth it for the extra tech, it's a close call as the consistency of 2 colors, especially with anticipate and glimmer, is pretty fun to be able to play.
Kalitas: I don't like having Kalitas MD for game 1. There's too much removal capable of killing him, that would otherwise be dead cards in the opponents hand and I'd like to keep it that way game 1. The main reason I don't like it though, is because there have been many games, where the opponent is opening up with a solid draw, 1 drop into 2 drop into 3 drop, or something similar. I then tap out on turn 4 for Kalitas, hoping to stabilize a game that is starting to run away, only to get him removed and have that all too powerful turn 4 swing for 10, landed gideon, etc.. happen to me and I just lose the game. Tapping out for Kalitas just to get him removed (or bounced, reflector mage is still out there), is just too much of a tempo loss to recover from most games.
Scatter to the Winds: I am loving this over Void Shatter. All things being equal, I kind of prefer having the awaken option over the exile effect of shatter. Couple this with the prevalence of Ceremonious Rejection and scatter starts to pull ahead.
Sweepers: I've found that sweepers are going to be needed in the main deck. The only real option available for U/B is Flaying Tendrils and I'm up to 3 copies of it in there. Just because the card is dead against a lot of different matchups, doesn't mean I automatically lose the game. Where as not having Tendrils against other MU's where it's live usually means I lose the game, so that's why it's main deck. Exiling a scrounger for 3 mana is a good deal, so for that alone I'll keep it MD, not to mention the times when I can go 3 for 1 and stabilize the game with it. There's a ton of 2 toughness or less creatures, so while it's no Radiant Flames, it can usually deal with most of the aggro out there, with my spot removal capable of cleaning up the remaining 3 toughness and greater threats.
Fevered Visions: Given how popular control is ATM, I would heavily expect U/R/x burn to make a comeback with fevered visions. I'd advise everyone to have at least some sort of plan to deal with it. U/B is probably the worst at dealing with it, because if it get's resolved there's nothing in the colors to deal with it.
Well, game day was a disaster... Went 0-2-1 drop, losing to Grixis control and r/w vehicles, drawing with Jeskai control. Grixis loss was largely due to Gonti staying all my responses in both games, and the second game of the Jeskai match went down to him finding his boarded Sphinx before me. Game one of the vehicles match I had plenty of removal, but no card draw came up to refill my hand, and eventually I just ran out of gas. Game two I had no answers and all draw.
Really frustrating to say the least! Looks like Shaheen Soorani had an equally unsuccessful weekend, with only six wins at the GP despite making day two.
Sorry to hear that. My experience was totally opposite (list somewhere above).
How may wincons did you keep against RW aggro? I was making the mistake IMO of keeping very few of them and was eventually running out of gas. For that matchup I highly recommend the spell quellers and Essence extractions. Also I have been playing a single Demon of Dark Schemes MD (instead of the 4th gearhulk)..and wow..he is great vs aggro and also the UW spirits.
Let's see... at least four win-cons kept in, none came up. I had two Kalitas, one Noxious Gearhulk, and one Sphinx (I knew he was running Dec in Stone and other creature removal) post-board.
Nice job on 2nd there Pench. Far better than my showing! I think at least one Tendrils is a good call, and I have one in my list too. I've been mildly interested in a Jace main, and have been running 1/1 Ob/Jace. Do you think two Ob is better? I've also been considering Gonti, probably as a budget replacement for Liliana, given how strong it seemed when played against me. It looks to be quite a good control mirror wrecker, as it basically tutors for whatever we need at the time - guaranteed draw, counter, or steal a win-con...
As for the other thread, I PM'd an admin last week, but no response. My guess is their preferred method is to let the other thread die, and just keep this one (as it has the more general Esper discussions as well) alive.
took 2nd at game day with esper.. however i am switching it up. I am still super shocked esper isn't seeing more play. This was my original 75 that got me second.
deck was super fun to play, however the walkers are just not that great vs super fast decks, and cannot put a fast enough clock on imo. the games i won vs WR i just out played them.
this will be my new list going into GP denver (practicing with for)
land base will probably stay the same/very similar..
queller is great to obv make them stumble a turn while also having a body to fly and attack. also avacyn is mainly just a 4/4 flash game ender. this is more of a flash esper style which i think will be a lot better over all.
Don't know how much of a following this thread has but thought I'd chime in. I was playing Grixis since Kaladesh release and just found that deck to be underwhelming for me. That forced me to scrap it and think of a different route. I knew grasp of darkness was going to be important in the meta and after some discussion with my test group and reading some articles I was led to U/B. Let me tell you, coming from Grixis, this deck feels very powerful right now. The one thing I have missed is man lands. However, that has been a small price to pay for consistent mana and being able to cast grasp reliably.
I took this list to gameday where I only lost one game all day. I didn't make it to providence but I intend to play this deck going forward to any and all PPTQs, IQs etc I can drive to. I'll keep checking back in on this thread from time to time and keep y'all posted on results and changes. I like where this deck is at now and I like it going forward. Thanks for reading and as always constructive criticism is welcome.
Some interesting choices there... What do you bring Contraband Kingpin in against, and how often are you actually getting the second ability to trigger (the scry part)? Or is it more for the blocking and lifelink against aggro? Also, I'm not sure if you saw Shaheen Soorani's posts about going to GP Providence, but he commented that To The Slaughter was terrible in decks that weren't playing a dedicated delirium strategy. Are you finding the same thing? I've been happy with Ruinous Path; although sorcery speed, I've won a couple of games by casting it with Awaken to kill more quickly. Everything else looks about where most of the rest of us are (with the exception that most are running 4/3 Anticipate/Glimmer, rather than the other way round). Keep posting the results, and let's start getting things even better!
Couple of other points for everyone else - I was a big fan of the one-of Sequestered Stash. I had a couple of games where I had it out, dropped a Gearhulk on opponent's turn knowing they had removal, flashed back something useful (like a counter spell), had them kill it, then end of turn put it back on the top of my library, drew it again, and had fresh ammo for the next turn. Also, Evolving Wilds or not? It shuffles back cards bottomed with Anticipate, but playing extra Aether Hubs or Blighteds seems good too...
Nice job on 2nd there Pench. Far better than my showing! I think at least one Tendrils is a good call, and I have one in my list too. I've been mildly interested in a Jace main, and have been running 1/1 Ob/Jace. Do you think two Ob is better? I've also been considering Gonti, probably as a budget replacement for Liliana, given how strong it seemed when played against me. It looks to be quite a good control mirror wrecker, as it basically tutors for whatever we need at the time - guaranteed draw, counter, or steal a win-con...
As for the other thread, I PM'd an admin last week, but no response. My guess is their preferred method is to let the other thread die, and just keep this one (as it has the more general Esper discussions as well) alive.
This is my current list after some changes:
- Ended up with two Flaying Tendrils main deck replacing one Liliana, The Last Hope and one Ob Nixilis Reignited. This is because i feel Flaying Tendrils as a needed answer at least as a one of in the maindeck (especially against Scrapheap Scrounger) and planeswalkers are not that hot in the actual meta against all this aggro decks (except for Liliana, The Last Hope but 3 copies was too much most of the times, might change my mind if W/U flash becomes consistent meta with all their 1 thoughness creatures).
- Moved the maindeck Ceremonious Rejection to the sideboard for the 4th copy of Anticipate, i feel the early turns must be as smooth as possible if we want to have real consistency beating the aggro decks, also with the downfall of the Aetherwork Marvel and Collosus decks from the metagame i think Ceremonious Rejection is not as attractive as it was before as a maindeck option (maybe even remove them from the 75).
- The other free slot in the sideboard ended up beign a Jace, Unraveler of Secrets insetad of the second Ob Nixilis Reignited even though i think the black planeswalker is better, i like having diversity when bringing cards from the sideboard (it could also be Metallurgic Summonings).
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury could be a nice budget replacement of Liliana, The Last Hope against midrange/control decks, but i don't think he covers the roll of Liliana, The Last Hope haves against the aggro matchups, especially because 4 mana is a lot more than 3 mana in fast paced matchups.
took 2nd at game day with esper.. however i am switching it up. I am still super shocked esper isn't seeing more play. This was my original 75 that got me second.
deck was super fun to play, however the walkers are just not that great vs super fast decks, and cannot put a fast enough clock on imo. the games i won vs WR i just out played them.
this will be my new list going into GP denver (practicing with for)
land base will probably stay the same/very similar..
queller is great to obv make them stumble a turn while also having a body to fly and attack. also avacyn is mainly just a 4/4 flash game ender. this is more of a flash esper style which i think will be a lot better over all.
open to all opinions
What do you think about reflector mage and kambal? Also, how many lands are you running?
i wanted to keep my main board as much as a flash deck as possible. reflector mage is good but I really dont want to play anything on my own turn. I am at 25 lands which i think i wanna get to 26 but not 100% sure on what to cut. this deck does not want to miss land drops at all lol.
i wanted to keep my main board as much as a flash deck as possible. reflector mage is good but I really dont want to play anything on my own turn. I am at 25 lands which i think i wanna get to 26 but not 100% sure on what to cut. this deck does not want to miss land drops at all lol.
Mana is a big piece to this deck, as you want as little to enter play tapped as possible. My deck didn't work out all that well (could be the meta I play in, could be the pilot, could be a lot of things) and I'm not sure an all instant speed deck is the way to go
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4 Anticipate
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Aether Meltdown
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Murder
3 Scatter to the Winds
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Fumigate
2 Archangel Avacyn
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Land (26)
4 Aether Hub
2 Choked Estuary
2 Concealed Courtyard
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Prairie Stream
3 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
4 Island
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Lost Legacy
4 Negate
3 Transgress the Mind
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
The list is a little soft to some of the more aggressive decks, but the Kalitas and Tendrils in the SB help out. I think Esper has a shot to be very powerful moving forward, as it has a fairly decent game against aggro, though on the draw against some of the more explosive starts from some of the decks you're still going to lose. But against dredge / combo / and other control decks the esper colors have all the right answer, with unmaking, negate, and transgress capable of dismantling any deck out there. Aether Meltdown is in there for mana fixing (lol) as relying on hub to consistently give all 3 colors is so important. Although with my mana the way it is, I'm tempted to just use evolving wilds so the battle lands have a better chance of coming in untapped, not really sure what the right call is there. Just curious about some thoughts on a walker free list.
If your list is running a little "soft" to the aggro decks, I might consider running the Kalitas main, as in that list that Airgaps posted a couple up. Also, Essence Extraction seems a must in the side for those matchups. What do you generally target with Unmaking? Could having that in your deck hurt your life against aggro? Also, as mentioned somewhere in the thread, Evolving Wilds is actually not too bad an idea, as that allows us to shuffle in cards that we bottom from Anticipate. Maybe a 2/2 split with Aether Hub? That wouldn't change the number of sources for each colour, and run a single plains as well so you can fetch with Evolving Wilds if needed.
Unmaking is in there to deal with everything / anything. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Scrapheap Scrounger, Aetherworks Marvel just to name a few, but its an instant speed spell that can kill planeswalker, combo artifacts, or graveyard synergistic creatures, all of which are everywhere. Even killing a copter with it is fine by me, as I stop the loot but still take the 3 damage, which is arguably a better trade than something like Immolating Glare, where they get to loot but I take no damage. Blessed alliance, vent, and fumigate are all in there to help lessen the hit from 3 copies of unmaking, which I would much rather have than something like Painful Truths
Kalitas does seem to get sided in vs a lot of different matchups, but I think he belongs in the SB, as control decks are kind of everywhere now too. I should mention I mostly play online, so that's my meta. It's really hard to strike a balance of finding a deck that has a good matchup against Jeskai and Grixis, but also can last long enough against R/G pummeler and R/W humans. I would say the list being soft to aggro is more a symptom of the high curve, as some slow starts on the draw I just get run over bad and I'm dead by turn 4.
I think I'll try the 2/2 split of EW and Hub, as the wilds will give me options to shuffle back bottomed cards like was mentioned, and give the tango lands a better chance of coming in untapped.
Agreed. Essence Extraction is great. I went up to 3 in the SB, which is good to free up SB slots for the Jeskai matches, which I lost playing the first time because of him drawing way better, but also having more card quality. For what it's worth, I'm going to start running some Torrential Gearhulk, but they're in the mail. My fault for being a foil whore smh...
3 Aether Hub
2 Blighted Fen
4 Submerged Boneyard
4 Choked Estuary
3 Island
4 Sunken Hollow
6 Swamp
Draw spells (7)
4 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
Counter Magic (5)
1 Summary Dismissal
4 Scatter to the Winds
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
4 Grasp of Darkness
Walkers and win-cons (9)
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Confirm Suspicions
2 Essence Extraction
2 Negate
2 To the Slaughter
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Lost Legacy
I am a little surprised at the lack of Ceremonious Rejection in the 75 as answers to vehicles and artifacts, and any stray Elddrazi floating around, and he's obviously not as hot on Deadlock Trap as other control mages I've seen.
1x Aether Hub
1x Blighted Fen
1x Concealed Courtyard
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Island
3x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
2x Shambling Vent
4x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
1x Westvale Abbey
Sorcery (5)
1x Fumigate
2x Painful Truths
1x Ruinous Path
1x Transgress the Mind
1x Anguished Unmaking
3x Anticipate
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Glimmer of Genius
2x Immolating Glare
2x Negate
1x Void Shatter
Creature (17)
2x Archangel Avacyn
1x Noxious Gearhulk
3x Rattlechains
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Spell Queller
4x Thraben Inspector
Enchantment (2)
2x Stasis Snare
Planeswalker (1)
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Declaration in Stone
1x Fumigate
3x Harsh Scrutiny
1x Linvala, the Preserver
2x Lost Legacy
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
1x To the Slaughter
1x Transgress the Mind
2x Void Shatter
Second version after some tests
4x Aether Hub
1x Blighted Cataract
1x Concealed Courtyard
3x Island
2x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
3x Shambling Vent
4x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
Draw spells (7)
3x Anticipate
4x Glimmer of Genius
Counter Magic (5)
2x Negate
2x Void Shatter
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Fumigate
2x Grasp of Darkness
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Essence Extraction
2x Immolating Glare
1x Transgress the Mind
1x Declaration in Stone
Creatures and Planeswalker(15)
1x Archangel Avacyn
2x Niblis of Frost
4x Rattlechains
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Spell Queller
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Fragmentize
1x Fumigate
3x Harsh Scrutiny
1x Linvala, the Preserver
1x Lost Legacy
1x Ruinous Path
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
1x Transgress the Mind
1x Void Shatter
While possibly a little harsh, my biggest suggestion to your deck is decide whether you are playing U/W Spirits/flash, or Esper control. Right now you seem in two minds bout what you want to do, and that's pulling your deck in two directions. Once you've worked that out, then look at some of the other lists that are on the respective threads and try to get some more copies of the spells in your list. I've found it easiest to work through the commons and uncommons first, as asking people at your local store means you get them pretty easily (as people don't want them), and I'm sure there's ways to get the cheaper cards on MTGO as well, if that's your preferred play method.
Hope that's of some help to you, and sorry it's a little negative!
Here is the list I played:
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
1 Declaration in Stone
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Anguished Unmaking
1 Murder
4 Void Shatter
1 Summary Dismissal
4 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Shambling Vent
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Prairie Stream
3 Swamp
4 Sunken Hollow
3 Island
3 Choked Estuary
3 Concealed Courtyard
3 Aether Hub
3 Negate
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Metallurgic Summonings
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 To the Slaughter
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Essence Extraction
3 Spell Queller
Very happy over all. You guys were definitely right going heavier on black to run grasp. The mana base excelled..I could almost always cast t2 grasp t3 counter if needed. Lili was an all star vs Mardu, so I am thinking of going -1 Gearhulk or Descend +1 Lili. Kalitas was just good overall.
When we faced an aggro deck, if the opponent can't get overwelming advantage in T5-6, we can put the pressure on oppnent's shoulder by casting Gideon
Lost Legacy is also an important card, at least in sideboard. It is very efficient against Emrakul, the Promised End
I may have made a conversion to Esper
Morning people.
Attended game day 1 using Jeskai Control, won a total of 1 round YAY.. beat RW vehicles.
Attended game day 2 with GB delirum and went 2-2. Brought this up because there is speak of Liliana above.
There must be a different meta in my country.
-Llliana was absolutely subpar.
-There was little to no need for destroying attacking creatures (Immolating/ Alliance).
-4 Glimmer of Genius was WAY too many.
-Negate would have been better than Void Shatter most games.
Mana: I'm still on the fence about 2 or 3 colors. I know people on here have said the mana with aether hub and glimmer has worked out really well, and I'll admit that the hub being a reliable source of untapped tri color is huge in getting 3 color decks to work, and for the most part the mana is ok for esper. That being said, there are still games where you get mana screwed. Even being mono colored you will occasionally get mana screwed, and having 3 colors, with spells that have some strict double color requirements, only exacerbates times when you're mana starved, and occasionally will lead to otherwise great hands that are too slow because of not enough sources of a color. U/B has all the essential elements of the deck, but having access to white for cards like Anguished Unmaking, Fumigate, Fragmentize, and shambling vent are very well positioned in the meta. Specifically Liliana and other planeswalkers and some other enchantments and artifacts are hard to deal with once resolved, and the life gain on vent and fumigate are super relevant. I'm just not sure if the 3 colors are worth it for the extra tech, it's a close call as the consistency of 2 colors, especially with anticipate and glimmer, is pretty fun to be able to play.
Kalitas: I don't like having Kalitas MD for game 1. There's too much removal capable of killing him, that would otherwise be dead cards in the opponents hand and I'd like to keep it that way game 1. The main reason I don't like it though, is because there have been many games, where the opponent is opening up with a solid draw, 1 drop into 2 drop into 3 drop, or something similar. I then tap out on turn 4 for Kalitas, hoping to stabilize a game that is starting to run away, only to get him removed and have that all too powerful turn 4 swing for 10, landed gideon, etc.. happen to me and I just lose the game. Tapping out for Kalitas just to get him removed (or bounced, reflector mage is still out there), is just too much of a tempo loss to recover from most games.
Scatter to the Winds: I am loving this over Void Shatter. All things being equal, I kind of prefer having the awaken option over the exile effect of shatter. Couple this with the prevalence of Ceremonious Rejection and scatter starts to pull ahead.
Sweepers: I've found that sweepers are going to be needed in the main deck. The only real option available for U/B is Flaying Tendrils and I'm up to 3 copies of it in there. Just because the card is dead against a lot of different matchups, doesn't mean I automatically lose the game. Where as not having Tendrils against other MU's where it's live usually means I lose the game, so that's why it's main deck. Exiling a scrounger for 3 mana is a good deal, so for that alone I'll keep it MD, not to mention the times when I can go 3 for 1 and stabilize the game with it. There's a ton of 2 toughness or less creatures, so while it's no Radiant Flames, it can usually deal with most of the aggro out there, with my spot removal capable of cleaning up the remaining 3 toughness and greater threats.
Fevered Visions: Given how popular control is ATM, I would heavily expect U/R/x burn to make a comeback with fevered visions. I'd advise everyone to have at least some sort of plan to deal with it. U/B is probably the worst at dealing with it, because if it get's resolved there's nothing in the colors to deal with it.
Here's my list right now:
4 Anticipate
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
3 Flaying Tendrils
4 Scatter to the Winds
4 Glimmer of Genius
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Lands (26)
4 Choked Estuary
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Submerged Boneyard
3 Aether Hub
2 Blighted Fen
6 Swamp
3 Island
2 Essence Extraction
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Transgress the Mind
4 Negate
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Lost Legacy
2 Summary Dismissal
Really frustrating to say the least! Looks like Shaheen Soorani had an equally unsuccessful weekend, with only six wins at the GP despite making day two.
How may wincons did you keep against RW aggro? I was making the mistake IMO of keeping very few of them and was eventually running out of gas. For that matchup I highly recommend the spell quellers and Essence extractions. Also I have been playing a single Demon of Dark Schemes MD (instead of the 4th gearhulk)..and wow..he is great vs aggro and also the UW spirits.
Cheers
Went 5-1 in total:
4-0 to get to the top 4:
- 2-0 Against a W/R Control
- 2-1 Against R/B Aggro
- 2-0 Against Collosus Deck
- 2-1 Against W/R Vehicles
Semifinal:
- 2-0 Against R/B Aggro
Final:
- 0-2 Against W/R Vehicles (Double mana screw, always unlucky BabyRage)
Good Thing: opened a Sol Ring in my 2nd place prize boosters.
- Thinking about moving some Flaying Tendrils to the main board (maybe 2 copies?), not sure what to take out for them though, probably one Liliana, The Last Hope and one Ob Nixilis Reignited.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
3 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
3 Essence Extraction
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
1 Ceremonious Rejection
PD: I started another UBx Control thread, i think they should eventually merge them or something.
As for the other thread, I PM'd an admin last week, but no response. My guess is their preferred method is to let the other thread die, and just keep this one (as it has the more general Esper discussions as well) alive.
2 liliana, the last hope
1 sorin, grim nemesis
1 ob nixilis reignited
4 aticipate
3 glimmer of genius
2 anguished unmaking
2 essence extraction
4 grasp of darkness
2 murder
2 immolating glare
2 void shatter
1 scatter to the winds
1 negate
2 blessed alliance
1 fumigate
1 summary dismissal
4 sunken hallow
2 prairie stream
3 evolving wilds
4 aether hub
3 island
3 swamp
2 plains
deck was super fun to play, however the walkers are just not that great vs super fast decks, and cannot put a fast enough clock on imo. the games i won vs WR i just out played them.
this will be my new list going into GP denver (practicing with for)
3 archangel avacyn
4 spell queller
4 grasp of darkness
4 anticipate
3 glimmer of genius
1 stasis snare
2 murder
2 essence extraction
2 anguished unmaking
2 immolating glare
2 void shatter
1 scatter to the winds
1 negate
1 summary dismissal
land base will probably stay the same/very similar..
queller is great to obv make them stumble a turn while also having a body to fly and attack. also avacyn is mainly just a 4/4 flash game ender. this is more of a flash esper style which i think will be a lot better over all.
open to all opinions
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
So anyway enough introduction.
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Planeswalkers (4)
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixlis Reignited
Instants and Sorceries (26)
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Murder
4 Void Shatter
1 Summary Dismissal
3 Anticipate
2 Essence Extraction
1 Ruinous Path
2 To the Slaughter
3 Transgress the Mind
4 Island
6 Swamp
3 Aether Hub
1 Blighted Cataract
1 Blighted Fen
4 Choked Estuary
3 Submerged Boneyard
4 Sunken Hollow
1 Confiscation Coup
2 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Contraband King
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Dispel
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Harsh Scrutiny
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
I took this list to gameday where I only lost one game all day. I didn't make it to providence but I intend to play this deck going forward to any and all PPTQs, IQs etc I can drive to. I'll keep checking back in on this thread from time to time and keep y'all posted on results and changes. I like where this deck is at now and I like it going forward. Thanks for reading and as always constructive criticism is welcome.
Cheers.
Couple of other points for everyone else - I was a big fan of the one-of Sequestered Stash. I had a couple of games where I had it out, dropped a Gearhulk on opponent's turn knowing they had removal, flashed back something useful (like a counter spell), had them kill it, then end of turn put it back on the top of my library, drew it again, and had fresh ammo for the next turn. Also, Evolving Wilds or not? It shuffles back cards bottomed with Anticipate, but playing extra Aether Hubs or Blighteds seems good too...
This is my current list after some changes:
- Ended up with two Flaying Tendrils main deck replacing one Liliana, The Last Hope and one Ob Nixilis Reignited. This is because i feel Flaying Tendrils as a needed answer at least as a one of in the maindeck (especially against Scrapheap Scrounger) and planeswalkers are not that hot in the actual meta against all this aggro decks (except for Liliana, The Last Hope but 3 copies was too much most of the times, might change my mind if W/U flash becomes consistent meta with all their 1 thoughness creatures).
- Moved the maindeck Ceremonious Rejection to the sideboard for the 4th copy of Anticipate, i feel the early turns must be as smooth as possible if we want to have real consistency beating the aggro decks, also with the downfall of the Aetherwork Marvel and Collosus decks from the metagame i think Ceremonious Rejection is not as attractive as it was before as a maindeck option (maybe even remove them from the 75).
- The other free slot in the sideboard ended up beign a Jace, Unraveler of Secrets insetad of the second Ob Nixilis Reignited even though i think the black planeswalker is better, i like having diversity when bringing cards from the sideboard (it could also be Metallurgic Summonings).
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury could be a nice budget replacement of Liliana, The Last Hope against midrange/control decks, but i don't think he covers the roll of Liliana, The Last Hope haves against the aggro matchups, especially because 4 mana is a lot more than 3 mana in fast paced matchups.
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Murder
3 Ruinous Path
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
4 Anticipate
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
3 Essence Extraction
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
What do you think about reflector mage and kambal? Also, how many lands are you running?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-10-16-esper-flash/
i wanted to keep my main board as much as a flash deck as possible. reflector mage is good but I really dont want to play anything on my own turn. I am at 25 lands which i think i wanna get to 26 but not 100% sure on what to cut. this deck does not want to miss land drops at all lol.
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
I had the same idea and ran this:
4 Spell Queller
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Instants (26)
4 Anticipate
3 Blessed Alliance
4 Negate
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Essence Extraction
2 Engulf the Shore
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Confirm Suspicions
4 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Prairie Stream
4 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Flaying Tendrils
3 Lost Legacy
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Fumigate
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
Mana is a big piece to this deck, as you want as little to enter play tapped as possible. My deck didn't work out all that well (could be the meta I play in, could be the pilot, could be a lot of things) and I'm not sure an all instant speed deck is the way to go
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans