I changed it up slightly from last time. I dropped 1 Blessed Alliance for another To the Slaughter. I also dropped Flaying Tendrils for Essence Extraction. Kefnet is questionable right now. I didn't really know what else to put there. Contraband Kingpin does a ton of work against Ramunap Red.
I'm also considering Hour of Glory for my sideboard as well.
Look pretty solid. I like it. I really liked Kingpin, more than Authority I think, just bc it's a w splash and they also have to invest in a burn spell to kill it.
Any suggestions for my list? Post 1191 (near top of page).
EDIT: Why drop tendrils? I'm looking to get a tendrils back in the main.
Between the matches I've played online and at my LGS, I'm either really lucky against mono-red right now, or I'm so favored after game 1 that I just don't need or want Flaying Tendrils. Other than that, the only decks I know of that go wide are Zombies and UW Monument. Yahenni's Expertise seems to be better against both of those, but I don't see them in the numbers there once were a month or so ago. That's why I leave them in the sideboard. If I were to keep a sweeper in the main deck, I'm thinking it would be Bontu's Last Reckoning for Temur Energy.
EDIT: I'm not a huge fan of Liliana, the Last Hope right now. I know you have mentioned buying back Gearhulks and stuff like that, but I feel like it loses a lot of its luster if isn't killing things or at least protecting itself.
I feel the same way re: mono r. I draw enough b mana and some removal, then I win. I like the option of tendrils though for scroungers and zombies..actually..scarab God... I see what you mean haha. Why bontus over fumigate? Because it's cheaper? I think the mana not untapping is an issue in that matchup.
Big reason I'm playing her is I loved her as a 1of and my meta is..well was last time I could play std, either hyper aggro or control. There was no in between.
Pretty much. I've also seen some aggro-ish variation of Zombies that are a bit more "rawr-smash" too. I just can't afford to be on the draw and have to mulligan an otherwise decent hand because I have 2 Pull from Tomorrow in my hand or other questionable cards. Even when you're not facing off against an aggro deck, how often do you want to see more than 1 Pull in your opening hand?
Basically these reasons. Pull From Tomorrow is still absurdly powerful, but the fast aggro matches just don't leave you time for this kind of spell, and you want faster speed stuff in your opening hand.
I feel the same way re: mono r. I draw enough b mana and some removal, then I win. I like the option of tendrils though for scroungers and zombies..actually..scarab God... I see what you mean haha. Why bontus over fumigate? Because it's cheaper? I think the mana not untapping is an issue in that matchup.
Big reason I'm playing her is I loved her as a 1of and my meta is..well was last time I could play std, either hyper aggro or control. There was no in between.
The mana cost is great and, more importantly, it doesn't lean so heavily on white mana. The drawback on it is real, but I've found that it's a pretty solid card even into the late game. At this point, if Shambling Vent weren't so good for me, I'd go straight UB.
Mixed... I only ran a Sorin once over the weekend, and it never came up in 4 rounds. I had an interesting couple of tournaments - went 2-2 in FNM, beating UR control and RG energy, then losing to two rogue lists (4c mid range/tempo, and Fraying Sanity mill), then went 1-3 in the Showdown, with the only win being the bye. Showdown was largely due to bad variance - mana screw on 3 or 4 games, and only drew two Supreme Wills all day (and had to use them to counter). I'm actually drifting away from Sorin though. The test had 1 Kalitas, 1 Sorin, 1 Bolas, 2 Scarab Gods. I'm thinking of trying Ob Nixilis over Sorin, based on Frank Lepore's comments on his CFB video. I also took Censor out, but they may go back in as a necessary evil, although I may use the list from the link here and replace Censors with 2 more Disallows and an ObNix/Jace. My sideboard is obviously a little different as well.
Sorry you had such bad luck. That always feels bad.
Sorin is in the sideboard for me, and it's purely for control matches. I'm drifting away from Kalitas the way you are with Sorin though. It just seems like a liability more often than not. How would you feel about cutting it altogether?
The only deck I seem to have consistent issues with is RG or Temur Energy. I think I need solid sweepers or more cheap removal. How are you handling that match? It always seems really close for me.
If you do replace Censor with more counter magic, it should probably be a mix of Essence Scatter or Negate depending on your metagame. Trying to jam more 3-CMC counter magic in that slot will usually leave you feeling sad when you get a solid hand even though it doesn't do much until turn 3.
Sorin to the side is definitely a thought, especially if Ob goes main. I think the Kalitas is good for my local store due to the somewhat aggressive decks, plus I don't run any Aetherborn in the side. The list I'm looking at moving to would have 3 Essence Scatter and 2 Negate main, plus one Negate in the side. I think maybe 3 Disallow is right, so could see replacing the Censors with a Disallow, an Ob, and a fourth Grasp (the list only has 3 right now) or even a single main board Doomfall.
I also have one Tendrils and one Bontu's in the side. The Bontu's has been good against the energy decks, particularly when you "let" them drop a couple of hydra, can wipe them away with Bontu's and leave up Essence Scatter mana. The trick is just knowing what to counter vs what to kill. Basically if it's not going to get hexproof, I let it land. Hold up mana for Blossoming Defenses and Hydra, and that's about it creature wise. Seems to work out ok so far...
There's been several 5-0 lists, plus the GP winning deck, so in the next couple of days I'll do an aggregate list. However, it at be that 3/3 God/Hulk may be the way to go... And yes, even to Kpal's chagrin, 4 Censor seems right!
There's been several 5-0 lists, plus the GP winning deck, so in the next couple of days I'll do an aggregate list. However, it at be that 3/3 God/Hulk may be the way to go... And yes, even to Kpal's chagrin, 4 Censor seems right!
LOL. Yea. A whole set later! Like I said before, the format now has aggressive decks and other midrange decks playing spells on curve. It's exactly the kind of format I said would make Censor good. If kpal wants to call that a win, I'll just keep smiling.
I am surprised the winning list had no bounce spells or Hieroglyphic Illumination main deck. I hope he does an article or an interview somewhere to explain some of the choices he made.
Really excited with the turnout! My build is Using Yahenni's expertise instead of flaying tendrils. Playing a lot with the deck to come up with the more favorable spell. It's worth noting as well that it's a nonbo with scarab god and exile effects of Kalitas and tendrils.
So. Where do we go? I think there is two possible routes that we can take. First one is around where the UB lists are now. The list below is based on Gab Nassif's suggested list from his CFB article a week or so ago. Very reactive, lasting until we hit a Scarab God and taking over from there, much like the Robin Dolar GP list. Drowned Catacomb is pretty likely to be an untapped land, so I think we can expand our manabase with running one each of the blue and black deserts (more cycling late game) plus two of the CIPT duals that are still legal thanks to the Tezzeret PW deck in AER. when we add four copies of Aether Hub as well, that gives 19U/21B sources, more than enough for T2 BB (but even that's only needed for the Walk the Plank) and T3 UU.
The second list is based off a UB Aggro-control suggestion from PVDDR on CFB today, but tweaked for a bit more control. Siren Stormtamer, Kitesail Freebooter, and Hostage Taker all get their chance to shine, along with a couple of Ruin Raiders for raid-based draw. Whereas PVDDR suggests the more aggro part of Aggro-control, this list is more controlling. The manabase is more difficult (18u/18b here), but the Opt and Supreme Will help smooth it out, along with draws from the Ruin Raiders (which could go up to 3).
Sideboard-wise, Contraband Kingpin is most likely the go-to for aggro blocking. I'd expect to see Duress be an ever present, Doomfall to answer Hydras and Gods, Gifted Aetherborn as usual. Arguel's Blood Fast and Search for Azcanta seem good for control games (for the more controlling list, anyway), and the artifacts mentioned above also seem to be sensible choices. We'll have to see what the meta starts out as before making sideboard calls.
Hello there. So last time I played magic consistently was 2014. So after a three year sabbatical I figured I would return. I have thinking about a U/B/w Draw Go control using Sun as a Win con. Thoughts?
The mana base is a first pass at this time. I'm a bit iffy on its current layout because i'm trying to support a lot of spells in the 3 mana slot that require ether BB or WW or UU.
Given the resurgence of creature based decks might I offer up a little used uncommon from Kaladesh that I still find myself really enjoying? Harsh Scrutiny hits what Duress cannot with the upside of Scry 1. Duress is a good card and I'm glad it's back, but not being able to hit creatures is a big set back in a format loaded with powerful threats.
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Currently Playing:
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
I feel like every single UB based control deck should be playing The Scarab God somewhere in it's 75. That card is a win con on it's own. The first few weeks will see fairly large number of Carnage Tyrant's in MD's and SB's. Expect this card to come from every single G/x based Midrange/Tribal Deck; From Energy variants to Dinos.
If the meta winds up being Ramunap red and Temur/Dinos week 1 then durdling around with Search for Azcanta is not where you want to be. Blue Gearhulk is a must, and Glimmer of Genius should be the defacto 4cmc card drawing spell.
My focus has been on expanding my range this past standard, but I may be coming back to my control roots. You will need answers to:
Gods (Hazoret, The Scarab God)
Creatures with Hexproof and uncounterable ones at that
Counter wars (Temur packs a whopping 4 Negates in it's SB)
Planeswalkers
and any new brew that may take SCG Dallas by storm (I will be there).
are some cards that will have to step up to being this format's premium removal spells. If I were to run Control at SCG Dallas I'd tailor list to beat Ramunap Red and Temur 1st. Adjust from there.
The Esper manabase looks very solid with the upcoming lands. Would people recommend running Aether Hubs or just more basic lands for more consistent early game check lands to hop in untapped?
For those with SCG Premium, Shaun McLaren's article today deals with control's options for the new Standard. But, whatever you do, don't play his UB list he puts up. 4 Torrential Gearhulk with no other wincons. WTH is he smoking lol?
Anyway, I'm all about Vraska's Contempt and Harsh Scrutiny right now. Thinking about going from Esper to UB, but I don't feel comfortable playing a deck without a real sweeper (I don't know if I count Bontu's Last Reckoning, the no untap is REALLY dangerous from all of my testing).
I have been playing UW Approach, but am about to switch to Esper Control/Approach. Adding black is just very strong right now. Still working on getting the numbers right and the sideboard is just what I am currently testing. Let me know what you think.
I have been playing UW Approach, but am about to switch to Esper Control/Approach. Adding black is just very strong right now. Still working on getting the numbers right and the sideboard is just what I am currently testing. Let me know what you think.
I like it, especially having a win con besides Approach itself. IMHO, I think you want more Duress MD than Harsh Scrutiny, as you should clean up aggro game 1 without much problem. I have never lost a G1 to Approach due to having literally no requirements other than to counter X amount of Approach and watch them scoop or deck.
I like it, especially having a win con besides Approach itself. IMHO, I think you want more Duress MD than Harsh Scrutiny, as you should clean up aggro game 1 without much problem. I have never lost a G1 to Approach due to having literally no requirements other than to counter X amount of Approach and watch them scoop or deck.
Thanks, I always hated going up against Bx Control when I was playing UW Approach. That is one of the main reasons I am moving towards more of a UBw deck now. I will try adding in more Duress. Any other major cards I need to add main or side?
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
Retired BU Faeries RGW Naya Burn BW B/W Tokens
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Look pretty solid. I like it. I really liked Kingpin, more than Authority I think, just bc it's a w splash and they also have to invest in a burn spell to kill it.
Any suggestions for my list? Post 1191 (near top of page).
EDIT: Why drop tendrils? I'm looking to get a tendrils back in the main.
EDIT: I'm not a huge fan of Liliana, the Last Hope right now. I know you have mentioned buying back Gearhulks and stuff like that, but I feel like it loses a lot of its luster if isn't killing things or at least protecting itself.
Big reason I'm playing her is I loved her as a 1of and my meta is..well was last time I could play std, either hyper aggro or control. There was no in between.
Basically these reasons. Pull From Tomorrow is still absurdly powerful, but the fast aggro matches just don't leave you time for this kind of spell, and you want faster speed stuff in your opening hand.
The mana cost is great and, more importantly, it doesn't lean so heavily on white mana. The drawback on it is real, but I've found that it's a pretty solid card even into the late game. At this point, if Shambling Vent weren't so good for me, I'd go straight UB.
How did your sorin and bolas testing go?
Sorin is in the sideboard for me, and it's purely for control matches. I'm drifting away from Kalitas the way you are with Sorin though. It just seems like a liability more often than not. How would you feel about cutting it altogether?
The only deck I seem to have consistent issues with is RG or Temur Energy. I think I need solid sweepers or more cheap removal. How are you handling that match? It always seems really close for me.
If you do replace Censor with more counter magic, it should probably be a mix of Essence Scatter or Negate depending on your metagame. Trying to jam more 3-CMC counter magic in that slot will usually leave you feeling sad when you get a solid hand even though it doesn't do much until turn 3.
I also have one Tendrils and one Bontu's in the side. The Bontu's has been good against the energy decks, particularly when you "let" them drop a couple of hydra, can wipe them away with Bontu's and leave up Essence Scatter mana. The trick is just knowing what to counter vs what to kill. Basically if it's not going to get hexproof, I let it land. Hold up mana for Blossoming Defenses and Hydra, and that's about it creature wise. Seems to work out ok so far...
- Gabriel Nassif shows off his deck from the article linked in post 1192 in a video here.
- A few decks from MTGO leagues and PTQs.
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spell (28)
4 Censor
2 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Negate
4 Supreme Will
1 To the Slaughter
1 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
7 Island
3 Sunken Hollow
9 Swamp
1 Dispel
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Negate
3 Summary Dismissal
1 To the Slaughter
3 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalker (1)
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Spell (27)
3 Censor
2 Disallow
3 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Murder
2 Negate
4 Supreme Will
4 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
5 Island
4 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
1 Dispel
2 Flaying Tendrils
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Kefnet the Mindful
2 Negate
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spell (28)
4 Censor
3 Disallow
3 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
1 Flaying Tendrils
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Negate
1 Never // Return
1 Supreme Will
3 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
6 Island
4 Sunken Hollow
9 Swamp
1 Aether Meltdown
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Contraband Kingpin
2 Dispel
1 Essence Extraction
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Hour of Glory
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Negate
2 Summary Dismissal
1 The Scarab God
2 The Scarab God
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (25)
3 Fatal Push
3 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 Negate
1 Disallow
1 Essence Extraction
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Consign // Oblivion
1 Never // Return
Enchantments (3)
1 Trial of Ambition
2 Metallurgic Summonings
Lands (26)
3 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
5 Island
4 Sunken Hollow
6 Swamp
2 Dispel
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Essence Extraction
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 To the Slaughter
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Never // Return
twoone UB control decks in top 8.EDIT: Mistakes were made. I was watching a different round!
C Long Live Eldrazi C
LOL. Yea. A whole set later! Like I said before, the format now has aggressive decks and other midrange decks playing spells on curve. It's exactly the kind of format I said would make Censor good. If kpal wants to call that a win, I'll just keep smiling.
I am surprised the winning list had no bounce spells or Hieroglyphic Illumination main deck. I hope he does an article or an interview somewhere to explain some of the choices he made.
Let me start this off by quickly posting the cards of interest from Ixalan, then I'll throw out where I'm looking at starting.
Blue
So. Where do we go? I think there is two possible routes that we can take. First one is around where the UB lists are now. The list below is based on Gab Nassif's suggested list from his CFB article a week or so ago. Very reactive, lasting until we hit a Scarab God and taking over from there, much like the Robin Dolar GP list. Drowned Catacomb is pretty likely to be an untapped land, so I think we can expand our manabase with running one each of the blue and black deserts (more cycling late game) plus two of the CIPT duals that are still legal thanks to the Tezzeret PW deck in AER. when we add four copies of Aether Hub as well, that gives 19U/21B sources, more than enough for T2 BB (but even that's only needed for the Walk the Plank) and T3 UU.
1 Desert of the Mindful
1 Desert of the Glorified
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Aether Hub
4 Fetid Pools
2 Submerged Boneyard
4 Island
6 Swamp
1 Hostage Taker
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (28)
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Essence Scatter
3 Disallow
3 Censor
2 Negate
2 Opt
2 Walk the Plank
3 Vraska's Contempt
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Doomfall
7 Island
7 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
3 Submerged Boneyard
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Hostage Taker
2 Ruin Raider
2 The Scarab God
4 Fatal Push
3 Opt
2 Walk the Plank
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Disallow
3 Supreme Will
2 Vraska's Contempt
The mana base is a first pass at this time. I'm a bit iffy on its current layout because i'm trying to support a lot of spells in the 3 mana slot that require ether BB or WW or UU.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Duress
Instants
2 Cast Out
4 Censor
2 Disallow
4 Fatal Push
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Opt
1 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Spell Pierce
2 Supreme Will
2 Search for Azcanta
Plainswalkers
2 Gideon of the Trials
Lands
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Duress
2 Essence Scatter
2 Flex Slot
2 Negate
2 Slash of Talons
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vraska's Contempt
I find the Draw go(d) list that Jon posted to be a very attractive list as well. I'll look into that as well.
Standard:
WBGAbzan TokensBWG
Modern:
UREsper MidrangeUR
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
If the meta winds up being Ramunap red and Temur/Dinos week 1 then durdling around with Search for Azcanta is not where you want to be. Blue Gearhulk is a must, and Glimmer of Genius should be the defacto 4cmc card drawing spell.
My focus has been on expanding my range this past standard, but I may be coming back to my control roots. You will need answers to:
Gods (Hazoret, The Scarab God)
Creatures with Hexproof and uncounterable ones at that
Counter wars (Temur packs a whopping 4 Negates in it's SB)
Planeswalkers
and any new brew that may take SCG Dallas by storm (I will be there).
Hour of Glory
Vraska's Contempt
Grind // Dust
are some cards that will have to step up to being this format's premium removal spells. If I were to run Control at SCG Dallas I'd tailor list to beat Ramunap Red and Temur 1st. Adjust from there.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Anyway, I'm all about Vraska's Contempt and Harsh Scrutiny right now. Thinking about going from Esper to UB, but I don't feel comfortable playing a deck without a real sweeper (I don't know if I count Bontu's Last Reckoning, the no untap is REALLY dangerous from all of my testing).
I have been playing UW Approach, but am about to switch to Esper Control/Approach. Adding black is just very strong right now. Still working on getting the numbers right and the sideboard is just what I am currently testing. Let me know what you think.
3x Approach of the Second Sun
2x The Scarab God
2x Torrential Gearhulk
Draw
2x Glimmer of Genius
2x Opt
Hand Disruption
4x Harsh Scrutiny
1x Duress
Counter
4x Supreme Will
3x Censor
Removal
3x Fatal Push
2x Farm // Market
2x Fumigate
2x Settle the Wreckage
3x Vraska's Contempt
2x Search for Azcanta
Land
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Irrigated Farmland
3x Fetid Pools
2x Field of Ruin
3x Island
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Settle the Wreckage
3x Authority of the Consuls
2x Doomfall
3x Negate
2x Gifted Aetherborn
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
I like it, especially having a win con besides Approach itself. IMHO, I think you want more Duress MD than Harsh Scrutiny, as you should clean up aggro game 1 without much problem. I have never lost a G1 to Approach due to having literally no requirements other than to counter X amount of Approach and watch them scoop or deck.
Thanks, I always hated going up against Bx Control when I was playing UW Approach. That is one of the main reasons I am moving towards more of a UBw deck now. I will try adding in more Duress. Any other major cards I need to add main or side?
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens