I first brewed something like this when BFZ came out, but it was worse than better control options with Khans block. Now with the rotation, I wonder if this is feasible.
It abuses a few things:
-Ulamog's Nullifier in conjunction with the many exile removal and counterspells available to play flying Mystic Snake
- Spell Queller into Nullifier, processing the card so it's gone for good
- Manlands, awaken and Planar Outburst for 1-sided wrath
The deck's philosophy is to remove things before they hit (counters, discard, Lost Legacy) instead of after they hit, so that opponent doesn't still get ETB or LTB triggers to profit on the exchange.
Card Choices
Spell Queller, Nullifier, Gearhulk and the awaken cards generate 2-for-1s, removing the opponent's threat while playing your own at the same time. This allows you to stay ahead of the usual 1-for-1 reactive trades. Between those incremental advantages and the card selection from Anticipate and Glimmer, you should bury the opponent in card quality and card advantage by the lategame. I used to run Ruinous Path as part of that plan, but there's no need to with instant-speed Anguished Unmaking exiling an even wider range of things.
One card I used to run is Ob Nixilis Reignited. It's an amazing card advantage engine and win condition as the game drags out, but there might be enough options with Flash that you don't ever need to tap out. If the current win conditions are not enough, maybe 2 copies of Archangel Avacyn or 1 Elder Deep-Fiend might do it.
Step 1: Decide whether to post in a somewhat similar thread in Established, necro an old thread or start a new thread.
Unplayable cards? Yes. So don't post this in Esper/UB Control in Established.
Standard forum rules say:
If you want to post a new thread in this forum, please check and make sure there isn't already a thread on the same topic.
and
You are more than welcome to necro old threads in this forum.
Cool. Necroing it is then. Good thing I'm not a mod who should have archived the original thread a month ago.
Here is my starting point. Supportive feedback welcomed. You don't need to tell me that this isn't as good as G/B Delirium or UW Flash. I know. Please tell me how to make it better!
I really want this to be possible, mostly because i LOVE the displacer. My initial thoughts and issues I've had are"
All your creatures are 3 drops, along with most of your removal spells. Look to add some removal in the 2 slot, blessed alliance is great for the flexibility.
4 color mana bases are rough. If you can fit a Sea Gate Wreckage it can help if you go dry. I would drop 1 evolving wilds for it.
Torrential Gearhulk is a beast, and you have enough instants to make it worth it. plus, flickering a gearhulk just makes me happy.
The deck feels very reactionary and has look to fall behind in life. Having some additional lifelink might be good to have in G1. Adding 2 Kalitas in the main might help with that. It also adds to the exile theme.
Another great card that works with the exile theme is Thought-knot seer. you cant abuse the processing aspect, but you can abuse the flickering aspect of it, and keep adding cards to their exile for you to use later.
it looks like fun if it can all click, but it looks like a lot of moving parts. If you can drop a color I think it would help out a lot. That or make the black a very small splash, just for the nullifier.
Thanks for the feedback! You hit the nail on the head. This is a labor of love for my totemic Eldrazi. If I need to be competitive, I can just play Delirium. If I want to have fun and a winning record at FNM, I have my Naya and 4C Humans. If we can get this to be an alternative that has a chance to win an FNM level event, I will be overjoyed!
You have identified many of the issues I see:
mana base
exilers and processors together and balanced
mana curve is really a mana spike
do we just fold to aggro
Is Displacer just too slow and vulnerable
there are a lot of dead cards against control and combo, can we put together a post-board game that will work there
Still, there is some power here, we have options, and I am 1-0 in practice matches. I may add some thoughts on addressing these issues later.
The biggest issue I have with Displacer is where is the colorless mana gonna come from. Is 4 sources enough? And, can you find adequate space for colorless mana in a 3-color mana base since the pain lands are gone? It's probably not impossible, but I can definitely see it taking some effort. It won't help turn 1-3 mana fixing, but could the deck colors be slanted in such a way that Warped Landscape would be useful.
I made an aggro version of this deck that used ingest creatures to get early exiles so that my processors had plenty to work with when they started coming in on curve. It didn't have displacer in it but I theorized a midrange version of the deck could be built that did have displacer. In most cases Displacer + 2 Quellers + 1 Nullifier is a lock. I never looked into it, but I'm wondering if this idea works better as midrange than draw-go. Having good midrange beaters like Thought knot Seer and Drowner could give the deck a much stronger punch while maintaining good control of the board.
Like I said, I haven't sat down and put anything together, but I am interested in the discussion as a fellow processor player.
My list above has 9 colorless sources. Getting it up to 11 or 12 would be better, but seems possible. 4 Aether Hubs, 4 Evolving Wilds and a Wastes nearly gets us there.
I think Esper is a given. Transgress, Strangler, Unmaking and Nullifier force B. Queller, Nullifier, and Spell Shrivel induce U. White is needed for Queller, Unmaking and Warden. I think the question is what, if any, double colors you want to support. I find WW (Stasis Snare, Quarantine Field) and BB (Kalitas, Liliana) worth trying. Trying for fewer double colors makes it easier to have more colorless sources.
I look forward to seeing your ideas and refining these concepts. My tests so far have been promising. This deck has lots of power.
I first brewed something like this when BFZ came out, but it was worse than better control options with Khans block. Now with the rotation, I wonder if this is feasible.
It abuses a few things:
-Ulamog's Nullifier in conjunction with the many exile removal and counterspells available to play flying Mystic Snake
- Spell Queller into Nullifier, processing the card so it's gone for good
- Manlands, awaken and Planar Outburst for 1-sided wrath
4 Anticipate
2 Horribly Awry
2 Revolutionary Rebuff
2 Declaration in Stone
4 Void Shatter
3 Scatter to the Winds
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Glimmer of Genius
3 Planar Outburst
//Creatures: 8
3 Spell Queller
3 Ulamog's Nullifier
2 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Shambling Vent
4 Prairie Stream
4 Sunken Hollow
2 Concealed Courtyard
6 Island
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Aether Hub
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Harsh Scrutiny
3 Trangress the Mind
2 Negate
2 Lost Legacy
1 Fumigate
1 Anguished Unmaking
The deck's philosophy is to remove things before they hit (counters, discard, Lost Legacy) instead of after they hit, so that opponent doesn't still get ETB or LTB triggers to profit on the exchange.
Card Choices
Spell Queller, Nullifier, Gearhulk and the awaken cards generate 2-for-1s, removing the opponent's threat while playing your own at the same time. This allows you to stay ahead of the usual 1-for-1 reactive trades. Between those incremental advantages and the card selection from Anticipate and Glimmer, you should bury the opponent in card quality and card advantage by the lategame. I used to run Ruinous Path as part of that plan, but there's no need to with instant-speed Anguished Unmaking exiling an even wider range of things.
One card I used to run is Ob Nixilis Reignited. It's an amazing card advantage engine and win condition as the game drags out, but there might be enough options with Flash that you don't ever need to tap out. If the current win conditions are not enough, maybe 2 copies of Archangel Avacyn or 1 Elder Deep-Fiend might do it.
Unplayable cards? Yes. So don't post this in Esper/UB Control in Established.
Standard forum rules say:
and
Cool. Necroing it is then. Good thing I'm not a mod who should have archived the original thread a month ago.
Here is my starting point. Supportive feedback welcomed. You don't need to tell me that this isn't as good as G/B Delirium or UW Flash. I know. Please tell me how to make it better!
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fairgrounds Warden
4 Spell Queller
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Ulamog's Nullifier
Spells
2 Horribly Awry
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Complete Disregard
4 Spell Shrivel
2 Stasis Snare
1 Glimmer of Genius
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
4 Aether Hub
3 Concealed Courtyard
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Island
3 Plains
2 Prairie Stream
2 Shambling Vent
2 Sunken Hollow
3 Swamp
1 Wastes
1 Dispel
1 Fragmentize
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Horribly Awry
1 Harsh Scrutiny
1 Negate
1 Quarantine Field
1 Complete Disregard
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Wasteland Strangler
1 Glimmer of Genius
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
1 Torrential Gearhulk
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
All your creatures are 3 drops, along with most of your removal spells. Look to add some removal in the 2 slot, blessed alliance is great for the flexibility.
4 color mana bases are rough. If you can fit a Sea Gate Wreckage it can help if you go dry. I would drop 1 evolving wilds for it.
Torrential Gearhulk is a beast, and you have enough instants to make it worth it. plus, flickering a gearhulk just makes me happy.
The deck feels very reactionary and has look to fall behind in life. Having some additional lifelink might be good to have in G1. Adding 2 Kalitas in the main might help with that. It also adds to the exile theme.
Another great card that works with the exile theme is Thought-knot seer. you cant abuse the processing aspect, but you can abuse the flickering aspect of it, and keep adding cards to their exile for you to use later.
it looks like fun if it can all click, but it looks like a lot of moving parts. If you can drop a color I think it would help out a lot. That or make the black a very small splash, just for the nullifier.
You have identified many of the issues I see:
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I made an aggro version of this deck that used ingest creatures to get early exiles so that my processors had plenty to work with when they started coming in on curve. It didn't have displacer in it but I theorized a midrange version of the deck could be built that did have displacer. In most cases Displacer + 2 Quellers + 1 Nullifier is a lock. I never looked into it, but I'm wondering if this idea works better as midrange than draw-go. Having good midrange beaters like Thought knot Seer and Drowner could give the deck a much stronger punch while maintaining good control of the board.
Like I said, I haven't sat down and put anything together, but I am interested in the discussion as a fellow processor player.
I think Esper is a given. Transgress, Strangler, Unmaking and Nullifier force B. Queller, Nullifier, and Spell Shrivel induce U. White is needed for Queller, Unmaking and Warden. I think the question is what, if any, double colors you want to support. I find WW (Stasis Snare, Quarantine Field) and BB (Kalitas, Liliana) worth trying. Trying for fewer double colors makes it easier to have more colorless sources.
I look forward to seeing your ideas and refining these concepts. My tests so far have been promising. This deck has lots of power.
Edit: Here is another take on Esper Processor featured on GatheringMagic.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.