I'm actually not planning on it in a Grixis shell, but a UB one. Running two Crypts over Blighted Fen and Westvale Abbey that I have at the moment, it shouldn't change any of my mana source availablility.
As I said, it was one of my usual outside the box weird ideas... Worst case it means you last one turn longer, but that could very well be all that's needed to stabilise...
I'm actually not planning on it in a Grixis shell, but a UB one. Running two Crypts over Blighted Fen and Westvale Abbey that I have at the moment, it shouldn't change any of my mana source availablility.
As I said, it was one of my usual outside the box weird ideas... Worst case it means you last one turn longer, but that could very well be all that's needed to stabilise...
In UB, no Fen means you have no outs to a resolved Ulamog or Sphinx Of The Final Word.
I'm actually not planning on it in a Grixis shell, but a UB one. Running two Crypts over Blighted Fen and Westvale Abbey that I have at the moment, it shouldn't change any of my mana source availablility.
As I said, it was one of my usual outside the box weird ideas... Worst case it means you last one turn longer, but that could very well be all that's needed to stabilise...
In UB, no Fen means you have no outs to a resolved Ulamog or Sphinx Of The Final Word.
R1 vs RDW
I got easily 2-0 and he is a newer player. Didn't draw removal and had too many tap lands.
R2 vs Grixis Control
Interesting build. Only game he got was with a Chandra hot, drew no outs.
R3 vs RB Control
Non blue control dies to blue control. Easy 2-0
Here the computer crashed and couldn't pair us, so we did pairings by hand.
R4 vs RDW
A different player and he was 3-0. Better than the other guy. I 2-0 him easily due to his draws and my draws. We played 1 more for fun and both drew well and I smashed him again.
Due to the computer crashing we did results by hand. I won on match win% by 1 game, we played the same people. Due to the computer crashing though, the owner wanted myself and my r4 opp (both 3-1) to play it out. I lost that 2-1 due to mana issues (No black g1 drawing all the grasps and my g3 keep was risky (swamp, estuary, 3 glimmer, push and slaughter - saw I more land and drew glimmer, kalitas, hulk, etc), and he mulled to 5 and drew like a god).
I got a Scarab God and Stifle Bird from my packs.
Edit: took esper list above, minus baral plus fumigate.
EDIT2: A bit late, but just found this list in Ali Altrazi's latest article
Took this to two Game Days. I did change it up a bit between the two days, maybe 3-4 cards. On Day 1 where ~20 people played, I found that control decks made up nearly half the field at Venue A (at least 7-8 decks). I lost to Temur Energy 2-1 (as usual) and Grixis walkers 2-0. I beat GB constrictor 2-0 and one other decks I have forgotten 2-0. Coupled with a bye, I made it to top 8 where I lost again to the Temur Energy deck 2-0.
Day 2 at Venue B with 10 people, I beat GW Energy 2-0, UW Flash 2-0 and lost to Temur Energy 2-1 (no surprise) and UR Enigma Drake/Cryptic Serpent thingamabob 2-1 (though this game, lost due to mana shortage). The top ranked guy had to leave, so I managed to make it to Top 4, where I lost to Ramanup Red 2-1.
Had fun playing the deck, The Scarab God is heaps of fun. How have other people been doing against Temur Energy?
Just looking at the Aintrazi list - it's interesting in the fact that it's almost mono blue, just "splashing" for Push and Grasp (not counting top-end stuff). Are people finding it better to counter rather than kill cards?
Other thoughts - is four Glimmer a sufficient number of draw spells, when combined with the cycling/Impulse effects? Has anyone else tried running so few? Right now I have 3 Glimmer, 2 Illumination, and a Pull (yes, I'm indecisive), plus three Supreme Wills. By going to four Glimmer only (or Illuminations), that certainly frees up space to go back up to 4 Supreme Will, plus one other card TBC (Confirm Suspicions for both counter AND draw, or maybe stay at three Will, add in two Censor/Essence Scatter - currently at none).
Also, I notice only one sweeper in the main. Again, is that enough? I have three in my list right now (two Reckoning, one Tendrils). Dropping one Reckoning (I want to get the jump on exiling Earthshaker Khenras and the like) again frees up a slot for draw/counter, but obviously takes away the ability to get an X-for-1.
From last weekends Grand Prix, comes this deck from Dan Ward. He took 10th place with it. It was the closest that control got to a top-spot and was surprisingly Blue/White. See bellow:
Is anyone that is playing esper running authority? Why/why not?
I personally think it's decent atm, but I'm running UBw and not sure I can stretch the mana to consistently be able to drop it T1/2.
EDIT: also Approach.
I'm looking at something of a wincon suite between mb and sb of: 1 sorin, 1 jace, 1 ob, 2/3 lili, 3 hulk, 1/2 scarab and maybe 1 approach. With 2/3 kalitas in sb. Too many wincons (I personally don't see hulk as a proper wincon)?
Is anyone that is playing esper running authority? Why/why not?
I personally think it's decent atm, but I'm running UBw and not sure I can stretch the mana to consistently be able to drop it T1/2.
EDIT: also Approach.
I'm looking at something of a wincon suite between mb and sb of: 1 sorin, 1 jace, 1 ob, 2/3 lili, 3 hulk, 1/2 scarab and maybe 1 approach. With 2/3 kalitas in sb. Too many wincons (I personally don't see hulk as a proper wincon)?
I'm running 3 ATM. Been sick vs. Red, really good vs Zombies and good against the other aggro decks.
Also, there is no such thing as too many wincons, as long as your deck isn't stretched too thin, or diluted.
Made a couple of changes that I was talking about in my post a couple above, mainly to the draw spells, at it seemed to work pretty well. I played a 16 person event last night, finished the Swiss at 3-0-1 (ID last round). I beat RG Ramp, and UR twice (one Locust God draw based, one Control splashing for Bolas). I then lost in the first round of finals to Mardu vehicles, after flooding game 1 and punting hard game 3 (it was nearly 11:30pm at this point!).
I was pleased with Confirm Suspicions as another hard counter, but it did sit in my hand several times when I'd have preferred a draw spell, but that's the risk you have to take. Mind you, playing it in the later game, getting 3 cards off it, then flashing it back with a Gearhulk next turn was backbreaking in a couple of matches! I think that it's correct to play fewer sweepers than I had in the main, and Reckoning is surprisingly bad. A single copy of Tendrils main saved me a couple of times, so that is likely to stay in, and Reckoning could probably be cut entirely, probably for a pair of Essence Scatters. The single tap Desert was a throwback to running off-colour Temples that I wanted to try, and was quite happy with the result. Early it's just a tap land, but the ability to cycle it away late was kind of nice, effectively increasing the Fetid Pool count by one. I'm almost tempted to drop an Island for a blue Desert as well...
In the side, Sphinx is still nuts against control, and Overwhelming Denial saved me in the UR matchup, taking out an attempted Bolas (with Negate mana open) before I dropped my Sphinx the next turn. Kefnet bought me some turns in the UR Locust match, bouncing the Radiant FountainsCrypt of the Eternals a couple of times for some extra life gain. I'm thinking about pulling out the Essence Extractions as well. There was an interesting comment made in a CFB article yesterday about a guy running mono-B Zombies. He says "... Essence Extraction [was] a concession to Mono-Red but since Mono-Red sideboards into more of a midrange deck, they’re not even that good." So, what is good? Instant speed Murder-type effects to deal with vehicles, Glorybringers, and the like, Never // Return for opposing Chandras/Gideons, or what about something bigger? Several UR control lists, and my UB list, successfully run four Aether Hubs for the only red Bolas sources. Why can't we use it as a splash for other expensive cards, like Sorin, Grim Nemesis? It's only one less mana than a Bolas, it deals damage, gives card advantage, and gains us life...
@Jon Are you comfortable running 3 Push on an aggro meta? Will the 4th be coming in when/if you drop Bontu's?
Also, is Pummeller a deck in your area? With your proposed changes, how do you deal with a resolved Hydra, without having to 2 for 1 yourself.
@all I'll be putting up my revised list soonish (tomorrow probs) after being able to get a hold of 1 Scarab God, 4 Will and 4 Doomfall.
EDIT: @Triple What's you manabase like? How many W sources are you running? Are you UBw or UBW? I'm trying to fit 3 Authority into my sb, but I'm UBw and don't want to distort the mana horribly.
@Jon Are you comfortable running 3 Push on an aggro meta? Will the 4th be coming in when/if you drop Bontu's?
Also, is Pummeller a deck in your area? With your proposed changes, how do you deal with a resolved Hydra, without having to 2 for 1 yourself.
Fourth Push is certainly a change that's at the top of my list. I don't have too much in the way of Pummeller or Hydra based decks, certainly in the times that I've taken it for a spin. I have two Doomfall which makes them sac, so if I suspect any shenanigans like that I'll hold on to it.
How have you found running 4 expensive (5+ cmc) wincons alongside the Hulks? I'm really tempted to sneak a Sorin in to my list, using the same splash off Aether Hub as Bolas, but with 3 Hulks, 2 Bolas and a Scarab God, I'm wary of having too many high cost finishers. I'm also considering a Nox Hulk in the board for lifegain too...
It was ok with 2 summonings over the ob and Scarab. It's a theory list I'm hoping to test tonight. I think the curve is too high. Could see ob and jace moving to the board but unsure on replacements and what I'd cut.
@Jon Are you comfortable running 3 Push on an aggro meta? Will the 4th be coming in when/if you drop Bontu's?
Also, is Pummeller a deck in your area? With your proposed changes, how do you deal with a resolved Hydra, without having to 2 for 1 yourself.
@all I'll be putting up my revised list soonish (tomorrow probs) after being able to get a hold of 1 Scarab God, 4 Will and 4 Doomfall.
EDIT: @Triple What's you manabase like? How many W sources are you running? Are you UBw or UBW? I'm trying to fit 3 Authority into my sb, but I'm UBw and don't want to distort the mana horribly.
What are thoughts regarding Battle at the Bridge as a sideboard card against Red? Deals with Hazoret nicely, gains us life...
I can see where you're coming from, but we do have 4 grasp and the 4cmc anti god exile (bontus reckoning?). I personally feel ub has an ok matchup. Only times I've lost to red is when I don't draw removal or have no black mana (granted, small sample size my end - like 5 matches, most to g3). This was without Authority (1/4 lifelink blocker instead - can't remember his name..)
Chaos, what's your list looking like?
It's also looking like I have to do a major rebuild too...my amonkhet cards tracking is finally getting updated and they are like 1-2 days away.
It's fairly basic but seems to do alright. I would really like to change one Supreme Will for Commit // Memory or Consign // Oblivion. Largely though, The Scarab God is a boss.
I'm still playing around with my finishers. Sorin as a life-gain tool is far too tempting, but Bolas has been doing great things for me. So, let's see your opinions. What is a better option (not counting 3 Gearhulks)?
I'm still playing around with my finishers. Sorin as a life-gain tool is far too tempting, but Bolas has been doing great things for me. So, let's see your opinions. What is a better option (not counting 3 Gearhulks)?
For the longest time, the slot I currently have Liliana in was occupied by Sorin, Grim Nemesis. I still think I like Sorin more than Liliana but five spells at CMC 6 seems like it isn't ideal for consistency. I may go back Sorin anyway. I'm still in testing mode. I honestly feel like Nicol-Bolas is a trap card though.
As I said, it was one of my usual outside the box weird ideas... Worst case it means you last one turn longer, but that could very well be all that's needed to stabilise...
In UB, no Fen means you have no outs to a resolved Ulamog or Sphinx Of The Final Word.
There is always To the Slaughter, and then there is now Hour of Glory for indestructible stuff.
For sure! Doomfall has been amazing in almost anything playing black spells. I've loved it in GB Energy and tap-out Esper control.
R1 vs RDW
I got easily 2-0 and he is a newer player. Didn't draw removal and had too many tap lands.
R2 vs Grixis Control
Interesting build. Only game he got was with a Chandra hot, drew no outs.
R3 vs RB Control
Non blue control dies to blue control. Easy 2-0
Here the computer crashed and couldn't pair us, so we did pairings by hand.
R4 vs RDW
A different player and he was 3-0. Better than the other guy. I 2-0 him easily due to his draws and my draws. We played 1 more for fun and both drew well and I smashed him again.
Due to the computer crashing we did results by hand. I won on match win% by 1 game, we played the same people. Due to the computer crashing though, the owner wanted myself and my r4 opp (both 3-1) to play it out. I lost that 2-1 due to mana issues (No black g1 drawing all the grasps and my g3 keep was risky (swamp, estuary, 3 glimmer, push and slaughter - saw I more land and drew glimmer, kalitas, hulk, etc), and he mulled to 5 and drew like a god).
I got a Scarab God and Stifle Bird from my packs.
Edit: took esper list above, minus baral plus fumigate.
EDIT2: A bit late, but just found this list in Ali Altrazi's latest article
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 The Scarab God
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Instants (26)
2 Negate
3 Censor
3 Disallow
3 Essence Scatter
3 Grasp of Darkness
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Supreme Will
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Lands (26)
5 Swamp
6 Island
3 Fetid Pools
4 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
4 Sunken Hollow
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Fathom Feeder
3 Flaying Tendrils
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Summary Dismissal
U/B Control — Hour of Devastation Standard| Huanchengjin, 11th place Online PTQ 7/29/2017
Day 2 at Venue B with 10 people, I beat GW Energy 2-0, UW Flash 2-0 and lost to Temur Energy 2-1 (no surprise) and UR Enigma Drake/Cryptic Serpent thingamabob 2-1 (though this game, lost due to mana shortage). The top ranked guy had to leave, so I managed to make it to Top 4, where I lost to Ramanup Red 2-1.
Had fun playing the deck, The Scarab God is heaps of fun. How have other people been doing against Temur Energy?
1 Blighted Fen
2 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
7 Island
2 Submerged Boneyard
4 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
1 Westvale Abbey
Instants (23)
1 Commit // Memory
3 Disallow
1 Essence Scatter
3 Fatal Push
3 Grasp of Darkness
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Negate
3 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Supreme Will
1 Void Shatter
1 Confirm Suspicions
2 Never // Return
2 Yahenni's Expertise
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Creatures (4)
1 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Dispel
1 Summary Dismissal
1 Essence Scatter
2 To The Slaughter
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Negate
2 Doomfall
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Other thoughts - is four Glimmer a sufficient number of draw spells, when combined with the cycling/Impulse effects? Has anyone else tried running so few? Right now I have 3 Glimmer, 2 Illumination, and a Pull (yes, I'm indecisive), plus three Supreme Wills. By going to four Glimmer only (or Illuminations), that certainly frees up space to go back up to 4 Supreme Will, plus one other card TBC (Confirm Suspicions for both counter AND draw, or maybe stay at three Will, add in two Censor/Essence Scatter - currently at none).
Also, I notice only one sweeper in the main. Again, is that enough? I have three in my list right now (two Reckoning, one Tendrils). Dropping one Reckoning (I want to get the jump on exiling Earthshaker Khenras and the like) again frees up a slot for draw/counter, but obviously takes away the ability to get an X-for-1.
(Not my deck!)
3 Approach of the Second Sun
4 Fumigate
Instant
4 Blessed Alliance
4 Censor
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Supreme Will
2 Unsummon
4 Aether Meltdown
3 Cast Out
Land
2 Blighted Cataract
4 Irrigated Farmland
9 Island
6 Plains
4 Prairie Stream
4 Authority of the Consuls
1 Descend upon the Sinful
2 Hour of Revelation
2 Linvala, the Preserver
2 Negate
2 Regal Caracal
2 Torrential Gearhulk
I personally think it's decent atm, but I'm running UBw and not sure I can stretch the mana to consistently be able to drop it T1/2.
EDIT: also Approach.
I'm looking at something of a wincon suite between mb and sb of: 1 sorin, 1 jace, 1 ob, 2/3 lili, 3 hulk, 1/2 scarab and maybe 1 approach. With 2/3 kalitas in sb. Too many wincons (I personally don't see hulk as a proper wincon)?
I'm running 3 ATM. Been sick vs. Red, really good vs Zombies and good against the other aggro decks.
Also, there is no such thing as too many wincons, as long as your deck isn't stretched too thin, or diluted.
1 Desert of the Glorified
2 Crypt of the Eternals
3 Sunken Hollow
4 Aether Hub
4 Choked Estuary
4 Fetid Pools
4 Island
4 Swamp
Draw spells (5)
1 Confirm Suspicions
1 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Glimmer of Genius
3 Disallow
4 Supreme Will
Removal (17)
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Hour of Glory
2 Never // Return
3 Fatal Push
2 Murder
4 Grasp of Darkness
Win-cons (6)
1 The Scarab God
2 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Crook of Condemnation
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Overwhelming Denial
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Doomfall
2 Essence Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Negate
I was pleased with Confirm Suspicions as another hard counter, but it did sit in my hand several times when I'd have preferred a draw spell, but that's the risk you have to take. Mind you, playing it in the later game, getting 3 cards off it, then flashing it back with a Gearhulk next turn was backbreaking in a couple of matches! I think that it's correct to play fewer sweepers than I had in the main, and Reckoning is surprisingly bad. A single copy of Tendrils main saved me a couple of times, so that is likely to stay in, and Reckoning could probably be cut entirely, probably for a pair of Essence Scatters. The single tap Desert was a throwback to running off-colour Temples that I wanted to try, and was quite happy with the result. Early it's just a tap land, but the ability to cycle it away late was kind of nice, effectively increasing the Fetid Pool count by one. I'm almost tempted to drop an Island for a blue Desert as well...
In the side, Sphinx is still nuts against control, and Overwhelming Denial saved me in the UR matchup, taking out an attempted Bolas (with Negate mana open) before I dropped my Sphinx the next turn. Kefnet bought me some turns in the UR Locust match, bouncing the
Radiant FountainsCrypt of the Eternals a couple of times for some extra life gain. I'm thinking about pulling out the Essence Extractions as well. There was an interesting comment made in a CFB article yesterday about a guy running mono-B Zombies. He says "... Essence Extraction [was] a concession to Mono-Red but since Mono-Red sideboards into more of a midrange deck, they’re not even that good." So, what is good? Instant speed Murder-type effects to deal with vehicles, Glorybringers, and the like, Never // Return for opposing Chandras/Gideons, or what about something bigger? Several UR control lists, and my UB list, successfully run four Aether Hubs for the only red Bolas sources. Why can't we use it as a splash for other expensive cards, like Sorin, Grim Nemesis? It's only one less mana than a Bolas, it deals damage, gives card advantage, and gains us life...Also, is Pummeller a deck in your area? With your proposed changes, how do you deal with a resolved Hydra, without having to 2 for 1 yourself.
@all I'll be putting up my revised list soonish (tomorrow probs) after being able to get a hold of 1 Scarab God, 4 Will and 4 Doomfall.
EDIT: @Triple What's you manabase like? How many W sources are you running? Are you UBw or UBW? I'm trying to fit 3 Authority into my sb, but I'm UBw and don't want to distort the mana horribly.
Fourth Push is certainly a change that's at the top of my list. I don't have too much in the way of Pummeller or Hydra based decks, certainly in the times that I've taken it for a spin. I have two Doomfall which makes them sac, so if I suspect any shenanigans like that I'll hold on to it.
EDIT: Here is my updated list. A bit heavy on 3 drops I think though.
4 fatal push
4 grasp of darkness
1 murder
3 disallow
1 anguished unmaking
4 supreme will
4 glimmer of genius
1 confirm suspicions
Sorceries (3)
1 flaying tendrils
2 yahenni's expertise
Wincons (6 + hulks)
2 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, unraveler of secrets
1 ob nixilis reignited
1 the Scarab God
3 torrential gearhulk
1 sorin, grim nemesis
3 swamp
3 island
2 plains
3 shambling vent
3 prairie stream
4 choked estuary
4 sunken hollow
2 submerged boneyard
2 aether hub
3 Authority of the consuls
1 blessed alliance
2 negate
1 anguished unmaking
2 downfall
1 flaying tendrils
1 kefnet the mindful
1 murder
2 kalitas, traitor of they
1 fumigate
Thoughts?
Uhhh...off the top of my head...
1 Plains
3 Island
5 Swamp
4 Hollow
4 Stream
2 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
2 Shambling Vent
2 Concealed Coutyard
2 Evolving Wilds
Sorcery-speed seems painful but it maybe it's worth testing.
I can see where you're coming from, but we do have 4 grasp and the 4cmc anti god exile (bontus reckoning?). I personally feel ub has an ok matchup. Only times I've lost to red is when I don't draw removal or have no black mana (granted, small sample size my end - like 5 matches, most to g3). This was without Authority (1/4 lifelink blocker instead - can't remember his name..)
Chaos, what's your list looking like?
It's also looking like I have to do a major rebuild too...my amonkhet cards tracking is finally getting updated and they are like 1-2 days away.
EDIT: hour of glory, not bontus something.
Fairly similar to yours. I've been rocking and rolling with 2 The Scarab God in the main deck though and far fewer planeswalkers. Largely just Liliana, the Last Hope in the main deck with Ob Nixilis Reignited and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets in the sideboard. I'll post a list later after I get back from the sealed event.
2 The Scarab God
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Anguished Unmaking
1 Murder
4 Grasp of Darkness
4 Fatal Push
3 Disallow
3 Supreme Will
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
It's fairly basic but seems to do alright. I would really like to change one Supreme Will for Commit // Memory or Consign // Oblivion. Largely though, The Scarab God is a boss.
For the longest time, the slot I currently have Liliana in was occupied by Sorin, Grim Nemesis. I still think I like Sorin more than Liliana but five spells at CMC 6 seems like it isn't ideal for consistency. I may go back Sorin anyway. I'm still in testing mode. I honestly feel like Nicol-Bolas is a trap card though.