I'm not a huge deck creator and I'm relatively newer to the game but I had my eyes on a couple of decks that played just Planeswalkers because I thought it was sick. I've taken a lot of those decks in to consideration and formed it around the new standard. I've been having a surprisingly good record against my friends with a deck I built mainly for fun. It has surprisingly good consistency and can a lot of the times delay even aggro decks pretty well. After all that, here it is.
This isn't as much of a Primer as it is a discussion about the type of deck. I would like all opinions on it. I've gotten quite a few games in of it and feel like this is the best set up but it can definitely use more work and testing.
How does this do against aggressive decks? It seems like there's not a whole lot going on turns 1-3, and even when you start dropping walkers on 4+, catching up could be difficult. And that mana .. so many taplands. How's that been working? I'm also really leery about running so many multiples of planeswalker types. I used to run 3x Nissa Voice and 2x Nissa Seer, and the negative synergy came up often enough where it made certain lines of play really awkward turn 7+.
I've been testing a 5c version, base Naya, splashing for Dovin, Tamiyo, and Sorin. I'm utilizing Energy to make the mana work. Right now it look something like this:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I really like this Superfriends concept with all the walker-friendly cards in the format.
I think this deck wants something like 3 Radiant Flames + 2 Fumigate maindeck to stop early aggro onslaughts, with more removal SB. I wouldn't run so many Oath of Chandra and Oath of Liliana as those are just 1-for-1 removal and they are not going to be enough to stop aggressive decks from steamrolling you.
4 Oath of Nissa seems really strong. You could also have Cultivator's Caravan as an easy turn 3 play, mana-fixing, and lategame attacker (crew with tokens or manland).
Let's analyze the different walkers.
3cc
-Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. Costs little, but what does it do? 0/1 plant doesn't do enough defense for you. +1/+1 counters don't help, since you are not aggro. I think she just doesn't do enough for your gameplan
-Liliana, the Last Hope. Her +1 seems useful for killing things and reducing early damage. The -2 is completely dead. So she's just a -2/-1 engine. Not bad. Not amazing. Maybe the best one at 3cc.
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Attacks. Makes chump blockers. Since there are no Garruks making 3/3 beasts, these free 2/2 ally tokens actually seem pretty good.
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Amazing card in general. Better in an aggro deck. The +1s basically do nothing the turn you cast her (2 damage). On subsequent turns, the mana ramp is useful if you have good plays in hand and the extra draw is good if you don't have good plays, but it's not as abusable as in aggressive mono red. Can kill mid-sized creatures.
- Dovin Baan. Holds off an attacker. Draws cards. Seems good.
- Arlinn Kord. Makes a chump blocker and flips immediately. Then Bolts something and flips immediately. The other abilities seem irrelevant. Don't like it. It's main value is making Wolves, and you can't even do that every turn.
- Tamiyo, Field Researcher. Either stops 2 attackers or draws you cards when they attack, at least replacing whatever they kill. Decent. Awkward mana cost.
- Jace, Unraveler of Secrets. Draws cards. Bounces stuff. Scry is nice, but overall seems worse than Ob Nixilis.
6cc
- Sorin, Grim Nemesis. Draws cards. Kills stuff and gains life. Seems good. 6 mana though.
- Chandra, Flamecaller. +1 attacks. 0 cycles your hand. Both seem better in an aggressive deck. Neither does anything to protect your board. -X is useful, but Radiant Flames does almost the same thing at half the mana. Not worth it.
Conclusions
Overall, one Chandra is bad and one Nissa is bad, so there's no reason to run both and risk the anti-synergy.
Green and White are essential. Green gives mana-fixing, white gives Fumigate and other versatile removal (e.g. Declaration in Stone), and Gideon and Nissa provide your best blockers and attackers.
Black gives you hard removal and card draw from both Sorin and Ob Nixilis.
Red can also kill stuff and dig into gas with Nahiri and Chandra. Red offers Radiant Flames.
Blue seems weaker than it usually is for Superfriends. Jace seems like a weaker Ob Nixilis. Kiora and Saheeli Rai do nothing. Dovin Ban and Tamiyo are alright, maybe worth splashing, but they just stall attackers without removing anything or creating tokens. Because the red and black walkers can both draw cards AND kill stuff, I think they have more value than the blue ones, who just draw cards and stall stuff.
Because I'd rather run Dovin Ban and Tamiyo over Liliana, I'm choosing blue for now. Part the Waterveil seems amazing with walkers to abuse the extra turn. But if the mana is weak, then I'd cut blue first.
I thought the fifth color was just overall not worth the splash. Because a lot of the times are you only using Tamiyo's -2 and Dovin's -1. Which are good, don't get me wrong, but I feel like there are better walkers in the slot. The 2-3 PW's seems to be a pretty good range for me, It's pretty difficult to get 2/3rd's of the same PW's in almost 1/10th of the deck. I've had a couple of issues with the 4 of Nissa and 5 of Chandra though and I'm probably going to bring Torch down to 2 and Voice of Zendikar down to 1. Probably add another Liliana, which helps against aggro, along with the 3 of Gideon. I'm wanting to add in 2 more Aether Hub and take out two of my fast lands, because this deck is on the slower side and they will come in tapped a decent amount. But I believe the Oath of Chandra, Oath of Liliana, Radiant Flames early helps slow them down greatly. Enough to make your turn 4 Gideon/Nahiri/Chandra very protected, and those 3 can all protect themselves. I think it helps me out a lot against the midrange/aggro combo.
I really like the in-depth analysis. I think blue is just not worth the splash. Dovin and Tamiyo are just that, alright in this deck. Part the Waterveil is nice and I agree a really good play, but I still don't think it warrants the blue splash. Gideon's tokens get used a lot to block in this deck so I think the crew for the carvan isn't worth it as much as I would want it to be. I would add it if Oath of Liliana was in here but it doesn't look like it really has the space. I agree with the addition of more board clear, could definitely rotate out a Chandra, Flamecaller. Also, I think Fragmentize is just better than Natural State isn't it? Natural State is instant I guess though. But Fragmentize hits a lot more things. Here is my new list with all of your suggestions.
Don't underestimate the power of Nissa Voice's plants for speed-bumping purposes. She's a key component of my current Standard build, which focuses on synergy with Gideon, Arlinn, Chandra Flamecaller, and Needle Spires to generate easy-mode wins. It's a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Arlinn is terrible on her own on an empty board, but after clearing the way with a Radiant Flames, an unchecked Arlinn (yes, her other abilities are highly relevant!) and Nissa are capable of winning games very quickly.
I chose the build I did, because (1) I had a hard time limiting myself to just three colors, and (2) I required the mana dorks to make it work. So, Radiant Flames and the like, I couldn't justify. I need my dorks to help cast spells. My current build is kinda scatter-brained, but that kinda suits me. If the meta starts looking like aggro/rush decks are a Thing, I'd probably sub R-Flames in for the mana dorks, and probably just go back to Naya.
I'm not sure how I feel about the mana dork car. 3 mana is a lot to spend on a thing that doesn't do anything right away. Even Nissa Voice's plant tokens can chump block. But tapping out for it on turn 3 feels miserable.
I find that Tamiyo is either the all-star of the game, or a bad 4-mana Fog. She really depends on having some support. Hence Sylvan Advocate (a rock-solid 2-drop regardless).
I don't know what to make of Nissa Force. I'll still play 1-2 of her, because she seems pretty good, but I don't know how good her land-animating ability is (I'm a little nervous about getting my lands killed, and just ramping with them feels terrible), and I don't know how often her -3 is even live, let alone useful (maybe for bringing back dead lands?).
In goldfishing, Chandra Torch seems like an all-star. The card I wanna drop on turn 4 (or 3) every game. She seems to do everything I want her to do -- kill stuff, ramp, and keep the gas flowing. If/when I cut back on colors, it seems like a 4th Chandra could easily take the place of Dovin or Tamiyo.
I dunno .. I think it's all academic anyway until I can get some live games in against real players playing real decks.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Don't underestimate the power of Nissa Voice's plants for speed-bumping purposes.
Is the 0/1 Plant a better speed-bump than -2/-1 from Liliana? I'm wondering which to run.
an unchecked Arlinn (yes, her other abilities are highly relevant!) and Nissa are capable of winning games very quickly.
I'm sure that has worked in your build, but isn't that true of most walkers? In most iterations of Superfriends over the years, an unchecked 2-3 planeswalkers take over the game. That's the point of the deck. But if the card is only good if you're already winning (unchecked, other walkers out), is it better than other options? That's the question.
I'm not sure how I feel about the mana dork car. 3 mana is a lot to spend on a thing that doesn't do anything right away. Even Nissa Voice's plant tokens can chump block. But tapping out for it on turn 3 feels miserable.
Is turn 3 that critical? Maybe this is because you're not running so many Radiant Flames and other sweepers to clean up the board, so it's more important that you keep playing walkers and/or blockers to keep pace. Turn 3 mana rock lets you curve into a turn 4 5cc walker or Fumigate, which can be very relevant in the creatureless builds. But maybe it's still too slow.
I don't know what to make of Nissa Force. I'll still play 1-2 of her, because she seems pretty good, but I don't know how good her land-animating ability is (I'm a little nervous about getting my lands killed, and just ramping with them feels terrible), and I don't know how often her -3 is even live, let alone useful (maybe for bringing back dead lands?).
Bringing back dead planeswalkers is not useful? You can just -X another walker to 0 and not worry about it because you can get it back to your hand, recast it that turn, and use another ability. Or you can recover something that was killed by creatures earlier.
Risking a land can be dangerous, but compared to most formats, this one lacks walkers that make good blockers. No 1/1 lifelink tokens or 3/3 beasts or hordes of 1/1 soldiers. The best option is Gideon's 2/2 Ally tokens. But what then? Nissa's 0/1 Plants? Maybe the solution is just to use Oath of Liliana instead of having a walker make its own tokens.
First event of the new season is in the books. The specific deck I ended up running was weird .. I ended up with only 58 cards maindeck, and two of my sideboard cards were from Dragons. So I played the last two rounds with an 11-card sideboard. :/ So it looked kinda like this:
Mana is surprisingly not terrible. Between Aether Hub, Servant, Oath, and Attune, I was rarely unable to cast my spells when I wanted to. Sometimes I ran out of wingdings, or some multicolored 'friend sat in my hand until I was able to find an Oath or E-Wilds or whatever. But for the most part, colors weren't an issue. Flood/screw happened at about the rate you'd expect via normal variance.
That said, I'm cutting blue. I don't think Tamiyo or Dovin add much to the deck that others can't do reasonably well. I'll add some more black sources of mana and add an Obbert, an additional Nahiri, and maybe an additional Nissa or maybe something else.
Anyway, matches:
Rd. 1: vs. G/B Delirium. I'm not sure he actually had Emrakul, but if so, I never saw her. This was a classic case of being able to 1-for-1 all of his early threats, and then eventually I had more planeswalkers than he had answers. Easy win. 1-0 / 2-0.
Rd. 2: vs. Temurge. I feel like this is a bad matchup. We're both on kind of a similar plan .. early game durdling, mid-/late-game explosion. But my Chandras were easily outclassed by his spaghetti monsters. I managed to stall pretty well game one with nahiri and chump blocking with Sylvan Advocates, but the second Emrakul was too much. 1-1 / 2-2.
Rd. 3: vs. U/R Thermo. He needed to draw more counters than he did. I won topdeck wars easily. 2-1 / 4-2.
Rd. 4: vs. Mono-U Wingdings. I used wingdings to cast spells, he used them to power up his dynamo thingies. Eventually he ran out of wingdings, but I didn't run out of friends. Then he had a million Engulf the Shores, flashed back by Gearhulks, but that only delayed the inevitable. If I hadn't whiffed so much on Chandra, Sorin, or Deploy, it would have been much less close than it was. 3-1 / 6-2.
Also, I apparently don't know what Chandra actually does. I forgot about the "2 damage to each opponent" rider completely the first two rounds, and then didn't consider that as a viable line of play the next two rounds most of the time. And, when the ability resolves, you have to cast the card right away... not like Pyromaster, where you have until end of turn to decide. Silly. But, good to know moving forward.
So I have some flex slots I'm not sure what to do with. I don't know how many Attunes I should run. I feel like 3 is both too many and not enough. It's a dangerous balancing act, between not having enough wingdings, and having too many .. and between not having enough lands, to having too many. And I feel like I need a wingding outlet. That's what Architect is for (who is an outlet as well as a producer). I feel like this could be something else, but I don't know what. Maybe Aetherworks Marvel? Probably not Dynavolt, because I don't have a ton of instants/sorceries.
I also feel like I need a big dumb idiot. Like Atarka. I don't think I can hit delirium consistently enough for Em. Green-Hulk seems "meh" unless I already have a dork or two out. Shriekmaw-Hulk seems pretty solid, but 3BB could be difficult. Browbeat-Hulk seems ... not what I want to do. And Arrogance-Hulk seems awkward when the rest of the deck depends on having multiple planeswalkers out to win. Maybe Greenwarden belongs in the maindeck? But I'd also like something that affects the board immediately, not just a value beast. I dunno ... Magic is hard.
I didn't run into any Chopper decks, but I'm prepared to run more instant-speed removal just in case. Probably dusting off my Immolating Glares. Fragmentize is pretty solid too (also hits wingding thingies and Fevered Visions).
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Frag is a must, Visions, Chopper, Aetherworks, Cruisers, Q field, just hits so much right now.
Glares are good for killing the attackers, kind of like blessed alliance better. often they attack early with just copter, the life gain can be important and sac gets around hexproof. The board should be clear for the most part so single creatures attacking should be the norm.
I love Deploy the Gatewatch and think it's a really fun card, but the deck seems virtually impossible to build. You need 24-26 lands, 3-4 Deploy, 4 Oath of Nissa and 20+ planeswalkers to make Deploy work properly. That leaves you with 6 or so free slots, which is nowhere near enough.
For those posting Deploy lists with 14-16 walkers in - seriously, those numbers are laughable. You're just going to miss on your Deploys all the time. Here's Karsten's number crunch (TL;DR - don't run fewer than 19, ideally you want 22) http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/magic-math-deploy-the-gatewatch/
very true on the numbers, how many people missed on CoCo with 26 creatures...it happens.
Kind of feel that the main focus needs to be Abzan with a slight splash of Red.
Nahiri ult grabs a gear hulk which is draw 3 cause with the CMC of PW they don't wanna risk 8-15 damage. It's not a win but should give you something useful with her. The exile part is pretty sweet too. Or snag the noxious and kill something, gain some life, and swing in 5 points of dmg.
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Ob Nixilis, Reignited
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Spells (14)
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Oath of Chandra
2 Oath of Liliana
3 Deploy the Gatewatch
2 Radiant Flames
3 Inspiring Vantage
2 Blooming Marsh
3 Shambling Vent
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Needle Spires
2 Canopy Vista
2 Cinder Glade
2 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Harsh Scrutiny
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Oath of Liliana
3 Sylvan Advocate
1 Oath of Chandra
2 Fumigate
3 Oath of Gideon
This isn't as much of a Primer as it is a discussion about the type of deck. I would like all opinions on it. I've gotten quite a few games in of it and feel like this is the best set up but it can definitely use more work and testing.
I've been testing a 5c version, base Naya, splashing for Dovin, Tamiyo, and Sorin. I'm utilizing Energy to make the mana work. Right now it look something like this:
2 Canopy Vista
2 Cinder Glade
1 Evolving Wilds
5 Forest
1 Island
2 Mountain
2 Needle Spires
2 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
1 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Oath of Chandra
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Sylvan Advocate
1 Architect of the Untamed
2 Arlinn Kord
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Dovin Baan
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I think this deck wants something like 3 Radiant Flames + 2 Fumigate maindeck to stop early aggro onslaughts, with more removal SB. I wouldn't run so many Oath of Chandra and Oath of Liliana as those are just 1-for-1 removal and they are not going to be enough to stop aggressive decks from steamrolling you.
4 Oath of Nissa seems really strong. You could also have Cultivator's Caravan as an easy turn 3 play, mana-fixing, and lategame attacker (crew with tokens or manland).
Let's analyze the different walkers.
3cc
-Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. Costs little, but what does it do? 0/1 plant doesn't do enough defense for you. +1/+1 counters don't help, since you are not aggro. I think she just doesn't do enough for your gameplan
-Liliana, the Last Hope. Her +1 seems useful for killing things and reducing early damage. The -2 is completely dead. So she's just a -2/-1 engine. Not bad. Not amazing. Maybe the best one at 3cc.
-Saheeli Rai. Does nothing in this deck.
4cc
- Nahiri, the Harbinger. Kills stuff. Digs. Only 4 mana. Seems awesome.
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Attacks. Makes chump blockers. Since there are no Garruks making 3/3 beasts, these free 2/2 ally tokens actually seem pretty good.
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Amazing card in general. Better in an aggro deck. The +1s basically do nothing the turn you cast her (2 damage). On subsequent turns, the mana ramp is useful if you have good plays in hand and the extra draw is good if you don't have good plays, but it's not as abusable as in aggressive mono red. Can kill mid-sized creatures.
- Dovin Baan. Holds off an attacker. Draws cards. Seems good.
- Arlinn Kord. Makes a chump blocker and flips immediately. Then Bolts something and flips immediately. The other abilities seem irrelevant. Don't like it. It's main value is making Wolves, and you can't even do that every turn.
- Tamiyo, Field Researcher. Either stops 2 attackers or draws you cards when they attack, at least replacing whatever they kill. Decent. Awkward mana cost.
- Kiora, Master of Depths. Seems bad without creatures.
5cc
- Nissa, Vital Force. 5/5 attacker or blocker. Recurs planeswalkers. Definitely the better Nissa.
- Ob Nixilis Reignited. Draws cards. Kills stuff. Seems really good.
- Jace, Unraveler of Secrets. Draws cards. Bounces stuff. Scry is nice, but overall seems worse than Ob Nixilis.
6cc
- Sorin, Grim Nemesis. Draws cards. Kills stuff and gains life. Seems good. 6 mana though.
- Chandra, Flamecaller. +1 attacks. 0 cycles your hand. Both seem better in an aggressive deck. Neither does anything to protect your board. -X is useful, but Radiant Flames does almost the same thing at half the mana. Not worth it.
Conclusions
Overall, one Chandra is bad and one Nissa is bad, so there's no reason to run both and risk the anti-synergy.
Green and White are essential. Green gives mana-fixing, white gives Fumigate and other versatile removal (e.g. Declaration in Stone), and Gideon and Nissa provide your best blockers and attackers.
Black gives you hard removal and card draw from both Sorin and Ob Nixilis.
Red can also kill stuff and dig into gas with Nahiri and Chandra. Red offers Radiant Flames.
Blue seems weaker than it usually is for Superfriends. Jace seems like a weaker Ob Nixilis. Kiora and Saheeli Rai do nothing. Dovin Ban and Tamiyo are alright, maybe worth splashing, but they just stall attackers without removing anything or creating tokens. Because the red and black walkers can both draw cards AND kill stuff, I think they have more value than the blue ones, who just draw cards and stall stuff.
Because I'd rather run Dovin Ban and Tamiyo over Liliana, I'm choosing blue for now. Part the Waterveil seems amazing with walkers to abuse the extra turn. But if the mana is weak, then I'd cut blue first.
3 Attune with Aether
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Cultivator's Caravan
//Superfriends: 14
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Dovin Baan
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
//Removal: 7
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Radiant Flames
2 Fumigate
2 Part the Waterveil
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
//Lands: 26
4 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Canopy Vista
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Cinder Glade
2 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Fumigate
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Trangress the Mind
2 Collective Brutality
3 Natural State
3 Filigree Familiar
2 Needle Spires
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
4 Aether Hub
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Canopy Vista
2 Cinder Glade
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Inspiring Vantage
1 Swamp
2 Shambling Vent
Spells (7)
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Deploy the Gatewatch
3 Radiant Flames
3 Oath of Chandra
2 Fumigate
2 Oath of Liliana
Planeswalkers (16)
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Fragmentize
2 Harsh Scrutiny
3 Oath of Gideon
2 Declaration in Stone
1 Filigree Familiar
3 Sylvan Advocate
2 Transgress the Mind
I chose the build I did, because (1) I had a hard time limiting myself to just three colors, and (2) I required the mana dorks to make it work. So, Radiant Flames and the like, I couldn't justify. I need my dorks to help cast spells. My current build is kinda scatter-brained, but that kinda suits me. If the meta starts looking like aggro/rush decks are a Thing, I'd probably sub R-Flames in for the mana dorks, and probably just go back to Naya.
I'm not sure how I feel about the mana dork car. 3 mana is a lot to spend on a thing that doesn't do anything right away. Even Nissa Voice's plant tokens can chump block. But tapping out for it on turn 3 feels miserable.
I find that Tamiyo is either the all-star of the game, or a bad 4-mana Fog. She really depends on having some support. Hence Sylvan Advocate (a rock-solid 2-drop regardless).
I don't know what to make of Nissa Force. I'll still play 1-2 of her, because she seems pretty good, but I don't know how good her land-animating ability is (I'm a little nervous about getting my lands killed, and just ramping with them feels terrible), and I don't know how often her -3 is even live, let alone useful (maybe for bringing back dead lands?).
In goldfishing, Chandra Torch seems like an all-star. The card I wanna drop on turn 4 (or 3) every game. She seems to do everything I want her to do -- kill stuff, ramp, and keep the gas flowing. If/when I cut back on colors, it seems like a 4th Chandra could easily take the place of Dovin or Tamiyo.
I dunno .. I think it's all academic anyway until I can get some live games in against real players playing real decks.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Is the 0/1 Plant a better speed-bump than -2/-1 from Liliana? I'm wondering which to run.
I'm sure that has worked in your build, but isn't that true of most walkers? In most iterations of Superfriends over the years, an unchecked 2-3 planeswalkers take over the game. That's the point of the deck. But if the card is only good if you're already winning (unchecked, other walkers out), is it better than other options? That's the question.
Is turn 3 that critical? Maybe this is because you're not running so many Radiant Flames and other sweepers to clean up the board, so it's more important that you keep playing walkers and/or blockers to keep pace. Turn 3 mana rock lets you curve into a turn 4 5cc walker or Fumigate, which can be very relevant in the creatureless builds. But maybe it's still too slow.
Bringing back dead planeswalkers is not useful? You can just -X another walker to 0 and not worry about it because you can get it back to your hand, recast it that turn, and use another ability. Or you can recover something that was killed by creatures earlier.
Risking a land can be dangerous, but compared to most formats, this one lacks walkers that make good blockers. No 1/1 lifelink tokens or 3/3 beasts or hordes of 1/1 soldiers. The best option is Gideon's 2/2 Ally tokens. But what then? Nissa's 0/1 Plants? Maybe the solution is just to use Oath of Liliana instead of having a walker make its own tokens.
1 Evolving Wilds
5 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Needle Spires
2 Cinder Glade
2 Canopy Vista
4 Aether Hub
1 Prairie Stream
1 Shambling Vent
Creatures:
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Sylvan Advocate
1 Architect of the Untabmed
3 Attune with Aether
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Oath of Chandra
4 Harnessed Lightning
Friends:
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Dovin Baan
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Arlinn Kord
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Radiant Flames
1 Call the Gatewatch
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Liliana
2 Fragmentize
1 Appetite for the Unnatural
Mana is surprisingly not terrible. Between Aether Hub, Servant, Oath, and Attune, I was rarely unable to cast my spells when I wanted to. Sometimes I ran out of wingdings, or some multicolored 'friend sat in my hand until I was able to find an Oath or E-Wilds or whatever. But for the most part, colors weren't an issue. Flood/screw happened at about the rate you'd expect via normal variance.
That said, I'm cutting blue. I don't think Tamiyo or Dovin add much to the deck that others can't do reasonably well. I'll add some more black sources of mana and add an Obbert, an additional Nahiri, and maybe an additional Nissa or maybe something else.
Anyway, matches:
Rd. 1: vs. G/B Delirium. I'm not sure he actually had Emrakul, but if so, I never saw her. This was a classic case of being able to 1-for-1 all of his early threats, and then eventually I had more planeswalkers than he had answers. Easy win. 1-0 / 2-0.
Rd. 2: vs. Temurge. I feel like this is a bad matchup. We're both on kind of a similar plan .. early game durdling, mid-/late-game explosion. But my Chandras were easily outclassed by his spaghetti monsters. I managed to stall pretty well game one with nahiri and chump blocking with Sylvan Advocates, but the second Emrakul was too much. 1-1 / 2-2.
Rd. 3: vs. U/R Thermo. He needed to draw more counters than he did. I won topdeck wars easily. 2-1 / 4-2.
Rd. 4: vs. Mono-U Wingdings. I used wingdings to cast spells, he used them to power up his dynamo thingies. Eventually he ran out of wingdings, but I didn't run out of friends. Then he had a million Engulf the Shores, flashed back by Gearhulks, but that only delayed the inevitable. If I hadn't whiffed so much on Chandra, Sorin, or Deploy, it would have been much less close than it was. 3-1 / 6-2.
Also, I apparently don't know what Chandra actually does. I forgot about the "2 damage to each opponent" rider completely the first two rounds, and then didn't consider that as a viable line of play the next two rounds most of the time. And, when the ability resolves, you have to cast the card right away... not like Pyromaster, where you have until end of turn to decide. Silly. But, good to know moving forward.
So I have some flex slots I'm not sure what to do with. I don't know how many Attunes I should run. I feel like 3 is both too many and not enough. It's a dangerous balancing act, between not having enough wingdings, and having too many .. and between not having enough lands, to having too many. And I feel like I need a wingding outlet. That's what Architect is for (who is an outlet as well as a producer). I feel like this could be something else, but I don't know what. Maybe Aetherworks Marvel? Probably not Dynavolt, because I don't have a ton of instants/sorceries.
I also feel like I need a big dumb idiot. Like Atarka. I don't think I can hit delirium consistently enough for Em. Green-Hulk seems "meh" unless I already have a dork or two out. Shriekmaw-Hulk seems pretty solid, but 3BB could be difficult. Browbeat-Hulk seems ... not what I want to do. And Arrogance-Hulk seems awkward when the rest of the deck depends on having multiple planeswalkers out to win. Maybe Greenwarden belongs in the maindeck? But I'd also like something that affects the board immediately, not just a value beast. I dunno ... Magic is hard.
I didn't run into any Chopper decks, but I'm prepared to run more instant-speed removal just in case. Probably dusting off my Immolating Glares. Fragmentize is pretty solid too (also hits wingding thingies and Fevered Visions).
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Glares are good for killing the attackers, kind of like blessed alliance better. often they attack early with just copter, the life gain can be important and sac gets around hexproof. The board should be clear for the most part so single creatures attacking should be the norm.
very true on the numbers, how many people missed on CoCo with 26 creatures...it happens.
Kind of feel that the main focus needs to be Abzan with a slight splash of Red.
2 Deploy the Gatewatch
3 Radiant Flames
2 Fumigate
3 Oath of Liliana
1 Combustible Gearhulk
1 Noxious Gearhulk
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Nahiri ult grabs a gear hulk which is draw 3 cause with the CMC of PW they don't wanna risk 8-15 damage. It's not a win but should give you something useful with her. The exile part is pretty sweet too. Or snag the noxious and kill something, gain some life, and swing in 5 points of dmg.
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Catacomb Sifter
Planeswalkers:
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Spells:
2 Oath of Liliana
2 Oath of Nissa
2 Oath of Gideon
2 Shambling Vent
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Canopy Vista
2 Westvale Abbey
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Immolating Glare
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Blessed Alliance
I don't know the exact number of cards in it but I do know what was in the mainboard since I was taking notes on the cards as he played the event.